Full Details: Flying Blue 2018 Program Changes

Well... Here is it... Another "improvement" of the Flying Blue program!
Whatever example I take (long/short haul, cheap/prenium...), the number of miles earned is at least half of what it was before.
Do they really thing their customer are THIS stupid???
Oh my god, I hate Flying Blue so much!

OOPS! Flying Blue used to be my favourite European program. Looks like not any longer. So where do I credit those to now?

They also used to allow lounge access for Silver members and I was surprised to find out that these days it isn't possible anymore.

I see mentioned Air France, KLM, HOP, and JOON. How about Tarom which is fully utilizing the program?

As a platinum it will be easier to keep the status when flying in discounted business as far as I can see. Just had a trip to southern Africa from Norway (via Ams and cdg) in Z-Class and got 21.000 level miles (30% of a platinum), while I will get 132 xp (44%) next year if I calculate correctly.
I have mostly given up effective use og my miles with Flying Blue and are only looking at status. Luckily I already have secured platinum for life, so these changes Will not affect me

So, which one is better to credit Skyteam flights now, Delta Skymiles or Flying Blue?

Sad.
I was just starting to enjoy Air France this year and considered moving all my loyality there. Oh well.

“One thing I find bizarre is that with this system they’re not differentiating between fare classes within a cabin.”

While CX does vary Club Points based on different inventory within the same cabin across all cabins, BA doesn’t. Within the Econmy cabin BA Tier Points vary. But in PY and above, an expensive J fare, for example gets the same TP as a cheap I fare.

So it’s not that bizarre.

For earning and spending, these look like negative changes across the board. For status though, the tier points system is somewhat beneficial to anyone who flies in paid business or first. Two of my paid business class trips this year will get me to about 65% of the MQM's I need for Delta Platinum. If I booked those flights on AF flight numbers and credited to Flying Blue under the new scheme, I would be at 270 XP's, or 90% of what I would need for Flying Blue Platinum. Just like every other change, this one is meant to reward money spent, not the amount of time that you put your *ss in a seat - which I generally prefer. I never started traveling in order to maximize my time in an airline seat, not matter how comfortable it is. On the other hand, the benefits of status are nearly inconsequential when flying on paid business and first fares.

Wonder whats gonna happen with Monthly Promo Awards?

Yeah, sure this is just 101% bad. My last flight with them earned me approx 45000 miles. Now, I would get like 5000 miles. For the XP's (being plat already) I can maintain it with 300-60 (from Amex Plat) with just 240/year. THAT's ok.

Oh, tickets bought now, flying after 1 April 2018 should go on new earning. I'm double confirming that if it's so I need to cancel at least 6 tickets.

One of the few pros I see is the calculation of 1000 level miles = 5 XPs for qualifying flights from Jan 1 to Mar 31, 2018. For those who fly a lot in the first quarter of the year, that means you just have to fly 20,000 level miles to get silver; 36,000 level miles to get gold; and 60,000 level miles to get platinum.
For the current program for residents outside of France/Monaco, the minimums for silver/gold/platinum are: 25k/40k/70k.

Flying JFK-CDG in F round-trip will give me 100 XPs and Silver status. Was worried that due to changes I wouldn't be able to get Silver status which I only want in case I want to redeem miles in F for a special trip somewhere. However, given the changes to the award chart, this all might have been in vain if F requires more than 200,000 miles to get to the USA from France.

If only airlines could place limits on credit card transfer partners...
FTers have raised an interesting point; they seem to suggest that this chart would be valid for partners as well, so would long, >2000 mile domestic flights within the US or Russia count at the lowest band?

More convoluted than negative other than status only lasting 15 months. The tier approach reminds of the old system BA bad in place (which was simplified a few years ago to remove the reset of points between tiers as that type of system confuses most people).

