It’s common for airlines to oversell flights, and in some cases, they then need to find people to take alternative flights. Airlines first need to solicit volunteers, and they’ll typically offer some sort of travel credit or voucher to get people to agree to volunteer. When an airline simply solicits volunteers, I’d consider it to be a win-win, since everyone is happy with the arrangement.
However, Elliott Report has the story of a voluntary denied boarding that turned sour, and I can understand the customer’s frustration…
In this post:
Delta backtracks on denied boarding compensation
A Delta Gold Medallion member was traveling from Salt Lake City (SLC) to Palm Springs (PSP) with his wife and infant daughter. Once onboard the aircraft, an announcement was made that one volunteer was needed — the announcement was allegedly that “Delta is looking for one volunteer to give up their seat in exchange for $15,000.”
The man immediately pressed his call button, confirmed the amount being offered twice (the flight attendant even reportedly checked with a gate agent), and then disembarked, leaving his wife and infant onboard.
But by the time the aircraft pushed back and started taxiing (without him onboard), the gate agent and supervisor informed him that the offer was actually for $1,500. The passenger claims he was accused of lying about the $15,000 promise, as the ground staff acted as if he made that up.
As the traveler explains, “they treated me like I’d invented the number out of thin air, but the flight attendant, the captain, and even Delta’s own emails later admitted the $15,000 offer was real.”
When he protested at the airport, he was told to file a complaint and contact customer service, but says he “felt humiliated” — “I’d just abandoned my wife and baby based on Delta’s word, now they were gaslighting me.”
In email communication after the fact, the airline acknowledged that the $15,000 number was “unintentionally” shared, but refused to honor it.
Also in email communication, the airline claimed that onboard announcements are recorded, and promised a resolution (which is a strange claim, because onboard announcements definitely aren’t recorded in that way). However, weeks later Delta came back with its best offer — the $1,500 in vouchers already offered, plus 20,000 SkyMiles.
As the email from Delta explained, “we kindly ask that you accept our decision and refrain from further requests,” and “please be advised our answer will remain the same and continued requests will not yield a different outcome.”
My take on this Delta denied boarding frustration
I can completely understand this passenger’s frustration. I’m sure the couple made the decision to split up because of the $15,000 offer, while they may not have done so for $1,500. And it’s especially unfortunate that by the time the passenger learned about the real amount, the plane was already gone, and the mistake couldn’t be undone.
In recent years, we’ve seen reports of some absolutely massive voluntary denied boarding compensation amounts, particularly at Delta. I’ve seen the numbers go as high as $10,000, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of an amount higher than that.
I would’ve certainly been skeptical about the $15,000 amount. At the same time, if you actually double check with staff and they insist that it’s correct, then it seems like you did your due diligence, and should expect the airline to honor its commitment.
Certainly the right thing to do here would be to honor the amount promised, especially since Delta acknowledged that $15,000 amount was “unintentionally” shared. Presumably there would be a legal case for pursuing the amount that was promised. But whether that’s actually worth doing is a different story.
Bottom line
A Delta flight from Salt Lake City to Palm Springs was overbooked, and the airline needed one volunteer. The flight attendant reportedly announced an offer for $15,000, which a husband and father immediately took advantage of, after verifying that the amount was correct, leaving his wife and infant behind.
However, once in the terminal, after the aircraft departed, the gate agents informed him that the offer was $1,500, rather than $15,000. Initially they reportedly gaslighted him and pretended that amount was never offered, but in subsequent communication, the airline acknowledged that the amount was “unintentionally” shared.
Delta was unwilling to honor the offer, but did end up throwing in an extra 20,000 Delta SkyMiles.
What do you make of this Delta denied boarding situation?
This story is very confusing….
The airport team (Gate Agent/Redcoat) would make any announcement over the aircraft PA requesting a volunteer and manage the compensation offer and any questions. So why were the Flight Attendant and Pilot involved where they are corroborating the passengers side?
Did the Airport team make the announcement and then run off the plane requiring the Flight Attendant or Pilot to act as a middleman to relay communications back and...
This story is very confusing….
The airport team (Gate Agent/Redcoat) would make any announcement over the aircraft PA requesting a volunteer and manage the compensation offer and any questions. So why were the Flight Attendant and Pilot involved where they are corroborating the passengers side?
Did the Airport team make the announcement and then run off the plane requiring the Flight Attendant or Pilot to act as a middleman to relay communications back and forth between the passenger and airport team? Heck, why would the Pilot be involved at all with compensation questions? Why wasn’t the airport team member communicating directly with the passenger to answer their questions about the dollar amount?
I am not a lawyer, so take my comments with a grain of salt. The attorneys who noted that retaining counsel would likely cost more than the $15,000 at issue are correct. However, rather than accepting Delta’s offer of $1,500 plus 20,000 miles—which have minimal marginal cost to the airline—I would pursue the matter in small claims court. Even in states with relatively low small-claims limits (typically $2,500–$3,000), the potential recovery would exceed the value...
I am not a lawyer, so take my comments with a grain of salt. The attorneys who noted that retaining counsel would likely cost more than the $15,000 at issue are correct. However, rather than accepting Delta’s offer of $1,500 plus 20,000 miles—which have minimal marginal cost to the airline—I would pursue the matter in small claims court. Even in states with relatively low small-claims limits (typically $2,500–$3,000), the potential recovery would exceed the value of Delta’s offer. Because Delta operates and maintains offices at the airports it serves, you may be able to file suit in the state of either departure or arrival, subject to that state’s jurisdictional rules. For reference, California’s small claims limit is $12,500, and Utah’s is $20,000.
Delta is falling apart. They did't honor their word to elite customers. Now they are canceling numerous flights and stranding customers during the holidays. Delta is a repeat offender of screwing holiday passengers.
Well now Ben.
I predicted that this click-bait Delta article would net you 100 clicks. I am please for you that the click rate has exceeded that number. As one can observe from the trolling posts, they simply luv Tim’s posts and provide you with innumerable clicks for your website income stream.
To even think of banning Tim, would simply be cutting off your nose to spite your face, yes?
Well now Ben.
I predicted that this click-bait Delta article would net you 100 clicks. I am please for you that the click rate has exceeded that number. As one can observe from the trolling posts, they simply luv Tim’s posts and provide you with innumerable clicks for your website income stream.
To even think of banning Tim, would simply be cutting off your nose to spite your face, yes?
Actually for a flight like this . I won't expect a huge compensation like this. Usually don't airlines start with a smaller number and keep increasing it until someone volunteers. Why would they say 15k right off the bat. Something doesn't make sense.
Since there was nothing in writing it could be argued either way.
Yeah and Delta’s not going to waste time or money arguing it.
Why do you repeat and summarize your comments several times in your short write ups. It is poor writing and gets tiring to read.
For at least 6 months no passenger accept anything voluntarily. Not at gate. Not onboard. All denied boardings would have top be forced ones. Airlines admits they said A, but give B. So whatever they promise going forward, can never be trusted.
He should have recorded the conversation.
We all have what Tim Dunn has written.
It's still not enough to prove to himself how irrelevant his statements are.
…. and what makes you think that your statements are anymore relevant Eskimo?
You troll Tim and others, therefore, I will take pleasure in trolling you in return. You poor demented creature …. YES?
Holy…for the love of God Ben, please get rid of Tim already.
it truly is irritating to have someone keep shooting down people's statements only for those other people to fail to demonstrate that they have successfully done what they have said they can do in this exact type of situation.
I've sued an airline for breach of contract and won.
Let's start with that since its proof that airlines are not immune from lawsuits.
Wake up Gva! Tim provides Ben, with clicks, clicks equal cents, cents equal points and points equal flights, flights equal reviews and reviews equal education for the readers ….. get it now, yes?
God…
Imagine waking up Christmas morning to write a ten point defense of delta screwing a customer, most of which has no relevance to the actual article.
I used to joke that you have no family or friends, tim. Given your rants on Christmas Eve and today… seems rather obvious you don’t have friends and family.
Say hi to your fake wife for all of us.
Imagine the hypocrisy of waking up on Christmas morning and going to OMAAT and posting someone only to criticize them while excusing your own behavior.
Your hypocrisy is pathological, Max, no matter how many user names you post under.
All you or anyone else has to do if you don't want to hear from me or anyone is not respond to or comment about me or the things that I will respond to.
but you...
Imagine the hypocrisy of waking up on Christmas morning and going to OMAAT and posting someone only to criticize them while excusing your own behavior.
Your hypocrisy is pathological, Max, no matter how many user names you post under.
All you or anyone else has to do if you don't want to hear from me or anyone is not respond to or comment about me or the things that I will respond to.
but you have proven over and over that you and Kathy or whatever fake usernames you want to use cannot control yourself - which puts him completely in control.
Tell Kathy that this site is not operated by a.net. Ben is clearly not moved by what happened over there.
and the worst part about you bringing up the AA bankruptcy is to highlight that WorldTraveler was absolutely right that AA would end up in chapter 11.
In other words, you can't stand that I was right then, am right now, and want to do whatever you can to end my ability to be right in the future and talk about it.
There simply was no contract based on a presumed misstatement; an employee cannot make a contract for a company that they are not authorized to make.
If the guy was so upset w/ the voluntary DB that was proposed for him, he could have refused to get off the aircraft and not accept the offer.
But he clearly did get off and then decided to renege on the contract he accepted.
It is no surprise that you don't get it but it is amazing that all of these supposed lawyer types can't understand the difference between a contract that was accepted and the fantasy that the guy entertained of a 10 fold payout.
Spare us the lectures, Max and your split personality, Kathy.
If you want to enjoy Christmas go do it and let others do the way they want to as well.
and, Christmas Day or not, recognize that you are almost always in way over your head on the discussions you engage in and that has been proven true yet again.
Thank you for the 13 paragraph response as proof to what I wrote.
I’m not Kathy or anyone else in this comment section besides myself, sorry to disappoint you.
and I haven’t read all 162 other comments on here to know or care what she said. It was Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. I don’t pretend to fake wife. I have family and friends I was with.
Get a life
But also
Maybe you shouldn’t have your entire life revolve around an article comment section if you have so little backbone as to get offended by anonymous users?
It is beyond pathetic that you ridicule someone else only to do the very same thing; if Christmas isn't special to someone else so they can spend time commenting here, then why are you here?
Talking about anonymous and fake users is beyond hypocritical when that is precisely the role you play in aviation social media.
