I often get questions from young readers who are still trying to decide what they want to do for their career, and they’ll often ask if I have any tips in terms of what lines of work they could pursue that involve a lot of travel.
It’s a fair question, and understandably, travel is a passion for many people. So the idea of getting paid to travel sounds awesome. However, I think there’s a more fundamental consideration.
Before I share my take, let me acknowledge that I’m perhaps the wrong person to be giving any sort of career advice, as I’ve taken an unconventional path (I’ve been a full time blogger for over 17 years), and I’m lucky everything worked out the way it did. However, as a kid, I certainly also asked myself the question of what job is best for travel (which I guess I sort of ended up getting… inadvertently?).
In this post:
There are lots of careers that involve frequent travel
If you’re starting your career and one of the main goals is to travel a lot, obviously there are some jobs that immediately come to mind. Management consulting, international sales, IT, etc., can all involve a lot of travel. Heck, being a flight attendant or pilot also involves a lot of travel.
I think perhaps the bigger question is what aspect of travel you find most appealing:
- Is the goal to just be on the road for as many days per year as possible?
- Is the goal to see as many places as you can, and actually have free time on the ground?
- Is the goal to get another party to simply fund your travel, and your pursuit of miles & points or elite status?
One other thing worth acknowledging for those pursuing careers that involve a lot of travel is that over the years, preferences change. If you’re young, maybe the thought of traveling sounds fun, and you think you’d never bore of that.
But being on the road can get exhausting. Life circumstances change. You might get married, might have kids, might have family members you want to care for, etc. What once seemed like a dream can very quickly become a challenge.
Business travel isn’t all it’s cracked up to be
I have a good friend who has the best travel policy imaginable, and is always allowed to fly in the top cabin (including first class) and stay at very nice hotels. In theory that sounds pretty amazing, right? Well, what’s his travel actually like?
During a recent month, he took three business trips — two were day trips to Kansas City on a regional jet. One was an international trip in first class, where he was gone from home for 24 hours — he flew from New York to Frankfurt, had a meeting, flew from Frankfurt to London, had a meeting, and flew from London back to New York on the evening flight. While someone else paid for his $12,000 ticket, that’s not a trip I’m jealous of!
I think this really gets at the gist of the reality of business travel. If you’re really into travel, it sounds amazing to travel on someone else’s dime, but you’re not going to be spending endless hours strolling around Paris or Tokyo.
Instead, you may end up in a situation where you’re primarily flying economy domestically, staying in hotels in business parks off interstates, and spending all day in conference rooms. Or the “glamorous” travel people think of (international first and business class to fun destinations) typically involves getting in and out as quickly as possible.
When it comes to summing up the reality of business travel, I think nothing does that better than the 2009 movie “Up in the Air.” It perfectly captures the (theoretical) allure, plus the reality of what this kind of travel is like.
Focus on jobs that give you flexibility and choice
As much as it’s easy to romanticize business travel (I did for years — after all, who doesn’t like someone else paying for their travel?), I think it’s much more fun to pursue leisure travel on your own terms, and to focus on finding a job that you find fulfilling, and that gives you time and flexibility (at least in the long run).
When I was much younger, I thought I should become a consultant, because it would allow me to travel the most. And then I realized what drew me to that wasn’t a passion for what I’d actually be spending 50+ hours per week doing, but rather the corporate hotels in small towns that I’d likely end up in, along with the possible weekly domestic flights.
So if my life hadn’t worked out the way it did, I don’t think I could have followed through on that. I think I would have done something completely different, even if it involved no travel. And then I would have dedicated my resources (time and finances) toward traveling in a way that I enjoyed.
I do believe that if you’re passionate about something and can add value, that’s where you’ll find the best setup in the long run. And honestly, as the years go by, we see fewer and fewer people with typical desk jobs. It’s no longer considered completely crazy to take an unconventional path.
For example, rather than picking a job simply because it requires a lot of travel, I’d much rather get a remote job where I can work from anywhere, and have the ability to travel the way I want to. Even if you go a more traditional path, there’s something to be said for jobs where you can “bank” vacation time, either by working longer shifts, working on individual projects that you can take breaks between, etc.
Bottom line
I’m by no means a career counsellor, so by all means take my advice with a grain of salt. However, I tend to think that pursuing a career simply because it requires a lot of travel is a bad idea.
I think a much better strategy is to try to find a job that involves something you’re passionate about (regardless of the travel implications), so that you can actually spend your days doing something you enjoy. On top of that, find a job that gives you flexibility and/or lets you work remotely, because odds are that this will let you do a lot more travel on your own terms.
What’s your take on the concept of seeking out a job that requires lots of travel?
I am Singapore based, travel up to 4 times longhaul a month, hence I am a Solitaire with SQ. As much as I like the treatment, I do think the name is more akin to solitude than to the diamond :-)
I used to be one of those people who wanted to travel for work when I was in my 20s. I ended up working at HQ and the company I work for prefer to bring people to HQ than sending HQ folks to satellite offices. Hence, no work travel for me.
Now looking back, I'm glad it turned out that way. I love travelling and it forced me to be strategic with my own...
I used to be one of those people who wanted to travel for work when I was in my 20s. I ended up working at HQ and the company I work for prefer to bring people to HQ than sending HQ folks to satellite offices. Hence, no work travel for me.
Now looking back, I'm glad it turned out that way. I love travelling and it forced me to be strategic with my own personal travels and achieving my goals of flying premium cabins (mainly thanks to points/miles.) It's better to choose where you travel rather than be forced to travel there.
Spy.
*I may have watched too many James Bond movies*
For most people they have a "job" (even possibly a well paying one) not a passion. Your "job" should give you the lifestyle you want. Some desire a very simplistic life so pay means less. Anybody that thinks we all should/can be super business owner making $15M a year while we order around our subordinates lives in la la land.
The entire "business travel" game is totally different now than 30 years ago. Upgrades...
For most people they have a "job" (even possibly a well paying one) not a passion. Your "job" should give you the lifestyle you want. Some desire a very simplistic life so pay means less. Anybody that thinks we all should/can be super business owner making $15M a year while we order around our subordinates lives in la la land.
The entire "business travel" game is totally different now than 30 years ago. Upgrades have gone away and if you're in the consultant class anything under five hours is coach. If the customer is paying that's probably long haul international only, which is becoming less common as companies hire closer to the source and do more online calls. A Teams call is certainly cheaper than flying five people from New York to London or Brussels.
Since travel is expensive you're expected to be very productive. No shuttering to your laundry room to throw in a load of clothes. No taking a bit longer lunch to go to the gym or take a run. No doing grocery shopping on some downtime between endless Teams calls.
After a while being constantly jammed into at best an E+ seat, living in boring hotel rooms, lacking sleep, missing events at home, and expecting to be "on" 10-12 hours a day gets old.
President. Pays is just ok but perks. Minimal job qualifications. Travel when you want. Old plane though. Upgrade on the way if you can wait. Incumbent retires in three years.
I work in sales covering the UK, Australasia and Africa and take about about 25-30 work trips a year. This includes includes 1-2 trips to the US, 3-4 to Australia and NZ, 2-3 trips to South Africa and approx 20 trips to Europe with most of these being London to BSL / GVA / ZRH.
Thankfully I’d don’t have to do in’n’out trips, so I’m usually in the US and SA for at least...
I work in sales covering the UK, Australasia and Africa and take about about 25-30 work trips a year. This includes includes 1-2 trips to the US, 3-4 to Australia and NZ, 2-3 trips to South Africa and approx 20 trips to Europe with most of these being London to BSL / GVA / ZRH.
Thankfully I’d don’t have to do in’n’out trips, so I’m usually in the US and SA for at least 5 nights and when down under I’ll usually stay for 2 weeks, so I’ve a little time to be a tourist.
That said whilst it looks glamorous on my insta it’s far from glam. Add in personal travel and I do almost 100 flights a year and whilst personally I only fly business for long haul trips;, for work it’s PE all the way.
Across a year that’s 400+ hours on a plane and several hundred more in airports, trains and Ubers. Plus this year i’ll spend over 200 nights in hotels and they can vary from the ritz Carlton (personal) to travelodge (work).
I love my job and consider myself fortunate to see so much of the world for work, but it’s not glamorous and all jobs with travel involve trade offs and sacrifices. For instance I’m regularly away from my wife for nearly 3 weeks at a time.
For me personally, it all comes down to a period in life and changing priorities.
I first started flying as a FA in my 20's for a European flag carrier on their short haul network. I could not WAIT to get onto the 'big jets'. In my 20's, my ultimate was to be away as much as possible, to the furthest flung destinations on the longest duration of trip. My life was essentially exploring the...
For me personally, it all comes down to a period in life and changing priorities.
