Here’s some good news for Boeing, and airlines, and… maybe the traveling public? I dunno, I guess we’ll see.
Continue reading: FAA Easing Restrictions, Will Let Boeing Decide If 737 MAXs & 787s Are Safe
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
This is great news.
Boeing is turning the corner from decades of mismanagement.
The FAA cannot let them have the unguarded freedoms they once had but it was a given that Boeing would turn itself around the US government would ensure that Boeing produces high quality products.
Now, let's see the 777X and MAX 7 and 10 certified.
Well, here we go: back to Stock-Price Safety Standards.
Happy flying everyone!
You are ignoring new management and the cost that a future crash would inflict to Boeing's reputation. For all the people complaining, the FAA allowed Boeing to get in its failed state before requiring action be taken.
So the FAA had a better reputation when Boeing was taking short cuts under previous administrations?
I like the idea of effectively moving the FAA focus "upstream" from safety certification of finished planes to the process of making them in the first place.
Cynicism in general is probably justified in the context of "government that doesn't believe in regulating the market unless it's to punish importers removes a regulatory obstacle to a US company with an international rival," but I genuinely like the theoretical basis of this move. Whether it'll be nearly as sensible in practice is another matter...
It has always gone well when a company is left to monitor itself. It's like I am living in a bizarro universe.
YAY! More beta testing on live passengers!
They should do the same thing for the 777X to show that this administration really is pro business.
It was taking shortcuts under and originally certified the 737 MAX under *checks notes* Trump's first term.
@Brian W
>You are ignoring new management and the cost that a future crash would inflict to Boeing's reputation
Just saying, COVID-19 did far more damage to Boeing's stock price than the two 737 MAX crashes did. When only two major aircraft suppliers exist, and both exist with government support, it's kind of hard for a crash or two to irreparably damage their business. The government *should* be watching like a hawk to ensure corners aren't cut and the resulting products aren't going to lawndart with 150 people on board.
Exactly. The MAX7 test aircraft were used for the Recertification efforts of the MAX8 following the Grounding. How it Didn’t get certifications itself during that period the biggest Blunder of all times.
If the Anti Ice work around procedures/exemption is fine for the MAX8 and MAX9 it should be fine for both the MAX7 and MAX10. It’s not like the pilots who already have flown the other two models are suddenly going to fine themselves dumbfounded on the other two models.
Elect a clown, get a circus. Except this time, when there’s an issue, the White House will help Boeing cover it up.
What a great idea. Boeing has amply demonstrated that they're clearly capable of delivering absolutely safe planes despite the vast issues with every single plane they've developed since McDonnell Douglass moved the HQ away from the engineers in Seattle who kept complaining about deadly safety shortcuts. In fact, all industries should be likewise able to forego federal scrutiny any just decide for themselves when there are enough safety measures in place. What could possibly go wrong?
It is stunning how few people here understand the value of Boeing to the US and, more importantly the lessons that the feds and Boeing learned from their failures.
No rational person could believe that Boeing's actions over the past 2 decades have enriched the company; in fact, the opposite has happened. Boeing has lost enormous amounts of money by failing to do what should be job 1 - design and deliver high quality products.
Boeing has strong leadership and they are on the upswing. Airbus held steady during Boeing's worst days of the past 2 decades and both have more than enough business to keep them busy; Airbus just has handedly growth to have a much larger share of global commercial aircraft because of Boeing's missteps.
I couldn't be happier to see Boeing get back on track and so should not just every American but also every aviation fan.
I think you misunderstand the idea of Boeing's previous leadership in your second paragraph. No rational person could believe that the actions enriched the company, yes. But they were taken anyway because they enriched executives and shareholders at that time. Consequences for the company itself were NOT part of their calculation, so long as they could leave or sell in time to avoid criminal charges or clawbacks.
I understand completely how Boeing's former execs enriched themselves at the expense of the company.
But do you really think those people want to be remembered as the people who destroyed a great company? They thought they could cut costs and fail to innovate and Boeing would still be fine - and they were hopelessly wrong.
But whatever happened in the past isn't relevant to what Boeing and the FAA is doing today; Boeing is rebuilding with leadership that understands that there are no quick fixes. the FAA knows it has to let Boeing do what Boeing has done well for decades while still doing its (the FAA's) job of making sure that IT is the regulator.
Boeing and the FAA made that relationship work well for years.
Boeing will turn around and that is good for everyone.
Why should "every American" be happy to see this?
A greedy company that cut corners, ignored employees warnings and punished / fired whistle blowers. The end result: Planes falling out of the sky, door plugs blowing off, lithium ion batteries setting planes ablaze. And here we are turning them loose on their word they'll behave?
