Germany’s Bild has an interesting story about a recent LOT Polish Airlines flight that had to return to Warsaw, after diverting to Hannover, which reader Klaus forwarded to me. The story describes this as a “chaos flight,” where “passengers flew back because the airline was too stingy.” Is that a fair criticism? Let’s take a look.
In this post:
Dusseldorf-bound LOT flight diverts to Hannover, then Warsaw
This incident happened on Monday, September 18, 2023, and involves LOT Polish Airlines flight LO407, which was scheduled to operate from Warsaw (WAW) to Dusseldorf (DUS). The planned 612-mile flight was operated by a 13-year-old Embraer E175 with the registration code SP-LIL, and had 75 passengers onboard.
The flight was scheduled to depart at 5PM and arrive at 7PM. It was delayed a bit on departure, and ended up taking off from Warsaw at 6:21PM. By around 7:40PM, the aircraft was near Dusseldorf, but unfortunately weather conditions had deteriorated. The aircraft circled for around 25 minutes. When conditions didn’t improve, the decision was made to divert to Hannover, about 150 miles from Dusseldorf. The aircraft landed there safely at around 8:25PM.
This is where matters get complicated. Once the plane was on the ground, passengers weren’t allowed to deplane, but rather the police showed up just to manage the situation and make sure no passengers got off the aircraft.
The captain was presumably in communication with operations folks at the airline, and made the decision to refuel the aircraft and keep passengers onboard. The initial hope was that conditions would improve in Dusseldorf, so the airline could still operate there. However, when conditions didn’t improve, the decision was made to return to Warsaw, due to a lack of other options.
This outraged many passengers, who argued that they should be able to get off the plane in Hannover. In the end, the airline agreed to let those with just carry-on bags off the aircraft, which was a total of 10 people, and they could make their way on their own to their final destination.
In the end, the aircraft took off again from Hannover at 10:58PM, and landed in Warsaw at 12:06AM. So passengers were back where they started, over six hours after their scheduled departure time.
Here’s how a spokesperson for the police describes the situation:
“We were only there to secure the runway. The airline and the airport are responsible for the matter.”
Here’s how a spokesperson for the airport describes the situation:
“It was the pilot’s decision that the plane would not be unloaded in Hanover and should continue flying. LOT is currently not a partner of the handling agents at Hanover Airport.”
Here’s how a spokesperson for the airline describes the situation:
“Despite several hours of negotiations with the airport, there were not enough staff and equipment (e.g. passenger boarding bridges, buses) available that day to serve the passengers of LO 407. The crew may not allow passengers to disembark if the journey to the terminal is not properly secured. “In addition, we have been informed that there are no hotel spaces and no possibility to provide our passengers with adequate care – transport, accommodation, meals.”
Was LOT Polish Airlines being cheap?
One passenger who was able to deplane states that he “called a pilot [he] knew and asked for advice” about how the passengers could fight for their “freedom.” He claims that “the point was that LOT didn’t want to pay for people to get out.” He further states:
“I will never fly with LOT again because I don’t want to run the risk of being held against my will on the plane. I am also disappointed in the federal police because they did not help all passengers immediately.”
He ended up arriving at his destination around 3AM, after reportedly spending €400 on a rental car. He now plans to file a complaint against… the pilot?
Let me acknowledge that this was an unpleasant ordeal for all passengers involved. The 10 people who were able to deplane had quite the journey to get to their destination, while other passengers took a six hour trip to nowhere.
While this no doubt sucked, my read on the situation isn’t that this was a “chaos flight,” or that the airline was being stingy. Rather this highlights the complexities of airline operations, from unpredictable weather, to airport curfews:
- When the plane diverted to Hannover, presumably the plan was initially to refuel and to still fly to Dusseldorf before the curfew, though unfortunately conditions didn’t improve in time
- LOT Polish Airlines doesn’t ordinarily fly to Hannover, and airline logistics are incredibly complicated; we’re not just talking about finding a way to have passengers deplane at the airport, but there also needs to be a plan for getting people to their final destination or getting them hotel accommodations, given the duty of care European airlines have
- We don’t know with certainty how hard LOT tried, but finding 80(ish) hotel rooms and/or getting multiple buses for that many people this late at night to a destination 150 miles away isn’t exactly easy
- While it of course sucks to have to return to your origin, sometimes that’s the best way that an airline can keep its obligations regarding passenger care, since the airline can easily block rooms, provide customer service, arrange alternative flights, etc.
