| Note: This post is updated with a statement by the blogger in response to the flight attendant’s claims… oy! |
Recently, I covered an interesting story where travel blogger JT Genter was kicked off an American Airlines flight by a flight attendant, over an overhead bin dispute. Be sure to read that post first, as I won’t recap it all here.
As many people pointed out, we only had one side of the story. So there’s a fascinating update, as we now have the flight attendant’s version of events, as well as the blogger’s response to the flight attendant’s claims.
In this post:
American flight attendant responds to blogger claims
In the comments section of the View from the Wing post about the incident, someone posted with their real name, claiming to be the flight attendant who was involved in this incident (and it checks out, based on the name used). Here’s his version of events, and the only thing I’ll change is the spacing, so it’s a bit easier to read:
I am the flight attendant whose bag was removed from the overhead bin by Mr. Genter. I agree that he should not be removed from the flight for this reason. If he had simply asked someone in the crew about space for his bag, I would have been happy to move mine to accommodate his. There was more than ample space further forward and I was not married to the spot above his seat.
I contend that Mr. Genter was well aware that my bag was a crew bag ( I have crew tags on it…) and took umbrage over the fact that my bag was in “his” overhead bin. Again, I would have moved it for him if asked and I don’t think this conflict over space is a proper reason to remove him.
The real reason he was removed was because he indicated that he did not have to comply with crew member instructions, basically defying me and 3 other flight attendants. Mr. Genter indicated to me, the purser and 2 other flight attendants that he did not have to follow the rules and there was nothing we could do about it.
I think it is reasonable to expect that this defiant and non compliant behavior would continue after take off. That is a problem not only for the security of the flight but also for the financial bottom line of my company. If he chose to remain non compliant and an incident arose with him inflight we would have been forced to divert to another airport to remove him there, costing the airline and the passengers money and time. In consultation with the captain and corporate security we determined that it was prudent to have Mr. Genter removed to avoid disrupting the otherwise normal operation of this flight.
Unrelated to the substance of what he’s saying, it’s unusual to see an employee directly address a scandal like this online, with their real name, no less. In most parts of the world, that would never happen.
Blogger responds to American flight attendant claims
In response to the comments by the flight attendant, JT has issued the following statement:
If this is a statement from the actual flight attendant, this is a slam dunk defamation case. The flight attendant cannot prove these claims, and I have audio recording of the incident that proves these claims are false.
That’s why these claims are being made in a non-verified forum (a blog comment section where you can list any name you want when commenting). If any of the crew members wants to make these claims on the record, I will respond accordingly.
It’s worth noting that American Airlines continues to decline to comment in the crew member’s defense. So, it’s seems the airline knows the crew’s actions were out of line. And it’s possible that the crew member is already facing disciplinary action based on internal reporting by the gate supervisor who was a party to the situation and listened to the audio recording.
However, JT isn’t yet prepared to actually release the audio recording of the interaction.
My take on the differing version of events in the dispute
JT is a nice guy, but as I said in the initial post, I would’ve handled things very differently than he did. I would never have moved someone else’s bag to another cabin (or even overhead bin) without consulting them, and I would also never think that I’m entitled to having my bag in a certain overhead bin.
So I don’t think he was exactly being a “model” airline passenger in terms of etiquette, but that doesn’t mean this should’ve escalated to the point that he was kicked off. Quite to the contrary, I find kicking him off over this to be a terrible overkill.
With that in mind, what can we make of the flight attendant’s version of events? First, there are a couple of facts that the two parties disagree on, which are worth going over.
JT claimed he had no clue who the bag he moved belonged to, while the flight attendant claimed he had “crew” tags on it, and that JT must have known it was a crew bag. I’m not sure who to believe here, though based on how JT described the bag as being so overstuffed, and given that he’s a frequent flyer, I think he should’ve suspected it belonged to a crew member, especially when no one claimed it. But again, that’s not a reason to be kicked off a plane, and it’s neither here not there.
The flight attendant also claimed that JT “indicated that he did not have to comply with crew member instructions,” and was “basically defying” the flight attendants. JT stated that he audio recorded the entire interaction, so he should be able to pretty easily disprove that, if it’s not the case.
JT provided full quotes of what the crew members said, though didn’t share what he said, verbatim. Did he literally say “no, I refuse to follow your instructions,” or was he simply trying to “negotiate” to keep the bag near him, if at all possible?
But here’s the crux of the reason that I think the flight attendant wasn’t exercising good judgment. Yes, passengers have to follow crew member instructions… in line with FAA regulations, and as it impacts safety. If a flight attendant asks you to do a handstand or sing, you don’t have to comply.
Did the flight attendants give JT a direct order that he needed to place his bag in X bin, or he’d be deplaned? Because it doesn’t sound like that happened. For that matter, even if they had, it’s not clear that non-compliance would’ve even violated FAA terms, at least directly.
Of course, if someone is very combative and refusing to follow instructions during boarding, I can see merit to removing them, because situations only get trickier once a plane takes off. But c’mon, if you use an ounce of common sense, it should be clear that JT isn’t going to cause a diversion over the Atlantic over nothing.