So basically they are doing a Delta and pitching any award charts. So you really can't plan anything as far as goals because the redemption rate is a moving target. My use of Flying Blue is mainly to secure business class seats from the USA to Paris on Air France or Amsterdam on KLM. So I am definitely not moving any miles earning into Flying Blue until it is clear I am not throwing my miles away down a big toilet. I did that with Aitalia and really got hosed. As GW Bush says "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me--you can't get fooled again." So June 1 will be very telling on what is happening here. Or will it be April 1? Anyway, I have been fooled again.

Sincerely,

A fool

Wow this is absolutely going to destroy their program. Can't wait to watch this go to hell.

These programs don't work well, and the fact that someone on a full fare Y ticket earns the same Tier Points as someone on a cheap fare? This was again put together by people that don't actually travel or understand how this stuff really works in the first place.

You are dishonest, sleazy shill for the airlines. Exhibit A - your headline (no doubt, pulled directly from their PR talking points):
"Flying Blue will let you redeem miles for any seat"
Puh-lease. Could you possibly be any more disingenuous?
THIS is why you deserve all the contempt that people heap on you.
Shame on you. Liar. Shill. Sleaze-bag. Greedy tool of the airlines.

I see it as an improvement for French domestic travellers and overall a fairer system.
I often fly AF return trip domestically last minute at full fares, those flight costs a fortune (more than transatlantic flights) but used to bring very little mileage... They fixed that.
It makes more sense to reward higher spenders and this is also in line with the changes made to the reward system of the French railway

If I’m reading this correctly, if I had no status then to get to gold would be 280 points. That’s equal to 6 business round trips HNL - US west coast. If that’s correct, that’s not a bad proposition to get status; however, the mileage accrual would likely be crap so I’d make better progress to status and to award miles if I credit to Delta... unless I’m missing something.

Another small country selling out and bowing down to the big boys...
without thinking about the customers.

Well that will certainly cause some changes in my choosing a airline.
I fly KLM/AF twice a year business class AMS/BKK and 2/3 Times AMS/JFK not too mention some European flights. Seeing the cost of KLM/ AF tickets and now this new mileage/ point system, I will find alternative airlines that are more generous. Being Dutch I’ve always been loyal to KLM, but my last couple of inflight experiences have left a bad taste in my mouth, and now this.
I saw the revenue figures from KLM/AF and they were major. Been told my whole life “greed” is no good. They need to re think this mess. FdeK

Agree with the consensus - these are not improvements by any stretch of the imagination.

My biggest complaint is still that flights are the only activity that keep points from expiring. For someone living in the US it makes it risky to accrue points unless you're willing to credit the occasional DL flight to keep it current.

Re discount eco tickets earning the same as non-discount - I have long complained about the reverse at FB: I fly very expensive itineraries (US-W Africa) on AF, where discount eco tickets can easily cost $2000+ (full fare Y is closer to $4K). So I would pay $2200 for a 13,000 mile trip and only get credited 25% of those miles. Whereas someone flying a cheaper and longer itinerary (eg IAD-AMS-CPT, which can go for as little as $1K) would get many more miles. No thanks. I finally switched to skymiles, despite the awful redemption.

Interesting. UK based, scraping FB gold right now on flight count alone as most of my flights are economy class intra-Europe. 32 this year, only two long haul premium economy so at first glance I’ll be one of the ‘underperforming’ Golds they’ve wanted to thin out for a while.

Probably way less competition for seats in the Crown Lounges once this goes through.

Well, there goes my platinum status :(. I'm on four years so far, but I can't see myself being able to keep it up with the new system. I can only manage to get platinum through the segments, but they're all short-haul flights. With 60 segments a year, I would still only get less than half the number of required XPs to keep my status.

As a oil & gas worker I travel a lot and earn my status through the numbers of flights taken and not through miles earned. I will be one of the many customers to loose out on this new program. When traveling in & out from work I only really care about getting a decent seat in a lounge between connections, hence why I look for a flyer program that allows me to gain gold status to allow for free access to the lounges. I was just beginning to enjoy KLM this year but these changes will now push me to stop booking my 12 short haul flights and 12 long haul flights a year with KLM and take that money to Emirates instead. Very upset at these changes but it does reflect KLM's continued contempt they have for their customers which can be witnessed on a daily basis in Amsterdam airport.

