This is a pretty significant development when it comes to the way that flight attendants in the United States are paid.
In this post:
Delta’s new flight attendant boarding pay
Earlier in the year I wrote about how flight attendants in the United States generally aren’t paid for boarding, but rather start getting paid when the aircraft door closed. This of course sounds ridiculous, since you should get paid when you’re working. At the same time, the logic has been that flight attendants are instead paid a higher rate than they might otherwise be once the door closes.
The lack of pay during this period has finally started to get more attention, and we’ve seen online petitions calling on airlines to start paying flight attendants during these periods.
At least one major US airline will be changing its policy regarding this. As of June 2, 2022, Delta will be introducing boarding pay for flight attendants. Delta flight attendants will be paid 50% of their standard hourly rate for boarding:
- Domestic narrow body flights will receive 40 minutes of boarding pay
- Domestic wide body flights will receive 45 minutes of boarding pay
- International flights will get 50 minutes of boarding pay
Hourly boarding pay rates are anywhere from $16.10 to $36.19 per hour (50% of the standard hourly pay), so an extra 40-50 minutes of pay per flight at that rate would translate to anywhere from $10.79 (for a first year flight attendant on a domestic narrow body) to $30.04 (for a 12th year flight attendant on an international flight) per flight.
It’s worth emphasizing that this pay is based on the scheduled boarding time, so there will be no additional pay for extended delays on the ground.
It’s interesting to see Delta do this first
Delta is known for treating its employees relatively well, and the airline has historically had the most generous profit sharing scheme on any US airline. But I find Delta leading the way here to be particularly noteworthy.
Delta is the only major US airline where flight attendants aren’t unionized. Over the years there have been several campaigns to get Delta flight attendants to unionize, and management has always tried to avoid that.
Adding boarding pay isn’t cheap, but I imagine Delta management views this as a worthwhile investment when it comes to labor relations. The fact that Delta is proactively adding boarding pay, while other unionized airlines don’t have this, will make unionization efforts at Delta more complicated. Now the big question is if or when other airlines will follow.
Bottom line
Delta has become the first major US airline to add boarding pay. Delta flight attendants will receive 50% of their standard hourly pay for a scheduled boarding period of 40-50 minutes, which will could up across hundreds of flights. Paying flight attendants during boarding makes perfect sense, since it’s probably the most stressful part of the job. It’s nice to see Delta making this change. Now we’ll just have to wait and see if other airlines match.
What do you make of Delta adding flight attendant boarding pay, and do you think other airlines will follow?
As a Swiss Intern.Airline Flight Attendant I am paid 3 Swiss Francs/hour additional to the regular salary from starting the briefing(one hour or on LH flights 1 1/2 hour before ETD) until 1/2 after landing
As a former DAL and AA flight attendant and current AA pilot, I find this long overdue. Bravo Delta.
@BenSchlappig at the air line you mention in this blog post, f/as pay begins once door is closed AND the brake is released. On flights where we have to sit at a gate waiting to leave while the ramp guys are still loading bags…yup not getting paid yet.
Flight attendants should be paid from the time they are required to be on duty and available for work until they are released to go off duty. If the aircraft doesn't depart and they are released from they should be paid a minimum number of hours depending on the number of hours they would have worked that period.
Absolutely about time! Canadian airlines also don't compensate during boarding. The work in business class during boarding involved hanging and tagging coats, distributing newspapers, headphones, amenity kits, prosseco/orange juice/sparkling water, menus, taking meal orders, etc. and no pay for any of that. If you were at the boarding door, you greeted and guided 400 passengers on the 777. And no pay. If you incurred a 4 hour delay, no pay. You would put in half...
Absolutely about time! Canadian airlines also don't compensate during boarding. The work in business class during boarding involved hanging and tagging coats, distributing newspapers, headphones, amenity kits, prosseco/orange juice/sparkling water, menus, taking meal orders, etc. and no pay for any of that. If you were at the boarding door, you greeted and guided 400 passengers on the 777. And no pay. If you incurred a 4 hour delay, no pay. You would put in half or more of an average person's workday, and not paid for any of it. Before the 8 or 10 or 12 hour flight! This is a long time coming
Stupid policy not to pay Delta employees when they are on the plane in uniform and preparing passengers for their flight. I have seen them working - helping passengers, babies and assisting with luggage and issues and wearing a Delta uniform. If that is not working then Delta needs an eye test. To only pay them 50 per cent before the plane door is closed is mean and stupid. Just shows how mean the airline...
Stupid policy not to pay Delta employees when they are on the plane in uniform and preparing passengers for their flight. I have seen them working - helping passengers, babies and assisting with luggage and issues and wearing a Delta uniform. If that is not working then Delta needs an eye test. To only pay them 50 per cent before the plane door is closed is mean and stupid. Just shows how mean the airline is. What next? Is the captain paid when he is doing his pre flight checks or is he only paid when he takes off? Delta employees are all doing their bit for passenger safety and it starts when they are on the plane not in the air.
You apparently missed that Delta is CHANGING the paradigm of how ALL US airlines have compensated crew members which HAS BEEN ONLY for time when the aircraft is essentially moving.
The percentage that AAL, UAL, LUV etc pay their crews for boarding is ZERO.
Thank you for observing and acknowledging. There is so much to do on the ground prior to departure and no pay for any of it. The person working the galley had non-stop prep time, including marking special, pre-ordered meals, which on certain destinations could number up to 150. They set up wine and bar toppers and made sure the beverage trolley had everything required, that the right number of meals were available, sometimes switched hot...
Thank you for observing and acknowledging. There is so much to do on the ground prior to departure and no pay for any of it. The person working the galley had non-stop prep time, including marking special, pre-ordered meals, which on certain destinations could number up to 150. They set up wine and bar toppers and made sure the beverage trolley had everything required, that the right number of meals were available, sometimes switched hot casserole inserts between galleys, went for extra coffee/tea bags, coffee pots, plastic cups, etc. The list was endless. No pay. Not to mention the requests of passengers for water prior to departure. Infant and special needs passenger briefings, which could mean sight, hearing or ambulatory challenged. Overwing briefings to those seated next to emergency exits. All of those safety and non safety related duties had to be conducted pre departure. No pay.
No pay??? LOL
News flash Jo but yes, the Captain is "only" paid when he takes off. This arrangement was agreed to by airline employees because they preferred to be paid excessively high rates for in flight time with the tradeoff that their ground time is unpaid. Horrors, right??
Hello all, I am an aircraft mechanic who is married to a former Flight Attendant (now a Pilot recruiter). The aircrew (non-pilots) are governed by the railway workers guidelines when it comes to how we are paid. Understand, a flight Attendant may work from 530 am to get the airplane ready for boarding at 7am, and at regional airlines, load and unload passengers 4 to 6 times a day and their day ends at 730...