Was LOT a bit disorganized in this instance? It’s possible. But I don’t think the airline was acting “stingy,” because operating an extra flight just to take passengers back to their origin isn’t exactly a cheap undertaking.
Bottom line
LOT Polish Airlines had a complicated diversion for a recent Warsaw to Dusseldorf flight. The Embraer E175 wasn’t able to land in Dusseldorf due to bad weather. The plane then diverted to Hannover. Unfortunately conditions at Dusseldorf Airport didn’t improve, so the plane ended up returning to Warsaw, where it landed six hours after its scheduled departure.
While obviously a frustrating situation for passengers, I also don’t think the airline can reasonably be accused of being stingy. Rather, I think this is one of those situations that highlights the complexity of the airline industry.
What do you make of this LOT Polish Airlines diversion?
I'm in Aviation all over BC Coast
I have sat in tiny.rooms for hours and never threw blame into it because I knew they all worked hard to help
Helicopters or fixed wing it's all the same
I just chalk it up to the adventure of my journeys
On September 18 th was the begin of EMO, the largest machine-tool Show in Europe if not the World.
Don't even think about to find hotel rooms for a Group of 80.
Passengers are wrong. Captain was doing what he thought best to safeguard the passengers. He’s the experienced boss not them.
Love LOT...they have one of the best pilots...
To the person who said he "will never fly w/LOT again"...plesse don't !!!
I work for travel industry and heard a lot of stories like this one...all communications between the pilot and the airport must be recorded , there are certain rules and regulations ...and unfortunately there is so much the pilot can do in situations like this one.
I am with the pilot on this one.
First of all, LOT is a member of Star Alliance together with Lufthansa. Where is this partnership in this case if LOT has to handle issue like this as of it landed in the Third World Country instead of an airport probably operated by the friendly alliance member.
Secondly, knowing they have to divert, why didn't they divert to an alternative airport where they do have regular connections, rather than Hanover they never fly...
First of all, LOT is a member of Star Alliance together with Lufthansa. Where is this partnership in this case if LOT has to handle issue like this as of it landed in the Third World Country instead of an airport probably operated by the friendly alliance member.
Secondly, knowing they have to divert, why didn't they divert to an alternative airport where they do have regular connections, rather than Hanover they never fly to?
Thirdly, The EU is becoming a nightmare of burocratic nonsense, with laws and regulations cancelling and contradicting each other. Something has to be done before this leads to total paralysis.
LOT does not Flyer to many airports in Germany. So the online Alternative from Duesseldorf World have been Frankfurt. All others they serve are 2 far away.
My LOT flight from Tel Aviv to Warsaw was totally packed - 186 people - almost all Polish pilgrims - on a Boeing 737 Max - and there was only ONE toilet operating and avaiable on a four and a half hour flight. Scandalous!!
In Ireland I would likely be able to bring criminal charges of unlawful imprisonment against the captain of the aircraft and anyone else who assisted him. I wonder what is the German law concerning unlawful imprisonment and the removal of a person or persons from German territory against their will. Especially of German citizens.
That’s all lies and exaggerations. You can easily spot it at the claim there are no hotel rooms. Hannover trade fair has one of the world’s largest events which up to 1 mio visitors.
Next lie: We can’t disembark the tiny plane over the just one bridge, which the ten hand luggage passengers went. Yeah, would have at least taken a whopping five minutes.
It was just about getting the airplane back in the crews work hours.
Doesn't make a difference what airport they were at. I had a 12 hour delay at Warsaw and LOT were utterly useless. Still waiting on hotel refund and compensation.
Delays can be complicated, but LOT won't lift a finger to try to deal with it.
Actually LOT did not play for the customers on board here - DUS in fact DID reopen so they could have flown HAJ-DUS the same day, yet at that point it would have been unsure if they could leave DUS before the curfew set in, so that the aircraft would have been stuck in DUS and would not be available the next morning in WAW. So LO chose their general operations were more important that...
Actually LOT did not play for the customers on board here - DUS in fact DID reopen so they could have flown HAJ-DUS the same day, yet at that point it would have been unsure if they could leave DUS before the curfew set in, so that the aircraft would have been stuck in DUS and would not be available the next morning in WAW. So LO chose their general operations were more important that get the people back home (or wherever they wanted to go) that were on this flight.
