Delta Air Lines is preparing to launch a new route that it was recently given permission to operate, and it’ll give Alaska Airlines some competition.
In this post:
Delta adds Seattle to Washington flights in March 2025
As of March 9, 2025, Delta will add a new daily, year-round flight between Seattle (SEA) and Washington National (DCA). The new flight will operate with the following schedule:
Seattle to Washington departing 7:23AM arriving 3:30PM
Washington to Seattle departing 4:40PM arriving 7:41PM
The 2,329-mile flight is blocked at 5hr7min eastbound and 6hr1min westbound. Delta intends to use an Airbus A321neo for the route, featuring 194 seats, including 20 first class seats.
Delta will be the second airline to operate this route, as Alaska currently flies in the market twice daily. Furthermore, Delta already flies between Seattle and Washington Dulles (IAD), so this will be Delta’s second flight between the Pacific Northwest and the Washington area.
Here’s how Delta President Glen Hauenstein describes this addition:
“Seattle is a key market for our customers, a crucial hub for Delta, and a premier west coast gateway. Delta commends the Department of Transportation for recognizing that additional service from DCA to Seattle will give consumers the much-needed competition and choice they deserve. We look forward to launching new, premium DCA service in March.”
Delta isn’t just launching new service. It’s launching premium service!
This is a newly granted beyond-perimeter flight
For some background on why this new route is significant, keep in mind that Washington National Airport has a perimeter rule, which has been around since 1966, when jets started flying to the airport. This rule generally prohibits airlines from operating nonstop routes to and from the airport that are longer than 1,250 statute miles.
What’s the logic for the perimeter rule? Well, this was initially intended to protect Washington Dulles Airport as the transcontinental and international gateway for the area. The concern at the time was that Dulles Airport couldn’t thrive if National Airport wasn’t limited in this way.
However, there are a limited number of exceptions allowed. Up until recently, up to 40 daily domestic flights (20 roundtrips) could exceed the limit of the perimeter rule. During the recent FAA reauthorization bill, an agreement was reached for that to be expanded by 25%, so that there can now be up to 50 daily flights (25 roundtrips).
The selection process for awarding those additional slots was quite competitive, given the demand among airlines for them. In the end, the following routes and airlines were selected:
- American from San Antonio (SAT)
- Alaska from San Diego (SAN)
- Delta from Seattle (SEA)
- Southwest from Las Vegas (LAS)
- United from San Francisco (SFO)
Bottom line
Delta is adding a new daily route between Seattle and Washington National, made possible by five new beyond-perimeter slots recently being awarded. Delta will go head-to-head against Alaska, and this also complements Delta’s existing flight between Seattle and Washington Dulles.
What do you make of Delta adding Seattle to Washington National flights?
When I was stationed in Washington, Crystal City was kind of interesting as there was a lot of disused office space and there were the city artist collectives staging art happenings in these vacant midcentury modern office buildings. I liked the Reagan airport then, but it's going to take a lot to convince me to come back since what happened to Crystal City and all of DC in 2018. Still, Seattle beats SLC, so this...
When I was stationed in Washington, Crystal City was kind of interesting as there was a lot of disused office space and there were the city artist collectives staging art happenings in these vacant midcentury modern office buildings. I liked the Reagan airport then, but it's going to take a lot to convince me to come back since what happened to Crystal City and all of DC in 2018. Still, Seattle beats SLC, so this is interesting enough to get me thinking about Delta again. Maybe really I should look at space-a to Western Washington/Oregon, Idaho and Wyoming.
This cements it, then. DELTA is the most premium airline in the world!
Has anyone here read "A Confederacy of Dunces?"
I think we have our own Ignatius J. Reilly in the comments section.
With apologies to the real Ignatius J. Reilly, of course.
I almost read that Dunns haha
I almost read that as Dunns hahahaha
I know Delta wanted the DCA slot, but wouldn't IAD have made more sense? You have a bunch of Sky Team airlines/Delta partners like Saudia, Air France, KLM, Korean and Virgin Atlantic are flying into IAD. Seems like a Delta flight to Seattle would have made a good connection option.
https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL508/history/20241220/0618Z/KSEA/KIAD
Delta already flies to Dulles and could make the route 10x daily tomorrow if they wanted to. No slots needed.
Delta likely would've wanted SEA-DCA regardless of Amazon, but a route like SEA-DCA not only captures the better loyalty traffic out of DC vs Dulles but also connects Amazon's super-preferred airline, Delta, from SEA to about one stop from the DCA metro stop, Amazon's HQ2 or whatever they call it.
https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL508/history/20241220/0618Z/KSEA/KIAD
Delta already flies to Dulles and could make the route 10x daily tomorrow if they wanted to. No slots needed.
Delta likely would've wanted SEA-DCA regardless of Amazon, but a route like SEA-DCA not only captures the better loyalty traffic out of DC vs Dulles but also connects Amazon's super-preferred airline, Delta, from SEA to about one stop from the DCA metro stop, Amazon's HQ2 or whatever they call it.
If only they already flew that route. :-) Its on an A220 so they obviously don’t see all that much demand. DCA will command a major price premium vis a vis IAD.
I can assure you that the A220 is the most comfortable flight of all of the flights that are offered from SEA to IAD
How so?
The A220 is a good plane but...
https://www.aerolopa.com/dl-223
https://www.aerolopa.com/as-739
Delta's seat pitch is inferior to Alaska in the actual premium cabin.
