Competition in Seattle is continuing to heat up, as Alaska Airlines and Delta Air Lines battle it out on long haul routes…
In this post:
Delta adding two new Europe routes from Seattle
Delta has announced that it plans to add two new daily long haul routes from Seattle (SEA) as of the summer 2026 season. Specifically, as of May 6, 2026, the airline will fly daily to Rome (FCO), and as of May 7, 2026, the airline will fly daily to Barcelona (BCN). The routes will cover 5,688 miles and 5,439 miles, respectively.
This announcement comes at the same time as news of the new Delta One Lounge Seattle. 
While both routes will be daily in season, it’s not yet clear if the flights will operate year-round or seasonally. I’d guess the routes will be seasonal (or will at least have reduced frequencies in winter), but that hasn’t yet been officially announced. The schedules for the routes haven’t yet been revealed, but I’ll be sure to provide an update once we learn more.
Both routes will be operated by Airbus A330-900neos, featuring 281 seats, including 29 business class (Delta One) seats, 28 premium economy (Premium Select) seats, 56 extra legroom economy (Comfort+) seats, and 168 economy (Main Cabin) seats.
These new routes will complement Delta’s existing European routes out of Seattle, including to Amsterdam (AMS), London (LHR), and Paris (CDG), all of which are year-round.
Alaska & Delta are going head-to-head in Seattle
It’s no secret why Delta is suddenly launching new long haul routes in Seattle. While Delta has steadily been growing its presence in Seattle for roughly a decade now, the competitive dynamics have changed.
With Alaska having acquired Hawaiian, Alaska is now launching long haul routes out of Seattle, with the goal of having a dozen long haul routes by 2030. Tokyo Narita (NRT) service launched in May 2025, Seoul Incheon (ICN) service will launch in September 2025, and Rome (FCO) service will launch in May 2026.
So I think it’s pretty obvious why Delta would now add flights from Seattle to Rome, and to Barcelona, one of the other unserved markets out of Seattle that’s most in demand.
It’s anyone’s guess how the “battle in Seattle” plays out. Is there room for both airlines to thrive with long haul service from the airport? Or will one airline eventually have to retreat?
Delta is of course one of the world’s most profitable airlines (no longer the most profitable — that title now belongs to Emirates, at least officially), and routes planners at the airline obviously know what they’re doing. The airline has long haul joint ventures, and has lots of experience with making money on long haul flying.
At the same time, Alaska has the most loyal following in Seattle, a larger regional connecting network in the Pacific Northwest, and a better cost structure. Furthermore, I imagine Alaska is more committed to making Seattle long haul service work, given that Seattle is the carrier’s most important hub. Delta could just as easily retreat and focus on long haul expansion out of Salt Lake City (SLC). Thats not to say the airline will do that, but it could…
Bottom line
Delta has announced plans to launch two new long haul routes out of Seattle, to Barcelona and Rome. The flights will both launch as of May 2026, with the Rome route being an exact copy of the new route that Alaska just announced.
Consumers will certainly be the winners here, as we now see two new transatlantic routes launched, one with two competitors.
What do you make of Delta’s European expansion from Seattle, and how do you see this all playing out?
@Ben also I don't think these flights are daily.
I believe it's 4x weekly FCO and 3x weekly BCN, which is what they said at the event today.
Offering both destinations DL may coincidentally corner the Mediterranean cruise market originating out of the Pacific Northwest. There are so many ships plying Barcelona-to-Civitavecchia (Rome) route. Having a non-stop open-jaw flight option would surely be enticing to those who value convenience over price.
you mean that DL might understand the European market better than a Seattle based niche regional airline that suddenly decided that calling someone's aunt (or grandmother) seemed like the basis for starting a new route?
Facetiously, SEA-FCO sounds like a TATL "battle" equivalent of SEA-TPE: going from zero to two carriers, whereas TPE route got suddenly four carriers up from lonely EVA...
Let's hope passengers are the winners here...
Okay Delta fanboy, keep your pants on.
Just a couple data-based fact checks for Tim Dunn:
1. DL is not larger than AS to the East Coast - 2025 Q1 DOT data - the passenger figures are rounded hence they look a little wonky while the %'s are actuals:
- SEA to NYC (JFK/EWR): 1) AS 84.6% (66k/78k) 2) DL 88.1% (46k/52k) 3) UA 85.8% (26k/30k)
- SEA to BOS: 1) AS: 88.3% (31k/35k) 2) DL: 81.4% (31k/38k)
- SEA...
