Competition in Seattle is continuing to heat up, as Alaska Airlines and Delta Air Lines battle it out on long haul routes…
In this post:
Delta adding two new Europe routes from Seattle
Delta has announced that it plans to add two new summer seasonal long haul routes from Seattle (SEA) as of the summer 2026 season:
- Between May 6 and October 23, 2025, Delta will fly 4x weekly to Rome (FCO)
- Between May 7 and October 22, 2025, Delta will fly 3x weekly to Barcelona (BCN)
The routes will cover 5,688 miles and 5,439 miles, respectively. The schedules for the routes haven’t yet been revealed, but I’ll be sure to provide an update once we learn more. This announcement comes at the same time as news of the new Delta One Lounge Seattle.
Both routes will be operated by Airbus A330-900neos, featuring 281 seats, including 29 business class (Delta One) seats, 28 premium economy (Premium Select) seats, 56 extra legroom economy (Comfort+) seats, and 168 economy (Main Cabin) seats.
These new routes will complement Delta’s existing European routes out of Seattle, including to Amsterdam (AMS), London (LHR), and Paris (CDG), all of which are year-round.
Alaska & Delta are going head-to-head in Seattle
It’s no secret why Delta is suddenly launching new long haul routes in Seattle. While Delta has steadily been growing its presence in Seattle for roughly a decade now, the competitive dynamics have changed.
With Alaska having acquired Hawaiian, Alaska is now launching long haul routes out of Seattle, with the goal of having a dozen long haul routes by 2030. Tokyo Narita (NRT) service launched in May 2025, Seoul Incheon (ICN) service will launch in September 2025, and Rome (FCO) service will launch in May 2026.
So I think it’s pretty obvious why Delta would now add flights from Seattle to Rome, and to Barcelona, one of the other unserved markets out of Seattle that’s most in demand.
It’s anyone’s guess how the “battle in Seattle” plays out. Is there room for both airlines to thrive with long haul service from the airport? Or will one airline eventually have to retreat?
Delta is of course one of the world’s most profitable airlines (no longer the most profitable — that title now belongs to Emirates, at least officially), and routes planners at the airline obviously know what they’re doing. The airline has long haul joint ventures, and has lots of experience with making money on long haul flying.
At the same time, Alaska has the most loyal following in Seattle, a larger regional connecting network in the Pacific Northwest, and a better cost structure. Furthermore, I imagine Alaska is more committed to making Seattle long haul service work, given that Seattle is the carrier’s most important hub. Delta could just as easily retreat and focus on long haul expansion out of Salt Lake City (SLC). Thats not to say the airline will do that, but it could…
Bottom line
Delta has announced plans to launch two new seasonal long haul routes out of Seattle, to Barcelona and Rome. The flights will both launch as of May 2026, with the Rome route being an exact copy of the new route that Alaska just announced.
Consumers will certainly be the winners here, as we now see two new transatlantic routes launched, one with two competitors.
What do you make of Delta’s European expansion from Seattle, and how do you see this all playing out?
So pretty clear Timmy D’s timeout didn’t impart any new rationality on him…endless thousand word treatises on here. There is a bizarre mental issue there.
Ben, a tiger can’t change its stripes…send him back to LALF please.
Go Delta!! Almost everyone in Seattle has drank the Alaska Kool-Aid and despite what they think, Alaska isn't that great. Their fares are almost always more expensive out of Seattle and the product isn't any better.
"Their fares are almost always more expensive out of Seattle"
Given they have double the number of flights, that's pretty impressive. It means there's more demand for Alaska's flights vs Delta's flights.
You may not like Alaska. I don't really care, but your example actually proves you wrong and suggests the customer demand is with Alaska, not Delta in Seattle.
I am surprised that Barcelona granted the landing slots given the overtourism situation
The US has Open Skies with the EU which means that both countries (or the EU as a bloc) has to open its airports for any additional flights. Airlines are not guaranteed a specific slot time but it isn't even clear that these will be net additional flights to BCN or FCO across the DL network.
All DL is doing is making sure that AS understands that DL will match whatever AS does in growing...
The US has Open Skies with the EU which means that both countries (or the EU as a bloc) has to open its airports for any additional flights. Airlines are not guaranteed a specific slot time but it isn't even clear that these will be net additional flights to BCN or FCO across the DL network.
All DL is doing is making sure that AS understands that DL will match whatever AS does in growing its international network from SEA which dramatically reduces the likelihood of success for AS.
and, based on DL's press release, they might have gained access to more gates at SEA as a result of these adds since SEA allocates gates on a formula that favors widebody flights. someone can post the number of gates each carrier uses and the number of flights but DL has a higher percentage of gates relative to number of flights than AS and this move might have advanced that advantage for DL.
If nothing else, AS wants to add international longhaul flights to try to regain the gate advantage that DL has had by operating widebodies from SEA, something that AS is only now starting to do.
Even if AS fills these flights, it seems like they will be at a significant RASM disadvantage here unless and until they reconfigure their birds with more premium seating, including a proper premium economy cabin. Until then, their tendency might be to over-reach a bit on business pricing, which will make it even easier for DL to compete. AS does not have a lot of time to develop and execute a strategy for this, but it will be interesting to see what happens.
@Ben also I don't think these flights are daily.
I believe it's 4x weekly FCO and 3x weekly BCN, which is what they said at the event today.
which changes precisely what?
At worst, DL is matching the frequency that AS will offer to FCO and beat AS to the punch on AS, a market that AS' CEO said they were considering.
DL might or might not even increase the total amount of capacity from the US to both FCO and BCN if they shift flights from their eastern US gateways.
DL is making it clear to AS that they will match...
which changes precisely what?
At worst, DL is matching the frequency that AS will offer to FCO and beat AS to the punch on AS, a market that AS' CEO said they were considering.
DL might or might not even increase the total amount of capacity from the US to both FCO and BCN if they shift flights from their eastern US gateways.
DL is making it clear to AS that they will match whatever AS does in trying to find new markets where AS could start service that other airlines do not serve from SEA.
DL already flies to Tokyo and Seoul from SEA; the real question is how well AS is doing to Tokyo and I doubt they are remotely coming close to generating revenue remotely close to DL and that will be even more true to ICN given that it will start in the fall and up against 3 flights controlled by DL and KE.
