Delta recently had a massive operational meltdown, whereby 7,000 flights were canceled, and even more flights were delayed. While that was a mess, I’d argue that the company’s recovery has been even worse, as Delta has done everything it can to avoid taking accountability.
The Atlanta-based airline has vowed to sue CrowdStrike and Microsoft to recover the losses from this incident, which are expected to total around $500 million.
Unfortunately I’m not sure Delta’s threats to sue two tech giants are working out all that well. A couple of days ago, I wrote about how CrowdStrike sent a scathing letter to Delta, and now Microsoft has joined in as well. My gosh, I would not want to be on the receiving end of this letter, because… ouch!
In this post:
Microsoft accuses Delta of false & misleading narrative
Legal counsel for Microsoft has just sent a letter to Delta’s counsel, defending itself vigorously against Delta’s accusations. Here’s the main part of the letter, which I think is worth sharing in full, as there are quite a few points here:
Let me say first that Microsoft empathizes with Delta and its customers regarding the impact of the CrowdStrike incident. But your letter and Delta’s public comments are incomplete, false, misleading, and damaging to Microsoft and its reputation.
The truth is very different from the false picture you and Delta have sought to paint:
(a) Even though Microsoft’s software had not caused the CrowdStrike incident, Microsoft immediately jumped in and offered to assist Delta at no charge following the July 19 outage;
(b) Each day that followed from July 19 through July 23, Microsoft employees repeated their offers to help Delta. Each time, Delta turned down Microsoft’s offers to help, even though Microsoft would not have charged Delta for this assistance.
(c) On the morning of July 22, a Microsoft employee, aware that Delta was having more difficulty recovering than any other airline, messaged a Delta employee to say, “just checking in and no pressure to reply, but if you can think of anything your Microsoft team can be helping with today, just say the word.” The Delta employee replied, saying “all good. Cool will let you know and thank you.” Despite this assessment that things were “all good,” public reports indicate that Delta canceled more than 1,100 flights on July 22 and more than 500 flights on July 23.
(d) More senior Microsoft executives also repeatedly reached out to help their counterparts at Delta, again with similar results. Among others, on Wednesday, July 24, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella emailed Delta CEO Ed Bastian, who has never replied.
(e) In fact, it is rapidly becoming apparent that Delta likely refused Microsoft’s help because the IT system it was most having trouble restoring—its crew-tracking and scheduling system—was being serviced by other technology providers, such as IBM, because it runs on those providers’ systems, and not Microsoft Windows or Azure.
Microsoft continues to investigate the circumstances surrounding the CrowdStrike incident to understand why other airlines were able to fully restore business operations so much faster than Delta, including American Airlines and United Airlines. Our preliminary review suggests that Delta, unlike its competitors, apparently has not modernized its IT infrastructure, either for the benefit of its customers or for its pilots and flight attendants.
Given all this, my client was surprised to see your letter. This is particularly so given that CrowdStrike has acknowledged responsibility for the content update that caused the July 19 incident.
As you know, Windows is an open platform that supports a vibrant ecosystem of programs, including built-in and first-party solutions and additional options by third-party developers, such as CrowdStrike. To ensure that Microsoft’s customers have options for the best possible protection from malicious attacks, Windows enables trusted third-party developers to develop kernel drivers, in addition to user mode drivers. Security programs are able to use kernel mode drivers to protect the Windows system in the startup process. Third-party programs that utilize kernel drivers must balance security against resilience, and Microsoft provides feedback and best practices to third-party security program developers through Microsoft’s Virus Initiative.
Given Delta’s false and damaging public statements, Microsoft will vigorously defend itself in any litigation if Delta chooses to pursue that path. Further, Microsoft demands that Delta preserve (a) the documents CrowdStrike demanded that you preserve; as well as (b) documents discussing or referring to (i) the CrowdStrike incident and Delta’s outage, including Delta’s efforts and experience in returning to working order its systems, including its crew-tracking and scheduling system and systems that use other third-party technology providers; (ii) the extent to which nonMicrosoft systems or software, including systems provided and/or designed by IBM, Oracle, Amazon Web Services, Kyndryl or others, and systems using other operating systems, such as Linux, contributed to the interruption of Delta’s business operations between July 19 and July 24; (iii) the decision to deploy CrowdStrike across the various different systems comprising Delta’s computer infrastructure; and (iv) Delta’s communications with third-party media and/or public affairs consultants concerning the CrowdStrike incident and Delta’s outage, and concerning Delta’s communications strategy and/or public response. Such documents include both communications internally and externally, with third parties.
Please let me know if you would like to schedule a time to talk.
This situation is not making Delta look good…
In a recent memo to employees about the meltdown, Delta CEO Ed Bastian wrote that “when you get knocked down, what’s most important is how you get back up.” All I can say is that the way Delta is “getting back up” really isn’t impressing me.
First, there was the way the airline tried to treat stranded customers, as Delta initially said it wouldn’t reimburse tickets on other airlines when Delta was completely unable to operate. The airline then backtracked, after the Department of Transportation announced it was investigating the airline.
Now we’ve seen Delta do so little to take accountability for its part in these issues, continuing to blame everything on CrowdStrike, without in any material way acknowledging the company’s lack of investment in its crew scheduling software.
While I can appreciate Delta wanting to hold CrowdStrike responsible to some degree, the case against Microsoft is even weaker, and I think this letter from Microsoft is magnificently well written. I mean, this is as close as one company can get to “owning” another. I can’t even point to one part that I like the most, because the whole thing is just so well done.
I can’t help but wonder if this incident could in some way represent a turning point for Delta. The airline has so long based its success on its premium imagine and it being a brand that people want to do business with. But I don’t think anyone can look at this situation objectively and say “yeah, Delta absolutely handled this as well as it could have.”
