A couple of days ago, I posed the question of whether the government shutdown is about to “break” our air travel ecosystem, given increasing staffing issues with air traffic control and security. Along those lines, United States Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy made some noteworthy comments on Tuesday, and a reader has a take on this that I think is worth sharing…
In this post:
Government threatens to close some airspace next week
A reader shared the following comment with me, which I’ll share in its entirety:
Ben, are you going to write about this weird threat SecDOT issued? He framed it like a warning, but it was clearly a threat. Closing airspace, even in the midst of this shutdown, would be unprecedented and unwarranted. To wit:
In January 2019, ten controllers called in sick. LaGuardia shut down. Hours later, Trump ended the shutdown. His aides admitted that the chaos in aviation forced the deal.
The FAA has never closed airspace for staffing reasons, only for security or weather. Threatening closures a week in advance while clearly blaming Democrats is just politics, not operations.
Republicans control everything yet trail 52-42 in polls regarding shutdown blame. The administration acknowledges it is inflicting pain to pressure Democrats. Trump said, “We are shutting down Democrat programs… they’re getting killed.”
So Duffy creates a crisis, announces it ahead of time, and assigns blame before it happens. This is clever if you are okay with using national airspace to win a political battle you are losing.
For context, this is in reference to comments Duffy made about air traffic controllers getting an email pay stub this Thursday indicating that they’re not getting a paycheck for a second time. To quote Duffy:
“Many of the controllers said, ‘a lot of us can navigate missing one paycheck, none of us can manage missing two paychecks.’ So if you bring us to a week from today, Democrats, you will see mass chaos, you will see mass flight delays, you will see mass cancelations, and you may see us close certain parts of the airspace, because we just cannot manage it because we don’t have the air traffic controllers.”
My take on Sean Duffy’s airspace closure comments
For the purposes of this discussion, let’s ignore that some air traffic controllers make over $200K per year (often living in cities that aren’t terribly expensive), but “none” of them can afford to miss more than one paycheck. I realize we’re not good at living within our means in the United States, but oy.
So, what do I make of Duffy’s comments, and the above theory? As I wrote about a couple of days ago, aviation is absolutely the thing that could cause action to be taken regarding the shutdown, since it’s one of the most direct ways that the public is impacted by this. People don’t like anyone messing with their travel plans.
Conceptually, I agree with Duffy regarding his belief that our aviation system will “break” soon, and it might coincide with the second set of missed paychecks. After all, this government shutdown has now been the longest in history.
But here’s the thing I find concerning — it’s one thing if I say that, as a dude who writes stuff on the internet for a living, and nothing more. It’s a little different when the Transportation Secretary says it, especially when air traffic controllers legally have to come to work.
It’s almost like Duffy is signaling to them “hey, next week is a good time to break the law and not go to work,” while repeatedly blaming Democrats. The threat of airspace closing also just seems a bit much. It’s one thing to have delays and cancelations, but having the government close airspace? That’s a drastic and unprecedented prediction.
The problem is, I don’t actually see which party will budge here. We obviously need compromise, but that’s just not happening. From a public perception standpoint, I think most people would agree it would be idiotic for the Democrats to just fully give in, as the Trump administration has been pushing for.
The frustration so many people have had with the Democratic party is how weak they’ve been for years, and just fully giving in several weeks into the shutdown certainly won’t be a “win.” Furthermore, at least based on all the polls I’ve seen (and if there are reputable ones I’m missing that paint a different picture, please tell me) public perception is that Republicans are more to blame than Democrats. So this definitely doesn’t seem like an area where Democrats would be well advised to back down.
Bottom line
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy predicts that our aviation ecosystem will no longer function properly as of next week, and even suggests the government could shut down airspace, which would be an unprecedented move, for those purposes. We’ll see how this plays out, but I don’t think anyone can say with certainty that this isn’t a political play.
What do you make of Duffy’s comments about potential airspace closures?
@Dusty: Can you name any country that China invaded and bombed in its history, except invading Vietnam in 1979 but it quickly pulled back to its border? As for Taiwan, there is a remote chance that our government will risk engaging in the war with China to defend Taiwan. Just look at Biden when Russia invaded Ukraine: He retreated the US embassy to near the Moldavian border for safety reason!!! China is not a militarily...
@Dusty: Can you name any country that China invaded and bombed in its history, except invading Vietnam in 1979 but it quickly pulled back to its border? As for Taiwan, there is a remote chance that our government will risk engaging in the war with China to defend Taiwan. Just look at Biden when Russia invaded Ukraine: He retreated the US embassy to near the Moldavian border for safety reason!!! China is not a militarily aggressive country. It laser focuses on long term economic security. The US military might is best demonstrated by bombing and threatening other countries with nukes without merit and mercy. Domestic infightings and animosity of each other are pulling us down the rat holes, not necessarily foreign aggression.
@Globetrotter
You're forgetting that the PRC also invaded and annexed Tibet in the 1950s, after Tibet had been de facto independent and self-governing for 40 years. The PRC is far from peaceful. After their failure in Vietnam, they've been engaged in grey-zone tactics for the following decades to accomplish territorial aims. Both on land, see their military engagements against India in the Himalayas, and at sea with them taking over the Paracels, some of...
@Globetrotter
You're forgetting that the PRC also invaded and annexed Tibet in the 1950s, after Tibet had been de facto independent and self-governing for 40 years. The PRC is far from peaceful. After their failure in Vietnam, they've been engaged in grey-zone tactics for the following decades to accomplish territorial aims. Both on land, see their military engagements against India in the Himalayas, and at sea with them taking over the Paracels, some of the Spratlys, and engaging in ramming and water cannon attacks against Filipino coast guard ships in the area and off Scarborough shoal. The PRC's literal, publicly stated policy is that Taiwan will at some point be re-unified with the PRC and that they are willing to use force to do it.
There will not be a shooting war between the US and China UNLESS China takes aggressive moves first, and even then, with Trump in charge its unlikely we'd lift a finger to help Taiwan. I'll also note that we haven't been threatening to nuke or bomb Russia despite their aggression and utterly depraved behavior in Ukraine, instead Trump has taken every action he can to placate them and even Biden placed heavy restrictions on what aid was sent and how it was used.
I agree with some of the other comments. You do not want this to be political but on the other hand you bring up topics that there is no way to not talk about politics. If the administration said it, we should assume that they are at least considering the idea.