AS' dreams of building SEA into a major international hub are going to require fighting with DL just as they did with UA at SFO - and UA clearly won that battle. just as AA, DL and UA did at LAX.
AS still lost money in the first quarter and has to digest HA's network even as recent data shows that tourism to Hawaii is falling AGAIN. AS cannot both generate industry-leading profits and also digest what was a money-losing airline while trying into new markets.
A few years from now, the A330s might just get retired which is what HA intended to do with them and AS might operate a few - not a dozen - longhaul routes from SEA and also from HNL on 787s.
It wouldn't be the first time that AS' ambitions dreams came crashing back to earth by reality.
it's called an observation, Tim. Not everything is a personal attack on Delta or you personally.
Chill out.
and yet neither you or yolo answered the question.
It doesn't matter if DL matches or exceeds what AS offered.
Nobody is offended and not everything I wrote is directed just at Yolo
You and others cling to size as evidence of some super ability to compete and yet the post above highlights precisely the issue that AS faces - DL has long been established in the international market; they have service from BCN and...
and yet neither you or yolo answered the question.
It doesn't matter if DL matches or exceeds what AS offered.
Nobody is offended and not everything I wrote is directed just at Yolo
You and others cling to size as evidence of some super ability to compete and yet the post above highlights precisely the issue that AS faces - DL has long been established in the international market; they have service from BCN and FCO to other US hubs and can compete far more effectively than AS can.
AS' larger domestic size including flights to Midwest cities from SEA do precisely nothing to give AS an advantage.
both of these are seasonal markets which AS wanted to operate while not answering the bigger question of how they are going to sustain year-round, profitable international operations - and that question is still not answered.
DL has managed to build hubs in 3 major metros on top of other carriers that were stronger than DL and in 2 of those 3 - NYC and BOS - DL is now the largest airline.
DL has managed to overtake AA in LAX and now in AUS.
The notion that gets repeated over and over that DL is some vulnerable weakling that can't defend itself is nauseating ignorant of reality.
for all the talk that Scott Kirby makes about how much UA will limit the growth of competitors, it is actually DL that has done it.
AS more than has its work cut out to achieve its goals of growing a major international operation. DL just made it clear that it intends to cede no ground and that doesn't matter whether DL starts SEA-FCO with 4 days or 7 days/week.
I do what? lol. Cling to what?
You read things and see things no one said.
Fact:
1. Delta is half the size of AS in Seattle. That provides more feed and enables more flights than DL can do overall. Your understanding of networks is severely ignorant if you think being half the size of your competitor doesn't matter in a hub.
2. Yolo made an observation that it's not daily,...
I do what? lol. Cling to what?
You read things and see things no one said.
Fact:
1. Delta is half the size of AS in Seattle. That provides more feed and enables more flights than DL can do overall. Your understanding of networks is severely ignorant if you think being half the size of your competitor doesn't matter in a hub.
2. Yolo made an observation that it's not daily, to Ben. You jumped on it with the usual multi-paragraph rant over an observation.
As Taylor would say, You need to calm down
you didn't answer the question and changed the topic because you can't stand to admit how hypocritical it is to criticize me for something that someone else is now doing - or else they copied someone else's information.
and you still can't grasp that AS' service to CMH and PIT and a whole bunch of other cities in the Midwest or even the eastern US does absolutely nothing to help it fill flights to Europe.
...you didn't answer the question and changed the topic because you can't stand to admit how hypocritical it is to criticize me for something that someone else is now doing - or else they copied someone else's information.
and you still can't grasp that AS' service to CMH and PIT and a whole bunch of other cities in the Midwest or even the eastern US does absolutely nothing to help it fill flights to Europe.
OTOH, DL can connect every city that AS serves east of the Rockies over multiple hubs without ridiculous backtracking - and the same is just as true for AA and UA as it is for DL.
quit arguing and looking to pick a fight and accept that DL is far better positioned to win in a contest for international growth out of SEA.
AS had a nice little niche at SEA and the PNW but clearly wasn't content so is growing in the path of the US' most successful megacarrier.
UA made mincemeat out of AS' dreams of building a California network.
Everyone loves to see the man at the top of the hill be dethroned but there are huge structural advantages for the big 3.
AS very well won't be near as successful in its quest to become a major international carrier at SEA as they or a whole lot of people believe.
I simply in stating the reality which time will show to be correct.
You need only look at BOS and NYC to see how DL fared in markets where DL was once the underdog.
You should go see a mental therapist. God even knows what you're seeing and reading at this point. I simply pointed out Yolo's observation that BCN and FCO are combined daily.
Somehow you're talking about CMH and PIT now? And I changed the topic?
You need to find better uses of your time.
the only person that needs help are those people that can't grasp that AS' larger size in SEA is because of 1. higher frequencies in the same markets that DL serves and 2. cities that provide no logical feed to a TATL flight from SEA including PIT and CMH and 3. cities that are too small to have any relevance to a TATL flight.
Not every post is about or in response to you or...
the only person that needs help are those people that can't grasp that AS' larger size in SEA is because of 1. higher frequencies in the same markets that DL serves and 2. cities that provide no logical feed to a TATL flight from SEA including PIT and CMH and 3. cities that are too small to have any relevance to a TATL flight.
Not every post is about or in response to you or anyone else.
just quit arguing, Max, and walk away.
As usual, you have nothing to discuss w/ the topic so you attack the messenger of the message you don't want to hear.
"As usual, you have nothing to discuss w/ the topic so you attack the messenger of the message you don't want to hear."
Hey pot, you're black.
STFU
I really don't know how me stating a fact about the new flights led to all this lol
The plan is for Delta to rotate in the inbound and outbound aircraft for these sets of flights, so it makes sense how it lines up at 4x and 3x weekly.
again, yolo, not everything that is a reply to you or anyone else is exclusively to you. You provide good data and conversation and have been quite civil in holding off in replying to me and Max.
your statement appears to be correct but the point still remains how that changes anything w/ AS. DL is matching AS' capacity - which is more than legal - and pre-announcing a route which AS hinted at.
