An air traffic controller at LaGuardia was being a jerk, and a Delta pilot called him out for it… kudos to him, I think!
In this post:
Rude LaGuardia controller gets called out, doesn’t like it
VASAviation has the scoop on what happened at New York LaGuardia Airport (LGA) at around 5PM on Wednesday, July 30, 2025. There was a ground stop at the airport due to thunderstorms. LaGuardia can be an operational mess under the best of circumstances, let alone when operations are interrupted.
During this ground stop, there were a lot of planes on taxiways waiting for their turn. Of course the bad weather is no one’s fault, and air traffic controllers don’t have a crystal ball.
However, understandably pilots want to get a sense of where they are in the sequence, given all the operational considerations (including fuel). After all, no passengers want to be stuck on a plane on a taxiway for hours, only to be told by the pilots that there’s no longer enough fuel, and they need to return to the gate.
So on Wednesday evening, the way the air traffic controller (or in this case, ground controller) communicated with pilots left a lot to be desired, as he took a staunch “not my problem” attitude.
First the pilot of United flight UA2005 bound for Chicago (ORD) asked what kind of a delay could be expected, and the air traffic controller responded with “yeah, from now till midnight you’ll get out of here.” The pilot responded with “yeah, well, we got some fuel concerns,” to which the controller snapped back “roger, fuel management is your priority, not mine.”
Next, the pilot of Delta flight DL999 bound for Detroit (DTW) asked what the plane’s sequence was, and then quite the interaction unfolded:
Air traffic controller: “From now till midnight.”
Delta pilot: “That’s not a good answer, but thanks for…”
Air traffic controller: “That’s the best I can do, if you want a better answer, contact your dispatch or your company.”
Delta pilot: “No, your line up here is, I’m just looking for a sequence for fuel management, and yes, that’s part of your problem.”
Air traffic controller: “Yes, sir, fuel management is your priority, not mine.”
Delta pilot: “You’re an idiot.”
Air traffic controller: “I got a number for you whenever you’re ready.”
Delta pilot: “Oh, I want it! We wanna talk.”
Air traffic controller: “Delta 999, I got a phone number whenever you’re ready.”
Delta pilot: “Pass it along.”
Air traffic controller: “347-846-XXXX.”
Delta pilot: “Yeah, I want to talk to your manager.”
Air traffic controller: “Yes sir, manager is up here, he’s looking forward to the call.”
The Delta jet ended up staying in its position for around an hour, and then returned to the gate. The flight ended up departing around six hours behind schedule.
The controller’s unprofessionalism is astounding
Air traffic controllers have stressful jobs, and a vast majority of them try their best, and don’t have an attitude. But then you have a small minority of controllers who seemingly make it their mission to find any way to exert power and put pilots in their place.
This controller is the perfect example of that. His canned answer to every question was basically “you’ll depart in the next seven hours.” That is the definition of unhelpful. One would hope the controller could provide a bit more clarity on the sequence, but even if he couldn’t, there’s a polite way to say things.
How about instead just saying “I wish I had an answer, but your guess is as good as mine,” or something? But his answer was intentionally incendiary, and just intended as a middle finger to pilots.
Now, it wasn’t professional for the Delta pilot to call him an idiot. But I do kind of respect how he challenges the controller, and I love his enthusiasm for getting a number to call (which is usually something that pilots dread).
Bottom line
A New York LaGuardia air traffic controller with an attitude got a taste of his own medicine, when a pilot called him an idiot, after he was intentionally unhelpful. The conversation escalated, with the controller giving the pilot a number to call, and the pilot enthusiastically taking that down.
While neither party exactly showed professionalism, I definitely side with the Delta pilot, for his premium comeback and enthusiasm… 😉
What do you make of this LGA ATC interaction?
Flying into LaGuardia next week and reading this makes me nervous. I hope that guy isn't working there anymore.
New York controllers are often unnecessarily rude condescending and unsafe. I have been asked to takeoff and land an airliner at JFK with a tailwind. i understand there are airspace limitations, but there's NO excuse for the controllers impediments to communication when safety should be everyone's primary concern. In a GA plane they talk to you like you are stupid. I have had clearances rescinded after a hand off between controllers and a demand to...