This is really the issue — the flight attendant escalated the situation, rather than deescalating the situation. He had the mindset of “well, I could argue he isn’t complying and could pose a bigger safety risk after takeoff,” rather than having the mindset of “how can we minimize the conflict here, and all move on with our day.”
It’s clear that this was an emotional situation for the flight attendant, given that he publicly told the purser (in front of the passenger) that “I want you to go to bat for me.” In other words, “I want you to escalate this situation, rather than deescalate this situation,” because he wouldn’t have felt supported if the issue were swept under the rug.
With HBO’s incredible The Rehearsal Season 2 having been about issues with pilot communication, I have an idea for Nathan Fielder to examine in the next season. How about he examine how flight attendants can deescalate situations, rather than escalate them?
Bottom line
The American flight attendant who kicked a passenger off a flight over a bag dispute has now chimed in, sharing his version of events. He claims the passenger was “defiant,” and thought he needed to be kicked off because he refused to follow instructions, and that could be a bigger issue after takeoff.
While there’s a dispute regarding the facts between the passenger and the flight attendant, I’d say the core of the issue here is pretty obvious — the flight attendant did an awful job deescalating this conflict.
The blogger has now also responded to the flight attendant, accusing him of defamation. However, he’s not yet willing to release the audio recording of what happened.
What do you make of the flight attendant’s version of events?
I don't know JT, nor the FA involved. But, just my reading of both of their statements, I place a lot more validity on JT's. The FA comes across as "covering their a**" and parsing statements. And given past experiences with FAs, especially on domestic US airlines, I give the benefit of the doubt to JT.
I don't get it; this all could have been avoided if he just said, "I am terribly sorry that I did this, I wasn't aware that this was your bag, and that's my fault". Accountability is everything in this day and age.
Power trip vs. Power trip.
Entitlement is everything in this day and age.
This whole thing could have been de-escalated at so many different points. What I find fascinating is that the EIC of AwardWallet is picking a public fight with AA. AwardWallet has had its share of ups and downs with AA over the years - most recently downs. Feels like AwardWallet would want to try and win back AA, and having its EIC in a flame war with AA just isn’t a good look.
What I take from this story is just how often does this kind of thing happen at AA?
This individual situation is highly publicised because it happened to affect someone that just coincidentally writes a travel/airline blog.
I really wonder how many every day Joe's that don't have the same platform are being booted of AA flights by FA's who deem them 'defiant'?
-JT clearly paints a very one-sided story open to no interpretation but his own. Which I’m not faulting, as that’s common. He knows AA won’t go into detail with any response or comment publicly with any specifics. So it’s very easy to paint a picture with no defense.
-I’ve never seen a crew bag that wasn’t labeled as such.
-JT mentioned a couple of times in his account that the PE cabin was...
-JT clearly paints a very one-sided story open to no interpretation but his own. Which I’m not faulting, as that’s common. He knows AA won’t go into detail with any response or comment publicly with any specifics. So it’s very easy to paint a picture with no defense.
-I’ve never seen a crew bag that wasn’t labeled as such.
-JT mentioned a couple of times in his account that the PE cabin was filled with non-revs, and somehow he had a count of 21 non-revs in the cabin.
-Flight crew are instructed to distribute their bags throughout the cabin so as to not interfere heavily with any particular part of the aircraft. I can’t fault one crew bag being in PE, in the last row. It is also important that crew know where their bags are in the event of an emergency as they have manuals, forms, etc., they may need to access.
-In JT’s disdain it seems for non-revs or employees sitting around him, perhaps that came into his offense that a bag was in “HIS” space overhead.
-He never should have touched or moved the bag. That could be a crime in NY as someone mentioned.
-While NY is a one party consent state for recording, recording crew is a violation of AA’s rules, to which you agree when you buy a ticket. So… use a recording to prove your point, but in doing so you admit to a violation of AA’s published rules. So they got you either way.
I’ve had people touch my bag in the overhead… other passengers that is. Yeah, I wouldn’t have responded if he asked whose bag is this. I would have let him put it in the aisle or try and move it. Then flag down crew and ask where did my bag go – and I think that guy was messing with it.
It isn’t the place of passengers to “enforce” whose bag goes in what overhead bin. There isn’t a banishment of bags from one cabin or individual going anywhere. At some point, crew will say take any open space you see to passengers.
Just his assumption that he could move the bag, and that it must be a coach bag put wrongfully one row ahead of where it’s “allowed” just tanks his whole argument and makes him unsympathetic.
For anyone taking exception to the passenger moving a bag... On virtually ALL flights are moved by passengers. Most are moved just a little bit, some to another bin. Moving to another bin is less common, but likely happens hundreds of times a day on thousands and thousands of flights.
As a person that travels hundreds of thousands of miles a year, I can tell you why JT assumed it was a coach passenger's bag......
For anyone taking exception to the passenger moving a bag... On virtually ALL flights are moved by passengers. Most are moved just a little bit, some to another bin. Moving to another bin is less common, but likely happens hundreds of times a day on thousands and thousands of flights.
As a person that travels hundreds of thousands of miles a year, I can tell you why JT assumed it was a coach passenger's bag... It is because on lots of flights coach passengers toss their bags in the first bins they find and walk to the back. In many many cases, that is business class or PE. (That is why he asked around. And when no one stepped up, he assumed (incorrectly) that it was an economy passenger's bag.
