Austrian Airlines Boeing 777s Getting More Seats

Austrian was among the first airlines to densify their 777 economy class cabins and go 10 across, around 2013-2014. Even though the airline is not profitable (it has a great franchise and pretty good service, notably compared to its parent), but the long haul fleet is aging. Is there a plan to replace the 777 and 767 fleet?

Believe it was Gary Leff from VFtW who told me about 7-10y ago on his blog that I was crazy to think Premium Economy was going to become the old recliner business class in regards to number of seats and would begin to take away from lie flat J as F would go away as well.

Maybe the Premium Economy seats are selling better because the Business Class product is weak. I hope the Austrian public and other potential passengers will speak with their wallets and spend elsewhere to nip this trend of densifying cabins in the bud.

Likely insufficient J cabin demand - how much business travel is to/through Vienna? Have to wager a lot of their traffic is driven by tourism - people paying out of their own pockets are going to opt for Prem Exon.

@Tipsy- I do a lot of travel in Business Class to the EU and these cabins have more tourists than business travelers.

In my opinion, business class has gone too luxurious on most airlines and priced itself out of most non corporate personal leisure budgets. I liked business class with the big old armchair seats and slightly better food a decade ago, I do not need fancy beds, doors and Michelin over elaborated food. I am premium economy now where once I was happy to pay extra for business class, but when it is often 3 or 4 times the price of long haul premium economy, and service levels have still not recovered to pre Covid with many carriers and routes.

Specifically on Austrian or just in general? Because we're specifically talking about Austrian and generalized "I do a lot of traveling so I know things" DYKWIA bullshit posturing means absolutely nothing. Do you also have access to each passenger's life story such that you KNOW they're tourists? Do you have access to Austrian's manifests to know fare buckets of all the passengers? Just shut up.

Gary is being Gary. Full of it most of the time but a very good drama queen.
He sold his soul to clicks and ads. He writes everything that drives clicks and income, aka. a good blogger.

The 777 has over the years gone from one of my favorite aircraft to least desirable unless you can snag a PE or business seat. Y has become too dense, cramped, and a miserable experience.

DCAWABN, do you have sand in your vagina?

Because you sound like you have sand in your vagina.

Gary is constantly advocating for more international long-haul first class because it's supposedly going to be a moneymaker, when every airline in the world is either removing it entirely (Korean, Asiana, Malaysian Airlines, Etihad), reducing the number of seats (Singapore, BA, Emirates) or reducing the number of planes that it's on (Qatar). That's the thing about bloggers, they're talking about it from a blogger point of view (hence the many complaints about seats not giving a great window view), not from business / luxury leisure passengers' point of view (the customer segments for J and F that the airline is targeting, since those guys pay cash not saver award redemptions) or the airlines point of view (they need to make money, and generally more premium service doesn't earn enough of a revenue premium to justify it)

@tipsy - Austrian has great connectivity to Eastern Europe, and if I'm traveling there from North America or Asia, which is normally where I'm coming from, I'd much prefer to connect through VIE after flying on Austrian than, say, WAW or KRK on LOT Polish, or even BA, AF, or KL (given the length of inter-European flights to EE from LHR, CDG, or AMS). Swiss is another great option to Eastern Europe...I prefer them and Austrian over Lufthansa.

I so agree and am right there with you. I do not need the doors. I want a comfortable well padded seat and leg room/leg rest. Tasty meals thoughtfully presented and warm service. J Class is just through the roof for this guy (retired guy)

It looks to me like they're moving PE to the left of door 2, and everything aft of it will be economy. (Note where the wing is marked on the two seatmaps.

The only two markets that Austrian has true need for J at current levels is on EWR and NRT with the 777. BKK, LAX, and ORD are primarily leisure. Even on EWR and NRT the need is minimal. In many ways the 777 is not ideal for OS and they would be much better with a smaller wide body to eventually upgrade the 767 and eliminate the 777 all together. In fact, there were rumors that the 777 would be scrapped at the start of Covid. This is nothing more than trading the reality that they will forgo any cheap leisure or redemptions on NRT and EWR so as to allow for the leisure 777's (like BKK) to have a more sustainable number of seats.

I give them credit for making moves towards waiting for new aircraft eventually. It's not easy running an airline in a smaller market like Austria and finding the sweet spot. They have a great team and I am quite sure they know what they are doing on this.

You still think Business class is about the seat. It’s not. It’s about the bed. Yes, the bed is why people pay good money for it. We do need a bed. It’s 2022.

JFK to VIE was $2700 RT in business pre Covid. Same fare as Lufthansa to Germany but with better seats and better food.

Everyone has known for years that most people in business outside of trips to Asia are tourists who use miles, upgrade certificates, status, or just pay for business when it’s on sale or at the airport if a deal is available. I wish airlines would be honest that very few people in business are on business.

OS's 777s are pretty old too, having inherited them Lauda. OS used to be on par with Swissair but LH has starved them of resources and has delayed fleet renewal. A Dreamliner would seemingly be a perfect fit for them.

And VIE while not nearly as bad a FRA has to be my least favorite airport in CEE after BUD.

It is not John.

Maybe it is about a bed to small people. I do not pay to lay in a coffin with a door and foot crypt to complete the full underground coffin experience, it is all about width of seat and legroom (I am an ex hockey player).

Mostly based in Vienna (VIE) and flying 100+k miles a year I essentially stopped flying Austrian long haul when they were one of the first to put 10 seats a row in Economy - from 3-3-3 to 3-4-3 - 15 years ago with painful low seat pitch, too.

As a point of comparison, United's current long-haul 777-200 configuration features 50 seats in business, while Austrian is now going down from 40 to 32? Curious to see whether/how they'll continue to price themselves out of actually selling business on the Asian routes where there is ample competition.

That densifying their 777 happened way earlier than 2013-2014: latest 2007. It cost them tens of thousands of €/$ of business of mine which went to TK and UA mostly.

B777 3-4-3 layout was on AA for awhile (had 2-5-2 but then densified it and changed it to 3-4-3). UAL did it in 2017 I believe. That layout is absolutely terrible