@Geo They will continue to exist https://insideflyer.nl/flying-blue-reinvented-the-new-program-starting-2018/

While no one needs to shed tears for me and my situation, this change is entirely negative. I currently earn elite status based upon the number of flights (40-60 per year) at economy prices. It seems that the wealthier among us who fly first and business will benefit most (and may need it least) while we working-class people get the shaft. Ah, capitalism and efficiency.

I think you guys are getting it all wrong.....
If you fly 60 short flights, as long as they are not domestic ( please remember that this refers to flyes within the same country so for AF within France) you can still keep the Platinium status.

I just checked for a flight I was looking at in April to do AMS-SIN AMS through CDG ( as I prefer teh AF plane and service and I add 2 more segments)

The quoted price as of today is 680 EUR
Old system: 2350 level miles ( not even 10% of what I need for Silver)
New system: 28 XP (28% of what I need for SIlver) plus 2720 miles on the worst case.(ivory status)

Regarding status, this really benefits those flying the cheaper fares on the cabin, as you can get the same amount of XP than someone else paying full fare.
Like any other program, they will always benefit those flying in the better cabins.

I contacted AF to get some clarification. It seems that once you're at a status, say Gold, you only need to get 180XP in a year to maintain it, not 280XP. Can anyone else confirm that this is true? In which case, it would take someone longer to get to Gold or Platinum with the new system (if you're mostly only flying short-haul), but wouldn't really change the number of flights you needed to stay there afterwards.

Did anybody already check/compare what will happen to the current miles (devaluation) you might want to spend in 2018?

Or in other words: shall I book some award flights still before April 2018? Will my miles, that I already earned over the past years be worth less after Apr. 2018?

Thanks for your comments.
Martin

Hum, I think you are missing an important point. It appears to me that we are losing access to free Economy Comfort with Delta.... For me thats a big deal.

I don't understand revenue based award miles, it just incentivises you to fly with partner airlines. If Alitalia Premium Economy is 100% then from GRU-Europe that will cost about 1000 Euro. 200 or so would be tax so flying with AF/KL 800*8= 6400 miles. With Alitalia it would be more like 12000 on distance flown... I guess we will lose the Platinum 100% bonus for partner airlines too?

We're running out of decent programs to run to.

Actually this is not all bad. Old world, 70,000 status miles to earn Platinum. If you fly economy a flight with KLM from AMS-JFK would have earned you a little over 900 status miles or 1.3% of your annual need. Now you would earn 8 XL which is 2.67% of your annual need. I think Ben has hit nail on head when he says it is strange that all Economy flights yield the same number of XLs... I think we can expect further clarification from Flying Blue on this. I make my status with long haul Alitalia Premium Economy, the numbers are more or less the same between old and new. This press release leaves a lot of unanswered questions and how they are answered will make a big difference. Really annoyed about the Delta Economy Comfort issue, now only American will offer their Economy plus product (Main Cabin Extra) to their partner elites

Hi Richard,
seemst hat you are travelling a lot with ALITALIA. What's your impression...........on booking flights with them.
I am about to book DUS-EZE with them end of Jan. 2018. The price is in BC is top (around EUR 1.800 round-trip). But many people are afraid to book tickets on ALITALIA (see AIR BERLIN, etc.). May-be you have some hints or some updated information on them?
Thanks
Martin

Alitalia Business Class is one of the best around, food and wine is exceptional and the seats are very comfortable.

I have also noted on Flying Blue that there appears to be a 10% bonus on status miles converted to XPs.

1000 miles = 1.4% of 70,000 miles which converts to 5 XP which is 1.7% of 300XP. Its worth getting as much in as you can before March 31st

As for Alitalia bankruptcy... Yes its a concern, I have no updated info, just taking a risk I guess on that!