Hello all, I am an aircraft mechanic who is married to a former Flight Attendant (now a Pilot recruiter). The aircrew (non-pilots) are governed by the railway workers guidelines when it comes to how we are paid. Understand, a flight Attendant may work from 530 am to get the airplane ready for boarding at 7am, and at regional airlines, load and unload passengers 4 to 6 times a day and their day ends at 730 pm. That's 14 hours, but because the door on the aircraft door is not closed (the only time they get paid is when the door is closed, railway workers rules...) they only get paid for 4-5 hours for the 14 hours their employer own's their time. So they make 19-20 dollars an hour, they only get paid for 30 percent of the time they are owned by their employers... less than minimum wage... keep it in mind the next time you diminish their job or their value as the Captain's Steward when you are riding on the Captain's aircraft ( because you are subject to the Captain's rules when that aircraft pushes away from the ramp)... just sayin'
News flash Jo but yes, the Captain is "only" paid when he takes off. This arrangement was agreed to by airline employees because they preferred to be paid excessively high rates for in flight time with the tradeoff that their ground time is unpaid. Horrors, right??
Pilots are paid when the aircraft starts push back. FYI.
Sad all the horrific comments against FA's on other blogs, such that I can't stomach reading any of these comments for fear of reading more vitriol. I have no connection to the airline industry, I just like to peek into a world I have no desire to inhabit (horrortown!). After all the guff they have had to deal with the past two years, now some pax want to dump on them (like they always do)?...
Sad all the horrific comments against FA's on other blogs, such that I can't stomach reading any of these comments for fear of reading more vitriol. I have no connection to the airline industry, I just like to peek into a world I have no desire to inhabit (horrortown!). After all the guff they have had to deal with the past two years, now some pax want to dump on them (like they always do)? Unreal! What has happened to civility in this world!!?? They have difficult, often stressful jobs not made any easier by the what seems to be a growing subset of entitled children. And no, they have no control over flight delays, missed catering, bad management, mechanical problems, etc. Are there substandard ones? Of course, just like there are substandard pax.
This isn't the glamor job of the 1960's. Overloaded schedules, cramped planes, low budget food, etc. These are human beings just like you, most of them are trying their best under stressful conditions while also having to worry about catching a disease that despite claims of "it's over" is not over and can mess you up. Please take a moment and think back to when you had a bad day (personal or work related) and try to walk, even a little, in their shoes. Give thanks we have technology that can transport you hundreds or thousands of miles in a few hours. And if there is a life threatening situation, those same FA's will try their best to keep you safe, even save your life, though you reamed them out because you couldn't do whatever the unsafe, rude or selfish heck you wanted. This behavior by so many of my fellow humans is depressing, so much that since I am old, I look forward to death because this is NOT the world I grew up in. Oh, the "old days" were not glorious but at least people smiled before they stuck the knife in. And you knew who they were and could take defensive measures, not anonymous cowards hiding behind a screen name.
Please tone it down (though I have no hope of this) before you destroy society. Thank you.....
I didn't know Flight Attendants didn't get paid until the door was closed. Based on such logic the CEO of the company shouldn't get paid until the company was profitable and should never receive a bonus. FA's should be paid from the time they arrive at the airlines office in the airport and until they reach the same at their last location of the of day (or days). I don't know if FA's get paid...
I didn't know Flight Attendants didn't get paid until the door was closed. Based on such logic the CEO of the company shouldn't get paid until the company was profitable and should never receive a bonus. FA's should be paid from the time they arrive at the airlines office in the airport and until they reach the same at their last location of the of day (or days). I don't know if FA's get paid when they are on long haul flights and get their time to rest. But they should be paid for that time also (unless the airline can find a way for the FA to be at home during the middle of a long haul flight). And no I was not in the aviation industry.
We can tell with comments like that. :)r
Thank you for your support, especially if you're not in the airline industry!
It’s about time. I know it was stated that FAs have a higher rate of pay because of not being paid for boarding, but you must also keep in mind that most lines of flying pay an average of around 80-85 hours per month. So what seems like a higher rate of pay diminishes when compared to someone working a 40 hour week. That’s an average of 160 hours per month. There’s also the unpaid...
It’s about time. I know it was stated that FAs have a higher rate of pay because of not being paid for boarding, but you must also keep in mind that most lines of flying pay an average of around 80-85 hours per month. So what seems like a higher rate of pay diminishes when compared to someone working a 40 hour week. That’s an average of 160 hours per month. There’s also the unpaid time during the deplaning process and when having to remain on board during ground time for delays, maintenance issues, through flights, when having to remain onboard the aircraft sitting for passengers not wanting to deplane. All of those times are unpaid as well.
While that is true, it paints a distorted picture. FA's make less than many professions because they work far fewer total hours (even including boarding and deplaning) than the rest of us.
Are you kidding me? they no longer do anything on board anymore. No meal service nothing not even pre flight takeoff demonstration all video!
They have cut down on in-flight services, through no fault of the attendants, but not completely. You are overstating the facts. They still serve drinks and snacks unless you are flying the cheapest airlines out there. Just sit and watch next time as attendants try to get people seated, overhead baggage stored, seatbelts fastened, belongings completely under the seats, seats vertical, masks on if required, keep people in their seats instead of switching seats or...
They have cut down on in-flight services, through no fault of the attendants, but not completely. You are overstating the facts. They still serve drinks and snacks unless you are flying the cheapest airlines out there. Just sit and watch next time as attendants try to get people seated, overhead baggage stored, seatbelts fastened, belongings completely under the seats, seats vertical, masks on if required, keep people in their seats instead of switching seats or in the bathrooms so the plane can take off on time, and do all of it with a smile because some idiot with an attitude might decide to jack-slap a flight attendant just for notoriety. There are plenty of jobs where people have down time when they aren’t actively working every single second, but they aren’t expected to work the first 30-60 minutes for free. I challenge you to tell me of a job where you put in time without pay and stayed at that job because you were so happy!
Delta's decision to put videos on its aircraft doesn't make the flight attendants work any less. You do notice that Delta FAs stand at the front of the cabin while the safety video is playing and then pass through the cabin when it is over?
And, Delta never quit serving meals although in some cases it was a box meal. They also never quit serving alcohol = and covid deaths on Delta are the same as on American, which did ban alcohol - ZERO.
Covid was responsible for diminished service. Go back to pre-covid and the workload was immense. If you're sitting in 10A you have no understanding of what's happening in the 50 rows behind you, or the galley behind that. You're not the one dealing with 400 passengers and their various issues. We're getting back to that, with full loads and increased service. See my post above. Unless you work there, you have no understanding of what we do
HATS OFF TO DELTA!! AS A RETIRED FLIGHT ATTENDANT FROM ANOTHER (MAJOR UNIONIZED) AIRLINE, I SALUTE THEM FOR DOING RIGHT BY THEIR FLIGHT ATTENDANTS!!
OK NOW….THE REST SHOULD GET ON BOARD…
PRECEDENCE IS NOW SET!!
They should be paid their hourly rate from the moment they set foot on the plane!
Long overdue and justified.
