American Airlines is getting some very bad press in Brazil, after a downgrade that appeared to be handled very poorly.
Continue reading: American Downgrades, Threatens, Embarrasses, Brazilian Celebrity
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
$300 compensation? For real?
Premium economy is around twice the economy fare.
FAIL
Well, with FAs like Donna, nothing surprises me anymore. The airline will — at most — issue some generic apology and nothing will change.
Truly terrible optics even for American. Say, doesn't American have to offer some reasonable compensation for involuntarily downgrading a passenger?
This is terrible.
@ben, I recently got downgraded from EY F to biz at the gate due to a inop seat at the gate. They offered me $600. Thoughts?
This happened to me (in reverse) last year on Qatar out of SFO. I was seated in my Q Suite ready for an amazing experience when I was told that I had to move back to economy. The flight was over sold and because I was “on miles” I needed to move back to accommodate a paying passenger. I elected to be off loaded. Not fun and left a bad taste in my mouth.
Im curious what American'w response to this would be.... hopefully this leads to an operational change going forward. (or am I being too charitable towards American?? )
Everyone made a bad decision.
AA training JFK agents the MIA way.
AA gate agent handling the situation.
Actress giving up her seat for $300.
If one lesson you take from David Dao, if you're removed from your seat after you buckle up, settle for $140 MILLION.
That's 000,000 more zeros behind what she got.
I don’t mean to rant Ben and readers, but American Airlines has a nasty structure at all levels. There are several good employees within the carrier but they are like rare gems. Morale is low and many of these ground supervisors are on a power trip. Additionally Brazil has several legal protections for its citizens against actions like this and it’s sad that the action against the carrier is gonna be taken from a foreign country. She paid for her seat. Literally it’s giving Dr. Dao vibes.
This would be a perfect time to write an article on what person should do if they found themselves in this situation?
I was in C on a recent narrow-body AC flight, MCO-YYZ. While still parked at the gate, a woman in an economy bulkhead middle seat made it known that she had a problem (handicap?) with her legs, and the seat was forcing her to sit at an awkward angle that was deeply uncomfortable. She was apparently complaining — if quietly — to the F.A.s and check-in crew, and our takeoff was being delayed. The crew asked if there was anyone in the forward cabin who was willing to downgrade and, after a moment of thought, I volunteered. It was amazing how many people, crew and passengers, both thanked me and said they wouldn't have done it.
I understand that there are people who will say I was being a sap, and yes, the woman should have bought a better seat rather than manipulating her way up front, but it was a relatively short flight and if I could diffuse a potentially tense situation and help the flight get moving with a small sacrifice, I was ok with that.
The more important point is how Air Canada then treated me. The crew made sure I got the business class meal and service, and the head FA promised me Air Canada would make it right. It was a matter of trust and I believed her...and Air Canada came through. Within 48 hours, I received a full refund for the flight.
I continue to fly Air Canada, because I believe they will treat me with kindness and I know they live up to their word.
In the case described in @Ben's post, AA shot themselves in the foot for no reason. All they had to do was treat their passengers with respect, and be a little generous with the person who was downgraded. Besides being the right thing to do, they would be receiving an entirely different type of attention.
Reading this blog makes me feel super lucky to live in an Alaska hub to be honest
The American Airlines crew at JFK is pathetic. I had to check a bag due to liquids and luckily I gave myself time. There was a long line which shouldn't be unusual especially with passengers on that evening's flight to Delhi where passengers often check more baggage. For the estimates 200 or so people in line, there were were around 8 agents present but only 3 were actually processing bags. The others were standing around chatting (I would have presumed on their break?) but it wasn't a good look. I'm glad I had arrived early so that I didn't miss my flight but there were some people in line who were cutting it pretty close to departure. The staff couldn't have cared less. The culture is broken and it starts at the top. I wrote about my experience in the post-flight survey and I told them they could contact me about my experience. That was in early December and crickets. Wouldn't hold my breath.
What she mentions at the end of her video is interesting. She asked what the criteria was for selecting who to downgrade. She was told they picked the person who had paid the least for their ticket OR a woman traveling by herself based on a record locator. She was that unlucky woman. Her assumption is that they assume a woman traveling without a man who would fight for her rights would be more willing to accommodate the downgrade. She arrived in Brazil on International Women’s Day with a bad taste in her mouth given not only her experience, but also the response she received regarding the criteria used to select the unlucky passenger.
I don’t believe the story. Simple as that…too much of the situation is against standard protocol, especially as it was US originating.
I’d go so far to say it’s a ludicrous story.
But I love Ben’s blog otherwise!!!