Delta flys to Sao Paulo from various places in Europe for a good price (about 1700 Euro) you could pick up an award flight from Sao Paulo to Buenos Aires and bag about 23000 status and 35000+ award miles...

RE: "I find it strange that they award the same number of XPs no matter what fare class you’re booked in within a specific class of service, though."

Not really as this is replacing the alternative "segement" way to earn Silver, Gold, Platinum statues. Regardless of how much you paid for your flight via the old system you would receive a segment per flight you took, the new 'xp' system is considerably worse unless you frequently take 5000+mile long haul routes!

I have never reached platinum and rarely gold based on level miles as I regularly fly economy but it was thanks to the sheer number of individual flights that helped me gain my Platinum status. This was always the best option for me as I live outside of France and essentially always take indirect flights to the long haul destinations.

In summary, if you are a French/Monaco resident this is good news as you are essentially no longer punished but actually this is a huge devaluing. I was looking forward to making Platinum for life but with prices similar with Lufthansa and SA being much more far reaching I think I will be revisting my realtionship with FB/SkyTeam. And in their email to me last night I read they want to improve their relationship with their frequent flyers - ha!

Will I loose the miles currently accumulated? Should I use them for an award ticket before the changes take place?

Im very disapointed in the new system. i have been flying with flying blue 1-2 times per month on log distance flights. That will change.

Reading all your comments leaves me with a big question mark. Hope someone cantle me. If all this is so bad (the majority thinks like it), why not changing your program from Flying Blue to another more favorable Skyteam Program? As Far as I know Vietnam Airlines (50K to Platinum) or China Southern (49.700 miles or 80.000km to platinum) or maybe Delta will give you the same privileges for less? Personally no bad news for me with 140.000 level miles till today in from beginning this year I am secured platinum for at least 2 more years ;-). So time enough to look around, thinking about Cathay as they make good deals for annual plans. Anyway looking forward to your reactions.

What I don't understand about these revenue based award mile earning strategies is that it seems to reward you for flying with a partner airline more than with the airline itself. As I understand everything remains the same for partner airlines, thus on a premium economy ticket with AF from Paris to Sao Paulo (generally about 1000 Euro without tax) I would earn around 8000 miles but the same flight with Alitalia will bag nearly 3 times that also in a higher economy class with Delta (H for instance generally weighs in at about 20% less than AF Premium but would still net more than double the return. So Air France has a loyalty scheme that for me is pushing me away from ever using them but remain IN their "loyalty" program. Now that nuts isn't it?

ps... last comment... I really do not see this as a disastrous change, I guess I did join Flying Blue after the CATASTROPHIC changes at AAdvantage, so I was expecting something similar, I gambled on Flying Blue changes being better than the next round of changes at BAEC (I don't think that will be untouched for much longer), so really this is not bad.

Hopefully now they will leave is alone for another 2 or 3 years...

Now that LH Group virtually has a monopoly in Central Europe, my main reference point is M&M. AFKL is basically the only competitor left, although with a gravitation point slightly more to the West (IAG with BA/IB/EI/VY) is even more to the west, making it not feasible for intra-EU connections unless traveling to/from the West).

Compared to M&M the reinvented FB is clearly superior in almost any respect. Mileage earning is certainly fairer - if the ticket is expensive, at least you earn a decent number of miles. As for LH Group, they are notorious selling tickets for around 1000 EUR, classified as "deeply discounted" earning only 125 miles one way ... Also Elite qualification is more reasonable for FB, at least for regular travelers (see below).

Probably the only area where M&M is better, is the elite qualification flying in large countries domestically and status validity. A transcontinental flight on UA in their domestic F earns about 15'000 status miles (return), which brings you to SEN (*A Gold) status after a bit more than 6 return trips. And M&M status is valid for 2 years, which is mainly an advantage for leisure travelers who make a large trip only every two years, whereas people flying for work usually prefer annual re-qualification at lower levels, because their travel pattern is more balanced.

Mostly negative for me.