New York controllers are often unnecessarily rude condescending and unsafe. I have been asked to takeoff and land an airliner at JFK with a tailwind. i understand there are airspace limitations, but there's NO excuse for the controllers impediments to communication when safety should be everyone's primary concern. In a GA plane they talk to you like you are stupid. I have had clearances rescinded after a hand off between controllers and a demand to exit the class B. After a full military career, 38 years part 121, now occasional GA I can say New York controllers are the worst in the world, followed closely by Miami and Frankfurt Germany. THEY ARE NOT SAFE, jeopardizing flights in their airspace. There are a few good, polite controllers that do a fantastic job in the same environment.
Delta and ATC …. magic click-bait Ben …. :-)
Pretty awful. It's clear that ATC isn't suited to the job- those are all people sitting out there, and not caring about them can be a very bad thing. Making things work well, safely, and efficiently AND being compassionate should the default minimum requirement, otherwise they are in the wrong line of work. This guy failed on most of those counts.
Also, is this mostly an American thing? Do other countries ATC have the combination...
Pretty awful. It's clear that ATC isn't suited to the job- those are all people sitting out there, and not caring about them can be a very bad thing. Making things work well, safely, and efficiently AND being compassionate should the default minimum requirement, otherwise they are in the wrong line of work. This guy failed on most of those counts.
Also, is this mostly an American thing? Do other countries ATC have the combination of surly and incompetent that we see surface here?
I arrived at LGA ahead of that storm and left the next day. I think the same controller was on duty Thursday afternoon. Our pilot did an amazing job of keeping us informed for our nearly three hours waiting to take off and he kept saying "well, I don't know where we are in line, but I think we're between x and y in line. Definitely an information desert on the tarmac at LGA.
Some of the remarks fail to realize that the controllers are handling FEWER flights than normal when airports go into ATC flow control.
In NYC, flights immediately get cancelled because airlines know they cannot operate near as many flights when weather delays operations.
If weather conditions reduce the number of flights that can depart or arrive, then there are more lined up.
Controllers also need to recognize that there are federal limits on how...
Some of the remarks fail to realize that the controllers are handling FEWER flights than normal when airports go into ATC flow control.
In NYC, flights immediately get cancelled because airlines know they cannot operate near as many flights when weather delays operations.
If weather conditions reduce the number of flights that can depart or arrive, then there are more lined up.
Controllers also need to recognize that there are federal limits on how long pilots can be on duty so the comments below that pilots need to accept that they will get out when they get out and should "fill the tanks for any length of delay" is just not reasonable and not often not even always technically possible.
Airlines do not immediately start canceling flights because LGA or JFK issue a ground stop or shut off departures. If ATC issues a GDP (ground delay program) an airline will evaluate the program, analyze the weather causing the program, and then decide whether or not to put together a cancellation package. If they do preemptively cancel flights they cancel inbound flights and the subsequent outbound flights so it can be several hours before ATC starts...
Airlines do not immediately start canceling flights because LGA or JFK issue a ground stop or shut off departures. If ATC issues a GDP (ground delay program) an airline will evaluate the program, analyze the weather causing the program, and then decide whether or not to put together a cancellation package. If they do preemptively cancel flights they cancel inbound flights and the subsequent outbound flights so it can be several hours before ATC starts seeing less traffic. A controller’s job is separating aircraft not calculating minimum takeoff fuel or mandatory off times. Those are the responsibilities of the flight crew and their dispatcher. And while there are a lot of new controllers out there, there are also a lot of new first officers flying with junior captains, and not giving them much help. Incidents like this one are not surprising given the current environment.
The FAA posts their expectations for ground delay activity the day before. They have meteorologists that know what is likely to happen.
and, yes, airlines often do that cancelling flights when expected delays are likely. you honestly should track ATC delays and cancellations esp. in the NE if you don't understand the relationship. At ATL or ORD, airlines sit it out as long as they can before cancelling but not at the NYC airports...