I first started flying as a FA in my 20's for a European flag carrier on their short haul network. I could not WAIT to get onto the 'big jets'. In my 20's, my ultimate was to be away as much as possible, to the furthest flung destinations on the longest duration of trip. My life was essentially exploring the world when at work, partying and then my time at home used for rest.
Fast forward fifteen years and my priorities change. I have seen the world, I have a mortgage, a husband, a five year old. My roster bidding now revolves around the shortest possible trip to wherever that generates the most time possible at home.
Ben suggested „Up in the air“ as an example for a job involving lots of air-travel, though another great example might be the show „Mindhunter“ which shows a less glamorous side of business travel (economy flights + cheap motels)
I lived the consultant life for a few years in the early 2000's flying from mid-sized city at the crack of dawn or earlier on Monday morning to other mid-sized cities and leaving on Thursday evening (reaching around midnight). Not worth missing a ton of social events, networking opportunities etc. and compressing errands into the weekend. Better to get a remote job and work from anywhere.
Consulting. Either the MBB of Big 4
For most people their job is just a job that they get paid from, but I agree with the comment about finding something you're passionate about.
True but this is a terrible way to live
For those who were born into privilege, it's more of a hobby than a "job".
I think this article could have been better if it was shorter. I agree with the general idea. I also think people need to consider when they join a company they will not have many business trips. I think business trips are the kind of thing that when you have them you are okay and if you have too many you wish you had fewer but if you have almost none you wish you had...
I think this article could have been better if it was shorter. I agree with the general idea. I also think people need to consider when they join a company they will not have many business trips. I think business trips are the kind of thing that when you have them you are okay and if you have too many you wish you had fewer but if you have almost none you wish you had them. I also agree that most business trips will not be on the luxury end and even that gets tiring. Sometimes you just want to be home.
Most articles on this blog could be reduced to a few sentences with no loss of substance. Many readers, such as myself, enjoy the longer winded style.
"Companies" are for losers, unless you're the founder, and even then, you're probably still a loser. Winners work at "firms" (McKinsey, Bain, BCG; investment...
Most articles on this blog could be reduced to a few sentences with no loss of substance. Many readers, such as myself, enjoy the longer winded style.
"Companies" are for losers, unless you're the founder, and even then, you're probably still a loser. Winners work at "firms" (McKinsey, Bain, BCG; investment banks; large corporate law firms and litigation boutiques).
Corporate rat lol
I’m sorry but not only are your posts deeply annoying, your made-up persona isn’t even correct on many things. Maybe twenty years ago this was arguable, but anyone starting their career at these firms today is at massive risk of being made obsolete or surplus to requirements by AI in very short order (they are already all massively cutting intakes).
There are also many senior employees at large corporations who earn multiples of what even...
I’m sorry but not only are your posts deeply annoying, your made-up persona isn’t even correct on many things. Maybe twenty years ago this was arguable, but anyone starting their career at these firms today is at massive risk of being made obsolete or surplus to requirements by AI in very short order (they are already all massively cutting intakes).
There are also many senior employees at large corporations who earn multiples of what even a Partner at a top law firm, consulting firm etc earns. Do you have any idea what the likes of Google are paying even mid-level employees in AI related fields these days? Stick to your area of expertise of pretending to be a lawyer or whatever it is.
Tom, you might want to actually read the content of my posts as I addressed AI research and I probably know its compensation situation better than you as my girlfriend has been a research scientist at Google DeepMind for years
As regards senior employees at large corporations, if they are W-2 employees they are losers, plain and simple. They work for somebody else carrying out somebody else's vision. Comp may be enough for a decent...
Tom, you might want to actually read the content of my posts as I addressed AI research and I probably know its compensation situation better than you as my girlfriend has been a research scientist at Google DeepMind for years
As regards senior employees at large corporations, if they are W-2 employees they are losers, plain and simple. They work for somebody else carrying out somebody else's vision. Comp may be enough for a decent life but what about prestige and social status? That is why I advocate firm life.
Real winners own their business.
Wanna be works at "firms". I have Losers like PENILE working for me.
Even MBB have to suck my PENILE for business.
Many great suggestions here, and as for Ben, this might be my favourite post that I've ever read from you. As a student who is still studying in university, this is very helpful to ensure I make a good choice for a career. To any other commenters, any other job suggestions are welcome
Consider this as you plan your career. All figures I cite below are easily verified.
Kirkland & Ellis (law firm) profit per partner (i.e. average income):
over $9,000,000
Median personal income in America:
under $40,000
The average Kirkland partner outearns in one year what the average American earns in two centuries
But also consider how many PENILE you have to blow to be a partner.
You can end up sucking centuries of PENILE and still make median income.
I’ve done enough Monday to Thursday trips to Wichita, Akron, Greensboro, etc., to know that it’s usually underdone eggs in the “club” at a past its prime Marriott for breakfast. Occasional trips to Buenos Aires, London, and St Martin (where you’re on the ground for less than 24 hours) don’t make up for the general suckage. Miles and points help only for some of it. And once you have kids, money doesn’t fix it.
Kansas, Ohio, and the Carolinas have nice things to offer, if you know where to look; but, going there for work, repeatedly, yeah, that’s a drag. I will say, if you fly United, have access to their lounges, and connect through Houston, they do have those tortillas, which do make the eggs and bacon taste a little better in the mornings. We all have had to find ways to make the ‘less than ideal’ a...
Kansas, Ohio, and the Carolinas have nice things to offer, if you know where to look; but, going there for work, repeatedly, yeah, that’s a drag. I will say, if you fly United, have access to their lounges, and connect through Houston, they do have those tortillas, which do make the eggs and bacon taste a little better in the mornings. We all have had to find ways to make the ‘less than ideal’ a little better. Nice to commiserate with those who ‘get it.’ You do you, though.
When I was young, I had the "privilege" of having one of these jobs in Sales, with a US Airline. This was before frequent flyer upgrade perks were put in place. At least once time every week I flew first class somewhere whether it was in the USA, Europe, etc. At first it was fun! I was spoiled beyond belief. After a few years though, it got old, very boring and very lonely to be...
When I was young, I had the "privilege" of having one of these jobs in Sales, with a US Airline. This was before frequent flyer upgrade perks were put in place. At least once time every week I flew first class somewhere whether it was in the USA, Europe, etc. At first it was fun! I was spoiled beyond belief. After a few years though, it got old, very boring and very lonely to be honest. I finally quit and got a real good paying job. Now I fly using miles on my own terms, with my family and we always seem to manage to sit up front!
I am the 100th comment on this post!
Allow me the honor of dispensing career advice. It is very simple. Follow this decision tree.
Are you a douchebag?
- If yes, become an analyst (at an investment bank).
- If no, become an associate (at a large law firm).
Either way, aim for partner/managing director and earn $10MM+, as I do.
Penile, you aren’t tricking anyone. We know it’s you…
Damn it!
RE: I think a much better strategy is to try to find a job that involves something you’re passionate about (regardless of the travel implications), so that you can actually spend your days doing something you enjoy.
I spent most of my career with a nonprofit international health organization that operated in nearly every region of the world. The work—helping to save and improve lives, particularly in developing countries—was deeply meaningful to me.
One unexpected...
RE: I think a much better strategy is to try to find a job that involves something you’re passionate about (regardless of the travel implications), so that you can actually spend your days doing something you enjoy.
I spent most of my career with a nonprofit international health organization that operated in nearly every region of the world. The work—helping to save and improve lives, particularly in developing countries—was deeply meaningful to me.
One unexpected bonus was the travel itself. My assignments often took me to places far off the tourist map: every one of the “-stan” countries, much of Africa, and regions still recovering from conflict or hardship. Having local staff to meet me at the airport and guide my visits made a world of difference—both for safety and for truly understanding the communities we served. Along the way, I collected enough vaccinations to qualify as a human pincushion and learned more about resilience than any travel guide could teach.
Whenever possible, I’d add a few personal days at a connecting hub—sometimes meeting my husband to explore a new city together. Those brief respites became cherished memories amid the intensity of the work.
When he retired, we eventually settled in one of those familiar hub cities, a place we’d grown to love through years of stopovers. In that sense, the travel that once supported my career ended up shaping the rhythm of our later life—a final gift from work that never stopped expanding my world.
90% of people have no passions whatsoever
99% of people have no monetizable passions
Most halfway smart people who want to make decent money should unironically aim for equity partnership at a V50 big law firm.
Well, at least we’re ‘passionate’ about commenting on travel/credit card blogs. You into other ‘communities,’ too, or just this one? Like, you into Tame Impala? They just released a new album today. Not bad.
I know you do not believe me, but I am really an equity partner. I don't have time for other "passions." I listen to Taylor Swift, never heard of Tame Impala.
I donno how to even respond to that other than: “Oh, geez! That's just awful. Now, what do you have to wash that awful taste out of my mouth? (Mountain Dew or Crab Juice.) Blecch! Ew! Sheesh! I'll take a crab juice.”