Max...
again, yolo, not everything that is a reply to you or anyone else is exclusively to you. You provide good data and conversation and have been quite civil in holding off in replying to me and Max.
your statement appears to be correct but the point still remains how that changes anything w/ AS. DL is matching AS' capacity - which is more than legal - and pre-announcing a route which AS hinted at.
Max jumped into the conversation because he can't stand that someone else might contribute something that he didn't.
His "STFU" response highlights his defect.
He is incapable of accepting that two or more people can win in a conversation or in the marketplace. It has been his MO on this and other sites for years.
AS and DL have co-existed in a balance that gave DL the advantage in eastern US and international markets while AS had the overall size advantage in SEA and a larger presence in the PNW which DL didn't try to challenge.
DL is making it abundantly clear that it will cede nothing in the international market from SEA.
despite everything that has been said in this conversation, that is the clear takeaway.
Offering both destinations DL may coincidentally corner the Mediterranean cruise market originating out of the Pacific Northwest. There are so many ships plying Barcelona-to-Civitavecchia (Rome) route. Having a non-stop open-jaw flight option would surely be enticing to those who value convenience over price.
you mean that DL might understand the European market better than a Seattle based niche regional airline that suddenly decided that calling someone's aunt (or grandmother) seemed like the basis for starting a new route?
Facetiously, SEA-FCO sounds like a TATL "battle" equivalent of SEA-TPE: going from zero to two carriers, whereas TPE route got suddenly four carriers up from lonely EVA...
Let's hope passengers are the winners here...
Okay Delta fanboy, keep your pants on.
Just a couple data-based fact checks for Tim Dunn:
1. DL is not larger than AS to the East Coast - 2025 Q1 DOT data - the passenger figures are rounded hence they look a little wonky while the %'s are actuals:
- SEA to NYC (JFK/EWR): 1) AS 84.6% (66k/78k) 2) DL 88.1% (46k/52k) 3) UA 85.8% (26k/30k)
- SEA to BOS: 1) AS: 88.3% (31k/35k) 2) DL: 81.4% (31k/38k)
- SEA...
Just a couple data-based fact checks for Tim Dunn:
1. DL is not larger than AS to the East Coast - 2025 Q1 DOT data - the passenger figures are rounded hence they look a little wonky while the %'s are actuals:
- SEA to NYC (JFK/EWR): 1) AS 84.6% (66k/78k) 2) DL 88.1% (46k/52k) 3) UA 85.8% (26k/30k)
- SEA to BOS: 1) AS: 88.3% (31k/35k) 2) DL: 81.4% (31k/38k)
- SEA to DC: 1) AS: 87.0% (44k/49k) 2) UA: 83.4% (13k/16k) 3) DL: 78.5% (13k/16k)
- SEA to ATL: 1) DL: 88.9% (80k/90k) 2) AS: 86.4% (23k/26k)
- SEA to FLL: 1) AS: 83.1% (23k/28k) 2) DL: 77.1% (13k/17k)
- SEA to MIA: 1) AS: 87.0% (15k/17k) 2) DL: 74.3% (13k/17k)
- SEA to MCO: 1) AS: 87.5% (49k/56k) 2) DL: 92.9% (26k/29k)
- SEA to TPA: 1) AS: 86.3% (27k/31k) 2) DL: 86.3% (13k/15k)
- SEA to RDU: 1) AS: 85.8% (13k/15k) 2): DL: 70.2% (10k/14k)
AS also flies to destinations DL does not serve from SEA such as BWI (13k), CHS (11k), PHL (16k), and PIT (6k).
AS is also larger than DL on SEA-Midwest since it is larger than DL at ORD (47k to 17k) and MCI (15k to 6k), smaller at DTW (48k to 11k) and MSP (57k to 24k), marginally smaller at CVG (11k to 9k), but serves CLE (11k), IND (12k), MKE (8k), OMA (10k), STL (17k), and CMH (10k) unlike DL.
Also note I did not factor AA into any of those figures.
2. DL's domestic performance at SEA
58% of DL's domestic routes at SEA had LFs of 80% or below. This was 26% for AS. Only 11 DL domestic routes from SEA had LFs higher than 85% vs 26 for AS
Based on Enilria and Crankyflier's data we know for a fact that DL does not get premium yields relative to the rest of its network. Almost all of its entire domestic network (95%) rates in the bottom 40% of its PRASM adjusted for stage length.
3. DL growth at SEA
DL's has a ~24% market share at SEA vs 52% for AS including intl. AS is 2.5x larger domestically (58% share to 24% share) and larger in regional intl to Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean. DL is larger long-haul, but the intl only market share at SEA in 2024 was 25% DL to 16% AS.
DL has not gained any market share domestically at SEA since 2019. DOT data on domestic market share:
- Mar '19 to Feb '20: AS (mainline): 42.75%; DL (mainline): 19.81%; Horizon (AS-only regional): 9.37% (note that SkyWest which is split between AS and DL had <6.2% share)
- Mar '24 to Feb '25: AS (mainline): 48.86%; DL (mainline): 19.74%; SkyWest (DL + AS regional): 7.06%; Horizon (AS-only regional): 6.16%
Bbbbbbbbbbbut Delta is so profitable! And has SUITES with DOORS!
"And has SUITES with DOORS!"
The doors obsession is really only one member here, and it isn't Tim. ;)
I'm still waiting for a single corporate or HVC to say that doors is a determinate thing for flight selection. Haven't heard that anywhere, throughout all the industry.
and your point is precisely WHAT?
We have listened for 10 years to how DL would fail at SEA, an endless supply of cherrypicked and manufactured data that "proves" how poorly DL is doing - and DL has clearly indicated that it isn't going anywhere and is, in fact, growing.
So, again, Jeremy, WTF is your point?
btw, REVENUE is what matters. Why don't you restate your numbers based on REVENUE, not passengers boarded....
and your point is precisely WHAT?
We have listened for 10 years to how DL would fail at SEA, an endless supply of cherrypicked and manufactured data that "proves" how poorly DL is doing - and DL has clearly indicated that it isn't going anywhere and is, in fact, growing.
So, again, Jeremy, WTF is your point?
btw, REVENUE is what matters. Why don't you restate your numbers based on REVENUE, not passengers boarded. DL gets a SIGNIFICANT revenue premium to AS per passenger boarded at SEA.