Could we see some management changes at the airline, following this incident? For that matter, I’m curious if this whole incident could have an impact on employee morale, and on relations between management and employees. I can’t imagine that profit sharing at Delta will be looking all that good for 2024, and we know that Delta flight attendants have several times been on the verge of unionizing…
I really think Delta is overplaying its hand here and is digging itself a deeper hole with both customers and business partners, and I’m curious to see how this ultimately unfolds…
Bottom line
Delta has threatened to sue Microsoft (in addition to CrowdStrike), following the carrier’s meltdown. Microsoft had quite the response to Delta’s accusations, pointing out how the company repeatedly reached out to Delta to try and help, and was rejected. As Microsoft (correctly, in my opinion) points out, the severity of the meltdown was almost certainly due to Delta’s lackluster crew scheduling software.
What do you make of Microsoft’s letter to Delta? Do you feel like Delta is looking good in this whole situation?
So according to @Tim Dumb, it's okay for Delta to have multiple meltdowns but mnot Microsoft?
it is worth noting that Microsoft has had multiple failures of its cloud computing service over the past few weeks.
Despite the allegations that Delta failed with its IT, how is the world's largest provider of business software able to tell one of its clients that they haven't invested in IT when Microsoft's own systems continue to fail at a spectacularly high rate?
All Microsoft is accomplishing is proving why Delta and other companies made...
it is worth noting that Microsoft has had multiple failures of its cloud computing service over the past few weeks.
Despite the allegations that Delta failed with its IT, how is the world's largest provider of business software able to tell one of its clients that they haven't invested in IT when Microsoft's own systems continue to fail at a spectacularly high rate?
All Microsoft is accomplishing is proving why Delta and other companies made the right choice in going with Amazon's AWS for cloud computing
This is going to be fun Tim.
And I quote his fluff.
it is worth noting that Delta has had multiple cancellations of its flights over the past few weeks.
Despite the allegations that MSFT failed with its IT, how is the world's premium airline (sic) able to tell one of its passengers that their not at fault when Delta's own flights continue to cancel at a spectacularly high rate?
All Delta is accomplishing...
This is going to be fun Tim.
And I quote his fluff.
it is worth noting that Delta has had multiple cancellations of its flights over the past few weeks.
Despite the allegations that MSFT failed with its IT, how is the world's premium airline (sic) able to tell one of its passengers that their not at fault when Delta's own flights continue to cancel at a spectacularly high rate?
All Delta is accomplishing is proving why MSFT and other companies made the right choice in flying with other airlines.
Pretty good deflection, Timbo.
A balanced assessment of the situation is not deflection regardless of what you think.
Delta's systems were working fine 1 minute before CrowdStrike shipped fatally flawed code which Microsoft allowed because it gave CRWD access to the deepest part of the Microsoft Operating System. That is what the likely lawsuit is about.
To have Microsoft tell Delta it hasn't invested in IT when MSFT has had repeated failures of its cloud computing system is the...
A balanced assessment of the situation is not deflection regardless of what you think.
Delta's systems were working fine 1 minute before CrowdStrike shipped fatally flawed code which Microsoft allowed because it gave CRWD access to the deepest part of the Microsoft Operating System. That is what the likely lawsuit is about.
To have Microsoft tell Delta it hasn't invested in IT when MSFT has had repeated failures of its cloud computing system is the height of hypocrisy - and as much as some want to believe otherwise, it will become just as powerful evidence for DL's case as anything MSFT can say about DL's IT systems - which were more advanced than its competitors - but just ran Microsoft OS on AWS.
the courts will decide unless an out of court settlement is reached which is far more likely than you and others want to admit
Amazon Web Services has also had some notable failures as well. So, are you implying that any cloud provider that has had outages shouldn't be utilized or trusted? (I hope not.)
IT service providers such as Microsoft/Azure and AWS have Service Level Agreements with their customers, so it will depend on Microsoft's agreement with Delta Airlines. I'm inclined to think Delta's refusal to ask for or accept technical assistance from Microsoft will weaken their case...
Amazon Web Services has also had some notable failures as well. So, are you implying that any cloud provider that has had outages shouldn't be utilized or trusted? (I hope not.)
IT service providers such as Microsoft/Azure and AWS have Service Level Agreements with their customers, so it will depend on Microsoft's agreement with Delta Airlines. I'm inclined to think Delta's refusal to ask for or accept technical assistance from Microsoft will weaken their case against Microsoft. When your house is burning and you refuse to call the fire department for help, how then do you try to sue them after your house has burned down to the ground?
Corporate hubris. CEO Bastian swaggering around on their videos spouting corporate mumbo jumbo tells you all you need to know. -Of course- they were slacking on their IT backend. Certain CEOs will focus on squeezing more profits short- and mid-term while chanting buzzwords to mystify investors and board members, then sail out on a golden parachute when the time comes.
In my opinion, Delta's time has come and Bastian will eventually have to pull his...
Corporate hubris. CEO Bastian swaggering around on their videos spouting corporate mumbo jumbo tells you all you need to know. -Of course- they were slacking on their IT backend. Certain CEOs will focus on squeezing more profits short- and mid-term while chanting buzzwords to mystify investors and board members, then sail out on a golden parachute when the time comes.
In my opinion, Delta's time has come and Bastian will eventually have to pull his golden ripcord. Delta has stumbled repeatedly over the last few years; it's pretty plain to see they've been lowering the value they place on their customers and employees. Time for him to sail off and write some letter about "letting Delta find a new direction in a new age of travel" or some other BS like that
Way too much hubris at this company, and over the last couple years they’ve really shown that the don’t have a right to it anymore. Let’s hope this whole incident brings a bit of humbleness to delta’s management and their fanboys.