Here lies your problem.
If you have to share the check in line with 200 more people, don't expect the airline to contact you back.
If your name is on the list to use the area behind the doors, you will be contacted within a week or two.
If you were MIALonghorn you would definitely believe it.
The only thing I don't believe is why she's not flying business or first.
She's actually quite well known and not a D-list.
Not much you can do - the gestAApo cabin crew will summon the stormtroopers to drag you from the aircraft if you refuse to comply.
AA has many problems and they all start at the top. Accountability comes to mind with this issue, starting with the broken seat that couldn't be occupied. 1st, was it reported by the previous flight crew, and if so, 2nd, why wasn't it immediately fixed? Who's accountable here? It's hard to imagine Emirates, Qatar, or Singapore Airlines letting an expensive business class seat be broken to the point that its unable to be occupied. Seems like no one is minding the store!
I lost status with American years ago and generally avoid flying them nowadays. This flight just happened to be the only one that worked with my schedule. I knew it would be a crap experience but it was so laughably bad it just reinforced my rationale for not flying them more often.
I’m not a Portuguese speaker but I am a native Spanish speaker and the two are very similar. “por bem ou por mal,” sounds a lot like a threat. It literally means for good or for bad, but in practice it does not mean whether you like it or not. It is more along the lines of either you move voluntarily or we will move you by force. It’s what it means in Spanish slang anyway.
Matches my recent experience on an AA flight from Brazil.
The FA's were rude and obnoxious and I was threatened with removal if I wouldn't immediately relinquish my FAA approved car seat despite having paid for the extra seat and had already boarded.
It's very simple. Refuse to leave your assigned and paid for seat. If they wish to arrest you for that, so be it. Let them. They won't. If they forcibly remove you from a flight which you paid for, had a seat assigned, and had already been seated, there is nothing they can do that is outside what will become a David Dao situation.
They just latched on to a woman who they assumed was traveling alone and decided she was the chosen one for ease and intimidation.
As a side note, this has happened twice to me over the years. I firmly said, "no." There was a little push back - but when it was clear that I was not getting up from my seat or even discussing it further they gave up.
I haven't flow AA since I was like 10.
But I have flown AC a lot for someone who lives in the US and doesn't travel for a living (I am dual citizen), and in every class. I don't get the constant complaints from people about AC. No the food isn't top notch nor is the equipment. But service has always been good and IFE selection one of the best.
I want to add this. In defense of AA potentially. If it comes out that she was an operational upgrade to Premium economy that is a whole different story. That changes everything.
What's the difference in price between F and biz? I bet it's more than $600...
I agree. I contacted them via email two weeks ago with a specific breakdown, and have yet to hear back. Still waiting from them. It's not like you can upgrade from J to F regularly or at all for $600.
@Heath Haha. You just summed up how it is with U.S. airlines. Nobody pays attention to these things.
@LALonghorn not ludicrous at all since this is something that is quite common on American Airlines as mentioned by other commenters here though out the life of Ben’s blog.
I also had a similar experience on United, two years ago. I had paid for premium economy, but when I boarded, my seat was occupied. The flight attendant looked into the matter and learned that the other passenger had been offered a cash upgrade at the gate to premium economy. A United ground staff manager boarded the plane and started yelling at me, the flight attendants were very surprised by his behavior.
He was threatening me that he would “send me to the back of economy”. I was extremely embarrassed, as many passengers looked at what was happening. I wanted to get off the flight, but I was worried that I would have to deal with this man, as he was United ground staff.
One passenger ended up missing the flight, and I was moved to their premium economy seat. The flight attendants and lead purser were extremely apologetic. Offering me business class amenity sets and extra food. They also promised to report the situation to United.
After my trip, I contacted United, and they immediately offered me $650 for the horrible experience.
Since that flight, I’ve never had such a bad experience again, but have had several issues on United. Broken seats, forgotten special meals, etc.
There is not much to be done on board the aircraft as it could have been resolved before boarding. How do you know whether she hasn’t purchsed a last minute upgrade, hence why she was selected? If it wasn’t her then someone else. Brazilians, and Americans, share one thing in that they are both drama queens/ kings. Indeed it was unpleasant however the crew have a right to recommodate passengers. “celebrities” and “ influencers” often post what’s often not always accurate.
It's basically "we're going to move you, the easy way or the hard way". It's a very obvious threat, that implies forceful removal of the passenger. Absolutely insane behavior.
Proof, if proof was ever needed why AA is rated only 71st in the SkyTrax World Airlines Rankings.
Clearly AA are planning to fail rather than failing to plan.