Just a couple data-based fact checks for Tim Dunn:
1. DL is not larger than AS to the East Coast - 2025 Q1 DOT data - the passenger figures are rounded hence they look a little wonky while the %'s are actuals:
- SEA to NYC (JFK/EWR): 1) AS 84.6% (66k/78k) 2) DL 88.1% (46k/52k) 3) UA 85.8% (26k/30k)
- SEA to BOS: 1) AS: 88.3% (31k/35k) 2) DL: 81.4% (31k/38k)
- SEA to DC: 1) AS: 87.0% (44k/49k) 2) UA: 83.4% (13k/16k) 3) DL: 78.5% (13k/16k)
- SEA to ATL: 1) DL: 88.9% (80k/90k) 2) AS: 86.4% (23k/26k)
- SEA to FLL: 1) AS: 83.1% (23k/28k) 2) DL: 77.1% (13k/17k)
- SEA to MIA: 1) AS: 87.0% (15k/17k) 2) DL: 74.3% (13k/17k)
- SEA to MCO: 1) AS: 87.5% (49k/56k) 2) DL: 92.9% (26k/29k)
- SEA to TPA: 1) AS: 86.3% (27k/31k) 2) DL: 86.3% (13k/15k)
- SEA to RDU: 1) AS: 85.8% (13k/15k) 2): DL: 70.2% (10k/14k)
AS also flies to destinations DL does not serve from SEA such as BWI (13k), CHS (11k), PHL (16k), and PIT (6k).
AS is also larger than DL on SEA-Midwest since it is larger than DL at ORD (47k to 17k) and MCI (15k to 6k), smaller at DTW (48k to 11k) and MSP (57k to 24k), marginally smaller at CVG (11k to 9k), but serves CLE (11k), IND (12k), MKE (8k), OMA (10k), STL (17k), and CMH (10k) unlike DL.
Also note I did not factor AA into any of those figures.
2. DL's domestic performance at SEA
58% of DL's domestic routes at SEA had LFs of 80% or below. This was 26% for AS. Only 11 DL domestic routes from SEA had LFs higher than 85% vs 26 for AS
Based on Enilria and Crankyflier's data we know for a fact that DL does not get premium yields relative to the rest of its network. Almost all of its entire domestic network (95%) rates in the bottom 40% of its PRASM adjusted for stage length.
3. DL growth at SEA
DL's has a ~24% market share at SEA vs 52% for AS including intl. AS is 2.5x larger domestically (58% share to 24% share) and larger in regional intl to Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean. DL is larger long-haul, but the intl only market share at SEA in 2024 was 25% DL to 16% AS.
DL has not gained any market share domestically at SEA since 2019. DOT data on domestic market share:
- Mar '19 to Feb '20: AS (mainline): 42.75%; DL (mainline): 19.81%; Horizon (AS-only regional): 9.37% (note that SkyWest which is split between AS and DL had <6.2% share)
- Mar '24 to Feb '25: AS (mainline): 48.86%; DL (mainline): 19.74%; SkyWest (DL + AS regional): 7.06%; Horizon (AS-only regional): 6.16%
Bbbbbbbbbbbut Delta is so profitable! And has SUITES with DOORS!
"And has SUITES with DOORS!"
The doors obsession is really only one member here, and it isn't Tim. ;)
I'm still waiting for a single corporate or HVC to say that doors is a determinate thing for flight selection. Haven't heard that anywhere, throughout all the industry.
and your point is precisely WHAT?
We have listened for 10 years to how DL would fail at SEA, an endless supply of cherrypicked and manufactured data that "proves" how poorly DL is doing - and DL has clearly indicated that it isn't going anywhere and is, in fact, growing.
So, again, Jeremy, WTF is your point?
btw, REVENUE is what matters. Why don't you restate your numbers based on REVENUE, not passengers boarded....
and your point is precisely WHAT?
We have listened for 10 years to how DL would fail at SEA, an endless supply of cherrypicked and manufactured data that "proves" how poorly DL is doing - and DL has clearly indicated that it isn't going anywhere and is, in fact, growing.