I always admire people in such a situation - if I would have been denied deplaning in HAJ I'd tell the crew I would put the next exit into flight and then open it - I'm sure they would have let me off no matter if I had bags or not...
HER KLAUS IS A VERY NICE...
I was flying Lufthansa from Miami , due to bad weather plain from Frankfurt did not land in Miami , so we waited 5 hr to depart… so I lost connection flight in Frankfurt and had to wait 2,5 hr in line to customers service to rebooked my next flight, then wait 9,5 hr in airport to departure… so is not only polish Lot can get frustrated situation…
Few days ego my son was...
I was flying Lufthansa from Miami , due to bad weather plain from Frankfurt did not land in Miami , so we waited 5 hr to depart… so I lost connection flight in Frankfurt and had to wait 2,5 hr in line to customers service to rebooked my next flight, then wait 9,5 hr in airport to departure… so is not only polish Lot can get frustrated situation…
Few days ego my son was flying from Frankfurt to Miami and they can not landed beacuse of bad weather so thy landed in Fort Myers (2,5hr by car from Miami ) they waited 6 hrs in , nobody can not get out…
Thank you for sharing your fascinating story, Halina. Can you tell us of other times you've been delayed? It's really interesting.
Lot Airlines is an excellent company. They made the right decision for the safety and the care of the passengers in every way. I have flown Lot. They are well organized.
If LOT wants to fly to Germany, LOT should have an agreement with Lufthansa to take care of its flights that are diverted to an airport where Lufthansa can help them. How many Polish airline executives does it take, to negotiate such a deal?
Lufthansa has wanted to take over LOT (LOT is already in Miles & More) for years, to expand the area of Central Europe where they have no competition from other full-service airlines.
They were annoyed when LOT tried to take over Condor (Lufthansa wanted it, again to remove competition) at the beginning of Covid: https://onemileatatime.com/lufthansa-lot-condor/
That deal fell through, but Lufthansa still didn't get to eliminate Condor as a competitor.
So it...
Lufthansa has wanted to take over LOT (LOT is already in Miles & More) for years, to expand the area of Central Europe where they have no competition from other full-service airlines.
They were annoyed when LOT tried to take over Condor (Lufthansa wanted it, again to remove competition) at the beginning of Covid: https://onemileatatime.com/lufthansa-lot-condor/
That deal fell through, but Lufthansa still didn't get to eliminate Condor as a competitor.
So it would hardly be surprising if Lufthansa is so unreasonable in such a negotiation that it doesn't happen.
And Lufthansa influence airports in Germany.
Germany and the USA are the two countries which trumpet free trade, but on home territory are often deeply protectionist and their governments allow businesses to become monopolies at the expense of consumers.
(France and China are even more protectionist, but don't pretend not to be)
Nobody is taking responsibility for the arrangements. If you see the statements you posted everyone points the finger at each other.
There was a similar incident in Japan on September 5 when the Cebu Pacific flight from MNL to FUK (5J922) ended up flying 11 hours to nowhere and returned to Manila. https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20230906/p2a/00m/0li/006000c#:~:
As a flight attendant living in Hannover, I have some friends working for AHS..the ground handling company responsible for most flights at HAJ:
The facts are:
HAJ is an airport which doesnt close at night and therefore there was of course ground personal available for unloading baggage, driving buses from remote stands or driving gate bridges at the time this flight arrived in HAJ.
More flights are landing in HAJ later than this LOT...
As a flight attendant living in Hannover, I have some friends working for AHS..the ground handling company responsible for most flights at HAJ:
The facts are:
HAJ is an airport which doesnt close at night and therefore there was of course ground personal available for unloading baggage, driving buses from remote stands or driving gate bridges at the time this flight arrived in HAJ.
More flights are landing in HAJ later than this LOT flight.
The pilot in charge is making his decisions always by receiving orders from his airline - in this case from the control center of LOT in WAW.
We have 2 big airport hotels with more or less direct access to the terminals..to accomodate 80 people is not a big deal - despite the room rates are currently very high due to a big trade fair in our town.
No buses available for ground transportation to DUS?
What a joke...LOT is not the first airline with diverted flights in HAJ.
This airport is well prepared...