By 4"
And by 0.5" in Economy Plus
Same seat pitch in economy.
A window in the bathroom is fun, but I'll take legroom any day.
What's your criteria to assure everyone, Tim? Clearly, legroom doesn't matter to you. Is it the calm reassurance you get flying the company that fired you?
you clearly have not been in an A220 and you also, to no surprise, cannot get the basic facts straight.
the vast majority of passengers do not fly in premium cabins.
Standard economy pitch on the A220 is 31 inches for DL.
Standard economy pitch on the AS 737 MAX 8 is, wait, wait 31 inches.
the A220 for DL has an 18.6 inch wide seat, the widest coach seat in the US...
you clearly have not been in an A220 and you also, to no surprise, cannot get the basic facts straight.
the vast majority of passengers do not fly in premium cabins.
Standard economy pitch on the A220 is 31 inches for DL.
Standard economy pitch on the AS 737 MAX 8 is, wait, wait 31 inches.
the A220 for DL has an 18.6 inch wide seat, the widest coach seat in the US carrier fleet.
given that Boeing's seat width is 1.3 inches narrower than the A220 in coach, you get more space regardless of the coach seat.
not only can you not get the facts straight but you show your ignorance about the best airplane in US skies - but you will never admit it because DL has it while AA and UA passed even though B6 and others have it.
and the A220 is used to IAD.
The A321NEO will be used to DCA.
Seats on the A320 family are 18 inches wide, again wider than what you or anyone can do with 6 abreast in a Boeing narrowbody fuselage.
DL offers more passengers more space on every flight they operate from IAD and will from DCA.
and the same thing is true for many flights from SEA.
Proudly all Boeing means less space.
and Alaska offers precisely NO AVOD on any aircraft while it is standard with high speed WiFi on all of DL's Airbus and Boeing jets.
just walk away, Max, instead of coming back again and again trying to argue and only proving your ignorance.
with the notation that the 717 is really a McDonnell Douglas aircraft even though it wears a Boeing name.
Somebody was out drinking last night and came home to write a 13 paragraph summary of what I said.. that every Alaska aircraft has better seat pitch or better than Delta (since delta maintains 30" in most of their airbus planes, to include the A221) and that Delta is 4" lower in seat pitch vs Alaska in First.
But... to paraphrase you. You've got a fat ass and seat pitch doesn't matter as much...
Somebody was out drinking last night and came home to write a 13 paragraph summary of what I said.. that every Alaska aircraft has better seat pitch or better than Delta (since delta maintains 30" in most of their airbus planes, to include the A221) and that Delta is 4" lower in seat pitch vs Alaska in First.
But... to paraphrase you. You've got a fat ass and seat pitch doesn't matter as much as seat width to you.
We learn something new about you with every post, no doubt.
And yes. I have flown on many A220s, to include Delta ones. It's a nice plane, no doubt, but assuring people a Delta A223 WILL BE MORE COMFORTABLE when Alaska provides far more leg room...?
Try harder, Tim.
It's a good thing Delta doesn't fly other Airbus or Boeing products or your entire Delta shill would sound pretty stupid. Oh wait... they do and they still have either the same seat width or inferior leg room.
It really is amusing to hear you try to go after Alaska planes with more legroom than DL. The a223 could be the the comfiest ride in the sky. It's a great plane, but not in the Delta configuration.
Also weird how Alaska has much higher loyalty and high in flight reviews with AVOD...
but 13 paragraphs on a Friday night to respond with saying you've got a fat ass and don't care about legroom? you can do better, "Tim"
all you have to say is that you cherrypicked a data point to incessantly argue once again not only against anything and everything I write but fail to admit that DL offers a competitive if not better product.
AS has more legroom on just about all of its airplanes than its competitors in domestic first class. It isn't about DL or about aircraft type.
But AS has no AVOD and it has worse on-time than...
all you have to say is that you cherrypicked a data point to incessantly argue once again not only against anything and everything I write but fail to admit that DL offers a competitive if not better product.
AS has more legroom on just about all of its airplanes than its competitors in domestic first class. It isn't about DL or about aircraft type.
But AS has no AVOD and it has worse on-time than several competitors including DL and UA.
The A220 has the widest seat in the US carrier fleet. Arguing that even a half inch of legroom is superior to an inch and a quarter of extra width is not only biasedly dumb but is mathematically false.
and DL's 223s have fewer seats than most airlines that operate the type.
You and only you would spend hours digging up data to argue against a statement that is accurate.
and, as usual, you are the one that fling personal insults because you can't win the debate based on facts.
and since the A220 won't fly DCA-SEA but the A321 does, you still miss the point that the A321 has wider seats and the same or better pitch for the vast majority of passengers - and has AVOD and high speed WiFi as well.
but, because of your incessant need to argue which means you get most of the facts wrong and you cherrypick the rest, this will go on and you will look like the minimal brain-cell individual that you are, even as you think of yourself as MAX anything of value.
lol. This reply is too stupid and argumentative to even bother replying to you. Be less of a loser.
I'll leave it at your quote: "AS has more legroom on just about all of its airplanes than its competitors in domestic first class. It isn't about DL or about aircraft type." Alaska also has more legroom standard in economy than DL and just so happens to have the same legroom in economy as the...
lol. This reply is too stupid and argumentative to even bother replying to you. Be less of a loser.