It is abundantly clear that you can't stand that someone else can accurately and articulately talk about the...
It is beyond pathetic that you ridicule someone else only to do the very same thing; if Christmas isn't special to someone else so they can spend time commenting here, then why are you here?
Talking about anonymous and fake users is beyond hypocritical when that is precisely the role you play in aviation social media.
It is abundantly clear that you can't stand that someone else can accurately and articulately talk about the airline industry and you want to control the narrative.
Aren't you capable of seeing that neither Ben or any other site owner wants to have someone else control the narrative or tell users when they should participate on their sites?
I had an absolutely lovely Christmas Eve and Day, Max, centered around faith, family, food and flying. and I still had time to spend some time on the internet, debating people as I love to do every other day of the year.
How about you recognize that you have completely failed in years of trying to shut me up or get site operators like Ben to shut me up?
oh look. another 6 paragraphs from you, tim.
Perhaps in your weird little mind, you view your incessant and nonstop rants and replies to everyone in these comments as the same as someone mentioning "Hey Tim, stop commenting on Christmas Eve or Christmas day and pretend like you're not a loser".
Hypocrisy? You don't understand the meaning of the word, Tim.
"I had an absolutely lovely Christmas Eve and Day, Max, centered around...
oh look. another 6 paragraphs from you, tim.
Perhaps in your weird little mind, you view your incessant and nonstop rants and replies to everyone in these comments as the same as someone mentioning "Hey Tim, stop commenting on Christmas Eve or Christmas day and pretend like you're not a loser".
Hypocrisy? You don't understand the meaning of the word, Tim.
"I had an absolutely lovely Christmas Eve and Day, Max, centered around faith, family, food and flying. and I still had time to spend some time on the internet, "
You spent your day on the internet lol. Don't pretend otherwise.
Move along now. You've embarrassed yourself enough with your paranoid accusations of everyone in this comment section being me lol. That was funny enough to read much less the amusement that I live in your head to that ridiculous degree. Get some self respect for yourself. No airline is perfect, certainly not Delta. The sooner you realize that, the more mentally sound you'll appear to others, to include your fake family.
"Aren't you capable of seeing that neither Ben or any other site owner wants to have someone else control the narrative or tell users when they should participate on their sites?"
Oh... and yes. I'm capable. I've never been banned on this site or another, Tim. Are you? :)
"Talking about anonymous and fake users is beyond hypocritical when that is precisely the role you play in aviation social media."
I really do live...
"Aren't you capable of seeing that neither Ben or any other site owner wants to have someone else control the narrative or tell users when they should participate on their sites?"
Oh... and yes. I'm capable. I've never been banned on this site or another, Tim. Are you? :)
"Talking about anonymous and fake users is beyond hypocritical when that is precisely the role you play in aviation social media."
I really do live in your little imaginary airline playground. I guess I'm the puppet master in all this? The only one capable of noticing how mentally deranged you are? Get a grip with reality, buddy. This is getting sad. The most tragic part is everyone else can see how deranged you are, but you choose to assume EVERYONE else is just me...
Amusing, but sad.
Tim Dunn lost his support in the comments by the largest margin in the history of OMAAT for a registered member. The people of OMAAT are really smart! He is a low IQ liar that, as a member of airlines.net, and WAS DESTROYED & DELETED from the site including all documents, information, and comments. His alter ego was a leader of the ridiculous journey into the Anti-AA merger/US Airways advocacy, where Trillions of Dollars were...
Tim Dunn lost his support in the comments by the largest margin in the history of OMAAT for a registered member. The people of OMAAT are really smart! He is a low IQ liar that, as a member of airlines.net, and WAS DESTROYED & DELETED from the site including all documents, information, and comments. His alter ego was a leader of the ridiculous journey into the Anti-AA merger/US Airways advocacy, where Trillions of Dollars were spent - and for what? NOTHING! Well, today, these two fools, because OMAAT no longer wants them, endorsed the most worst airline in the World, further than even Liddle Eskimo or Crazy Icarus - Lyin’ Steve. What a pathetic individual he is, both suffering gravely from Widget Derangement Syndrome.
Wait…. There are registered members? Where does one go to register?
Liddle Tim "Tom "Tiny D" Dunn has completely lost his mind now.
Settle down and enjoy Christmas!!!!!
Hopefully Tim is representing DL when these folks sue and go to court. The judge may fall out of his chair laughing. I mean, really, Tim? According to Tim, in summary: Delta is a business; sometimes businesses lie when it is convenient for them; so no biggie. Glen Hauenstein is applauding now.
no, Gene, DL wouldn't win a case - even if it was taken to court - by using the excuse that "we are a business"
They would win - if the case even went to court - because they could and would say that their agent is not and never was authorized to execute a contract in the amount the agent offered. If the agent of a company cannot execute the contract in the form...
no, Gene, DL wouldn't win a case - even if it was taken to court - by using the excuse that "we are a business"
They would win - if the case even went to court - because they could and would say that their agent is not and never was authorized to execute a contract in the amount the agent offered. If the agent of a company cannot execute the contract in the form they offered, there is not and cannot be a contract no matter how hard it is for you or any of the lawyer wannabees want to believe.
Surely you have dealt w/ a car salesman/woman before. you can negotiate all you want but until you sign the contract - which involves getting approval from their manager - you don't have a sale or a contract.
and, there is no evidence that the agent lied. It is possible that they misspoke and admitted to it to a supervisor. FIFTEEN HUNDRED vs. FIFTEEN THOUSAND is a believable mistake and, in this context, very possibly what happened.
I'm glad you took the time to put another penny in Ben's pocket; surely now you have some presents to open or give
Tim "Tom" "Tiny D" Dunn fired off some inaccurate facts, which disturbed some of my people, and others, but not me. I have confidence that MaxPower will keep his promise to me and continue to call him out, &, also smiled when he called Swampman Tom Dumm a low IQ individual, &, worse. Perhaps that’s sending me a signal?
This is flat out wrong. Airline flight attendants are absolutely agents of the Company. And under the law (which Tim the troll has shown he is not an expert in), it doesn't matter if the agent was authorized by delta or not, only whether they were enabled to portray themselves as one, which they were by being entitled to offer up the number.
Unless a court found that the 15K was an unconscionable number...
This is flat out wrong. Airline flight attendants are absolutely agents of the Company. And under the law (which Tim the troll has shown he is not an expert in), it doesn't matter if the agent was authorized by delta or not, only whether they were enabled to portray themselves as one, which they were by being entitled to offer up the number.
Unless a court found that the 15K was an unconscionable number no rational person could ever believe was real, this would be enforced. Question is whether its worth the court costs for the additional 13K.
Flight attendants are agents of the company to perform certain functions - but are not authorized for certain functions.
Gate agents can negotiate denied boarding compensation but may or may not be able to execute the agreement.
If the guy managed to get the gate agent to issue the $15k DB compensation, then the agent clearly was authorized to do so.
The fact that a 2nd employee was brought in says the agent could not...
Flight attendants are agents of the company to perform certain functions - but are not authorized for certain functions.
Gate agents can negotiate denied boarding compensation but may or may not be able to execute the agreement.
If the guy managed to get the gate agent to issue the $15k DB compensation, then the agent clearly was authorized to do so.
The fact that a 2nd employee was brought in says the agent could not execute the agreement the agent is stated to have been made.
If you don't understand the concept, then don't negotiate in any form w/ anyone until you understand who is capable of doing what.
You can make an offer for whatever you want in a store or w/ a service provider but that does not mean that person is capable of accepting and executing the offer.
When you have the money in hand, the contract has been concluded.
How some people fail to understand the concept is truly mind boggling.
Tim, what are they supposed tp ring up Ed when they have a bump situation arise? Obviously, the flight attendants ll is acting as Delta's agent in such a situation. Take off the blinders, dude.
No, Gene,
FAs are agents of the company WRT to cabin safety and onboard service.
They are not agents of the company for financial transactions including regarding denied boarding other than what the company has given them authority to do.
FAs are supposed to contact ground staff regarding DB situations and let them sort it out; FAs don't decide who gets on a plane and everyone is supposed to be seated by...
No, Gene,
FAs are agents of the company WRT to cabin safety and onboard service.
They are not agents of the company for financial transactions including regarding denied boarding other than what the company has given them authority to do.
FAs are supposed to contact ground staff regarding DB situations and let them sort it out; FAs don't decide who gets on a plane and everyone is supposed to be seated by the time the door is closed so there is no such thing as a DB situation in-flight.
They know that which is why it is incredulous that you spend your time arguing what everyone else understands.
Tim a 1L in law school can tell you that a contract is formed with Offer+Acceptance. The offer was the 15K. The acceptance was the second he agreed and walked off the plane (thereby marking his performance of the contract). I do hope Ben splits some of the money he gets from people being triggered by your trolling and keeping the comments going, but just hoping someone reads the posts of an actual lawyer instead of your gobbledygook
Agency law is a bit more complicated than that. Even if the agent isn’t authorized to offer that amount,- a lot of it depends on whether a reasonable person would know that. If the person could reasonably believe that the offer was $15k, which isn’t that far from the $10k max DL supposedly has, then Delta would have a harder time winning.
Also, as an in-house counsel for a Fortune 100 company, I can...
Agency law is a bit more complicated than that. Even if the agent isn’t authorized to offer that amount,- a lot of it depends on whether a reasonable person would know that. If the person could reasonably believe that the offer was $15k, which isn’t that far from the $10k max DL supposedly has, then Delta would have a harder time winning.
Also, as an in-house counsel for a Fortune 100 company, I can tell you that Delta is not wasting its time or resources defending itself in Utah small claims court over $13,500. Even at major companies like Delta, most in-house legal teams are too small to devote their limited resources to such a small amount, even if it were a slam dunk case, which I can tell you it’s not.
in the stillness of a quiet Christmas morning and before activities really get going in my house, let me summarize the responses so far.
1. I love a good debate; that is why I participate in aviation social media. I also love proving the fallacy of people's arguments; doing so is not trolling but engaging people on their terms.
2. Social media has created a sense that "my" opinion matters and can shape the...
in the stillness of a quiet Christmas morning and before activities really get going in my house, let me summarize the responses so far.
1. I love a good debate; that is why I participate in aviation social media. I also love proving the fallacy of people's arguments; doing so is not trolling but engaging people on their terms.
2. Social media has created a sense that "my" opinion matters and can shape the destiny of the world - and yet it doesn't.
