A few days ago, we saw the tragic crash of an Air India Dreamliner, as the plane struggled to gain altitude after takeoff. As of now, there are a lot more questions than answers, and it’s too soon to know what caused this. However, contextually we’re starting to get more clues as to what may…
Continue reading: Air India Boeing 787 Ram Air Turbine Deployed Before Crash: A Major Clue
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Since it's that time of the year again, I want to wish you, Ford, and your dad a Happy Father's Day. Thank you for sharing your family moments with us. I still remember your dad's first surprise birthday trip on an Emirates A380 a decade or so ago I think and even him getting a picture at the bar wearing the famous Emirates garb!
Hearing the RAT in the video vs hearing the engines is quite eerie. It seems they only shut down the airport for a few hours, were they able to quickly assess that fuel contamination was not an issue? If it wasn't a bird strike, nor a fuel quality issue, what could cause a dual engine failure given all the redundant systems onboard? The only thing I can think of that was somewhat similar was the BA flight from China which had frozen fuel clogging to flow of fuel and they crash landed at LHR (obviously not an issue in 40 degree heat). This is such a baffling incident.
Yup we all read the news Ben. Any pilots worst nightmare is likely working for AIR INDIA.
I hear no difference in sounds. And are you saying that the AA flight landing lost power and causing the device to deploy?
@ Mike O. -- You're very kind, thank you! And happy father's day to all the other dads! Have another fun trip with my dad coming up soon.
What would I have to gain from sucking up especially to a blogger on the internet?! I don't look at it as sucking up. This is just my nature. I've been on this blog fore more than a decade, I always enjoy his content, including the stories he shares about his family.
If you're a father yourself, Happy Father's Day!
Old news. Juan Browne (Blancolirio) was discussing this two days ago, Steeve yesterday afternoon, etc.
Something that most people don’t talk about is the position of the landing gear.
Yes it was down, but look at the angle of the gear just before the crash.
On a normal configuration the Dreamliner’s gear is tilting up (back wheels of the main landing gear touch the ground first). Only when the pilot selects gear up the gear’s wheels tilt down before being retracted. In the video from the roof top you can clearly see the wheels beeing parallel to the ground while the aircraft is pitched up. That means that either the pilot selected gear up and nothing happened but the tilting of the wheels or a complete hydraulic failure and the motor keeping the wheels to tilt up failed.
That simply confirms even further (and before we knew about the RAT) that this is a power issue
After the 2018 Lion Air crash, some US pilots were quick to question the Indonesian crew's skills, hinting a US crew would've avoided it. A hint of arrogance? But this was pre-MCAS details. Once the Ethiopian crash revealed MCAS's uncommanded nose-down, the focus shifted. As Capt Sully said, even experienced pilots would've struggled with an unknown system. Best to temper those initial judgments on pilot actions.
Man this looks pretty bad if confirm by the black boxes i have never seen a twin engine plane had both engines fail in takeoff.
Justin, seek help.
normal people don't behave like you and it's the reason the people close to you treat you like they do.
No one has mentioned that the rat can be deployed by a pilot pressing and holding the rat switch.
Presumably if a fuel contamination issue wouldn’t that have also affected other flights that day presuming the same fuel supplier (which I believe at most Indian airports is IndianOil)?
Bird strike. That airport is notorious for bird strikes—2nd highest in India. It probably happened over the open space just beyond the end of the runway or at the start of residential development. A flock of small birds, like pigeons, would not have shown up on the runway video. Bird remnants will likely be found in both engines.
Being human equals sucking up? You probably never operated a business or a website or did anything customer-facing. When day in and day out it's all transactional or non-interactive, someone being human can be very meaningful.
While the RAT looks like a propellor, it is more accurate to call it a wind turbine (or a windmill if you wish to use a layman’s term), since it doesn’t provide propulsion but rather is driven by airflow.
I wonder whether a hydraulic failure would also fit the evidence, in particular:
• The landing gear appearing to be in transit with bogies pivoted to leading edge down but not retracting;
• The flaps appearing to be at least partially retracted - I say partially because in the video it appears you can see the leading edge of the flaps not fully flush with the wing which could indicate they weren’t fully retracted;
• The flight path being similar to other events where an aircraft has become airborne with flaps not at the correct setting for take-off but engines still delivering thrust;
• The RAT being deployed as it would in the event of a hydraulic failure.
*If* it is a hydraulic failure serious enough to cause the retraction of flaps at a critical phase of flight, that will be quite concerning, and it will be important to understand what led to such a single point-of-failure event.