Tim arguing that Delta gets higher yield is really not relevant if the planes are much emptier. Yield does not equal RASM. And neither commenter brings up CASM, which Alaska also has a clear advantage on. If Delta gets higher yield on worse LFs (similar RASM?), but on much higher CASM (more premium configuration props up RASM at CASM expense), delta still loses.
To be fair, the winner in all this is the consumer. Delta...
Tim arguing that Delta gets higher yield is really not relevant if the planes are much emptier. Yield does not equal RASM. And neither commenter brings up CASM, which Alaska also has a clear advantage on. If Delta gets higher yield on worse LFs (similar RASM?), but on much higher CASM (more premium configuration props up RASM at CASM expense), delta still loses.
To be fair, the winner in all this is the consumer. Delta has subsidized Seattle passengers to the tune of a billion dollars over the past decade while forcing Alaska to offer lower prices as well. The consumer is the winner so we should all be cheering for delta to keep climbing or whatever it is their slogan is
first, the exact same content that Jeremy posted here was posted on another site under another site under the name ASFlyer.
He either completely stole someone else's work or he uses multiple user names on multiple sites.
and most significantly, he clearly has a loyalty to AS and may even be an AS employee by the looks of that user name. Routine passengers don't have access to the data he posted.
and he...
first, the exact same content that Jeremy posted here was posted on another site under another site under the name ASFlyer.
He either completely stole someone else's work or he uses multiple user names on multiple sites.
and most significantly, he clearly has a loyalty to AS and may even be an AS employee by the looks of that user name. Routine passengers don't have access to the data he posted.
and he also twisted what I said which is that DL carries more passengers to the EASTERN US, not the east coast. Pulling out a few markets doesn't disprove the point.
and the REAL POINT which neither he nor anyone else has been able to answer is SO WHAT? the incessant theme that everyone seems to have is that DL is some weakling that will roll over and let AS do what they want - which now includes new international routes - is patently false.
AS is a niche regional legacy carrier competing with DL and UA in the western US, each of which have 3 hubs. DL most certainly carries more revenue from the western US and also has an entrenched international presence not just to Asia from the west coast but also to Europe.
DL is going precisely nowhere. and all the blather about how poorly DL does in SEA doesn't change that, until DL really does pull back from SEA - which seems to be just a wet dream for some people, SEA will remain a contested hub with AS and DL taking different parts of the hub and both doing well enough to continue to grow.
AS decided they are too small - the same decision they made when they acquired Virgin America - and yet the competition decimated the Virgin America network.
there are a few people that understand the principle that two people or parties can both win. The airline industry is very competitive. DL has built a hub in SEA on top of AS' hub and ten years of doom and gloom have not diminished their resolve to remain there.
DL has managed to build hubs where others were once stronger and have outgrown every other competitor in NYC and BOS which are also highly competitive markets. SEA might not be the same but the inability for some to accept that AS and DL might both coexist at SEA and both fight is the reality that still manages to exist.
And AS is a smaller carrier, is digesting HA which was money-losing, and AS is the one that decided that the 10 year division that has existed isn't good enough any more. DL is pushing back.
Let's check back in a few years but the notion that either AS or DL is going to blink seems childishly ignorant of the history of both carriers.
look at you desperately reading airliners.net though you've been banned there for you.
I thought you didn't need to read it? Wasn't a.net beneath you after your ban? ;)
"He either completely stole someone else's work or he uses multiple user names on multiple sites."
Not to mention the absolute gall and irony of one Tim Dunn accusing someone of multiple usernames after his ban on a.net for MULTIPLE usernames over and over as well as on this site, per Ben.
so did he copy someone else's work or does he post under 2 different user names on 2 sites?
You clearly aren't capable of understanding the hypocrisy of doing something years ago that someone else is doing now.
Hypocrisy of your multiple usernames accusation that got you banned on the very site you're referencing (and here) for... MULTIPLE USERNAMES lol
ASFlyer even said it wasn't his own work on a.net from what I recall reading yesterday.
Chill out
But I do love that you still religiously read a.net comments despite saying MULTIPLE times that you're above that website now.
Hypocrisy never dies with you...
In fact, This was ASFlyer's exact quote on airliners.net, you idiot.
"Finally, here's some info posted on another site by a commenter named Jeremy. I haven't researched it for accuracy but it's pretty much in line with figures I've heard."
Are you really this bad at reading or do you just enjoy attacking others for no reason because they know how to use data, unlike you?
true hypocrisy at its finest.
and you still can't answer the question as to how someone that is a supposed non-airline employee has access to data that can only be gained from airline specific automated systems in the time that whoever posted it.
and it is still cherrypicked data which is no surprise. I said the eastern US and Jeremy or whoever came back w/ a bunch of cherrypicked destinations with LF data. DL carries...
true hypocrisy at its finest.
and you still can't answer the question as to how someone that is a supposed non-airline employee has access to data that can only be gained from airline specific automated systems in the time that whoever posted it.
and it is still cherrypicked data which is no surprise. I said the eastern US and Jeremy or whoever came back w/ a bunch of cherrypicked destinations with LF data. DL carries more traffic from the western US to the eastern US.
and you and jeremy and everyone else can't answer the question which is "so what"
You and others including Jeremy have been posting non-stop for 10 years about how DL can't compete with AS in SEA and yet DL just dropped another hammer.
If this was all so costly to DL, then they wouldn't be generating the profits they are - which far exceed what AS is reporting, when AS actually reports profits which they didn't in the first quarter.
AS' costs will increase as they integrate HA's workforce and pay all of their people more.
HA is still losing money even as Hawaii tourism falls AGAIN.
While you and others nitpick at cherrypicked details to find fault w/ me and DL's strategies, the bottom line hasn't change which is that DL isn't going anywhere in SEA and has the resources to make AS think real hard about whether it isn't a better idea just to replace those 332s with 787s rather than trying to grow a large international operation at SEA.
A simple "I'm sorry" would suffice, Tim.
You went off on your normal deranged rant about fake usernames (hypocrisy at its finest from you). It's pointed out to you that the user you attack even said it came from elsewhere.
