This seems like a pretty blatant violation of passenger privacy rules, and a strange thing to brag about, no?
In this post:
Son of former JetBlue CEO booked himself next to woman he liked
Reader Ben brought to my attention a story in the Sunday Times, entitled “Meet the queen of the ‘trad wives’ (and her eight children).”
It’s about Hannah Neeleman, the wife of Daniel Neeleman, who is the son of serial airline entrepreneur David Neeleman. The elder Neeleman founded a variety of airlines, most famously JetBlue, but also Azul, WestJet, and Breeze, among others.
Here’s the summary of the story in the article:
Hannah Neeleman, known to her nine million followers as Ballerina Farm, milks cows, gives birth without pain relief and breastfeeds at beauty pageants. Is this an empowering new model of womanhood — or a hammer blow for feminism?
I wouldn’t usually write about anything related to the family of airline executives, except she’s a public figure in and of herself, and has a massive following. So what does this have to do with airlines? Well, the story of their first date involves a flight, and is quite something:
He was 23 and she was nearly two years his junior when they were introduced by a mutual friend at a college basketball game. “I saw her and I was ready to go,” he says. “Sign me up. I was thinking, ‘Let’s get married.’ But she wouldn’t go on a date with me for six months.”
One day she mentioned to Daniel that she was getting the five-hour flight from Salt Lake City to New York, back to Juilliard. She didn’t realise his dad owned the airline. “So Daniel was, like, ‘I’m on that same flight!’” she says. “I remember checking in and them saying, ‘You’re 5A and you’re 5B.’ I just thought, no way, that’s crazy!” Daniel smiles: “I made a call.” He had pulled strings at JetBlue. And so began their first date.
Is there any narrative where this isn’t creepy?
Reader Ben, who brought this story to my attention, writes the following:
I find this to be incredibly creepy. At the time, David Neeleman was a few years out from having served as CEO and chairman of the board at JetBlue. I don’t know what sort of connection he still had to the company in 2011 when this flight occurred, but clearly he was connected enough that his son could get a seat assignment next to a woman he had been trying to date for six months. What an incredible breach of passenger privacy!
Now that David Neeleman is leading Breeze Airways, I have to wonder how often that airline shares passenger info with other well-connected people.
I’ve gotta say, I strongly agree here. I’m trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but “someone wouldn’t go on a date with me for six months, so I pulled some strings to sit next to her on a plane” is kind of not a great narrative.
I dunno, maybe I’m just not old fashioned enough, and there are some people who think “how charming of a gentleman to show such initiative and dedication?” In fairness, it’s worth pointing out that Neeleman’s son possibly had connections at the airline through someone other than his dad, so his dad may have had nothing to do with this.
Bottom line
David Neeleman is one of the most prolific airline CEOs. Not only is he the man behind several airlines, but he’s also a unique guy, and has a big family. His daughter-in-law has just been profiled in a big Sunday Times article, and the story of how she met her husband is an interesting one.
She wouldn’t go on a date with him for six months, so he “pulled strings” to be able to sit next to her on a flight that he found out she was taking. I guess some people might think this is a “manly” way to show initiative or something, but… hmmm?
What do you make of this story of how Neeleman met his future wife?
Life is full of stories of a man who was persistent and wound up with the girl and a great life together. It’s a good story as it appears to have worked out for them, despite the cynicism of some here, probably some of whom are part of the “neuter men” crowd.
Society needs men who will step up and be men. We suffer when they won’t or can’t due to societal pressure, so good for him sticking with it and being persistent - that’s the path to success in life.
His persistent nature and ability to control (especially women) comes with his LDS upbringing. It’s a shame she seemingly gave up her ambition for this kind of a life. I assume there is some form of payoff for her in this arrangement.
Who cares about your privacy on an airplane?? Between the TSA checkpoints, getting your groin rubbed in secondary security checks and continuous interaction with staff who know exactly who you are, why should passenger lists be private anyway?
On a side note, more women should be the "trad wife" in general. Society works a lot better when mothers raise their children and take care of the home. There is nothing at all wrong with traditional...
Who cares about your privacy on an airplane?? Between the TSA checkpoints, getting your groin rubbed in secondary security checks and continuous interaction with staff who know exactly who you are, why should passenger lists be private anyway?
On a side note, more women should be the "trad wife" in general. Society works a lot better when mothers raise their children and take care of the home. There is nothing at all wrong with traditional gender roles. It's far better than the alternative roles out there.
If she was repeatedly saying no to the date then this is stalking. Its a crime. Not to mention a breach passenger privacy data. There is nothing "manly" about this. What other personal information did he get from the airline about her? Disgusting. Its wrong all the way around but even more wrong when she had outright rejected his advances already.