I'll leave it at your quote: "AS has more legroom on just about all of its airplanes than its competitors in domestic first class. It isn't about DL or about aircraft type." Alaska also has more legroom standard in economy than DL and just so happens to have the same legroom in economy as the DL A223.
And yes. DL has fewer seats than some on the A220 because many operators are in an all economy layout.
Yep. Alaska is the most comfortable ride in the sky.
Be less of a loser, Tim. And go ahead and give up when you're proven wrong so easily.
9 paragraphs just to come up with really stupid insults. 13 last night.
You do make me laugh, Tim.
I spent no time looking up Alaska's seat pitch. It's pretty widely known that AS has better comfort in the sky.
Try to be less of a loser.
It is mathematically false that AS has the most comfortable ride in the sky if the metrics of seat space have anything to do with it.
DL has the same seat pitch for the majority of seats on the plane as AS but DL's aircraft consistently have more width because that is what Airbus offers.
It is false - AKA a lie - to state that AS is more comfortable based on the...
It is mathematically false that AS has the most comfortable ride in the sky if the metrics of seat space have anything to do with it.
DL has the same seat pitch for the majority of seats on the plane as AS but DL's aircraft consistently have more width because that is what Airbus offers.
It is false - AKA a lie - to state that AS is more comfortable based on the seat space arguments you make.
the only loser is YOU and YOU are obsessed with what I write so have to jump into EVERY F''ing conversation to argue, get the basic facts wrong, and then OVER AND OVER AND OVER again resort to personal attacks because you can't win the debate - which gets back to the root cause of your incessant need to argue against me.
YOU are the loser, YOU are the one that is incapable of admitting that someone else besides you understands the industry.
It is factual to say that Alaska has more leg room but good for your fat ass that you seem to value that more than legroom.
You can cut your usual outraged antics. It's a company that fired you and laughs at you today, not your mother I'm talking about.
The facts are that Alaska's 737 offers more legroom vs most Delta planes and offers the same in economy vs the A223 (more vs...
It is factual to say that Alaska has more leg room but good for your fat ass that you seem to value that more than legroom.
You can cut your usual outraged antics. It's a company that fired you and laughs at you today, not your mother I'm talking about.
The facts are that Alaska's 737 offers more legroom vs most Delta planes and offers the same in economy vs the A223 (more vs the DL A221) but is FAR more comfortable in first class where Delta standard is 37" pitch.
Sorry pal. You're welcome to say whatever you want, and you do. But you can't argue with facts on legroom.
But if you want to hang your hat on seat width, you should probably talk to Delta about their hundreds of 737s currently flying or their order for 100 MAX10s before you start on your weird airbus vs Boeing nonsense.
Get a grip and reality. You argue anything and everything no matter how wrong or how stupid you sound.
Int terms of "admitting", how about you admit that Tim Dunn is just another of your fake usernames you've employed over the years.
You're the one fired by Delta and banned by other websites and you even describe your own writing as being that of an internet troll.
Perhaps you should grab a mirror instead of attacking others that correct you based on facts. If you make a claim that DL A223 is absolutely the most comfortable ride between IAD-SEA, you're just wrong. Those planes have nice AVOD but Alaska has a great high speed wifi on every plane (not something Delta can say since many of their domestic birds don't have wifi) and great inflight wifi.
But, you can't objectively say DL A223s are the most comfortable when the Alaska competitor has more legroom on the same route.
You really are insufferable and weird. lol. Don't you have any life whatsoever?
You got schooled on this one, Tim. Time to wrap it up and walk away.
Max is right.
no, Max is not right and the fact that you think he is shows few gray cells you have OR that you are so gullible that you can be persuaded to believe something DESPITE the facts.
MAX's statement that
"It's pretty widely known that AS has better comfort in the sky."
is an unsubstantiated lie and it is as true about IAD-SEA as it is about AS' entire fleet.
Max tries to justify his...
no, Max is not right and the fact that you think he is shows few gray cells you have OR that you are so gullible that you can be persuaded to believe something DESPITE the facts.
MAX's statement that
"It's pretty widely known that AS has better comfort in the sky."
is an unsubstantiated lie and it is as true about IAD-SEA as it is about AS' entire fleet.
Max tries to justify his argument by using seat pitch but ignores seat width - because if he did, it would be clear that his argument is flawed.
AS has more seat pitch IN FIRST CLASS and only in first class not just compared to DL but about every other market - which means it would be true against UA in SFO and every other competitive market.
But AS does not have even a pitch advantage compared to premium economy and not compared to DL economy.
And the A220 and every Airbus narrowbody has more seat width than anything Boeing produces in coach because Airbus and Boeing produced wider aircraft for the number of seats intended.
If Max wants to argue that AS is his personal preference or rephrases his statement to talk about first class, then I will be happy to let him have the final word - but I don't stop talking when people make categorically false statements whether you or anyone else thinks he or whoever makes them wins.
And it is noteworthy that I was happy to let Max leave his first reply to this thread unanswered because it is false. Max is capable of making correct statements.
but he is hellbent on jumping into discussions and invariably gets the facts wrong and then resorts to name-calling when he is proven wrong based on facts.
I don't yield the floor to stupidity or bias regardless of who says it.
I am more than happy to let other people express their opinions and to state verifiable facts.
13 paragraphs to say nothing to me except that you recognize you were bested.
"I don't yield the floor to stupidity or bias regardless of who says it."