It’s about time, flight attendants are the soul of the Airline industry. Dealing with passengers is not easy, specially nowadays. I’d rather be upfront in the flight station dealing with whatever emergency than dealing with a “bus” load of rude demanding people in the back.
In my 48 years in aviation my career has gone from 22 years in the Navy, to Chief Pilot of an American Eagle airline to finishing my years flying...
It’s about time, flight attendants are the soul of the Airline industry. Dealing with passengers is not easy, specially nowadays. I’d rather be upfront in the flight station dealing with whatever emergency than dealing with a “bus” load of rude demanding people in the back.
In my 48 years in aviation my career has gone from 22 years in the Navy, to Chief Pilot of an American Eagle airline to finishing my years flying freigh with FedEx, any time I have flown as a pax I always ID as a qualified crew member and offer to ,help. My hat off to these highly qualified professionals, I SALUTE YOU.✈️
Thank you for your acknowledgment and support!
As a current F/A with a major, I can say this will easily be adopted & passed by the other majors including UA & AA.
Unions like AFA (UA) & APFA (AA) have been wanting this for years!! The amount of 50% based on seniority it perfect. Thus, senior F/As will always have a chance to earn more for every leg they board, usually 1-2 per day. Junior F/As won’t be neglected, and will...
As a current F/A with a major, I can say this will easily be adopted & passed by the other majors including UA & AA.
Unions like AFA (UA) & APFA (AA) have been wanting this for years!! The amount of 50% based on seniority it perfect. Thus, senior F/As will always have a chance to earn more for every leg they board, usually 1-2 per day. Junior F/As won’t be neglected, and will always be compensated for the work they often do, often 3-4 legs per day
EX. $16 x 4 legs = $64 per day
$32 x 2 legs = $64 per day
Thus, seniority and type of trips held result in better pay per day.
Also, unlike F/As that collect standard trip pay for a sick call, they won’t be collecting boarding pay as well. Boarding Pay is based on performance and actual work conducted.
Junior F/As or “new hires” often get stuck with “doggy” 3-4 day trips, totaling 9-12 legs. At least they now might be compensated about an extra $160-192 per trip. That could easily be another $8k-$9k just for junior F/As Senior F/As who like earning money, might earn extra $16k-$20k per year!
All in all, if the companies are good with paying, the employees and union members will be too
I believe this was the result of a lawsuit. Mot something magnanimously done by the company. Oman v the Airline.
How was this ever the norm in the first place?! How could essential operations of the company be mandatory volunteer work?
Let me explain…. Historically, airline attendants were women and women (historically) have always been treated “special” in the workplace.
Gregg tried to date a flight attendant and got rejected perhaps? Economics alone would not incite such passion in a man. This dedication requires some blend of animosity, rejection, and entitlement for fuel. His version of “Jump Seat Candy Crush” is “Online Forum FA belittling.” Who is paying Gregg’s salary? Perhaps they should see if he has an overinflated wage.
The previous pay scheme was nuts!
Excellent news and well deserved. Boarding can be very stressful so FAsdeserve this. Well done Delta
For sure flight attendants should be paid to board an aircraft. Boarding can be the most stressful part of a flight. And flight attendants should also be paid to deplane. Flight attendants are paid flight time only.
Confession: I was an Air Canada flight attendant for almost 32 years.
Hi Cynthia! I retired in March myself! There are all types of new destinations coming up and long layovers but I saw flights filling up and I just couldn't envision dealing with the hardest part of the job, the travelling public, any longer
Brilliant move by Delta. As there is currently a card drive going this will add several thousand dollars in real money to the pay checks and this of course will affect the choice to sign or not sign a card for many. Even bolder is that since AA flight attendants already said boarding pay will be an opening position in their Section 6 negotiations this guarantees APFA will not accept any agreement without boarding pay...
Brilliant move by Delta. As there is currently a card drive going this will add several thousand dollars in real money to the pay checks and this of course will affect the choice to sign or not sign a card for many. Even bolder is that since AA flight attendants already said boarding pay will be an opening position in their Section 6 negotiations this guarantees APFA will not accept any agreement without boarding pay which increases their primary competitors costs. We can count this as a win, win, win for everyone. Delta FA's win by real increases in pay, DL wins by forcing competitors costs up, and the rest of the industry wins as each CBA goes through their own Section 6 and this becomes the new normal.
There is no free lunch people. Without a commiserate reduction in flight time pay, which sadly seems to be off the table, passengers lose with higher fares and/or shareholders lose with reduced profitability.
Once again, you do realize that Delta's guidance to investors is for the highest profit margin in the industry of the airlines that have reported so far?
If Delta manages to increase pay for its employees and still generate industry-leading margins, tell me where the harm to Delta's world is?
Apparently everyone should work for free so Gregg gets the lowest fares and shareholders get the maximum profit. Let's go even better and make the FAs pay to work for Delta! They shouldn't be taking all those flights for free.
There goes the neighbourhood
Mmmmm, what? The moment a flight attendant steps on their plane aren't they working? Aren't they greeting passengers, helping stow carry-on bags, generally getting the cabin ready etc? If I was an FA and not getting paid until the doors closed I'd be the last person on the plane and would close the door behind me. Passengers? Oh, you guys struggling to figure out your seating and stow your own carry-ons? How you doing? Where...
Mmmmm, what? The moment a flight attendant steps on their plane aren't they working? Aren't they greeting passengers, helping stow carry-on bags, generally getting the cabin ready etc? If I was an FA and not getting paid until the doors closed I'd be the last person on the plane and would close the door behind me. Passengers? Oh, you guys struggling to figure out your seating and stow your own carry-ons? How you doing? Where are we all going today? C'mon! This is 100% ridiculous to not be on the clock the moment you set foot on that plane. Am I nuts?
Yes, you are indeed kind of nuts for ignoring the bigger picture of total FA compensation... :)
You're absolutely NOT nuts! I worked with people who refused to set up anything on the ground due to the fact we weren't paid, but we get busy setting up galleys, etc. only to make our lives easier once we take off. Otherwise, you have that much more to do once we're in the air
Let's be clear. This is nothing more than an attempt by Delta to avoid unionization. I'd estimate 40% of Delta's flight attendants want to unionize, judging by how many wear the protest all-black uniforms.
If Delta was serious about fixing boarding, they would CHARGE non-status customers for carry-on bags and give FREE checked bags to all passengers. 40 minutes on a fully loaded 737, 757, or A321 is hardly sufficient time given that many passengers...
Let's be clear. This is nothing more than an attempt by Delta to avoid unionization. I'd estimate 40% of Delta's flight attendants want to unionize, judging by how many wear the protest all-black uniforms.
If Delta was serious about fixing boarding, they would CHARGE non-status customers for carry-on bags and give FREE checked bags to all passengers. 40 minutes on a fully loaded 737, 757, or A321 is hardly sufficient time given that many passengers are bringing a pursue, background or duffle bag, and a full-size carry-on bag.
given that Delta's investor guidance is to the highest profits in the 2nd quarter, multiples higher than American and JetBlue won't even be profitable, DL apparently has the resources to make its employees happy.