Now you're mad that someone uses data when you never do?
The way you try to change the topic when proven wrong. It never stops being funny.
Get some mental help. You're insane. And I don't say that lightly. You need mental help.
all that LF data is publicly available T100 data
The whole "Alaska has the most loyal following" in Seattle is so overblown. Having lived in Seattle for 17 years now, I can say that yes, there are a few dedicated Alaska fanboys out there, but the number is small. There are also some dedicated Delta flyers, like myself. And then there are the vast majority of people who fly the airline that is most convenient and affordable. Most people in the area end up...
The whole "Alaska has the most loyal following" in Seattle is so overblown. Having lived in Seattle for 17 years now, I can say that yes, there are a few dedicated Alaska fanboys out there, but the number is small. There are also some dedicated Delta flyers, like myself. And then there are the vast majority of people who fly the airline that is most convenient and affordable. Most people in the area end up flying Alaska more than Delta because they have more flights and nonstop options, not because they love the company that much.
For the Rome flights, Delta is going to have more frequent flights (daily rather than 4x weekly), a better J experience (suites with doors, new swanky lounge), and a better coach experience (2-4-2 vs 3-3-3 on the Hawaiian 787, plus the 787 coach seats are narrower and have less leg room). As long as they compete on price (which they will), Delta will do fine. A few more people in Seattle will sign up for their credit card, which is their ultimate goal.
Let's not forget that these are Hawaiian branded planes with Hawaiian crew flying on the international routes (for now). With only 4x weekly service, the people who are casually loyal to Alaska are not going to cut their Italian vacation short by a day so they can fly Hawaiian.
you can't say that!
logic and data are not allowed on these discussions.
and what percentage of Europeans are going to consider an airline named Alaska or Hawaiian? The peak of the US market to Europe lasts for a couple months. All DL has to do is sit on top of AS for those peak months and AS' ANNUAL profits are cratered.
Don't forget that, even before the HA acquisition, AS loses money at least one quarter per year.
Honestly, the main thing that powers Alaska is their mileage program. No single carrier in the US is that good.
It's hard to get people to switch over from one of the best programs to one of the least valuable programs in SkyMiles.
That being said, Delta didn't exist a decade ago at SEA, and have built up 25% market share somehow, those customers came from somewhere. It's not completely unfathomable for them to maintain...
Honestly, the main thing that powers Alaska is their mileage program. No single carrier in the US is that good.
It's hard to get people to switch over from one of the best programs to one of the least valuable programs in SkyMiles.
That being said, Delta didn't exist a decade ago at SEA, and have built up 25% market share somehow, those customers came from somewhere. It's not completely unfathomable for them to maintain or grow their market share.
Delta said at their event today, they are fully committed to growing SEA.
Lolololol I remember when Lucky joked that he wouldn't be surprised if DL magically adds SEA-FCO, someone said it was highly doubtful....the same person is now defending them
reread the VERY FIRST comment that was made to this article and it will be clear that you, not me, missed what was said.
I would far rather that DL would have announced a Pacific flight or two but they are clearly not going to give AS an inch of wiggle room in AS' goal of building a longhaul international operation in SEA.
As hard as it is for some to grasp, let alone accept,...
reread the VERY FIRST comment that was made to this article and it will be clear that you, not me, missed what was said.
I would far rather that DL would have announced a Pacific flight or two but they are clearly not going to give AS an inch of wiggle room in AS' goal of building a longhaul international operation in SEA.
As hard as it is for some to grasp, let alone accept, AS and DL have split the SEA market for the ten years that DL has had a hub there. AS has had the largest total domestic presence but DL was larger to the eastern US and had the longhaul international market.
AS decided - just as it did with the Virgin America merger - that they wanted to be bigger than their PNW domestic strengths - and DL, just as UA did 10 years ago, has decided to challenge AS' ambitions.
DL doesn't need my defense or my advise. They clearly decided that they could make money flying from the PNW to Southern Europe, something that only BOS, JFK, ATL and DTW get the pleasure of doing on DL's system. SEA will be the 6th hub for DL service to FCO while SEA becomes BCN's 4th hub destination.
DL generated $1.1 billion in profits flying the Atlantic in 2024, 32% more than UA did even though UA was larger. DL knows what it is doing on its international network.
and, HA's TPAC system lost $20 million in the first quarter of 2025 which was more than cut in half from the previous year, proving that AS is cutting SOME of the money-losing HA flights. But HA also lost money on its domestic system and AS lost money on its domestic system and to Latin America and, of course, on the bottom line - which is where it counts.
AS really is not in any position to be getting into any market share battles with anyone. They weren't after the Virgin America acquisition and they won't be now.
DL is obviously making it clear they won't cede any part of the longhaul international market at SEA to AS.
@Tim Dunn--with all due respect, you commented on Lucky's report on AS's Rome announcement that there was absolutely no way DL would ever duplicate the SEA-FCO route. I responded that it might be low probability but I was sure it was being considered. It turns out we were both wrong--it was 100% probability!
I think your new stance--that DL doesn't want to cede one inch on international long haul, its real strength at SEA, to...
@Tim Dunn--with all due respect, you commented on Lucky's report on AS's Rome announcement that there was absolutely no way DL would ever duplicate the SEA-FCO route. I responded that it might be low probability but I was sure it was being considered. It turns out we were both wrong--it was 100% probability!
I think your new stance--that DL doesn't want to cede one inch on international long haul, its real strength at SEA, to AS is absolutely correct. DL essentially said "see you and raise you" today. They "raised" in a couple of ways:
1. Daily service to FCO as opposed to AS's 4 times weekly
2. A preemptive strike on the new route to BCN, someplace I think AS has also been considering
3. DL timed today's announcement with the opening of 2 new Sky Clubs at SEA today. They used to have 2 clubs before but closed the S satellite club during the pandemic. One of the new clubs is a new DeltaOne Lounge and they already have a separate D1 check-in area. The VP for Seattle points out that they face a lot of competition at JFK, BOS, and SEA and are used to that level of competition.