You don't yield the floor to stupidity or bias, you're right. You are the stupidity and bias.
I hope the rest of your weekend is better than this failure on your part, Tim.
You're getting pretty sad ;)
i may need to start charging rent to live in your head. I'm not even rent-free in your at this point. I basically own your anger and replies now. How much of your day do you spend thinking about what stupid thing to say back to me and what new sad insult to write?
JK. I'm not you and don't say that kind of stupid nonsense like you, Tim. Go get a life.
continuing to reply to a public post has nothing to do with living free for you or for me.
You can own whatever you want but you, as usual, turn to personal attacks because your statements which are based on fact, have been shown to be completely false. In other words, a lie.
Instead of simply walking away or rephrasing your statement into something that is factually correct - such as a comparison of AS'...
continuing to reply to a public post has nothing to do with living free for you or for me.
You can own whatever you want but you, as usual, turn to personal attacks because your statements which are based on fact, have been shown to be completely false. In other words, a lie.
Instead of simply walking away or rephrasing your statement into something that is factually correct - such as a comparison of AS' FC space to AA, DL and UA - you resort to personal attacks - because you are a small little person that needs to prove your self worth by injecting yourself into conversations about which you are completely wrong and are unable to admit it
Oh Tim... you're truly too easy to rile up and too dumb to realize when you're wrong.
Sorry bud. The comfiest ride in the sky on SEA-IAD is on an Alaska 739.
Economy seats are equal but the AS 739 has more room in first class.
But again. Your own delta doesn't seem to see any advantage to airbus vs boeing seat width explaining why they have MANY Boeing 737s and 100...
Oh Tim... you're truly too easy to rile up and too dumb to realize when you're wrong.
Sorry bud. The comfiest ride in the sky on SEA-IAD is on an Alaska 739.
Economy seats are equal but the AS 739 has more room in first class.
But again. Your own delta doesn't seem to see any advantage to airbus vs boeing seat width explaining why they have MANY Boeing 737s and 100 on order.
But... You're right. I don't mind reminding others of your past. You're the one who keeps coming on to various forums trying to deny it and achieve credibility that doesn't exist in Delta's mind or other websites where you're banned.
Move along, son.
And the absolute irony of you talking about personal attacks when all you do is try to use my screen name to belittle what I say.
It's probably the most amateurish and childish thing you do but... it is you.
Stop being a loser.
Some of us realize these are public companies and not worth making a fool out of yourself over.
The only loser is someone that makes categorically false statements and is unable to admit they are wrong.
Alaska can’t have the most comfortable ride if 90% of the seats have less room.
Stick to opinions or makes factually verifiable statements that are true.
And get over your incessant need to inject yourself in discussions that are over your head
Oh Tim. It's cute that you desperately crave the last word and are too stupid to admit when you're wrong.
No one except your fat ass thinks seat width matters as much as seat pitch. Not even Delta with their hundreds of 737s currently or on order.
Tim,
Max is right. And you don't need to inject yourself into discussions when you're clearly wrong. You just make yourself seem ignorant and make Delta look worse to everyone else by the incessant need to be right when you are not.
no, Max, is not right and neither are you.
If max wants to state his opinion, he is free to do so.
He is not free to cite ONE verifiable statistic of seat comfort and ignore another in order to come up with a conclusion which is clearly wrong.
just like Jane said, no one cares about your opinion.
"I can assure you that the A220 is the most comfortable flight of all of the flights that are offered from SEA to IAD"
Just to remind you of your absolute statement, Timmy.
No. The DL A220 is not the most comfortable flight on IAD-SEA. You certainly can't assure that because it isn't true no matter how desperately you find irrelevant info. Some people may prefer wider seats with their fat asses, like you. But...
"I can assure you that the A220 is the most comfortable flight of all of the flights that are offered from SEA to IAD"
Just to remind you of your absolute statement, Timmy.
No. The DL A220 is not the most comfortable flight on IAD-SEA. You certainly can't assure that because it isn't true no matter how desperately you find irrelevant info. Some people may prefer wider seats with their fat asses, like you. But your own Delta happily buys and orders 737s with the knowledge that none of their customers (except a tragic mega fan that they fired) cares about seat width.
In fact, I recall Ed Bastian talking about a "Minimum seat pitch in economy of 31"", A seat pitch that doesn't exist on most of his 30" economy planes, but he certainly doesnt' talk about seat width when trying to sell Delta as premium. It's just you, Tim.
But.. way to wasted your saturday replying to me all day. How tragic are you?
YOU are the one that made an absolute statement.
The A220 in DL's configuration has more space for more passengers than any aircraft in AS' fleet or any other US carrier narrowbody for that matter.
Pitch and seat width are BOTH part of what create space.
Just because AS has more pitch for +/- a dozen passengers does not offset the less space that the majority of passengers experience.
We all know that you are...
YOU are the one that made an absolute statement.
The A220 in DL's configuration has more space for more passengers than any aircraft in AS' fleet or any other US carrier narrowbody for that matter.
Pitch and seat width are BOTH part of what create space.
Just because AS has more pitch for +/- a dozen passengers does not offset the less space that the majority of passengers experience.
We all know that you are incapable of admitting that you made an incorrect statement but all you have to do is state that "AS offers more space in domestic first class COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER US CARRIER" and you would be write.
But you clearly will double down on insulting other people than admit your statement is incorrect.
whatever, loser.