It is pretty hard to argue against a unionization campaign that actually benefits Delta employees.
And if you have status, you sit near the front of the plane, board first and shouldn't give a flip what the unwashed masses...
given that Delta's investor guidance is to the highest profits in the 2nd quarter, multiples higher than American and JetBlue won't even be profitable, DL apparently has the resources to make its employees happy.
It is pretty hard to argue against a unionization campaign that actually benefits Delta employees.
And if you have status, you sit near the front of the plane, board first and shouldn't give a flip what the unwashed masses behind you drag onto the plane or how long it takes them to get off.
Delta FA here…just so we’re clear, I personally wore the b/w uniform. Not out of protest. I was simply waiting for my uniforms to arrive from our vendor (for several months). We appreciate your business but please don’t speak on my behalf. In addition, as a medallion member, may I suggest you utilize your ability and opportunity to address your concerns via email directly to the company? We read medallion comments & suggestions daily.
I think the FA should be paid from the time they check in at the airport.
I am a former flight attendant:
Get to work; those people in upper management insist that we fet on the aircraft and board knowing that due to the situation thqt day we wont be going any were for at least two hours! So we board a 777-200 full on passengers; and even did a service on ground that took an hour and half then sat there for another hour; then changed aircraft only to...
I am a former flight attendant:
Get to work; those people in upper management insist that we fet on the aircraft and board knowing that due to the situation thqt day we wont be going any were for at least two hours! So we board a 777-200 full on passengers; and even did a service on ground that took an hour and half then sat there for another hour; then changed aircraft only to have the flight cacnelled after a total 5 hours!
Mind you sent back home only to not get paid! Plus add to that that the boarding is the most hectic phase; 80% of the problems appear in boarding! Once you board that more than half of the flight done
I did not know flight attendants were not paid during the boarding process! Rather surprised! I feel they should be paid from the moment the first passenger steps foot on the plane until the last passenger steps off. Kudos to Delta for being the first airline to step up! Hopefully others will follow…..
Would not have expected this topic to get 70+ replies
Is Gregg some kind of financial planner at American trying to keep labor costs down?
WHY NOT?
If Gregg knows anything about finance and he truly believes what he said, he’d short $DAL. But he won’t because he understands nothing
..boarding pay and they lost they lost the positive-space benefit to all those that commute.Thats huge to the thousands that commute, especially now that the busy travel summer season is upon us.
How is there any financial implication given that most US airline employees don't pay for passes on their own airline and they didn't get positive space before the pandemic?
And how many airlines gave positive space commuting passes even during the pandemic?
"many"? The only time we get PS travel is when the company can't get employees in that city to work. Happened more than once during the pandemic, don't kid yourself.
do you realize that Delta pilots and flight attendants have had commuting passes for most if not all of the pandemic?
Now, once again to the originator of this sub-thread, tell me how many employees had similar benefits and how there is any negative financial impact to returning to the same situation as existed pre-covid.
The codeshares the regional I worked for during the pandemic gave positive space for much of 2020 because of all the cancellations. They stopped in early 2021 when flight schedules stabilized.
How is this (not paying for boarding) even legal. It would not be in any other industry. An hour is an hour, and the clock starts when you are required to arrive at the workplace.
As airlines need to hire thousands of employees, Delta's move is a huge shot in its efforts to keep its operations staffed and its employees happy.
Given specific airline financial results that have been released so far (Southwest reports later this week), Delta's move is certain to increase financial pressure on its competitors. American and United both expect to have weaker than industry average results while Southwest, which operates the most shorthaul domestic flights...
As airlines need to hire thousands of employees, Delta's move is a huge shot in its efforts to keep its operations staffed and its employees happy.
Given specific airline financial results that have been released so far (Southwest reports later this week), Delta's move is certain to increase financial pressure on its competitors. American and United both expect to have weaker than industry average results while Southwest, which operates the most shorthaul domestic flights (which will result in the largest cost increase) is likely to be profitable but has employees that want the company to belly up to the bar to help recover high inflation. Some airlines can't do it and other airlines like United and American operate large numbers of regional jets but Delta's move has the potential to increase Southwest's costs the most if it adopted Delta's policy. And then airlines like JetBlue don't expect to be profitable even in the second quarter when Alaska, Delta and Southwest are all likely to have double digit operating margins.
I could not care less! This is not newsworthy!
Wow. An embarrassment with your childish outburst. It’s obviously of enough interest for all of these replies, and the potential affect on wider industry operations and financials.
When you START work you should start being paid. I am a Delta customer and always will be, but this pay issue is quite unfair to the attendants. This is typical of management - they get the big bucks and let’s save at the expense of the workers.
JetBlue won't follow suit. They are cheap. JetBlue NEEDS a total cleansing of upper management. Have you flown JetBlue lately, miserable experience.
Sadly it is not reported that at the exact same time delta cut rotation credits to offset this new pay.
I simply do not understand why employees work for no pay…… at any time.
Seems insane to me. Flight attendants are already paid more then gate agents and to pay them for boarding is insane.
They should only get this if their hourly in air rate is decreased.
Also I’m all for the raise if North American Airlines had some physical standards of appearance like they do in the Middle East or Asia. Flight attendants get paid well. They need to look the part
You’re treading on a very slippery slope, Darnell. The US has anti discrimination labor laws that protect workers regarding race, age, sex, etc. etc. What is your profession? Is your working wage based on your looks?
I do like the stewardesses dress in Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Very beautiful. Too bad not same in America.
As a former flight attendant, I applaud Delta for paying at boarding. It can be a real hassle. Was never my favourite time.
@Gregg why you complaining so much from economics stand point? If you think this is bad for shareholders and customers and hence lower revenue, profit and stock price, i dare you to short $DAL.
Why would you share your strategy on every single post?
Honestly, what I find most interesting is that the standard pay is $32-$72 per flight hour. Those senior, long-haul FAs are really pulling it in compared with the juniors doing all those one-hour domestic hops. My guess is that junior FAs make shockingly close to minimum wage on an hours-worked basis. So, yeah, I absolutely agree that the system of being paid for "flight time" is quite broken, given all the work hours on the...
Honestly, what I find most interesting is that the standard pay is $32-$72 per flight hour. Those senior, long-haul FAs are really pulling it in compared with the juniors doing all those one-hour domestic hops. My guess is that junior FAs make shockingly close to minimum wage on an hours-worked basis. So, yeah, I absolutely agree that the system of being paid for "flight time" is quite broken, given all the work hours on the ground. However, it's ludicrous to think that an airline would suddenly start including all that extra time in paid hours without reducing the hourly pay rate to something much closer to usual pay for those with "normal" 40 hours paid per week, especially at the top end.
Finally! Sanity prevails!
As a former flight attendant I take umbrage to your comments. We are there for your safety; not to serve you!
That attitude only exists in the US and it is why most of us feel that paying y'all even more is nuts!