I long ago found out about people trying to piece together other people’s trips by using airline and hotel contacts to do so. You can’t trust travel service providers’ employees (or management) to protect customer privacy. And if you comment about your trips in too much detail online or even go to some kind of public events where your trip details come up or your presence can be matched up with some online details, then...
I long ago found out about people trying to piece together other people’s trips by using airline and hotel contacts to do so. You can’t trust travel service providers’ employees (or management) to protect customer privacy. And if you comment about your trips in too much detail online or even go to some kind of public events where your trip details come up or your presence can be matched up with some online details, then it isn’t hard for others to piece together details of your trip and arrange to sit close to you or even to try to wreck your travel plans.
They may say “sharing is caring”, but sharing too much is not caring about yourself enough to keep the dogs at bay.
Just another story of privileged life. They live in Kansas Utah, where the rich from Park City go when they're tired of the Park City crowd. She clearly didn't care about his seating move (and likely he wasn't even on that flight until he knew he'd have 5 hours to convince her to date him) do what does it really matter? Nepotism is still a thing, unfortunately, but I really couldn't care less about this family. If she didn't care about her privacy then why should I?
Slow news day per usual for Ben. Congrats on the ad revenue from my click though. Stick to regular airline news because tabloid stuff isn’t your thing.
Yawn, Slow news day.
As for "privacy violations" the guy already knew she was on the flight. He probably called the executive concierge at JetBlue and requested a seat next to his "girlfriend" and they happily complied.
This only would have been creepy if it was someone she didn't know trying to get next to her, similar to the Erin Andrews creep who booked hotel rooms next to her. She had no clue who he was.
Its pretty creepy that some guy she had been rejecting takes a flight and sits next to her with the sole purpose of having her as a captive audience.
PS: And why is the rubbish appearing now, it appears to have happened years ago? Seriously.... what's going on? Can there be relevance or is it just a slow day in travel?
It was just in the Sunday Times last week and then it got brought to his attention. Would you prefer another article about the same credit card he has written about fifty times already? Its not easy to come up with non-stop content. Give the guy a break. Most of his articles are not like this, which is more than can be said for some travel bloggers.
1. Whoever this woman is, she's nothing but an attention seeker and why does anyone care 2. This is a story for the National Enquirer and is tabloid rubbish and I'd question why any consideration should have been given for it being on this blog. It seems to be a recent trend with this blog which once provided only useful information, and now only every so often, and was recommended to me by my travel...
1. Whoever this woman is, she's nothing but an attention seeker and why does anyone care 2. This is a story for the National Enquirer and is tabloid rubbish and I'd question why any consideration should have been given for it being on this blog. It seems to be a recent trend with this blog which once provided only useful information, and now only every so often, and was recommended to me by my travel agent. Give me Executive Traveller from Australia any day over this.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out, mate.
hmm.... isn't this type of story one for Gary at VFTW ?
Oh boy you made me laugh out loud! I stopped reading VFTW awhile ago, it was all crap like this story. Good call on your comparison!
No there needs to be an allegation of racism or video of a fight for it to be covered over there
I mean in dating there are many things that go borderline between creepy and charming. In the end she enjoyed the flight enough to marry the guy, so we can suppose he did a judgement call that this is in her interest, which makes it fine. I think the actual problem is, that the company or someone in it enabled this, which definitely violated her privacy.
Super creepy and just the tip of the iceberg on how controlling he is based on the rest of the article. He clearly sees women as a prize he deserves.
It was creepy in 2012 as well, although I do agree that it would have been seen as charming in a 1995 rom com. But many of those aged terribly, and frankly were not really realistic at the time.
It seems creepy to me, even more BECAUSE they knew each other from before. However, when I recall movies from my childhood decades ago, similar situations (guy chasing a girl in a pushy way) were usual rom-com topics.
Im like minded about your thought around if this was in a room com, he would be rooted to be on the flight.
IRL, privileged people do not have as many red lines and possibly more red flags.
*rom com
Not surprised the commenters who think this ISNT creepy AF and that because it happened in 2011 it’s ok appear to be men.
^^^^
bingo
Maybe just a little bit sexist, Megan and Ben? :)
Hey look, it's one of the guys I was talking about
Ok to be sexist long as it’s the right gender?
There are of course also creepy women who will do creepy things to try to land “the perfect man for me”. It’s just the consequence of one kind of creep is typically potentially more physically threatening to bodily integrity than the other kind of creep, but both kinds of creeps probably tend to be poor in respecting other individuals’ boundaries. If this incident is as reported here, the former airline CEO’s son could have put...