Its amazing. There was a great deal of chat about this site becoming political. And this topic is exactly as political as one can be.
I don't judge your politics but am amazed that one minor judge in some little town can over-rule a presidential order. I don't understand how a minority party can close the government and disenfranchise all it's workers. And get supported.
This would be a good time for a...
Its amazing. There was a great deal of chat about this site becoming political. And this topic is exactly as political as one can be.
I don't judge your politics but am amazed that one minor judge in some little town can over-rule a presidential order. I don't understand how a minority party can close the government and disenfranchise all it's workers. And get supported.
This would be a good time for a foreign power to attack. Similar to attacking Israel on the biggest religious holiday in the year.
The minority party isn't closing the government—they're using standard legislative leverage that Republicans used identically in 2013 and 2018-2019. The difference? Democrats are demanding healthcare protections 72% of Americans support, while Republicans previously demanded unpopular policies and lost both times.
Republicans control the White House, House, and Senate. They can pass their CR with the nuclear option (which they've already used this year for Trump priorities). They choose not to because they're losing the political...
The minority party isn't closing the government—they're using standard legislative leverage that Republicans used identically in 2013 and 2018-2019. The difference? Democrats are demanding healthcare protections 72% of Americans support, while Republicans previously demanded unpopular policies and lost both times.
Republicans control the White House, House, and Senate. They can pass their CR with the nuclear option (which they've already used this year for Trump priorities). They choose not to because they're losing the political fight (52-42 in blame polls) and need a scapegoat.
As for foreign attacks: our military is still defending the country. What's actually weakening us is Republicans choosing to manufacture aviation chaos and freeze critical infrastructure rather than negotiate or use their parliamentary power to govern.
Blaming the minority when the majority holds all the power isn't a civics lesson—it's an excuse for incompetence.
>I don't judge your politics but am amazed that one minor judge in some little town can over-rule a presidential order.
Checks and balances. The point of the courts is to minimize harm. So if the executive is abusing its authority, OF FREAKING COURSE the podunk town judge where the harm occurred can tell the POTUS to knock it off.
>I don't understand how a minority party can close the government and disenfranchise all...
>I don't judge your politics but am amazed that one minor judge in some little town can over-rule a presidential order.
Checks and balances. The point of the courts is to minimize harm. So if the executive is abusing its authority, OF FREAKING COURSE the podunk town judge where the harm occurred can tell the POTUS to knock it off.
>I don't understand how a minority party can close the government and disenfranchise all it's workers.
For one, you're approaching this the wrong way. The majority party tried to rule like it had a supermajority when it doesn't. It refused to compromise, it refused to negotiate. The result is what you see before you. Republicans can't govern.
>This would be a good time for a foreign power to attack.
Who would? Russia? They can't even conquer Ukraine. China? They're not going to risk annihilating their own armed forces before even trying to take Taiwan. The navy and air force might not be getting paid but it doesn't mean that they can't rain unholy hell on any. This is just pure stupidity masquerading as fearmongering.
Ben, regarding the impact of a 10% reduction (assuming the controllers continue working), am I missing something here? Take JFK for example. It has 1,200 flights per day, so a 10% reduction would be 120 canceled flights, right? But 70 passenger airlines fly in and out of the airport every day. That averages about 2 canceled flights per airline. Other than those passengers on the canceled flights, would anyone notice? Unless I'm way off base,...
Ben, regarding the impact of a 10% reduction (assuming the controllers continue working), am I missing something here? Take JFK for example. It has 1,200 flights per day, so a 10% reduction would be 120 canceled flights, right? But 70 passenger airlines fly in and out of the airport every day. That averages about 2 canceled flights per airline. Other than those passengers on the canceled flights, would anyone notice? Unless I'm way off base, the threat of a reduction is worse than the reality. Please correct me if I am wrong.
This is all because of the Democrats this their shutdown.
You're an ignorant cuck - you own all 3 branches of government. Nice try, mental midget.
Republicans control the White House, House, and Senate. They can pass their CR with the nuclear option without Democratic votes. They won't.
Democrats are demanding healthcare subsidies that 72% of Americans support and that primarily benefit Republican districts (57% of recipients live in GOP districts).
When you control all three branches but refuse to either negotiate or use your power to pass legislation, blaming the minority is just admitting you can't govern. That's why Republicans...
Republicans control the White House, House, and Senate. They can pass their CR with the nuclear option without Democratic votes. They won't.
Democrats are demanding healthcare subsidies that 72% of Americans support and that primarily benefit Republican districts (57% of recipients live in GOP districts).
When you control all three branches but refuse to either negotiate or use your power to pass legislation, blaming the minority is just admitting you can't govern. That's why Republicans trail 52-42 in shutdown blame polls.
The Republicans could end the shutdown today if they just acted in good faith and didn't hold this country hostage.
Also, Trump said "a shutdown means the president is weak." Well said, DJT.
Good faith! GOP?
How is agreeing to take legal residents taxes to pay for illegal immigrants health care holding the country hostage?
The democrats could end the shutdown today if they just acted in good faith and didn't hold this country hostage.
Republicans could end the shutdown today by negotiating with Democrats or using the nuclear option to pass their bill without Democratic votes. Instead, they're threatening airspace closures, froze $28 billion in blue state infrastructure, and bailed out Argentina with $20 billion while claiming there's no money for SNAP. Democrats are demanding healthcare subsidies that 72% of Americans support, primarily benefiting Republican constituencies (57% of ACA recipients live in GOP districts). When you control the White...
Republicans could end the shutdown today by negotiating with Democrats or using the nuclear option to pass their bill without Democratic votes. Instead, they're threatening airspace closures, froze $28 billion in blue state infrastructure, and bailed out Argentina with $20 billion while claiming there's no money for SNAP. Democrats are demanding healthcare subsidies that 72% of Americans support, primarily benefiting Republican constituencies (57% of ACA recipients live in GOP districts). When you control the White House, House, and Senate but trail 52-42 in shutdown blame polls, calling the minority party's leverage "hostage-taking" is just projection. Republicans have the power to govern without Democrats. They're choosing not to.
The Democrats are terrorists on this situation and you don't negotiate with a minority.
AndyS is just another MAGA incel w/undescended testicles, thus his anger
As someone not from the US (thankfully). God damn you're a moron.
Agreed, Mike. And, based on his comment history here and elsewhere, AndyS is also a bigot.