Artificially high rates of pay and atrocious customer service. They now think they work for free so the level of customer service gets even worse! Surly flight attendants whose sole mission is to trip up anyone whose mask slips below their nose so that there is at least one less passenger pig they need to serve trough food too. Improve customer service or get rid of them.
Oh stop being a crybaby. You’re an adult and can’t even wear masks? Or because you can’t breathe? Weak.
Customer service? Delta customer service is among the best. And I’m singaporean with SQ as flag carrier. I do think delta FA is very personalized and casual compared to robotic but perfectly trained SQ CC.
You probably take one flight a year and had a bad experience but never praise the good the rest of them did.
Do you wear a adult diaper, Joker? Don’t normalize mask wearing for adults, there is nothing normal about it. Weak.
I’m someone working with hazardous chemiclas with some training in Japan and rest of asia, so yes, I wear mask. It’s normal and if you understand the physics you would wear it more often as well. Weak. If you can’t breathe through a mask, then you’re weak. Simple as that.
Mask is normal in Asia. Asians are majority of people on the earth. I’d follow them than some whining white people who is a minority.
Mask enforcement in the U.S. on airlines was a “Federal Mandate”. U.S. F/As are FAA certified employees(1 of only 5 positions in an airline that are), and can be fined or fired by the FAA for not carrying out any Federal aviation requirements. Failure to enforce policy could mean they would loose their certification card and no longer be able to work for any U.S. airline again.
Any confrontation that attendants have had with...
Mask enforcement in the U.S. on airlines was a “Federal Mandate”. U.S. F/As are FAA certified employees(1 of only 5 positions in an airline that are), and can be fined or fired by the FAA for not carrying out any Federal aviation requirements. Failure to enforce policy could mean they would loose their certification card and no longer be able to work for any U.S. airline again.
Any confrontation that attendants have had with passengers about Masks has been only per Federal requirements, not the airline itself.
Good grief. Just reading the comments basically proves the overall point…if any airline gives an inch to a specific workgroup (whether unionized or not), they will ALWAYS say it’s not enough and ask for a mile more. The hourly pay for FAs was already artificially inflated to account for the lack of pay during boarding, or an otherwise pre-determined start time. For the millionth time, if you don’t like your job, go find another (perhaps...
Good grief. Just reading the comments basically proves the overall point…if any airline gives an inch to a specific workgroup (whether unionized or not), they will ALWAYS say it’s not enough and ask for a mile more. The hourly pay for FAs was already artificially inflated to account for the lack of pay during boarding, or an otherwise pre-determined start time. For the millionth time, if you don’t like your job, go find another (perhaps higher paying?) one!!! There are plenty of individuals willing and WANTING to work under the pay corresponding to the level of work and service provided.
You are so evil.
Chase, why is the only option to find another job? Why is asking more of your current employer not a valid response? Plenty of people do this all the time--have you not every asked or negotiated for a pay raise? Because I sure have and most people I know have.
Also, airlines have the ability to review and either accept or reject the demands from employees. If there truly are plenty of individuals waiting in...
Chase, why is the only option to find another job? Why is asking more of your current employer not a valid response? Plenty of people do this all the time--have you not every asked or negotiated for a pay raise? Because I sure have and most people I know have.
Also, airlines have the ability to review and either accept or reject the demands from employees. If there truly are plenty of individuals waiting in the wings to take those jobs, surely those airlines aren't forced to accept those demands, and can instead hire some of those new employees. Just like employees can "find another job" airlines can "find other employees", no? I love that you're out here defending the airlines as if they aren't the ones in a position of power.
Ok, so do you disagree that the elevated pay per flight hour does not already account for this? Would you also support a commensurate adjustment in the pay rate downward per flight hour to account for the additional pay during boarding?
Didn't think so. It's always just more more more money, for less less work.
You really don’t understand the job nor the way F/As are paid. The average full time US worker is paid based on 40hrs per week, or 160hrs per month(on avg).
F/As are based usually about 70-90hrs of flight time per month. This is actually somewhat regulated due to FAA rules & policies regarding total work hours per week and required rest been shifts.
A F/A who maybe compensated @ $32 per flight hour,...
You really don’t understand the job nor the way F/As are paid. The average full time US worker is paid based on 40hrs per week, or 160hrs per month(on avg).
F/As are based usually about 70-90hrs of flight time per month. This is actually somewhat regulated due to FAA rules & policies regarding total work hours per week and required rest been shifts.
A F/A who maybe compensated @ $32 per flight hour, is actually less than you think.
Avg. mo. worker - $32 x 160hrs = $5,120
F/A worker - $32 x 70hrs = $2,240
Those are REAL #s today in the industry for the major US airlines.
THANK YOU...!!
Way overdue. If someone shows up for a shift their time is on your clock. Don't be the restaurant industry.
Hold on as an ex FA I have more than once checked in , boarded, been delayed, served food and drinks on the ground, run out of hours and got off with a new crew being called to take the flight, under this old system I would paid nothing. Pay needs to start when the crew check in and finish after clearing all paperwork and de planed and back at the reporting centre, just like in Europe.
Fine. So long as you support a downward adjustment to flight pay. Do you?
So by exfa's post who did an entire duty without ever closing the door and hence being paid, just how downward would you like their wage to go? Are you an overpaid beancounter or a small child living of mommy and daddies trust fund?
I was raised on food stamps so nice try! I now am blessed to be able to fly in the premium cabin and am continually dismayed by the declining standards/behaviors of what used to be the FA 'profession.' It's all about magazines and Candy Crush, service be damned.
FYI: There are always cancelations; again, the aforementioned scenario is built into the inflated hourly flight rate. It seems 2/3 of the posters here have never taken...
I was raised on food stamps so nice try! I now am blessed to be able to fly in the premium cabin and am continually dismayed by the declining standards/behaviors of what used to be the FA 'profession.' It's all about magazines and Candy Crush, service be damned.
FYI: There are always cancelations; again, the aforementioned scenario is built into the inflated hourly flight rate. It seems 2/3 of the posters here have never taken a business or economics class in their life. SMH
The real reason isn't because D is benevolent. It's because there is word that AA is negotiating it for their contract. But D likes to be able to be first so they can say "see, we did it first. You don't need a union."
But...let's not forget that it also means it can be taken away anytime with zero discussion, as opposed to having a union, which would mean they would need to negotiate it...
The real reason isn't because D is benevolent. It's because there is word that AA is negotiating it for their contract. But D likes to be able to be first so they can say "see, we did it first. You don't need a union."
But...let's not forget that it also means it can be taken away anytime with zero discussion, as opposed to having a union, which would mean they would need to negotiate it to end it.
D says their FAs are the highest paid, but they don't compare apples to apples.
