Lufthansa is facing a lawsuit in which it’s being accused of outing a gay couple to the Saudi Arabian government, due to the indiscretion of a manager for the airline, who also reportedly demeaned the couple. This is quite a wild story, and based on the allegations, it sure seems like they have a point (thanks to an OMAAT reader who is a lawyer for bringing this to my attention)…
In this post:
Lufthansa manager in Riyadh accused of indiscretion
This incident involves a gay couple, with one man being a United States citizen, and one man being a Saudi Arabian citizen. The couple had been together for over 30 years, in a “committed, but discreet” relationship, and spent most of their time living in Saudi Arabia, but they also often traveled to San Francisco. In 2013, they were legally married in California.
As it’s described, “living very carefully, they successfully kept their 33-year relationship a secret from the government, strangers, employers, friends, and family, alike.” That all changed in May 2021, when the couple wanted to return to San Francisco, after being stuck in Saudi Arabia for over a year, due to pandemic restrictions.
At the time, the United States banned non-citizen travelers from Saudi Arabia from entering the United States, unless they had immediate family who were United States citizens. The couple claimed they booked Lufthansa over other airlines because they expected that Lufthansa would be discreet in handling their martial status for the purposes of the United States entry requirements.
When the couple arrived at Riyadh Airport to check-in, the Lufthansa agent requested that the Saudi Arabian citizen provide his familial relationship that granted him entry to the United States. So they requested to speak to the most senior Lufthansa official at the airport, who was the deputy station manager. While out of earshot of anyone, the couple explained they were married.
The deputy station manager reportedly became loud and hostile, declaring loudly that he could not believe they were married. Even after presenting the marriage certificate, the manager continued to publicly demean and question the relationship.
They were then taken to Lufthansa’s office at the airport, so that copies of the passports and marriage certificate could be sent to Lufthansa’s headquarters. They expressed concern about the Saudi government intercepting these communications, but those concerns were ignored. They asked the deputy manager to call the station manager, but he reportedly refused to speak to them.
The couple were allowed to board, but were shaken by what happened. Long story short, there were a lot of communication failures (Lufthansa claimed they’d reach out to them, but never did), but here’s where it gets problematic.
Around a month after the incident, the Saudi Arabian citizen discovered that his marital status on his Saudi government profile was changed from “single” to “married,” and they allege that “there is no conceivable way the Saudi Arabian government could have learned about Plaintiffs’ marriage other than as a result of” what happened on this Lufthansa flight.
The Saudi Arabian citizen never returned home again
Since this incident, the Saudi Arabian citizen hasn’t returned to his home country, “for fear of harsh penalties for being homosexual, including the revocation of his passport, imprisonment, and even execution.”
Instead, he has remained in the United States, first through a visa, and then through a Green Card. He has also not seen his family since the incident. They all live in Saudi Arabia, and don’t know about his sexuality.
As a result of this, the couple also claims they had to sell real estate in Saudi Arabia, incurring a loss of around $300K. The Saudi citizen also claims to have developed pulmonary fibrosis, a terminal illness, which he claims is a result of the stress from the incident.
In 2024, a judge had ruled that the lawsuit couldn’t proceed in California, because while Lufthansa does business in California, “plaintiffs failed to show that their claims arise out of or relate to defendants’ activities in California.” However, that wasn’t the end of this. The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth District has just issued a decision, reversing the previous decision.
My take on this Lufthansa Saudi Arabia lawsuit
I’m not a lawyer, so I’m not going to claim to have a good take on the legal basis of this lawsuit. However, I certainly feel bad for this couple, and have a few thoughts:
- Bigger picture, I feel bad for this Saudi Arabian citizen, as I can only imagine the stress he has felt living in the closet for decades; I know this is so common in many parts of the world, but I’m grateful that I can just be myself and live openly, and have the acceptance of family and friends
- Shame on this deputy station manager for his lack of discretion; I understand he might personally take issues with the way other people live their lives, but one would hope that employees for a German airline are trained when it comes to respect and tolerance in line with the values of that company, at a minimum (for what it’s worth, this guy still seems to work at Lufthansa, based on his LinkedIn)
- I am curious about how the information sharing could’ve actually happened here; does this have to be something as nefarious as the Saudi Arabian government “intercepting” these communications, or the manager proactively reporting this to the government, or is there just a certain level of information sharing between governments?