My son was crying for hours, but now the crying has stopped. Is he still alive?
Meanwhile, Microsoft Azure has had an outage per week for the last three weeks. They can write a nice letter. Now if they could only build a cloud platform that doesn't have an outage a week, or an operating system that is more resilient than a single file being able to render it useless, I'd be impressed.
thank you,
It is also noteworthy that Delta's cloud computing is on AWS, not Microsoft.
Explains alot why Microsoft says that Delta has not invested in IT when it is not hard to demonstrate that they have.
Delta led the US airline industry in shifting to cloud computing after its IT meltdown that was due to electric power issues.
They did not count on a "trusted" software provider which Microsoft gave deepest access...
thank you,
It is also noteworthy that Delta's cloud computing is on AWS, not Microsoft.
Explains alot why Microsoft says that Delta has not invested in IT when it is not hard to demonstrate that they have.
Delta led the US airline industry in shifting to cloud computing after its IT meltdown that was due to electric power issues.
They did not count on a "trusted" software provider which Microsoft gave deepest access to its operating system to be able to not only pass fatally flawed code but also to take down the Microsoft Operating System.
And as much as this site and others want to focus incessantly on Delta, there are many computers that have still not been completely restored including in the health care industry.
TL;DR
Despite Delta using AWS, they still have a meltdown.
Tim, did you realize how your own statement just trashed your beloved Delta.
My thoughts and prayers are with @Dim Sum.
Microsoft has a dedicated check in desk with Delta and a long-standing contract for corporate travel. This is a big part of why Delta even has a viable operation in Seattle. Knowing Microsoft, they're already having conversations with Alaska, American and United and the contract with Delta is a dead man walking.
The contract with Delta will be renewed. I know the corporate world better than anyone on this blog.
there is a whole lot of hot air on this blog from both the site operator and most of the commenters.
The reason why Delta has done so well setting up hubs in both BOS and SEA is because DL's competitors are primarily domestic narrowbody airlines that have no longhaul international service to Asia and very little for JBLU to Europe. And neither AS or B6 can negotiate fares with joint venture partners which means...
there is a whole lot of hot air on this blog from both the site operator and most of the commenters.
The reason why Delta has done so well setting up hubs in both BOS and SEA is because DL's competitors are primarily domestic narrowbody airlines that have no longhaul international service to Asia and very little for JBLU to Europe. And neither AS or B6 can negotiate fares with joint venture partners which means they are locked out of most of the world.
And DL is still far larger domestically.
While it took no time to decide to go after CrowdStrike, DL certainly thought long and hard about deciding to pick a fight with Microsoft and both will continue their relationships both ways - for IT and air travel.
TL;DR
Delta has more long haul international at BOS and SEA therefore they made the right decision to pick a fight with CrowdStrike.
Tim stop smoking cookie dough.
Look at your fluff.
OP talks about MSFT dedicated check in.
Why won’t you address the allegation that Delta refused to accept help from either vendor for days?
Your absolute refusal to accept Delta did ANYTHING wrong has eroded your credibility in my mind. Screw it.
It’s like trying to convince a MAGA fanatic that Trump isn’t 100% pure
@ Tim Dunn why do you keep saying Delta’s competitors have no long haul service to Asia? UA has the most seats from US to Asia and DL ranks fifth. Do you mean that they are not premium enough like Delta, but probably more people would rather fly with JAL and ANA and they rank number 2 and 3, respectively.
https://simpleflying.com/airlines-with-most-us-asia-flights/
DL is third after UA and KE.... did you even read the article you yourself posted? ;)
My mistake @concorde. It should be that UA also has the most flights between U.S. and Asia and DL ranks fifth in terms of the number of flights between U.S. and Asia. But DL does rank third in number of seats. JAL does rank second for most number of flights between U.S and Asia and ANA ranks third for most number of flights between U.S. and Asia.
However, my point was I don’t understand why...
My mistake @concorde. It should be that UA also has the most flights between U.S. and Asia and DL ranks fifth in terms of the number of flights between U.S. and Asia. But DL does rank third in number of seats. JAL does rank second for most number of flights between U.S and Asia and ANA ranks third for most number of flights between U.S. and Asia.
However, my point was I don’t understand why Tim Dunn wrote that ‘The reason why Delta has done so well setting up hubs in both BOS and SEA is because DL's competitors are primarily domestic narrowbody airlines that have no longhaul international service to Asia’.
I think that overall though DL’s competitors offer a lot of flights between U.S. and Asia and more than DL.
@ Tim Dunn -
"there is a whole lot of hot air on this blog from both the site operator and most of the commenters."
I would agree.
The question is..... Why should we even consider the value of a "person's intellect" who cannot even begin a sentence with a capital letter?
Your level of grammatical incompetence out weighs any money spent by your parents in donations to educational institutions.
As an aside, we sure are blessed to have you here, what with all your knowledge of the corporate world, among other things.
Thank you, beijing kaoya. I'm full of wit and humor too, and such a generous person that I dish it out here for free.
Tim, I think you forgot to change accounts before replying to "Peking Duck."
You are so racist and full of arrogance
@ Paul you are so racist and full of arrogance
I'll give you this... you are one funny dude. Now, get back to your cubicle you silly goose.
The first thing people should now realize is that deltas ceo is a standard ceo with zero technology understanding, never bothered to learn and his cto didn't bother to keep him informed. Delta statements ferls vastly inconsistent with how things are unfolding. He does not understand why there are internal IT issues apart from crowdstrikes garbage driver issue. He doesn't understand how that driver issue is significantly different than his own company's scheduling issue. And...