So, again, Jeremy, WTF is your point?
btw, REVENUE is what matters. Why don't you restate your numbers based on REVENUE, not passengers boarded. DL gets a SIGNIFICANT revenue premium to AS per passenger boarded at SEA.
Tim arguing that Delta gets higher yield is really not relevant if the planes are much emptier. Yield does not equal RASM. And neither commenter brings up CASM, which Alaska also has a clear advantage on. If Delta gets higher yield on worse LFs (similar RASM?), but on much higher CASM (more premium configuration props up RASM at CASM expense), delta still loses.
To be fair, the winner in all this is the consumer. Delta...
Tim arguing that Delta gets higher yield is really not relevant if the planes are much emptier. Yield does not equal RASM. And neither commenter brings up CASM, which Alaska also has a clear advantage on. If Delta gets higher yield on worse LFs (similar RASM?), but on much higher CASM (more premium configuration props up RASM at CASM expense), delta still loses.
To be fair, the winner in all this is the consumer. Delta has subsidized Seattle passengers to the tune of a billion dollars over the past decade while forcing Alaska to offer lower prices as well. The consumer is the winner so we should all be cheering for delta to keep climbing or whatever it is their slogan is
The whole "Alaska has the most loyal following" in Seattle is so overblown. Having lived in Seattle for 17 years now, I can say that yes, there are a few dedicated Alaska fanboys out there, but the number is small. There are also some dedicated Delta flyers, like myself. And then there are the vast majority of people who fly the airline that is most convenient and affordable. Most people in the area end up...
The whole "Alaska has the most loyal following" in Seattle is so overblown. Having lived in Seattle for 17 years now, I can say that yes, there are a few dedicated Alaska fanboys out there, but the number is small. There are also some dedicated Delta flyers, like myself. And then there are the vast majority of people who fly the airline that is most convenient and affordable. Most people in the area end up flying Alaska more than Delta because they have more flights and nonstop options, not because they love the company that much.
For the Rome flights, Delta is going to have more frequent flights (daily rather than 4x weekly), a better J experience (suites with doors, new swanky lounge), and a better coach experience (2-4-2 vs 3-3-3 on the Hawaiian 787, plus the 787 coach seats are narrower and have less leg room). As long as they compete on price (which they will), Delta will do fine. A few more people in Seattle will sign up for their credit card, which is their ultimate goal.
Let's not forget that these are Hawaiian branded planes with Hawaiian crew flying on the international routes (for now). With only 4x weekly service, the people who are casually loyal to Alaska are not going to cut their Italian vacation short by a day so they can fly Hawaiian.
you can't say that!
logic and data are not allowed on these discussions.
and what percentage of Europeans are going to consider an airline named Alaska or Hawaiian? The peak of the US market to Europe lasts for a couple months. All DL has to do is sit on top of AS for those peak months and AS' ANNUAL profits are cratered.
Don't forget that, even before the HA acquisition, AS loses money at least one quarter per year.
Honestly, the main thing that powers Alaska is their mileage program. No single carrier in the US is that good.
It's hard to get people to switch over from one of the best programs to one of the least valuable programs in SkyMiles.
That being said, Delta didn't exist a decade ago at SEA, and have built up 25% market share somehow, those customers came from somewhere. It's not completely unfathomable for them to maintain...
Honestly, the main thing that powers Alaska is their mileage program. No single carrier in the US is that good.
It's hard to get people to switch over from one of the best programs to one of the least valuable programs in SkyMiles.
That being said, Delta didn't exist a decade ago at SEA, and have built up 25% market share somehow, those customers came from somewhere. It's not completely unfathomable for them to maintain or grow their market share.
Delta said at their event today, they are fully committed to growing SEA.
Lolololol I remember when Lucky joked that he wouldn't be surprised if DL magically adds SEA-FCO, someone said it was highly doubtful....the same person is now defending them
reread the VERY FIRST comment that was made to this article and it will be clear that you, not me, missed what was said.
I would far rather that DL would have announced a Pacific flight or two but they are clearly not going to give AS an inch of wiggle room in AS' goal of building a longhaul international operation in SEA.
As hard as it is for some to grasp, let alone accept,...
reread the VERY FIRST comment that was made to this article and it will be clear that you, not me, missed what was said.