- I also don’t actually know what kind of repercussions this man would face; admittedly a citizen might face harsher punishments than a foreigner, since generally there aren’t laws against “being gay” (as in… having gay thoughts), but instead, the laws are against acting on it, etc.
- I’m curious if the accusations can actually be proven, beyond there just being a hunch that this thing that happened at Lufthansa check-in triggered all of this; yes, it seems likely, but is it beyond a reasonable doubt?
Bottom line
Lufthansa is facing a lawsuit over a 2021 incident, where an American and Saudi Arabian gay couple were traveling from Saudi Arabia to the United States. Due to pandemic restrictions, they had to prove their marriage in order to enter the United States.
The Lufthansa manager at Riyadh Airport was reportedly incredibly rude to them, didn’t believe they were married, and became loud and hostile. A month later, the Saudi Arabian citizen noticed his government profile showed his marital status as being updated, from “single” to “married.”
He hasn’t returned to Saudi Arabia since, meaning he hasn’t seen his family, and he claims to have even developed serious health issues as a result of the stress from this incident.
What do you make of this Lufthansa “outing” situation?
And yet some stupid Americans believe the US is the worst country in the world. Ignorants who should be living in these types of countries including communist countries so that they can appreciate the US.
I respectfully disagree with most comments here. My guess is that Saudi law eoyehr explicitly or implicitly required the manager to notify the authorities. And so he just did his job whether he was happy about it or not.
Despite that, I do feel bad for the Saudi passenger. But he did also have 30 years to plan for a situation in which he'd be outed. Why did he live illegally in his country? Why not move to the US or elsewhere with his spouse?
Saudi isn't exactly a country with rule of law in anything like the western sense. It only recently actually started writing down what its laws are. Until super recently, the "law" of Saudi Arabia was just Islamic religious law (Sharia), not anything that was actually written down in a book you could look up.
So your assumption that there was some clearly defined procedure or rule that was being followed by Lufthansa employee in...
Saudi isn't exactly a country with rule of law in anything like the western sense. It only recently actually started writing down what its laws are. Until super recently, the "law" of Saudi Arabia was just Islamic religious law (Sharia), not anything that was actually written down in a book you could look up.
So your assumption that there was some clearly defined procedure or rule that was being followed by Lufthansa employee in 2021 is pretty dubious. Saudi didn't codify its family law until 2022! Simply put, Saudi definitely isn't Germany.
Also, the plaintiffs said they flew a German airline because they expected that their privacy would be more respected than by a Saudi or other Gulf airline. (A reasonable assumption given the EU's very strong privacy laws.) The disclosure of their marital status was relevant only to the US authorities, not the Saudis. And your "guess" that there was an "implicit" requirement to disclose that to the local authorities is total speculation.
Glad both the US and SA are shooting for life in 1266
The couple, who are gay and can live in the US instead, chose to live in a country that is open to killing them if the secret ever gets out. I am 100% pro gay marriage, but I actually don't think the airline is to blame here. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I mean if it's true that the Saudi Lufthansa employee went rogue and disclosed their marital status to the Saudi authorities when there was no requirement for him to do so (and they didn't appear to be: it was the US, not Saudi, that needed to know their marital status), then I absolutely think Lufthansa is to blame. Or, I certainly wouldn't want to have to defend that to a jury! (Note that if this...
I mean if it's true that the Saudi Lufthansa employee went rogue and disclosed their marital status to the Saudi authorities when there was no requirement for him to do so (and they didn't appear to be: it was the US, not Saudi, that needed to know their marital status), then I absolutely think Lufthansa is to blame. Or, I certainly wouldn't want to have to defend that to a jury! (Note that if this case goes to trial, it will be in San Francisco, not exactly the best venue for Lufthansa in a case like this.)
I’m all for letting people do as they please, but breaking a law, regardless of whether you believe in that law or not, is illegal. The right thing to do was to leave KSA as that is a logical solution.
Actions have consequences and you cannot shame a government because you don’t agree with their laws. You simply don’t visit or go to that country. Simple as that.
Oh, one cannot contract pulmonary...
I’m all for letting people do as they please, but breaking a law, regardless of whether you believe in that law or not, is illegal. The right thing to do was to leave KSA as that is a logical solution.
Actions have consequences and you cannot shame a government because you don’t agree with their laws. You simply don’t visit or go to that country. Simple as that.