This is a good move, but i still feel they should be paid the moment they step into the aircraft not when the boarding starts. If they are in aircraft 30 mins before boarding they should be paid for that 30 mins as well
In Australia, we're clock on to chocks on. Meaning, we are paid 45 minutes to sign on to actually prepare for the day ahead and then until 15 minutes after chocks on, which generally allows time to disembark. Still room for improvement, but at least Aussie aviation, like literally any job in the world, pays for sign on to sign off.
It all comes out in the wash as your hourly rate is then significantly less than a US counterpart; that is, more of your hours are paid but at a lower rate per hour. That works fine too and is unlike here where our FA's are trying to have their cake and eat it too!
And don’t get hurt on the job! D will throw you away like trash. I’m still injured and in pain and no one ever asked how I was doing and they told me in training, “we are family lol!” Sedgwick treated me like I injured myself. Now I’m in school trying to get another career and I enjoyed being a flight attendant. They didn’t even offer me a job on the ground and my lawyer...
And don’t get hurt on the job! D will throw you away like trash. I’m still injured and in pain and no one ever asked how I was doing and they told me in training, “we are family lol!” Sedgwick treated me like I injured myself. Now I’m in school trying to get another career and I enjoyed being a flight attendant. They didn’t even offer me a job on the ground and my lawyer failed to ask for flight benefits in the small settlements. They made me settle, these companies are all the same, no one cares about human lives. It’s all about the money. I have sent several emails and no one has responded. They basically said, “ you got hurt so screw you buddy!” I always wanted to work for D. Just like the American dream for black people is a failure for us, so is working for a good company that appreciates good employees. My customers loved me and I got lots of letters for getting kids calm and helping elderly but D didn’t care about any of that. They cater to their hot flight attendants who could care less about customer service and many of them hate giving passengers service or drinks on the plane. Many of the flight attendants at all of these airlines hate passengers. They only do it for the pay and travel benefits. No one cares anymore, so I guess that’s why all of these things happen. The company doesn’t care so many employees don’t either. I would kill to have my flight benefits back and would love to still be at work at D. But they showed me I’m trash for being hurt on the job. And it wasn’t my fault.
I think it’s a good start but they mis the point, it is the unforseen delays that are the heaviest. Being stuck on the ground for a few hours with pax in case of a technical, a blizard, a medical, waiting for hours for special asistance. Why would you not get payed for those circumstances and only the planned boarding times?
Because ALL of that nonsense is built into their in-flight pay which was calculated to account for all of that. Why is everyone struggling with this concept??
No. You're struggling with it. If i have a 2hr flight, but sit on the ground with a 2 hour delay, when we leave, my 2hr flight is still 2 hrs. So now i worked 4 hours but only got paid for 2.
I really wish non-airline folks would just sit down and shut up. You think you know so much about this job but you don't. Pay structure is VERY detailed and complicated. The...
No. You're struggling with it. If i have a 2hr flight, but sit on the ground with a 2 hour delay, when we leave, my 2hr flight is still 2 hrs. So now i worked 4 hours but only got paid for 2.
I really wish non-airline folks would just sit down and shut up. You think you know so much about this job but you don't. Pay structure is VERY detailed and complicated. The law that governs office jobs or any other typesbof jobs in the US don't apply to their airlines. They are stuck under the antiquated 1920s Railroad Labor Law. It's quite different.
I will try one more time. The amount paid in air is ridiculously high to compensate for the unpaid time on the ground. Using simple averages, let's say each flight takes 40 minutes to board with an average delay of 20 minutes. If I pay you $33.33/hour for boarding, delay, and two hours of flying you get $100. Instead, I am paying you $50/hour for flying. You still get $100. Do you follow?
So if FA's want to be paid on the ground, their flying rate better be cut!
Because everyone doesn't believe that the in-flight pay actually compensates fully for all that extra time, and because everyone doesn't believe that flight attendants actually make all that much money. Are you seriously arguing that flight attendants are overpaid?
Gregg never said they were under or overpaid he is just pointing out a simple concept you all cant seem to understand.
As for the low pay then just quit, its always odd to me when people say some job is underpaid. If so then quit, no one is forcing you to be a flight attendant. If enough quit then they will need to pay more to increase the demand. I would try to explain supply vs demand but that would probably fall flat too.
This is Delta responding to supply and demand, and perceptions about the pay scale from new entrants. If they were able to hire and retain staff on the old formula, they wouldn’t be raising pay on any bit of the work day.
What happens when a flight is delayed? Is the boarding time they start from the original boarding time or the delayed boarding time?
And yes, totally agree with all of this. Should never be free labor.
Nothing will happen
It's a flat amount per flight.
No. It won't apply. It is simply based on how many boardings they had during the pay period. Some aircraft board at d40, some d45 and some d50, so it includes that consideration. If boarding takes longer or shorter, it also doesn't matter. It's one amount for a boarding. Period.
This will really help out the junior flight attendants since they get the boring 1-2 hour flights, usually 3-4 legs while the senior agents get the 7+ hour flights and only work one flight.
Delta is non union and sees the writing on the wall, that the flight attendants unions are going to get this already and that California based FAs will start to get paid while boarding.
Didn't even know this was a thing. Every worker should be paid from sign on. America has such a povo labour culture. Everything is designed to screw workers over.
Give me a break. The in-flight pay rate was artificially high to cover the time spent boarding. This is just another management give away. SAD!
Artificially high? Screw you! You have zero clue what it was and who are you to say what's "artificial." They are grossly underpaid.
This is what you do? Attack me for explaining the economics of their pay structure?
Let's try to keep it civil and learn from one another!
How do you figure it's artificially high to account for the boarding/delay stuff? What are you comparing it to?
Personally I would want to get paid for the amount of time I am working if I'm paid hourly. I wouldn't want certain hours artificially high to account for other hours I'm not getting paid.
@Gregg Lol you can sell or short delta stocks if you think this is a management give away. We’ll see who will be on the other side. If you’re so confident that delta shareholders en masse will do the same, then let’s see their improvement in service, happier customers and higher growth and hence profit.
Most of the “worlds” Flight Attendants are paid when signing on which can be from 45 minutes prior to aircraft departure and then 15 minutes after aircraft lands on “chocks” . I’m not sure If US flight attendants are involved in the boarding process,If they do then they should be paid in my opinion
See above. The time is already paid via an inflated pay rate for flying.
You make "inflated" sound like they make sooooo much.
Let me give you an example
A first year FA makes $30/hr. A typical day would have them on duty for about 11 hours, but only getting paid for about 6 of those hours. So in reality, they make about $15/hr for an 11hr day. Then they are so lucky for an 11 hour layover and do it again the next day. And the next. So...
You make "inflated" sound like they make sooooo much.
Let me give you an example
A first year FA makes $30/hr. A typical day would have them on duty for about 11 hours, but only getting paid for about 6 of those hours. So in reality, they make about $15/hr for an 11hr day. Then they are so lucky for an 11 hour layover and do it again the next day. And the next. So for a 3 day trip, they are paid about 17 hours. What's it worth to you to not sleep in your bed every night? Miss holidays and weekends and important family events?
Sure we know some of this when we apply, but not all of it.