3. All of the arguments about what Delta should have done miss the point that Delta is a business, and a very successful one. They are motivated by economic reasons; if moral issues guided them above all else, they probably should give away alot of things that they and other airlines don't.
4. Employees of companies make mistakes and many if not most of those mistakes are not honored. That is true for all types of businesses.
5. Most companies require a second set of eyes in order to disburse cash or cash equivalents (which includes denied boarding compensation). that second set of eyes is there in part to catch errors and that is what happened this time.
6. all kinds of people have claimed that this person should take legal action - and yet not a single person has posted that they have successfully won a case against a US airline regarding voluntary denied boarding compensation.
7. Delta is known for its very generous voluntary denied boarding compensation in order to prevent involuntary denied boardings. They pay out over 40% of all voluntary denied boarding compensation among US airlines, far in excess of the share of passengers they carry. Many people look for an opportunity to get denied boarding compensation and DL presents the greatest opportunity.
8. Voluntary denied boarding compensation is not regulated by any governmental body in the US and no local or state authority has any jurisdiction in economic issues including the setting of fares or ancillary services or voluntary compensation of any kind.
9. Not one person has yet to document how DL will be harmed by not honoring a verbal error from one of its employees, if that is what actually happened. People don't stop doing business w/ a business because an error was exposed by someone else. Just the opposite is taking place; people that didn't realize that someone could get $1500 in denied boarding compensation can recognize - just like this guy - that they gain economically and step up to play the game of voluntary denied boarding compensation. Anecdotal stories like this simply make it clear that it is possible for many people to reduce their travel costs by being ready to accept something for a change of travel plans.
10. The real story behind denied boarding compensation in the US is that DL does such a good job of filling planes and moving people around to achieve that without involuntary denied boardings. In contrast, the difference in boardings between #1 AA - who boards the most passengers - and DL as #2 is almost entirely composed of involuntary denied boardings. In other words, DL pays out far more voluntary DBs than any other airline and yet AA pays out far more involuntary DBs than all other US airlines combined. As a ratio of involuntary DBs to boardings, go to Frontier if you want your plans ruined and not compensated as you expect.
Merry Christmas to all who celebrate.
and don't forget to thank our host for allowing us to share commentary - and Merry Christmas to you and your family, Ben.
Most of your points are irrelevant to the story.
Employees, in this case, represent the airline on making the offer. If Delta wants to do it correctly, they could have made the offer in a written form with the amount offered and all the terms and conditions attached. But they did not. Therefore, a verbal contract is agreed upon, and yes, verbal contract is binding.
I'd suggest the traveler to sue Delta in the...
Most of your points are irrelevant to the story.
Employees, in this case, represent the airline on making the offer. If Delta wants to do it correctly, they could have made the offer in a written form with the amount offered and all the terms and conditions attached. But they did not. Therefore, a verbal contract is agreed upon, and yes, verbal contract is binding.
I'd suggest the traveler to sue Delta in the civil court, and who knows, the punitive damage claim can be much higher than $15K.
Merry Christmas!
you choose to believe they are irrelevant because you don't like the answer I come up with - and yet you can't prove that your suggestion will accomplish anything other than some internet table banging.
The simple fact that some including yourself can't grasp is that you don't have a contract with a company unless that company has empowered their employee with whom you are negotiating to execute the contract which you expect.
DL...
you choose to believe they are irrelevant because you don't like the answer I come up with - and yet you can't prove that your suggestion will accomplish anything other than some internet table banging.
The simple fact that some including yourself can't grasp is that you don't have a contract with a company unless that company has empowered their employee with whom you are negotiating to execute the contract which you expect.
DL clearly has a limit for voluntary denied boarding compensation and it is in writing.
Apparently no agent has been empowered to offer $15,000 in denied boarding compensation.
There cannot be a contract if an agent cannot execute it even if that agent said so and you have recorded it.
further, all the customer had to do when the offer was reduced to $1500, esp. since it apparently took place on the plane - was to say they do not accept that offer. At that point, the agent could turn to other customers and offer $1600 and the guy lucked out. The agent could have turned to involuntary denied boarding procedures which presumably would have been the person left standing. In neither case would the guy that thought he should get $15K would win anything. Think it through people.
And he clearly did get off the plane and accept the $1500 offer - but had regret afterwards.
For all of the people that claimed he had a contract, he actually did when he received compensation and signed the little voluntary DB release form.
Just because he told his story to 25 people and they said he should sue, he had a contract.
DL had no reason to reopen the deal at that point.
They offered him some SkyMiles for his effort.
End of story as much as some people want to keep it going.
In your case, you choose to believe that the actual offer was $1500 despite the story clearly stated that it was announced through the PA of the offer of $15000 and multiple people had confirmed the $15000 amount. I like to stick to the facts. BTW, personal attacks usually means one has lost the argument and trying to use personal attacks to pull everything else to the mud. I am not interested. This story shows...
In your case, you choose to believe that the actual offer was $1500 despite the story clearly stated that it was announced through the PA of the offer of $15000 and multiple people had confirmed the $15000 amount. I like to stick to the facts. BTW, personal attacks usually means one has lost the argument and trying to use personal attacks to pull everything else to the mud. I am not interested. This story shows Delta is not to be trusted! Even if you have status with them!
Someone brought up an experience with United earlier and the person contacted the CEO. That may also be a good way to settle it. The lesson here is get it on writing! Especially with Delta! Noted!
I'm sorry, but you are clearly not a lawyer and nothing you're saying is correct.
According to the Third Restatement of Agency, it doesn't actually matter what a company's internal policies say about what authority an employee has, so long as the employee's agency is apparent to the counterparty (which it appears to be here. So it appears that a contract was formed.
Next, you posit that because Delta offered them a clarification after the...
I'm sorry, but you are clearly not a lawyer and nothing you're saying is correct.
According to the Third Restatement of Agency, it doesn't actually matter what a company's internal policies say about what authority an employee has, so long as the employee's agency is apparent to the counterparty (which it appears to be here. So it appears that a contract was formed.
Next, you posit that because Delta offered them a clarification after the fact, and they had the chance to back out, that it doesn't matter that Delta didn't honor its earlier promise. Wrong again—even if neither side has yet performed, in a bilateral contract, you need mutual consent to (metaphorically) tear it up.
Barring a formation defense (and none would seem to apply here), the contract is valid and enforceable. Whether it's worth the passenger's effort to sue, I'm not sure. I'd probably take it to small claims court, but others here seem to disagree.
I understand you don't think he is due anything. You're welcome to that opinion. But that doesn't align with the law, and your analysis would likely receive a failing grade on a Contracts exam in any reputable law school.
Tim, if he sues in small claims court (which is relatively low cost to him, but still would cost Delta more than $13,500 to defend) they would probably just offer a settlement for $10k plus attorneys fees and be done with it. That’s what my company would do and we are bigger and more profitable than Delta.
When you give a crazed, crying lowlife a break, and allow him to comment at OMAAT, I guess it just didn’t work out. Good work by CXTraveller for quickly handling that dog!
TL;DR
Issue: DL backtrack on compensation.
Dunnald Timp: "according to DOT data. AA boards about 7% more passengers"
Analysis: Tim, no one argues your fact. It just doesn't address the issue.
Timp: "feel free to let us know where a verbal discussion can be viewed as a contract.
PPL who knows law: Tim.... (lost of words)
Analysis: Tim.... (lost of words)
Timp: "economic complaints w/ airlines are not permissible in local...
TL;DR
Issue: DL backtrack on compensation.
Dunnald Timp: "according to DOT data. AA boards about 7% more passengers"
Analysis: Tim, no one argues your fact. It just doesn't address the issue.
Timp: "feel free to let us know where a verbal discussion can be viewed as a contract.
PPL who knows law: Tim.... (lost of words)
Analysis: Tim.... (lost of words)
Timp: "economic complaints w/ airlines are not permissible in local and state courts as part of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978."
PPL who knows law: Tim.... (lost of words)
Analysis: Tim, no one argues your fact. It just doesn't address the issue. (Again)
Timp: DL gets the highest load factor of the big 4 and the highest TRASM.
Steve: I'm sorry but how is any of this relevant to the issue at hand?
Analysis: Tim.... (lost of words) (Again)
Happy Holidays Tim.
You seem to be "Happy" defending your fluff.
Maybe it's time you take some "Holidays" from OMAAT. Hurry, before Matthew sees through your fluffy fluff and takes away your 'vacation' home.
Eskimo, surely you must realise that Tim, has the exclusive ownership of dozens of holiday homes …. he resides rent and tax free in your brain cells …. YES?
Whey boy! Timmy Dunn has his panties in an uproar tonight.
Someone lit his panties on fire!
Dimmy Tun - you know this is BS. Give the man the damn vouchers and let it go.
Why is that troll not banned already?
But it is the likes of you who is trolling Tim, numpty!
At least he can put more than seven words together, yes?
My advice is never to accept any such offer by any airline ever, as they are often contingent and can disappear instantly.
Seriously, …. Don’t even think twice about it!
$1500.00 & NOT 15,000.00 ? lol! lol! lol! What a Fool!
Nothing new here Delta has run a criminal enterprise for many years sticking it to the American public.
While all airlines can suck integrity wise
They are the least trustworthy of the legacy carriers in my overview.
I avoid them at all costs and admit on some very rare occasions on a team members assistance I’ll let them fly non stop to DTW ETC
Ultimately we have a travel ban on...
Nothing new here Delta has run a criminal enterprise for many years sticking it to the American public.
While all airlines can suck integrity wise
They are the least trustworthy of the legacy carriers in my overview.
I avoid them at all costs and admit on some very rare occasions on a team members assistance I’ll let them fly non stop to DTW ETC
Ultimately we have a travel ban on Delta and I’ll fly almost anyone but Delta unless the choice is spirit or frontier Which are the only carriers that are even less premium and scam like as well
remember the old saying, "put it in writing".
there is 1 SIMPLE answer to it all, no matter what argument you ever have with an airline:
NEVER TRUST ANY AIRLINE . . . airlines (worldwide) are all gangsters!
NO airline will ever wirk in a passenger's favor. (especially NOT in the US) . . . make them (when on board) "put it in writing" . . . all airlines have sort of "irregularity report forms" on board. ;-)
If Delta confirmed that $15,000 was the original offer, it must be honored even if it was an error. PERIOD
The ole ‘bait n switch’ aka fraud. We really need meaningful air passenger rights legislation in the US like EU261. Anyway, good luck ‘lifting yourself up by your bootstraps’ for now…
I think its more likely a misunderstanding between the various DL people but so long as the person making the offer had authority or apparent authority and the passenger had good reason to believe he offer was legitimate then he's got a good case. There was a meeting of the minds. DL got the seat, so the passenger should get what was offered. I think a court is likely to agree.