I would far rather that DL would have announced a Pacific flight or two but they are clearly not going to give AS an inch of wiggle room in AS' goal of building a longhaul international operation in SEA.
As hard as it is for some to grasp, let alone accept, AS and DL have split the SEA market for the ten years that DL has had a hub there. AS has had the largest total domestic presence but DL was larger to the eastern US and had the longhaul international market.
AS decided - just as it did with the Virgin America merger - that they wanted to be bigger than their PNW domestic strengths - and DL, just as UA did 10 years ago, has decided to challenge AS' ambitions.
DL doesn't need my defense or my advise. They clearly decided that they could make money flying from the PNW to Southern Europe, something that only BOS, JFK, ATL and DTW get the pleasure of doing on DL's system. SEA will be the 6th hub for DL service to FCO while SEA becomes BCN's 4th hub destination.
DL generated $1.1 billion in profits flying the Atlantic in 2024, 32% more than UA did even though UA was larger. DL knows what it is doing on its international network.
and, HA's TPAC system lost $20 million in the first quarter of 2025 which was more than cut in half from the previous year, proving that AS is cutting SOME of the money-losing HA flights. But HA also lost money on its domestic system and AS lost money on its domestic system and to Latin America and, of course, on the bottom line - which is where it counts.
AS really is not in any position to be getting into any market share battles with anyone. They weren't after the Virgin America acquisition and they won't be now.
DL is obviously making it clear they won't cede any part of the longhaul international market at SEA to AS.
@Tim Dunn--with all due respect, you commented on Lucky's report on AS's Rome announcement that there was absolutely no way DL would ever duplicate the SEA-FCO route. I responded that it might be low probability but I was sure it was being considered. It turns out we were both wrong--it was 100% probability!
I think your new stance--that DL doesn't want to cede one inch on international long haul, its real strength at SEA, to...
@Tim Dunn--with all due respect, you commented on Lucky's report on AS's Rome announcement that there was absolutely no way DL would ever duplicate the SEA-FCO route. I responded that it might be low probability but I was sure it was being considered. It turns out we were both wrong--it was 100% probability!
I think your new stance--that DL doesn't want to cede one inch on international long haul, its real strength at SEA, to AS is absolutely correct. DL essentially said "see you and raise you" today. They "raised" in a couple of ways:
1. Daily service to FCO as opposed to AS's 4 times weekly
2. A preemptive strike on the new route to BCN, someplace I think AS has also been considering
3. DL timed today's announcement with the opening of 2 new Sky Clubs at SEA today. They used to have 2 clubs before but closed the S satellite club during the pandemic. One of the new clubs is a new DeltaOne Lounge and they already have a separate D1 check-in area. The VP for Seattle points out that they face a lot of competition at JFK, BOS, and SEA and are used to that level of competition.
I agree with Lucky that only time will tell how well these new routes perform. I would point out that no one (myself included) believed that 4 carriers to TPE could prosper but so far, they all seem to be doing OK. There seems to be a bigger drop in travel to the entire USA from Europe than from Asia, which could affect these routes, and if going to BCN, I might have to pack a squirt gun for self defense, given recent protests-- but we shall see. For now, I am just happy to see new nonstops and on the Rome route, at least the possibility of decent fares.
Looks like an A330-200 with a brand new three-class cabin to Rome will likely result in a much higher low factor than a much larger A350 or Boeing 787.
The other benefit of the A330-200 is the depreciation value is already factored in and would be substantially less than burning up air miles using a half full larger aircraft, until the route matures for both carriers to succeed profitably.
Delta is flying a 330-900 which is actually DL's youngest widebody fleet type. They are receiving the last 3 of their 339 order this summer and then a half dozen of them will come off the Pacific over the next year -most already have - which is why DL has growth capacity over the Atlantic on top of new 359 deliveries.
AS and DL's ownership costs will be comparable. DL will have far higher revenue...
Delta is flying a 330-900 which is actually DL's youngest widebody fleet type. They are receiving the last 3 of their 339 order this summer and then a half dozen of them will come off the Pacific over the next year -most already have - which is why DL has growth capacity over the Atlantic on top of new 359 deliveries.
