Delta Air Lines is launching a noteworthy new route to South America out of New York.
Continue reading: Delta Launching New York To Buenos Aires Route
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
In before Tim Dunn tells us that this is, like everything Delta does, simply genius.
Kinda surprised this route wasn't launched before, due to AR's low frequencies and in general uncompetitiveness against AA, leaving them with majority of market share. Even before the LATAM takeover, I thought DL operated this route
Same 767-4 that they fly on the ATL:EZE route. Given the aircraft I'll take the shorter flight out of ATL. Was hoping this would be on one of Delta's pre-owned A350's instead. I'd fly north go go south to get the A350 instead of the 767. This will probably price out at well over 500,000 miles R/T in DeltaONE if the ATL based route is any indication.
Dunno if they’ve had to conserve widebodies like AA, but Delta also tends to be the most cautious entering new markets. Until they see more demand to LATAM gateways they likely won’t add additional flights for that purpose
I believe LATAM is launching a flight from Bogota to Orlando (MCO), which will offer connections onto Delta's somewhat bigger presence at MCO compared to other cities. I read an article about this which stated this was a result of their partnership (can't remember if that was an interpretation from the author or a statement from the airline).
Delta also launched flights from MIA to MCO recently, which I believe was as a result of this partnership.
I think we might see LATAM launch a flight to ATL or Delta increase its service to GRU from ATL (hopefully to an A350) this next summer.
Delta tried JFK-EZE before and AA doubled its flights until DL left. I am betting that DL's stronger position in Latin America partly because of Latam (although Argentina is not part of the DL-LA joint venture) and its stronger position in NYC (and AA's weaker position) give DL the guts to try again.
As for why DL hasn't grown more in Latin America, Latam just exited chapter 11 restructuring a couple years ago. Also, Europe opened up post-covid earlier than S. America and has been much stronger. There will be more longhaul routes between DL and LA but both know the context in which they are working. The real advancement of the DL-LA JV will be when DL adds its own widebody service from MIA to S. America as well as narrowbodies to Central America (outside of the DL JV) and that is certainly coming.
As for the comment about preferring the ex-Latam A350s. DL's 764s have direct aisle Delta One and premium select while the ex-Latam A350s won't have it until Delta reconfigures them. DL just announced that it has selected Airbus to reconfigure the aircraft so it is likely coming.
Delta's original A350s are stretched thin until Delta gets 6 more in 2024. The 764 is probably better sized for starting a new route of this length anyway.
it would be far preferable if you actually contributed to the discussion instead of worrying about what someone else posts
This seems like a missed opportunity by Delta. They should have added service to Lima, its a bigger market from New York, since there is significant tourism demand.
In the alternative, the aircraft routing is horrid for this route. The plane sits on the ground the whole day in Buenos Aires. Delta could have added Seoul service from JFK to provide a getaway via their SkyTeam partner to Asia. Delta is particularly weak in Asia and South America and they missed the mark again.
Finally Delta is adding a 4th daily Austin flight in June, and a 5th daily Fort Laurderdale next winter. Delta has been so slow adding capacity domestically from NYC its about time!
About that tourist demand to Lima, umm it might have recently dropped just a little bit…
If I recall correctly JFK-UIO is actually the busiest air route that doesn’t have a direct flight anywhere so perhaps that would be a better flight for DL to add than LIM. Also, a direct DL flight to MDE is far overdue.
correction... Latam exited bankruptcy just a couple months ago.
And, because Argentina is not part of the DL-LA joint venture and AR is a relatively low quality carrier, DL will focus its efforts to expand in Latin America there first.
The likely bottom line of the DL - LA JV is that DL and LA will split MIA and JFK as well as Brazil because of its size, DL will add service to countries that are not part of the JV such as Central America and Argentina, and LA will add new flights to non-hub cities such as Boston and Florida outside of MIA. LA will be stronger on its own metal to western S. America while DL will be stronger to eastern S. America.
In time, DL will probably encourage AM and LA to increase their cooperation.
You're missing GRU-BOS nonstop on a LA B787 as a hub-hub market. Or LA hub to DL "key market" or whatever DL is calling Boston these days.