AndyS is demonstrating how Donald Trump is such a bad drug for the Republican Party. He gave them a temporary electoral advantage, and his long-term poisoning, the party toward its own constituents and the rest of America, possibly for a very long time.
Well said, yet again, All Due Respect. Donald Trump single-handedly ended the GOP. It's now just his party, and it will disappear with him. We just have to keep fighting the good fight until that day finally comes. All we have to do is 'try.'
In order for the Good Guys to act in good faith, the Repugnants would have to do the same. The chances of that happening are zero. And your demonstration of your lack of intelligence just firms up my belief that everyone who owns a MAGA hat should be placed in protective custody somewhere where they can't hurt anyone. I'm thinking we rent a chunk of the Northwest Territories from Canada.
The people who are being held hostage are the ones that will lose their health care(millions of people).
Maybe your company pays your health care. So, just continue one being a worthless person. FYI, probably moe GOP will lose Healthcare than GOP. Feel stupid now?
The people who are being held hostage are the ones that will lose their health care(millions of people).
Maybe your company pays your health care. So, just continue one being a worthless person. FYI, probably moe GOP will lose Healthcare than GOP. Feel stupid now?
"Let us triple the price of healthcare or we'll ruin Thanksgiving" is exactly the sort of argument I would expect from this regime, but at some point, there isn't any legitimacy left.
Nice misinformation, this is why democrats still exist people clowns like you spread their false propaganda.
AndyS, you're the one spreading misinformation and false propaganda on here.
Donald Trump was correct when he said: "If you say who gets fired, it always has to be the top. Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president's the leader, and he's got to get everybody in a room, and he's got to lead."
Maybe, your guy should actually start to 'lead.'
Please go away
TProphet - Well put. GQP is blocking a CR without healthcare protections because premiums will more than double (114% increase) when subsidies expire December 31st. Duffy is threatening airspace closures next week while explicitly blaming Democrats. They don't care that Americans (many of them their supporters) will face skyrocketing healthcare costs, and they are manufacturing a crisis, not warning about one. Republicans control all three branches and could pass their CR with the nuclear option,...
TProphet - Well put. GQP is blocking a CR without healthcare protections because premiums will more than double (114% increase) when subsidies expire December 31st. Duffy is threatening airspace closures next week while explicitly blaming Democrats. They don't care that Americans (many of them their supporters) will face skyrocketing healthcare costs, and they are manufacturing a crisis, not warning about one. Republicans control all three branches and could pass their CR with the nuclear option, but choose threats instead. Who's holding Thanksgiving hostage?
AndyS - Which part is misinformation? That enhanced ACA subsidies expire December 31st? That premiums will increase 114% on average without them? That 57% of ACA recipients live in Republican districts? That Duffy threatened airspace closures while pre-blaming Democrats? All documented facts with sources. Calling facts "propaganda" because you don't like them isn't an argument.
This should be proof to everyone: Trump has absolutely no idea what he's doing. He lives in an alternate reality of FOX ragebait. I can't begin to describe how utterly dumb it is to publicly state you're killing SNAP right before Thanksgiving to own the libs, when in reality the largest segment of SNAP recipients are your own rural white base. Same for shutting down air travel right before peak holiday travel season. This isn't...
This should be proof to everyone: Trump has absolutely no idea what he's doing. He lives in an alternate reality of FOX ragebait. I can't begin to describe how utterly dumb it is to publicly state you're killing SNAP right before Thanksgiving to own the libs, when in reality the largest segment of SNAP recipients are your own rural white base. Same for shutting down air travel right before peak holiday travel season. This isn't just touching the hot stove, this is curling up on the burner and letting it sizzle.
100%. This is what happens when you pick the drama queen reality show host as POTUS. I don't think enough attention has been paid to this - the historical nature of the Trump presidency. The first drag queen POTUS.
lol trump does have drag queen energy tho
Libs own themselves, this is a democrat shutdown, they refuse to open the government.
Republicans control the White House, House, and Senate. They could pass their CR with the nuclear option without a single Democratic vote. They choose not to. When you hold all the power but can't govern, blaming the minority is just admitting incompetence. Voters agree: Republicans trail 52-42 in shutdown blame polls.
Reality disagrees with you. Trump's the one that told GOP congresscritters not to negotiate, despite not having a 60 vote majority in the Senate. He then more recently told the Senate GOP to remove the filibuster and reopen the government because he finally realized it was hurting him, not the Dems. They could do this today if they wanted, but they're desperate to have some Dem signoff on hiking people's healthcare costs to fuel their...
Reality disagrees with you. Trump's the one that told GOP congresscritters not to negotiate, despite not having a 60 vote majority in the Senate. He then more recently told the Senate GOP to remove the filibuster and reopen the government because he finally realized it was hurting him, not the Dems. They could do this today if they wanted, but they're desperate to have some Dem signoff on hiking people's healthcare costs to fuel their midterm attack ads. Republicans are trying to hike your healthcare costs. Dems are trying to prevent that. Think carefully about that, and do a little introspection.
Dusty, you are correct, and AndyS is notorious right-wing troll and disinformation agent, likely GRU. Don't take him too seriously. There are others; keep callin' 'em out when you see 'em.
I wouldn't say that he's GRU. That's military intelligence, and I have a lot of respect for those guys. He's probably SVR, and at the bottom of his class.
ORD, oof, sick burn, but, still, I wouldn't 'respect' the GRU, regardless.
ORD, oof, sick burn, but, still, I wouldn't 'respect' the GRU, regardless.
Ben, I generally support you, but this paragraph, oof: "let’s ignore that some air traffic controllers make over $200K per year (often living in cities that aren’t terribly expensive), but “none” of them can afford to miss more than one paycheck. I realize we’re not good at living within our means in the United States, but oy."
1. A luxury travel blogger who can afford Miami real estate and two children by surrogacy commenting on...
Ben, I generally support you, but this paragraph, oof: "let’s ignore that some air traffic controllers make over $200K per year (often living in cities that aren’t terribly expensive), but “none” of them can afford to miss more than one paycheck. I realize we’re not good at living within our means in the United States, but oy."
1. A luxury travel blogger who can afford Miami real estate and two children by surrogacy commenting on other people's financial situations is, uh, not a good look.
2. If there are ATCs in this position, they're likely making that salary because they're working mandatory overtime 6 days/60 hours per week. Is that worth the tradeoff?
