Lufthansa is in the process of introducing its new Allegris cabin concept, which includes an all-new first class and all-new business class. The new Allegris cabins debuted on newly delivered Airbus A350-900s, and we’re now also seeing them installed on newly delivered Boeing 787-9s (though those planes don’t have first class, and not all business…
Continue reading: Lufthansa Boeing 747s Get Allegris Cabins, With Bizarre Two-Part Plan
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
The last few times I flew PE on LH, there were lot of economy pax attempting to "self-upgrading" to PE, probably because there's nothing separating the two cabins whatsoever (and the FAs quickly gave up policing). If they actually put a PE cabin between two Econ cabins, imagine this will only be worse. Gosh, Allegris is a gift that keeps on giving...
A business class ticket is expensive. I can't imagine paying that price and choosing an airline which will then require me to play seat roulette. I don't need to be wowed by my seat, and I certainly don't want to be irritated by losing a seating game. What I want is predictability, consistency, and rest; I'll save the adventure for after I land. I recognize that Allegris is an objective improvement, but buying choices are subjective, and all this chaotic weirdness actually makes me less likely than before to choose LH.
aero.de is reporting that first class on the 748 is not going to be the Allegris product and it's going to be 6 seats:
https://www.aero.de/news-51264/Lufthansa-Boeing-747-8-Allegris.html
Would be much better to fill top deck with PE (seats no doubt fit better) and then not expecting Biz to trapse up narrow stairs.
Do a single Biz cabin with a single and better separated Economy behind that.
I’m very skeptical of the AeroLOPA rendering. That layout looks just like the Safran Optima seat, already used for almost a decade on United, Air France, and Ethiopian (maybe others). It doesn’t look like the Allegris cabin on the A359.
@ WHS -- Right, it does look like those products. But I think the reason is that because the cabin on the 747-8 is wider, the airline can fit four seats in each row, so it's modifying the configuration somewhat. The reason for the three seats per row is presumably a space issue, due to how inefficient the Allegris layout is.
To be honest, I don't think biz or FC pax mind traipsing up narrow stairs; this is because of the additional privacy afforded on the upper deck - the only people passing through it are the FAs and other upper deck pax going to the lav.
Having FC upstairs on the 747-400 was a real selling point back in the day.
@ TimUK -- Yeah I agree in theory, though that would be a massive premium economy cabin to take up the entire upper deck, I'd think.
All it would take is for LH to make a "747 nose residence" (basically combine the row 1 FC seats and put a wall up, and then put 4-5 regular Allegris FC seats behind) for Avgeeks everywhere to forget the follies of Allegris and start drooling...
Allegris BC does look better in this config than on the 359 though.
Whoever is in charge of the Allegris premium products should be fired by now. This is not going to work. Can you imagine how angry business class passengers will be, when they entered the plane seeing the nice Allegris business class cabin, and then find those awful pathetic business class seats in the upper deck? Not everyone is an AvGeek and many of them will not be understanding. The crews will have to bear the blunt of disgruntled premium passengers. Lufthansa is going to get so much complaints that they have to somehow stop selling the upper deck business class seats!
Whoever approve this 747-8 fix should never work in the industry again. It makes no sense.
By 2027, these Allegris seats will be outdated and Qatar will have more Q-Suite 2.0 rolled out.
I avoid Lufthansa long haul flights and once Austrian transforms into a full 787-9 fleet, and ITA fully joins Star Alliance, I will only consider flying those two airlines in premium cabin. The Allegris cabin is just too complicated and is underwhelming.
That mini Allegris cabin (Row 14-16) looks great especially if you can get the front row suite. As for the Y and PY and then Y layout, it’s what they have now and it definitely feels weird. Air China has a similar layout out on their 747-8 but for F and J. The J cabin is in the nose and then it goes First in the front mid section, then Y.
I give it about 3 weeks before this leads to so many complaints they reclassify the cabin and start selling it to premium economy passengers for an extra €250-300. Possibly the most stupid plan I’ve heard from an airline since Beond
Will seats and bulkheads be replaced by new ones in premium economy and economy for the 1st retrofit?
Ben, they already chose different seat suppliers for the B789 and A359, so why not go for a third supplier on the B748?
This will no doubt be excellent. Lufthansa is the best, not like all the sky team trash
It‘s Not complicated at all. Book a flight, take a Seat (or not) and fly. What‘s so complicated?
It‘s Not complicated at all. Book a flight, take a Seat (or not) and fly. What‘s so complicated?
What I find even more amusing is that the J+ suites (would there be 4 or 8 of those?) on the lower deck are going to be materially better than the actual F seats for sale, ha!
I don't think anyone would choose the new J+ over the current F. But I get your point.
The extra width really improves the layout. The stupid middle coffin is gone—way more options for couples and families.
I concur. Spohr has run his airline in something of a hit-and-run fashion. But perhaps he hasn't noticed what he's done yet and will stop to reassess now that this has been brought to his attention. Though it is more likely that he'll just flee the country shortly after LufthKafka succumbs to its injuries. That seems to be the Spohr way.
@Ben - LH could put regular economy seats behind PE on the upper deck. Maybe even make them extra legroom seats and charge extra for the privacy. I remember seeing that done on other airlines' 747 upper deck before. It honestly doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't do that (LH doesn't seem to have an issue with separate small Y cabins).