The FAA posts their expectations for ground delay activity the day before. They have meteorologists that know what is likely to happen.
and, yes, airlines often do that cancelling flights when expected delays are likely. you honestly should track ATC delays and cancellations esp. in the NE if you don't understand the relationship. At ATL or ORD, airlines sit it out as long as they can before cancelling but not at the NYC airports - because they can't ever recover if delays are extensive and long-lasting as was the case when this incident took place.
on Thursday, 1/3 of LGA flights were cancelled. Airlines understand full well what happens when bad weather sets in and is expected to remain.
and it is ATC's job to inform traffic of delays including the current rate at which traffic is being moved.
and, once again, the notion that ATC is swamped in bad weather is false.
They handle less traffic because of the weather.
and they don't have to provide individual accounts. They can and often do inform traffic - perhaps via the ATC command center which closely works w/ airlines - of the current flow of traffic based on current weather.
nobody said that ATC is responsible for calculating fuel including the pilots involved. Pilots can do that but they have to some basic information to work including expected taxi times. and people below are simply incorrect that an aircraft can be filled up w/ the expectation of a length delay for takeoff.
there are a lot of caustic controllers in NYC that are not representative of the bunch. but they are caustic nonetheless. It is precisely actions of the DL and UA pilots that highlight the problem. It isn't the 90% that manage to get the job done well. It is the 10% that need to understand the way they relate to others is unacceptable.
It is precisely because of attitudes like yours that we are stuck with poor service regardless of the provider - and it does not need to be that way
Actually in a situation like this one the ground controller at LGA is much busier than they normally are and it’s even worse at JFK. When there are 15 to 20 aircraft trying to depart it’s pretty stupid for the flight that’s number 20 in line to ask what his sequence is. I didn’t like the controller’s remarks but I can understand his frustration. Frequency congestion is a major safety issue for the controller because...
Actually in a situation like this one the ground controller at LGA is much busier than they normally are and it’s even worse at JFK. When there are 15 to 20 aircraft trying to depart it’s pretty stupid for the flight that’s number 20 in line to ask what his sequence is. I didn’t like the controller’s remarks but I can understand his frustration. Frequency congestion is a major safety issue for the controller because there is always a chance a pilot might miss a turn and taxi onto an active runway. While Delta might be whining about their fuel status the controller might be screaming at another flight to stop moving and both transmissions get stepped on.
As far as airlines canceling ahead of time the fact that this situation developed belies your statements about proactive cancellations. Airlines will cancel ahead of time when there are forecasts of heavy snow or if a hurricane is heading toward NYC but they do not cancel just because there are thunderstorms in the TAFs.
In the IOC I worked in for almost 30 years we would sometimes refer to the IOC as the Wait and See because management wouldn’t approve a proactive cancellation package when it seemed so obvious that we needed to. Perhaps you could get hired as an IOC MOD and show the airlines how to do it.
A stupid 'perfect storm' of competing toxic masculinity from over-inflated arrogant egos....
Too bad the [little} bois just couldn't take it outside in the WX and settle it 'like real men' !
... Maybe time for both to look for another job or retirement and do their colleagues & public a favor !
Pilots remind me of the kids in the back seat. "Are we there yet?" "How much longer until we get there?" "I need to go to the bathroom."
What are ATC trained to do? Are they taught that their job is to operate a "take a number" machine? If the job description requires estimating how long weather delays will last, then how much training do they get in meteorology?
The kids should have...
Pilots remind me of the kids in the back seat. "Are we there yet?" "How much longer until we get there?" "I need to go to the bathroom."
What are ATC trained to do? Are they taught that their job is to operate a "take a number" machine? If the job description requires estimating how long weather delays will last, then how much training do they get in meteorology?
The kids should have used the bathroom before getting in the car. The pilots should have checked the fuel needed for an unpredictable delay, before leaving the gate.
I'd prefer that my pilot hadn't been irritated before flying
The other thing we should keep in mind is the number of these reports vs the number of flights per day out of these super busy hubs. Some things are more likely to be reported because they make clicky news, some are reported because it's urgent. I have worked in aviation safety for a long time and I can tell you I don't see any one area that is more problematic than another per capita especially within the usa. Outside of the US is another story...
As an air traffic controller with over 45 years of experience I find that for some reason the controllers in New York and surrounding areas feel as though they have to be a smart-ass when they talk on the radios. We know for a fact that he will be listening to the tapes with his supervisor and there will be discipline , hopefully. I agree that the comment from the pilot was also childish. This...