I wouldn't retain firm that would appoint someone like you as an equity partner to organise a dead pet's funeral, let alone manage my legal affairs.
Pete I really hope you're not an actual Londoner because you tarnish the reputation of the entire UK with your crass comments.
As someone who flies for a living but doesn’t work for an airline, it gets very old, very quickly. Flying 4-5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, staying in hotels every week, it may seem glamorous, but as someone pointed out, it gets quite tiring.
Majority of my travel is international with 3-4 domestic trips sprinkled in per month. All company paid travel, booked in business or premium depending on when flight was...
As someone who flies for a living but doesn’t work for an airline, it gets very old, very quickly. Flying 4-5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, staying in hotels every week, it may seem glamorous, but as someone pointed out, it gets quite tiring.
Majority of my travel is international with 3-4 domestic trips sprinkled in per month. All company paid travel, booked in business or premium depending on when flight was booked. Hotels always a Marriott or Hilton, and everything covered. Averaging somewhere near 3-400k miles per year for the past decade, 2020 was about 205k during COVID (arguably the best time to ever fly, transcons with 5 passengers, NYC-LHR with maybe 25 people on a 773, and Delta blocking middle seats for a year)
It’s easy to do when single, but as the family grows so does the slight resentment of the schedule towards the family. Missed events due to weather and delays; and with the abysmal state of air traffic in the US, you can almost never guarantee you’ll be where you want to be when you want to. You need a partner whose understanding and can take care of the house when you’re gone, and understand 95% of the time things are out of your control. Even the small things like WiFi can be an issue; flying to London 3-4 times a month on AA means at least 2x i will be without internet both directions, making my days that much longer.
Now i will say it’s a great way to see the world on someone else’s dime, and discover the places you like and you hate. It also gives a great perspective on the world and how the other half lives. Nothing can ever replace actually going to a country and seeing what it’s like and experiencing what is happening there. I’ve been through numerous strikes, protests, and conflict zones, and while not always the safest environments and places, have been lucky to always make it out with no issues. These events have always made me grateful for the life i live and things i sadly take for granted when the majority of the world would be thrilled with 10% of what we have here.
I would be remiss to say not to try a job like this. If you have the opportunity to take a job with 75% travel, And have the ability to live that lifestyle with family support, it’s a great experience for a few years. It’s just not something that is sustainable for decades anymore.
If the question is what careers will give you the chance to fly and stay in hotels a lot, then my career path of management consulting and then tech manufacturing meets the criteria. In the long run, you won't enjoy it though.
I've spent more than 14 years in travel heavy roles first as a management consultant where I traveled 40wks out of a year domestically (economy class) and then the last 10+ years in...
If the question is what careers will give you the chance to fly and stay in hotels a lot, then my career path of management consulting and then tech manufacturing meets the criteria. In the long run, you won't enjoy it though.
I've spent more than 14 years in travel heavy roles first as a management consultant where I traveled 40wks out of a year domestically (economy class) and then the last 10+ years in tech manufacturing where I travel extensively to Asia and sometimes Europe (business class). I am Diamond with Delta and was 1K with United for many years, along with lifetime platinum with Marriott. Long story short, I do not enjoy work travel at all anymore, and try to minimize my time on the road these days.
When I first started as a management consultant, I was young with no family and traveling every week and staying in a hotel on an expense account was amazing. I would stay over the weekend during some trips and explore the city. But as I got a bit older, this type of travel made it very hard to keep in touch with friends and even date.
The latter part of my career where I get the privilege to fly business class everywhere I go, it was initially very entertaining, but at this point my business trip itineraries are designed to minimize my time in any given city. I typically land in the morning, head straight to the site, go to hotel, go to site, go to hotel, to go site, go to airport. There is no interest in staying in a city to explore it, given I've visited it so many times already and time at home is much more precious.
Best career advice-study something that you are interested in, really enjoy doing, and can lead to a career that will pay decently and will be something with growth potential and challenges you
Yes, generally, a great idea; but, in-practice, it’s often a bit more challenging and complicated than you described. Perhaps, a ‘small’ loan of $1 million from your father would help (and getting bailed out when you bankrupt your own casino.) You know, for the love of the game…
Only three careers pay decently in a deterministic way (meaning you can just grind, you don't have to count on extreme luck, as being a founder would entail)
1) high finance - starting as an analyst at an investment bank (~$200k) and exiting to a fund ($10-100MM++) - or (for Rain Man STEM folks) starting as a quant trader/researcher which is often guaranteed $2MM in year one and generally earns $20-50MM a year.
2) big...
Only three careers pay decently in a deterministic way (meaning you can just grind, you don't have to count on extreme luck, as being a founder would entail)
1) high finance - starting as an analyst at an investment bank (~$200k) and exiting to a fund ($10-100MM++) - or (for Rain Man STEM folks) starting as a quant trader/researcher which is often guaranteed $2MM in year one and generally earns $20-50MM a year.
2) big law - Kirkland's profit per equity partner is close to $10MM. Equity partnership is achieved in one's mid-thirties assuming no break between undergrad and law school. People who do a law-focused undergrad outside the US could trim a few years off this timeline.
3) software engineering - FAANG and peers w.r.t. compensation (think Uber and DoorDash) pay line managers - twentysomething dweebs in hoodies and sneakers - $1-2MM range and thirtysomething middle managers $3-5MM. As in finance, Rain Man level people get 10-100x that at Anthropic, OpenAI and the like. Last week, an Australian born AI researcher in his mid thirties accepted a Meta offer rumored to be $3.5B. That's B as in billion. But, I'll avoid fixating on that because I started this list by talking about deterministic pay. Grinding those commits/diffs for a few years then switching to the management track deterministically gets you to a peak income of $3-5MM in today's dollars which isn't bad (although I'd rather be the average Kirkland share partner making 2-3x that money while also having higher status as an actual partner of a high end professional services firm instead of a middle manager of code monkeys).
Penile, that’s all outdated, isn’t it. Maybe until about 2025, those relatively high-paid ‘white collar’ careers were nearly a sure-thing, but, looking ahead, we’ve got 6 lawyers for every 1 job, an over-educated, under-employed populace… just saying, all that is fuel for revolutions. (Lenin, Castro, and others were failed lawyers.) And, the other gigs, they aren’t hiring for either, which is an even bigger issue, as the young adults have no good options. We’d better...
Penile, that’s all outdated, isn’t it. Maybe until about 2025, those relatively high-paid ‘white collar’ careers were nearly a sure-thing, but, looking ahead, we’ve got 6 lawyers for every 1 job, an over-educated, under-employed populace… just saying, all that is fuel for revolutions. (Lenin, Castro, and others were failed lawyers.) And, the other gigs, they aren’t hiring for either, which is an even bigger issue, as the young adults have no good options. We’d better correct this problem before we become Nepal or Madagascar with a Gen Z uprising. Garsh.
The world would be wonderful if every job were held by an individual with the character and fitness, not to mention the demeanor and communication skills, of a large law firm attorney.
While I can appreciate Ben thinking about a future career this way when he was a kid, it would be extremely surprising to me if any material number of college seniors/recent grads who had just spent four years majoring/concentrating in a specific subject were then choosing jobs based primarily on maximizing travel and not on the substance of the job itself. The closest to that I encountered at that age were friends who had liberal...
While I can appreciate Ben thinking about a future career this way when he was a kid, it would be extremely surprising to me if any material number of college seniors/recent grads who had just spent four years majoring/concentrating in a specific subject were then choosing jobs based primarily on maximizing travel and not on the substance of the job itself. The closest to that I encountered at that age were friends who had liberal arts majors, were planning on going to business or law school, but wanted to work for a few years first and thought, "consulting is a job I can get and the travel part might be fun for a couple of years" (narrator: the travel part was generally not fun beyond the first month or so). Still different from "my main criteria for a job is maximal business travel," which seems like something only a 12 year-old would think.
The substance of any job available to new grads out of undergrad amount to moving logos around a powerpoint presentation
Compared to that, focusing on the ability to travel isn't so bad
I'd rather be adjusting logos 30,000 feet up in the air instead of in a suburban office park waiting for my doordash Applebee's
Penile, they aren’t hiring much anymore; the kids coming out of undergrad and graduate schools are ‘cooked.’ (Get ready for someone to chime in with an anecdote on how *their* company just hired someone, who, turns out, is friends with the hiring manager, or the bosses’ son.)
1990, you have hit the nail on the head as to why private schools in Manhattan charge $70,000+ a year for thirteen years. (You have to get in at kindergarten for full effect.) The academic education is secondary. What kids do there is hobnob with their future boss, their future boss's boss, and the entire families and friend groups of the same.
Kids could learn more academic knowledge at Stuyvesant. But I literally know Stuy...