The first thing people should now realize is that deltas ceo is a standard ceo with zero technology understanding, never bothered to learn and his cto didn't bother to keep him informed. Delta statements ferls vastly inconsistent with how things are unfolding. He does not understand why there are internal IT issues apart from crowdstrikes garbage driver issue. He doesn't understand how that driver issue is significantly different than his own company's scheduling issue. And while one caused the other to fail, the other should in this day and age be far far more resilient. I can't wait to see the details of deltas infrastructure. I can almost guarantee it will reflect badly on delta when we see how they invested in their IT infrastructure.
If it gets that far, Discovery is gonna be wild.
It will be very interesting to see which of the parties is the first to request that the discovery files be sealed because they contain business confidential / sensitive competitive information.
We all know in US, who wins lawsuits isn’t base on right or wrong, but who has deeper pockets. I’m pretty sure msft and CrowdStrike has more money than Delta. With that said, given both CEOs have reached out to Delta to offer help and met with silence, it seems odd that Delta is trying to sue both companies now. I predict either CIO of Delta goes or both CEO and CIO of Delta steps down.
What else would MS and Crowdstrike do after completely melting down they are just trying to posture no fun starting down probably 10000 lawsuits Deltas claim is a small fraction of the enormous problem MS and CS have ….. you actually thing they are going to say “ sorry delta our bad”?
the only reason I keep reading is because of gems like this.
Some people here are so fixated on trying to find fault with Delta that they cannot see that this is about far more than the airline industry and Delta.
and Microsoft's letter DID throw CrowdStrike under the bus... they just didn't say that CRWD is hiding behind their mousetype that is supposed to free from their financial responsibility despite their gross negligence in...
the only reason I keep reading is because of gems like this.
Some people here are so fixated on trying to find fault with Delta that they cannot see that this is about far more than the airline industry and Delta.
and Microsoft's letter DID throw CrowdStrike under the bus... they just didn't say that CRWD is hiding behind their mousetype that is supposed to free from their financial responsibility despite their gross negligence in releasing fatally flawed code to the world.
Tim - I normally really look forward to your insights and defend the value you bring to the forum. But you would definitely sound more balanced if you occasionally gave in to the obvious. Regardless of the culpability of CrowdStrike and Microsoft - the fact that Delta management refused their vendors’ offers of support - including Bastian’s shocking lack of response to Satya Nadella - cannot be justified under any circumstances.
You would do...
Tim - I normally really look forward to your insights and defend the value you bring to the forum. But you would definitely sound more balanced if you occasionally gave in to the obvious. Regardless of the culpability of CrowdStrike and Microsoft - the fact that Delta management refused their vendors’ offers of support - including Bastian’s shocking lack of response to Satya Nadella - cannot be justified under any circumstances.
You would do well to acknowledge that that was a massive mistake by Delta and one that might unfortunately indicate a certain level of arrogance and hubris within the leadership - one that could have deep ramifications for the organization
I have been a loyal Delta flyer for years and Diamond for over a decade. This year, mostly because I have locked up Diamond for the next four years, I decided to take a shot at one world status. I do have to say that my experience with the combination of British Airways and American Airlines has really opened my eyes, and I am mightily relieved not to have been impacted by Delta this year as I have not flown them at all.
I do look forward to the day that Delta straightens this mess out, but I do think that senior leadership has a lot to answer for. Unfortunately, the Delta bubble has just popped for me.
It really comes down to that "Gross Negligence" doesn't it. Did they show a reckless disregard? That seems like a tough one to prove when Crowdstrike provided a solution an hour or two later, and then both Microsoft and Crowdstrike did everything in their power to to help role the fix in - but some at Delta did not even bother replying, and others at Delta said that, "No thanks. We got it covered."
the damage was done in the first minute.
It doesn't matter how quickly CRWD fixed the code when the computers were all shut down and in BSOD mode.
Neither CRWD or MSFT provided an immediate fix to that situation either to Delta or anyone else.
Again, for those that want so desperately to prove now bad Delta did, why did it take United 2 days to get its operation back on track...
the damage was done in the first minute.
It doesn't matter how quickly CRWD fixed the code when the computers were all shut down and in BSOD mode.
Neither CRWD or MSFT provided an immediate fix to that situation either to Delta or anyone else.
Again, for those that want so desperately to prove now bad Delta did, why did it take United 2 days to get its operation back on track if the problem could be fixed in 5 minutes?
is a 2 day operational meltdown acceptable while 4 days is not?
Clearly my point was utterly lost on you
@ErikOJ
He has always been like this.
Either you know enough to see through his fluff or you mistakenly believe he brings value to the discussion.
He only bring fluffy cookie dough.
Now to Tim's defense, he does have some insights but sadly most are made up facts from opinion and all are irrelevant.
I liked your original email, it was polite and balanced. I struggle to understand why some people have their complete identity linked to a single corporation. Delta generally serves its customers and employees well, but it failed this time. I hope its hubris doesn't prevent it from learning from the experience.
@Tim Dunn with AA they got back to business very quickly. Wouldn’t that be even more acceptable? Delta took longer because of its arrogance. A premium airline needs premium fixing , right?????
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/19/business/delta-american-airlines-flights-outage-intl-hnk/index.html
So, Tim, in your view every company in the world who used Crowdstrike security software should successfully sue them for the mistake? I mean since, every company was affected and not just, Delta or the airline industry, as you say, right? Good luck with that...
Looking ahead,
I can't imagine what kind of software terms in contracts vendors will require of Delta in the future...
Btw have you ever negotiated a large scale software contract, Tim?
Be real; the only reason you keep reading is because it feeds your weapons-grade addiction of arguing with strangers online.