One could also ask, where were the AA flight attendants during boarding? My guess is hanging in the galley chatting, playing on their phones. Anyone who flies regularly has seen this on most flights.
I do not believe JT Genter ! Drunk sob! He is another one of those "Victims".
@Lucky - Ask JT to let you listen to the recording. You can then verify (or dispute) that JT is telling the truth. Seems pretty simple.
Without the recording, it is purely he said / she said.
that's a good idea
If I recall correctly, this incident took place on a flight from US to UK, on a B-777. This aircraft operates with 10 +/- flight attendants. They are the first to board the aircraft, they all have carry-on baggage, they all place this baggage in the overhead bins? There's something wrong with this picture. If this is the case, then American Airlines should configure their aircraft with space to accomodate crew members' baggage and not...
If I recall correctly, this incident took place on a flight from US to UK, on a B-777. This aircraft operates with 10 +/- flight attendants. They are the first to board the aircraft, they all have carry-on baggage, they all place this baggage in the overhead bins? There's something wrong with this picture. If this is the case, then American Airlines should configure their aircraft with space to accomodate crew members' baggage and not have them compete with the passengers in an unfair competition.
Regarding the issue in place, I tend to agree with Lee's comment, there is, currently, a strong and obvious negative vibe coming from flight attendants towards passengers with tendencies easily reaching the level of abuse.
This is really very simple for any frequent flyer. They were both dead wrong. No one should move another person’s item in the overhead without explicit permission…full stop. The flight attendant’s reaction was over-the-top, inexcusable and just plain wrong; but truly indicative of AA’s current service culture, where flight attendants are there strictly for your safety (hopefully), and passengers are treated as the enemy.
Wow this story is one day old and I'm already tired of it. Why is it that travel bloggers are either some of the coolest people or some of the most exhausting people to be around
this is best comment on any of the blogs covering this
That's not what defamation means.
Interesting. Would like to hear the audio on this. If you say you don't have to comply with crew instruction, then that can jeopordaize an emergency situation. If this blogger has audio he should release but at what point did he start recording? Is the audio edited? If this blogger was recording from the beginnig then was actions planned? Pretty sure there are witnesses that the airline can contact.
What does it matter that whether he knew who's bag it was or not? He shouldn't have touched anybody else's bag, Also releasing any partial recording means nothing - all or nothing, I'm also not sure why the fact that he's a blogger has any sugnificange at all - unless there is some super entitlement based on that. Drinking may have been involved, or maybe his blog just needed some publicity (which he is now getting).
Beware flight attendants are coordinating responses to this story in their Facebook groups.
Scott, oddly, is heavily in there as well, despite being in London for something called Fetish Week. Those traveling with him in PE were almost entirely nonrev and they seem to be having a great time based on his socials.
I think he knows he's *done*.
@ Not Scott -- Any chance you could shoot me an email at [email protected]?
Wow, Not Scott, way to be a horrible person.
Move your BAG ! - you are an EMPLOYEE! He is a CUSTOMER!
Entitlement -- the F/A should be FIRED!
https://liveandletsfly.com/flight-attendant-defends-removal-of-blogger-american-airlines/
I know he is a blogger that quite a few people may dislike but he did include a response from JT to the flight attendant. Also, JT said anyone can leave whatever name when commenting on blogs so it makes me wonder on Ben’s previous post of this incident was it the actual JT Genter.
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/american-airlines-passenger-removed-flight-attendant-b2769086.html
It stated that the captain of the flight observation of it was that it was just an ‘honest...
https://liveandletsfly.com/flight-attendant-defends-removal-of-blogger-american-airlines/
I know he is a blogger that quite a few people may dislike but he did include a response from JT to the flight attendant. Also, JT said anyone can leave whatever name when commenting on blogs so it makes me wonder on Ben’s previous post of this incident was it the actual JT Genter.
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/american-airlines-passenger-removed-flight-attendant-b2769086.html
It stated that the captain of the flight observation of it was that it was just an ‘honest mistake’ which may demonstrate how that flight attendant went on a power trip. Offload JT from the flight to satisfy the flight attendant’s ego or keep JT on the flight with his bag placed in front cabin and try to deal with flight attendant’s power trip?
@ Stanley C -- All statements that I included from JT are either directly from his blog post, or what he has emailed to me. And I included JT's latest statement in this post as well.
@Ben Thank you Ben. I posted this around the same time as you posted your update.
When I made the comment about whether it was the real JT Genter it was in reference to comments left on your earlier post of the incident possibly by someone else. Your response along with JT’s on Matt’s blog makes me really think that person probably was not the real JT Genter. Maybe? Not?
interesting
This incident is just another example of the deplorable attitude and poor customer service that is for some reason so prevalent among US airline employees. There's clearly a mentally that they are somehow above customers rather than realizing they are there to SERVE customers. I don't know if it's due to the presence of unions with their constant fighting and the difficulty of firing these bad apples because of the union protections (much like in...