Boeing is a textbook example of how putting profit over safety results in real and reputational harm. There are people at Boeing who should be in jail for their negligence.
"You are ignoring new management"
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just experienced enough to know that when you relax regulatory oversight on an entity with a financial incentive to skirt those regulations, in exchange for short-term executive remuneration, then it WILL eventually do so, to the maximum extent it can get away with.
It doesn't matter what empty suit you put in there, because very few people get to (and no one STAYS at) the helm of a multi-billion dollar publicly-held corporation, unless they're willing to behave in that kind of manner.
That's the corporate history of (checks notes) every public corporation ever.
While I can understand your feelings, I would point out the tragedies and fiasco were the direct result of the bean counter philosophy brought in by Harry Stonecipher, second only to Jack Welch for destroying companies.
Boeing is back to an engineer driven company, in the spirit of T
A. Wilson
@Tim Dunn
>But do you really think those people want to be remembered as the people who destroyed a great company?
I think they got so much money out of it that they don't care. It's not like they'll be heckled the rest of their lives for it. Very few Americans could tell you who Boeing's current or previous CEOs were and even fewer could identify them on the street, much less the rest of the C-suite.
@TD,
A very thoughtful and accurate summary.
Boeing and the FAA failed to uphold the first rule, safety. New leadership at Boeing, an engineer vs bean counter, has turned the ship around. Of course there’s always more work to be done. However the changes instituted have proven there is a material and seismic change in the way Boeing is doing business. It’s time the feds, who will never admit their own failures, let Boeing do certifications again.
The fox (Boeing) guarded the hen house for many decades. It all went south after the bean counters and McD executives came to town. The engineering culture was trashed. It’s back.
Those that led Boeing during the 737 MAX disaster made it clear they didn’t care about the long term interests of the company. Only the short term of large shareholders. They transformed Boeing from a vaunted aerospace engineering company to a petty financial engineering company.
thank you, pilot.
and to those including above that want to live in the past, it is precisely because Boeing is fixing the problems it created under poor previous managers that the future is brighter.
And Americans should cheer for a company that injects trillions of dollars into the US economy whether you think they benefit you or not.
Is it good, definitely not.
Is it a surprise, also no. Consider the trustworthy of regulators recently.
It's been happening everywhere.
FAA and Boeing
FCC and Jimmy
FDA and Tylenol
DOJ and Epstein
This keeps happening....
Stop treating the public as if they're stupid. Or maybe they really are?
The newest versions on Boeing aircraft are safe until there is another fatal crash caused by a design flaw hidden by a bean counter with no engineering background. The delivery schedule will always override pouring through the aircraft with one final once over by the top quality engineers at Boeing.
American executives are rewarded for short term results. How soon do you think they will backslide to juice their profits since it will be left to their successors to try to pick up the pieces.
Last time i checked they got bailed out of criminal charges and killed a bunch of people with their brilliant products. Id rather have not learned those lesson the hard way.
I'm not flying Boeing at all if I can help it. Luckily, my airlines of choice almost exclusively use Airbus. At this point, my trust in anything American is at an all time low.
It is the considered opinion from the right side of the pond, that those who believe that Boeing will MAGA, are delusional. Boeing is only one of far too many American corporations, run by numpties who are doing little more than extracting the urine for their own enrichment.
This is exactly the type of “regulatory rollback” that the administration promised. Whether passengers survive was not included as part of that promise.
How does this compare to what happens with Airbus with EASA?
And Bombardier with the Canadian equivalent?
Ah, this is an aspect worth understanding better.
Car companies have to get each new model certified by independent testing companies?
But not each vehicle made.
With the 737Max the complaint was that the FAA had trusted Boeing too much.
I understood that was about type certification, rather than certification of each aircraft.
Or perhaps in that instance it was about Boeing self-certifying that the new model was not really new?
Th ability to make that determination should not be delegated from the FAA.
All the people willing to trust Boeing (or any company in this situation) are idiots. At some point, Boeing will have the opportunity save huge piles of money by following lesser safety standards. The company will evaluate that opportunity as a business decision and decide whether the risk to Boeing’s bottom line if something goes wrong (again) outweighs the guaranteed savings. We need an agency whose primary concern is consumer safety making these calls, not a corporation for whom it’s merely a cost of doing business.
This is asinine. Peter Greenberg's radio show had several episodes a couple of years ago about this and how this practice puts everyone who flies at risk. It seems nearly every week there's another story about a plane that had to return to the airport because an engine caught fire or some other very unusual situation occurred. It's not weather related or lightning, but actual issues with air pressure or engines. I've flown since 1985, 10+ years every week and I've never had an incident the likes I'm hearing about now. Again, this is asinine that profits over people are more important once again.