This seems to be an issue in North America that I cannot get my head around.
I have been a duty manager for a large European airline for over twenty years now.
Downgrades have to happen all the time - operational reasons such as aircraft changes with different configurations to broken seats to overselling.
But I can say hand on heart that in over twenty years I have not personally experienced nor heard of any of my colleagues experience a situation where AFTER boarding a commercial customer was downgraded. Never.
If this situation happened at my airline this is what would happen:
1. On boarding a business class passenger discovers their seat is in operable.
2. Inoperable seats can be manually reclined by the crew. All business class seats are required by the FAA/EASA to have this feature.
3. We would first look for a non rev passenger (guaranteed on pretty much every flight) within the SAME cabin and swap them.
4. Failing that, we would offer the customer in business service recover (compensation) and advise them they will be able to have a flat bed during the flight but it will have to be manually adjusted.
Indeed, AA flight attendants should be dealt with the same way as Egyptian street scammers; a firm "No", then tune out and completely ignore any further interactions.
If you engage, you lose.
Maybe, but why victim blame and bend over backwards to defend AA? If there's a good reason, AA has their own PR and lawyers on payroll to do that, and so far AA hasn't offered up any good reasons.
There's also a big difference between that "someone" being told to get out of their seats, and "someone" offering up their seat due to a public offer to downgrade (for a fee).
Service culture is absolutely terrible in NA. Maybe FAs just need a tip to provide good service /s
Even better, say "I am happy to move for $2000 - cash, not voucher" - i.e. an amount that is not ridiculously large, but one would be happy to have accepted.
Half the time, other people will then want cash and offer themselves for lower amounts.
She was embarrassed, threatened, really? Anyway, we do not have the whole story for sure. Now, she is a celebrity? Because she has followers? Funny times we live in. You'd imagine such a world star would pay business class...
Getting arrested is not a straightforward option for foreigners. It means a likely visa revocation and ban on any future visas. If she has any family or business interests in the US, or both which is very possible for a Brazilian actress, then this would not be something she would do lightly.
This is what happens when you grade people for on time push back. It takes time to negotiate and it is faster just to wield a big club.
I fully agree.
The way some NA airlines handle service failures is atrocious.
Situations where passengers have to be downgraded for one reason or another do happen, but if such a situations arises it needs to be handled with tact and courtesy.
Bullying and public (PA) shaming a passenger is a sign of a rotten service culture.
What is a passenger going to do with a $300 voucher (difference on AA between Main Cabin and Premium Economy of that route typically $200) on an airline that she will probably avoid like the plague in the future.
And about 2 1/2 hours earlier a there’s a Delta 767 with Premium select on that route.
I haven't flown these routes but it's entirely consistent with United out of Sao Paulo, when the passengers might be worse. You can't really assign blame as an outsider, reliably, to anyone involved who's bound for Rio. How does one succeed these days in any career with exposure to the people dominating society in Brazil?
There may be another side to this story. However, improving the flyer experience at AA will take money and so far management has clearly shown they will not spend money/invest for this purpose. They still cling onto the idea that their network is the airline's competitive strategy and that coach passengers are not something the airline should care about. Yesterday flying MIA/RDU the boarding gate indicates the flight is ready to board in 5 minutes even though the inbound had just landed and not one word from the gate agent. We get to RDU 50 minutes late and wait another 20 minutes for a crew to marshal the a/c to the gate.
I suppose what this really is, is a fight between Brazilians. And then on a bigotry pretext, a woman is trying to drag others in.
Not without precedent.
Exactly the issue here. Metrics guide actions. If the most import metric is on time departure, customer satisfaction drops off and actions like this will occur.
What is your point here? There were other witnesses that can confirm her story. It has nothing to do with her being a « celebrity » or whether she could afford a business class seat or not. This should not be allowed on any class. This is basically bullying and threatening people. Sadly I am not surprised, AA has always been a very sh!ty company.
A lawsuit for forcibly removing a valid passenger from an aircraft against their will and after taking their seat is equally obtainable by a foreign passenger. In which case I am certain any ban or visa issues would also be removed.
I’m actually booked on QR next week SFO-DOH-JNB (using AA Advantage Miles). But I do have a backup plan. Let’s see if this works out this time around.
So the aiirline needed the premium economy sets and asked her to move, what is your point ?
Wow! Below Ryanair and EasyJet - https://www.worldairlineawards.com/worlds-top-100-airlines-2024/
Terrifying.
What a stupid comments!
So, because she was in Economy Premium she can be treated like a trash? I really hope you're rich enough to say something stupid like that...