You're an idiot. Your own airline measures comfort via seat pitch per their CEO.
You're just a sad wacko that can't read and loves to argue over truly nothing.
Learn to admit when you F'd up and when you're wrong. It'll help you in life.
This is the dumbest argument ever started after an absolute statement by you that was factually wrong.
Give it up, loser.
every airline measures seat pitch and width.
Feel free to look at any aircraft page on delta.com and it will be apparent that BOTH statistics are present.
and yet your own favorite airline never talks about it because of all their 737s
Good luck, loser
Time for you to admit Delta is a far 2nd place to AS on SEA-IAD comfort ;)
Seems like a huge miss not to offer Delta One. Doesn't Delta offer Delta One between LAX and DCA?
I think you're right about D1 on LAX-DCA but, I don't think Delta has any domestic routes with D1 out of SEA at the moment.
JFK, BOS, and MIA are all run on a delta NEO from Miami right now
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta move to a NEO on lax-dca soon anyway.
***
"JFK, BOS, and MIA are all run on a delta NEO from Seattle right now"
That's something i'm really curious about. I assumed LAX - DCA would be the first route to get a new Transcon configured A321NEO when they arrive, but maybe not? The route is a roundtrip, so it would make sense to be the first, it would just take one aircraft.
AA doesn't have flatbeds on the route and they charge a lot less for FC, so maybe Delta will downgrade to match, or maybe they will try to offer a premium product ;)
No need to offer Delta One as there is no competing premium experience from SEA to DC Area airports.... at least directly, obviously you can get Mint indirectly via BOS/JFK but that's a hassle.
Delta gets a revenue premium compared to AA on LAX-DCA. They will use a lie flat aircraft if people will buy it. But since you lose coach seats in the process, the lie flat seats have to sell
Not tim making up data again
Delta's schedule is similar but slightly worse.
Just as good as LAX-PEK. No, better!
Frankly, DL’s premium DCA-SEA route is the most impressive route announcement of the decade.
Is anyone else NOT a fan of these new Delta A321 neos? I have been on a number of flights in them in F... I think he seats are unconfortable, and they are awkward to get in and out of (especially the window seats). They are taking over any longish domestic non-Delta One flight. I guess I will have to get used to them, but I am disappointed any time they are added to a route I fly...
Hmm... personally I would take a slightly uncomfortable 321 over a non-renovated 737* any day... but I guess if you're directly comparing the 321 to a nice, recently renovated 737 I might agree.
*if curious, Ben did a fun review of one of these a few months back, and sadly they are commonplace in the DL fleet.
supposedly, the seat cushions are being changed.
More importantly for the Doubt family is that, as part of this same process, United was awarded a second SFO-DCA RT per day.
Looking forward to another choice of time!
I presume DL gets a mention because they loaded their schedule (and issued a press release) while other carriers have yet to do so.
there are 5 new outside of perimeter flights coming to DCA and the real story is that DL succeeded at getting those flights added given that DL started the campaign, asked for more flights to be added originally, and UA objected the most to the added flights because it weakens the...
I presume DL gets a mention because they loaded their schedule (and issued a press release) while other carriers have yet to do so.
there are 5 new outside of perimeter flights coming to DCA and the real story is that DL succeeded at getting those flights added given that DL started the campaign, asked for more flights to be added originally, and UA objected the most to the added flights because it weakens the overall value of DCA which is still the preferred domestic airport for DC.
Unlike LGA which has a pretty hard perimeter which only does not apply on Saturdays, Congress has repeatedly allowed exemptions to the DCA perimeter so DCA is becoming more and more desirable for longhaul domestic flights.
SAN and SAT are the winners as far as cities with their first outside perimeter flights while UA doubles down on SFO and battled back operational objections to its proposal.
AA and AS increased their lead as the two largest outside perimeter airlines at DCA even though they do codeshare on flights touching DCA.
DL remains the 2nd largest airline at DCA in terms of flights and slots and now has a single daily flight to each of its western hubs - SLC, LAX and SEA.
B6 and NK are the losers and the awards strengthen the stranglehold the big 4 have on traffic and AS' ability to play politics as good as the big 4.
UA will keep growing IAD but more of the local market will be competitive at DCA even as northern VA keeps growing.
ATC and noise advocates that thought that DCA could handle no more traffic lost.
on a day when DC struggles to do its job, carving up new routes at DCA has worked as DL wanted.
You really should sit down one day and evaluate your life. When you wake up to write 10 paragraphs trying to find out "what Ben left out that would've made Delta look amazing", it truly just makes your life so sad
Also, it's just wrong. What delta wanted was shot down. It was only when other airlines ex-United got involved that these new slots went anywhere.
No one said that Ben is wrong. and he is big enough to stand up for himself if he disagrees with what I write.
DL asked for a far bigger pot than was ultimately issued but DL got just one of the 5 new flights.
DL's goal was clearly not to enrich itself at the expense of everyone else but to strengthen DCA where it is the 2nd largest carrier and in the process weaken...
No one said that Ben is wrong. and he is big enough to stand up for himself if he disagrees with what I write.
DL asked for a far bigger pot than was ultimately issued but DL got just one of the 5 new flights.
DL's goal was clearly not to enrich itself at the expense of everyone else but to strengthen DCA where it is the 2nd largest carrier and in the process weaken AA's hold over DCA and UA's hold over IAD for longhaul traffic from the DC area.