Exactly, brudi. The best at:
Revenue optimization - Pursuing €414 from HON Circle passengers during family medical emergencies, then losing in court and creating precedent that costs millions
Product innovation - Taking seven years to deliver Allegris, then installing two different business class products on the same aircraft because over-engineering wasn't complicated enough
Customer relations - Training flight attendants to inform on passengers, collectively punishing 128 Jewish passengers based on religious appearance, attempting to ban AirTags when customers documented lost luggage
Leadership excellence - A CEO who travels with bodyguards, sends security after 21-year-old fans requesting selfies, calls his own airline the "problem child" while taking pay raises, and whose wife killed a pedestrian then fled the country
Loyalty program management - "Exciting" dynamic award pricing tied to cash fares while maintaining saver-level availability restrictions
Operational efficiency - €350M lost to strikes in 2024, major IT failures forcing pen-and-paper check-ins, 787s with uncertified seats sitting idle
Truly raising the bar for what premium aviation can achieve. SkyTeam could never match this level of commitment to passenger surveillance and systematic incompetence.
You're right - flying shouldn't be complicated. Yet somehow Lufthansa has managed to overcomplicate every aspect: seven years to deliver Allegris, multiple seat variants requiring separate certifications, 787s with unusable business class seats, and now installing two different business class products on the same 747.
The complication isn't flying. It's Spohr's Lufthansa turning straightforward operations into bureaucratic nightmares while simultaneously training crew to inform on passengers and pursuing top-tier customers for €414 during family emergencies.
Book a flight, take a seat, fly - unless you're on Lufthansa, where you might get reported to revenue enforcement, collectively punished based on ethnicity, or play seat roulette between old and new business class on the same aircraft.
Precisely. You're paying premium fares for predictability, not to gamble on which version of business class you'll receive. Lufthansa has somehow turned a cabin upgrade into a lottery while simultaneously charging €300 surcharges for the "good" seats.
The real adventure with Lufthansa isn't after you land - it's wondering if your flight attendant will report you to revenue enforcement, if your bags will arrive, or if customer service will actually answer the phone when something goes wrong.
Consistency and reliability used to be what premium carriers sold. Under Spohr, Lufthansa sells chaos at premium prices.
Carsten Spohr will always replace one bad idea with a worse idea. Then he'll blame someone else and talk as if he is an observer.
@AJ, agreed. It's like they're playing a game of, "What can we do to screw things up even more?" The rollout of Allegris, FRA F/SEN/*G check-in, this, etc., all suck.
Because CA F suites are simply too large to fit in the nose (they're the unified with 77W F suites). And, taking into account that the number of suites is 12 (1.5 times larger than LH F and 2 times larger than KE F), probably it gives much better weight balance for 748 compared to the location of F in the nose.
Because CA F suites are simply too large to fit in the nose (they're unified with 77W F suites). And, taking into account that the number of suites is 12 (1.5 times larger than LH F and 2 times larger than KE F), probably it gives much better weight balance for 748 compared to the location of F in the nose.
Feel like just putting FC and PE upstairs is way better than having some stupid random business class there.
And when you think it cannot get any more unhinged with Lufthansa you read about this very, very brilliant plan. This is Carsten Spohr at his finest.
So, just to be clear, having introduced a business class product with 7 different types of seats already, all separately chargeable, only a minority of which look appealing... LH is seriously proposing to then sell their old J class seats as standard on 748 aircraft, and expect people who get stuck on that type of aircraft to pay a premium even for the most basic, cramped aisle seats in Allegris?
Why on earth would any frequent traveler in premium cabins ever subject themselves to this obnoxious lottery? I was already so deeply unimpressed with LH and this now pretty much ensures I would never pay for a premium ticket on this airline. What would be the point?
Frankly, for a number of years, I've regarded the Allegris saga as an amusing drama to watch. I've only recently realised it was merely symptomatic of how far this airline has fallen under Spohr, the complete rot of the culture and planning on every level. LH itself has fallen off a cliff, in terms of the disconnect between what passengers (especially in premium cabins) want and what they try to offer. It's truly the absolute last choice amongst major European carriers now for premium travel - the one people book when they can't get anything better.
I reckon you you get 52 PE or 24 Allegris seats on top deck.
With Allegris on top deck, I get the layout at 72J 40W 220M
With PE on top deck, I get 72J 52W ~198M
So yes, with PE exclusively on top deck, you'd have to reduce Economy by ~2 rows to maintain the same Biz count
For First, could Row1 be 2x 'double' suites, with Row2 being 1-'2'-1 ?
Maybe if there's some space left right in the nose, a bathroom and/or shower suite!? Admittedly way too optimistic I think
BA tested its then new club world flat bed on the upper deck only of some 747-400s in early 2000. It was a test but it did mean two business seat products on those too. (For a short while).
By the way, Lufthansa SEN get the run of most Allegris seat options for free.
You are correct, Kerry. Big time. It's as if LuftKafka is an allegedly inattentive driver and we, the passengers, are just a nice babysitter trying to cross the road before being struck.
@lucky this 747 has already left XMN so it should be flying already for pax service for LH. Can you give an update on this?
Great news that the 747 800 first class will maintain its open cabin look and feel while providing the luxury of a new installation. The Allegris first class (and business too, actually) is VERY confining giving an uncomfortable sense of claustrophobia and isolation. The apparent rage of "not seeing anyone" is very strange to me. Would anyone enjoy a 5 star Michelin restaurant in a closed closet? No. The bleakness of the Allegris strategy even removes the sense that the onboard flight attendant crew are there and eager to engage. Sure hope the new FC on 747 800s does not mirror the Allegris idea.