As an air traffic controller with over 45 years of experience I find that for some reason the controllers in New York and surrounding areas feel as though they have to be a smart-ass when they talk on the radios. We know for a fact that he will be listening to the tapes with his supervisor and there will be discipline , hopefully. I agree that the comment from the pilot was also childish. This is 5 minutes of conversation that they'll never get back it doesn't need to be happening. That's why down here in the South we're just a little bit too friendly on the radio. This type of attitude has got to stop all the way from Kennedy Steve to the lowest level of air traffic controllers in that area. They're not taught that way in training and I don't know why they feel as though they have to act like that when they're working position. Maybe some of the controllers in New York will learn from this guy and from everybody else that tends to have that attitude and make it a nicer place to fly into. And please don't come across like you don't like doing your job. If you don't like it quit.
I thought controllers had to retire when they reached 56 years old.
I swear 90% of these rude ATC incidents come out of the NY area
Everything about the NY story is bad.
I have decided to never have NYC as a connection, let alone go there.
To many bad experiences, including Delta ground personnel.
I'm sure you'll find plenty of award routes out of Boise.
I don’t know if I would have responded in the same manner but as a former ATC I can understand the situation. The Delta pilot was acting like they’ve never experienced this situation. It’s weather. No one knows what’s going to happen. The pilot should know that. It’s grandstanding. Don’t act like you are ordering food at a restaurant and don’t like how long it took to get your order. The weather is not under...
I don’t know if I would have responded in the same manner but as a former ATC I can understand the situation. The Delta pilot was acting like they’ve never experienced this situation. It’s weather. No one knows what’s going to happen. The pilot should know that. It’s grandstanding. Don’t act like you are ordering food at a restaurant and don’t like how long it took to get your order. The weather is not under our control. Rest assured, if we know the answer to your question we would tell you. It’s that simple. Stop making more of it.
The controller could have replied to that in a positive way. You're going to have to come across like it's hurting him to be civil and his transmission to the aircraft.
Delta pilot: “You’re an idiot.”
There is a cultural thing in the NYC area that can easily be construed as rudeness, but they don't really mean anything by it. Way back when, I worked for a small Independent Software Vendor in North Carolina. I had to take support calls from customers in NJ who could be ... emphatic. By then I had lived in the South for a few years, so I just had to stay calm and remind myself...
There is a cultural thing in the NYC area that can easily be construed as rudeness, but they don't really mean anything by it. Way back when, I worked for a small Independent Software Vendor in North Carolina. I had to take support calls from customers in NJ who could be ... emphatic. By then I had lived in the South for a few years, so I just had to stay calm and remind myself that was just the way they communicated. The same guy that got angry enough to employ colorful metaphors also wrote a letter to my boss about how helpful I had been.
My criticism of the ATC would be that he could dish it out but couldn't take it. Blow your horn at someone in the City and they will acknowledge by flipping the bird. My criticism of both of these guys is that they didn't know when to turn it off. Neither blowing the horn nor flipping the bird changes the situation.
I left nyc 2 decades ago and moved to a much smaller city then to an even smaller city. I can tell you I much rather deal with super direct NYers. People in these smaller towns are incredibly passive aggressive. They waste so much time because they don't agree with you but can't voice it. I keep telling them I won't be offended, they can just tell me what they want and we can find...
I left nyc 2 decades ago and moved to a much smaller city then to an even smaller city. I can tell you I much rather deal with super direct NYers. People in these smaller towns are incredibly passive aggressive. They waste so much time because they don't agree with you but can't voice it. I keep telling them I won't be offended, they can just tell me what they want and we can find a solution. But nope, rarely can I get through. A few good ones do and eventually they are in charge. The rest are just lifelong yes men. I get more frustrated and angry working in these cities than I ever did in nyc.
In the air traffic control world we have rules it's called the 7110.65. There is no section in that regulation that says cultural radio transmission for New York. The phraseology is set in stone. It has nothing to do with where you're at.
I had a tour of another large airport ATC tower last year. It wasn't LGA, but another large NYC area airport.
"is there anything you ask of pilots?".
ATC: "Please don't ask where you are in line, if there is a line it's because we are very busy behind the scenes and we don't know the order, or the order is changing as routes open and close".