In hindsight, he should’ve recorded the offer with his phone.
And I would definitely find a way to file a suit on this…… even if you just go to small claims for the maximum amount they will allow you to go after. But I would imagine he could find an attorney that would like some publicity that would work with him!
Who are the morons at Delta who think 15k in flight credit is worth more than all the crappy publicity they are getting? Does not give me any confidence in Delta's competence.
who are the morons that think they have any influence in this or any other thing that happens in the world just because they get all worked up about it?
DL has been paying huge voluntary DB payments for years; they make up 43% of all voluntary DBs in the US - over 100,000 just in the first 9 months of this year.
There are people that know how DL works and seek out the...
who are the morons that think they have any influence in this or any other thing that happens in the world just because they get all worked up about it?
DL has been paying huge voluntary DB payments for years; they make up 43% of all voluntary DBs in the US - over 100,000 just in the first 9 months of this year.
There are people that know how DL works and seek out the opportunity to get a DB payment from them.
an anecdote that represents a tiny percentage of passengers isn't changing anything.
I don't see how much or little DL has paid in payments to other passengers has any relevance to the situation at hand.
The poster merely states that failing to honor the offer will result in bad publicity.
Do you disagree with that statement?
Yes, Tim, Delta has been lying to customers for decades. Usually they can get away with it via their contract of carriage, SkyMiles T&C, etc., but not in this case. They coerced someone to give up their seat on a flight by lying about what they would receive in return (a contract). This doesn't fly. Sorry, dude. Get a grip on reality.
Just a very general comment based on decades in corporate America.....when you're defending your company/team/partner etc, don't go so far out on the limb with definitive statements that you look silly and end up feeling betrayed when the party you're defending decides to reverse course and apologize. It can happen even when your side is unambigously right.
As a former Delta Airlines employee, this has been entertaining to say the least! Hahahaha x 1000 times!
Surprised VFTW hasn't copied and posted same story, as loves to post this kind of stuff!
Fortunately you can still sue airlines in small claims court and Salt Lake County's $20k limit would still allow the passenger to recover the entire amount of their economic damages. Given Delta's written communications, it's a slam dunk that would take two minutes to write and file.
share with us your track record in success for this type of case, please.
Tim
Just relax and walk away. Do you not even realize how stupid you look? Or how impossibly lonely you appear that your only friend on Christmas Eve seems to be delta?
How many new ways can you find to destroy your already awful reputation?
well, well, well
You decided to switch usernames.
There is at best one other person besides me in this discussion that has figured out that companies don't run their companies based on what internet social media thinks.
DL carries hundreds of millions of passengers per year and paid out in just the first 9 months voluntary DBs to over 100,000 passengers - 43% of all voluntary DBs in the entire US airline industry.
DL's program...
well, well, well
You decided to switch usernames.
There is at best one other person besides me in this discussion that has figured out that companies don't run their companies based on what internet social media thinks.
DL carries hundreds of millions of passengers per year and paid out in just the first 9 months voluntary DBs to over 100,000 passengers - 43% of all voluntary DBs in the entire US airline industry.
DL's program works. I would never expect you or anyone else to concede that DL gets the highest load factor of the big 4 and the highest TRASM.
DL isn't looking for and honestly doesn't care about your or anyone else here's approval for what they do - and the same goes for every other airline.
The fact that people get so wrapped up in thinking their outrage changes anything is laughable.
The fact that you continue in your incessant campaign to think you will shame me is beyond pathetic.
You simply cannot stand that someone understands and speaks to concepts which you can't even spell.
go find some reindeer drops to play in, Max.
@tim
Switched usernames?
Ok? Not sure what that means but whatever. It’s about time you realize you’re the village idiot to everyone, not just me.
“The fact that you continue in your incessant campaign to think you will shame me is beyond pathetic.”
Oh trust… everyone is well aware you have no dignity or self respect by now. You’ll say anything to anyone so long is delta is defended
Find some...
@tim
Switched usernames?
Ok? Not sure what that means but whatever. It’s about time you realize you’re the village idiot to everyone, not just me.
“The fact that you continue in your incessant campaign to think you will shame me is beyond pathetic.”
Oh trust… everyone is well aware you have no dignity or self respect by now. You’ll say anything to anyone so long is delta is defended
Find some friends.
@guest aero
Well past your bedtime but why would that matter since you aren’t in the UK, huh?
Merry Christmas, fellas!
I've won multiple cases against airlines for breach of contract.
You need to have a good case. Whether this one is or isn't is up to a court to decide but there is no blanket prohibition against suing an airline. Neither Walens or Ginsberg eliminated the right to sue for breach of contract.
I'm sorry but how is any of this relevant to the issue at hand?
I'll assume you read the Wolens and Ginsburg and realize nothing in those or any other case or statute prohibit the passenger in this case from suing DL, how do you think a court should rule on this situation?
Do you think it should hold that an offer is a binding contract or that having made an offer and induced a...
I'm sorry but how is any of this relevant to the issue at hand?
I'll assume you read the Wolens and Ginsburg and realize nothing in those or any other case or statute prohibit the passenger in this case from suing DL, how do you think a court should rule on this situation?
Do you think it should hold that an offer is a binding contract or that having made an offer and induced a passenger to give up their seat and take a later flight the airline has the right to unilaterally change the offer or even abrogate the offer entirely?
Given that is settled law that oral agreements are every bit as binding as written ones and in this case there are all three elements of a contract, what is your legal theory for why there isn't a binding agreement?
We are all here to learn so I'd very much like to understand your thinking.
Tim, please do not take any notice of the post from Max, he’s only envious about your U.S. aviation knowledge.
Have a happy Christmas wherever you are.
Just give the man his money, you parasites.
He didn’t. He’s still in ATL.
How did he eventually get to PSP?
have bastian play from his multimillion dollar "bonus" this year.
Delta offer $15k + passenger accepting this offer = they entered into a contract
feel free to let us know where a verbal discussion can be viewed as a contract.
as to the comment below, people don't seem to realize that economic complaints w/ airlines are not permissible in local and state courts as part of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.
That is true for AA, DL, UA, WN and the entire industry.
The federal government alone has oversight over the economic aspects of the airline industry and...
feel free to let us know where a verbal discussion can be viewed as a contract.
as to the comment below, people don't seem to realize that economic complaints w/ airlines are not permissible in local and state courts as part of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.
That is true for AA, DL, UA, WN and the entire industry.
The federal government alone has oversight over the economic aspects of the airline industry and most of it was deregulated in 1978
and the same discussion is going on w/ regulation of AI; my bet is that the feds will win.
“feel free to let us know where a verbal discussion can be viewed as a contract.”
Verbal agreements can be (and often are) enforceable contracts, but can be trickier to prove than written ones. In this case, nobody’s disputing the agreement. The issue is enforceability.
Tim,
Leave the legal talk to those of us who have taken contracts. There was offer and acceptance here and consideration on both sides. It's enforceable. I would file that suit in a minute for myself, but I have my bar card. I would not file that case for someone else because it would take about 40 hours and I would bill more than the 15K. You could probably get legal fees but they would be limited by the COC and Montreal Convention.
It is absolutely a contract. (Offer + Acceptance + Consideration). And you can sue an airline. With the written admission, it would probably only take a strongly worded letter from a lawyer to get most of the $15,000.
for people that love to tell other people they don't know what they are talking about, some people here spout absolute lies.
The Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 removed the ability for states and local governments to regulate the economic aspects of the US airline industry and limited the federal government to a very few economic aspects they can control - such as INVOLUNTARY denied boarding.
Voluntary denied boarding policies are completely up to each...
for people that love to tell other people they don't know what they are talking about, some people here spout absolute lies.
The Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 removed the ability for states and local governments to regulate the economic aspects of the US airline industry and limited the federal government to a very few economic aspects they can control - such as INVOLUNTARY denied boarding.
Voluntary denied boarding policies are completely up to each airline and there is no regulation of them.
you can't sue for damages for what is not regulated, strongly worded anything.
If you think you can succeed, ask Ben to connect you w/ this person and let us know the outcome.
Tim, that was a relatively ignorant comment even for you. They can set whatever involuntary boarding policy they want, but what that can't do is enter in a contract then not fulfill it. By there own admission it was inadvertently offered. That doesn't make it any less binding.
One can sue for damages for any perceived harm resulting from a breach of contract, and regulation has nothing to do with it.
There was an offer, a confirmation, and an acceptance. It doesn’t have to be written down. The problem with verbal contracts is they are hard to prove, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t valid and enforceable contracts. Also, the Airline Deregulation Act may limit “regulation” of airlines, but it doesn’t exempt airlines from basic contract law.
You can sue an airline for breach of contract which is what is being alleged in this case. Wolens held that ordinary contract claims remains viable.
This is settled law. I've sued airlines for breach of contract and won. If the Wolens or Ginsberg cases would have prevented my from brings an action the airline certainly would have raised that as a defense. They didn't because those cases don't. Read the Supreme Court ruling and you will see that.
Unfortunately, with Delta, that’s not going to happen. I’m not only an attorney, but I’m an attorney who has actually successfully sued Delta (and a couple of other airlines) on behalf of clients. To say that Delta would rather screw a snake in the Colosseum at High Noon before treating a claimant fairly is an understatement. I routinely litigate against Fortune 500 companies, and if Delta isn’t the worst I’ve dealt with, it is certainly...
Unfortunately, with Delta, that’s not going to happen. I’m not only an attorney, but I’m an attorney who has actually successfully sued Delta (and a couple of other airlines) on behalf of clients. To say that Delta would rather screw a snake in the Colosseum at High Noon before treating a claimant fairly is an understatement. I routinely litigate against Fortune 500 companies, and if Delta isn’t the worst I’ve dealt with, it is certainly in the top 3. They lie with impunity.
And to Tim “I don’t know what the eff I’m talking about but I love cousin Ed Bastian” Dunn, stay in your lane. You do the world a disservice every time you open your pie hole. STFU.
Are you saying Any court? In 2002, we won a small court claim against NWA. It was for $750.(It was in Seattle.)
So, I get an employee of Tesla to agree to sell me the entire company for $1. That's an enforceable contract. BS. Your understanding of law is quite limited.