1990, you have hit the nail on the head as to why private schools in Manhattan charge $70,000+ a year for thirteen years. (You have to get in at kindergarten for full effect.) The academic education is secondary. What kids do there is hobnob with their future boss, their future boss's boss, and the entire families and friend groups of the same.
Kids could learn more academic knowledge at Stuyvesant. But I literally know Stuy grads who work as lobby receptionists while their Trinity, Spence, (etc.) counterparts are closing billion dollar deals 50 floors up.
Ah, but, location, location, location… Stuy has that nice spot on the Hudson…
50?! You mean 90. Those residential towers on 57th, Hudson Yards, and WTC are much taller. Then again, mostly just mechanical and observatory at the top. Besides, after 9/11 many top executives preferred slightly lower floors anyway.
So, you think Mamdani’s got this? At least the Stuy grads can enjoy some ‘free’ buses…
Are we really going to pretend like Ben didn’t get a huge leg up from his rich parents?
Didn’t we all… no, no… ‘self-made,’ yeah, that’s the ticket!
My brother and SiL were both partners at a British acceptance and issuance house, and they commuted between London and NY for many years. When their children were pre-schoolers they came along too. It was a charmed life, but once you've made your pile and realise you've spent too little time with your kids, the allure fades. There are more important things in life than money, although I realise that it's easy for financially secure people to say that...
Did they at least get to fly Concorde? (Sorry, it’s a travel blog… gotta ask)
Yes, however Concorde, you will recall, left commercial service in 2003, which was about the same time they started traveling a lot on business.
long time fan of the site and I've commented more than once.
Not sure what made one of the commenters on here think that all biz travelers are obese boomers.
I'm an Xennial. I'm a senior manager for the division of our company that offers training to our customers.
We sell a software solution that most companies usually need and are one (number 1, as well) of only 3 real competitors. Unlike...
long time fan of the site and I've commented more than once.
Not sure what made one of the commenters on here think that all biz travelers are obese boomers.
I'm an Xennial. I'm a senior manager for the division of our company that offers training to our customers.
We sell a software solution that most companies usually need and are one (number 1, as well) of only 3 real competitors. Unlike my colleagues in our industry, I still actively also train customers because I really enjoy it. But, as the "boss" I can choose when/where I go. So I am usually on the road just the right amount of what I find enjoyable (at least 1 trip a month but no more than 2 ever) and I go to both industry events and company events (I'm remote, my company is based on the east coast and I'm outside Seattle). I also still vacation with an on-again/off-again boyfriend (but still good friend, regardless) who never has to travel for work so he always wants to go somewhere far (which works for me). I always have enough points (I am a die-hard Chase loyalist) to pretty much take whatever airline we want and stay wherever we want.
I never married nor have a family and work from home. If I didn't get to travel for work, I think I would be pretty miserable. I get out of the house for these trips, I get to meet new people all the time, sample evenings out in cities I don't live and continue making connections with our clients.
I would say I net mostly positivity from it. The only time I get annoyed is delays when trying to get home on a Friday but I fly DL so it' snot that often.
I'm not a road warrior, but am in control of my schedule and for a few years had Monday-Friday off every other week. There were often deals on Delta for about $500 round trip to Europe in the mid 2010s. I would work Thursday, get on the last Delta flight to connect to a hub, then take the red eye to Europe, arriving Friday, the rest of which would be a blur. But I would...
I'm not a road warrior, but am in control of my schedule and for a few years had Monday-Friday off every other week. There were often deals on Delta for about $500 round trip to Europe in the mid 2010s. I would work Thursday, get on the last Delta flight to connect to a hub, then take the red eye to Europe, arriving Friday, the rest of which would be a blur. But I would have 2 full days on Saturday and Sunday to explore before flying back on Monday.
Rinse and repeat, and that's how I scraped my way to 1MM.
as someone who is United Global Services and also a 1 million Miler who does an immense amount of travel every year, your comments are well-founded. You do have different views as you go through your life. Early in your career, it’s great to visit new places like I did. Then, if you get a family and kids and have responsibilities, it becomes less exciting, particularly if you keep going to the same places over...
as someone who is United Global Services and also a 1 million Miler who does an immense amount of travel every year, your comments are well-founded. You do have different views as you go through your life. Early in your career, it’s great to visit new places like I did. Then, if you get a family and kids and have responsibilities, it becomes less exciting, particularly if you keep going to the same places over and over. I fly business class to Singapore and Japan frequently, but spend most of my time in a hotel lounge with my colleagues just hanging out because it’s downtime that is actually very precious to me.
Big thanks to PENILE, AeroB13a, ARPS and others for helping me with my abnormal psych paper
the longest time in a row where I have not seen an airplane this year was 6 days.
It's really gets old very soon.
My most common trip is 4 days with a single night in an airport hotel sandwiched between red eyes and 2 days in a Korean factory.
Regardless of the flights being long haul business or the hotel being a Grand Hyatt, it soon gets old.
Grand Hyatt isn't a luxury hotel brand. It's mid. Similarly, long haul business is utilitarian and there is hardly more to it than the seat. You're not even boarding first, and there are so many business class seats that even your business class boarding group feels like a cattle call.
"Similarly, long haul business is utilitarian and there is hardly more to it than the seat. You're not even boarding first, and there are so many business class seats that even your business class boarding group feels like a cattle call."
Sounds like you spend a lot of time in the middle of the plane to know so much about it. Oh mon pauvre...Arps / Paul Weiss / whatever.
Are you listing the names of law firms that fed your summer associate application to the shredder?
Eh, depends on the area; if you're in Tampa, the Grand Hyatt near TPA is fine, unless you want to 'splurge' for the Edition downtown. All fairly lame if you're a 'big shot' M&A attorney trying to impress his new GF, eh?
Traveling for fun, family, and experiences is where it's at. If you are privileged enough to do that, you have it made. If can get paid to do it, you're Ben. But, most don't reach that level.
Traveling for work is rarely fun (even if someone else is paying, unless... they're buying expensive long-haul business lie-flat, which is rare these days, as many companies have cut back, significantly on elite corporate travel for anyone...
Traveling for fun, family, and experiences is where it's at. If you are privileged enough to do that, you have it made. If can get paid to do it, you're Ben. But, most don't reach that level.
Traveling for work is rarely fun (even if someone else is paying, unless... they're buying expensive long-haul business lie-flat, which is rare these days, as many companies have cut back, significantly on elite corporate travel for anyone put the very top, who fly private, anyway.)
For those working in aviation, I feel for those of you who are so often over-worked, under-paid. Was speaking with a crew member recently who does a lot of out-and-back to the Caribbean, but rarely gets to actually stay and enjoy any of those beautiful islands, other than the 1-2 hour turn-around. That's bitter sweet.
It's not privilege. Somebody earned it. I mean yes they were privileged to be in the position to earn that, but orders of magnitude more people were equally privileged and squandered it.
Who determines whether it was 'earned' or 'taken,' counselor?
1990, you may or may not be aware that I have recently retired after two decades of flying at the behest of my masters. Regular trans continental flights as a passenger in F or J, were never a drudge. The renumeration (during my service and even now in retirement) was/is nothing but fun …. :-)
"...renumeration..."
(remuneration)
AeroB13a, 'masters'? Thought we got rid of those.
Anyway, congrats on your retirement.
TravelinWilly, good save.
Remote working with a liberal policy for working from abroad is where it's at. Even if you don't enjoy constantly travelling, being able to spend 2-3 weeks working somewhere nice, sunny and cheap in the middle of the winter is a huge benefit.
No respectable employer has such a liberal policy. If you're working for, one your job isn't prestigious at all.
There is one exception. Quinn liberally allows remote work. Good luck working abroad though.
In any case, there are even more respectable places to litigate. Try Susman or Kellogg.
The pandemic really changed things, where everyday people (and managers) realized that much of their 'white collar' office work could indeed be done anywhere; and, once commercial real estate bag holders realized how screwed they were, that's when RTO was forced down everyone's throats. Or, you can enjoy the 'views' of the Hudson from both your apartment and office at Hudson Yards...
@1990 @Penile
There are truths in what both of you state.
My company which has a liberal WFH policy, will not allow anyone to be based internationally. One of my staff wanted to move back to France and one wanted to get out of the USA and move to Costa Rica. It was no for both. She resigned and moved back to France anyhow.
Many employees were indeed forced back to the office...
@1990 @Penile
There are truths in what both of you state.
My company which has a liberal WFH policy, will not allow anyone to be based internationally. One of my staff wanted to move back to France and one wanted to get out of the USA and move to Costa Rica. It was no for both. She resigned and moved back to France anyhow.
Many employees were indeed forced back to the office because of scratch my back I scratch yoursitis conducted by lease holders and their friends in high places.
Uh oh… telling us we’re ‘right’ …there goes our egos.