For one thing, they could have very easily said nothing. It's very unusual for major companies to have this sort of public letter writing campaign when litigation is on the horizon.
Delta please stay strong. I have too many pesos with you for you to go down.
As far as corporate response goes, the Microsoft statement is rather mild. Imagine how much rear-reaming and ball-busting Delta would have received if Steve Ballmer was still the CEO of the software company!
Ballmer is no stranger to f**k ups!!
Remember Microsoft 8 and the Nokia phone running on the Microsoft operating system.
That man had a big mouth, but he did $billions$ worth of damage to his own company. Surprised they didn’t put his head on a stick at the entrance to the Microsoft HQ.
You dick!! I’d almost forgotten how shite Windows 8 was!!
Ed Bastian is the New Steve Ballmer?
"... its premium imagine..."
Image, I presume
Ben is correct. He is saying that DL imagines it is a premium airline, haha!!! Its image as a premium airline is imaginary. Hehe.
Didn't the Delta CEO jet off to Paris to watch the Olympics during all of this? Then the CEO publicly criticizes CrowdStrike and Microsoft. This is gold. The Delta CEO needs to go. As a long time Delta flyer, the company has deteriorated in recent time. Service failures, rotten food, broken planes, software issue. The list goes on. I'm a little peaved also that I was stuck in this mess and had to pay $1400...
Didn't the Delta CEO jet off to Paris to watch the Olympics during all of this? Then the CEO publicly criticizes CrowdStrike and Microsoft. This is gold. The Delta CEO needs to go. As a long time Delta flyer, the company has deteriorated in recent time. Service failures, rotten food, broken planes, software issue. The list goes on. I'm a little peaved also that I was stuck in this mess and had to pay $1400 to get home on a different airline in order to not miss my plans. I'm getting S-tired of Delta.
Delta is worried that Crowdstrike and Microsoft might accidentally witness how Delta treats its “family”. Delta abuse their employees work rules way too much. It’s all gray area. I feel bad for their non unionized flight attendant group that got displaced for days into their days off. Sure they get extra pay. But imagine not being able to come home for days or calling out but scared of getting fired.
first, with lawsuits on the horizon, EVERYONE tries to argue their point in the press. Just because any party says anything does not mean it is relevant. The courts will decide and social media has no say in lawsuits.
The only relevant part of the likely DL lawsuit against CRWD and MSFT is this paragraph:
“As you know, Windows is an open platform that supports a vibrant ecosystem of programs, including built-in and first-party...
first, with lawsuits on the horizon, EVERYONE tries to argue their point in the press. Just because any party says anything does not mean it is relevant. The courts will decide and social media has no say in lawsuits.
The only relevant part of the likely DL lawsuit against CRWD and MSFT is this paragraph:
“As you know, Windows is an open platform that supports a vibrant ecosystem of programs, including built-in and first-party solutions and additional options by third-party developers, such as CrowdStrike. To ensure that Microsoft’s customers have options for the best possible protection from malicious attacks, Windows enables trusted third-party developers to develop kernel drivers, in addition to user mode drivers. Security programs are able to use kernel mode drivers to protect the Windows system in the startup process. Third-party programs that utilize kernel drivers must balance security against resilience, and Microsoft provides feedback and best practices to third-party security program developers through Microsoft’s Virus Initiative.”
Delta’s lawsuit is not about MSFT or CRWD’s offers to help or the state of DL’s IT systems but the fact that CRWD screwed up which even MSFT acknowledges and the fact that MSFT DID NOT DO its job of protecting its operating system.
“CrowdStrike has acknowledged responsibility for the content update that caused the July 19 incident.”
And, no, CRWD has NOT taken responsibility for its failures. It is very likely that DL is backing CRWD into a corner by putting pressure on MSFT which has its vulnerabilities but ultimately trusted CRWD which should not have happened.
It doesn’t matter one iota what other systems had to be brought back online and how long it took if the failure of it all – which worked just fine minutes before CRWD released its flawed code.
Different airlines use different IT systems and MSFT’s letter contains all of the providers DL uses – but if the servers all run on MSFT and had CRWD, then that is the vulnerability. .
It is easy to establish if DL spent money on IT or not. MSFT loses its credibility when it says that DL has not invested in IT
And let’s not forget that UA still had very disrupted operations for 2 days, only 2 days less than DL. AA was reestablished far faster than UA.
Is DL picking a fight that might get them nowhere? Very possible but it is far more likely that CRWD and MSFT will settle for a portion of DL’s claims – part of which is covered by insurance – with part of DL’s own insurance covers other parts.
And let’s still not forget that this is all going to cost Delta far less than AA and UA will spend to settle with their FAs.
And DL has STILL not cancelled more flights than AA and UA year to date even though DL operates a larger mainline operation than any other airline except WN.
How can you say so much and say so little substance?
The fact that UA/AA were able to recover much more quickly, despite suffering from the same issue, shows that the damages Delta suffered were unique to them rather than Crowdstrike and Microsoft. Delta objectively did a terrible job of recovering and needs to take accountability instead of deflecting.
you don't get it. To absolutely no one's surprise.
Feel free to tell us what systems each of the 3 airlines used and how each were affected by this.
You can't because they all use massive complex IT systems and how they are put together is what matters.
And UA STILL took two days to get its systems back online. If you consider two days to get their network back online acceptable, then you and...
you don't get it. To absolutely no one's surprise.
Feel free to tell us what systems each of the 3 airlines used and how each were affected by this.
You can't because they all use massive complex IT systems and how they are put together is what matters.
And UA STILL took two days to get its systems back online. If you consider two days to get their network back online acceptable, then you and UA have very low standards.