AS and DL's ownership costs will be comparable. DL will have far higher revenue generating capacity solely on the basis of having more premium seats between Delta One and Premium Select.
By this logic La Compagnie should be the most profitable airline on earth. Like, why even offer economy?
I'm guessing here, thinking that HA employees will work HA fights, while AS works AS flights. There will be a learning curve for AS F/A's as they have no experience working 10-12 hours international routes. Different level of service is required. US Airways never learned that, and one sees that on American now.
I never understand why the travel press and bloggers obsess over who will "retreat" from a market given profitability concerns.
American goes through cycles of "retreating" from NYC and then saying they want to compete. When they retreat, bloggers complain that there is not enough competition in NYC.
Here, we have two airlines battling it out in Seattle, and consumers can only benefit. Let's hope Alaska and Delta battle it out in Seattle indefinitely, and...
I never understand why the travel press and bloggers obsess over who will "retreat" from a market given profitability concerns.
American goes through cycles of "retreating" from NYC and then saying they want to compete. When they retreat, bloggers complain that there is not enough competition in NYC.
Here, we have two airlines battling it out in Seattle, and consumers can only benefit. Let's hope Alaska and Delta battle it out in Seattle indefinitely, and offer consumers good routing and good pricing from the airport. Rome and Barcelona are two extremely popular destinations, so it makes sense Delta would offer flights to these cities from one of their hubs. As of now, they only fly to these cities from the east - Seattle is as good of a choice as any for West coast flights.
"American goes through cycles of "retreating" from NYC and then saying they want to compete. When they retreat, bloggers complain that there is not enough competition in NYC."
It's a common view, but AA has never once lost a slot in LGA or JFK.
'
Great time to go to Southern Europe from Juneau and Fairbanks next year
"A has never once lost a slot in LGA or JFK."
"In 2019, the Federal Aviation Administration reclaimed seven [JFK] slots from American Airlines, chief commercial officer Vasu Raja confirmed in U.S. District Court in Boston on Friday, after an audit found that American was underutilizing the coveted use-it-or-lose-it spots."
There's a bit more to that...
just admit you are wrong, Max.
AA HAS lost slots at LGA and JFK and the whole NEA was a failed attempt to meet the FAA's slot usage requirements that AA had failed to abide by for years.
hi tim. They haven't but that isn't a post for this forum.
Stick to what you know.
Your statement is categorically, false, max.
Instead of doubling down on attacking others, just admit you are wrong or walk away
American has most certainly lost and under utilizedslots at New York City airports
Enjoy your ignorance
Like I said, not a topic for this forum
And I won’t be taking any idiocy from you about admitting when you’re wrong
But thanks
IOW, you don't want to admit that you were wrong and there were "extenuating circumstances" that justify your bloviating.
you were wrong and I wasn't even the first person to shove it in your face.
"Delta has steadily been growing its presence in Seattle for roughly a decade now..."
Not exactly. Delta's interest in Seattle comes and goes, and the number of flights they have follows their waxing and waning interest.
As you correctly pointed out, Delta is prone to cutting routes and could easily walk away from the region. Alaska is here to stay. Everybody knows this (even you-know-who).
Alaska has made it clear they plan to continue to...
"Delta has steadily been growing its presence in Seattle for roughly a decade now..."
Not exactly. Delta's interest in Seattle comes and goes, and the number of flights they have follows their waxing and waning interest.
As you correctly pointed out, Delta is prone to cutting routes and could easily walk away from the region. Alaska is here to stay. Everybody knows this (even you-know-who).
Alaska has made it clear they plan to continue to expand aggressively. Barcelona was a pretty easy call (as would be Madrid, too). I'm guessing Alaska will soon counter this by announcing Madrid, and up the ante with Lisbon and Athens, too.
Alaska is constrained by 787 delivery schedule (unless they decide to steal some A330s from Hawaii flying). Given they already have 3 SEA routes planned for next summer (ICN, NRT, FCO) I'd be surprised if they added any more for 2026. I'm guessing Delta thinks that by adding BCN they can get a jumpstart and prevent Alaska from adding it in 2027. As for FCO, maybe Alaska makes it daily instead of 4x weekly now but it's hard to say.
Dick,
feel free to post AS and DL's average number of flights at SEA over the past decade in which they have had competitive hubs at SEA.