The US has little to no worker protections, any standard bare minimums for paid time off, medical or family leave, etc., so, until we fight for better, most of us are beholden to the whims of wealthy folks who could care less about the wellbeing of their corporate mercenaries, even the relatively well paid ones…
That said, I’ve seen some interesting optional ‘work from anywhere’...
Uh oh… telling us we’re ‘right’ …there goes our egos.
The US has little to no worker protections, any standard bare minimums for paid time off, medical or family leave, etc., so, until we fight for better, most of us are beholden to the whims of wealthy folks who could care less about the wellbeing of their corporate mercenaries, even the relatively well paid ones…
That said, I’ve seen some interesting optional ‘work from anywhere’ programs, where like +10 days of the year can be based in particular countries where there’s an affiliate office of the company. Sure, maybe some are better than others; say, Thailand may make for a better work-holiday than, say, Poland, but it depends on your interests and/or where you have family.
@PENILE, it depends on your definition of 'respectable'. To state the obvious, there are more than a few people out there who do not believe that any part of the legal profession is in any way respectable. I'm also in a line of work that's far popular at dinner parties - that doesn't take away my ability to enjoy the work and even make enough money from it to cover my costs (though I won't...
@PENILE, it depends on your definition of 'respectable'. To state the obvious, there are more than a few people out there who do not believe that any part of the legal profession is in any way respectable. I'm also in a line of work that's far popular at dinner parties - that doesn't take away my ability to enjoy the work and even make enough money from it to cover my costs (though I won't be building serious capital from it unless and until I decide to start chasing short term assignments on day rates).
The fact of the matter is that there are employers with such policies out there, I have experience working in one of them and have seen articles mentioning multiple employers doing the same, and I even bumped into someone this evening working for a Portuguese company that allows them to permanently work from the UK. While that's rather complicated when it comes to navigating payroll taxes and employment laws, and @justindev probably did the right thing in refusing those requests, there shouldn't be any real issues with allowing staff to work from a different country for up to 2-3 months per year or so.
*far from popular at dinner parties
I agree there are these people, but they are all absolutely ignorant - the law underpins civil society.
Throwawayname, are you in ‘health insurance’? If so, once the renewals come out, you about to get burnt!
If it's a job that allows you to control the travel, then that's the ideal. As someone just starting out, that's almost impossible. I've done the glamorous - global role, chose a country for a global meeting where one of the other leaders was based (or nearby beach resort), and stay a week, as well as the mundane (which was more surreal that some folks actually do this for years) where you board the same...
If it's a job that allows you to control the travel, then that's the ideal. As someone just starting out, that's almost impossible. I've done the glamorous - global role, chose a country for a global meeting where one of the other leaders was based (or nearby beach resort), and stay a week, as well as the mundane (which was more surreal that some folks actually do this for years) where you board the same domestic flight on a Monday morning every week, see the same same people from other companies on that flight, after landing all go to the Hertz rental counter and get their Toyota Corolla, all end up at the same hotel at the end of every day, and all then leave on the same flight back on a Thursday evening. Bottom line, it's the job first that matters. The travel can be phenomenal but it also can be the complete opposite.
Exactly.
Worrying about the travel aspects of the job is foolish and naive.
If I'm a 25 year old PhD graduate being offered a $50 million a year engineering role at OpenAI, I'll happily fine-tune model parameters from the middle seat in the back row of Spirit Airlines.
Be honest, how long until that hype-bubble bursts? The ouroboros of the top ten companies reinvesting in themselves... pretty unsustainable. Can't merge or acquire your way outta that problem forever.
PEN-NIL …. you really do need to stop trying to be someone who you are not. You were outed as Arps amongst others while pretending to be a high flying lawyer, now you pretend to be engineering graduate.
This is a really poor show even for a teenager of very little brain.
An easier airport code is Pensacola (PNS). Of course, there's also Busan (PUS), and Korean actually operates a flight between Busan and Fukuoka (FUK).
I always liked the idea of a flight between LAX and FAT, myself. The only downside being that once you arrive you're in Fresno :-(
Just watch out for Fresno-Fukuoka!
HAH!
The general theme is: whatever job you have in your 20s that requires a lot of travel, you might enjoy because you have the energy and are single. But once you get yourself a SO and family, that style of travel is really grinding.
Personally, even when I can take a few days on either end of a business trip for sightseeing, I usually find it a lot more fun to do that with my...
The general theme is: whatever job you have in your 20s that requires a lot of travel, you might enjoy because you have the energy and are single. But once you get yourself a SO and family, that style of travel is really grinding.
Personally, even when I can take a few days on either end of a business trip for sightseeing, I usually find it a lot more fun to do that with my wife than on my own. That was true even in my late 20s after I got married. Nowadays I usually don't combine business and pleasure trips at all.
Unless you are retired, all pleasure trips are also business trips. If your career actually adds value to the world, and isn't some BS Office Space corporate job, you're never off. Your clients need you. Vacation just means working remotely.
Ahh, there you are. How many aliases do you actually have? And, were you the one imitating me on here and LALF, or was that one of the others I upset recently (Michael?)
I have hundreds of aliases, but none on LALF, so that must have been somebody else. I don't know who Michael is.
I've remarked on this blog that LALF is such a loser blog it's not even worth my time commenting on there. The author of that blog is a bottom tier law school grad who couldn't have ever dreamed of becoming an associate at Skadden Arps.
Well, they're all under the 'Boarding Area' umbrella, aren't they?
Except stand-alone operations like William and Chuck over at DoC (I've been enjoying your recent 'work' over there; was 'CFPB general' on the recent Marriott Gold post from yesterday, you?).
Ben's travel style is certainly more 'me' than Gary, and it seems Ben gets more traffic (and engagement). Perhaps, it is the ability to actually reply to comments with sub-comments, as opposed to chronological...
Well, they're all under the 'Boarding Area' umbrella, aren't they?
Except stand-alone operations like William and Chuck over at DoC (I've been enjoying your recent 'work' over there; was 'CFPB general' on the recent Marriott Gold post from yesterday, you?).
Ben's travel style is certainly more 'me' than Gary, and it seems Ben gets more traffic (and engagement). Perhaps, it is the ability to actually reply to comments with sub-comments, as opposed to chronological comments. Eh, definitely over-thinking it.
I actually can't remember my last alias on DoC, but it was not CFPB general.
While I can't remember my last alias, I recall one of my last comments was droning on about the FCPA. I had literally just had a conversation with a white collar defense attorney at a big law firm about anti-corruption.
DoC did not approve any of my subsequent comments so I stopped posting. Gary Leff manually approves all my comments...
I actually can't remember my last alias on DoC, but it was not CFPB general.
While I can't remember my last alias, I recall one of my last comments was droning on about the FCPA. I had literally just had a conversation with a white collar defense attorney at a big law firm about anti-corruption.
DoC did not approve any of my subsequent comments so I stopped posting. Gary Leff manually approves all my comments now. This approval process is tiresome to me so I haven't commented on his blog in a while. Personally I do not give consideration to the Boarding Area branding, if it's even applicable, still - both this website and VFTW used to be under a BA subdomain, but are not anymore.
Well then, as to DoC, we both got out-played, sir. Better luck next time.
Boarding Area appears to be the parent company/servicer of all these blogs; I'm sure Ben, Gary, Matt, and the others have ownership of their individual sites. It's interesting stuff.
As to the FCPA, oh, geez, don't count on the USA enforcing anything anytime soon, unless it's against perceived enemies (did you not-see that we just bailed out Argentina, $40...
Well then, as to DoC, we both got out-played, sir. Better luck next time.
Boarding Area appears to be the parent company/servicer of all these blogs; I'm sure Ben, Gary, Matt, and the others have ownership of their individual sites. It's interesting stuff.
As to the FCPA, oh, geez, don't count on the USA enforcing anything anytime soon, unless it's against perceived enemies (did you not-see that we just bailed out Argentina, $40 billion, yeah, 'merica first... psh); speaking of the global kleptocrats, recall how quickly everyone 'moved on' from the Panama and Paradise Papers. Separately, but somewhat related, did you ever read The Chickenshit Club (2017)?
what a cynical person. sheesh.
Sr Manager here. I take all 5 weeks of PTO I get every year without fail and push my employees to do the same. I control my travel and I believe strongly in work-life balance.
I'm not in sales, I'm in "learning" which is an adjunct of our engineering teams. We have set schedules for how we offer and deliver our services. Yes, there are times when people...
what a cynical person. sheesh.
Sr Manager here. I take all 5 weeks of PTO I get every year without fail and push my employees to do the same. I control my travel and I believe strongly in work-life balance.