This incident is just another example of the deplorable attitude and poor customer service that is for some reason so prevalent among US airline employees. There's clearly a mentally that they are somehow above customers rather than realizing they are there to SERVE customers. I don't know if it's due to the presence of unions with their constant fighting and the difficulty of firing these bad apples because of the union protections (much like in the government), or just American society in general with people having such a self-centered and argumentative attitude. I was recently on a flight in Japan with one of the Japanese airlines, and the staff were universally friendly, smiling, and professional, plus one of the FAs went above and beyond to make my flight (just in coach) nice, even without asking. Maybe the US government needs to abolish the unions which seem like such a divisive force that teaches the FAs defiance and to think of themselves as "victims."
And for those who thinks the FA is wrong, would it be ok if he moved your bag to another section and then gave you attitude about it and insisting his bag stays? I bet you not!
Agreed. But I wouldn't want he/her/they booted off the flight in revenge.
No matter how you try to spin this, he (JT Genter) was wrong. And it's the entitlement for me! And then we want to determine whether or not the actions taken was justified. I believe the FA(s) as I have seen where passengers feel entitled to do what they want because they "paid for their ticket" and are rude to the FAs. Who moves another person's back from the overhead bin to another section but...
No matter how you try to spin this, he (JT Genter) was wrong. And it's the entitlement for me! And then we want to determine whether or not the actions taken was justified. I believe the FA(s) as I have seen where passengers feel entitled to do what they want because they "paid for their ticket" and are rude to the FAs. Who moves another person's back from the overhead bin to another section but someone who felt entitled to do so. And worse yet, felt that his bag should remain because it was more convenient for him as it was closer. How many people have had to put their bags in another section because of space, and it was no problem. But he felt he shouldn't have to and then still want to argue about it. If you let people get away with doing it once, they continue to feel entitled and then want to do what they want. I am sure it was because of his attitude why he got kicked off and not just because he moved the bag. Also, if he flies as much as he says, he KNEW that was an FA's bag (because yes, they have tags). Stop playing! He did that thinking he would get away with it. And because he didn't, he gave them attitude is why he got kicked off! They did the right thing!
Can we also have a “if you let entitled FAs get away with it once…..” counter-point please?
Whatever happened to the customer is always right? Flight crew needs to go back to school or get transferred to Spirit Airlines.gohkids
The Flight Attendant has such a huge 'entitled' attitude that needs to be addressed by American. Traveling now seems like one is in a Troika state of gate agent flight attendant and Aircraft captain. No rights and o recourse. There is a battle between passengers and crew that is growing bigger and bigger. The management of airlines needs to moderate this. I'm personally intimidated by the perceived power of the crew. I've always respected and...
The Flight Attendant has such a huge 'entitled' attitude that needs to be addressed by American. Traveling now seems like one is in a Troika state of gate agent flight attendant and Aircraft captain. No rights and o recourse. There is a battle between passengers and crew that is growing bigger and bigger. The management of airlines needs to moderate this. I'm personally intimidated by the perceived power of the crew. I've always respected and complied even when their attitude is 'ugly'.
It's American Airlines - cranky employees are the norm, but in this case, sure sounds like an entitled blogger wanting drama for more views.
'Wanting more drama...'. Thing is, it is kinda dramatic! It isn't one of those situations where someone is going on and on and on about how they were spoken to or looked at or...
This guy was actually BOOTED OFF A FLIGHT. For moving a bag. I am not a blogger but I would be pretty dramatic about it too.
I still side with the flight attendant. One should never try to move someelses already stowed luggage. Period. He needs his meds nearby is BS they invented pocket eons ago.
Case closed Jerk got what he deserved.
@rassalas Just wow. You side with that FA who told the purser ‘I want you to go to bat for me’??? You must be so unfazed by the attitude of U.S. based airline flight attendants.
Rassalas is right here. You do what a FA tells you, unless you want to be booted off the flight. Basic respect. JT got uppity and paid the price.
@Tom ‘Yes, passengers have to follow crew member instruction… in line with FAA regulations, and as it impacts safety. If a flight attendant asks you to do a handstand or sing, you don’t have to comply.’ This is a quote from Ben.
I am quite certain that his placement of his bag and moving it somewhere else does not relate to safety of this flight. If you read Ben’s previous article about this situation...
@Tom ‘Yes, passengers have to follow crew member instruction… in line with FAA regulations, and as it impacts safety. If a flight attendant asks you to do a handstand or sing, you don’t have to comply.’ This is a quote from Ben.
I am quite certain that his placement of his bag and moving it somewhere else does not relate to safety of this flight. If you read Ben’s previous article about this situation that flight attendant refused to work this flight if JT was not offloaded. As others have pointed out, it is very doubtful that there would be any safety issues if JT was allowed to stay on the flight and his bag moved elsewhere which was what the purser wanted to do but the colleague wanted the purser to ‘to go to bat for me’. Mutual respect would require both sides, JT and the flight attendant. Purser did try a bit to deescalate the situation but the colleague just did the opposite. U.S. airline flight attendant on a power trip which is not uncommon.
Check JT twitter account. 117% of his posts are complains about American. Then he fly American every other day...
A question worth considering is this: Would that same passenger have behaved similarly if it were the captain’s luggage? And if so, would that have been acceptable?
Flight attendants, as working crew members, may require immediate access to specific items stored in their luggage in order to fulfill their FAA-mandated safety duties. If a flight attendant is unable to locate their bag because a self-serving—or possibly intoxicated—passenger has moved it without permission, that action not...