It would be far preferable (but less amusing, I admit) if your posts were less routinely predictably slavishly sycophantic to Delta.
Agree 100%. They’re very cautious but then you look at AA and they seems to add routes haphazardly with no strategy behind it. Then they rescind months later.
A balance between the two carriers’ approach would be ideal.
all you have to do is debate whatever you think is factually wrong or to conclusions with which you disagree.
It really isn't too hard to focus on the topic instead of other users.
Tim Dunn, it's as if you happened upon the internet yesterday.
Commenting isn't a job, there's no task list to be followed, there will be no performance reviews.
Your posts amuse me in their predictable slavish Delta sycophancy. Alerting others to their impending slavish sycophancy, so they can discount them as they wish, also amuses me.
Tim- That you constantly fall for his bait with bitter defensiveness:
A) Keeps him going.
B) Kinda proves his point.
the fact that he and a few others keep whining about what someone - anyone - does and do it over and over again even while I keep commenting proves HIS/HER strategy is not working.
Ben needs to delete this string of replies because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and to start cleaning out comments that do nothing except create the divisiveness that you claim I foster and yet this string of comments is all about.
I commented on the topic at hand above.
I don’t understand the author’s following comment:
“I can’t help but find it interesting how Delta hasn’t significantly increased its presence in Latin America since acquiring a stake in LATAM.”
If he’s asking why Delta doesn’t have more routes from the US to S. America that seems to be at odds with and competing against its own investment in LATAM.
Agreed. I read somewhere else this is going to be a year-round flight. I would think it would be a seasonal for the southern summer (Buenos Aires gets quite cold in Jun-Aug; its climate is a mirror of Atlanta). Delta could instead run 2 daily flights to Europe (especially leisure destinations) instead of this.
Tim, you've become a huge laughing stock for anyone that reads these blogs. To put it in words you'd understand: it's time you accepted the facts.
Time to pack it up and save any face you have left.
I think it’s a good move for DL. I also can understand “baby steps” as the airlines figure things out. They had to start somewhere. I think it’s great for SkyTeam as a whole. We’ll patiently wait to see how this plays out. I don’t think it’s harmful for AA to have a little competition in Latin America.
To the folks pooh-poohing tourist demand to Lima right now, that's very short term thinking. It will bounce back soon enough. I lived in Lima during the height of Sendero Luminoso's targeting of foreign tourists. Tourists would be attacked, demand would drop for a couple of weeks, then bounce right back. Over and over. Tourist demand to Peru is quite inelastic.
while this article is about Buenos Aires, Delta has long used a widebody on its ATL-LIM route and is adding the ex-Latam A350s (referenced below) to the route this spring. Delta has long chased the cargo demand and the A350 is the biggest airplane Delta has both in cargo and passenger capacity. I would strongly bet that DL and LA are connecting passengers to/from each other's flights at LIM as well.
again, though, Argentina is not part of the DL-LA joint venture and LA has a smaller presence in Argentina so DL's JFK-EZE will operate much more on the basis of what DL can do that what is the case in the other major economies of S. America where LA can help DL and vice versa.
Its a big boom in tourism going to Argentina now after covid. It will explode in 2023-2024. Also great way for us europeans to transfer at JFK eg AMS-JFK-EZE
The fact is that the DL-LA partnership is taking off very slowly. Most surprising is the lack of LA service to ATL. But also fares are not integrated, i.e. it‘s often difficult or impossible to combine DL and LA in one ticket.
I think the sudden divorce from AA and equally sudden partnership with DL was not well thought through.
just a reminder that joint ventures are a sensitive topic with Delta pilots who are voting on a new contract and will very likely end up w/ the first new contract among the big 4 after the company agreed to significant changes that require Delta to grow its international network much more quickly than they have in the past but to measure what Delta is doing on a global rather than just regional basis.
It just might be that Latam's recent exit from bankruptcy and DL's long-term focus on growth rather than jumping into something for a short-term gain will result in far more in the long run.