That’s a pointless example because an employee of Tesla doesn’t own the company and also doesn’t have the authority to bind the company to selling itself and no reasonable person could believe that was so. We have all seen VDB offers get sky high one time or another. While $15k is high (and possibly above a line Delta established for employees to offer), it’s not that crazy and the average person wouldn’t know that upper...
That’s a pointless example because an employee of Tesla doesn’t own the company and also doesn’t have the authority to bind the company to selling itself and no reasonable person could believe that was so. We have all seen VDB offers get sky high one time or another. While $15k is high (and possibly above a line Delta established for employees to offer), it’s not that crazy and the average person wouldn’t know that upper limit. He clearly asked them to repeat the offer because he wouldn’t have gotten off the plane and left his wife and infant alone for $1500.
Delta screwed up here and they should have to make it right, and $13,500 is basically nothing to them. After all, when it’s the other way around and the passenger makes a mistake no one expects Delta to just suck it up and accommodate the passenger. The bootlicking corporate apologists in here need to realize that corporations are not their friends and never will be no matter how much they want them to be. They certainly aren’t evil (well most of them), but they shouldn’t get the benefit of the doubt here when they wouldn’t extend the same courtesy to us.
The employee would have to have authority or apparent authority. Also the offer would have to be reasonable meaning a reasonable person would have to believe it was a legitimate offer.
Your example fails both tests. The situation here passes both.
The passenger should look up the jurisdictional limit of small claims court in SLC. If it includes claims up to $15k, they should consider it. Seems like they've got all the elements of a contract (at common law anyway), and if they actually have Delta communications substantiating the $15k offer, I'd like their chances.
If SLC works anything like CA, filing a small claims action is pretty straightforward, and you don't need a lawyer...
The passenger should look up the jurisdictional limit of small claims court in SLC. If it includes claims up to $15k, they should consider it. Seems like they've got all the elements of a contract (at common law anyway), and if they actually have Delta communications substantiating the $15k offer, I'd like their chances.
If SLC works anything like CA, filing a small claims action is pretty straightforward, and you don't need a lawyer (lawyers can't even appear in small claims out here). So file a form, pay a little filing fee, show up to a hearing, bingo bango, secure the bag promised.
How is this not bait and switch ? And there are laws for this. Hate to say it, but these airlines are really getting a habit of screwing customers in every which way.
I'm sure it was just the DL people not communicated with each other and if so then lack of intent.
Besides its not necessary or really helpful to making a winning case.
The current administration has strongly deprioritized consumer protections - e.g. the laws don't matter if nobody enforces them.
this is an interesting indication of the company's service culture, particularly coming shortly after the recent AirHelp survey finding that "American Airlines beat out both United Airlines and Delta Air Lines because it was better in one key category . . . They were able to get passengers their compensation quicker.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/17/new-survey-travelers-say-these-are-the-best-us-airlines.html
and yet the US DOT reports on on-time, cancellation rates, baggage handling, oversales and consumer complaints.
It has no category for "gets compensation faster" - whatever that means - but on no planet does a handful of customers getting compensated (for what?) count as a bigger factor than on-time which affects 100% of customers.
YTD through Sept., AA ranked 9th out of 10 US airlines for on-time YTD. In contrast, the soon to be extinct...
and yet the US DOT reports on on-time, cancellation rates, baggage handling, oversales and consumer complaints.
It has no category for "gets compensation faster" - whatever that means - but on no planet does a handful of customers getting compensated (for what?) count as a bigger factor than on-time which affects 100% of customers.
YTD through Sept., AA ranked 9th out of 10 US airlines for on-time YTD. In contrast, the soon to be extinct HA ranked #1 which means that current #2 is likely to move up to #1; UA was #6.
AA's on-time for Sept - the most recent month that the DOT has released was 10th out of 10 with the largest number of reported flights. DL was 2nd largest in number of flights and behind Allegiant, soon-to-be-extinct HA and WN.
in baggage handling YTD, UA is the worst US airline with AA right above them with HA right above them.
AA regularly gets about twice the number of complaints at the DOT compared to DL and yet AA only boards about 7% more domestic passengers than DL.
You can believe and accept your made-up reality or you can be "served" a helping of facts and data that show how the real world sees the airline industry
i'm truly sorry that the AirHelp findings bothered you. Happy Holidays!
when someone says something that is completely counter to provable facts that are available from multiple sources, you should not be surprised when your supposed source throws in some undefined factor so they can deny reality which anyone remotely familiar w/ the issue knows.
AA is at or near the bottom of the US airline in multiple metrics. To try to deny that is pretty easy for anyone to see.
don't bring up articles that...
when someone says something that is completely counter to provable facts that are available from multiple sources, you should not be surprised when your supposed source throws in some undefined factor so they can deny reality which anyone remotely familiar w/ the issue knows.
AA is at or near the bottom of the US airline in multiple metrics. To try to deny that is pretty easy for anyone to see.
don't bring up articles that manipulate reality if you don't want that reality given back to you
I drank the Kool-Aid for a long time. I recently flew AA for the first time in years having preferred DL for reliability. I was stunned at the difference people could make. EVERY SINGLE AA contact was dealing with someone courteous and capable.
I do all the mileage plans and calculations in my family, my wife, on her own noticed the same pattern.
Tim, my friend, I quietly (to myself) try to think of defending your positions from time to time BUT in this case Delta F*kd Up and a number of folk who quite obviously have more than a little case law behind them are pointing this out.
Delta is not perfect. And the would have been wise to just give the gentleman his 15K.
Someone in middle management at Delta is being stupidly stubborn.
I would think the bad publicity is already worse than the $13,500 savings.
This needs to be fixed and with a big apology too.
do tell us how bad publicity is going to hurt DL?
People quit doing business with a company because of a clear error which they choose not to accept?
Have you ever had something erroneously deposited to your bank account? How long did it take before they came asking for it back?
A bunch of people book on DL so they can wait for an agent to make a ten fold mistake on denied...
do tell us how bad publicity is going to hurt DL?
People quit doing business with a company because of a clear error which they choose not to accept?
Have you ever had something erroneously deposited to your bank account? How long did it take before they came asking for it back?
A bunch of people book on DL so they can wait for an agent to make a ten fold mistake on denied boarding compensation and then pounce on them?
Forgive me if I struggle to see where this hurts DL.
Perhaps you can shed insight into how a company not honoring an error - which happens more often than you want to admit - turns into a defection of customers.
Seriously Tim 'Denial' Dunce, your entire Delta defense crumbles under truth, logic, and common sense – just like it always does when reality hits your fanboy bubble.
Someone in middle management at Delta is being stupidly stubborn. A Gold Medallion family man volunteers to deplane after a clear onboard announcement of $15,000 compensation, relies on it, gets off with his wife and baby... and Delta retroactively slashes it to peanuts while gaslighting him as a...
Seriously Tim 'Denial' Dunce, your entire Delta defense crumbles under truth, logic, and common sense – just like it always does when reality hits your fanboy bubble.
Someone in middle management at Delta is being stupidly stubborn. A Gold Medallion family man volunteers to deplane after a clear onboard announcement of $15,000 compensation, relies on it, gets off with his wife and baby... and Delta retroactively slashes it to peanuts while gaslighting him as a "liar"? The bad publicity is already exploding across OMAAT, Elliott.org, Reddit, and many other travel sites – way worse than the $13,500 savings they're clinging to like misers.
People absolutely defect over this crap: trust shattered, viral stories spreading, ex-loyals jumping ship to United or AA where they don't get treated like suckers. Your bank analogy is idiotic – erroneous deposits are accidental glitches, not a deliberate verbal promise to induce action during overbooking (which Delta loves for revenue). Passengers aren't "pouncing"; they're holding Delta to its word in a regulated industry where reputation = billions.
This hurts DL big time: tanking goodwill, fueling boycott chatter, and spotlighting why their "premium" image is hollow when push comes to shove. Other airlines build real loyalty instead of alienating it.
Fix it with the full $15K and a groveling apology, Delta. Or keep enabling the Deuce's delusions – the rest of us see the emperor has no clothes.
@Kathy Arseoff - 100% agree.
@Tim Dunn - In this situation, the company needs to take ownership of the staff's mistake. This is the cost of doing business.
In my medical clinic, if a staff member misquotes the cost of a cosmetic procedure, I honor that and eat the loss without thinking twice or even dwelling on it.
As another example, if we review medical coding and find a mistake in our favor, we always...
@Kathy Arseoff - 100% agree.
@Tim Dunn - In this situation, the company needs to take ownership of the staff's mistake. This is the cost of doing business.
In my medical clinic, if a staff member misquotes the cost of a cosmetic procedure, I honor that and eat the loss without thinking twice or even dwelling on it.
As another example, if we review medical coding and find a mistake in our favor, we always correct it. On the other hand, if we find a mistake in the patient's favor, we don't dare correct it (but obviously aim to learn from it and not make it again).
first, it is obvious that "Kathy" is not the least bit objective about this discussion when they spend a half dozen posts trashing someone else and talking about a.net and then decide to discuss the topic - after being reminded that their "new" username doesn't hide the past they have hid behind for years.
And, no, companies do not always stand behind their employees' errors. Other people can recognize that; a ten fold error is...
first, it is obvious that "Kathy" is not the least bit objective about this discussion when they spend a half dozen posts trashing someone else and talking about a.net and then decide to discuss the topic - after being reminded that their "new" username doesn't hide the past they have hid behind for years.
And, no, companies do not always stand behind their employees' errors. Other people can recognize that; a ten fold error is more than enough for a company to argue that they will not honor it.
if you or Max or anyone else that has no critical thinking skills isn't capable of realizing, a $13000 plus mistake is far in excess of the benefit obtained as a Gold Medallion and any person that thinks logically about the situation can see that.
If someone wants to walk away from the benefits they have achieved over an error that is not likely to be repeated is simply allowing emotions, not reality, to drive their thinking.
and other customers don't choose to stop doing business with a company because someone else didn't win in an error situation that other people are not likely to ever encounter.
I know some your brains are already saturated with eggnog but a little thinking would do wonders to frame this situation for what it is - an employee error - at best - that the company is not going to honor and will cost them little if anything close to what it costs to cover the error.
@tim Dunn you are wrong about this and should quit posting while you are behind in the count. I have tolerance for your arguments about 767s and TPAC route rebuildings but your stance here is bordering on psychosis
@Tim Dunn - I have no idea who Kathy really is, but I actually agree with you that the profit from this Gold Medallion customer is likely nowhere near the $13,500 in question.