I agree with Lucky that only time will tell how well these new routes perform. I would point out that no one (myself included) believed that 4 carriers to TPE could prosper but so far, they all seem to be doing OK. There seems to be a bigger drop in travel to the entire USA from Europe than from Asia, which could affect these routes, and if going to BCN, I might have to pack a squirt gun for self defense, given recent protests-- but we shall see. For now, I am just happy to see new nonstops and on the Rome route, at least the possibility of decent fares.
I used to be pissed off at TD's insufferable attitude... right now I just have sympathy for him. I mean he was banned and allowed back yet continues with the drivel.... This is not a troll but someone with deeper issues that need to be addressed.
Looks like an A330-200 with a brand new three-class cabin to Rome will likely result in a much higher low factor than a much larger A350 or Boeing 787.
The other benefit of the A330-200 is the depreciation value is already factored in and would be substantially less than burning up air miles using a half full larger aircraft, until the route matures for both carriers to succeed profitably.
Delta is flying a 330-900 which is actually DL's youngest widebody fleet type. They are receiving the last 3 of their 339 order this summer and then a half dozen of them will come off the Pacific over the next year -most already have - which is why DL has growth capacity over the Atlantic on top of new 359 deliveries.
AS and DL's ownership costs will be comparable. DL will have far higher revenue...
Delta is flying a 330-900 which is actually DL's youngest widebody fleet type. They are receiving the last 3 of their 339 order this summer and then a half dozen of them will come off the Pacific over the next year -most already have - which is why DL has growth capacity over the Atlantic on top of new 359 deliveries.
AS and DL's ownership costs will be comparable. DL will have far higher revenue generating capacity solely on the basis of having more premium seats between Delta One and Premium Select.
By this logic La Compagnie should be the most profitable airline on earth. Like, why even offer economy?
I'm guessing here, thinking that HA employees will work HA fights, while AS works AS flights. There will be a learning curve for AS F/A's as they have no experience working 10-12 hours international routes. Different level of service is required. US Airways never learned that, and one sees that on American now.
I never understand why the travel press and bloggers obsess over who will "retreat" from a market given profitability concerns.
American goes through cycles of "retreating" from NYC and then saying they want to compete. When they retreat, bloggers complain that there is not enough competition in NYC.
Here, we have two airlines battling it out in Seattle, and consumers can only benefit. Let's hope Alaska and Delta battle it out in Seattle indefinitely, and...
I never understand why the travel press and bloggers obsess over who will "retreat" from a market given profitability concerns.
American goes through cycles of "retreating" from NYC and then saying they want to compete. When they retreat, bloggers complain that there is not enough competition in NYC.
Here, we have two airlines battling it out in Seattle, and consumers can only benefit. Let's hope Alaska and Delta battle it out in Seattle indefinitely, and offer consumers good routing and good pricing from the airport. Rome and Barcelona are two extremely popular destinations, so it makes sense Delta would offer flights to these cities from one of their hubs. As of now, they only fly to these cities from the east - Seattle is as good of a choice as any for West coast flights.
"American goes through cycles of "retreating" from NYC and then saying they want to compete. When they retreat, bloggers complain that there is not enough competition in NYC."
It's a common view, but AA has never once lost a slot in LGA or JFK.
'
Great time to go to Southern Europe from Juneau and Fairbanks next year
"A has never once lost a slot in LGA or JFK."
"In 2019, the Federal Aviation Administration reclaimed seven [JFK] slots from American Airlines, chief commercial officer Vasu Raja confirmed in U.S. District Court in Boston on Friday, after an audit found that American was underutilizing the coveted use-it-or-lose-it spots."
There's a bit more to that...
just admit you are wrong, Max.
AA HAS lost slots at LGA and JFK and the whole NEA was a failed attempt to meet the FAA's slot usage requirements that AA had failed to abide by for years.
hi tim. They haven't but that isn't a post for this forum.
Stick to what you know.
Your statement is categorically, false, max.
Instead of doubling down on attacking others, just admit you are wrong or walk away
American has most certainly lost and under utilizedslots at New York City airports
Enjoy your ignorance
Like I said, not a topic for this forum
And I won’t be taking any idiocy from you about admitting when you’re wrong
But thanks
IOW, you don't want to admit that you were wrong and there were "extenuating circumstances" that justify your bloviating.
you were wrong and I wasn't even the first person to shove it in your face.
:) If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Alas. Didn't think they had and I know what the court script is referring to quite well.
Take a chill pill, Tim.
You never admit when you're wrong even when it's standard industry terminology.
Is your life this sad? Posting until nearly midnight?
"Delta has steadily been growing its presence in Seattle for roughly a decade now..."
Not exactly. Delta's interest in Seattle comes and goes, and the number of flights they have follows their waxing and waning interest.
As you correctly pointed out, Delta is prone to cutting routes and could easily walk away from the region. Alaska is here to stay. Everybody knows this (even you-know-who).
Alaska has made it clear they plan to continue to...
"Delta has steadily been growing its presence in Seattle for roughly a decade now..."
Not exactly. Delta's interest in Seattle comes and goes, and the number of flights they have follows their waxing and waning interest.
As you correctly pointed out, Delta is prone to cutting routes and could easily walk away from the region. Alaska is here to stay. Everybody knows this (even you-know-who).
Alaska has made it clear they plan to continue to expand aggressively. Barcelona was a pretty easy call (as would be Madrid, too). I'm guessing Alaska will soon counter this by announcing Madrid, and up the ante with Lisbon and Athens, too.
Alaska is constrained by 787 delivery schedule (unless they decide to steal some A330s from Hawaii flying). Given they already have 3 SEA routes planned for next summer (ICN, NRT, FCO) I'd be surprised if they added any more for 2026. I'm guessing Delta thinks that by adding BCN they can get a jumpstart and prevent Alaska from adding it in 2027. As for FCO, maybe Alaska makes it daily instead of 4x weekly now but it's hard to say.
Dick,
feel free to post AS and DL's average number of flights at SEA over the past decade in which they have had competitive hubs at SEA.
If you did, you would see that DL HAS NOT retreated. It has dropped some markets and added others - just as all airlines do.
In fact, I can assure you that DL is flying a higher percentage of its network from 10 years ago than AS is.
Dick,
feel free to post AS and DL's average number of flights at SEA over the past decade in which they have had competitive hubs at SEA.