3. For every ATC in #2, there are equal or more who make $80-100k annually and live in a high COL area, and I refer you back to point #1.
@ NN -- I hear where you're coming from, and maybe I didn't express it well. I completely understand how expensive it is to live, and why most people are in a situation where they're one or two paychecks away from being in big trouble. Life is expensive, and I'm not meaning to downplay that.
My point is, I find it a little hyperbolic to claim that *no one* can get by if they...
@ NN -- I hear where you're coming from, and maybe I didn't express it well. I completely understand how expensive it is to live, and why most people are in a situation where they're one or two paychecks away from being in big trouble. Life is expensive, and I'm not meaning to downplay that.
My point is, I find it a little hyperbolic to claim that *no one* can get by if they miss two paychecks. The median salary for air traffic controllers is around $150K, and in many cases these controllers aren't living in particularly expensive cities.
I'm not suggesting they're rolling in the dough, but it's a sad reflection of our overall system and lack of a safety net when (apparently) no one making that kind of money can get by if they miss a couple of paychecks.
I make $150k. $650 for kids in daycare. A $3k + mortgage a month on a small house. High interest rate, $$$& homeowners insurance & taxes, $600 a month car payment. Let’s not forget that 22% of my salary comes off the top for the IRS, then there is health insurance for 4, etc. etc. So no I can’t miss 2 paychecks. There is nothing left after living expenses. Forget anything for fun.
@ Johnnyboy -- I hear you, and that's totally fair. To be clear, I understand how and why a lot of people making six figures are living paycheck to paycheck. My point -- and maybe it was a dumb one -- is that I find it ridiculous to say that *no one* making that amount is not living paycheck to paycheck. For example, lots of people don't have kids, and that's obviously a major expense.
Threat, of course. That’s pretty much all they know— fear and threats. It’s not like anything they do be logged and ‘logic and reason’. They are so predictable and are tiresome.
Yet, today is still a good day, because we've only begun to fight back.
'I can see the dawn of a better day for humanity.'
"The future is in our hands. When politics speaks to you without condescension, we can usher in a new era of leadership. We will fight for you, because we are you."
"Hope is alive."
Amen to that Tom and 1990
They being the Democrats who refuse to fund the government
Incorrect, AndyS. It's the Republicans who refuse to negotiate. Democrats will come to the table and make a deal. Republicans say it's there way or nothing at all.
It's a Republican shutdown, and more Americans believe that too.
Ben, what's the best way to reach out to you for a reader question or comment? I sent you an email in July but not sure if I reached out correctly. Cheers, from a long-time OMAAT reader :)
You did it correctly. Ben receives a lot of emails from readers and can’t possibly reply to every single one if them. Just like he can’t reply to every comment.
pretty sure there is going to be meaningful dialogue starting now since we are past the elections, maybe even a very short-term clean CR (like 1-2 weeks) to bridge things through
I don't think so. The Democrats aren't budging, especially not after last night's victories.
And, Americans who are paying double for healthcare won't soon forget what the Republicans are doing to them, either. They're waking up, realizing that Trump's grifting only helps billionaires and greedy corporations, not them.
The wild thing is that once again, Trump has scared Republicans into acting against the interests of their own constituents. Red states, particularly Florida, Texas, and Georgia, have the highest enrollment rates in the ACA Marketplace and would face the largest premium increases if subsidies expired. The data also shows that Republicans represent a majority of ACA subsidy recipients, making the policy’s continuation a politically significant issue within GOP-held districts.
Trump states that the SNAP...
The wild thing is that once again, Trump has scared Republicans into acting against the interests of their own constituents. Red states, particularly Florida, Texas, and Georgia, have the highest enrollment rates in the ACA Marketplace and would face the largest premium increases if subsidies expired. The data also shows that Republicans represent a majority of ACA subsidy recipients, making the policy’s continuation a politically significant issue within GOP-held districts.
Trump states that the SNAP issue hurts Democrats more, and Democratic districts have slightly higher average SNAP participation rates, but Republicans represent a substantial number of SNAP recipients (over 7 million households). More importantly, districts with the highest participation rates (20%+) are slightly more likely to be Republican-held, and Trump-voting counties disproportionately rely on SNAP.
Tl;dr - Democrats want to fully fund SNAP and the ACA subsidies that overwhelmingly benefit Republicans, and it's common sense to come to the negotiating table and work that out.
My favorite comment is Trump saying he will not be “extorted” by the Dems. So rich given the shakedown he likes to conduct on the daily. I’m sure publicly traded companies are given $300 to build a ballroom out of the kindness of their hearts.
Again, hope we get EVERYTHING we voted for.
100%
And, last night's victories show that there is a lot of work to be done. Cannot give an inch, because Trump will take a mile. As with bullies, you gotta fight back.
Interesting how the typical right-wing trolls are real quiet this morning; perhaps, the FSB, GRU, CCP, etc., and the domestic tech-oligarchs, are finally realizing that you can't just keep lying and scapegoating, because, eventually people see through that nonsense.
Like, they're...
And, last night's victories show that there is a lot of work to be done. Cannot give an inch, because Trump will take a mile. As with bullies, you gotta fight back.
Interesting how the typical right-wing trolls are real quiet this morning; perhaps, the FSB, GRU, CCP, etc., and the domestic tech-oligarchs, are finally realizing that you can't just keep lying and scapegoating, because, eventually people see through that nonsense.
Like, they're welcome to keep micro-targeting the algorithms to blame 'trans-illegals' or whatever horrible bigoted hate, but that doesn't provide healthcare, housing, jobs.
Time for Progressives to get to work, and deliver for people. We need a new New Deal. Abundance.
Democrats won in blue states and all blue NYC. Hardly unexpected, so not sure what all the posturing this morning is all about.
The Schumer Shutdown was all about him being afraid of AOC and the other far left radicals in his own party. We can't continue to have massive deficits caused by out of control spending (to be far both parties are guilty, but Dems much more so)
@David
You and the rest of your ilk love to parrot this BS about the deficit, but lets be real. The last Republican in power that remotely cared about the national debt beyond it being a political bludgeon was HW Bush. He was the last Republican to understand that tax increases were necessary to get a surplus and pay it down. Since then, W Bush and Trump both blew up the deficit, slashing taxes...