And yes, just quietly paying the full $15,000 would be an expensive mistake. However, the best option in this case would have been to both pay up but also publicize it widely - surely lots of news media would take the bait...
@Tim Dunn - I have no idea who Kathy really is, but I actually agree with you that the profit from this Gold Medallion customer is likely nowhere near the $13,500 in question.
And yes, just quietly paying the full $15,000 would be an expensive mistake. However, the best option in this case would have been to both pay up but also publicize it widely - surely lots of news media would take the bait and publish this feel-good story. The resulting positive publicity would be worth far more than any $13,500 of "advertising spend" could possibly generate.
On the other hand, Delta took the worst possible position by digging in. Thereby creating in my opinion negative publicity far in excess of the $13,500.
This is a case of being penny wise and pound foolish.
feel free to quantify the losses you think DL is occurring, Simon.
There is no value to people HOPING that they will get a denied boarding in excess of DL's limits and have it denied because of an agent error.
do you really think through what you write? Very few people clearly are on this one.
If anything, DL attracts passengers because the value of its DB compensation exceeds the rest of the industry by so much.
@Tim Dunn
Most people have no idea what Delta’s limits are for denied boarding, or that there even is a limit.
Would you say there is value to DL customers trusting that whatever they are being offered for DB will be honored?
You’re right that this episode might not move the needle in terms of airline choice. But wouldn’t you agree that people aware of this incident might be more reluctant to volunteer their...
@Tim Dunn
Most people have no idea what Delta’s limits are for denied boarding, or that there even is a limit.
Would you say there is value to DL customers trusting that whatever they are being offered for DB will be honored?
You’re right that this episode might not move the needle in terms of airline choice. But wouldn’t you agree that people aware of this incident might be more reluctant to volunteer their seat, and ironically even more so as nobody volunteering causes the promised compensation to go up…
This right here. Word going around that Delta doesn't honor its higher VDB offers would quite obviously result in people being more reluctant to accept VDB offers. Meaning now Delta has to go through IDB more often, and is delayed more often when people don't want to give up their seat because they don't trust that Delta will follow through with promised compensation. While rare, it's not like amounts in excess of $10k are unheard of for VDB compensation.
Who exactly do they think will stop flying DL because of this? How many will even hear about it. Well, we have 58 responses here. That's a start.
This was ran Legal and Legal said deny him the $15K. NO AIRLINE is going to offer $15K VDB for a 35-40 minute flight when they can do an IDB for far, far less. Moreover, there's no written contract and likely no impartial witnesses to testify they...
Who exactly do they think will stop flying DL because of this? How many will even hear about it. Well, we have 58 responses here. That's a start.
This was ran Legal and Legal said deny him the $15K. NO AIRLINE is going to offer $15K VDB for a 35-40 minute flight when they can do an IDB for far, far less. Moreover, there's no written contract and likely no impartial witnesses to testify they heard an offer of $15K. Dude should take his $1.5K and realize that too good to be true is usually too good to be true.
Spare the "fairness" factor. You think corporations are "fair?" You must also believe Bernie Sanders is truly for the downtrodden.
I read the comments because there are enough intelligent people like George that show up in the midst of an intelligence vacuum
Its simple. If people believe Delta is going to gaslight them on offers to be bumped, they wont accept them. Then Delta is going to have to either offer more (which people wont believe) or start involuntarily bumping, which will crush them in the court of public opinion.
People that are considering an offer are going to want it in writing when they cant trust Delta folks to be honest about compensation - slowing acceptance...
Its simple. If people believe Delta is going to gaslight them on offers to be bumped, they wont accept them. Then Delta is going to have to either offer more (which people wont believe) or start involuntarily bumping, which will crush them in the court of public opinion.
People that are considering an offer are going to want it in writing when they cant trust Delta folks to be honest about compensation - slowing acceptance and delaying flights.
If the press around this gaslight becomes recognized by the public, Deltas overbooking is going to get a lot more expensive for them - in both dollars and public sentiment.
That's how bad publicity around this will hurt Delta. Operationally. monetarily, and reputationally.
and yet, Joe, DL has been making voluntary DB offers that are stratospheric compared to other airlines for years - and they still manage to have a 0.00% invol DB ratio.
This isn't their first rodeo. They know what they are doing.
and there are tens of thousands of DL customers per year (100,991 from Jan to Sept. 2025) that have accepted voluntary DBs and many likely got way higher than they could get elsewhere.
...and yet, Joe, DL has been making voluntary DB offers that are stratospheric compared to other airlines for years - and they still manage to have a 0.00% invol DB ratio.
This isn't their first rodeo. They know what they are doing.
and there are tens of thousands of DL customers per year (100,991 from Jan to Sept. 2025) that have accepted voluntary DBs and many likely got way higher than they could get elsewhere.
Your theories just don't play out in reality, Joe.
A whole lot of people see DL's very generous voluntary DB program as an opportunity to save a whole lot of money on their travel - if everything aligns right so that they can volunteer to be bumped.
Tim, you should be in a mental hospital. You're a waste of oxygen. The world is worse for having you in it.
They don't need anyone to stop doing business with them to be hurt. Even if (big if!) literally no-one changes their booking habits, people will still be less willing to accept their (genuine) offers in similar situations in future. They can easily lose out on much more just having to pay more to bump people next time.
And even if that wasn't enough, going round saying 'yeah, we thought about it and we'd rather keep...
They don't need anyone to stop doing business with them to be hurt. Even if (big if!) literally no-one changes their booking habits, people will still be less willing to accept their (genuine) offers in similar situations in future. They can easily lose out on much more just having to pay more to bump people next time.
And even if that wasn't enough, going round saying 'yeah, we thought about it and we'd rather keep the money than keep our word' is just an awful look.
They messed up here, and denying that is just weird.
Easy win in small claims court, if the facts are as the husband states. Delta can’t weasel out of a deal, especially when the customer had confirmed more than once about the figure, after already receiving the seat the customer had given up.
What if I bought a plane ticket, flew it, and then claim I didn’t mean to pay that much? Would Delta refund me?
you clearly are new to the airline industry - and business.
Employees of companies of all kinds make mistakes - and yet all kinds of companies succeed at denying claims customers make or in clawing back mistakes.
and, airlines do make pricing mistakes and have codified that they can cancel the tickets issued under those mistakes.
Feel free to let us know of a case where an airline made a pricing mistake, the customer flew...
you clearly are new to the airline industry - and business.
Employees of companies of all kinds make mistakes - and yet all kinds of companies succeed at denying claims customers make or in clawing back mistakes.
and, airlines do make pricing mistakes and have codified that they can cancel the tickets issued under those mistakes.
Feel free to let us know of a case where an airline made a pricing mistake, the customer flew on it and THEN the airline decided to go after the incorrectly priced ticket. Good luck hunting for that situation.
Denied boarding negotiation is almost entirely verbal once it goes past a certain stage; even if you succeed at proving that an airline said something doesn't mean you will succeed at getting what someone said.
Will you tick someone off by correcting an error? of course, every company constantly balances that.
but if you set the precedent that you will honor every mistake, you set yourself up for a long line of payouts that airlines simply won't accept.
this guy should accept the $1500 and 20K of miles and, if it bothers him enough, fly on another airline... and see if he is even offered $1500.
Oh look, Tiny D is back with his classic Delta-defending word salad, pretending he's some wise industry veteran while spewing easily debunked garbage. "Good luck hunting" for a case where an airline went after a mistaken fare AFTER the passenger flew?
Challenge accepted, you pompous blowhard – but spoiler: it's rare because airlines aren't complete idiots. They know clawing back money post-flight opens them to massive PR disasters, lawsuits, and regulatory headaches. That's why...
Oh look, Tiny D is back with his classic Delta-defending word salad, pretending he's some wise industry veteran while spewing easily debunked garbage. "Good luck hunting" for a case where an airline went after a mistaken fare AFTER the passenger flew?
Challenge accepted, you pompous blowhard – but spoiler: it's rare because airlines aren't complete idiots. They know clawing back money post-flight opens them to massive PR disasters, lawsuits, and regulatory headaches. That's why they cancel BEFORE travel 99% of the time, refund, and move on.
But hey, since you're so confident, explain this: airlines' own Contracts of Carriage (including Delta's) explicitly allow them to recalculate and bill the difference if you don't fly the itinerary as booked – that's their codified "mistake" protection in action. Or how Lufthansa has repeatedly sued passengers (and won in some courts) over fare rules violations, racking up legal fees to enforce pricing integrity.
You're the one who's "clearly new" if you think companies just eat every error without pushing back. Setting precedents? That's exactly why airlines tightened everything post-2015 DOT ruling – no more forced honoring of obvious mistakes. But keep preaching from your ivory tower, Dunce. The rest of us know real businesses protect revenue, not roll over for every "oopsie."
Still waiting on those unbreakable Delta stats you love cherry-picking. Or are we just getting more hot air?
holy reindeer dung, Max
"You're the one who's "clearly new" if you think companies just eat every error without pushing back"
that is precisely the point I have made about a dozen times here.... companies DO NOT EAT all or even most errors that their employees make. If you were a little less focused on trying to shame me and a tad more focused on reading what was written, you would have seen this same...
holy reindeer dung, Max
"You're the one who's "clearly new" if you think companies just eat every error without pushing back"
that is precisely the point I have made about a dozen times here.... companies DO NOT EAT all or even most errors that their employees make. If you were a little less focused on trying to shame me and a tad more focused on reading what was written, you would have seen this same point about 6 times before you wrote it and acted as if you came up w/ an original thought.
"Good luck hunting" for a case where an airline went after a mistaken fare AFTER the passenger flew?
Challenge accepted, you pompous blowhard – but spoiler: it's rare because airlines aren't complete idiots"
and yet you showed up without an actual case.
and if you think that violations of hidden city ticketing is a mistake, then you are even more of an idiot than you call other people.
The reason why you ALWAYS lose these debates - and I love having them - is because you have no idea what you are talking about 99.9% of the time. You can't stand that someone else can talk accurately on multiple sites when you can't so you resort to personal attacks to try to hide the fact that you are the one that has been "owned" and "schooled" every time you take on an argument which is over your head - which is nearly all the time.
walk away, Max. Yet another user name won't fix why you fail or why you feel a need to show up and crap all over the internet.