Many still enjoy the job despite the low pay. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't try for more. We know the company has it. It's how they choose to allocate it. Ed Bastian won't miss a meal if he gave FAs even 8% more. It would barely be a dent in his salary or the bottom line, but it would make a huge deal for the 22000 families of FAs.
FA attrition rates are some of the lowest of any jobs on the world. So it can't be that bad!
Then quit, it has never been easier since ww2 to find work in the united states. If the pay is so bad then why do thousands of people keep applying for these FA jobs? You do understand how supply and demand works right?
Did Sara Nelson come up with this? No? ok. How did actual Unions not come up with this first? Are they still fighting serving alcohol "because covid"?
I'm assuming it's because unions negotiated, and membership accepted, higher hourly rates during the flight. Of course this produces winners (senior attendants with fewer, longer flights who proportionately spend much less time in boarding) and losers (younger regional attendants with lots of turns and more time spent boarding). I'm sure UA and AA will want a reduction in the hourly rate to expand paid time. Will be interesting to see how it turns out.
Except AA & UA management are spineless and will instead just cave.
Nah. Word on the street is that AA is already negotiating this with their current contract talks. D wanted to get ahead so they can say they did it first and stave off union efforts.
Also, I'm not sure why there are so many hostile comments about unions and people wanting higher wages. Let me guess, it's you medallion folks who think you pay too much for your ticket and it's the FAs fault.
...Nah. Word on the street is that AA is already negotiating this with their current contract talks. D wanted to get ahead so they can say they did it first and stave off union efforts.
Also, I'm not sure why there are so many hostile comments about unions and people wanting higher wages. Let me guess, it's you medallion folks who think you pay too much for your ticket and it's the FAs fault.
If you want someone to blame, blame management for giving so much to shareholders and upper management who can't go a month without an IROP. They are supposed to be paid the big bucks to solve problems but 2022 alone has already had 30+ days in chaos of IRops. They can't get their s*it together. Blame pilots for all they take and add nothing more. At least FAs are more productive every time they add new services or touch points with the customers. Pilots literally don't do anything different from year to year and expect a LOT more with each new contract. The company gives them an automatic 16% to their 401k!! That's in addition to their VERY HIGH hourly. And uet most of them can't be bothered to stay during deplaning to say goodbye to everyone like they should be.
It's sad how people think nobody is worth more money as the price of everything goes up exponentially. We bow down to corporations and think they deserve unlimited money and that people should just work for whatever pittance they are given.
Meanwhile you all complain about the homeless problem in so many cities throughout the country. Why do you think there are more? Hmmmm. Well, if you had a $35k year job 15 years ago, you might get by. Now, given how little wages go up, your $35k from 15 years ago need $70k to pay for the same things. More people are falling under the line. But yea..let's blame the workers and unions. Lame! Educate yourselves greedy bastards!
You math is way off. The CPI is up 34% over the last 15 years; nowhere near doubled.
Union membership is actually likely to oppose something like this as it benefits junior crew working multiple short-haul sectors rather than senior crew with less sectors for more hours. That's why unions have traditionally negotiated pay raises on hourly basis to benefit the seniors who invariably make up leadership positions there.
Delta leading the industry yet again. You know AA & UA FAs will ask for this next.
Sadly, they will get it.
Why sadly? Don't you ask or expect more money from your company every year? Don't you expect to be paud for the time you're at work?
You sound like some bitter, greedy loser who sees other people getting more like it's not fair because it's not you, so you throw a temper tantrum and start putting them down "they don't deserve more." Or "they are all so rude and lazy anyway. They don't deserve more."...
Why sadly? Don't you ask or expect more money from your company every year? Don't you expect to be paud for the time you're at work?
You sound like some bitter, greedy loser who sees other people getting more like it's not fair because it's not you, so you throw a temper tantrum and start putting them down "they don't deserve more." Or "they are all so rude and lazy anyway. They don't deserve more." I'd love to come to your company and tell your boss how much money you deserve knowing nothing about what you do.
You probably sit at a desk all day pushing papers and think you're so important for doing it and expect over 100k/yr. Loser!
Name calling? Very constructive.
You must be a real jewel to deal with..Pathetic!
This is fair. If you are required to be somewhere for work, you should be paid for it. The unions are terrible not because of higher pay for flight attendants but because unions protect the worst of the worst. Unions are awful for keeping on flight attendants for 40 years instead of having young cabin crews like in Europe who move on to ground based careers better suited to raising a family in their late...
This is fair. If you are required to be somewhere for work, you should be paid for it. The unions are terrible not because of higher pay for flight attendants but because unions protect the worst of the worst. Unions are awful for keeping on flight attendants for 40 years instead of having young cabin crews like in Europe who move on to ground based careers better suited to raising a family in their late 20s and early 30s. Having 60 year old flight attendants who are disjointed and nasty is not helpful.
Unions aren't meant to protect the business or the consumer, they are there to protect the worker from the day the enter the workforce until the day they retire.
It would be absurd to only have young crews because who is going to go through the process if becoming flight attendant if it doesn't offer a long term career? It's not exactly easy retraining and finding a new career when you're 40, 50 and particularly...
Unions aren't meant to protect the business or the consumer, they are there to protect the worker from the day the enter the workforce until the day they retire.
It would be absurd to only have young crews because who is going to go through the process if becoming flight attendant if it doesn't offer a long term career? It's not exactly easy retraining and finding a new career when you're 40, 50 and particularly 60+...
Yes, older FAs can sometimes be a bit of a pain in the ass, but other times are some of the best of the best - just trying to force them out is not the solution to making things better...
Exactly and we older flight attendants care more than these younger ones who thinks it’s all about them on flights lol!
Gee, I hope you never get old, or even middle age!
Amy, are you still living in 1955 when flight attendants had to retire when they got married or had a child or gained 5 pounds or had to stay home “sick” because they got a pimple on their face? Maybe some flight attendants WANT to maintain their traveling lifestyle and DON’T WANT to have children or lock into a job in the airport at a desk… I’ve flown with many 70 year old flight attendants...