DL simply took two MORE days than UA. DL just runs a much larger mainline system than AA and UA and Endeavor's crew management system uses DL's system.
and the RELEVANT part is that Microsoft pointed the finger at CrowdStrike which is likely all that DL needed to happen.'
Microsoft is liable because it allowed a low quality software provider as a trusted 3rd party vendors.
Tim - You're clearly not a lawyer. Please stop pretending like you know what you're talking about here.
UA/AA definitely recovered much more quickly than DL did.
What the fluff Tim?
You open with.
"The courts will decide and social media has no say in lawsuits."
Then spend half dozen paragraphs to do exactly the opposite with "no say in lawsuits" yourself.
If arguing fluff with other people just isn't enough for you anymore.
Have a cookie dough and chill.
Thats not how these contract typically work. There will be some sort of cap on liability. Maybe they will be able to get it increased in court but that is going to be sledding up hill. We won't know what is in Delta's contract unless this actually does go to court (which I do not expect). I also don't expect Microsoft to be interested in financially compensating a customer for another piece of software as that would open up a precedent that no one can afford.
Notice you skipped the part where the crew scheduling software may not have even been hosted on a Windows OS.
Tim, as an attorney, if one of my clients sent the letter Delta did, let alone made it public, their CEO would be in my office the next morning because I wouldn't want his employee's to hear how many different ways I called him stupid in the prolonged yelling session I was going to have. You have your in-house or external counsel send a document preservation letter, maybe ask if their counsel would like to...
Tim, as an attorney, if one of my clients sent the letter Delta did, let alone made it public, their CEO would be in my office the next morning because I wouldn't want his employee's to hear how many different ways I called him stupid in the prolonged yelling session I was going to have. You have your in-house or external counsel send a document preservation letter, maybe ask if their counsel would like to meet to discuss settlement or mediation. No litigator worth a damn ever sends a public notice that they're about to file because it makes settlement 100% harder. Talk about things you know, which as far as I can tell is how to read a 10K.
I'm the real life version of Michael Jackson eating popcorn right now! This is fun watching multiple unlikable corporations get into a cat fight.
Sadly Delta's CIO Rahil Samant is not up to the task. He wasn't impressive at AIG so the receipting of him to DL made zero sense. I was involved in fixing some of his farkery at BofA and was shocked that he wasn't axed earlier there.
Perhaps the time is ripe to replace him with someone who actually knows technology and doesn't play political games and push the OPT/H1B agenda to the detriment of his employer.
Love it…
AS Corporate Sales Manager with the MSFT account must be really happy
Why would Delta buy Microsoft in their next round of IT upgrades? They’ve already been burned. Plenty of other options out there.
Really? Name one.
Unless they're ready to go completely custom there really aren't many options out there.
@UncleRonnie...maybe DL should invest in the same company software that AA and UA has, given their ability to recover relatively quickly? And how was Microsoft burned? It was a CRWD glitch that affected the Microsoft software?
Reading the two letters from CRWD and MSFT, it seems the individual and group of individuals that got burned are 1) Ed Bastion, and 2) DL customers.
It also seems rather clear that this current DL PR fiasco...
@UncleRonnie...maybe DL should invest in the same company software that AA and UA has, given their ability to recover relatively quickly? And how was Microsoft burned? It was a CRWD glitch that affected the Microsoft software?
Reading the two letters from CRWD and MSFT, it seems the individual and group of individuals that got burned are 1) Ed Bastion, and 2) DL customers.
It also seems rather clear that this current DL PR fiasco was likely the result of the Corp Comms team releases, probably encouraged with self-serving feedback from their IT team.
DL is a very good airline...let's see what they learn from this incident...but if all they do is keep on pointing fingers, then it will indicate that they have learned nothing.
I said Delta got burned, Longhorn. Not Microsoft.
This is actually the complete opposite. Delta needs Microsoft, not the other way around. Part of the only reason why DL has survived in SEA is in part due to corporate contracts w/ MSFT. PNW folks are more than happy to fly AS, especially with their generous corporate challenges to get MVP 75k every year.
A fun place to people watch is the Microsoft specific check in counter at SEA for DL...
You probably see a very long line of people who can actually fix the problem but the agents tell them to wait while they try to fix it themselves.
If both the letters from Microsoft and CrowdStrike are real and what they portray is true, I don't see Ed Bastian being Delta CEO any longer than until end of this year, and rather expect is dismissal even earlier.
Of course I don't know what's true and what not, but if he really didn't respond to messages from both companies, shareholders might not be very happy. I wonder if a lawsuit towards Delta management...
If both the letters from Microsoft and CrowdStrike are real and what they portray is true, I don't see Ed Bastian being Delta CEO any longer than until end of this year, and rather expect is dismissal even earlier.
Of course I don't know what's true and what not, but if he really didn't respond to messages from both companies, shareholders might not be very happy. I wonder if a lawsuit towards Delta management is already on the way (after all, that's what you usually see in those situations).
I can see why "regular employees" turn down the offer, given the common communication and decision-making structures in large corporations - but once the CEO gets involved, he can't put the blame on anyone else anymore. Not even responding at all sounds a bit like hiding on purpose to be able to shift blame later on.
Well, if the troubled systems weren't running on MS as the letter posits, then there probably wasn't much need for the CEOs to connect.
If they are real, that is under the question. It doesn't feel like someone with a legal background wire this.
*indeed not "under"..
*Wrote not "wire"..
I blame autocorrect lol
I know I have nothing to back this up so you can choose to believe me or not but I worked for Microsoft supporting Delta years ago. They were a very tough customer to deal with and would constantly make decisions that we specifically recommended against. I assume they are still paying for Unified Support which means they get support without having to pay more and I'm sure their TAM/CSM/whatever it's called now was doing...