I got it right and you can't stand that I can take 2 minutes of time to distill the full essence of what happened and show that DL is strategically in the driver's seat for the US airline industry.
"DL's goal was clearly not to enrich itself at the expense of everyone else but to strengthen DCA where it is the 2nd largest carrier and in the process weaken AA's hold over DCA and UA's hold over IAD for longhaul traffic from the DC area."
Seriously? You can't honestly believe this lol
You say it wasn't Delta's goal to enrich at the expense of others then say they did that exactly? Your mind is...
"DL's goal was clearly not to enrich itself at the expense of everyone else but to strengthen DCA where it is the 2nd largest carrier and in the process weaken AA's hold over DCA and UA's hold over IAD for longhaul traffic from the DC area."
Seriously? You can't honestly believe this lol
You say it wasn't Delta's goal to enrich at the expense of others then say they did that exactly? Your mind is a weird place.
"I got it right and you can't stand that I can take 2 minutes of time to distill the full essence of what happened and show that DL is strategically in the driver's seat for the US airline industry."
lol. Ok, Tim. whatever helps you get through the holidays with no family.
Your alternate reality is something else and it truly is just an alternate reality.
But enjoy being alone, per usual.
well, yes, Max, DL strengthened DCA and was happy to allow other carriers get some of the prizes in order to accomplish DL's purposes. DL got 20% of the total pie and yet struggle to understand that DL achieved its goal of strengthening its position as #2 while weakening AA's position as #1 (AA also only got 20% of the new pieces) while UA also got 20% but the combined 5 new flights at DCA...
well, yes, Max, DL strengthened DCA and was happy to allow other carriers get some of the prizes in order to accomplish DL's purposes. DL got 20% of the total pie and yet struggle to understand that DL achieved its goal of strengthening its position as #2 while weakening AA's position as #1 (AA also only got 20% of the new pieces) while UA also got 20% but the combined 5 new flights at DCA are all from markets which UA flies at IAD, in many cases as a monopoly.
Yes, Max, DL achieved its goal on a smaller scale than it originally asked for - but you clearly can't understand that DL did achieve its goal and that very few "asks" in life turn out to be as large in reality - but that still doesn't mean the principle wasn't achieved.
As usual, because you can't admit that DL was right and I can see the big picture, you will argue incessantly and try to belittle me for noting what you and most others can't see and, even if you can see it, will never admit it.
your mind is a weird place.
AA got one of the new nonstops out of DCA and kept their absolute lead over DL in DCA, not that DL is a legitimate competitor to AA in DCA anyway? Are you high?
AA got one, Oneworld got 40% of the new slot enhancing AA's place in SAN and SAT. Alaska is obviously a separate company, but you'd have to be truly living in a cellar (aka....
your mind is a weird place.
AA got one of the new nonstops out of DCA and kept their absolute lead over DL in DCA, not that DL is a legitimate competitor to AA in DCA anyway? Are you high?
AA got one, Oneworld got 40% of the new slot enhancing AA's place in SAN and SAT. Alaska is obviously a separate company, but you'd have to be truly living in a cellar (aka. your mom's basement) to think AA isn't helped by new OneWorld nonstops into DCA as well as in SAN where their customers can take Alaska and have their AA loyalty when doing so.
Your attempts to talk about Delta's lobbying failure on these DCA slots is strange, at best, ignorant more likely. Delta did NOT get what they wanted. They got one new DCA slot pair once they got other airlines, Ex-United, on board. But sure, Delta gets credit for asking for something, failing at that, then having the other airlines get the incremental DCA slots across the line.
Why is everything so strangely black & white with you? It only makes you look like a child and reinforces why Delta fired you and why you've been banned on so many sites.
Get a grip.
you repeat the exact same facts I said and think my mind is in a weird place? I specifically said that AA is the largest at DCA, got 20% of the flights and so did UA which is the largest at IAD.
AA and AS are in the same alliance but there is no JV. They are competitors. What AA has is AA's and what AS has is AS's.
You and others desperately want...
you repeat the exact same facts I said and think my mind is in a weird place? I specifically said that AA is the largest at DCA, got 20% of the flights and so did UA which is the largest at IAD.
AA and AS are in the same alliance but there is no JV. They are competitors. What AA has is AA's and what AS has is AS's.
You and others desperately want to conflate facts because you can't accept reality as it actually exists.
The only thing weird is the high percentage of your aviation social media posts that are in response to something I write.
You are hellbent on trying to prove me wrong and can't stand to admit that I see reality.
there are multiple articles about the lobbying that DL did to get these new flights added. The fact that you either don't know about it or forget it in the fog of your incessant need to argue and belittle says far more about you than me.
you seem unable to read. I said Delta tried to do something with DCA slots via lobbying and failed. I then reminded you they only got somewhere with their idea when other airlines helped them.
Per everything else you wrote... You're such an internet troll and even describe your own writings as such.
You try to make some weird case that DL one-upped AA in DCA (as though that even matters...) and forget...
you seem unable to read. I said Delta tried to do something with DCA slots via lobbying and failed. I then reminded you they only got somewhere with their idea when other airlines helped them.
Per everything else you wrote... You're such an internet troll and even describe your own writings as such.
You try to make some weird case that DL one-upped AA in DCA (as though that even matters...) and forget that AA now has two new unserved DCA markets feeding their hub there.
Whatever else it is that you're trying to say in your confused state of mind. I really could care less. You're mentally ill.