@David
You and the rest of your ilk love to parrot this BS about the deficit, but lets be real. The last Republican in power that remotely cared about the national debt beyond it being a political bludgeon was HW Bush. He was the last Republican to understand that tax increases were necessary to get a surplus and pay it down. Since then, W Bush and Trump both blew up the deficit, slashing taxes for the rich when there was no spending to cut. Even if you remove COVID spending from the equation, Trump added more to the national debt in his first term than Biden did, and almost as much as Obama did in just 4 years to Obama's 8.
Anyone who believes that Republicans are better on the economy and fiscal responsibility either hasn't looked at the data or is so deep in the cult they wouldn't believe it anyways. Just look at 2025. Roaring economy from Biden's COVID recovery and manufacturing policies, and Trump just nose-dives it into a recession with his stupid tariff fixation. But you gullible rubes heard "trade deficit" and thought he was genius. Welcome to reality.
Dusty
Tariffs are a completely different issue, and please stop the condescending attitude that anyone that votes for Trump wouldn't understand the difference.
Both sides have blown up the deficit, but I don't count letting people keep more of the money they earn is deficit busting. Giving people money that they didn't earn is deficit busting. And don't get me started about providing benefits for illegal immigrants.
Republicans worry about people who work and dems...
Dusty
Tariffs are a completely different issue, and please stop the condescending attitude that anyone that votes for Trump wouldn't understand the difference.
Both sides have blown up the deficit, but I don't count letting people keep more of the money they earn is deficit busting. Giving people money that they didn't earn is deficit busting. And don't get me started about providing benefits for illegal immigrants.
Republicans worry about people who work and dems worry about illegal immigrants and people who don't.
And by the way, I'm not rich. I worked part time in college and have worked ever since.
@David
I'll be condescending all I want to Trump voters until you idiots stop drinking the koolaid and admit you got swindled by a conman. Your side cheered on actual murder and violence against Dem electeds and Dem voters. So suck it up buttercup, you can handle a mean internet post.
So Trump promised you that you can keep more of the money you earn. Great! Except what does that mean in reality? The...
@David
I'll be condescending all I want to Trump voters until you idiots stop drinking the koolaid and admit you got swindled by a conman. Your side cheered on actual murder and violence against Dem electeds and Dem voters. So suck it up buttercup, you can handle a mean internet post.
So Trump promised you that you can keep more of the money you earn. Great! Except what does that mean in reality? The things that that tax money funded: roads, schools, social safety nets, health insurance, all get CUT. Then you're paying MORE to fix your car because you hit a pothole, to send your kid to private school because public schools have been gutted, or to get medical coverage or care. You're now spending MORE than you "saved" through the tax cuts. And all the while the deficit climbs because taxes don't cover expenditures and there's no big cuts that can actually be made.
DOGE should have proved that to you. They cut $60~ billion, much of which was conbtracts not actually spent yet, but the deficit this year alone is going to push over a trillion. DOGE's cuts saved 6% on the deficit, going by the most charitable verifiable numbers. SIX. PERCENT. And tariffs are relevant here, because aside from Trump's trade deficit fearmongering he was also promising you rubes that foreign countries paid it, not you, and that it would replace the income tax cuts he made. Surprise surprise, it was all snake oil and you were the mark.
The GOP doesn't care about you. They're letting your health insurance costs skyrocket. They're refusing to fund SNAP. They're trying to prevent your holiday travel. They're refusing to pay ACTUAL working people like ATC. And the whole time they're blowing up the deficit to do it. The HOUSE GOP has been on vacation since SEPTEMBER. They're not working for you, they're not worrying about you, they do Trump's bidding only.
Democrats swept competitive races seen as a Trump referendum. Virginia flipped from GOP to Democratic control. Sherrill's New Jersey win was so dominant she became the first politician in 50 years to win a third consecutive gubernatorial term for either party.
Exit polls: 55-56% of voters disapproved of Trump, with 40% voting to oppose him. Republicans expected to lose Virginia beforehand.
"Schumer Shutdown" ignores that Republicans control everything but trail 52-42 in blame polls. Democrats...
Democrats swept competitive races seen as a Trump referendum. Virginia flipped from GOP to Democratic control. Sherrill's New Jersey win was so dominant she became the first politician in 50 years to win a third consecutive gubernatorial term for either party.
Exit polls: 55-56% of voters disapproved of Trump, with 40% voting to oppose him. Republicans expected to lose Virginia beforehand.
"Schumer Shutdown" ignores that Republicans control everything but trail 52-42 in blame polls. Democrats are blocking a CR to extend healthcare subsidies 72% support. Fifty-seven percent of ACA recipients live in Republican districts; 80% of subsidies went to Trump states.
Control all three branches but can't pass a budget? Blaming the minority rings hollow. Tuesday proved it.
David - you seem more reasonable than the mental midget AndyS, so a more respectful response.
Look at the NJ shift vs. the 2024 election as a preview of how 2026 is gonna go for y'all. Hint: not well.
hey 1990, maybe that proof that democracy in the US is broken beyond repair if those kinds of people are winning elections?
Maybe China has the right idea on how things should be run.
AndyS, you prove yet again that you are a 'fake-triot,' pretending to care about Americans, yet then praising the Chinese communist party. Horrible ideas.
Actual Americans support the rule of law and compromise with our fellow countrymen. We do not want authoritarianism.
This shutdown is and was caused by the democrats who are holding the country hostage.
Wrong again, AndyS.
"If there is a shutdown. I think it would be a tremendously negative mark on the president of the United States." -- DJT.
We are talking about a POTUS who wants said before the 2022 midterms “Well, I think if they win, I should get all the credit, and if they lose, I should not be blamed at all,”
It does seem more like a 'threat,' because this is all a preventable, manufactured crisis.
So, the administration's Department of Transportation Secretary issues is threat. But to whom? To the traveling public? To private jets? To less-served rural areas? To workers? All the above? Yet none of those people have the power to fix this; Republicans in the Senate do.
Republicans can negotiate in good-faith with Democrats to pass a bi-partisan budget; instead, Republicans...
It does seem more like a 'threat,' because this is all a preventable, manufactured crisis.
So, the administration's Department of Transportation Secretary issues is threat. But to whom? To the traveling public? To private jets? To less-served rural areas? To workers? All the above? Yet none of those people have the power to fix this; Republicans in the Senate do.