A question worth considering is this: Would that same passenger have behaved similarly if it were the captain’s luggage? And if so, would that have been acceptable?
Flight attendants, as working crew members, may require immediate access to specific items stored in their luggage in order to fulfill their FAA-mandated safety duties. If a flight attendant is unable to locate their bag because a self-serving—or possibly intoxicated—passenger has moved it without permission, that action not only disrupts operations but could also pose a safety risk to everyone onboard.
It’s important to understand that purchasing a seat on a commercial flight does not grant a passenger authority over the conduct of the flight, nor does it allow them to override the protocols and responsibilities of the flight crew. Entitlement and disregard for standard procedures are not just discourteous—they could compromise the safety of the flight.
Can someone please ask the FA why he didn't put his bags in the same first/business class bin, where he told the pax he could place his.
Jt outed himself as a jerk when he moved another persons bag. End of story.
He was also probably a jerk before he started recording then changed his tone for the audience later.
It’s clear to me he feels entitled as a publicly known blogger
The "blogger" sounds like an entitled twat. You don't move another passengers baggage because it's your space, let alone to another class. I've encountered countless travel "bloggers" who think they are celebrities and owed something. Glad he got what was coming.
Ultimately why did the FA put the wretched bag there in the first place? He could have put it anywhere - the one of the cupboards. No, he could not be bothered and stuck it there. Ultimately if the passenger recorded the exchange then that will be decisive. Neither party emerges with glory, but all this fuss over a stupid bag? Should the recording be found to be true then that FA should be written...
Ultimately why did the FA put the wretched bag there in the first place? He could have put it anywhere - the one of the cupboards. No, he could not be bothered and stuck it there. Ultimately if the passenger recorded the exchange then that will be decisive. Neither party emerges with glory, but all this fuss over a stupid bag? Should the recording be found to be true then that FA should be written up and made to fly domestic shuttles and if he does not like that he can leave.
Agreed. This happens all the time and I'm sick of it. FA's should have their own baggage space and if there isn't one then they have to check their bags in like international flight crews do.
This just speaks to how American culture works - everything is about escalating not de-escalating. It's how flight attendants do their job, it's how TSA work, it's how American police work. It's ingrained in US Society. You can be the nicest, politest and most rule-observing citizen and you will find yourself in a situation.
I've met JT...*really* nice guy who goes above and beyond to be helpful, so I almost did a spit-take when I saw his name in a headline on my feed.
That said, while I have no dog in this fight, my perspective as a regular occupant of the lowly Y cabin has me scratching my head over one particular detail: the assumption assume that one will be fortunate enough to have a carry-on directly...
I've met JT...*really* nice guy who goes above and beyond to be helpful, so I almost did a spit-take when I saw his name in a headline on my feed.
That said, while I have no dog in this fight, my perspective as a regular occupant of the lowly Y cabin has me scratching my head over one particular detail: the assumption assume that one will be fortunate enough to have a carry-on directly overhead, or within reach/view. For that reason, I travel with a small (5-10L) sling with just enough room for my most critical/sensitive items: wallet, passport, electronics, medication, etc. It's small enough that it can squeeze into the tiniest of remaining cavities overhead, and worst-case, if I need to place it under the seat, it still leaves plenty of room for my big-a** size 15 feet.
I guess my question is whether "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" is something people feel like they no longer need to worry about when cabin upgrades and their related benefits become one's modis operandi.
Taking at face value that the person making the comment is in fact the Flight Attendant involved, the audio recording of JT simply does not correlate with the claim of the Flight Attendant that JT was 'defiant'.
Also that JT was 'non compliant'.
Nothing in the audio recording (again taking the contents of this at face value) give the impression of someone being non compliant.
Adding to that the supposed recording of the request from...
Taking at face value that the person making the comment is in fact the Flight Attendant involved, the audio recording of JT simply does not correlate with the claim of the Flight Attendant that JT was 'defiant'.
Also that JT was 'non compliant'.
Nothing in the audio recording (again taking the contents of this at face value) give the impression of someone being non compliant.
Adding to that the supposed recording of the request from the Flight Attendant that the Purser 'go bat for me' well, he doesn't have a leg to stand on really.
It sounds like the FA is desperately back peddling using the one stop shop 'non compliant' as his shield.
While JT was entitled in his actions by moving someone's bag, this shouldn't warrant removal from the flight. Just imagine how this would've been dealt with on Japan Airlines, Qatar or Singapore Airlines; it would've most certainly had a different outcome.
This issue would never have arisen on those airlines, lol.
This would have never ever occurred on one of these airlines in the first place. Flight attendants behave themselves on these carriers.
A question worth considering is this: Would that same passenger have behaved similarly if it were the captain’s luggage? And if so, would that have been acceptable?
Flight attendants, as working crew members, may require immediate access to specific items stored in their luggage in order to fulfill their FAA-mandated safety duties. If a flight attendant is unable to locate their bag because a self-serving passenger has moved it without permission, that action not only...
A question worth considering is this: Would that same passenger have behaved similarly if it were the captain’s luggage? And if so, would that have been acceptable?