I know I have nothing to back this up so you can choose to believe me or not but I worked for Microsoft supporting Delta years ago. They were a very tough customer to deal with and would constantly make decisions that we specifically recommended against. I assume they are still paying for Unified Support which means they get support without having to pay more and I'm sure their TAM/CSM/whatever it's called now was doing their job reaching out and doing what they can to make sure Microsoft was covering themselves. This is all on Delta.
Honestly that is so on brand for what is clearly the most arrogant airline management out of the Big 3. They sell out their vendors, they sell out their customers, and it's finally coming back to bite them with this letter and the lawsuit.
The letter is still fairly restrained , people in the IT/Software industry know that the reason it took so long for Delta to come back is they had no disaster recovery solution in place for their pilot / crew software.
Building resilient and highly available systems are fairly simple, but they cost money. IBM, AWS, Azure all offer this, so it is not the underlying technology , it is Delta management decision to not...
The letter is still fairly restrained , people in the IT/Software industry know that the reason it took so long for Delta to come back is they had no disaster recovery solution in place for their pilot / crew software.
Building resilient and highly available systems are fairly simple, but they cost money. IBM, AWS, Azure all offer this, so it is not the underlying technology , it is Delta management decision to not spend the money to deploy it.
Delta gambled and lost and now they want to blame their losses on others and the others are pushing back hard.
Amen. Tin Dumm and E Bastardian are either too arrogant, blind or stupid to acknowledge this simple truth you well stated @MoGreen. Worse, after Southwest's meltdown in 2022 for similar reasons (i.e, system resiliency and scaled recovery procedures) that substantially negatively impact operations and its finances, Delta was too arrogant, blind and stupid to take that as an opportunity to look internally at how it might prepare itself for a similar situation.
And here...
Amen. Tin Dumm and E Bastardian are either too arrogant, blind or stupid to acknowledge this simple truth you well stated @MoGreen. Worse, after Southwest's meltdown in 2022 for similar reasons (i.e, system resiliency and scaled recovery procedures) that substantially negatively impact operations and its finances, Delta was too arrogant, blind and stupid to take that as an opportunity to look internally at how it might prepare itself for a similar situation.
And here we are...
Oh, and it's Microsoft's and Crowdstrike's fault & responsibilty?... Delta = arrogant, blind, stupid.
Lucky: what is your source for this letter? Even better if you can repost the letter in full or at least link to a full version of the letter.
The CTO needs to b fired. The disaster recovery plan has gotta go and a new one is needed.
Good lord, this is even more savage than the CrowdStrike beatdown. Really unfortunate the way DL management set themselves up for this mess - I feel bad for the employees, who will really have their work cut out for them in salvaging the company reputation that management so recklessly trashed.
This letter is about as good as the law firm it came from. In other words, downright embarrassing.
The litigator representing Delta is the strongest litigator in the country. The firm representing Microsoft is a bad joke. They literally rank last place in the V50.
You okay?
I assume @Paul Weiss is an imposter for Tim Dunn?
Let's consider some basics:
DAL Market Cap is $24.48 billion
Crowdstrike Market Cap is $53.04 billion
Microsoft Market Cap is $2.94 trillion (2nd in the world, behind only Apple)
Yet this imposter is posting that somehow Delta can afford better legal representation than both Crowdstrike and Microsoft? I have no doubt that DAL has a great legal team on retainer, but I have...
I assume @Paul Weiss is an imposter for Tim Dunn?
Let's consider some basics:
DAL Market Cap is $24.48 billion
Crowdstrike Market Cap is $53.04 billion
Microsoft Market Cap is $2.94 trillion (2nd in the world, behind only Apple)
Yet this imposter is posting that somehow Delta can afford better legal representation than both Crowdstrike and Microsoft? I have no doubt that DAL has a great legal team on retainer, but I have no doubt that CRWD and MSFT can meet their talent equally and likely better. @Paul Weiss (Tim Dunn?) comments are silly and immature hyperbole.
"I assume @Paul Weiss is an imposter for Tim Dunn?"
No, he's the...special...one who goes by "Biglaw V10 Partner" because he's...special...not a lawyer, and not a partner of anything.
I do not go by Biglaw V10 Partner. Please retract & cease your defamation immediately.
Well, I don't know, I heard you go by Biglaw V10 Partner.
"I do not go by Biglaw V10 Partner."
Yes you do.
And go eff yourself.
Now sue me. :)
now you're just embarrassing yourself. stop.
Very odd to cite Vault rankings as your metric. Dechert is #50 as you noted... but Boies Schiller is ranked #56. Also, if you're a top litigator in the US, you know Mark Cheffo is a very solid lawyer. And much less likely than Boies to publicly overstate his client's position than Boies.
Yep. He started posting as Biglaw V10 Partner but was banned under that name (his own admission) and then started posting as Paul Weiss (for anyone outside of the profession, Paul Weiss is a major, well respected NYC law firm). Virtually everything he posts is incorrect or simply insane. I've reported him to Lucky and Tiffany twice. I first thought he might be a disgruntled associate but his stuff is so wacko that I doubt...
Yep. He started posting as Biglaw V10 Partner but was banned under that name (his own admission) and then started posting as Paul Weiss (for anyone outside of the profession, Paul Weiss is a major, well respected NYC law firm). Virtually everything he posts is incorrect or simply insane. I've reported him to Lucky and Tiffany twice. I first thought he might be a disgruntled associate but his stuff is so wacko that I doubt he had any legal training. I think he's just a troll who just reads AbovetheLaw in his spare time. I also think that partners at Paul Weiss would have a heart attack knowing he is posting under their name, and if anyone here as any friends at Paul Weiss, it might be a good idea to let them know that someone is using their name in a defamatory fashion.