Republicans can negotiate in good-faith with Democrats to pass a bi-partisan budget; instead, Republicans have refused to negotiate. So, maybe they'll enjoy their breakfast with the President this morning, then either 'flip the board' (change the Senate rules to simple majority), or finally negotiate.
"Remember, remember, the fifth of November..."
Oh, I just like that movie... cool costumes, ya know... eggy in a basket, yum!
“Remember, remember the 5th of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot
For there is a reason for gunpowder and treason:
Donald J. Trump is a twat."
How is being AIPAC’s little whore working out for you, America?
MAGA!!!!
Eh-hem. Sir, the 'Israel posts' are elsewhere. This is a shutdown-FAA-ATC-TSA megathread.
You're a weird person, BZ. How's that working out for you?
And is it true that the membrums virile of Palestinian snackbars stink? Since your nose is located so close to them, you would probably have better information on that.
How wonderful for you that your prediction from a few days ago might turn out to be right…
No doubt a sign of Ben's membership in the DEEP STATE!
Seriously tho, not sure what you're trying to imply there Gaby.
Typically blaming Democrats.
Meanwhile Emperor Trump is spending $300 million on a tacky ballroom and wants to spend hundreds of millions more on a triumphal arch !
Here is Europe, we have rights. If you don't get paid you don't work. Simple
France 1789. A la volante du peuple , et a la sante du progres.
Yes, 'to the will of the people and to the health of progress,' indeed. I hear the people sing.
We applaud your focus on humanity, worker protections, and consumer rights. Many of us in the USA know that these are the 'better way' to do things, yet, we are fighting against entrenched oligarchic and corporate power. It's always been a class war, not a culture war, here.
And, on the topic of ballrooms, it's...
Yes, 'to the will of the people and to the health of progress,' indeed. I hear the people sing.
We applaud your focus on humanity, worker protections, and consumer rights. Many of us in the USA know that these are the 'better way' to do things, yet, we are fighting against entrenched oligarchic and corporate power. It's always been a class war, not a culture war, here.
And, on the topic of ballrooms, it's far worse than those petty vanity projects, believe it or not. (And, don't worry, the Trumpers will soon be on here to say he's getting secret donors to pay, not taxpayers, as if that makes it ok.)
Daedalus would be proud.
This shutdown is and was caused by the democrats who refuse to pass a bill funding the government.
AndyS - Republicans control all three branches and could pass their CR via nuclear option without Democrats. They won't. When you have total power but still can't fund the government, blaming the minority just confirms you can't govern. The polls back this up: 52% blame Republicans, 42% blame Democrats.
Democrats, when they're not paralyzed by process, actually advocate for their constituents. Why is it so easy for Republicans to sell out their own constituents to...
AndyS - Republicans control all three branches and could pass their CR via nuclear option without Democrats. They won't. When you have total power but still can't fund the government, blaming the minority just confirms you can't govern. The polls back this up: 52% blame Republicans, 42% blame Democrats.
Democrats, when they're not paralyzed by process, actually advocate for their constituents. Why is it so easy for Republicans to sell out their own constituents to benefit Orange POTUS' designated kissups?
The Republicans control all branches of government. Senate Republicans should negotiate in good faith with Senate Democrats on a bi-partisan budget including healthcare for Americans and to reopen the government as soon as possible.
The blame belongs to them.
If by "them" you mean "the GQP and Trump", then yes, you're correct!
A country that puts someone like Trump in power, not once, but twice, is one I frankly could not care less about and watching it spiral gives me a good dose of schadenfreude.
Lest such Trumpism affect your country, directly or indirectly. Unfortunately, the USA's influence likely does impact you, personally, whether you admit it or not, so you should care a little. Likewise, we (in the 'free' world) should have cared far more about Germans' choices in the early 1930s. Easier to mitigate sooner than later. Lets not forget our history.
Electing Trump was the right choice. If Harris were president, we’d be in WW3 now.
I'll bite - 9volt, justify your claim that "If Harris were president, we’d be in WW3 now" with any data or sound information justifying that hypothetical. Any data at all. Any facts.
Great... have your opinion but the price is you are no longer welcome to visit the US.
What pathetic whiny overly sensitive people. People who can’t handle someone expressing a critical opinion of them, so they have to get them banned! Talking to you TIMO.
What side voted 13 times against a clean continuing resolution? Democrats. What side voted 13 times during Ben admin for clean continuing resolution? Democrats. No serious person blames republicans for shutdown.
*Biden admin. Thank God we don't have a Ben admin!
Judging by Republicans' abysmal election results across the country last night, anyone with a functioning brain does...
Well said, Telly. As he admitted to us on VFTW, Mantis is American who gave up on us and moved to Asia, so don't take him too seriously. He's just in-it for the chaos.
Telly, just shows democracy in America is broken if democrats can shutdown the government and their idiot voters keep electing them.
The fact that this tired old invective was all you could come up with says far more than what your words tried.
Telly - that’s no indictment on Republicans. That’s just blue states following a “blue no matter who” mantra. What else is new?
Had the continuing resolution been enacted it would have ended on November 21 (only 2 weeks from now), and we would be facing another shutdown.
The House should have been spending this time negotiating an actual budget. Instead, Speaker Johnson sent the House on a paid vacation.
Donald Trump quote:
If there is a shutdown... I actually think the president would be blamed. If there is a shutdown, I think it would be a tremendously negative mark on the president of the United States."
Well said, JDL. Here's another: "a shutdown means the president is weak" -- DJT, 2013.
As he also said: "problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top".
Yeah, it's all hypocrisy, bad-faith, and a power-grab by the rich. Always been a class-war.
Democrats voted against a "clean" CR because it lacked healthcare protections for millions. That's standard minority party leverage, identical to what Republicans did in 2013 (demanding ACA delays) and 2018-2019 (demanding wall funding). Difference? Democrats are demanding healthcare subsidies that 72% of Americans support, primarily benefiting Republican districts (57% of recipients). Republicans control all three branches but trail 52-42 in blame polls. When Trump's own campaign manager says Republicans expected to lose Tuesday's elections and...
Democrats voted against a "clean" CR because it lacked healthcare protections for millions. That's standard minority party leverage, identical to what Republicans did in 2013 (demanding ACA delays) and 2018-2019 (demanding wall funding). Difference? Democrats are demanding healthcare subsidies that 72% of Americans support, primarily benefiting Republican districts (57% of recipients). Republicans control all three branches but trail 52-42 in blame polls. When Trump's own campaign manager says Republicans expected to lose Tuesday's elections and exit polls show voters opposing Trump by double digits, claiming "no serious person" blames Republicans is wishful thinking contradicted by both polls and ballot boxes.