There are of course also creepy women who will do creepy things to try to land “the perfect man for me”. It’s just the consequence of one kind of creep is typically potentially more physically threatening to bodily integrity than the other kind of creep, but both kinds of creeps probably tend to be poor in respecting other individuals’ boundaries. If this incident is as reported here, the former airline CEO’s son could have put in jeopardy the employment and/or reputation of the contact “just doing a little favor”.
“I remember checking in and them saying, ‘You’re 5A and you’re 5B.”
They knew each other, sounds like they travelled to the airport together, and checked in together. Who cares.
Probably less creepy than surprising Toby on his last flight.
I’m really surprised how many commenters find this ok.
To each their own, I suppose. Seems like the ultimate in creep behavior to me
Sounds like the story- man wants to date attractive woman but she declines. Then when she finds out who he is (and is wealthy) then everything changes. Now she has 8 kids and he came from a family of 10.
Write something that’s useful to your reader Ben. Holy shit you’re dense nowadays.
They had a pre-existing connection. You don’t know whether she shared her seat with him. Stick with what helps your readers please and don’t harakiri you site’s credibility.
The article literally quotes the dude saying he made a call and used his connections to secure a seat assignment next to her. Nice try, though.
How does a puff piece harakiri the site's credibility? I like the break. How about just read the articles you're interested in and skip the rest?
Credit where credit is due.
One person’s resourcefulness is another person’s incompetence.
There are many less imaginative ways in which to endear oneself to others.
Ben, your personal story of somebody booking next to you is way worse and different. This JetBlue story is between people with a preexisting connection.
When a woman won’t date you, sometimes there’s still hope. This JetBlue guy obviously read the room correctly (crucially—given the data privacy norms of the time, not the present day).
Personally I tried to date a woman for a year and she constantly rejected me. Oh well, she was not...
Ben, your personal story of somebody booking next to you is way worse and different. This JetBlue story is between people with a preexisting connection.
When a woman won’t date you, sometimes there’s still hope. This JetBlue guy obviously read the room correctly (crucially—given the data privacy norms of the time, not the present day).
Personally I tried to date a woman for a year and she constantly rejected me. Oh well, she was not very hot. (Neither am I, we were evenly match.) Now guess what happened in the same year? I made partner. At a V10. I also met a different woman who is very beautiful and FULL of rizz. Unfortunately she is married so I need to wait for her to get divorced, which will probably never happen. Sigh!!
This comment is a good parody of the type of bizarre personality flaws littering the rosters of "top" law firms. The username is an excellent little insider detail as well. Top tier work on this one.
You’re saying top law firms have some of the cattiest people around? I think such people have plenty of company in other industries/sectors too.
Given that they knew each other and she was comfortable sharing her travel plans with him, I'd downgrade it from "creepy" to "pushy". And given that he apparently shared his seat assignment prior to the flight, she could have changed hers or changed flights to avoid him. She was warned; it wasn't an ambush.
Daniel invented rizz.
Another classic example of the “you’re sweet!/uhh HR?!” meme
Guy is rich and good looking. Plus they had already met. I doubt she found it that invasive, probably more romantic (evidenced by the fact they’re still married)
Now if he was some broke ugly guy….or went about it in a creepy way like Ben’s stalker…
Awe. How romantic. It's like a Tom Hanks & Meg Ryan rom-com!
Almost reminds me of the cronies that Leo Mullin brought to Delta when he became CEO. Several of the executives that he brought in to guide Delta into bankruptcy had kids and family members who bumped PAYING PASSENGERS from their first class seats so that they could get guaranteed non-rev seats and...at the "front of the bus"! When it was found out, both the press and the employees raised holy hell. Those actions helped Jerry...
Almost reminds me of the cronies that Leo Mullin brought to Delta when he became CEO. Several of the executives that he brought in to guide Delta into bankruptcy had kids and family members who bumped PAYING PASSENGERS from their first class seats so that they could get guaranteed non-rev seats and...at the "front of the bus"! When it was found out, both the press and the employees raised holy hell. Those actions helped Jerry Grinstein into firing the lot of them, much to the delight of all!
I mean they married and still are married right? Obviously this is a happy ending, girls like when boys take charge and do something spontaneous like that. Oh yah power and money also helps. Let’s be real here.
This should be titled : The extent men go to, to lose half their stuff.
You are apllying today's standards and perceptions of data privacy to something that happened in 2011.
@ T Car -- Maybe I'm missing something, but what do you perceive to be different about standards in 2011? I don't think anyone thought it was okay to access someone's reservation details without consent so you could sit next to them, since they wouldn't otherwise go on a date with you.
I'll take it a step further -- prior to 2011 I had a (creepy) blog reader who somehow accessed by reservation information, and...
@ T Car -- Maybe I'm missing something, but what do you perceive to be different about standards in 2011? I don't think anyone thought it was okay to access someone's reservation details without consent so you could sit next to them, since they wouldn't otherwise go on a date with you.