Here is my address where I accept service of process.
100 Suggon Deeznuts Avenue
Suite 8=D
Ligma, B’awlzac 42069
Ask Tim nicely and maybe he would show up to Ligyu.
Yep, PW is a sh!t-poster imposter.
Delta market cap: 25.93 billion
Microsoft market cap: 3.07 trillion
If the CEO of Microsoft, which is worth more than 100x your company, reaches out, then maybe try responding next time Ed. There's a reason why Delta is puny in the grand scheme of things.
His PR handlers at DL told him that silence is today's strategy.
This is a demonstration of poor leadership and poor advice. At a minimum, the CIO needs to go, along with their legal counsel. Maybe even the CEO for not using common sense and applying his own mind before making threats.
As someone in IT that sees my share of clueless, penny pinching CIOs this sounds like the case. DL didn't want "help" because the CIO didn't want to pay for support or onsite assistance.
I think Crowdstrike offered free support.
Wasn't Ed in Paris?
If so, did he immediately fly back to the US?
Ed was not in Paris. He delayed the trip but left before everything was resolved.
"If so, did he immediately fly back to the US?"
His flight was cancelled.
This is just too good. Lmao
When your own IT team and SMEs rebuff offers for assistance from the people who make the software, you pretty much hang a noose around your neck at that point.
I don't know why anyone or organization, during such a hellstorm, would turn away assistance from the people who are most qualified. That's just beyond poor judgement.
Then to have the gall to point fingers at them? Man, such detachment from reality.
Delta is starting to remind me a bit of Continental in the later years of Kelleher and Smisek. It's sort of capitalizing on good will and reputation. A lot.
When the CEO of CrowdStrike contacts the CEO of Delta, and is ignored/rebuffed, and then the CEO of Microsoft contacts the CEO of Delta, and is literally ignored, the DL arrogance factor takes on a life of its own.
DL really is in for a rude awakening, and rightly so. And Ed Bastian has a LOT of explaining to do when he gets back from his vacation in Paris.
If Ed Bastian gets fired where does Timmy D rank on the shortlist for CEO? Gotta be top 100 candidate no?
Tom Brady might have the edge there.
These letters are legal posturing, given the money at stake. I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but I don't think a bunch of aggressive letters is the same as a group of facts.
These letters draw a line in the sand. Microsoft and Crowdstrike are putting Delta on notice that Bastian's comments must stop because they are "are incomplete, false, misleading, and damaging to (them) and its reputation".
Microsoft hired Mark S Cheffo to represent them, and he is a leading litigator in product liability lawsuites. He is saying, “It is rapidly becoming apparent that Delta likely refused Microsoft’s help because the IT system it was most...
These letters draw a line in the sand. Microsoft and Crowdstrike are putting Delta on notice that Bastian's comments must stop because they are "are incomplete, false, misleading, and damaging to (them) and its reputation".
Microsoft hired Mark S Cheffo to represent them, and he is a leading litigator in product liability lawsuites. He is saying, “It is rapidly becoming apparent that Delta likely refused Microsoft’s help because the IT system it was most having trouble restoring — its crew-tracking and scheduling system — was being serviced by other technology providers, such as IBM, because it runs on those providers’ systems, and not Microsoft Windows or Azure.”
Delta hired David Boies to go after Microsoft and Crowdstrike. Boies is a prominent attorney and chairman of Boies Schiller Flexner. He is known for representing the U.S. government in its landmark antitrust case against Microsoft, and for helping win a decision that overturned California’s ban on gay marriage. He also worked with Harvey Weinstein, the imprisoned former Hollywood mogul, and Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes, who is currently serving a prison sentence for defrauding investors.
Delta really stepped in it. Time to hire back the fired IT staff and invest in system upgrades.
Sounds like the echo chamber within Delta just got a rude awakening from the outside world. Wouldn't be surprised to see the hubris ego bubble deflate a bit after this.
Their management team needed a wrecking to put an end to their stubbornness.
Why invest in IT when you already had a perfect operation? That was Eds mentality...
looking forward to a very normal comments section today!
He has given up lol.
That or he sold his Delta stock.
As a Delta employee, I can tell you, the morale is low and the confidence in our CEO is even lower. We know what really happened and how the CEO is portraying it, not matching up. Our CEO has forgotten about putting our people before profits.
Tends to happen when Ed Bastian pushes out all his enemies in management.
He has ruined what Richard Anderson has built
Wait, I thought DL was a well oiled machine?
Jokes aside, the part from the letter which I think is the crux of the matter is that it ostensibly seems DL runs systems based on IBM and both UA and AA run on systems based on Microsoft and that is why both UA and AA recovered quicker.
Two things however: What does Crowdstrike have to do with IBM and the recent meltdown and what about the other carriers? How did they fare (pun intended)?
Microsoft is not better than IBM in the way you imagine. The underlying system doesn't make a difference for the crew scheduling system, it is more an issue of when the system was created and when it was last modernised (my guess would be, that it is ancient).
Crowdstrike doesn't have anything to do with IBM, and if DLs crew scheduling system really doesn't run on Windows it was never impacted by Crowdstrike. Crowdstrike...
Microsoft is not better than IBM in the way you imagine. The underlying system doesn't make a difference for the crew scheduling system, it is more an issue of when the system was created and when it was last modernised (my guess would be, that it is ancient).
Crowdstrike doesn't have anything to do with IBM, and if DLs crew scheduling system really doesn't run on Windows it was never impacted by Crowdstrike. Crowdstrike however impacted other systems at DL which subsequently forced them to cancel many flights - requiring complicated and intensive rescheduling of the crew which apparently was not managed well by the tool they have for this.