It's the White House " talking points script" ( everything will fall apart unless trump gets his way ). This administration has had success in ruling by lies and fear. No need to be afraid of this useless bullying.
“I alone can fix it.”
- Some Short Fingered Florida Vulgarian
Ben nailed it. This is stage direction, not prediction. And it’s completely in line with this administration‘s modus operandi of strongly hinting at what people should do for them with the thinnest possible veneer of plausible deniability that would only convince their base.
Duffy's strongly hinting at when controllers should call out sick while pre-blaming Democrats. POTUS and SecDOT clearly think that if they can inflict pain on hungry poor people and the flying public...
Ben nailed it. This is stage direction, not prediction. And it’s completely in line with this administration‘s modus operandi of strongly hinting at what people should do for them with the thinnest possible veneer of plausible deniability that would only convince their base.
Duffy's strongly hinting at when controllers should call out sick while pre-blaming Democrats. POTUS and SecDOT clearly think that if they can inflict pain on hungry poor people and the flying public that’ll bring the Democrats to heel.
Democrats are fighting for a huge chunk of the American people to be able to afford healthcare. Meanwhile, this administration has made it very clear that they can fund the things they considered to be a priority, even during a government shut down (bailing out Argentina, importing Argentinian beef at the expense of American cattlemen, etc).
The FAA manages staffing shortages daily without threatening airspace closures. But that doesn't generate headlines. Weaponizing Thanksgiving travel does.
100%, All Due Respect.
Big wins last night in NYC, NJ, VA, PA, CA.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Look up the Rockbridge Group. Founded by Thiel and a guy named Buskirk. As much as MAGA seems to be a populist movement, it is about elites . . . and within the group they use the term "aristo-populism." They seek to install business elites in positions of power within the government. In Buskirk own words, they seek “a proper elite that takes care of the country and governs it well so that everyone prospers.”...
Look up the Rockbridge Group. Founded by Thiel and a guy named Buskirk. As much as MAGA seems to be a populist movement, it is about elites . . . and within the group they use the term "aristo-populism." They seek to install business elites in positions of power within the government. In Buskirk own words, they seek “a proper elite that takes care of the country and governs it well so that everyone prospers.” Then, there is the $500k pay-to-play club called "Executive Branch." Look it up.
Surprised you haven't posted on the UPS MD-11 crash in Kentucky.
He just did. That one is awful. Really sad.
You all must live in a different planet.
The vote at hand is to CONTINUE to fund the government. To pass the Senate, that needs 60 votes. Even though Republicans have a majority, that’s not 60. Simple math.
Democrats want to do something with healthcare which is NOT in current FY spending budget. So, increasing spending, not just CONTINUING to fund government. Following me here?
Polls mean literally nothing.
If Democrats (or Republicans for...
You all must live in a different planet.
The vote at hand is to CONTINUE to fund the government. To pass the Senate, that needs 60 votes. Even though Republicans have a majority, that’s not 60. Simple math.
Democrats want to do something with healthcare which is NOT in current FY spending budget. So, increasing spending, not just CONTINUING to fund government. Following me here?
Polls mean literally nothing.
If Democrats (or Republicans for that matter), want to legislate healthcare, then legislate. That’s literally their job. But, to not CONTINUE to fund the government in lieu of legislation is not doing their job.
Democrats have withheld the CONTINUING funding of the government hostage to promotes an agenda that they can’t legislate properly.
Democrats are asking to extend vital healthcare subsidies along with a CR because waiting until the end of the year will cause even more problems than GQP stonewalling has already. Republicans won't negotiate despite controlling everything. That's how legislative leverage works in the minority. And the Democrats have offered to negotiate – Republicans refused to come to the table, and then try to blame the Democrats
Republicans could pass this with Democratic input with the...
Democrats are asking to extend vital healthcare subsidies along with a CR because waiting until the end of the year will cause even more problems than GQP stonewalling has already. Republicans won't negotiate despite controlling everything. That's how legislative leverage works in the minority. And the Democrats have offered to negotiate – Republicans refused to come to the table, and then try to blame the Democrats
Republicans could pass this with Democratic input with the nuclear option.. Instead they're threatening airspace closures, froze $28 billion in blue state projects, and bailed out Argentina with $20 billion while claiming there's no money for SNAP.
They trail 52-42 in blame polls because Democrats are demanding healthcare protections 72% of Americans support, while Republicans respond by weaponizing Thanksgiving travel.
That's not equivalent tactics. That's popular policy versus manufactured crisis.
Well said, All Due Respect.
Not to mention, the courts just told the administration to release that emergency funding for SNAP, yet, Trump literally said he's gonna ignore that court-order, so, it's all really just authoritarianism...
Nicely put!
Those healthcare subsidies were enacted during Covid era. No need for them 5 years later. Proof again that government spending typically grows & rarely shrinks.
@Timo
I think its a good thing for people to be able to afford healthcare. Not everybody is so lucky to have their employer pay for or subsidize it. The subsidies should stay because the alternative is massive numbers of people going bankrupt at best or dying at worst because they can't afford medical care. You want to blow up the number of homeless and destitute in this country? Ending the subsidies is how you do that. But fuck those people, you got yours right?
That’s so thinly veiled it’s embarrassing. Just like the rest of this mess, I suppose.
There’s really no way for everyone to save face at this point, so hopefully the next few days will see actual action occurring in Washington and this disaster can come to a close.
Selfishly, I am glad I lucked out with a few weeks at home - no travel until the 17th. Traveling during the shutdown I feel like I’m...
That’s so thinly veiled it’s embarrassing. Just like the rest of this mess, I suppose.
There’s really no way for everyone to save face at this point, so hopefully the next few days will see actual action occurring in Washington and this disaster can come to a close.
Selfishly, I am glad I lucked out with a few weeks at home - no travel until the 17th. Traveling during the shutdown I feel like I’m part of the problem, “forcing” people to work without pay, but I have to do my job too. :|
Its Duffy, of course its thin. Trump also sets him up for failure and a scapegoat if airspace closure happens. Takes his NASA interim gig (rightly) and after gov resumes SecTrans.