Maybe the Delta pilot next...
I had a tour of another large airport ATC tower last year. It wasn't LGA, but another large NYC area airport.
"is there anything you ask of pilots?".
ATC: "Please don't ask where you are in line, if there is a line it's because we are very busy behind the scenes and we don't know the order, or the order is changing as routes open and close".
Maybe the Delta pilot next time can control himself and visit an ATC facility so he understands what is going on.
I question the capacity of an airline captain that calls people "idiots" when they don't like the (correct) answer.
Delta pilot: “You’re an idiot.”
We all know how this controller jerk communicates with non English native speaking pilots, who will definitely stand down and retreat. But then again, they may not ask this question while patiently waiting for their turn to take off. It is the reason why we do not hear this confrontation from foreign pilots, both English native and non native
speakers.
Controller, a through understanding of convective weather and forecasting conditions in and around 200 miles of airport and effects on aircraft performance capabilities and airspace constraints having answered this question numerous times over the years only results in being asked the very same question by the very same aircraft only moments later now that the pilot is paying attention.
Company officials of airlines need to hire weather forecasters and planners to handle events prior...
Controller, a through understanding of convective weather and forecasting conditions in and around 200 miles of airport and effects on aircraft performance capabilities and airspace constraints having answered this question numerous times over the years only results in being asked the very same question by the very same aircraft only moments later now that the pilot is paying attention.
Company officials of airlines need to hire weather forecasters and planners to handle events prior to loading people into planes at that point it’s too late and purely a reactionary event. These conversations are nothing and do nothing except kill time, entertainment for those bound to the ramp and fodder for the grist. Controllers are loath to engage and actively seek to shut it down so they may focus on more productive activities such as keeping flight plans updated with airspace impacts that are being assigned. The programs
A centrally managed and executed at the tower level with no ability to change. It is super frustrating unrelenting error prone
Delta pilot: “You’re an idiot.”
Completely wrong.
First, airline can hire whoever they want, it still won't cover this issue, because even though they may have information on weather, they have no idea about the traffic situation at the airport, sequencing situation, etc.
Second, if you are super busy with other tasks, I understand, but how about not making situation worse by creating further conflicts, thus more workload and blocking the frequency? This is the same issue as US...
Completely wrong.
First, airline can hire whoever they want, it still won't cover this issue, because even though they may have information on weather, they have no idea about the traffic situation at the airport, sequencing situation, etc.
Second, if you are super busy with other tasks, I understand, but how about not making situation worse by creating further conflicts, thus more workload and blocking the frequency? This is the same issue as US cabin crews, who seem to always escalate situation instead of deescalating it. If the controller replied politely with something like "I'm sorry, but I don't have any forecast available at this moment", he would spend far less time dealing with this than he did using his idiotic response.
First of all , the controller job requires to be a true professional and his first response wasn’t of the professionalism required to address the situation and if his supervisor was there , he also needs to be written up for allowing that childish attitude in a very tense and important area ! So yes the controller was an idiot and immature !
a job is a job, and whatever the art traffic controllers are required to do, they must do it and not do a control freak attitude. The pilot seeks to preserve the lives of himself and his passengers- both are responsible for the fuel and the lives of the people. The air traffic controller was definitely acting immaturely, irresponsibly like a petulant child. I feel for the pilot. How frustrating!
I spent 32+ years (1961-1993) as an FAA Air traffic controller, including 12+ years at Chicago ORD and LAX Tower/TRACON. This controller should be removed immediately before he does something that results in a horrible accident. Air traffic controllers are paid to provide a service. Where was his supervisor?
The supervisor is probably an even bigger jerk. Welcome to New York, assholes.
Hey Neil, happy anniversary a day early.
There are going to be plenty of LGA controllers reading these comments: When we call for taxi, we have no way of knowing if our departure fix is closed (or later…open), unless you tell us. The same controller in this video randomly parked us on DD on a quiet day last month. Is it really that hard to tell us if we have a flow time (including the exact time), or whatever else the issue...