If you did, you would see that DL HAS NOT retreated. It has dropped some markets and added others - just as all airlines do.
In fact, I can assure you that DL is flying a higher percentage of its network from 10 years ago than AS is.
Dick,
feel free to post AS and DL's average number of flights at SEA over the past decade in which they have had competitive hubs at SEA.
If you did, you would see that DL HAS NOT retreated. It has dropped some markets and added others - just as all airlines do.
In fact, I can assure you that DL is flying a higher percentage of its network from 10 years ago than AS is.
AS walked away from huge amounts of its Virgin America acquired network.
DL is the only one of the megacarriers that has opened MULTIPLE hubs in other airline strength markets/hubs over just the past 10 years - BOS and SEA. DL's lead over B6 at both JFK and BOS continues to grow.
And they displaced AA as the largest carrier at LAX and 2nd largest at AUS.
and remember that the A330-900s to fly these two new routes are coming off of DL's SEA-Asia network as the ex-Latam A350-900s become the growth TPAC capacity DL needed to offer an even larger network from SEA.
Spare us the bias and deal w/ facts.
(Quietly laughing) But, Yay for Barcelona and that's all I will say!
Alaska should bluff and announce that it is adding flights to Madrid and see if Delta will copy.
Pretty sure that won't be a bluff when they do announce it. Now if they announce Paris & Amsterdam.
People need to remember Delta makes money through the SkyMiles loyalty programme, not flying.
SEA MSA has the 4th highest per capita GDP in the US, they are selling millions of dollars of SkyMiles to Amex thanks to their partnership. The SkyClub/D1 lounge/Centurion lounge are the top 3 lounges at SEA and always have long lines out of them.
Delta also put the following into its press release
"Delta has secured priority access to 18 gates across Concourses A and B"
which might mean that DL is beating AS to the punch of trying to gain access to more gates by using more widebodies since SEA allocates gates in a formula that favors widebodies.
anyone that thought that DL was going to lay down and not fight for SEA clearly doesn't know Delta.
nobody thought they were going down without a fight lol they've been proudly bleeding money in SEA for a full decade now. Never back down!!!
feel free to provide evidence that DL is bleeding money.
You can't because there is no evidence.
and if DL can manage to "bleed money" in SEA and still be the highest revenue and highest market cap airline in the world, then it would seem that AS has a pretty high uphill battle on its hands.
Again, AS has a history of acquiring an airline with the expectation that they would take on a...
feel free to provide evidence that DL is bleeding money.
You can't because there is no evidence.
and if DL can manage to "bleed money" in SEA and still be the highest revenue and highest market cap airline in the world, then it would seem that AS has a pretty high uphill battle on its hands.
Again, AS has a history of acquiring an airline with the expectation that they would take on a much larger competitor and United handedly dismantled AS' position in SFO and AA and DL did the same thing in LAX along with UA.
Let's see how this all plays out but AS and DL had their "sides" of the SEA market and it is AS that decided it wanted to move the line; DL has no intention of rolling over and letting AS gain anything.
now, if only AS would point one of their 787s to SIN
Genuinely curious Tim - what’s stopping delta from adding SEA-SIN, they clearly have the capabilities to make the route work
What's stopping Delta from flying SEA-SIN is exactly what will stop Alaska from doing so: Singapore Airlines already flies the route 4 times weekly, using an A350. Neither AS nor DL can compete with Singapore for service.
Delta has retreated from SEA before. They're out-of-towners with no real commitment to the region.
I believe delta is pulling out of the s concourse as a result of the a and b gates transition. I know both would like more gates but SeaTac is packed until they do the north terminal expansion which is years away even from ground breaking
S will become international airlines and some cats and dogs. A concourse will be all delta and maybe some skyteam partners. B will have delta united and southwest....
I believe delta is pulling out of the s concourse as a result of the a and b gates transition. I know both would like more gates but SeaTac is packed until they do the north terminal expansion which is years away even from ground breaking
S will become international airlines and some cats and dogs. A concourse will be all delta and maybe some skyteam partners. B will have delta united and southwest. Alaska continues to have all of c and n and shares d with American. How Alaska handles international will be interesting as Alaska has one wide body gate. So your going to see a lot more Alaska out of s concourse
day 294,290,592 of asking for Singapore
Standing by for that a350-1k
Why would Delta do that, when Seattle-Singapore is a comparatively tiny local market, which Singapore Airlines is both already on, and has feed on both ends?