I'm not in sales, I'm in "learning" which is an adjunct of our engineering teams. We have set schedules for how we offer and deliver our services. Yes, there are times when people want more than what we offer standard, but they pay for it and my rule has always been that my employees are asked if they WANT to to those jobs or I go do them. I don't force people to go above and beyond unless they want to. Why should they? I'm not that kind of manager.
JJ, oh, totally, if you get 20 PTO, or WFA, or whatever, please do use every last hour of it. No regrets. You’ve earned it.
I was the same, more intent on nurturing and developing talents that could add value long-term, instead of pushing people so hard they burned-out before they turned 40. If you're one of those rare people who can live on 30 hours of sleep a week, then more power to you. Most people can't, and if you're exhausted all the time and making mistakes, you're no good to me. Go home, get some sleep, play with...
I was the same, more intent on nurturing and developing talents that could add value long-term, instead of pushing people so hard they burned-out before they turned 40. If you're one of those rare people who can live on 30 hours of sleep a week, then more power to you. Most people can't, and if you're exhausted all the time and making mistakes, you're no good to me. Go home, get some sleep, play with your kids, come back firing on all cylinders, and we'll make some money.
Pete, you seem like a decent person, good coworker and/or manager, and a great mentor/teacher/sponsor. Thank you for what you do.
The job I was at in my 20's had me on the road twice a month. While I loved the travel enough that it brought me here, what was on the other side of the outbound flight sucked.
Each trip was 7-10 days long, where we worked 12-18 hour days with zero days off. While this took me to incredible places like Brazil, the Philippines, Mauritius, Big Sky, etc, I can't say with a...
The job I was at in my 20's had me on the road twice a month. While I loved the travel enough that it brought me here, what was on the other side of the outbound flight sucked.
Each trip was 7-10 days long, where we worked 12-18 hour days with zero days off. While this took me to incredible places like Brazil, the Philippines, Mauritius, Big Sky, etc, I can't say with a straight face that I "visited" those places because I barely left the hotel. Even having a few beers at night to get out of said hotel/explore the city was met with immediate dread, knowing I'd have to be back on my A game in just 6-8 hours.
That is what real work looks like.
Most consulting work is like this. The client is picking up the bill so they tend to be stingy and they expect you to work like a serf when onsite. There's very little downtime. Often you have to use "hotel time" to catch up on email, complete time/billing sheets, prepare activities for the next day, etc.
Other than as an 'excuse' and someone else to blame (for bad decisions, firing divisions, etc.) why do consultants even exist anymore? Most of the information they provide (worthless decks) can be produced using a decent prompt on any of these large language models... sounds like the end of high-paid white-collar jobs to me. Uh oh.
Mgmt Consultant here who flew on average ~150k miles a year all domestic. Some of it was very fun, like trips to Miami where I managed to score the elusive AA A321 seat 12F (IYKYK), stay in the brand new Hyatt Centric in South Beach, rent a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee, and dine at some fun restaurants (definitely over budget but somehow was never flagged) all on the company dime. Other times it was...
Mgmt Consultant here who flew on average ~150k miles a year all domestic. Some of it was very fun, like trips to Miami where I managed to score the elusive AA A321 seat 12F (IYKYK), stay in the brand new Hyatt Centric in South Beach, rent a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee, and dine at some fun restaurants (definitely over budget but somehow was never flagged) all on the company dime. Other times it was traveling to St Louis outer edge where you're staying at a not very nice Courtyard and have nothing to do or see nearby. The constant though was that you are traveling to these places to sit in an often windowless room meeting with people all day and are often so wrung out by the end of the day that you're wiped out, but still have follow-up work to do at the hotel.
I was lucky enough to do this when I was young enough to have the energy to still go out and explore afterwards, so I essentially got to experience an enormous amount of this amazing country for free. It was a non-negotiable for me to find a cool coffee shop on the way to the office every morning, and to see at least one sight per trip. The traveling for work lifestyle is what you make of it. There's a lot to dislike, a lot to like, but at the end of the day I am glad I did it, especially because the points and miles enabled me to travel on my personal travels in First Class and stay at 5 star hotels.
"St Louis outer edge" could mean the desirable parts of STL. The city center is hollowed out, although Katie's Pizza by the ballpark is very nice.
This is the wrong way to think about things. You want a career where the income enables you to travel that way. Miles and points are for losers.
Says the person on a points and miles blog?
Yes. I love miles and points. But I'm a loser.
"But I'm a loser."
Don't be so hard on yourself.
You're not a loser.
You're an asshole.
TravelinWilly, cold-blooded. 10/10.
Penile, didn't you finally get a girlfriend, recently?
No, I'm still using my right hand.
Better left next time! (Sorry, I mean ‘luck’)
Let's be real, one's hand, in tandem with reasonable visual stimulus and reasonable imagination, is far more satisfying (not to mention physically safe from STDs) compared to 99% of intercourse that occurs in the population.
‘Don’t be a fool… wrap your tool!’
Fine, aviation blog-themed: ‘Don’t be a pest, keep your seltbelt on while you rest!’
@Ben - I think another post that would be interesting to the same group of people you wanted to address in this post would be the following: What jobs are the best for young people to be able to travel with minimal/no experience?
That would help those who want to travel a lot while they are young, but do not necessarily want to pursue a career in it beyond a certain age, or they are...
@Ben - I think another post that would be interesting to the same group of people you wanted to address in this post would be the following: What jobs are the best for young people to be able to travel with minimal/no experience?
That would help those who want to travel a lot while they are young, but do not necessarily want to pursue a career in it beyond a certain age, or they are looking for something part time while working towards another career at the same time.
Best career ever.
Find a rich old person and dig all the gold.
Nice work if you can get it…
Based on OMAAT comments, seems mostly to be obese boomers traveling on the company dime, who maintain loyalty to inferior American airline and hotel brands out of habit.
No more accurate words have ever graced OMAAT comments lol
your comment reminds me of listening to hassan piker say something i agree with - you both still come off like bellends
The cat lady has entered the chat.
Julia, she who smelt it, dealt it.
I'm with Alec: it was great in my 20s (and early 30s), and like Justindev said, the trips became routine. Yes, the upgrades were great as were the huge amounts of points I would get on air/lodging/car. But after I'd get back I'd be exhausted and take a day or two to recover, depending on the trip. And I'd get behind on projects & hobbies I had been looking forward to undertaking (making minor improvements...
I'm with Alec: it was great in my 20s (and early 30s), and like Justindev said, the trips became routine. Yes, the upgrades were great as were the huge amounts of points I would get on air/lodging/car. But after I'd get back I'd be exhausted and take a day or two to recover, depending on the trip. And I'd get behind on projects & hobbies I had been looking forward to undertaking (making minor improvements to the house, participating in a cycling club, etc.). After a welcome career change to a career that only involves travel about every quarter, I realized that was my sweet spot.
If you're in your 20s, it's a dream. Hell, even before smartphones it was easy to meet folks, have flings, rampage on bar crawls, make crazy memories. Just manage to get to the job site or meeting on time the next day.
Age and starting a family make all of that impossible or excruciating if you can't or won't pull the plug on it.
I'm on the road every week now by choice...
If you're in your 20s, it's a dream. Hell, even before smartphones it was easy to meet folks, have flings, rampage on bar crawls, make crazy memories. Just manage to get to the job site or meeting on time the next day.
Age and starting a family make all of that impossible or excruciating if you can't or won't pull the plug on it.
I'm on the road every week now by choice but it's much more manageable. 2-3 hour flights twice a week at a maximum. A far cry from the late 2000s when I had to do JFK-LAX-AKL RT, pass out in bed and then my Blackberry buzzes and it's an email from our clients asking me to come right back.
Mr. (George) Santos, I hear you may have just been pardoned. Congrats on getting out early. Still not a fan of you or your scams…
International sales for a medium sized company. Travelled extensively from 2006 until Covid to 91 countries. Probably 100 days per year on average. Booked everything myself, biz class outside of Europe, nice hotels, made my own schedule, decided where to go and when. While single then added days and adventures all over. After kids then it was out and back asap. Or tagging on a different country every day in 5 days and then back....
International sales for a medium sized company. Travelled extensively from 2006 until Covid to 91 countries. Probably 100 days per year on average. Booked everything myself, biz class outside of Europe, nice hotels, made my own schedule, decided where to go and when. While single then added days and adventures all over. After kids then it was out and back asap. Or tagging on a different country every day in 5 days and then back. Went to places like Jakarta, Manila, Taipei, Nairobi, Bogota- nice dinners, half a day to walk around but didn't see rest of the country- solid meetings and then all the emails and calls to still do when got back to the room. Got very tired towards the end and bad back. Covid stopped all meetings and now, as others have said, the days of in far flung half day meetings have gone. Now mostly just expos and key meetings- probably 45 days per year. Make the most of every trip while young and single.
Salespeople can rake in significant cash. However, the job is extremely low on the social prestige totem pole. I would not recommend it.
