As we learned last week, leveraging Delta’s partners is the best way to not get screwed when redeeming SkyMiles, sowhen reader Nolan asked the following on the Ask Lucky forum recentlyI was excited to answer:
Continue reading: Which Delta Partner Has The Best Business Class To Europe?
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I think business class to Europe on partners is really the sweet spot for Skypesos. I've been to Europe each of the last 4 summers, all on Skymiles partners. Being in Chicago there there are so many choices w/ 1 daily flight on AF, KLM, Altalia, & Virgin and there is relatively zero competition from connecting traffic. The fuel surcharges can be a bummer on Virgin, but the others are pretty reasonable.
I've flown AF the last 2 years on their A333 which had the old seats but in a 2x2x2 config. I actually have found them pretty comfy....but that's probably more due to the champagne + ambien than the actual seat.
Tiffany,
Thank you for this informative and well narrated post. I very much enjoy reading it and all of your posts before.
So, does everyone discount DL because there's no availability? Or is it more expensive somehow? I hadn't flown DL in forever and don't collect their miles, but bought one of their relatively inexpensive business class fares to Madrid and found it to be quite good. The "Delta One" seat on the 767 was way too cramped but it looks like they have a nicer product on other a/c. I was very pleasantly surprised.
RakSiam,
People discount Delta because the lack of "prestige" airline partners like Lufthansa, Cathay, Singapore, Emirates, the perceived lack of availability of premium award space, and a previously broke award calendar. However, Delta for many is the preferred domestic airline, and as Tiffany mentioned, presents many great options when redeeming to Europe. Going to Asia, Korean Air and Delta's own metal (flights to Tokyo and Hong Kong via Seattle) present good options. Overall it my favorite airline.
Virgin is the best if you're going to the UK (especially Heathrow and Manchester). Rest of Europe I'd say KLM because of the better seats than AF (though I'd say AF once refurbishment is completed), the strong regional network (especially in Scandinavia and the UK), Schiphol being a better airport than CDG and FCO combined and tge Delft houses which are a reason to fly in itself
Great rundown. Absolutely agree that, especially if you are traveling with a friend or partner, there are few more *fun* ways to travel than Virgin Atlantic Upper Class.
I will note though that you left off Delta themselves, which can still be available at the Tier 1 number of miles on many TATL routes if you book well in advance. While Delta doesn't quite have the foreign flair of any of these 4, it does have good seats on all aircraft, very good catering (great on certain premium routes like JFK and ATL to LHR, CDG, AMS and FRA), and the rest of the soft product is very good as well. I would easily choose to fly DL business class over AF, LH or BA business class.
Tiffany;
Great report and great style of writing. Clear, funny and to the point. I really enjoyed your previous posts.
You make me want to have some skypesos to burn.
Having trouble even getting KLM award space to show up on Delta's site. Looking for a NYC - AMS flight in early August. I can see the flights when I search by $ amount, but no amount of changes can make it appear when I click on miles - regardless of the cost in miles.
Have tried multiple days and times. Is the flight just sold-out on miles, or is Delta hiding non-Delta inventory?
I loved this post! It had a great amount of thoughtful detail clearly explained. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Tiff, for a good analysis without the "Oh-I-must-fly-first-class-only " attitude! Or is that a gay thing like Lucky Ben and The Points Guy?
God help you if you ever experience any disruptions or IRROPS on Air France...as soon as anything deviates from the 'norm'/going by the book they do not have a CLUE. Their safety record isn't too hot either.
Frankly DL's reverse herringbone business class on their A330 (which is used on many US-Europe routes) is probably only surpassed by the new AF Business Class. Sure the soft product and food on the partner airlines is better (although the service and food are slightly worse on VS or at best no better than DL) but not drastically so.
That said, this was still really useful because DL is way stingier with award availability than their partners, especially on nonstop flights. I've typically only found DL availability on flights to the weirder European destinations so unless your final destination is one of those or a SkyTeam hub, the partners are probably the most realistic option.
@ RakSiam @Bgriff -- Oh, absolutely, and Delta has a very nice business class as well! Nolan just asked about partners, and I didn't want to get into the pricing algorithms again in this post. I'm sure Nick will be along shortly to tell us all why Delta is better than all other options 😉
@ Ben -- I love first class! But I also live on the West Coast, and I like going to Europe. So business class it is!
@ Sergey -- I actually haven't flow Aeroflot yet. How do you feel it compares to the other partners?
