Lufthansa Group has just rolled out some changes to its fares, which customers will no doubt be unhappy about (though I trust the airline will try to spin this as a positive).
Continue reading: Bleh: Lufthansa Group Rolling Out Punitive, Basic Business Class Fares
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
(Reposting again...)
I really don't mind this development. There are no bad seats in an 1-2-1 configuration (assuming it becomes standard) and they'll most likely keep the extra bag for *Gs. Their totally inflexible Business Basic fares within Europe are often priced very close to Economy Classic and work fine for me whenever I need to book within a month of departure. There's no need for a ticket with 'free'/cheap changes (and the associated opportunity cost for the airline) if you know you need to fly halfway across the world in a week's time- it's not like there's an hourly flight to Luanda and you can just turn up at the airport and catch an earlier one.
I'm less worried about the substance of these changes than the implementation risks when it comes to partner awards, multi-carrier tickets, fare class mapping on *A, travel agents misaligning the letter with the fare family etc.
The question is: will these light fares be cheaper than the current basic fares that offer additional benefits, or will the currently lowest fares become light with fewer benefits, and the prices will just go up for basic and flex fares?
This line of thinking is a bit simplistic, because fares may become more expensive due to fuel prices, then fall due to the incoming financial crisis etc. I suspect they'll be able to get a tiny bit extra per seat kilometre by getting a bit more from Mittelstand business travellers and a bit less from premium leisure pax.
Put money on the prediction markets that the worst seat class will be priced at what is now the normal price, and the tickets that are now priced normally will go up in price. Easy money.
It’s fascinating to see a corporate board allowing their leader to pursue the kind of pennny wise and pound foolish policies that will drive away a good portion of their non-corporate loyal clients and potentially bring their airline to ruin.
@ADR , nobody outside of the DACH-raum is loyal to Lufthansa. People either fly the airline because it goes where they need to go (that's me when flying around Europe) or because it's cheap (€3k for F from Europe to GRU or SIN and back isn't unheard of- I'm still not keen though). They have no pricing power beyond the little bit that's afforded to them by the reach of their network (constrained by LCCs which are cheaper but less convenient).
Two thoughts (maybe slightly contradicting)
1. I don't usually care about the introduction of these basic fares. I also don't think they automatically mean that prices go up. Lufthansa operates in a competitive market, and prices will be determined by supply and demand.
2. That being said... I used to fly Lufthansa quite a bit and am doing so less and less in recent years. I feel that every aspect of their product (soft or hard) and pricing is designed by a team of people who have absolutely no clue. It has become just an unpleasant airline to deal with.
Leave it to Lufthansa to further enshittify the travel experience in the premium cabins - and they will indeed come for first class next. And then next they'll do it to SWISS.
I just hope that AF, EK, and SQ manage to preserve the simplicity and quality of their FC cabins.
They're great for short haul because they've got more flights to more places than anyone else. Places like Katowice, Thessaloniki, Debrecen, Genoa, Stavanger and even Birmingham mostly rely on LCCs and, while other airlines may offer a bit of connectivity, it's not easy to travel between them on a single ticket outside of LHG. Plus they generally get there on time and without losing any luggage. SEN lounges are also above average - they're clean and occasionally offer a decent whisky or two.
For travel beyond Europe, there's virtually always a better option irrespective of which cabin you prefer/can afford.
"I feel that every aspect of their product (soft or hard) and pricing is designed by a team of people who have absolutely no clue. It has become just an unpleasant airline to deal with."
Two words: Carsten. Spohr.
Personally I am very afraid for TAP, I think that they've been making real strides since the pandemic and they're now a great option both regionally and across the pond. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that LH won't be allowed to mess too much with them if they do succeed in grabbing 49.9%.
Disgusting … once you spend a certain amount of cash … as in thousands of dollars , you really don’t want to be nickel and dimed. Self destruction to a 5 star brand lol
Uncomfortable seats. Crummy meals. Mediocre amenity kits…
There is competition. Bueller? Bueller! Isn’t there?
@Throwawayname I want to see those 3k F flights to, are they ex-BUD/Nordics? 🙂
FWIW even for frequent fliers within DACH countries, loyalty towards LH is falling. They may still retain contracts with very large corporations (like your VWs and Siemens), but I am also aware of quite a few large and mid-sized ones dropping LH-"exclusive" travel as well as pushing for train travel domestically (routes which given the pricing must be very lucrative for LH). Also, from what I've heard, PartnerPlusBenefit (the portal that SMEs use for corporate LH travel) hasn't recovered that well post-Covid and its performance seems to be leaving much to be desired... it's rumours I've heard from people directly linked with LH, nothing official, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.
Even for me, being based in MUC and whose employer pays for my travels, I avoid LH like the plague because 1) IAG covers my most traveled routes of MUC-MAD/LHR as well as having a better network with IB to South America and 2) Despite improvements in reliability, especially concerning strikes, they still lag behind AFKL and IAG... in my eyes, if I'm travelling for work and am counting on being at my destination on a certain day at a certain time with a packed schedule, I cannot deal with the ever-glooming chance of receiving an email 24h before departure informing me that my flight is cancelled because their incompetent leadership isn't able to reach an agreement with its FAs, ground staff or whatnot.
@Ben Holz, BUD does ring a bell. Travel-dealz publish the offers every so often. I'm normally more interested in the frequent SN business class sales (often from France) to Africa for less than €1.5k return, until that is I realise they book into P[unishment] class which would earn me no miles.
KLM (part of AF) already charged for seat selection (150 EUR) and sell business tickets without lounge accessso sorry Willy I suspect it's only a matter of time for AF.