Oh, one cannot contract pulmonary fibrosis from stress. It’s not medically possible. I truly believe these fellas are just trying to find a money grab due to the situation. Lufthansa did all the right things requiring proof for travel and it can never be proven they did anything wrong. Which they actually didn’t.
You may not like this post, but it’s fact.
Exactly, this is a frivolous lawsuit but I suppose that the nature of the American legal system incentivises that sort of thing in pursuit of fat settlements...
@Rhino(plasty) "You may not like this post, but it’s fact."
You say "I truly believe..." and then refer to that as fact? You assert Lufthansa "did all the right things," which is an opinion since there's no real list of 'things" but , of course you assert that as fact. Then you commit the cardinal sin of OHMYGOD a SENTENCE FRAGMENT as if "Which they actually didn't" is a sentence.
Yes, your post is...
@Rhino(plasty) "You may not like this post, but it’s fact."
You say "I truly believe..." and then refer to that as fact? You assert Lufthansa "did all the right things," which is an opinion since there's no real list of 'things" but , of course you assert that as fact. Then you commit the cardinal sin of OHMYGOD a SENTENCE FRAGMENT as if "Which they actually didn't" is a sentence.
Yes, your post is a fact. You did indeed make a post. Yes, I don't like your post, because nothing you say is factual!
I just don’t understand how his status in the KSA-database can be “married” if gay-marriage does not exist in that country.
Correct. It’s not recognised
Lufthansa are a global airline their employees must share their values this is horrific my heart bleeds for the couple involved and hope they can find some peace after such an ordeal.
The Saudi citizen also claims to have developed pulmonary fibrosis, a terminal illness, which he claims is a result of the stress from the incident.
>>>>>not likely
Yeah, that does seem unlikely. He'll have a very tough time convincing anyone of that.
For a civil case it does not need to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt." That is a criminal standard. Only a preponderance of the evidence standard applies here which is a 51%+ chance that they were liable.
Don’t know about you, but I feel that we may have just witnessed the Saudi government recognizing a same-sex marriage for the first time ever.
Long shot, but a girl can dream.
Did you say the Saudi citizen was fearful of fines, imprisonment, or execution and this has never returned home?
Nah I don’t believe this story for a minute.
How could Saudia Arabia, Mecca of “the state religion of peace,” ever do such a thing to a discreet upstanding citizen?
All “the religion of peace” does is cut of the extremities of gays until they are dead, or just throws the gays off tallest buildings...
Did you say the Saudi citizen was fearful of fines, imprisonment, or execution and this has never returned home?
Nah I don’t believe this story for a minute.
How could Saudia Arabia, Mecca of “the state religion of peace,” ever do such a thing to a discreet upstanding citizen?
All “the religion of peace” does is cut of the extremities of gays until they are dead, or just throws the gays off tallest buildings until the gays are dead if the gays are not stoned to death in either manner first.
How can any of you live with yourself who travel or work or support any Muslim Airlines is what I ask with this kind of barbarism these types of governments believe in.
There is a very simple reason that the Saudis knew about it.....
All airline passenger data has to be transmitted to the government. The USA requires it....Canada requires it.....UK requires it.....EU requires it. So there is a regulatory requirement to transmit this also in Saudi Arabia.
I think the demeanor of the agent is deplorable....and yes better Customer Service could have been provided. But I think this isnt going to go anywhere as LH...
There is a very simple reason that the Saudis knew about it.....
All airline passenger data has to be transmitted to the government. The USA requires it....Canada requires it.....UK requires it.....EU requires it. So there is a regulatory requirement to transmit this also in Saudi Arabia.
I think the demeanor of the agent is deplorable....and yes better Customer Service could have been provided. But I think this isnt going to go anywhere as LH can just point to a regulatory requirement to transmit all documentation and visa information to the government in the name of "safety".....
Im gay .... i get the fear....but also i would have recommended to travel to a third country first where you didnt need to upload any relationship information for entry requirements.....me and my partner travel a lot....but we also are "good buddies" a lot of the time to keep other records private to airline reservation systems.
To travel to Which third country during covid?
@Klaus_S , they were travelling l in May 2021, I had no issues visiting Barcelona around Easter of that year (figured that it was an once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to have a look without having to battle against thousands of fellow tourists).