With apologies to the screenwriters from Rain Man: Tim, Delta sucks!
You are right that a party doesn't have to as you put it eat every error. But that begs the question do they have to eat this error (assuming it one)?
Make your case they don't.
Why shouldn't the passenger win in court what they were offered?
Give us the legal reasoning that you think will prevail in court. I'll do the same.
This is how we all learn.
You are like Trump. Didn’t answer the question and then took off on a unrelated subject to divert attention. Wait, maybe you are…..naw, couldn’t be.
@Mark
You mean we all should now call him Dunnald Timp?
Challenge accepted!
Not surprising at all coming from Delta... all you need to know is in its airline code, DL = Despicable Liar
Similar thing happened to me on a United flight. At the gate in SLC, they offered multiple times for someone in Econ+ aisle to move to a middle seat in the back of the bus. When it got to $3k, my daughter said she'd move since she had an Econ+ seat on the aisle (we were all sitting together as a family). We had our seats booked for months. So we went to the gate...
Similar thing happened to me on a United flight. At the gate in SLC, they offered multiple times for someone in Econ+ aisle to move to a middle seat in the back of the bus. When it got to $3k, my daughter said she'd move since she had an Econ+ seat on the aisle (we were all sitting together as a family). We had our seats booked for months. So we went to the gate agent, and she agreed to move my daughter. My wife was taking care of the details, and I boarded with the kids given I was carrying all the ski gear. My wife gets on, and she said the gate agent was going to work on giving us the voucher and they'd email it, but the flight needed to depart. I was very suspicious, but they closed the door. Sure enough, no email. No voucher. I emailed customer support, United said they would never have offered us that much money to move seats, even though they did. Round and round I went with the 1K line at United, until I finally emailed the Scott Kirby. They did an investigation, the SLC gate agent admitted she offered the $3k, and they relented and gave me the voucher. Morale of the story, stand your ground at the gate until you get what they offered. And don't take the first "no" for an answer.
FYI, the reason they needed the Econ+ seat was for an Air Marshall. In all my years of flying, I've never seen an offer to move seats for money.
you can't say stuff like this.
Anecdotal mistakes and gate agent deviation from policy when the clear attempt by some is to paint w/ broad brush generalizations.
The simple fact is that DL does the best job of converting potentially invol DBs into high value voluntary DBs of any US airline and probably any in the world.
UA learned its lesson after Dr. Dao and is well below industry average but not as "perfect" as...
you can't say stuff like this.
Anecdotal mistakes and gate agent deviation from policy when the clear attempt by some is to paint w/ broad brush generalizations.
The simple fact is that DL does the best job of converting potentially invol DBs into high value voluntary DBs of any US airline and probably any in the world.
UA learned its lesson after Dr. Dao and is well below industry average but not as "perfect" as DL.
and the real gaslighting in the airline industry for 2025 was Scott Kirby to about 40K of his employees by telling them how valuable they are to the company but failing over and over to deliver new contracts to them. That wasn't an anecdote but a well-defined strategy to take advantage of tens of thousands of people even while touting how great UA's strategies are - even while saving hundreds of millions of dollars per year in labor costs compared to AA, DL and WN.
thanks for being honest and highlighting that humans make mistakes at any company.
other people can wonder why I go for the jugular about companies when they make personal attacks which simply who wears what on their shirt sleeves
What?
Nothing you wrote is related to what actually happened to me, and United came through in the end. I didn’t say anything about Delta, or pass judgement. Wow, your mind is really warped if that’s how you read it.
You are like Trump. Didn’t answer the question and then took off on a unrelated subject to divert attention. Wait, maybe you are…..naw, couldn’t be.
@Mark
You mean we all should now call him Dunnald Timp?
Challenge accepted!
I'm not clear how this relates to the content of the post.
Could you clarify the point you are trying to make?
The point of responding is to engage the other person. Their point was that United stood behind what the employee had agreed to.
I'm here to learn and I think most other readers are too. Help us to understand what you are trying to say in response to this person's post.
As we all know, Delta is the single and only perfect airline in the world. Therefore this is okay by me.
Absolutely Dunce, DL leads the U.S. pack of low class airlines according to all respectable customer satisfaction surveys, yes?
This being the holiday season, perhaps all commenters on this site should resolve for the new year not to attack Tim Dunn, the person, and limit ourselves to his opinions. The "Timothy "The Dunce" Dunn" naming is fit only for trash sites--or Presidential ones.
Thanks Tim for the input!
Perhaps if Kathy's (very creative) nickname is no good, let's use "Liddle Delta Dunn". Thoughts?
Oh look, the Dunce himself slinks in under a thin alias to preach about "civility" during the holiday season – how utterly predictable and pathetic. Spare us the sanctimonious drivel, Timothy. You've spent years flooding forums with endless walls of biased, debunked Delta fanboy nonsense, derailing every thread into your personal soapbox, and now you're clutching pearls over a harmless nickname?
If "Timothy 'The Dunce' Dunn" stings so much, maybe reflect on why the entire...
Oh look, the Dunce himself slinks in under a thin alias to preach about "civility" during the holiday season – how utterly predictable and pathetic. Spare us the sanctimonious drivel, Timothy. You've spent years flooding forums with endless walls of biased, debunked Delta fanboy nonsense, derailing every thread into your personal soapbox, and now you're clutching pearls over a harmless nickname?
If "Timothy 'The Dunce' Dunn" stings so much, maybe reflect on why the entire community slapped it on you in the first place: because your "opinions" are routinely clownish, data-free rants that make everyone roll their eyes. Attacking the person? Nah, we're just calling it like we see it – and the shoe fits perfectly.
This site isn't your safe space. If you can't handle the heat from years of being the forum's resident troll, log off and take your holiday resolutions elsewhere. The rest of us will keep mocking the Dunce as he deserves.
(Alos a quick tie-back: Speaking of overpriced delusions, at least Peninsula Manila delivers real luxury for $150–250/night – unlike whatever fantasy world the Dunce lives in...)
How's airliners.net ban treating you too by the way, Timothy??
Oh and yes, The Dunce was indeed banned from airliners.net years ago.
He posted there for a long time under the username "WorldTraveler" (and apparently tried sockpuppet accounts like "atl100million" after the ban). The aviation forum community got fed up with his obsessive, repetitive, data-twisting rants and the mods finally showed him the door.
That's why he migrated to spamming comment sections on sites like One Mile at a Time, View from the Wing, Cranky...
Oh and yes, The Dunce was indeed banned from airliners.net years ago.
He posted there for a long time under the username "WorldTraveler" (and apparently tried sockpuppet accounts like "atl100million" after the ban). The aviation forum community got fed up with his obsessive, repetitive, data-twisting rants and the mods finally showed him the door.
That's why he migrated to spamming comment sections on sites like One Mile at a Time, View from the Wing, Cranky Flier, and anywhere else that'll let him derail threads into his personal Delta shrine. The ban is legendary in those circles - even FlyerTalk and other blogs openly reference it when calling out his behavior.
Poor Dunce - banned from the big aviation playground, now reduced to preaching civility under aliases while clutching his pearls. Classic.
have a sex change, Max?
You can change your name but you can't hide that you are driven by the same rage that has defined you for years - a sheer hate that someone can talk about the issues in the airline industry and you cannot.
As usual, you and a half dozen other people cycle through an endless supply of fake user names - Max fraud-to engage in personal attacks because you can't debate...
have a sex change, Max?
You can change your name but you can't hide that you are driven by the same rage that has defined you for years - a sheer hate that someone can talk about the issues in the airline industry and you cannot.
As usual, you and a half dozen other people cycle through an endless supply of fake user names - Max fraud-to engage in personal attacks because you can't debate the topic.
The issue is whether this event occurred as recounted and if there is any proof, not hearsay, that supports that $15k, not $1500 should have been paid.
And the larger issue is not that anyone can find an anecdote of a failure in an industry that serves 1 billion customers/year just in the US.
Delta does have by far the best track record in the US airline industry - and probably the world - in converting invol DBs into vol DBs even though they run the highest LFs.
If you can focus your hateful little mind on that topic and debate it, we could all be grateful.
and it is an honor to not engage in the childish and endless arguments that define a.net. There are a few people that post data that are worth following even though a.net moderation has succeeded in driving some of the better contributors off the site
Ben does a great job of distilling down the stories that matter and allowing discussion on here.
and it is noteworthy that your comments that you make here would never be allowed on a.net so it is beyond hypocritical for you to talk about how great it is to participate on a.net compared to other sites.
and a.net does not get the most internet traffic among aviation chat sites.
Look at The Deuce Dunn throwing a full-blown tantrum because someone dared question Delta’s latest customer-screwing stunt. “Have a sex change, Max?” – real classy, Timmy. That’s the same rage-fueled, unhinged bile you’ve been spewing for decades across every forum that hasn’t already banned you. You’re the one driven by blind, obsessive Delta worship – incapable of admitting your sky god ever messes up, even when the evidence is staring everyone in the face.
You...
Look at The Deuce Dunn throwing a full-blown tantrum because someone dared question Delta’s latest customer-screwing stunt. “Have a sex change, Max?” – real classy, Timmy. That’s the same rage-fueled, unhinged bile you’ve been spewing for decades across every forum that hasn’t already banned you. You’re the one driven by blind, obsessive Delta worship – incapable of admitting your sky god ever messes up, even when the evidence is staring everyone in the face.
You whine about “fake usernames” while you’ve been caught using aliases here yourself to preach your “civility” gospel. Pot, meet kettle, you hypocritical clown.
The issue isn’t “hearsay” – it’s a Gold Medallion passenger recounting a crystal-clear onboard announcement of $15K to induce volunteers, acting in good faith with his family, only for Delta to renege and gaslight him afterward. That’s not an “anecdote”; that’s a textbook breach of trust that’s now blowing up across every travel site. But sure, keep hiding behind “prove it in court” while Delta’s PR takes another self-inflicted hit.
And spare us the tired “Delta has the best record” copypasta. Running the highest load factors just means they overbook the most aggressively – then pinch pennies when their greed backfires. World’s “best” at converting IDB to VDB? Congrats on the participation trophy while your customers get stiffed.
You got booted from airliners.net for exactly this toxic behavior, yet you still brag about it like it’s a badge of honor. Newsflash, Deuce: nobody misses your endless walls of cherry-picked stats and personal attacks there. Ben tolerates you here because free speech, not because your takes are worth the pixels.