There are going to be plenty of LGA controllers reading these comments: When we call for taxi, we have no way of knowing if our departure fix is closed (or later…open), unless you tell us. The same controller in this video randomly parked us on DD on a quiet day last month. Is it really that hard to tell us if we have a flow time (including the exact time), or whatever else the issue is? Why give us attitude if we ask? I get that Nick Daniels is not getting it done and is probably compromised. I get it. We understand you guys are getting screwed right now. We understand that you guys are figuring out that you don’t get unscrewed by being obedient. A few of us even remember LGA controllers single handedly ended that huge government shutdown years ago. That was awesome! But if you don’t want to be on the same team and work together with us on nights like this to AT LEAST EXCHANGE INFORMATION….we remember how to be disobedient as well -> remember “unable LAHSO” in the late ‘90s…etc? On monday, we were getting our butts kicked at FL300 and picking up ice. We needed higher. Center said “I don’t have time for requests right now” with the same snark as this video. This crap is starting to get dangerous. If you keep pushing and cross that line that puts our passengers at an unacceptable level of systemic risk……and you keep giving us more and more snark…..one day soon we are going to push back pretty hard. But for now, we’re still cool, I think. F___ Nick Daniels.
The pilot is the controller 's customer. Together they are a team providing safety to the service of flying people. This a serious systemic problem to be addressed by the FAA.
Maybe they should just introduce tipping the ATC?
That and maybe a [increased] tariff or two should nip this in the bud within the 1st day !!
... lol
@Lucky - you are wrong on this one.
100% ATC was being a jerk.
1000000% the DL pilot was 100000000% wrong.
You just don't do that. Deescalate. You file a complaint later. They have the tapes.
DL pilot went too far calling hm an idiot.
ATC's job IS TO provide some sense of how quickly aircraft will move.
Calling anyone an idiot doesn't make it any better but given that multiple pilots were asking the same thing and there was not a satisfactory answer to anyone, then it is reasonable to escalate in some way.
and filing a complaint doesn't get an answer for those pilots that need to know whether they need to go back to the gate...
ATC's job IS TO provide some sense of how quickly aircraft will move.
Calling anyone an idiot doesn't make it any better but given that multiple pilots were asking the same thing and there was not a satisfactory answer to anyone, then it is reasonable to escalate in some way.
and filing a complaint doesn't get an answer for those pilots that need to know whether they need to go back to the gate and potentially see their flight cancelled.
Even if ATC couldn't have given a complete answer to anyone, they should have been able to say "we are currently getting departures out at the rate of one flight every five minutes and you are number X on the list"
Delta pilot: “You’re an idiot.”
Agree with Miami305. ATC was way off base; DL pilot almost as far off base. I’m former ATC. I had my moments of being annoyed. Maybe blew off a little steam when the mike wasn’t keyed. I wouldn’t let emotional overtake my professionalism while actively working position. In all my years as both USAF and FAA controller, only one time did I ask a pilot to call the tower. And, I really hated it when...
Agree with Miami305. ATC was way off base; DL pilot almost as far off base. I’m former ATC. I had my moments of being annoyed. Maybe blew off a little steam when the mike wasn’t keyed. I wouldn’t let emotional overtake my professionalism while actively working position. In all my years as both USAF and FAA controller, only one time did I ask a pilot to call the tower. And, I really hated it when a colleague would put a pilot in the penalty box. That always accomplished exactly nothing, except prove that my colleague was a jerk. One last rant, tied to this overall topic: standard ATC phraseology has taken a nosedive in this country. That will someday be the primary cause of a major incident.
"Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it."
UA2005 - Captain, this is a ground stop. I have no idea how long it will be, and I have no idea of your fuel situation. Check with your boss.
or
Captain, I'm sorry I'm a little busy right now. While you are just sitting there, why don't you have your company check with the NWS for the weather forecast for...
"Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it."
UA2005 - Captain, this is a ground stop. I have no idea how long it will be, and I have no idea of your fuel situation. Check with your boss.
or
Captain, I'm sorry I'm a little busy right now. While you are just sitting there, why don't you have your company check with the NWS for the weather forecast for ORD, if you don't already have it. Right now our best guess is seven hours or until mid-night. If you know how much fuel you have and how much you are burning while idling for seven hours, you should be able to determine when you will have to refuel. Give me a call when you decide to return to the gate and I will be happy to make sure you get there safely.