@Tiffany: Great post even if you're infringing on my SkyTeam beat here... 😉 What I'd add would be:
-Air France's catering is of a bit better quality than KLM, Alitalia or Virgin Atlantic (and if you're harping on KLM's dinnerware, you're forgetting AF has Christofle cutlery)
-Air France's service is not just stylish, but actively warm/personable
-CDG is the worst, but that's not entirely AF's fault (after all, Terminal 1 which is the non-SkyTeam terminal is just as horrid), and AF's lounges in CDG are very, very strong
-When you say KLM's service is "adorably Dutch," what you mean to say is "indifferent, gruff, borderline German"
I'm flying Virgin Atlantic in Upper Class in two weeks and will have a trip report to share with all of you!
Seriously, though, Tiffany-- fantastic post.
Nice article! I am flying out of LAX tonight on AF69 (777-300ER) business class, and found it still has old 2-3-2 configuration. Apparently, there is some delay in cabin refurbishment.
There's also the overlooked Air Europa for Skyteam... although there may be a good reason why they are overlooked...
Thanks so much Tiffany! I would like to go to both Rome and London at some point, so it will probably be either Virgin Atlantic or Alitalia (Although I would also like to visit Amsterdam and Paris). It all depends on availability, return flights, etc. Thanks SO MUCH for the post! Never thought that would happen!
Nick: "Seriously, though, Tiffany– fantastic post."
Second that! Really loving Tiffany's contributions - always great analysis and a talent for communicating clearly even quite convoluted matters.
Look forward to the Upper Class review Nick.
Just a small tip of advice: do NOT fly AF B. Avoid it at all costs because all around its not worth paying much more than a domestic first/business class fare. Although I tried their Prem Econ onboard the 777 it's kind of better in terms that it is cheaper, you still get champagne, entertainment, and a seat that reclines well for a day flight (or night if you are like my wife who can only sleep in an airplane seat of its in the nearly upright position.) Although, I've found most of their flight attendants to be bored and uninterested (or as Lucky says, they are "going through the motions.") I would say Virgin Atlantic Upper Class is the one to go with, or if unable, KLM is a good plan B. Alitalia isn't too bad, but with the staggered, narrow seats, it's not comfortable for either a day or night flight (but their soft product is definitely better than other SkyTeam airlines (I'm looking at you, Delta and Air France.)
@ Fabio -- Thanks! Can't believe I missed that (and that no one else caught it either). Fixed now!
Tiffany - enjoy your style and posts. I want to do LAX-AUK in Aug 2016 with SO's in China, HKG, MEL on outbound. Direct return to LAX. Based on your West Coast experience, what airline would you choose for this itinerary based on ease of finding and booking award space preferably in F or business? Any additional tips/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry, I know this is not Tiffany answering (and I'm sure her reply with be x10000 better than mine), but I want to share what I would picked in the past. Personally, I am a major fan of Oneworld, so I would recommend CX for LAX-HKG and then fly QF for HKG-AUK via SYD or MEL (but SYD would be better for a premium passenger connecting). I would do F on CX and on QF of the outbound, and then maybe B in the return on QF for AUK-LAX via SYD/MEL. Anyway, you should probably listen to Tiffany because she knows WAY more than I do, but I thought it might be helpful to provide my itinerary I took last December over Christmas. Have fun in Aukland and I hope you enjoy your trip as much as I did! Another note, it would be worth it to find cheap fares from AUK-NPE for a night. It is a beautiful little town with a beautiful landscape.
@ jack -- That is very helpful!
@ bobbieddie -- What miles do you have at present? That's probably the best starting point.
Tiffany,
Nice post! KLM doesn't operate the 787 yet at the moment, but when they do (the inaugural is in late october), they'll have the Zodiac seats on board - the same as the new AF product, in 1-2-1. So probably an even better product then the current New World Business Class. Unfortunately, they won't be flying to the US any time soon...
Jack - Many thanks for your thoughts. Can you share what websites you used to make your bookings - did you use Asia Miles website, already have miles in an account, or transfer miles when you had secured your flights? Any tips on how best to do that? I don't want to transfer and load up CX or KrisFlyer and then not be able to get the flights.
Tiffany - I have lots of AA miles, and lots of Chase Ultimate Rewards, SPG miles. Am starting to collect Citi Thank You Rewards as well. Look forward to your thoughts.
Thanks to you both.
I hope that this is helpful. Sadly, I wasn't the one who made the bookings (my sister did). She said she had used AAdvantage miles because she travels a lot for work. She called the Executive Platinum line to make the bookings (and she did it on the first call!). Honestly, what we did was have a payed revenue fare on AA from ORD-JFK (I live in Chicago, so that is why we flew out of there) and then connected on CX to HKG after a nice overnight in NYC. That way you can drink even more champagne and enjoy the experience more 😉 so that may be a possibility for you. But in my opinion, another possible way you can go to AKL is to fly EY from LAX-AUH and then AUH-LHR again on EY (or BA if you want to try different first class) and finally LHR-SYD-AKL on QF. On the return, you could fly on QF from AKL-SYD-HKG and then HKG-LAX/JFK (and then pay for a flight from JFK-LAX) on CX. That way it can become an around the work in first class trip! Although, it all comes down to how many miles you have/how many miles your willing to spend. Hope this helps!