Keep clutching those pearls and flinging wild accusations – it only proves everyone right about you. The Deuce Dunn strikes again: all noise, zero substance, infinite cope.
“Nonsense” Kath, utter nonsense, yes?
I suggest we be civil to each other when we engage and if we can't do so then we should not respond. Let comments that are derogatory go unanswered so they don't crowd out useful posts.
seems like a pretty straightforward small claims case. luckily for this gentleman, the small claims limit in utah is 15k. if i were him, i would be filing ASAP. not much to lose.
someone(s) just might need a refresher course in math and how decimals work but, just a reminder that DL consistently runs a 0.0% ratio of involuntary denied boardings while boarding the second most passengers according to DOT data. AA boards about 7% more passengers but they usually are in the bottom tier of US airlines in invol DBs.
When you consider that DL typically has one of the highest LFs of the big 4...
someone(s) just might need a refresher course in math and how decimals work but, just a reminder that DL consistently runs a 0.0% ratio of involuntary denied boardings while boarding the second most passengers according to DOT data. AA boards about 7% more passengers but they usually are in the bottom tier of US airlines in invol DBs.
When you consider that DL typically has one of the highest LFs of the big 4 and also has the highest number of voluntary DBs, they do an incredible job of converting DBs in order to not become involuntary and make a lot of people rich in the process.
It is fairly public knowledge that DL's cap is $10,000 which is way more than other airlines will offer - not as if that guy is supposed to know that.
I'll leave the two parties to claim what evidence they have to prove their claims; chances are it will come down to hearsay which is a pretty thin basis for winning.
as others said, if the deal seems too good to be true, hit the record button on your phone.
Timothy "The Dunce" Dunn after making a total fool of himself as he got badly beaten up by AeroB13a and the fake Eskimo in the comments, is at it again. He tried to lie about Philippine Airlines and went away with a major case of Depression. Now he’s throwing money at the Delta, looking for a job!
who peed in your cheerios?
either my statement(s) is/are correct or it is/they are not. feel free to address those statements.
and the PR slugfest was not between me and anyone else. clean the scratches off your contacts.
btw, which user name have you ditched to create yet another one as an admission of your failure to win the debate under your last 25 user names?
Timothy "The Dunce" Dunn, a total loser, is being decimated by people all over the OMAAT, especially since they know and admire the many GREAT people that comment. They are very “INTELLIGENT” and, likewise, very “STRONG.” The Dunce has been hit so hard that he was forced to issue an apology, but his apology is worthless. I’ve known him a long time. He’s a bad guy, with major character flaws. He’s also very weak and...
Timothy "The Dunce" Dunn, a total loser, is being decimated by people all over the OMAAT, especially since they know and admire the many GREAT people that comment. They are very “INTELLIGENT” and, likewise, very “STRONG.” The Dunce has been hit so hard that he was forced to issue an apology, but his apology is worthless. I’ve known him a long time. He’s a bad guy, with major character flaws. He’s also very weak and insecure, and will do and say anything for publicity. He was a staunch supporter of Lufthansa and is now a supporter of Delta, but that’s only because I don’t reply to his many comments anymore - Just don’t have the time or inclination to do so. He can never recover from the horrible statement he made yesterday about United, but he is going to have to try, because what he said was totally unacceptable!
Kath, thank you for aiding Ben’s, click count by constantly posting what you quite rightly characterise as “Nonsense”. Please be advised that that you and your three fans are keeping up the website tradition of acting like the Christmas trolls of the worst order, yes?
I think its extremely important that we 1) be civil and 2) respond to each other. I hope you feel the same.
I've posted a bunch of stuff which I hope you will respond to but you asked for a response so here's mine.
It's not hearsay to testify what someone told you when the other party is in the courtroom. That person can be put under oath to testify as to what they said....
I think its extremely important that we 1) be civil and 2) respond to each other. I hope you feel the same.
I've posted a bunch of stuff which I hope you will respond to but you asked for a response so here's mine.
It's not hearsay to testify what someone told you when the other party is in the courtroom. That person can be put under oath to testify as to what they said. Maybe they tell the truth, maybe not. Its up to the judge to decide.
You are correct when you say that if a deal sounds too good to be true a judge might be inclined to rule against this passenger. But its not at all clear that the facts indicate this is the case.
You state that its common knowledge that DL has a cap but I have never heard of this, never seen it written anywhere and I've have flown well over a million miles across scores of airlines the past 50 years. I doubt a judge would expect someone, particularly a less traveled passenger, to know this is fact, even assuming it could be shown to be true (meaning that DL had never exceeded the amount you state and has a written internal policy that forbid doing so).
The best way to make a case is to lay out the facts that support your position. You may well be right that the passenger wouldn't win this case but if that's the way you feel then convince us WHY.
Does anyone have link to that article? I am fascinated to read it
So much stuff flying around. What article?
He's never going to get $15K. He should take the $1.5K and miles and be happy.
Well it was a “man and his husband” so an argument can be made that they were additionally discriminated against based on their sexual orientation. Had it been a straight male the 15k would have been honored already. Delta needs to pay up.
No idea what I read. Thought it was 2 men and a baby. Need to adjust my glasses.
"Need to adjust my glasses."
And your ridiculous RWNJ victim perspective.
My bet for today, is that this article will attract posts in excess of 100 comments, not including those Tim which will need to respond too.
Quite correct! Timothy "The Dunce" Dunn will be hard at work spewing TOTAL NONSENSE.
…. and on the “Nonsense” front, Kathy, you are well in the lead old girl, yes?
You're one to talk!
Absolutely Kath, I could always “Talk” about how much “Nonsense”, you are gibbering on about lass. Keep on posting Kath, so that Ben, can continue to up his click count, yes.
They would never start with $15,000. Total BS
How is it total BS if they're acknowledging the offer was made? They would never admit that it was "inadvertently" offered if they hadn't confirmed that it happened. The likely scenario is that the gate agent read the wrong number off the screen, and there's obviously no way they could honor it right then and there.
Where you're correct is that this isn't an offer that Delta would ever make in this scenario, and...
How is it total BS if they're acknowledging the offer was made? They would never admit that it was "inadvertently" offered if they hadn't confirmed that it happened. The likely scenario is that the gate agent read the wrong number off the screen, and there's obviously no way they could honor it right then and there.
Where you're correct is that this isn't an offer that Delta would ever make in this scenario, and that's why they're refusing to honor it. It's similar to a "fat finger" error where it's so egregious that the company will sometimes stick to its guns (like some error fares). While they have some basis for making this argument, they should have been much more generous with a proposed resolution given the specific circumstances and limited applicability. And if this gains any traction they're likely going to end up paying out the full $15k anyway for PR purposes.
One can easily claim “company x said/admitted via email” and could also easily Dr up an email when forwarding it to ‘prove’ something.
Only a court could compel the actual email record so we will never know… especially over $1.5-$15k, but I’m quite confident this is all fabricated.
Notwithstanding what you or I or anyone may think, Delta admitted in writing that the $15K was announced:
"In email communication after the fact, the airline acknowledged that the $15,000 number was 'unintentionally' shared, but refused to honor it."
One presumes that the CoC it will force the customer into arbitration, which he will lose, of course, however the facts do seem to point to the offer being made.
No jury is going to find in favor of the plaintiff. That obviously is a mistake and merchants do not have to honor.
love how the pax should have known it was "obviously a mistake" when the FA and GA, both of whom actually work for the airline, did not
"It's not lies, it's bs"
- Elwood Blues
I love all these suggestions about video and audio. Write it down! You know, with a pen, on paper. Then challenge The Delta employee to sign the paper, with employee number, date, time, place. They won't, of course, but that's how you know it's bs. Another tactic might be to ask captain to witness the verbal promise. They have a professional association with code of ethics, putting...
"It's not lies, it's bs"
- Elwood Blues
I love all these suggestions about video and audio. Write it down! You know, with a pen, on paper. Then challenge The Delta employee to sign the paper, with employee number, date, time, place. They won't, of course, but that's how you know it's bs. Another tactic might be to ask captain to witness the verbal promise. They have a professional association with code of ethics, putting him in jeopardy if he lies about it later.
It's kinda gross that any of this is necessary.
It doesn’t matter. It clearly was a mistake. Passenger is not going to win in court. $1500 and 20k miles is a good haul. Assuming the person didn’t stay being in Maldives or something. lol.
It doesn't matter, legally, if it was a "mistake." Delta made the offer and the passenger accepted it. That's a contract.
You don't know what you're talking about. The only legal way out of this for Delta is on a mistake doctrine that the passenger knew or should have known it was a mistake -- that might work if it was $150k, but $15k does not seem out of the realm of possibility. (The...
It doesn't matter, legally, if it was a "mistake." Delta made the offer and the passenger accepted it. That's a contract.
You don't know what you're talking about. The only legal way out of this for Delta is on a mistake doctrine that the passenger knew or should have known it was a mistake -- that might work if it was $150k, but $15k does not seem out of the realm of possibility. (The fact that it was a written offer is irrelevant to whether it's a contract or not.) And the passenger confirmed the offer multiple times, which suggested to them it wasn't a mistake.
As others have mentioned, glad to see this could be brought to small claims court in Utah.
Merry Christmas.
You can find me on flight radar, my registration is R3DN053
If he can find a lawyer, he should most definitely sue.
My closest comparison is about 10 years ago. I was in Amsterdam for a flight home to Detroit. Delta. It was oversold. They offered $500 in vouchers, which at the time was pretty good, and business-class on a later flight. They flew me in KLM business-class from Amsterdam to Heathrow. When I arrived in Heathrow, I didn't have business-class for Heathrow to Detroit....
If he can find a lawyer, he should most definitely sue.
My closest comparison is about 10 years ago. I was in Amsterdam for a flight home to Detroit. Delta. It was oversold. They offered $500 in vouchers, which at the time was pretty good, and business-class on a later flight. They flew me in KLM business-class from Amsterdam to Heathrow. When I arrived in Heathrow, I didn't have business-class for Heathrow to Detroit. The red coat supervisor at Heathrow claimed there all she could give me was an economy seat in the last row of the aircraft.
This is why it's essentially to record these moments on your phone, especially in one-party consent jurisdictions.
They will definitely get pissed when people ie everyone turn their camera phones to record when they promise that going forward! lol then they will cry about how they were forced to honor it lol
Might be a good idea to video these types of situations. Do not need to video the faces of people but at least have audio.
Yeah going forward if I ever got an offer like that, I'd ask the FA if I could record them saying it