"Delta 999 you're number ten"
What ethnic background was the air traffic controller?
Klingon, not that it’s relevant to this discussion.
Looked like United asked first, but then Delta piled on and refused to be talked to in that manner. Atlanta area controller here. Delta and anybody that flies in the south are not used to that treatment. Condescension at that level is a typically Northern or northeastern thing, it doesn't take any more effort or words to be kind.
Definitely ATC needs to be assimilated by Borgs, not that it’s relevant to this discussion.
Ah..... so it does make sense now and explain the hostility !
..lol
Why are you asking?
In my thousand plus hours of private pilot flying only had one controller ever be rude. In marginal VFR he denied my request for a flight following. I can understand that things get busy, but it would’ve been helpful and what wasn’t helpful was entirely rude attitude Later that evening I spoke to The controller supervisor and he apologized. Mostly those guys are 100% courteous, professional, and helpful.Meakin
How many of your 1000+ plus flying is dealing with JFK LGA?
Controller myself at an enroute facility. I'm gonna guess the LGA ground controller was stressed out. Pilots don't understand what we are facing on our side of the mic. They may here not much on the radios - but in the cab, tracon, or center, there quite likely is chaos occuring. Sometimes we snap and it comes over the radio that way.
On the flip side - yeah, there are some controllers who are...
Controller myself at an enroute facility. I'm gonna guess the LGA ground controller was stressed out. Pilots don't understand what we are facing on our side of the mic. They may here not much on the radios - but in the cab, tracon, or center, there quite likely is chaos occuring. Sometimes we snap and it comes over the radio that way.
On the flip side - yeah, there are some controllers who are just condescending a-holes all the time. I work with one of them. I try and cancel that controller's attitude out by being as professional and friendly with pilots. I snap only when necessary (example of a pilot not listening up when the freq is obviously busy, or deviating on their own without asking me first (they are IFR and could be turning right into traffic I'm working near them that they aren't aware of), etc).
New York ATC: noun, condescending a-holes, all the time.
He used that sentence twice, so it's not a one-off snap. Surely a short polite explanation that he doesn't have the information available at the time would deliver the same information without creating the conflict and more workload for himself? This was just a power trip, nothing else.
the FAA has not had a great week at hearings regarding the DC accident earlier this year (hard to call it an accident when the FAA and airlines knew for years that there were multiple holes that would eventually line up to allow a disaster).
the simple reason why you don't here of incidents like this is because American culture, unlike in other developed countries, allows people to demonstrate their feelings.
and the sad reality...
the FAA has not had a great week at hearings regarding the DC accident earlier this year (hard to call it an accident when the FAA and airlines knew for years that there were multiple holes that would eventually line up to allow a disaster).
the simple reason why you don't here of incidents like this is because American culture, unlike in other developed countries, allows people to demonstrate their feelings.
and the sad reality is that there are nowhere near enough trained controllers who want to work in NYC to replace people like this even if there was a mechanism to send them to a back office in Oklahoma City for the rest of their careers.
it was a brutally hot July. thank goodness it is normal or lower temps; it is 68 degrees F in NYC this morning with pleasant weather forecast.
Everyone needs a couple weeks of normal airline operations
"American culture, unlike in other developed countries, allows people to demonstrate their feelings" - You must be kidding.
Yeah Tim, Poms and Aussies never speak their minds.
I verify Uncle Rs comments. Worked for several Aussie state governments and Federal once. Wonderful people, but it's different in a conference room or work situation, where you see the other side. On the other hand they'll usually go out for a beer together after resolving the confrontation.
What a load of BS
We show feelings in Europe and it’s 40c in Madrid and Seville.
do you allow people in their jobs to trash other people including in a position like ATC? THAT Is the question and not that Europeans or Aussies are incapable of showing emotion.
Tim, you demonstrate too much feelings, especially for Delta.
You've failed the Dunn ancestors, you're too American.
Schools, colleges and training centers do not teach interpersonal skills. They teach knowledge and other marketable skills. Parents and grandparents do. It is American culture to display confrontation, defiance, aggression, scapegoat, etc...Name any
profession that do not compound stress. These misbehavior and unprofessionalism are learned from politicians, reality TV shows, and social media. If parents fulfill their responsibilities accordingly, these problems will be mitigated. It costs nothing to be civil but you do not...