LOT told the lie, that there were no ground personal available for driving buses or bridges??
So how get the 10 people with only hand luggage off the plane??
Did they jump ??
Flying back to WAW instead of flying to the nearest airport with LOT ground personal and contracts between LOT and the airport (FRA) was much more expensive for the airline..e.g.with all these following rebookings.
LOT just wanted the aircraft and the crew back to its hub in WAW for operating reasons instead of paying money for ground handling, hotel accomodation or hiring buses....
HER UWE:MAYBE IS GOOD IDEA HAJ TO WAW THEN WAW TO HAJ...
My experience with LOT on waw-Bom lafter 2 hour in air needed to return to Waw. After arrival we have been given sandwiches and water and in about an hour we boarded to a reolacement plane. From my side A+ excellent job. Not mentioning i get back 600€ which covered the ticket cost and as we have been delayed i could go straight to the hotel in Mumbai and not waiting 6 hrs for check in.
I'm really impressed with deep understanding of airline operations displayed by the commenters to this post. I now see that this was all really simple. Had LOT just allowed to get off the plane if they wished, everything would've worked out easy-peasy, and the airline would've saved a ton of money. LOT - Please fire your management and replace them with Sara Smith and Samo!
It is true that not so infrequently rigid management really can't understand how customers need only minimal assistance to do the best thing for themselves and the supplier.
Thank you, you're right.
Passengers ought to have taken an earlier flight on Lufthansa , or the train .
With a European country with a such a robust public transit system, I would be very upset about not being let off and just take the train. 2:35min train ride according to google
Whilst it might be difficult to procure buses for the long trek to Duesseldorf, surely it's easier to the the same to shuttle pax to Hannover railway station? There are trains to Duesseldorf past 10pm and even one at 0340hrs!
Ben, I fully agree to what you said.
I took this LO 407 flight dozen of times and DUS is one of the airports I am using quite frequently. The main problem seems indeed the curfew at DUS which is enforced in an incredibly strict manner. The area west of the airport DUS is quite a wealthy one and one of those places (Meerbusch) is said to have the most millionaires by annual income...
Ben, I fully agree to what you said.
I took this LO 407 flight dozen of times and DUS is one of the airports I am using quite frequently. The main problem seems indeed the curfew at DUS which is enforced in an incredibly strict manner. The area west of the airport DUS is quite a wealthy one and one of those places (Meerbusch) is said to have the most millionaires by annual income (!) out of 1,000 people all over Germany. Hence they can easily afford to engage attorneys in case their sleep is interrupted and they are not reluctant when it comes to legal actions.
The curfew starts at 23:00, however, "delayed landings" are approved until 23:30. The flight took off at HAJ at 22:58, hence, they couldn't make it until 23:00. And I have some doubts that this "delayed landing" exception applies to a flight from an alternative airport to the original destination as this is an exception.
I seriously don't understand why should it be a problem to let people disembark if they wish so. Surely if LOT can arrange refueling, they can also arrange someone to pull a few bags?
Forcing those pax to go back to Warsaw meant LOT had to cover hotel and a new flight for them. If they let people who wish so to voluntarily abandon their trip in Hannover, none of those costs would be incurred....
I seriously don't understand why should it be a problem to let people disembark if they wish so. Surely if LOT can arrange refueling, they can also arrange someone to pull a few bags?
Forcing those pax to go back to Warsaw meant LOT had to cover hotel and a new flight for them. If they let people who wish so to voluntarily abandon their trip in Hannover, none of those costs would be incurred.
Actually, even if they kicked everyone out (including those who didn't want to do so voluntarily), it should still be cheaper for LOT. The full flex DB fare from Hannover to Dusseldorf costs 66,50€ per person, so even if we add a taxi to the destination, it would still be much less than what LOT ended up paying.
Either way, forcing people to go back to Warsaw after they already landed so close to their destination is insane.
I agree. If they were able to arrange refueling, they could have arranged a gate and baggage claim. The airport wasn't closed at that hour. And seriously, the airline could have hired buses/coaches at that hour too.
Seems like we have a new troll... welcome Sara Smith!
Luftag and LOT do not like each other, so we can expect more in this story hidden behind ''Capitan's decision''. There is GREEN MADNES going in Europe and a regular passenger maybe not aware about tensions in the industry to reduce competitions and get to stone age in the industry. Michael O'Leary have some news about it; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtqalMqBll0
This pilot should, of course be held accountable for the unnecessary costs incurred by the passengers.