If you're extremely charming and want to lean into that talent in your career, aim to be a partner at McKinsey, Bain, or BCG. (Even better - aim to be a top trial lawyer. But you'll need actual legal IQ for that on top of your EQ.)
How's M&A going these days, sir?
Splendidly. M&A is the most important job in America. It's how our capitalist economy grows and prospers which allows people to put food on the table and maintain a quality of life that is much higher than our EU or even Asian counterparts where M&A isn't as big of a deal - although of course China has rapidly caught up and the enormous wealth created by M&A there has fueled the growth of an extremely...
Splendidly. M&A is the most important job in America. It's how our capitalist economy grows and prospers which allows people to put food on the table and maintain a quality of life that is much higher than our EU or even Asian counterparts where M&A isn't as big of a deal - although of course China has rapidly caught up and the enormous wealth created by M&A there has fueled the growth of an extremely modern society that most readers of this blog will sadly never experience because of anti-China prejudice.
Which 'China'? (You know where I'm going with this.) And, I've been to both (as have plenty of people who frequent these sites), and I'd much rather live in a free country where I can actually speak my mind (like Taiwan, the Republic of China); and, buddy, the CCP-occupied mainland is more late-stage capitalist than we (in the USA) are, it's just centrally-planned (over there). That said, how'r those rare-Earths lookin'?
There is one China and Taiwan is a part of China.
Can you recommend a good top law firm for me to aspire trial lawyering for?
It was fun in my 20s. Especially when status got you upgrades and it was easy to use points for multiple international vacations in biz and nice hotel.
4 am Monday wake ups, packing and unpacking suitcase with same clothes (I literally did this for weeks and just cleaned over weekend and repacked same thing), realizing you’re missing out on family/friends/dating at home. It takes its toll.
But it’s what got me into this blog :)
Fully agree. My business travel policy allows me to book the highest available class and stay pretty much wherever I want, and I’m still not enthusiastic about most of my business trips.
I LOVE flying F/J when it’s a leisure trip and I can enjoy it (even though it’s not a novelty for me). But the reality of business travel for me is 1 night transatlantic trips where F/J just makes possible what would...
Fully agree. My business travel policy allows me to book the highest available class and stay pretty much wherever I want, and I’m still not enthusiastic about most of my business trips.
I LOVE flying F/J when it’s a leisure trip and I can enjoy it (even though it’s not a novelty for me). But the reality of business travel for me is 1 night transatlantic trips where F/J just makes possible what would be absolutely unbearable in Y, but I’m not exactly going to enjoy the experience (eg eat on an overnight or drink alcohol pretty much anytime) because it makes the trip as a whole pretty grim.
One upside is that my business travel guarantees me Oneworld Emerald status and a lot of miles!
Inevitably like most everything else, having such a job, they become routine and soon lose their charms. Living in 4 walls of a hotel room despite its luxury quickly pale in comparison to being at home.
I had one such job for 15 years. I was over it by year 12. Took me another 3 years for my exit strategy to materialize.
Couldn't get me to do it again.
Would I do it again if I had to do it, knowing what I know now - NO.
With technology where it is today, you have to wonder how much travel can be cut to a Zoom/Teams call. Especially for the majority who are mid tier individuals. Flying to a city for a day meeting sounds nuts in 2025. Most of my trips are multi day trips with multiple individuals and groups.
My advice, parlay your business travel to enhance your personal travel. Uber/Lyft business rewards, focus on 1 airline to get...
With technology where it is today, you have to wonder how much travel can be cut to a Zoom/Teams call. Especially for the majority who are mid tier individuals. Flying to a city for a day meeting sounds nuts in 2025. Most of my trips are multi day trips with multiple individuals and groups.
My advice, parlay your business travel to enhance your personal travel. Uber/Lyft business rewards, focus on 1 airline to get status, same for rental cars (National) and spread your hotel stays to maximize nights for status. You can also pile up rewards with company paid meals-Starbucks, Dunkin, restaurants who use Toast, ect. And also gas rewards.
In my road warrior days I would sometimes fly from DFW to Santiago Chile for a three hour meeting and get back on a plane the same day. F class but still exhausting.
In my 20’s I spent a number of years as a full time professional travel agent. The pay was awful but I had effectively unlimited time off and superb benefits. I got to see Tunisia and Spain and Israel and gobs of other places. Unfortunately in order to actually afford that travel I had to work a night job waiting tables.
I still look back at that time with relative fondness and I learned a...
In my 20’s I spent a number of years as a full time professional travel agent. The pay was awful but I had effectively unlimited time off and superb benefits. I got to see Tunisia and Spain and Israel and gobs of other places. Unfortunately in order to actually afford that travel I had to work a night job waiting tables.
I still look back at that time with relative fondness and I learned a great deal. My only regret is not getting my CTC. Ultimately though there’s no such thing as the perfect job with great travel benefits although senior airline pilots have it pretty close to ideal.
I was a road warrior in my late 20s. I traveled to all 50 states. I would tack on a few days here or there if I was going to an area I wanted to explore. Cheap economy flights and Super 8 motels. Nothing glamorous.
This was in the early 90s before any modern technology existed. I had an MCI calling card to call home. Sometimes that didn't even work as a bank of...
I was a road warrior in my late 20s. I traveled to all 50 states. I would tack on a few days here or there if I was going to an area I wanted to explore. Cheap economy flights and Super 8 motels. Nothing glamorous.
This was in the early 90s before any modern technology existed. I had an MCI calling card to call home. Sometimes that didn't even work as a bank of ten pay phones in the airport would all be in use. This was before TSA so anyone could come into the airport and many times I didn't even have a place to sit.
On the upside, no one was staring at their phones (they didn't exist), and I frequently met nice young ladies at the airport bar.
And if you have an entry to mid level job with a large corporation, their policies probably make traveling much less fun. They can often be cheap with hotels and even require you to stay at a specific property, as opposed to giving you a maximum amount you can spend per night. And they can even require you to book in a tool such as Concur where the travel agency charges your credit card. That...
And if you have an entry to mid level job with a large corporation, their policies probably make traveling much less fun. They can often be cheap with hotels and even require you to stay at a specific property, as opposed to giving you a maximum amount you can spend per night. And they can even require you to book in a tool such as Concur where the travel agency charges your credit card. That means, if you have a card like an Amex Platinum card, you couldn't get 5x points for flights, as the charge isn't in the airline category.
"That means, if you have a card like an Amex Platinum card, you couldn't get 5x points for flights, as the charge isn't in the airline category."
Yup.
And many companies require that you use a certain company's or bank's credit card for corporate spend, meaning no extra points for any spend for anything, extremely poor customer service, and frustration with the issuing card company.
@Sonofdad,
I am in what would be considered upper management and those restrictions you listed exist for all of us except for the BoD.
We do have preferred airline and hotel agreements that we must use, and believe you me, they must always be the least cost. Those circuitous routings that some posters here boast about to rack up miles are forbidden and cannot be done via our travel portal. We also have corporate...
@Sonofdad,
I am in what would be considered upper management and those restrictions you listed exist for all of us except for the BoD.
We do have preferred airline and hotel agreements that we must use, and believe you me, they must always be the least cost. Those circuitous routings that some posters here boast about to rack up miles are forbidden and cannot be done via our travel portal. We also have corporate travel cards issued to all of us who travel and must be used when on company business. And there are no points or hotel loyalty attached to the card.
@Justindev: So, the answer to Ben's question ("Which jobs...") is "Director of a Fortune 100 company"?
"...is 'Director of a Fortune 100 company'?"
To be clear, many companies have "director" as a title for those who are higher up the management food chain than most others, so there are lots of directors at lots of Fortune 100 companies.
What juntindev is talking about specifically is the BOARD of Directors, and being on the board is not really a way to rack up travel experiences and points (many/most(?) boards meet the required...
"...is 'Director of a Fortune 100 company'?"
To be clear, many companies have "director" as a title for those who are higher up the management food chain than most others, so there are lots of directors at lots of Fortune 100 companies.
What juntindev is talking about specifically is the BOARD of Directors, and being on the board is not really a way to rack up travel experiences and points (many/most(?) boards meet the required minimum amount, which in the US is 1x/quarter = 4x/year).
So, no, being on a BoD is only good for frequent travel if one is on many boards.
Assistant VP, VP, Senior VP, Director, Managing Director, Senior Director, etc., then c-suite for each line of business, then another c-suite for the company, then the board, and the real power is with majority shareholders, who often are in the midst of an intra-family business and personal dispute... needlessly hierarchical, incredibly inefficient, and unlike the first Gilded Age, none of these folks are building libraries, universities, or public housing for anyone.