Schools, colleges and training centers do not teach interpersonal skills. They teach knowledge and other marketable skills. Parents and grandparents do. It is American culture to display confrontation, defiance, aggression, scapegoat, etc...Name any
profession that do not compound stress. These misbehavior and unprofessionalism are learned from politicians, reality TV shows, and social media. If parents fulfill their responsibilities accordingly, these problems will be mitigated. It costs nothing to be civil but you do not have to be nice to rude people. You do not need laws,
regulatory agencies and management to shape our behavior and attitude. If you need them, you are not ready to join the workforce. Americans are ignorant of world cultures but they love dearly to lecture and preach others how to run their countries and their lives -- highly hypocritical. We need to self-criticize and self-discipline ourselves rather than patronizing and rationalizing our misbehavior and misconduct.
Typical bridge and tunnel NYC native. When he graduated from his awful public high school his choices where the sanitation dept or air traffic controller.
And he is the lowest of the low in terms of air traffic controller. He is a ground controller.
I can't think of a better place for AI than in the control tower.
Humans hate that statement.
I took a lot of heat for that.
It's just like asking this ATC for the plane’s sequence, you get an idiotic and aggressive response. Just wait for JoeAmateur and other dinosaurs.
You need to watch "Real Time with Bill Maher" last night when he had a guest, not a panelist, on who is an expert in AI. He explained the fast moving AI development in the last year and half. Very concerning and alarming. These AI experts still do not understand what they create, program and are unable to control AI. AI can manipulate and rebel against their creators to maintain their dominance and survival.
There will never be a day in my life where I trust AI more than I trust a human. AI doesn’t respond to criticism.
I disagree with your assessment.
Controllers typically don't like the question "where am I in line", even in the best of days.
The controller had no idea when that Delta plane would leave. The thunderstorms that day were not predicted, which is why these planes didn't have enough fuel.
The airspace around NYC comes to a grinding halt when convection occurs and significantly disrupts operations for the rest of the day.
...I disagree with your assessment.
Controllers typically don't like the question "where am I in line", even in the best of days.
The controller had no idea when that Delta plane would leave. The thunderstorms that day were not predicted, which is why these planes didn't have enough fuel.
The airspace around NYC comes to a grinding halt when convection occurs and significantly disrupts operations for the rest of the day.
The SWAP that day shut down all routes for a period of time.
Unacceptable for the pilot to call the controller an idiot because he didn't like the answer of the controller.
That plane wasn't going anywhere anytime soon, and the controller and pilot knew it. No reason to get sassy.
The New York Airports are dysfunctional, corrupted, inefficient and unsafe. It is a failure of government regulation and planning on the most basic level.
Delta pilot: “You’re an idiot.”
Are ATC more obnoxious these days?
Or have they always been this obnoxious and there’s just YouTube and other media tracking/ publishing it these days?
Yet another American ATC incident. When was the last time anyone reported similar events anywhere else ? ( crickets chirping)
America is becoming an angry, angry nation.
Pairs well with the polarization as the 'fish rots from the head down' ....
Maybe US ATC tend to have an attitude.
Or maybe it’s because there are so much more ATC in the US (14k) than in any other country (e.g 2.2k in Germany)?
Or maybe you do not hear from other countries because they do not allow to broadcast ATC communication?
NYC ATC
@Klaus_S: What kind of nonsense is that? There's more ATC outside the US than in the US (even if we exclude those places where publishing ATC recordings is not legal), so the majority of incident should statically be from elsewhere in the EU.
*elsewhere in the world :)
You are correct sir; I believe it all started when an insecure little grifter with tiny hands running for President mocked and ridiculed a handicapped reporter in 2016 and the crowd laughed at this disgusting behavior. When people in leadership roles ( not necessarily having leadership skills) behave badly, it seems to set an example that his subjects follow.
Indeed, but his fanboys, not his subjects. We still have a democracy for now.
ATC Europe about 37000 daily. There is an entire world beyond the USA. Ryanair has over 3500 flights daily. You do realise there are very few international flights over the USA with the exception of those from eg Canada to Mexico versus Europe.
Germany - all the time.