Listen again. It's a very distinct sound, a whine and roar combination very different from a "normal" jet engine. High pitched.
Question to the informed: One of the theory for dual engine failure is contaminated fuel. But, if that was the case, wouldn’t other flights (domestic or international) also suffer/struggle? Also, this flight took off around ~2pm. Many flights would have departed before this one.
I wasn't aware of this but it seems the RAT was deployed automatically as we can hear it whirring, but we cannot hear the engines. They definitely seemed to be totally cut off. It sounded like a prop plane whizzing by.
@Ben please tell us it's another surprise destination trip! Your dad's delight on each leg was very enjoyable to read about.
When CX780 happened, other flights that departed the same airport around the same timeframe did not have a similar dual engine failure.
I wonder if this is reminiscent of the Kegworth air crash in the UK, where a single engine failure on a B737 was compounded by pilot error when they shut down the wrong engine. (I am not a pilot.)
IF.... (big IF) it is confirmed that a complete shut down of both engines has happened (and is therefore possible), it throws into question all the premises of modern commercial aviation: As reliability and MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) increase, the need for more engines decreases, which is why no more quadri-jets are produced. "Double shut downs cannot happen, and the Titanic ws unsinkable". Expect many requests for their return
>This version has much better picture and sound quality.
I don't think it's "enhanced", I think it's been entirely replaced.
@Mike O:
It is just your nature indeed and there is much to be desired of such nature. Have you ever met Ben or his father?
It's just your nature, you say? What? To suck up like a teacher's pet? I suggest you change said nature...
A better natured person would have wished all the dads who posts here a happy father's day and not just the owner of the blog.
But hey, you do you...
I READ THAT IN 2013 AN AIRLINE OR THE FAA ACTUALLY REQUIRED ALL AIRCRAFT THAT HAD THE GENERAL ELECTRIC GEnx, a HIGH-EFFICIENCY ENGINES BE REPLACED OR REPAIRED. ALTHOUGH THIS WAS BASED ON ANOTHER BOEING THAT HAD ICE THE DISLODGED OFF THE TURBINES & INTO THE ENGINES CAUSING BOTH ENGINES TO FAIL SIMULTANEOUSLY. JUST CURIOUS IF YOU KNOW ABOUT THESE ENGINES & IF THIS AIRCRAFT FALLS WITHIN THE TIMEFRAME OF THIS PREVIOUS DOUBLE ENGINE FAILURE INCIDENT?
While I follow Cpt Steve's channel I think he's slipping close to making some very definite-sounding statements based on a highly pixelated image. Note, I don't think this is for traffic or in any way self serving, just an easy "drift" in which to find oneself. Further, in his prior videos he's indicated that even the higher quality film is not at a resolution that allows for firm determination of the trailing edge flaps' position. If it's not possible to determine the position of a wing surface tens of feet in width I find it problematic to state definitively that an artifact represents proof of the RAT deployment. When the aircraft passes by at the start of the film in much better clarity, and in almost full side view, the RAT is not evident (yet).
This is not to say it didn't deploy, but there is a risk of over-focus on the RAT when other clear anomalies exist. Further, if the RAT was in response to a hydraulic failure the flaps would not self-retract (especially in less than 30s total flight time, even a massive leak would take longer).
There is also video of a passenger on this very plane earlier that day documenting that the IFE systems were inop, the air conditioning was apparently inop, etc. Anecdotal, but doesn't point to a healthy electrical system at face value.
Two still glaring questions remain in addition to the possible RAT deployment:
Takeoff run - it appears to be confirmed that the plane did taxi and U-turn in order to allow use of the full runway length. Why was almost two miles of runway needed to reach rotation? If an engine issue it should have become apparent that the aircraft was not accelerating as should have been expected and the roll abandoned.
Takeoff run alternate - if the crew actually did perform an intersection takeoff it may explain the late rotation, but also points to mis-configuration. Int takeoffs are often performed for expediency, suggesting a time consideration (hurried) and potential for incomplete checklists/configuration. (This is another issue I have with Cpt Steve's earlier video where he states that it's not possible to take off with an incomplete checklist - patently untrue, the on-screen checklists will alert the pilots but will NOT prevent their actions with the aircraft. Videos of just this type of late configuration by a crew while rolling down the runway are easy to find).
Essentially too many oddities about the entire sequence, and it's unfortunate that the media is promoting Youtubers' theories for clicks. Data recorders will reveal every second ultimately.