If they're going to jump into a competitive market like that, they'd be far better off attempting to tap LAX, which has far more demand despite Singapore's sometimes-3 flights per day.
Genuinely surprised by this move by them. It seems like DL could have an avenue to make Seattle work as a two-airline international hub, where AS potentially focuses more on leisure destinations like FCO while DL focuses on traditional business markets like LHR. By adding FCO and BCN they're making it clear they intend to crowd Alaska out... and in Seattle I don't think that's a possibility. If the market truly is only big enough...
Genuinely surprised by this move by them. It seems like DL could have an avenue to make Seattle work as a two-airline international hub, where AS potentially focuses more on leisure destinations like FCO while DL focuses on traditional business markets like LHR. By adding FCO and BCN they're making it clear they intend to crowd Alaska out... and in Seattle I don't think that's a possibility. If the market truly is only big enough for one international hub, it seems incredibly likely that Alaska would win out in the long run (in SEA). Hard to not let emotions get the best of you but I thought Delta's network planning group was a little wiser than this.
"it seems incredibly likely that Alaska would win out in the long run (in SEA)."
Based on what?
Alaska has almost no experience on longhaul, even less brand recognition on other continents, and nowhere near the same amount of money to burn in a protracted war.
Having more domestic frequencies in Seattle doesn't really do much to counteract all of the above.
While I think it SEA is not a great choice for adding flights to Asia, it is clear that DL has no intention or ceding an inch of market to AS.
DL has airplanes in its fleet now that offer far higher levels of service than AS will be able to come up with.
and now the Delta One lounge and two SkyClubs.
and the whole notion of how much larger AS is in SEA...
While I think it SEA is not a great choice for adding flights to Asia, it is clear that DL has no intention or ceding an inch of market to AS.
DL has airplanes in its fleet now that offer far higher levels of service than AS will be able to come up with.
and now the Delta One lounge and two SkyClubs.
and the whole notion of how much larger AS is in SEA is ignorant of how airline networks work.
AS flies more frequencies to many of the same destinations DL serves and yet only one domestic flight for each destination connects best to each international flight.
AS' service to CMH and PIT doesn't add one iota of advantage to them in getting more revenue to Europe.
correction
While I think it SEA is not a great choice for adding flights to Europe but rather is best suited for Asia...
Tim Dunn is not a popular guy here but he is right. Alaska is more suited to expansion in Asia.
Kaohsiung, Hong Kong, Singapore, Sydney, Osaka are all better.
If Alaska insists on Europe, there's still time to move the Rome flight to Madrid, Duesseldorf, Zurich, or Gatwick.
Sorry, @Derek, but I just don't agree, except for SYD. There are already 4 daily flights to Taiwan. DL used to fly SEA to KIX and HKG and ended up pulling out of both markets. Southern Europe makes more sense to me as these are seriously underserved markets. If you are thinking they won't get connecting traffic from points very far east, I agree. I would just point out these flights don't need that to...
Sorry, @Derek, but I just don't agree, except for SYD. There are already 4 daily flights to Taiwan. DL used to fly SEA to KIX and HKG and ended up pulling out of both markets. Southern Europe makes more sense to me as these are seriously underserved markets. If you are thinking they won't get connecting traffic from points very far east, I agree. I would just point out these flights don't need that to survive. The combined population of the Vancouver (BC), Portland (OR), and Seattle areas is more than 9 million.
How can you possibly quantify "one flight for each destination connects best to each int'l flight"? One pax's ideal connect time is 1h30m and another's is 4h. As the post says, more choice is good for the consumer.
Using CMH and PIT as your 'random' examples almost seems like a bad faith attempt to ignore AS's commitment to places like WRG, FAI, and others that drives their brand loyalty to begin with.
Network advantage is a piece of it but loyalty is equally big if not bigger. There's only so many cities that flow into SEA that can't also flow through SLC or SFO or anywhere else with reasonable schedules. What it will come down to is who do customers prefer (in Seattle there's a clear answer).
and yet not a single person has presented facts that show that AS has a loyalty advantage per passenger.