This is hardly surprising. Stories like this always attract comments about how easy hooking up is in these goat-herder countries, but fail to acknowledge that actually living there as a same-sex couple is fraught with danger. All it takes is one psychotically fanatical zealot to unravel your entire life.
Why LGB people keep visiting these horrible places, flying with their airlines, and staying in their hotels and resorts is beyond my comprehension.
What's even worse how LGB goes and protests for these people and act like they are in some kind of human rights struggle together. Make it make sense.
I'd argue that it's the LGBTQIA+ crowd who beclown themselves with nonsense like "Queers for Palestine". LGB is something altogether different, and is not a political or identity movement. The Alphabet People "Queers" do not represent us.
Just confirms to me that I have not heard anything good out of Saudi Arabia for all the years I've been alive, to make me interested in going there, or passing through there. Or Dubai, either.
Oh, but their shiny new airline! Their fantastic new resorts!
It's a fkn dump. The only reason Westerners go there is to make money and then get out as soon as they've made their pile. Same goes for the UAE. Why any wealthy person seeking to reduce their tax burden would choose to live in Dubai instead of somewhere like Italy or Monaco is a complete mystery to me.
I am a man married to a man from the Middle East, and I have had to be extremely careful never to let it be known that we’re married in countries where penalties are harsh.
A better option is to fly to a third country and then travel to your final destination from there.
Don’t trust anyone in the GCC countries with your sexuality. It’s a huge risk there, even if they work for a western company.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work the third country trick out, they were simply asking for trouble.
No idea how any of this will end up, but, I applaud anyone willing to go through the effort of suing a major corporation. Some of you may disagree, but I still like to root for the 'little guy.' Also, this situation doesn't seem like the mere 'mention it on a post-flight survey' kinda thing.
We are talking about Lufthansa. Given everything that we've heard about Lufthansa, how is this not true? Of course, a jury will decide. But, amongst us girls, come on.
It's time we all got more interested in the subject of "exit controls". Is Lufthansa obliged to report all data in the PNR including staff notes? Is the airline's system entirely accessible to government? It wouldn't surprise me if KSA has full access to everything a check-in desk agent has access to.
Is this the first case of a gay marriage being legalized in Saudi Arabia? If it's in official Saudi government files, then it's legal yeah?
Perhaps media should start saying that Saudi has legalized gay marriage which will embarrass them enough to reverse the Marital notification on the person's documents
Islam Shariah law. Coming soon to NYC courtesy of Mamdani and democrats votes
Yup. I am sure you also forecasted that AOC would bring communism to New York.
Meanwhile, our first family is licking the boots of the middle eastern "royals".
Both of your statements are true.
I note the lack of proof that LH informed the authorities. I also note that it is extremely difficult to assign blame for a stress related illness.
My take is that Germans, and by extension German businesses are very scrupulous about the letter of the law. The Local manager was trying to absolutely avoid blame for boarding a passenger that might be sent back.
This lawsuit is only at the complaint stage, and the trial court dismissed for technical jurisdictional reasons, which the Court of Appeals overturned. So the plaintiffs never had a chance to engage in discovery to learn more about what happened. Now the case will go back to the trial court, and the plaintiffs will get a chance to gather more evidence through discovery to prove what actually happened, such as through demanding Lufthansa disclose all...
This lawsuit is only at the complaint stage, and the trial court dismissed for technical jurisdictional reasons, which the Court of Appeals overturned. So the plaintiffs never had a chance to engage in discovery to learn more about what happened. Now the case will go back to the trial court, and the plaintiffs will get a chance to gather more evidence through discovery to prove what actually happened, such as through demanding Lufthansa disclose all documents to the plaintiffs about this incident, doing depositions of Lufthansa employees, etc.
It's totally normal for a plaintiff at any early stage of litigation (when just filing a complaint) to not have access to the full facts about the situation. That's what discovery is for. More information will come out as the case proceeds. And, based on the facts alleged in the complaint, it's not a huge leap to assume that Lufthansa disclosed this information to the Saudi government.
I agree the stress-related illness thing seems like a weaker claim for damages (though being uprooted from your home country is no small thing). The forced sale of real estate, and the inability to continue working for a company because you can't safely return to the country where your job was, seem like stronger claims for damages to me.
Something doesn't add up though, if they were legally married in California in 2013, how come the Saudi national didn't have a have a Green Card by 2021, 8 years later? Yes, it's true that KSA doesn't allow dual citizenship, but a Green Card should have been more than sufficient to board the flight without arousing any suspicion.