Isn't this a 77W route? With this sort of crew behavior, one has to wonder whether there was an open F seat that the J pax could have been given (or nonrev who could have been offloaded), but the crew chose this instead in order to avoid the J pax getting an upgrade "for free".
I can always rely on OMAAT comment sections to deliver the worst possible take on a story and today you take the honours. Congratulations on having an IQ lower than your BMI.
AA apologized and reached out to the passenger.
She is a public person, a fairly known actress, with no scandal or any crazy thing that may hurt her image. AA crew announced to all passengers that if she didn’t collaborate they would have to take everyone out of the plane. She would be responsible for bothering the trip of the whole airplane. Everybody on economy class (pretty much all the plane) was very upset on her. That was how she was forced to move to the Economy seat. I personally had a really bad situation when I was flying business on American Airlines 16 years ago, they threatened to arrest me for exchanging seats with someone from Economy just for the take off as I wanted to be close to my niece that was little. So I know things like that can happen.
Hello, Ben. I am a brazilian and my blood boiled while hearing her story. This article got all the main points of her account correctly, but missed one right at the end of the video, which I'll translate for you now.
She said: "And to complete this "wonderful" story, during the flight, I went to talk the brazilian flight attendant and ask what were the criteria, because no one ever explained me anything. Why I was the chosen one? He said that the criteria were many, normally, but one of them was a cheaper fare or a woman traveling alone. My reservation was of a woman traveling alone. A woman traveling alone, that doesn't have a man besides her, to yell back, to impose himself. That's it. And just a small detail: the day I arrived was March 8th, International Women's Day. Is that good for you all?"
I honestly don't know what kind of training could lead to a cabin crew to treat someone like that, but whatever it is, it's broken under any scope of humanity. If American, or any other airline, thinks that this kind of treatment they need to increase their bottom line, it's time to invest more in high speed trains.
We need more competition instead of just 3 or 4 big carriers, and more importantly we need laws that set a minimum product level instead of allowing airlines to treat customers like cattle. We also need laws that mandate hefty compensation when airlines mess up.
Years ago 4 of us were on AA to Europe in Business Class and the FA came to our friend's seat and said his seat was needed and he was given a seat in the back of the plane.... It was a paid Biz seat--no explanation was given.... He was a very frequent flier.. As our friend was older and with heart issues- my husband gave him his seat in Biz and he went into the econ seat....Prob the last time we did AA -but tried it 2 years ago and after that experience ---never again.
I don’t know if this is ChatGPT hallucinating, but this is terrible, and stupid, and terribly stupid advice. You may be entitled to compensation for downgrades, etc. These are customer service issues.
Legally, you are not entitled to your class of service, you are entitled to your seat assignment, and you are not entitled to a seat. Refusing to move when told to do so by a crew member or ground staff will probably get you thrown off the flight. Refusing to leave when told to do so will get you arrested.
And yes that can easily get you on the airline no fly list as well as other ramifications like visa revocation. AA is a terrible airline, but following Antwerp’s advice is stupid, stupid, stupid.
Good thing we just elected an administration that is actively repealing existing consumer protections in other industries. I'm sure Elon and co will get right on this suggestion...
Fake story, purposefully omitted details and likely never even happened. Do better Evan!
more likely nonrevs in F, crew didn't want to displace one of their friends for a paying J customer...
It's happened to me too but 2010 ! What we have to do is due then for mistreatment ,and never fly American Airlines anymore !
Some people might claim your comment was written by a moron. I don't know you so I have no opinion.
They offered a $300.00 voucher to be used on a future trip with these shit airline ?They are really !They are like trump that offered $ to buy the porn star silence !American Airlines is not different from trump : Has money but,no values
Why accuse someone of a fake story? Do you have proof this was fake? It’s easy to talk but not show why this was fake. SMH…
She SAID SHE was told they picked the person who had paid the least for their ticket OR a woman traveling by herself based on a record locator.
I like the above better. Was she honest? Was there a legit misunderstanding? Did she mishear/mistranslate?
Stop saying the crew did this. The flight attendants have nothing to do with downgrades or upgrades. It is the ground employees duty. Plus, the criteria is computer based, just like when there is an oversale. The name is generated by the computer. Maybe the FA assisted by translating, but they don't have anything to do with the actual transaction.
I am not saying it was handle correctly, but wanted to add that note.
I agree there were better options for AA. Move non revs. Auction oft the move. But, never in the consideration should be the stardom of sex of a pax.
No, if first class seats are not sold, business is oversold and someone gets a free upgrade from business to first. Stop believing that story thst employees get first and business in every flight. It is rare.