Spot on, both of you
"Turn the volume up."
We know Trump and the Republicans are disingenuous, corrupt, and hypocritical.
But, the DNC, Chuck, Hakeem, Nancy, and the corporate shills really should wake up and actually get behind the Progressives who will save the party, the country, and the people.
(And, as our Comptroller Brad Lander said on June 24, 2025: "Andrew Cuomo is in the past. He is not the present or future of New York City... Good F-ing riddance.")
Duffy’s threat has been made in order to try to up the pressure on the country to surrender to the wishes of Trump and his Trumpublican minions so that the Trump regime can more easily carry on with its egregiously unlawful behavior against liberty, freedom and the rule of law for all US persons.
Correct! It’s Trump versus America again.
Well said, GUWonder.
Hope you're as 'pumped' as we are in NYC (and NJ, and VA, and PA, and CA) this morning.
"We will leave mediocrity in our past. No longer will we have to open a history book for proof that Democrats can dare to be great."
Time to get to work.
As a European I'm a bit confused. My understanding was, that shutdowns come from the debt-ceiling having to be raised. But didn't the US shift back to a tariff based system and is pondering to reduce taxes due to this? I would have expected this means the national debt would go down, at least until the taxes have been signioficantly reduced?
This is a major oversimplification, but the current shutdown was because not enough senators (need 60) could agree to the proposed budget over healthcare funding levels. That’s only one part of the proposed budget of course, but the whole thing has to be approved to be passed.
The shutdown is only tenuously connected to the debt. Rather, it is a result of Congress not passing, and therefore the president not signing, a budget measure, whether a continuing resolution to maintain the most recent budget or a new budget altogether. Angst over the debt contributes to, but does not control this.
I suspect that after last night's drubbing—Democrats won all major races in landslides—Republicans will see the writing on the wall and play ball. Americans clearly (and rightly) blame them for the shutdown.
Drubbing? Blue states elected democrats, not that shocking. Really the only shock was they still won with god awful candidates.
Mantis, that was not your 'hot take' before today...
Trumpism will not last. The people are starting to realize that it was all a con. He never cared about 'the price of eggs' or their healthcare or jobs; just a grift to ingratiate himself and keep himself outta prison.
Anyway, get some good rest; it's likely your bedtime over in Asia soon.
@Mantis
Georgia, a "red" state, had insane turnout for an off-year statewide race and booted the two Republican incumbents out of the Public Service Commission. The red shift that occurred in 2024 even in blue states like NJ is gone. People hate what Trump is doing to the country.
Well said, Dusty. Keep speaking the truth.
democrats caused this, their voters are part of the problem and the enemy of this country.
rats won in rat strongholds.
This is a democrat shutdown.
Watch the dems lose thier welfare.
I know you're just here to sh!tpost AndyS. Having said that, Republicans control all branches of government. They can end this anytime with the nuclear option. They choose not to because they're losing the political fight.
About those "rat strongholds": 57% of ACA subsidy recipients live in Republican districts. SNAP recipients are split fairly evenly between parties, with the highest-participation districts slightly favoring Republicans. When Republicans cut "welfare," they're cutting their own constituents.
That's probably...
I know you're just here to sh!tpost AndyS. Having said that, Republicans control all branches of government. They can end this anytime with the nuclear option. They choose not to because they're losing the political fight.
About those "rat strongholds": 57% of ACA subsidy recipients live in Republican districts. SNAP recipients are split fairly evenly between parties, with the highest-participation districts slightly favoring Republicans. When Republicans cut "welfare," they're cutting their own constituents.
That's probably why they trail by 10 points in shutdown blame and lost every major race Tuesday. Keep the insults coming though - voters are watching.
No, AndyS, American voters are not the problem or the enemy of our country.
I suspect that you are likely not even an American, and if you are, AndyS, that's an objectively horrible thing to say about your fellow countrymen. Anyone with a conscience can see that.
It wasn't a drubbing. It was just blue states following the standard script of "vote blue no matter who." Of course they were going to win.
VA even voted for a guy who wished death upon his opponent's children. Sure, we all have our differences, but wishing death upon children? That's just next level sickness.
@9Volt
Trump and his supporters say worse on the daily and get a free pass. If decency means so much to you, don't vote for a wholly indecent man.
And to be completely, 100% crystal clear: It wasn't just blue states. Pennsylvania was flipped by Trump in 2024, but this year the incumbent PA Supreme Court Dems kept their seats by a wide margin. Virginia's had a GOP governor, but a Dem won the...
@9Volt
Trump and his supporters say worse on the daily and get a free pass. If decency means so much to you, don't vote for a wholly indecent man.
And to be completely, 100% crystal clear: It wasn't just blue states. Pennsylvania was flipped by Trump in 2024, but this year the incumbent PA Supreme Court Dems kept their seats by a wide margin. Virginia's had a GOP governor, but a Dem won the election against Youngkin's Lt Governor. Georgia's statewide election for two Public Service Committee seats both ended in Democrat wins. The GOP supermajority in the Mississippi state legislature was broken. These aren't blue states. Democrats won by absolutely crazy margins in these races. Americans are not happy with Trump, and they're not happy with the GOP for enabling Trump.
To 9volt: Virginia flipped from Republican to Democratic control—that's not "vote blue no matter who" in a blue state. It was a purple state with a GOP governor that rejected Trump's candidate.
Exit polls showed 55-56% of voters in New Jersey and Virginia disapproved of Trump, with 40% saying their vote was specifically to oppose him. Trump's own campaign manager blamed the Virginia loss on running "a bad candidate."
Pennsylvania Supreme Court Dems won by...
To 9volt: Virginia flipped from Republican to Democratic control—that's not "vote blue no matter who" in a blue state. It was a purple state with a GOP governor that rejected Trump's candidate.
Exit polls showed 55-56% of voters in New Jersey and Virginia disapproved of Trump, with 40% saying their vote was specifically to oppose him. Trump's own campaign manager blamed the Virginia loss on running "a bad candidate."
Pennsylvania Supreme Court Dems won by wide margins in a state Trump flipped in 2024. Georgia elected Democrats statewide. Mississippi broke the GOP supermajority. These aren't blue strongholds following a script—they're swing states and red states rebuking Trump.
That's why Republicans are manufacturing aviation crises instead of negotiating: they're losing the political fight and need maximum disruption to shift blame. Tuesday's results proved it's not working.