Flight attendants, as working crew members, may require immediate access to specific items stored in their luggage in order to fulfill their FAA-mandated safety duties. If a flight attendant is unable to locate their bag because a self-serving passenger has moved it without permission, that action not only disrupts operations but could also pose a safety risk to everyone onboard.
It’s important to understand that purchasing a seat on a commercial flight does not grant a passenger authority over the conduct of the flight, nor does it allow them to override the protocols and responsibilities of the flight crew. Entitlement and disregard for standard procedures are not just discourteous—they could compromise the safety of the flight.
While JT was entitled in his actions by moving someone's bag, this shouldn't warrant removal from the flight. Just imagine how this would've been dealt with on Japan Airlines, Qatar or Singapore Airlines; it would've most certainly had a different outcome.
Yep, 100% true.
“ I think it is reasonable to expect that this defiant and non compliant behavior would continue after take off.”
I think it’s unreasonable to make this assumption. This explanation reeks of entitlement.
This seems like a pointless argument, but it is the case that I'm not going to be disposed to believing a single thing that an AA flight attendant says in any situation, especially in defense of their jobs at this point.
Prior to the last labor contract negotiation I might have flown AA at most four times a year, maybe booked three or for partner flights through their website. In the year leading up to...
This seems like a pointless argument, but it is the case that I'm not going to be disposed to believing a single thing that an AA flight attendant says in any situation, especially in defense of their jobs at this point.
Prior to the last labor contract negotiation I might have flown AA at most four times a year, maybe booked three or for partner flights through their website. In the year leading up to the last renegotiation I was in a rarer period of frequent domestic travel visition many different US airports, maybe 20 or 30 flights that year and never had a single complaint about the crew, the cabins were also generally more quiet, fewer groups of obvious criminals harassing me aboard in flight as a captive audience as has been the case around the world.
Into fall of last year, the new political season, all of that began to change drastically on AA flights and inside their hubs, particularly LAX. It began to take on the dimensions of something like an area denial campaign. Then you start to see gangs moving on specific terminals and taking jobs en masse in ground services and the restaurants.
Like mafia labor racketeering with an aggressive political and criminal agenda. Who can say? New fat labor contract, AA suddenly pays the most and offers more guarantees, like these people just got tenure.
So strange. Into the new year, now the overall level of open, criminal and degenerate behavior by flight attendants and ticketing agents rises above the other carriers at most airports, particularly in Texas and the Southeast.
I'm afraid I'm going to require AA's stewardesses comply with federal laws regarding drugs and traffic in persons before I take their side in a cabin baggage dispute. They are acting more and more like nasty, terrorist, hookers all over the network. Was something else said? Are they doxxing the guy, abusing the information systems for criminal stalking, pimping women, trying to extort him?
That apology is a big pile of dog shit.
Looks like insubordination to me, plain and simple. And that makes it the cabin crew's call whether he flies or not.
And 6 hours in the Soho Lounge before flying PE? Hmmm
It's not the cabin crews call. It's the captains call. Some steward has no authority over passengers.
No, Captain is in charge but he delates authority to the cabin crew. Pax have to obey cabin crew.
Curious ........ Does the flight attendant address any portion of the recorded conversation in their statement?
While we do not know if the printed portion of the conversation is edited and to what degree, it would be interesting to read the FA's response to their alleged statements.
Why in world did he voluntarily get off the plane? An experienced traveler would know that "We just want to speak to you on the jetbridge" means that once you walk off the plane, you're not getting back on.
@Lucky
Are you going to allow this kind of vile (cursing for someone's life) comment on your site?
@ Neal -- Absolutely not. He has just been given a 30-day vacation.
Aso don't forget, flight attendants are NOT GETTING PAID during boarding. They are working for free until that door closes. So every bag that needs space and every water you ask for while they're setting up their galleys for the flight...
wrong airline. AA has boarding pay
@Julie you should make sure that Tara reads this as well. Tara who claims to be an AA flight attendant commented on a previous post that AA flight attendants do not get paid until the door closes so no boarding pay.
JT is not "a nice guy." JT is an asshole.
JT is 100% high class, polite (unfailingly), and NEVER an asshole. He doesn't have a single asshole gene in his body.
The fact that Arps is saying this should tell you in fact that the opposite is true lol
Tell me you've never met JT without telling me you've ever met JT.
Hear hear!
I was a flight attendant for a US major airline. I agree, it escalated. But don't f*** with someone, perhaps on call 24/7, on the last leg of a 4-day trip. We're tired. Etiquette plays both ways. Non-compliant customers are propably best left to wait for the next flight if the crew are unable to de-escalate the situation. Would they rather deal with an excalation in flight???
American flight attendants need to learn how to behave themselves and realize their (low) position in the foodchain.
"Low" position? FAs work hard, and ridiculous hours, to keep folks - many who have condescending, arrogant attitudes - safe. Their work is stressful - physically and otherwise - and their pay is pretty crappy when you consider what they are subjected to. Despite what you might think about them, they are humans at work when we interact with them. Leave the caste system in the lounge.
First of all, FAs don't work hard. Especially not AA's sky waitresses.
Secondly, you're the help without an education. Your bags can fly if paying customers' bags are neatly stored where the paying customer wants it.