I may buck the trend here, but I HATED Virgin Atlantic. I feel it is hype over substance. Their crappy old planes, the seat layout where you cannot look out the windows so you spend your time staring at another person because you are angled facing that person, the truly awful meals for a business class product. I could go on but you get the drift. The irony is that finally Delta has caught up in terms of its seat in its Business Elite with a full-sized pillow and duvet and REALLY comfortable seats, which unlike Virgin you have more choice than either go to bed or sit up straight, plus the signature Delta friendliness of its flight attendants. For some reason best known to them they have ceded all flights to Europe from Atlanta to Virgin. I able to compare the two last year with Virgin on the flight to Manchester (old plane, crap seating and running out of choices to eat and being told that if I really wanted beef that they'd get me a beef stew from coach. To which I said sure as long as you refund me my business class fare) And then flying back via Delta which I have to say was superb, from the meals, to the seat, to the flight attendants. Hope it's better this year as I'm going with KLM on the outbound flight and Virgin on the flight back to the States. Maybe a different aircraft may make the difference, but I doubt it. But when you've no choice, you have to put up with it.
Totally agree on the AF 7 across. I am (most unhappily) seated in such a section on an AF from ATL to CDG tonight. Fingers crossed that no one is in the 'F' seat next to me. Not only is it not lie flat, but there is basically no personal stowage for passport, phone, etc and the amenities bag is a joke. Being AF I expect good food but I will be skipping that trying to sleep. I'm going to be very careful booking AF in the future. Could be worse. I could be on an old (is there any other kind) KLM craft.
Wonderful posts and responses. I have flown DL pretty much exclusively the past decade or so, but just returned from four long flights on KLM -- LAX-AMS-CPT-AMS-JFK -- and was extremely happy with the experience. For the last (and shortest) of these flights, KLM switched equipment, moving from a 777 with new World Business Class to one with old (Northwest product). I'd initially chosen Seat 1A, but was involuntarily moved to the last row in the middle-most of three seats. I was not happy. But the KLM lounge people rearranged things and got me in 1A again, which, for a day flight, was fine even in the older seat, with more legroom than the new one would have afforded. I did find that, for all hour KLM flights, my stranger-seatmates were delightful. It's very different from Delta domestic first class, where most will not even exchange a quick hello.
Beware that the KLM 747 Combi has an inferior AVOD system with low-res screens and no USB charger (though there is AC charging). The new 777s have outstanding AVOD and all the charging plugs you could want, though they're over your shoulder.
I want to go back to South Africa again, and would happily use KLM, but options seemed to be better for VS, ergo my seeking out this site. As a single traveler, I generally prefer private pods, though I far prefer those on DL A330s (which face out on the sides) to DL 777s (which seem similar to VS). Part of the fun of flying is looking out the window, and that's a strain, particularly on the latter.
Anyway, back to KLM, I found the FAs to be extremely pleasant, knowledgeable, and eager to keep the passengers happy. This was true on all four flights, so I'd hazard it's part of the corporate culture. Delta FAs are great too, so I'd call it even. The KLM food is OK -- tending toward being over-prepared with mouse-like side-dishes and casseroles, but it was perfectly fine, and in huge quantities. I'd give Delta the edge here.
What really impressed me, though, is that KLM turns off the seat belt light upon reaching cruising altitude and does not turn it back on until final approach. We went through some bumpy skies, especially over the equator, and it was refreshing not to be awakened with seat belt announcements, which are common on Delta. Maybe the EU is less litigious, but for whatever reason, it was a pleasant surprise to have common sense prevail. Also, AVOD is available from prior to the flight until engine shutdown at the arrival gate.
I have flown Air France, on the sloped sleeper seats. The service and food were outstanding on the outbound flight from LAX-CDG, but the business cabin was almost empty. For the return, I had a late connection from Rome. I arrived at the boarding gate for CDG-LAX while the A380 was still there, but I was told I was too late and nothing could be done. I was unceremoniously rebooked into a middle seat on a777 leaving three hours later. I asked about an upgrade to First for my trouble and delay, but AF said it was not possible, even though that cabin turned out to be empty. So the comment about IROPS with AF turns out to align with my experience.
The service and food on the return 777 was awful. I was seated next to a friend of the pilot, who was brought meals and drinks from (the empty) First Class cabin. Meanwhile, I could not get anyone to refill my water. Moreover, a rowdy group of AF non-rev people were having a party, and they did not invite me.
I am still eager to try VS and Alitalia (which I have only taken intra-Europe), and hope I'll have a chance to fly Korean before Delta severs its alliance completely.