Delta doesn't fly Miami to S. America on its own metal which is a far more valuable market than Atlanta to S. America other than the thousands of passengers that Delta connects from all over the country. The fact that Delta is boosting connecting service at Miami specifically to put more passengers on LA flights in MIA says they are taking it slow enough to get it right.
You know what they say, don’t feed the troll(s), a few people post like every other forum out there to try and get a reaction, if they really wanted to make a positive contribution then they wouldn’t hide as guests.
Re: the aircraft sitting on the ground all day at EZE, I think that’s pretty typical of all flights into deep Latin America (EZE, GRU, SCL), as they’re usually red eyes both down and back. Despite Argentina’s decades of economic woes, EZE does tend to perform well, at least for AA, so DL is probably thinking the juice is worth the squeeze to let the jet sit for the day on the ramp, especially given their partnership with LA.
Santiago SCL isn't "deep" South America? Otherwise I agree, LATAM partnership is mostly wasted.
Lol, if anything, the dartboard strategy was pioneered (and still faithfully followed) by DL. Just wait a year or two and check back to see how many routes are gone. If anything, many of these routes will be gone once the B767s are gone.
LOL. DL from MIA to South America? Can’t wait to see DL being given a run for their money there! This whole DL investment will turn out to be a dumpster fire.. wait, oh it already did once; so I guess, once again…
Delta also re-added JFK-GIG northern hemisphere winter seasonal service which will be part of the Latam joint venture
The numbers maybe there but will the yield be? It is easier to sell a business class ticket to a European capital city verse a South American one.
My dad was an avionics tech and inspector for UR/PI/US
I was res and an analyst for PI/US
My son is a maintenance scheduler for DL and in college to be a DL pilot.
I am thrilled at this news…since I live in EZE. Buena suerte y bienvenidos.
While timing was bad, DL(and UA for that matter) will never match AA in Latin American ( the third largest carrier behind LATAM and Avianca). Like DL in NYC and UA in SFO got the PAN AM routes, so did AA get the Eastern / Pan AM South, Central American and Caribbean routes and built a reputation of reliability. Big questions will Avianca/GOL new entity lead to OneWorld moving UA to only Azul and AA getting back at LATAM since the new entity will be larger.
What makes Aerolíneas Argentinas not competitive? Interesting how you just discredit it like that. Just curious as I’ve never flown them.
Delta never said its goal was or is to overtake AA in Latin America and it is highly unlikely that they ever could do it.
This announcement is about JFK-EZE and, as was later confirmed, JFK-GIG, both of which together will match what AA offers on a route basis from JFK to deep S. America. Add in the Latam JV just from NYC and DL overtakes both AA and UA from NYC
And if there is a "target" for DL and Latam to overtake it is UA which cannot match what DL and Latam offer on a combined basis.
It was actually UA that bought Pan Am's Latin America network, operated a MIA hubette for a period of time and could not compete against AA - and pulled it down. Since that time decades ago, AA has had a US carrier monopoly to S. America and most of Latin America even considering joint ventures.
DL instantly gains access to the MIA-Latin America market through Latam and they are the 2nd largest foreign carrier at MIA while DL is the 2nd largest domestic carrier.
Latam is not going back to AA; they cannot have a joint venture precisely because of AA's dominance in MIA, the largest single carrier gateway to Latin America.
Everything DL and LA do from MIA will cut into AA's dominance. As soon as DL starts adding flights on its own metal including to destinations in the Caribbean and Central America that are not part of the JV - as well as Argentina- then DL starts eating away at AA's top markets as no carrier has done since AA bought Eastern's network and started very successfully building it into a massive franchise - but also the only region where AA is dominant.
The DL/LA JV massively rearranges carrier positions in Latin America and you would be kidding yourself if you don't think AA execs haven't spent many long meetings thinking through their strategies.
DL has proven in NYC and LA that they can win over top markets where AA was once a major player. If they start doing that in MIA, AA's position in the international market is significantly weakened given how weak AA is relative to DL and UA across both the Atlantic and Pacific.
AR's product and service is simply not in line with any of the big 3 US global carriers.
Fuck both of these people Tim, post what you will.
If they don't like it, they can bypass.