Getting others to agree to your ideas is the essence of thought leadership. Delta achieved that by getting Congress to add more beyond perimeter flights that benefit five different airlines
AA and UA!s capacity share of beyond perimeter flights from WAS is lower because of these awards. DL achieved its purpose and you can’t stand to admit that or that I can see the big picture that you want to pretend doesn’t exist
"Getting others to agree to your ideas is the essence of thought leadership. Delta achieved that by getting Congress to add more beyond perimeter flights that benefit five different airlines"
are you Gary Leff now? lol. How funny that you troll in the comment sections then try to attach their website label to yourself or Delta when Delta actually failed at their own DCA goals and ended up giving OneWorld an even bigger share...
"Getting others to agree to your ideas is the essence of thought leadership. Delta achieved that by getting Congress to add more beyond perimeter flights that benefit five different airlines"
are you Gary Leff now? lol. How funny that you troll in the comment sections then try to attach their website label to yourself or Delta when Delta actually failed at their own DCA goals and ended up giving OneWorld an even bigger share of the DCA pie. You think AA is mad about AS getting SAN nonstop?
Delta's DCA lobbying went nowhere until AA got Ted Cruz involved (for better or worse).
you're so weird and illogical. You create an outcome in your mind and then desperately try to back it up off some nonsensical other tidbit.
but you're obviously welcome to believe that Delta has scored some kind of coup here. Doesn't make it real and it's definitely in your normal mode to come up with really stupid ways of trying to say "Delta rocks" absent fact.
But ok... the AA DCA hub just added SAN and SAT as new routes to sell to corporate partners. Of course AA/AS aren't in a JV but your own statement betray how ignorant you are of the west coast alliance and the strong benefits it brings to both parties, absent a JV/Acquisition.
OneWorld is even stronger than ever before out of DCA (I guess, per you, thanks to daddy delta which helped their competitors more than themselves).
You live in a strange little illogical world.
But again. No surprise to remind others you were fired by Delta, banned by multiple websites for good or for a period. You're unique, but just about any outside third party observer has deemed you an idiot.
as usual, I have won the debate when you resort to personal attacks because you can't admit that I am right based on the facts of the discussion.
Gary did not trademark the term "thought leadership" and nobody has.
Delta initiated the push to gain more outside perimeter slots at DCA and was more than willing to take a minority of those slots. DL succeeded at pushing that through despite objections heavily led by UA....
as usual, I have won the debate when you resort to personal attacks because you can't admit that I am right based on the facts of the discussion.
Gary did not trademark the term "thought leadership" and nobody has.
Delta initiated the push to gain more outside perimeter slots at DCA and was more than willing to take a minority of those slots. DL succeeded at pushing that through despite objections heavily led by UA. Even though they are the largest at their respective airports, AA and UA's longhaul domestic share at DCA and WAS as a whole, respectively, is weaker as a result.
Feel free to argue all day long - and I am sure you will - but that is what happened.
DL, once again, demonstrates that it is the strategic thought leader in the industry.
It's a personal attack to remind others of your credibility issues?
Not to mention the lunacy of defending an airline, ad nauseam, that fired you. Or to mention you call your own writings on blogs trollish? Or that other websites have banned you, your writing style, and numerous fake names?
My friend, that is not a personal attack. It's choosing to ignore your ridiculous logic and nonsensical reasoning that you keep going with...
It's a personal attack to remind others of your credibility issues?
Not to mention the lunacy of defending an airline, ad nauseam, that fired you. Or to mention you call your own writings on blogs trollish? Or that other websites have banned you, your writing style, and numerous fake names?
My friend, that is not a personal attack. It's choosing to ignore your ridiculous logic and nonsensical reasoning that you keep going with on a continuous infinity loop regardless of how many times you're proven VERY wrong.
It's much easier to destroy your credibility based on your own sad history than waste time using facts as I've done MANY times.
But Again. Delta failed to get what they wanted. AA and other airlines (not UA) are what pushed the slots forward, Delta just tried something else that failed.
Go back to your sad little hole, Troll. When you describe your own writing as being that of an internet troll, there's very little use in responding to the stupid nonsense you say.
Yes. I was right.
You lie and attack because you can’t win the debate.
Delta weakened American and United’s hold on DC
you're so delusional it's honestly funny.
But Merry Christmas or Happy Hannukah, Tim.
Let's hope your 2025 is a little less deluded.
DL wanted so much more than what they got. AA and UA helped make sure DL didn’t get what they wanted.
DL is still a small player in the DC market, compared to AA and UA.
UA is on its way to eight banks in IAD, with the new fifth bank already slated to begin in a few months. A new concourse is already underway.
UA will have a huge presence in...
DL wanted so much more than what they got. AA and UA helped make sure DL didn’t get what they wanted.
DL is still a small player in the DC market, compared to AA and UA.
UA is on its way to eight banks in IAD, with the new fifth bank already slated to begin in a few months. A new concourse is already underway.
UA will have a huge presence in the DC area with a major hub in one of the wealthiest areas of the country. This is in addition to the most powerful northeast hub at EWR, just up the road.
DL tried to change the power dynamic and failed.
After this comment, I will not engage in the “argument loop”, as Brett Snyder (aka Cranky Flier) calls it. To anyone with self-awareness, having Brett, one of the most respected aviation bloggers, refuse to engage with you would be cause for introspection and alarm. Tim sees mockery and ostracism as badges of honor.