With this poor service and the way American Airlines mistreat their passengers, soon the only ones boarding their planes will be the " Kamikazes terrorists
Any airline who does not hate their passengers like American Airlines does ,is a better option
Why do some of y'all make assumptions that she was the one to be downgraded, 'cause she was the "weakest link"!?
AA's 777-200, normally used on Flt 973, has 24 seats in Premium Eco.
If such a situation arises, the Gate Agent usually checks in the system if there are any status pax (KEY, EXP, PLT, GLD), disability/mobility-pax (ESAN, BLND, WCH, DPNA, etc.) or groups seated in this cabin. If so, they are less likely to be downgraded or split up!
So they check the remaining pax and one way to make a decision is to pick the person who is on the lowest fare, in their respective cabin...or on a mileage ticket?!
There is to much information missing to claim that she was chosen for this or that reason!
It seems somewhat surprising that no other passengers recorded any part of the transaction on their cell phones to post on social media, especially when a celebrity is involved.
You do you.
However, The captain of this flight was very clear to her that she was chosen for the simple reason she was a single woman without a traveling companion. Why is that? Because of course she would be the one least likely to resist. The reality is that she was actually in a very good position to resist. She booked her flight. Paid for it. Obtained a boarding pass. Boarded the flight. Took her seat. As well was a woman essentially booked alone. You honestly think they would forcibly remove her? No. They would not. I will dare under these circumstances for anyone to forcibly remove me from a seat that I paid for and took with the idea being that I had to be downgraded. Moving within the same cabin, fine. Downgrading me from an op/up or whatever....fine. But otherwise you will have to carry me off. And if you do, you can bet a lawsuit will be forthcoming and, in this case, given a jury trial hearing, AA will not fare well (no pun intended).
Trust me. It's happened to me and I have seen it with others. Just firmly say, "No." Nothing else. Do not get in a conversation. Do not move. Do not be bullied. They want to bring law enforcement on, have at it. The likelihood is that they will move on to someone else. This woman's worst mistake was getting into a conversation with them.
Antwerp, you have to understand this is a foreigner, latin american person, in a country with the current political climate that the US have. She was afraid of being put in a no-fly list or arrest somehow.
She's lucky she is famous in Brazil (and she's very rich, nobody understood why she wasn't in business class to start with but anyway) and this story took traction, otherwise it would be just another bad experience in a sea of them.
She is a celebrity, different countries exist and they have their own culture, art, music, media, and celebrities. You dense brick.
Later, during the flight, she asked one of the flight attendants why she had been chosen, and he explained that "a woman flying alone" was one of the reasons. It’s not a person flying alone; it’s a woman. It's unacceptable. This passage is in her video. I am a Portuguese speaker.
AA is paying for this on socials now. Brazilians are RUTHLESS on social media comment sections about their celebrities.
Yes, allow foreign carriers to fly domestic US routes... for all the damn deregulation that Trump is ordering, let this be on the top of the list.
It is truly disgusting the level of air travel service in the USA protected by "regulation" blocking foreign competition on US domestic routes.
American Airlines should be ashamed at how they handled this situation. Harassing over the PA system is criminal and dangerous. What a shame...
So you are saying this was pre-meditated by the AA systems to not ask for volunteers or otherwise handle this in a reasonable way? Incompetence and poor service are computerized? Not saying that is not the case, but if it is that might even be worse for AA.
Actually they didn’t offer her. After she went to economy after being coerced, they gave a voucher to her without even saying what it was.
Would that include the crew annoucing for the whole airplane passangers that the flight will not deppart because "that lady was refusing to cooperate" without informing the context of that cooperation? Telling people to shut up? The only ethical principle we have here is to the right to use the seat you paid for. All the rest is the disease of the low power and incopetence to deal with people with respect.
I agree downgrades happen, but the way it was handled... so poor, it definitely deserves a legal intermediation, the embarrassment, humiliation, making the whole flight being against her is an emotional abusive tactic, it makes you afraid, what if any out of control passenger decides to hit her? who will defend her if the flight crew made the whole flight against her? her physical integrity was at risk. Things can get so out of control, and the real and cultural meaning of "vai por bem ou vai por mal" is "you'll do it on your own or I will force you to do it against your will" which it can be understood as an emotional abuse and/or physical abuse by the oppressor, like grabbing her by the hand and dragging her all the way to the other seat, basically violence.
$300 is absurdly low, if she ever even wants to fly the airline again. On that route, the difference between economy and PE is more than $300... WTH is American doing here? Certainly not sticking to wanting to be a "more premium airline".