I'll take it a step further -- prior to 2011 I had a (creepy) blog reader who somehow accessed by reservation information, and booked himself on a flight next to me. I can definitely tell you I wasn't comfortable with that.
From Ben: “@ T Car -- Maybe I'm missing something, but what do you perceive to be different about standards in 2011?”
Ben, I truly can see arguments on both sides of this discussion - but really!!? Standards are very very (maybe one more very) different today from 2011.
Is your argument seriously that, in 2011, it was OK for airlines to share passenger seating data with well-connected individuals so they could sit next to romantic targets? That's not my impression of where the industry was back then.
Do we actually know any data was shared... She told him she was on the flight. Creepy rich boy could have just said, "Hey, move my seat next to the milk farm chick" to his frat bro in rezz and bam. No secret information given at all. It's not like he wouldn't have seen her seat assignment when boarding.
2011 standards aren’t different than now. The creepy things of relevance that could land a person in hot water in 2011 can do so today. And such things which can land a person in hot water today could also do so in this regard in 2011.
For what it’s worth, most people have no clue how easy it is for someone to be identified or trailed; and it takes advance planning and a diligent effort...
2011 standards aren’t different than now. The creepy things of relevance that could land a person in hot water in 2011 can do so today. And such things which can land a person in hot water today could also do so in this regard in 2011.
For what it’s worth, most people have no clue how easy it is for someone to be identified or trailed; and it takes advance planning and a diligent effort to effectively frustrate wannabe stalkers ability and keep them out of your space.
In a movie, this would be incredibly romantic.
This is an odd take for something as innocuous as two people who knew each other previously sitting together. I can do the same thing by just having a last name of a passenger and call the airline to make the seat assignment.
Especially an odd take from someone who has had far, far “creepier” things happen in their tenure of air travel.
@ Charles -- "I can do the same thing by just having a last name of a passenger and call the airline to make the seat assignment." "Can" and "should" isn't the same, though. You also "can" follow someone home from a restaurant to their home. That doesn't mean you should. Accessing someone's reservation information without their consent is a big no-no in the industry.
They knew each other previously, Ben. This is akin to finding out a colleague is on the same return flight from a conference and phoning the airline to see if seats can be assigned together.
Not sure why you are infatuated with making this innocuous gesture into something “creepy” like following a stranger home.
Ben,
Could you be judging the subject gentleman as being the same type of creep who trolled you?
One bad individual does not mean that others should be tarred with the same brush.
Maybe he is just trying to say that this was the story that he just called the airline, and the article is making it sound more like a dream story.
There is no mutual exclusivity between having prior acquaintance and creepy behavior.
Most creepy behavior and violence takes place where the perpetrator and victim already know each other from previous social exchanges.
Not creepy. They were clearly already friends, and judging by the outcome he was reading the situation properly. Slightly concerning someone at the airline did that for him, though.
Also @ray way to explain to a woman how to live her own life.
The whole story gives us the idea of how controlling that guy is over her. She gave up ballet at Juilliard so they could live *his* dream of living at a ranch. They have ranch staff to help out with the agricultural labour but he wouldn’t allow her nannies to help with domestic duties. She wanted to go to Greece for her birthday and he gave her… an egg apron.
She gave up her pursuits...
The whole story gives us the idea of how controlling that guy is over her. She gave up ballet at Juilliard so they could live *his* dream of living at a ranch. They have ranch staff to help out with the agricultural labour but he wouldn’t allow her nannies to help with domestic duties. She wanted to go to Greece for her birthday and he gave her… an egg apron.
She gave up her pursuits to fulfil his dreams and is barely rewarded for it. A cage made of gold is still a cage. A good husband would’ve supported his wife’s endeavours, not impose his own upon them. Yikes, oy vey, and whatever other expression is necessary
People saying this was innocuous are weirdos. This lady gave birth 8 times and was only allowed to use an epidural once (the one time her husband wasn’t around). Never heard of her before this article, but I truly find it unfortunate she met this guy. Though it’s on her of marrying him. In an old blog, she posted that he was happy she didn’t win a beauty pageant. Probably because she would gain more...
People saying this was innocuous are weirdos. This lady gave birth 8 times and was only allowed to use an epidural once (the one time her husband wasn’t around). Never heard of her before this article, but I truly find it unfortunate she met this guy. Though it’s on her of marrying him. In an old blog, she posted that he was happy she didn’t win a beauty pageant. Probably because she would gain more attention which in turn would take her attention away from him. Yikes.
I would agree - his religion puts woman secondary. She is above in looks, he is below average. He picked her so he would have fair skin, blond children - and made her a baby machine. Appears things turned out in the end - they have a beautiful family, but I can certaining understand why she turned him down at first.