If you did, you would see that DL HAS NOT retreated. It has dropped some markets and added others - just as all airlines do.
In fact, I can assure you that DL is flying a higher percentage of its network from 10 years ago than AS is.
AS walked away from huge amounts of its Virgin America acquired network.
DL is the only one of the megacarriers that has opened MULTIPLE hubs in other airline strength markets/hubs over just the past 10 years - BOS and SEA. DL's lead over B6 at both JFK and BOS continues to grow.
And they displaced AA as the largest carrier at LAX and 2nd largest at AUS.
and remember that the A330-900s to fly these two new routes are coming off of DL's SEA-Asia network as the ex-Latam A350-900s become the growth TPAC capacity DL needed to offer an even larger network from SEA.
Spare us the bias and deal w/ facts.
(Quietly laughing) But, Yay for Barcelona and that's all I will say!
Alaska should bluff and announce that it is adding flights to Madrid and see if Delta will copy.
Pretty sure that won't be a bluff when they do announce it. Now if they announce Paris & Amsterdam.
People need to remember Delta makes money through the SkyMiles loyalty programme, not flying.
SEA MSA has the 4th highest per capita GDP in the US, they are selling millions of dollars of SkyMiles to Amex thanks to their partnership. The SkyClub/D1 lounge/Centurion lounge are the top 3 lounges at SEA and always have long lines out of them.
Delta also put the following into its press release
"Delta has secured priority access to 18 gates across Concourses A and B"
which might mean that DL is beating AS to the punch of trying to gain access to more gates by using more widebodies since SEA allocates gates in a formula that favors widebodies.
anyone that thought that DL was going to lay down and not fight for SEA clearly doesn't know Delta.
nobody thought they were going down without a fight lol they've been proudly bleeding money in SEA for a full decade now. Never back down!!!
feel free to provide evidence that DL is bleeding money.
You can't because there is no evidence.
and if DL can manage to "bleed money" in SEA and still be the highest revenue and highest market cap airline in the world, then it would seem that AS has a pretty high uphill battle on its hands.
Again, AS has a history of acquiring an airline with the expectation that they would take on a...
feel free to provide evidence that DL is bleeding money.
You can't because there is no evidence.
and if DL can manage to "bleed money" in SEA and still be the highest revenue and highest market cap airline in the world, then it would seem that AS has a pretty high uphill battle on its hands.
Again, AS has a history of acquiring an airline with the expectation that they would take on a much larger competitor and United handedly dismantled AS' position in SFO and AA and DL did the same thing in LAX along with UA.
Let's see how this all plays out but AS and DL had their "sides" of the SEA market and it is AS that decided it wanted to move the line; DL has no intention of rolling over and letting AS gain anything.
now, if only AS would point one of their 787s to SIN
Genuinely curious Tim - what’s stopping delta from adding SEA-SIN, they clearly have the capabilities to make the route work
What's stopping Delta from flying SEA-SIN is exactly what will stop Alaska from doing so: Singapore Airlines already flies the route 4 times weekly, using an A350. Neither AS nor DL can compete with Singapore for service.
Delta has retreated from SEA before. They're out-of-towners with no real commitment to the region.
I believe delta is pulling out of the s concourse as a result of the a and b gates transition. I know both would like more gates but SeaTac is packed until they do the north terminal expansion which is years away even from ground breaking
S will become international airlines and some cats and dogs. A concourse will be all delta and maybe some skyteam partners. B will have delta united and southwest....
I believe delta is pulling out of the s concourse as a result of the a and b gates transition. I know both would like more gates but SeaTac is packed until they do the north terminal expansion which is years away even from ground breaking
S will become international airlines and some cats and dogs. A concourse will be all delta and maybe some skyteam partners. B will have delta united and southwest. Alaska continues to have all of c and n and shares d with American. How Alaska handles international will be interesting as Alaska has one wide body gate. So your going to see a lot more Alaska out of s concourse
day 294,290,592 of asking for Singapore
Standing by for that a350-1k
Why would Delta do that, when Seattle-Singapore is a comparatively tiny local market, which Singapore Airlines is both already on, and has feed on both ends?
If they're going to jump into a competitive market like that, they'd be far better off attempting to tap LAX, which has far more demand despite Singapore's sometimes-3 flights per day.
Genuinely surprised by this move by them. It seems like DL could have an avenue to make Seattle work as a two-airline international hub, where AS potentially focuses more on leisure destinations like FCO while DL focuses on traditional business markets like LHR. By adding FCO and BCN they're making it clear they intend to crowd Alaska out... and in Seattle I don't think that's a possibility. If the market truly is only big enough...
Genuinely surprised by this move by them. It seems like DL could have an avenue to make Seattle work as a two-airline international hub, where AS potentially focuses more on leisure destinations like FCO while DL focuses on traditional business markets like LHR. By adding FCO and BCN they're making it clear they intend to crowd Alaska out... and in Seattle I don't think that's a possibility. If the market truly is only big enough for one international hub, it seems incredibly likely that Alaska would win out in the long run (in SEA). Hard to not let emotions get the best of you but I thought Delta's network planning group was a little wiser than this.
"it seems incredibly likely that Alaska would win out in the long run (in SEA)."
Based on what?
Alaska has almost no experience on longhaul, even less brand recognition on other continents, and nowhere near the same amount of money to burn in a protracted war.
Having more domestic frequencies in Seattle doesn't really do much to counteract all of the above.
While I think it SEA is not a great choice for adding flights to Asia, it is clear that DL has no intention or ceding an inch of market to AS.
DL has airplanes in its fleet now that offer far higher levels of service than AS will be able to come up with.
and now the Delta One lounge and two SkyClubs.
and the whole notion of how much larger AS is in SEA...
While I think it SEA is not a great choice for adding flights to Asia, it is clear that DL has no intention or ceding an inch of market to AS.
DL has airplanes in its fleet now that offer far higher levels of service than AS will be able to come up with.
and now the Delta One lounge and two SkyClubs.
and the whole notion of how much larger AS is in SEA is ignorant of how airline networks work.
AS flies more frequencies to many of the same destinations DL serves and yet only one domestic flight for each destination connects best to each international flight.