Poland is a country on the way up and they don't have much money. But if you choose to fly planes to more civilized places, you agree to abide by 1st world rules.
Capitan is EMPLOEE of company; if the operations ask him to fly back he must do so.
As I posted earlier, you’re an example of absolutely no understanding of airline ops. Airlines do not intentionally divert or delay for a reason. The captain isn’t liable for refunding anything.
I don’t understand what the passengers thought was going to happen if they deboarded and went into the terminal at Hannover. What counter did they expect to go to in order to get rebooked and receive hotel and meal vouchers? Who was supposed to unload their luggage from the plane?
Oh, Europeans are usually good to think a tiny bit themselves.
How can I explain this: uh, imagine you land at Space Mountain, but you want to go to FrozenWorld or whatever. You can quite easily make your way over there. You don't need to fly back to Wichita to go to FrozenWorld.
I hope this helps, ma'am.
You’re obviously American, hence the lack of comprehension. That’s not aimed at all Americans given the vast population and demographic, however the ones I deal with on a daily basis are the epitome of a stereotype.
What exactly don't you understand? They expected to get off in Hannover and make their way to Düsseldorf by other means (presumably a train) since flying wasn't an option. Taking those people back to Warsaw is completely insane since they were just a little over 100 km from their destination.
I've had this happen before - we landed in my hometown instead of the original arrival airport (some 60 km away). Me and couple of...
What exactly don't you understand? They expected to get off in Hannover and make their way to Düsseldorf by other means (presumably a train) since flying wasn't an option. Taking those people back to Warsaw is completely insane since they were just a little over 100 km from their destination.
I've had this happen before - we landed in my hometown instead of the original arrival airport (some 60 km away). Me and couple of other pax contacted the crew and explained we'd like to get off because we're actually closer to our destination than planned. We signed some form waiving our right to compensation and DoC, got our bags within half an hour and went on our way home.
Exactly - lack of imagination from LOT - many of the passengers would have indeed been happy to sign a waiver, and take their own responsibility for getting from Hanover to their final destination, so the cost to LOT of paying for the bags to be unloaded would be less than the cost of the hotels in Warsaw (unless the ground handling agent at Hanover was being really nasty and extortionate with LOT)
LOT...
Exactly - lack of imagination from LOT - many of the passengers would have indeed been happy to sign a waiver, and take their own responsibility for getting from Hanover to their final destination, so the cost to LOT of paying for the bags to be unloaded would be less than the cost of the hotels in Warsaw (unless the ground handling agent at Hanover was being really nasty and extortionate with LOT)
LOT is part of Star Alliance, although internecine disputes (like civil wars) can be worse than those with declared competitors, so this might be Lufthansa applying pressure.
Simply because most passengers are ignorant and believe flying is like driving a car down a short road and if that road is closed it is simple to 'take a short cut'. They happily use words like clueless and stingy yet it can still cost 1000s to divert, and know nothing about flow restrictions, curfews, weather, operating minima etc
Oh that's not how it works, but thanks for your input. I know it may feel like it if you live in Iowa Falls or whatever, but there's plenty options in 1st world countries to go a few 100 kilometers.
A kilometer is kind of like a mile, but not the same. Just think about that.
You don’t really make much sense. A kilometre isn’t a mile, it’s 0.62.
Yes, as I said:
>A kilometer is kind of like a mile, but not the same.
I know this can be difficult for you to understand, that's why I tried to explain it. As a European, we do try to be mindful of people with other measurement systems.
I tried to explain this to you in the appropriate context: it's not hard to get from Hannover to Düsseldorf. Some pax may have preferred to...
Yes, as I said:
>A kilometer is kind of like a mile, but not the same.
I know this can be difficult for you to understand, that's why I tried to explain it. As a European, we do try to be mindful of people with other measurement systems.
I tried to explain this to you in the appropriate context: it's not hard to get from Hannover to Düsseldorf. Some pax may have preferred to make the final few hundred kilometers themselves instead of flying back to Poland.
Again, don't let the word kilometer throw you off. It's kinda like a mile, except not the same. Just so you don't get confused again.
I wonder if we can see how many arrivals there were at DUS during this time frame?