In fact, data shows that DL gets more revenue per passenger from the SEA local market in part because of DL's larger size in the eastern US as well as its international reach.
No, there really is not a clear winner. AS has had an advantage in the domestic market BECAUSE OF SIZE in...
and yet not a single person has presented facts that show that AS has a loyalty advantage per passenger.
In fact, data shows that DL gets more revenue per passenger from the SEA local market in part because of DL's larger size in the eastern US as well as its international reach.
No, there really is not a clear winner. AS has had an advantage in the domestic market BECAUSE OF SIZE in the markets they serve.
AS simply does not have an advantage in the markets where DL has its strengths and that is not what DL is willing to give up no matter how much AS wants to fight for that place.
Let's not forget that AS had grandiose expectations with the Virgin America acquisition and ten years later the network they have in California is a shadow of itself. United won that battle. AS decided to take on DL in SEA with international and I will predict that the expectations of success that many have for AS will come crashing down.
AS acquiring VX was somewhat of a defensive move. They also wanted to diversify and "do to United in SFO what Delta did to Alaska in Seattle". Turns out that just means to lose money, and AS (better late than never) realized it wasn't worth it.
What it really all boils down to is that being #1 in a metro area is the golden ticket. If you're #2 you're not willing on loyalty, you're not...
AS acquiring VX was somewhat of a defensive move. They also wanted to diversify and "do to United in SFO what Delta did to Alaska in Seattle". Turns out that just means to lose money, and AS (better late than never) realized it wasn't worth it.
What it really all boils down to is that being #1 in a metro area is the golden ticket. If you're #2 you're not willing on loyalty, you're not getting lucrative corporate deals, you're not commanding a revenue premium. AA has learned this lesson over and over, Alaska learned it in SFO, etc... Delta only has 1 hub where they aren't #1 and it's Seattle. That's why SEA so dramatically underperforms the rest of their network. Even NYC is basically split into two kingdoms with United owning EWR. If you have to compete and be #2, you're not long for this world.
I've never understand how/why you think Delta being #2 in SEA is actually OK for them when all the evidence points otherwise
"and the whole notion of how much larger AS is in SEA is ignorant of how airline networks work.
AS flies more frequencies to many of the same destinations DL serves and yet only one domestic flight for each destination connects best to each international flight."
Tim, it actually sounds like you have no idea how ignorant you are about how airline networks work. Perhaps stick to what you know.
Alaska serves more than double the amount of cities from SEA as Delta does? Which to be fair, if Alaska has an advantage connecting SBP-SEA-FCO compared to Delta (who doesn't serve SBP from SEA), that's not a totally fair comparison because Alaska would also be competing against United's SBP-SFO-FCO routing or other similar routings. But it does totally make a difference on how SEA-FCO specifically performs if multiple carriers are offering it. You need as...
Alaska serves more than double the amount of cities from SEA as Delta does? Which to be fair, if Alaska has an advantage connecting SBP-SEA-FCO compared to Delta (who doesn't serve SBP from SEA), that's not a totally fair comparison because Alaska would also be competing against United's SBP-SFO-FCO routing or other similar routings. But it does totally make a difference on how SEA-FCO specifically performs if multiple carriers are offering it. You need as wide of a tent as possible, and Alaska's is a lot lot wider. But to Tim's point, yes Alaska also does offer way more frequencies which bolsters the loyalty case too :)
and DL has far more experience and size not just to FCO and BCN but to Tokyo and ICN and every other destination which AS might choose to start longhaul service on.
DL has multiple hubs. They can and will route traffic on whatever flights are needed to achieve their goals.
and it isn't even a given that the new SEA flights will be a net increase in capacity for DL to those cities...
and DL has far more experience and size not just to FCO and BCN but to Tokyo and ICN and every other destination which AS might choose to start longhaul service on.
DL has multiple hubs. They can and will route traffic on whatever flights are needed to achieve their goals.
and it isn't even a given that the new SEA flights will be a net increase in capacity for DL to those cities - they could reallocate some of the capacity from ATL or JFK - which have double daily service at least some days of some of the year.
Carrying the most passengers does not equate to loyalty. Delta has the loyalty in the SEA international market.
and your point about UA also highlights that UA added DEN-FCO; DL could be just as interested in choking off UA's ability to grow as they are AS'