Finally, it's time to ban nonrevs. Scott Shoup had this attitude because most of the cabin was filled with his friends going with him for the annual Fetish Week in London.
The passengers might be equally overworked, overtired, and in no mood for shenanigans.
You're not the only one with problems, Dolly. But unlike the passengers, you've got a union who backs up your ridiculous behavior.
In other news, turns out AA was correct not to restart TLV so soon, it would seem
Call me crazy, but if I worked at Delta dispatch, I would’ve turned this flight around by now…
1021pm est and it’s still headed to TLV
https://fr24.com/DAL234/3ac5d1a2
I’m sure it will divert… but to where?
I will take the FA's account of the event over some blogger's - any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Blogger has a financial incentive to sensationalize, FA doesn't.
But this is the internet. None of this he said / he said means anything.
“Blogger has a financial incentive to sensationalize, FA doesn't.”
Of course the FA has a financial incentive - he wants to keep his job.
If flight attendants really think that it's their right to give passengers "direct orders," which are to be neither discussed or disobeyed, then I would damn well expect them all to have high-level training-with regular continuing education- focussing on de-escalation and crisis management.
Because my humble opinion is that passengers are absolutely NOT in a FA's "chain of command" and if passengers are required to simply obey without question, the person giving those commands...
If flight attendants really think that it's their right to give passengers "direct orders," which are to be neither discussed or disobeyed, then I would damn well expect them all to have high-level training-with regular continuing education- focussing on de-escalation and crisis management.
Because my humble opinion is that passengers are absolutely NOT in a FA's "chain of command" and if passengers are required to simply obey without question, the person giving those commands had best be competent, assured, and fair. The FA on this flight, who had an absolute meltdown because someone had the temerity to move his bag, possesses none of those traits.
Chris, not true, pax must follow the crew's instructions at all time.
I have nothing but respect for JT. Well liked and always seems polite.
If you read further in the VFTW comments, there is a post about this particular F/A having previous disciplinary issues.
Sounds like it's time to go.
+100000000
The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Maybe JT was tired I think he’s a cool dude. Being difficult about that is his overhead space is not grounds for being removed from the flight good thing there are 30 flights between jfk and London nowadays. Maybe JT was mistaken for a non rev (not that they should be treated indifferently but they are ). The FA should apologize and American did service recovery.
It...
The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Maybe JT was tired I think he’s a cool dude. Being difficult about that is his overhead space is not grounds for being removed from the flight good thing there are 30 flights between jfk and London nowadays. Maybe JT was mistaken for a non rev (not that they should be treated indifferently but they are ). The FA should apologize and American did service recovery.
It was not a good day I don’t like that Boeing is going to be thrown under the bus. Air India should be bankrupted immediately and not allowed to enter US airspace for their faulty maintenance and negligence pending investigation.
Going back to the first post made (linked to above), and assuming that the blogger is being truthful...honestly, "I am refusing to fly this flight because of a disagreement with a passenger not involving a safety/security situation" ought to be a sackable offense. It certainly comes across that this was an overreaction.
Now, maybe there's more complexity here (there certainly are times when FAs get stuck needing to put their foot down with actually violently...
Going back to the first post made (linked to above), and assuming that the blogger is being truthful...honestly, "I am refusing to fly this flight because of a disagreement with a passenger not involving a safety/security situation" ought to be a sackable offense. It certainly comes across that this was an overreaction.
Now, maybe there's more complexity here (there certainly are times when FAs get stuck needing to put their foot down with actually violently combative pax - I've heard some fun stories involving that)...but there have been enough issues with FAs going on power trips this side of 9/11 that I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt over this (/especially/ given that the FA whose bag was moved was apparently not the one who threw a fit?).
Since when has it become taboo to touch or move flight attendants’ bags?
Are they made of materials that something will happen when you move them?
Why is this FA so pissed that someone moved his bags?
This is beyond ridiculous and stupid.
Yes please! Where on Earth is stated, that you cannot touch FA’s bag. And why they dont have dedicated section to avoid any misunderstanding?
Forget about moving a flight attendant's bag.
Is it ever ok to move some other passengers' bag to another area of the plane? (slightly adjusting in the same bin is perhaps ok)
Doing that is inviting trouble.
I meant:
Is it ever ok to move some other passengers' bag to another area of the plane without their permission? (slightly adjusting in the same bin is perhaps ok)
The FA does himself no favors by trying to justify the unjustifiable. Hopefully, I never fly on a plane that he's working.
I worked for American Airlines for 11 years in HDQ as a lawyer. There are two work groups that can be extraordinarily untruthful: flight attendants and Admiral’s Club agents. The letters they would write in response to an investigation were often the most self-serving drivel, with lots of irrelevant details always highlighting how they are so customer focused but the customer is always wrong. Then again, it is these kinds of employees that are most...
I worked for American Airlines for 11 years in HDQ as a lawyer. There are two work groups that can be extraordinarily untruthful: flight attendants and Admiral’s Club agents. The letters they would write in response to an investigation were often the most self-serving drivel, with lots of irrelevant details always highlighting how they are so customer focused but the customer is always wrong. Then again, it is these kinds of employees that are most likely to get into problems with passengers. And don’t get me started on how they treat non-revs!