Peter is right; pay the same for less, or pay more for what you used to get. All airlines are gonna do this soon enough. *sigh*
@TravelinWilly poor old Carsten might have had too many things on his mind these last couple of months... I mean his wife killed someone less than a year ago 😉
Charging people for the privilege to reserve a seat is just a bridge too far IMO. I hope airlines reverse this, but i fear they won't. It's literally no cost to an airline. I can wrap my mind around checked bags, there is a direct cost associated with handling baggage. But reserving a seat is automated on their software. the cost is zero or near zero.
It's like when BMW tried to do subscription pricing on seat warmers.
Well, given you don't share or know what these fares will be makes this rather an odd post. I mean, if they are offering $1800 one way fares (eventually) from IAD as one example the downsides you discuss are meaningless. So I have to pay a little extra for a seat reservation. Not a huge deal in the long run as this is attractive as a buy in.
Let's wait and see. Mostly this will panic those who live for mileage booking as if priced correctly it will make award travel in J almost non-existant.
Well, I don’t fly LH and see no reason to in the future. But note that even as an SQ Solitaire and TK Elite Plus member Air Canada does not give me free seat assignments. I still need to pay for those. Solution: avoid AC as well.
It’s now March 17 exactly a month and a half ago I was looking to book 2 premium economy seats to Greece. Total was around 2800 for two passengers going and returning. I didn’t book them. I checked them today and they’re over $3500 for the same flights big difference.
There will be no Basic Light fares to/from North America, just into selected markets.
The punitive, basic business class fares will finally match their punitive, basic business class product.
AF KL already sell Business Light fares with one bag, paid seat and no lounge access. However consider that flying blue elite plus members already have an extra bag, lounge access and free seat selection. I believe emirates already has a similar fare structure. Of course in la premiere with four seats, there’s no LP light.
I mean monetisation of seat selection is Allegris' raison d'être. Financially they sort of have to do it to recoup the excess project and cost over installing a run-of-the-mill product. The fact that it is pure margin is exactly why they want it.
Reversion will only come through competitive pressure.
More reason not to fly the Lufthansa Group!
it is just pathetic, and unless the fares are rock bottom, I have no interest to fly Lufthansa under any circumstances!
…LH however does give me free seat selection even when using my A3 backup Gold status.
So far. It’s clear they are trying this out in select markets and if it succeeds will expand it later.
TAP is very underrated with fares and experience in their business class. Agreed!
100%. For those of use based in Central/Eastern Europe there isn't really another viable option. BHX doesn't get much love and it's typical that BA refuse to operate from there.
Waiting for all the "business class fares have actually decreased year on year" that somehow both aviation lobbies and governments will try to throw out there after these changes.
Flying business class with LH group, with cash or award flights, feels more like punishment than what it should be, a pleasant experience..
This is exactly why last year both me and my wife left M&M and avoid LH group whenever possible (we still like Austrian, though).
Living in Switzerland, one cannot avoid them completely, but most of our hard earned cash and loyalty we put elsewhere. And ROI is much better. 🙂
But they have. I'm paying less for business class within Europe today than my dad used to pay for Y back in the 1990s. That's in NOMINAL terms, before you factor in 30 years' worth of inflation.
Its one thing to introduce business basic if it will actually make the fares cheaper, but to pay the same price for a worse product is just a slap in the face. I avoid LH group. I'll only fly them once more in First on a 747 then call it wraps probably.
Who would pay for the isle seats when there is a chance to get better seats after check in ? Only companions I suppose.
But LH loyal customers will keep paying LH blindly irrespective of product/service so it doesn't really matter.
With all the new technology as it relates to baggage tracking and interlining we no longer need alliances and antitrust protection. Eliminate that, have them compete again instead of allowing setting up regional quasi duopolies at best and we will have loyalty valued again and the credit card BS stopped. LH group is living of the regional set up, u hardly can avoid them, it was a smart move but without Alliance and use of AI there is no need to have price fixing and collusion on big scale
hola, lamento informar que LH ya introdujo cambios en viajes de premio en 1 st class. Ayer (16 marzo) hize la reserva EZE/GDN y tuve varias opciones First Standart, First Basic Plus, First Flex y otras mas. Cada una con diferentes cantidades de millas y su respectivas restricciones, valor de tax, etc....
Es lamentable que LH cada vez menos cuida a sus viajeros frecuentes. trato de evitar viajar con ellos siempre cuando tengo otra opcion.
With the recent changes to M&M program it is quite difficult/tricky to get Senator status - for non-corporate travellers. I can't see ANY point now to bother any longer. Especially that in the group only Swiss and Austrian provide ( usually ) decent service - with poor hard product though.
I don't understand how people are upset with having a cheaper option as an option.
'While not directly equating to 30% of a passenger's ticket price, fuel is the largest single expense, causing airfares to increase significantly when oil prices rise.'
Airlines around the world are introducing fuel surcharges as oil prices surge amid the escalating conflict involving the United States, Israel, and Iran. The sharp rise in crude oil and aviation turbine fuel prices has forced carriers to pass on higher operating costs to passengers through additional charges on flight tickets.
Because it won't be cheaper. They'll simply set the average price of the Business Light at the current level of Business Saver and shift everything up in the higher fares.
It won't be a case of paying less for less, rather a case of paying more for the same.
"basic" and "premium cabin" just don't go together IMO. Cheapening the product might get them a little more margin in the short run, but at the price of decreasing the long-term value of the product (eg, the cachet of Business on that carrier).
I dont understand it. Business travellers usually cannot expense extra options
You see it with Swiss, nobody pays for the throne seat because nobody is allowed to put in their expense report.
Business travelers are quite insensitive to fare hikes but cannot pay for options