Weakens the overall value of DCA how? And why would UA care about that result? UA tried to block the additions to prop up their 1960s terminal at IAD.
AA controls a lower percentage of DCA flights and AA and UA control a lower percentage of longhaul flights from WAS after 5 new DCA slot exemption flights were added.
I'm not sure why it is so hard to understand that AA and UA's position in the DC market was weakened while DL and WN which are both unrelated to DC and have limited exemption slots are the biggest winners.
Mark,
you continue to...
AA controls a lower percentage of DCA flights and AA and UA control a lower percentage of longhaul flights from WAS after 5 new DCA slot exemption flights were added.
I'm not sure why it is so hard to understand that AA and UA's position in the DC market was weakened while DL and WN which are both unrelated to DC and have limited exemption slots are the biggest winners.
Mark,
you continue to fixate with your dream of UA's domination. IAD is 57% regional jet. Good for UA for creating another hub of predominantly RJs at IAD.
and for all your fixating, you can't admit that DL's hub profile of BOS, LGA, JFK and ATL is far larger than anything UA or anyone else has on the east coast.
DL carries far more traffic through its 3 east coast hubs than UA ever will.
spare us the incessant touting of UA's prowess when it is clear that you are trying desperately to prop up your own wounded self-ego.
DL rules the east coast. UA rules the west coast. The two are thorns at best in each other's sides but to somehow think that UA is in any way dominant on the east coast is a pipe dream solely in your own mind.
Delta never misses an opportunity to scream “premium” when they aren’t
Delta neo first class seat pitch: 37”
Alaska max8 or max9 first class seat pitch: 41”
But maybe delta will add an extra bag of nuts to the inflight service or, more likely, just say premium a lot.
Why anyone would ever choose delta over Alaska in Seattle just shocks me
i've always thought the neo seat pitch was a bit tight. With that full shell they really crowd your space when the person in front reclines. I've almost lost a laptop screen or two from people throwing their seat back as hard and fast as they can without any warning.
It's not shocking at all if you live in SEA. The two headed monster has been great for SEA flyers due to the lower fares/competition. Both are solid choices quality wise. It's also a small coup to fly on the DL A220, which is quite, comfortable & has no middle seats.
‘Delta isn’t just launching new service. It’s launching premium service!’
What a quote from Ben. Now, we may know why DL was awarded this route haha. In order for more premium service and only DL knows how, haha!!! (Joking around). Alaska is going to feel the heat from DL with its premium ‘premium’. Even its premium is beyond premium. Someone here will say something like how there will be rejoice among the flyers that they...
‘Delta isn’t just launching new service. It’s launching premium service!’
What a quote from Ben. Now, we may know why DL was awarded this route haha. In order for more premium service and only DL knows how, haha!!! (Joking around). Alaska is going to feel the heat from DL with its premium ‘premium’. Even its premium is beyond premium. Someone here will say something like how there will be rejoice among the flyers that they know have the honor of flying on a premium airline with premium service and premium food and beverages between Seattle and the nation’s capital:)
I wouldn't be surprised if IAD-SEA was "coincidentally" cut on March 10 - they struggle to fill a CS3, even at fares that make it worth trudging out to Dulles.
I wouldn't call it trudging any more (unlike in the past).
For years, when travelling to DC for work (from Hawai'i and then from home in Australia) I would always make a point of booking flights into National. Inconvenience en route was preferable to ground transport from Dulles. Now that the Metro goes to Dulles, I still prefer National, but if the best flight is to or from Dulles, so be it.
But I'm not the sort of person who would rather die than fly into EWR.
Yeah, schlepping to IAD isn't that bad anymore. I live in DC proper and it took me 75 mins to get to IAD on the Metro as opposed to 20 when going to DCA. But hey, I was able to enjoy a book on my kindle during the ride...
Delta to SEA certainly will open opportunities to explore SEA as a gateway when considering travel to Asia.
no it wont. the DCA-SEA flights on Delta do not connect to/ from Delta's Asian flights at SEA.
SEA to IAD is not getting cut, they even have multiple daily frequencies. Delta gets comparable fares to all competitors on this route.
I think the multiple frequencies is seasonal... right now I see IAD-SEA is daily on DL, vs 2 frequencies on UA and 3 on AS (plus 2 AS DCA-SEA flights). So I wouldn't be surprised if the current frequency gets shifted/upgauged to DCA and IAD is seasonal unless more demand materializes
Dulles is... well... Dulles. But Delta is not getting comparable fares on IAD-SEA. United has a large hub at Dulles while Alaska is more than double the size of Delta in Seattle.
There are routes out of SEA where Delta has an advantage or comparable fares but DCA and IAD is not one off those cities.
We don't need to make up lies simply because it's fun to dunk on Delta and therefore by extension Tim. This is one of those cases where Delta is doing just fine.
The data shows that Delta's LFs are consistently high on this route. They do operate less overall seats compared to UA and AS year-round, but they have no trouble filling up the seats with high 80s to 90%.
Second, yes, Delta does get...
We don't need to make up lies simply because it's fun to dunk on Delta and therefore by extension Tim. This is one of those cases where Delta is doing just fine.
The data shows that Delta's LFs are consistently high on this route. They do operate less overall seats compared to UA and AS year-round, but they have no trouble filling up the seats with high 80s to 90%.
Second, yes, Delta does get comparable fares on this route. I didn't say they got better fares or a premium.