Perhaps because he didn't need it so he never bothered to apply? Based on the information in the article it seems they didn't live in the US.
It sounds like he got the Green Card after he travelled to the US in 2021. They were living in Saudi, so he had no reason to apply for a Green Card, which you can lose if you don't actually reside in the United States. (It's technically called lawful permanent residency, and to be an LPR, you need to actually make the US your permanent residence.)
Actually, this does add up. You can't hold a green card if you live outside of the United States. This couple lived in Saudi Arabia.
Any absence of more than a year is more or less an automatic revocation of the green card, and absences of more than 6 months trigger a review by CBP.
"...trigger a review by CBP"...who will then beat you, break your ribs, shoot you in the face with a pepper ball, and disappear you to a gulag in El Salvador or South Sudan (and soon to be one of the US concentration camps currently being built by the orange baboon and his Nazi sympathizers and enablers).
If one wants to be mistreated, abused, or tortured, no need to go to Saudi Arabia.
The burden of proof for a civil case is “preponderance of evidence” ie, “more likely than not,” which is a lower burden than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” burden of proof for a criminal matter.
Also "on the balance of probabilities".
"The deputy station manager reportedly became loud and hostile, declaring loudly that he could not believe they were married. Even after presenting the marriage certificate, the manager continued to publicly demean and question the relationship."
What a gross situation. The pulmonary fibrosis part is going to be extreeeeeeeemely difficult to prove, but assuming the rest of the facts as laid out are true, Lufthansa really crapped the bed with this one, irrespective of what country...
"The deputy station manager reportedly became loud and hostile, declaring loudly that he could not believe they were married. Even after presenting the marriage certificate, the manager continued to publicly demean and question the relationship."
What a gross situation. The pulmonary fibrosis part is going to be extreeeeeeeemely difficult to prove, but assuming the rest of the facts as laid out are true, Lufthansa really crapped the bed with this one, irrespective of what country employed the assholes who were so degrading.
One can only wonder if this is the "Saudi Arabian hospitality" the world can look forward to with the Saudi push to increase tourism. They should certainly get a lot of RWNJs from the USA on cheap package trips.
True story...perhaps Delta or Saudia can start a Boise to Riyadh flight.
"They should certainly get a lot of RWNJs from the USA on cheap package trips."
You think RWNJs are going to go anywhere NEAR a place where there's big scary dark Moo-Slims, who wear wrapped cloth (of any type) on their head?
The kind of people they've been told (every day for 24 years) need to carry a handheld day planner, to schedule all the infidel beheadings that they do every hour?
Saudia Arabia and most of the 'Arabic' world can do as they please, but their values certainly don't fit the wests. I won't ever visit.
I'm with you. I'm a straight, but I'll never travel to or through a country where homosexuality is illegal.
Currently, about 60 countries around the world criminalize consensual same-sex sexual activity, including: Afghanistan, Algeria, Antigua and Barbuda, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Burundi, Cameroon, Chad, Comoros, Cook Islands (male only), Egypt, Eritrea, Eswatini, Ethiopia, Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guinea, Guyana, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Morocco, Myanmar, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, St. Kitts and...
Currently, about 60 countries around the world criminalize consensual same-sex sexual activity, including: Afghanistan, Algeria, Antigua and Barbuda, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Burundi, Cameroon, Chad, Comoros, Cook Islands (male only), Egypt, Eritrea, Eswatini, Ethiopia, Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guinea, Guyana, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Morocco, Myanmar, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Syria, Tanzania, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago (male only), Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. While you may not be interested in many of those, you likely have been to or through some.
Yet, while there are unfortunately such laws 'on the books,' let's be real, the likelihood of some of those places 'prosecuting' is minimal. Like, if you speed even 1 mph over the limit, technically, you've committed a crime, but, in most cases, they won't enforce that strictly.
You're correct - half of those countries wouldn't bother launching a prosecution, and the other half are ghastly shtholes that nobody with two functioning synapses visits on purpose.
I admire where you are coming from. As an older gay man, I clearly remember when I was "Illegal" in my own country, the USA.
It's ok though, Delta would never do this on their Riyadh flights!
This is why people bragging about flying to the ME always leaves a bad taste in my mouth
Where's PlaneJane to remind us of Delta's record about who they hire/don't hire in the past...?