AS' service to CMH and PIT doesn't add one iota of advantage to them in getting more revenue to Europe.
correction
While I think it SEA is not a great choice for adding flights to Europe but rather is best suited for Asia...
Tim Dunn is not a popular guy here but he is right. Alaska is more suited to expansion in Asia.
Kaohsiung, Hong Kong, Singapore, Sydney, Osaka are all better.
If Alaska insists on Europe, there's still time to move the Rome flight to Madrid, Duesseldorf, Zurich, or Gatwick.
Sorry, @Derek, but I just don't agree, except for SYD. There are already 4 daily flights to Taiwan. DL used to fly SEA to KIX and HKG and ended up pulling out of both markets. Southern Europe makes more sense to me as these are seriously underserved markets. If you are thinking they won't get connecting traffic from points very far east, I agree. I would just point out these flights don't need that to...
Sorry, @Derek, but I just don't agree, except for SYD. There are already 4 daily flights to Taiwan. DL used to fly SEA to KIX and HKG and ended up pulling out of both markets. Southern Europe makes more sense to me as these are seriously underserved markets. If you are thinking they won't get connecting traffic from points very far east, I agree. I would just point out these flights don't need that to survive. The combined population of the Vancouver (BC), Portland (OR), and Seattle areas is more than 9 million.
How can you possibly quantify "one flight for each destination connects best to each int'l flight"? One pax's ideal connect time is 1h30m and another's is 4h. As the post says, more choice is good for the consumer.
Using CMH and PIT as your 'random' examples almost seems like a bad faith attempt to ignore AS's commitment to places like WRG, FAI, and others that drives their brand loyalty to begin with.
Network advantage is a piece of it but loyalty is equally big if not bigger. There's only so many cities that flow into SEA that can't also flow through SLC or SFO or anywhere else with reasonable schedules. What it will come down to is who do customers prefer (in Seattle there's a clear answer).
and yet not a single person has presented facts that show that AS has a loyalty advantage per passenger.
In fact, data shows that DL gets more revenue per passenger from the SEA local market in part because of DL's larger size in the eastern US as well as its international reach.
No, there really is not a clear winner. AS has had an advantage in the domestic market BECAUSE OF SIZE in...
and yet not a single person has presented facts that show that AS has a loyalty advantage per passenger.
In fact, data shows that DL gets more revenue per passenger from the SEA local market in part because of DL's larger size in the eastern US as well as its international reach.
No, there really is not a clear winner. AS has had an advantage in the domestic market BECAUSE OF SIZE in the markets they serve.
AS simply does not have an advantage in the markets where DL has its strengths and that is not what DL is willing to give up no matter how much AS wants to fight for that place.
Let's not forget that AS had grandiose expectations with the Virgin America acquisition and ten years later the network they have in California is a shadow of itself. United won that battle. AS decided to take on DL in SEA with international and I will predict that the expectations of success that many have for AS will come crashing down.
AS acquiring VX was somewhat of a defensive move. They also wanted to diversify and "do to United in SFO what Delta did to Alaska in Seattle". Turns out that just means to lose money, and AS (better late than never) realized it wasn't worth it.
What it really all boils down to is that being #1 in a metro area is the golden ticket. If you're #2 you're not willing on loyalty, you're not...
AS acquiring VX was somewhat of a defensive move. They also wanted to diversify and "do to United in SFO what Delta did to Alaska in Seattle". Turns out that just means to lose money, and AS (better late than never) realized it wasn't worth it.
What it really all boils down to is that being #1 in a metro area is the golden ticket. If you're #2 you're not willing on loyalty, you're not getting lucrative corporate deals, you're not commanding a revenue premium. AA has learned this lesson over and over, Alaska learned it in SFO, etc... Delta only has 1 hub where they aren't #1 and it's Seattle. That's why SEA so dramatically underperforms the rest of their network. Even NYC is basically split into two kingdoms with United owning EWR. If you have to compete and be #2, you're not long for this world.
I've never understand how/why you think Delta being #2 in SEA is actually OK for them when all the evidence points otherwise
"and the whole notion of how much larger AS is in SEA is ignorant of how airline networks work.
AS flies more frequencies to many of the same destinations DL serves and yet only one domestic flight for each destination connects best to each international flight."
Tim, it actually sounds like you have no idea how ignorant you are about how airline networks work. Perhaps stick to what you know.
Alaska serves more than double the amount of cities from SEA as Delta does? Which to be fair, if Alaska has an advantage connecting SBP-SEA-FCO compared to Delta (who doesn't serve SBP from SEA), that's not a totally fair comparison because Alaska would also be competing against United's SBP-SFO-FCO routing or other similar routings. But it does totally make a difference on how SEA-FCO specifically performs if multiple carriers are offering it. You need as...
Alaska serves more than double the amount of cities from SEA as Delta does? Which to be fair, if Alaska has an advantage connecting SBP-SEA-FCO compared to Delta (who doesn't serve SBP from SEA), that's not a totally fair comparison because Alaska would also be competing against United's SBP-SFO-FCO routing or other similar routings. But it does totally make a difference on how SEA-FCO specifically performs if multiple carriers are offering it. You need as wide of a tent as possible, and Alaska's is a lot lot wider. But to Tim's point, yes Alaska also does offer way more frequencies which bolsters the loyalty case too :)
and DL has far more experience and size not just to FCO and BCN but to Tokyo and ICN and every other destination which AS might choose to start longhaul service on.
DL has multiple hubs. They can and will route traffic on whatever flights are needed to achieve their goals.
and it isn't even a given that the new SEA flights will be a net increase in capacity for DL to those cities...
and DL has far more experience and size not just to FCO and BCN but to Tokyo and ICN and every other destination which AS might choose to start longhaul service on.
DL has multiple hubs. They can and will route traffic on whatever flights are needed to achieve their goals.
and it isn't even a given that the new SEA flights will be a net increase in capacity for DL to those cities - they could reallocate some of the capacity from ATL or JFK - which have double daily service at least some days of some of the year.
Carrying the most passengers does not equate to loyalty. Delta has the loyalty in the SEA international market.
and your point about UA also highlights that UA added DEN-FCO; DL could be just as interested in choking off UA's ability to grow as they are AS'