Amy, are you still living in 1955 when flight attendants had to retire when they got married or had a child or gained 5 pounds or had to stay home “sick” because they got a pimple on their face? Maybe some flight attendants WANT to maintain their traveling lifestyle and DON’T WANT to have children or lock into a job in the airport at a desk… I’ve flown with many 70 year old flight attendants who are kind, gracious, worldly and lots of fun! Flight attendants are NOT over paid for all of the nonsense that they endure from the public! They are professionals who make extreme personal sacrifices daily with their schedules, health and family lives ( missing weddings, graduations, birthdays and funerals to work their schedules) . They already make 1/2 of what a car mechanic makes and 1/3 per hour what an electrician makes, 1/5 of what an airline captain makes and 1/10 of what a lawyer makes… US Flight Attendants are true, trained professionals governed and accountable to the Federal Aviation Administration branch of the US government. They deserve a living wage for all of their sacrifice and dedication. I was shocked after reading your outdated and sexist viewpoints to see that your post was written by a WOMAN! I invite any one of you internet trolls to shadow a US based commercial airline flight attendant at her/his job for 1 week! . After the week you’d all be singing a different tune and would have nothing but praise, respect and admiration for flight attendants. After 1 week you’d exit your next flight and look the flight attendants in the eyes and THANK THEM for ALL that they do ( because they do A LOT that you aren’t even aware of while your sipping your Coke and watching your movie! ). You’d support hardworking people who have to put up with other people’s shit ( often literally) with a pleasant or neutral expression on their faces. You wouldn’t be so shallow and ugly about disparaging someone for their age ( imagine a 60 year old flight attendant having the nerve to keep her career while some inexperienced, Gen Z wants her position - the flight attendant “gig” to be able to take better selfies in exotic backgrounds and then call out sick for most weekends and holidays). Flight attendants aren’t public property. They aren’t Barbie dolls or air heads. They aren’t there to “glam up” the flying experience. Flight attendants are there for safety- to keep peace and see to it that passengers are complying with safety rules and acting respectful towards one another. You all need to get with the times!
Bravo. Hopefully more airlines follow suit. Although I’m not sure why the hourly rate is cut in half.
You are failing to understand the economics of any of this.
I think you fail to understand the economics, Gregg. Basic supply and demand in a competitive employment environment when there are staffing shortages. If you’re going to be a troll, at least pretend to understand economics.
Troll??
Yes, hence why I stated "I'm not sure."
AA has been all over for trying to maximize on-time departures - if you want FAs to put in the leg work to make it happen, this is how you do it
Yuuup, offer better pay to motivate workers.
How exactly will this incentive AA's/the industry worst FA's? With every contract we give them higher wages and we get less work/service out of them because the union protects them. Their motto is show up, play Candy Crush, and make bank.
What do you do gregg? Can i come to your work and see how productive you are all day?
I have no idea what this guy does, but he clearly hates flight attendants. Probably a wheelchair agent.
@InTheClouds Clearly he sits online and trolls flight attendants for daring to want better compensation. That's very productive.
Relatedly, I love how Gregg thinks that flight attendants "make bank." I guess it's a very low bar to "make bank" these days.
Every single comment you have made is condescending. We get it, you hate flight attendants. Those men and women bust their tails, and they absolutely deserve this. If you do work for an airline, I feel sorry for anyone that has to work with you. Sorry man, but you really have some issues.
Why do I have "issues"? Simply because I point out that paying ground time without adjusting flight pay downward is a give away?
If we want this site to consist of shills for FAs, fine. I'll go to an economics site where people 'get it.' Enjoy the echo chamber since respectful debate is apparently unwanted here. SAD!
Gregg, did you once apply to an airline to become a flight attendant and get turned down? Is that where this “flight attendant envy/hostility” is coming from? Why doesn’t a hard working, senior flight attendant deserve $72.00/hour while in the air? We get paid $2.50/hour while on the ground. At the nations top airlines, we make about $60K a year ( before taxes) and we live in cities like NYC, Chicago, SFO where the cost...
Gregg, did you once apply to an airline to become a flight attendant and get turned down? Is that where this “flight attendant envy/hostility” is coming from? Why doesn’t a hard working, senior flight attendant deserve $72.00/hour while in the air? We get paid $2.50/hour while on the ground. At the nations top airlines, we make about $60K a year ( before taxes) and we live in cities like NYC, Chicago, SFO where the cost of living is VERY high. Flight attendants are very practical and quite frugal. Car mechanics, firefighters, police, MTA bus drivers, Amtrak conductors, electricians and plumbers all make more money than flight attendants. In national surveys, the flight attendant profession is one of the most dangerous and hazardous professions in the US right now. Gregg, STOP with your illogical talk about “over inflating the hourly pay for flight attendants while they’re flying”. Look at the big picture. Normally they average 4.5 flight hours per day. It usually takes being on duty ( in uniform and in an airport or the air) between 7-13 hours per day to make those 4.5 flight hours. Are flight attendants over paid? No. Should they all make the same money per hour? No. They get a small increase annually until they max out at 12 years at $72.00/hour. At year 5, they make about $45.00/hour. So, until you understand the big picture, Gregg, I can vouch that, “you don’t know what you’re talking about”.
So while complaining about your pay, and claiming that I'm so ignorant of how this all works, you should also disclose how many days off the average FA gets every month vs other jobs. Let's compare apples to apples.
Gregg, you seem to think there is an a fixed value to the labour a flight attendant does during a days’ work so if one rate of pay goes up another should go down so everything stays in balance, costs stay the same - I’m guessing you’re worried fares go up or profits go down?
You keep saying FA’s can go get other jobs if they don’t like the pay and conditions; and that’s absolutely...
Gregg, you seem to think there is an a fixed value to the labour a flight attendant does during a days’ work so if one rate of pay goes up another should go down so everything stays in balance, costs stay the same - I’m guessing you’re worried fares go up or profits go down?
You keep saying FA’s can go get other jobs if they don’t like the pay and conditions; and that’s absolutely right. But the flip side of that is true, Delta is in a competitive market for labour.
Perhaps what they are seeing is potential new hires, from outside the industry, take one look at the pay structure and see what an antiquated mess it is and go look somewhere else for a job. Delta clearly see this as something to try to keep their planes staffed, safe and flying.
It might cost more, but we’re in an inflationary period, things are costing more and people need to be paid more to cover their needs, and for once labour supply is low so they can demand and get more.
Fares will rise and/or airlines will get less profitable, but that’s not just about FA pay that’s about all inputs.
Congrats to the FAs who get a bit more because of this and congrats to anyone who chooses an FA career, it’s a hard job. I really appreciate your work and you guys deserve to be paid for it.
So everytime you sit up front getting from A to B for X hours to a meeting you deserve a pay penalty. When you are in office and have to step away to use the restroom, grab water or caffeine then you need to be docked for not being at your station. Be careful of what you ask for...your specious argument can apply across various professions.
If Gregg thinks flight attendants get paid a lot to not do their jobs and just play on their phones, imagine his reaction when he learns about the majority of cops in this country
Why is it any of your business how a flight attendant is payed? What makes you an expert in this field of labor. Do you judge everyone you come in contact with and determine what scale they should be payed? I have worked under a union umbrella and without. A pay contract is complex with many variables. It is galling that you think you have the knowledge to comment on what a person should be...
Why is it any of your business how a flight attendant is payed? What makes you an expert in this field of labor. Do you judge everyone you come in contact with and determine what scale they should be payed? I have worked under a union umbrella and without. A pay contract is complex with many variables. It is galling that you think you have the knowledge to comment on what a person should be paid because you are a customer. You have showed your lack of intellect on so many levels that I am embarrassed for you. You have no business commenting on what anyone earns. That is between the employer and employee or those representing either party.
I disagree with you so I have a lack of intellect and I am embarrassing? So much for an attempt at a civil dialogue....