Assistant VP, VP, Senior VP, Director, Managing Director, Senior Director, etc., then c-suite for each line of business, then another c-suite for the company, then the board, and the real power is with majority shareholders, who often are in the midst of an intra-family business and personal dispute... needlessly hierarchical, incredibly inefficient, and unlike the first Gilded Age, none of these folks are building libraries, universities, or public housing for anyone.
@1990
Or you can have a flatter structure: AVP, VP, SVP, EVP (C-suite), then BoD. But you are right, few of us are building any such things for anyone.
@Travel @Snic
Thanks Travel. Spot on.
I fortunately am passionate about my job, having literally spent decades setting myself up to gain the necessary qualifications for the position. I travel every week. This week, it's five days of work in Nebraska, next week four days in Dallas, the week after that has a flight into Nashville and a drive into rural Tennessee. And the biggest benefit is to get another party to simply fund your travel and my pursuit of miles...
I fortunately am passionate about my job, having literally spent decades setting myself up to gain the necessary qualifications for the position. I travel every week. This week, it's five days of work in Nebraska, next week four days in Dallas, the week after that has a flight into Nashville and a drive into rural Tennessee. And the biggest benefit is to get another party to simply fund your travel and my pursuit of miles and points and therefore elite status. I've divorced myself of any responsibilities (no SO, no pets, no plants, and I rent) in order to spend guilt-free weeks on the road doing what I enjoy. It's not for everyone, but it is for me.
I was a management consultant and I flew short distances weekly, on a generous budget, which was a great life for me because I a) was single b) hated the city I technically lived in and c) had friends all over whom I could travel to see on the weekends instead of going home
Now I am married and travel to New York most weeks for my job, and it's a lot less appealing than it used to be
You describe the 'expectation vs reality' well. If someone is paying you to go somewhere, they're paying for performance and not pleasure.
I'm in my mid 20's, and I have a travel heavy career. 6 months to a year at a time, back and forth from a single city (US and Intl.). When people ask "oh how do you like XYZ City", most of the time my response is "its a city". Monday night to...
You describe the 'expectation vs reality' well. If someone is paying you to go somewhere, they're paying for performance and not pleasure.
I'm in my mid 20's, and I have a travel heavy career. 6 months to a year at a time, back and forth from a single city (US and Intl.). When people ask "oh how do you like XYZ City", most of the time my response is "its a city". Monday night to Thursday night or Friday morning, most of my time between arrival and departure is in a meeting room, hotel, rideshare, or hopefully sometimes a gym. As long as there are convenient flights, a desirable hotel within budget, and plentiful rideshares, I'm happy - that's all I have time to base my review on.
I'm fortunate enough (depending on perspective) to have a brain wired in just the right spicy way to enjoy this. However, most of my colleagues are burnt out of getting any enjoyment from the nights away from home, and it requires putting significant parts of your personal life on pause.
I'm also fortunate to have a very reasonable travel policy with few limits on weekend flex travel. Most large company travel policies will mandate lowest cost direct routing, or push other limitations which can make a schedule like this even less manageable/desirable.
Spending someone else's money can be fun, but you're paying with your own time.
I like 'spicey' too. In fact, the 'spicer' the better.
Try to take advantage of those weekend flex policies while you still can, especially for the international trips to better places. If you end up in Singapore, Bali is just a 2 hour flight, even for a night or two, that's better than waiting until you 'retire.'
They say, get out of New York (City) before you become 'hard,' and get out of...
I like 'spicey' too. In fact, the 'spicer' the better.
Try to take advantage of those weekend flex policies while you still can, especially for the international trips to better places. If you end up in Singapore, Bali is just a 2 hour flight, even for a night or two, that's better than waiting until you 'retire.'
They say, get out of New York (City) before you become 'hard,' and get out of California before you become 'soft'... wonder what it is for other cities around the world.
This is my current week:
Day 1. Fly from BOS to SEA. Drive 3 hours to hotel to check in.
Day 2. Drive hour for a 3 hour meeting. Drive 3.5 hours back to SEA. Arrive 730p, check in.
Day 3: fly from SEA to PHX. Drive 3 hours, check in.
Day 4: drive 1:15, 5 hours of meetings. Drive 4 hours to PHX. Arrive at 7, check in
Day 5: 6a flight PHX-BOS
Comment sent from the skies over Taos, New Mexico. Glamour!
Jeff, you gotta arrange for flights closer to your actual destinations; 3 hour drives from Seattle and Phoenix… like, they got flights to Spokane, Portland, Vancouver, Tucson, Page, and Albuquerque, too. Safe travels, either way!
Road warrior jobs are not easy. Flight doesn't get into 1AM because of a five hour delay? Too bad, you're expected to be onsite, ready at 8AM. Flying to Europe, expect to go right to work the same day.
Spouse/SO is upset with you because they have to handle all the family matters while supposedly you're having a great time. Better learn how to deal with it.
In flight, be expected to answer emails...
Road warrior jobs are not easy. Flight doesn't get into 1AM because of a five hour delay? Too bad, you're expected to be onsite, ready at 8AM. Flying to Europe, expect to go right to work the same day.
Spouse/SO is upset with you because they have to handle all the family matters while supposedly you're having a great time. Better learn how to deal with it.
In flight, be expected to answer emails and/or work on presentations. Because of more cash paid upgrades expect to be doing that in coach unless you want to pay out of pocket for an upgrade.
In the consulting world many companies refuse to pay for 100% onsite so many of these jobs are now 50% to 70% onsite and other non critical touchpoints are done by Zoom/Teams/Google Meet. That at least gives a better quality of life.
Road warrior jobs are great for young unattached people that can regularly go on 4-5 hours of sleep a night. But then you miss out on a lot of youth oriented activities. Hanging out with friends, going to the gym every night, kicking back and watching a movie. I remember those days. I'd be in some random hotel at night working on whatever missing my friends, the time at the local gym, and having fun.
I like it now with a remote job that I can do from anywhere. I don't have the hassle of putting on a monkey suit at 8AM to stand in front of a crowd trying to keep them engaged.
If you actually worked at a top-tier law firm, you'd know that some folks do 'regularly go on that level of sleep per night' ...but I don't recommend it. (Not good for your heart.)
Not good for your heart, or your decision-making ability either. You're not doing your best for the firm or its clients if you aren't getting enough sleep. When I was a senior in finance I'd arrive at 0730 and there would be guys who'd already been there since 0600, and would boast they'd left at 2300, driven home to Scarsdale, then driven back in the morning. I discouraged this behaviour. It's unsustainable, and complete madness.
If they're taking a midday nap in their office it isn't too bad. Also these people don't drive, they are driven.
Penile, used to be driven; Goldman doesn’t even do that much anymore, unless you’re at the top.
The Wolf of Wall Street days are long over, the 2007-2008 financial crisis being the final nail in the coffin of those excesses. Stockholders disapprove of profligate spending on employee perks.
Pete, yup, madness indeed; and, that sounds less like ‘finance’ and more like ‘investment banking’ in NYC; it’s usually the lowest-level analysts (or junior attorneys) that those firms bully, churn and burn, for 1-3 years, with 6+ days a week, no vacation, slaving away 16+ hours in-office, making silly decks, or sifting through e-discover, stuff that no one ever really reads or needs. It’s basically hazing. (But, but… six figures! Big city! Wall Street! Sure...
Pete, yup, madness indeed; and, that sounds less like ‘finance’ and more like ‘investment banking’ in NYC; it’s usually the lowest-level analysts (or junior attorneys) that those firms bully, churn and burn, for 1-3 years, with 6+ days a week, no vacation, slaving away 16+ hours in-office, making silly decks, or sifting through e-discover, stuff that no one ever really reads or needs. It’s basically hazing. (But, but… six figures! Big city! Wall Street! Sure sounds good straight outta school.) After a few years of that, much of those kids move back in with their parents, become golf instructors or day-drinkers. Can’t blame ‘em. No work-life balance.
My own experience, not nearly as hectic as others. I would fly out on Wednesday at 5am arrive in Denver at 10, get to the work site at 11, work 8 hours. Sleep 5-6 hours (due to not being used to the humidity and altitude), go to work at 5:30 am, work until 2 pm, drive to the airport, catch a flight back to Texas. Usually, arriving at 10 pm or later home. I di...
My own experience, not nearly as hectic as others. I would fly out on Wednesday at 5am arrive in Denver at 10, get to the work site at 11, work 8 hours. Sleep 5-6 hours (due to not being used to the humidity and altitude), go to work at 5:30 am, work until 2 pm, drive to the airport, catch a flight back to Texas. Usually, arriving at 10 pm or later home. I di this once a week, or every other week for 2 and a half years.
Another interesting point, after working 30 days in Colorado, I had to pay Colorado income tax.
So, yeah, not that glamorous.
Warning. There are many states where working even 1 day from there means you have tax liability to that state.
Ask your accountant.
Ask you doctor whether 'worrying about things that are unlikely to happen' is right for you.