Until now I could maintain my status to Gold Level with 3 return flights between Asia & Europe in Premium Eco or Business (average of 15,000 Level Miles per trip >>> 45,000 Level Miles per year).

With the new system I will get 48 XP per trip (i.e. 144 XP for 3 return flights), which means that I will loose my Gold status (180 XP required) unless I travel more...

''As I understand everything remains the same for partner airlines, thus on a premium economy ticket with AF from Paris to Sao Paulo (generally about 1000 Euro without tax) I would earn around 8000 miles but the same flight with Alitalia will bag nearly 3 times that also in a higher economy class with Delta (H for instance generally weighs in at about 20% less than AF Premium but would still net more than double the return. '

I don't understand this point. Can you please explain?

As for Alitalia I understand that nothing will happen at least until April 2018 but also after then I am sure that the Italian government will not let it close and the negotiation with LH is going ahead.

In the past I was flying from Germany to Brazil around 3 times per year. When flying ECO no way to get silver by earning miles. But counting the flights, it is totally 12 qualiflying flights (e.g. BRE-AMS, AMS-GRU and return = 4 flights per trip). with 3 round trips still IVORY - with 4 round trips = 16 flights = silver!

With the new XP would it be easier to get silver?? If I calculated right, then I would earn with 3 round trips 102 XP, which would be silver! Is that right (5XP x 2 x 3 trips + 12XP x 2 x 3 trips).
Did anybody make similar calculations?

I have Elite Plus status for the number of legs rather than flown miles (around 40 legs/year), 80% with Alitalia.

I have seen Alitalia is not listed anymore in the "FlyingBlue logos": does this mean that AZ flights will not count anymore for achieving the status?

Personally I'm not that negative. I travel a lot to the US to cities either not served in directly flights or easy to travel to by layovers. Given I'm travelling from Antwerp via Amsterdam, lot of times I have 3 legs one way, 6 for a return flight. This earns fast and a quick calculation for flights to the west coast gives me about 3 flights and 1 European (happens at least month for me) to earn Platinum. That is faster than I can do it right now. On top, spending miles becomes much more attractive. Have you ever tried to book more than 2 BC tickets for one flight with the family. KLM/AirFrance?Delta just hasn't enough seats available to accommodate (or don't want to). In the new system with miles and cash it's entirely up to you how to book and spend miles and pay for the rest.

Bottom line, It's easier to get platinum if you travel in emea, but you get way less miles.
e.g. I travel frequently from florence to London.. 4 international short flights.. equal to 20XP (4x5P) = 6.67% towar platinum..
before was (best case economy full) 3000 Qualifying miles, so 4.21% toward platinum.. so it's a 50% increase.
but mileage sucks... I got a ticket to seattle for 900€.. and i got 10.040 miles, with this program i would have get 7.200 miles.. so 30% less.. same for the short flights...

I use miles only to upgrade to business with AF/KLM.. I wonder if switching to Delta is an option.. Miles&More is a rip off..

it seems there is an interesting note on another website.. if I fly with a partner, I'll keep earning miles under the previous scheme.. but what about XP? seems that you won't get any if you fly with delta..

the interesting thing is that for flights between europe and US, you can buy the same ticket as delta or airfrance/KLM.. and here the dilemma.. if you purchase with Delta.. no XP but probably more miles for your bucks.. if you book AF.. less miles but you get XP... that's.. interesting..

what do you think?

ok.. so .. I had a chat with a FB representative.. this is what he told me:

1) you will earn XP also with delta and other partners. see here:
https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com/?FB_Country=IE&FB_Language=EN

2) yes for a coast to coast US flight in economy.. with delta you will get only 2 XP!!!! (that's BAD!!)
3( he told me that despite the ticket is Delta or AF.. the count for the miles is the same (euros multiplied by your status)..

we'll see.. I'll have already 220 XP points as 1st of april thanks to qualifying miles conversion so I'm not scared for this year.. I guess they were generous to keep people in the program.