This.
This FA lost me when he uses "financial bottom line of my company" and "costing the airline and the passengers money and time."
Can't think of a bigger bulls**t than this. Even Tim Dunn's fluff isn't this shameless.
AA crew would hardly ever care about financial bottom line enough to save money for the company.
If this really is coming from the flight attendant, then there is only one reason for him going public. He already lost his case with American Airlines and he is trying to change the narrative perhaps to save his job.
Anyone with any sense, right or wrong, would try to remain anonymous under the circumstances. There is not upside to putting your name out there.
JT reported that he played his recording for the American...
If this really is coming from the flight attendant, then there is only one reason for him going public. He already lost his case with American Airlines and he is trying to change the narrative perhaps to save his job.
Anyone with any sense, right or wrong, would try to remain anonymous under the circumstances. There is not upside to putting your name out there.
JT reported that he played his recording for the American Airlines supervisor. If that is true, American Airlines knows what was actually said during the incident.
Or, the flight attendant knows that JT is full of crap and will not accept being slandered without defending himself. Strange that JT, despite having all this recorded evidence, has not chosen to share it. There is a lot of "JT said he did this" in all of these stories but no one and nothing to actually back up his version of events
You are not being slandered if you are not identified in the post. If you defend yourself (rightly or wrongly), you are now putting a name to the flight attendant. You are no longer anonymous. This is a mistake I would urge people not to make.
Can we remove someone just because one person feels someone might do something that has never or might never happen? So a flight attendant sees a passenger is praying while the plane is on the ground and the flight attendant feels this person might do something later in the air so they remove this person?
The critical peice of information here was this....he decided to board late in the process and there wasnt any bin space left. He was so elitist to start moving everyone else's for his entitled behind to have his bag over his seat. He should not have moved any bag.....a travel blogger should know that.....
When i get on board to F class late...i dont expect everyone around me to move for me being late onto...
The critical peice of information here was this....he decided to board late in the process and there wasnt any bin space left. He was so elitist to start moving everyone else's for his entitled behind to have his bag over his seat. He should not have moved any bag.....a travel blogger should know that.....
When i get on board to F class late...i dont expect everyone around me to move for me being late onto the aircraft....i look and be accomodating to get my bag in somewhere and be very graceful and nice about it.
yes, plus he was a BS miles/upgrade guy who doesn't pay regular for tickets. He should be banned
Agreed, Isaac, there is more than a sniff of smug, self-absorbed entitlement about boarding late and thinking that you can rearrange everyone else's bags to suit yourself.
Worth noting JT says on another site that he spent 6 hours in the Soho lounge before the flight. Sounds like alcohol had a role in being a jerk to either:
1. Another passenger (per his account) where he just took a bag and moved it to another cabin with no idea whatsoever why it was there. And no, it's not normal to just move a bag because no one responds to your yelling...
Worth noting JT says on another site that he spent 6 hours in the Soho lounge before the flight. Sounds like alcohol had a role in being a jerk to either:
1. Another passenger (per his account) where he just took a bag and moved it to another cabin with no idea whatsoever why it was there. And no, it's not normal to just move a bag because no one responds to your yelling in the W cabin. C'mon? Isolating it alone to what JT Genter says without involving the FA whatsoever. Who just takes a bag out of the overhead bin, no idea who it belongs to, then puts it in a different cabin? That's not normal, it's just flat out rude.
2. The FA. How does a seasoned traveler have no idea what a flight attendant bag looks like? In which case, he just took a flight attendant bag and moved it, also not cool
The FA obviously overreacted but when is the last time anyone saw 3-4 flight attendants around a passenger and thought "wow. that passenger is such a nice guy moving someone else's bag to another cabin having no idea who it belongs to by his own account?"
Of course the FA overreacted but there's no normal world where you just take a bag from the overhead bin and move it to a lower class cabin when you don't know why it's there or who it belongs to. Even in his own account, there's some poor sucker that has no idea where his/her bag is when they land because JT just moved it with no idea why it was there.
It's a rude thing to do by his own telling of the story leaving the FA out of the story.
It's a good thing there's an audio recording of these events
Listen to the audio brah
Rare sane take from Julie.
JT should just release the full audio/transcript and let people judge the interaction for themselves.
It's odd that he summarizes what he says instead of sharing the verbatims, which he did for the FAs.
I suspect he came off as less than becoming, which would make people less sympathetic.
As ever, yolo, thank you for your continued monitoring and interest in my posts
No problem, I'm glad that attending behavioral therapy for your severely dysfunctional personality disorders has helped you significantly.
It can be hard to seek help, so you're very brave for doing so.
Yolo, your knowledge of personality disorders seems quite indicting on yourself.
Perhaps don't post to me that you monitor me so closely and you won't be noted as psychotic. You only live once, YOLO, it's a shame you waste it monitoring my posts so closely.
Get a life
So, Julie, how many drinks has he had?
Or it’s just baseless speculation?
Do I look like I was at the soho lounge staring at his alcohol intake? It’s not the hardest thing to consider given his behavior and attitude toward the crew.
Release the tape, JT.
Drinking is just something most people do when they spend six hours at a club where the drinks are free. Heads up, Voian
Given Mr Genter’s own take on his privilege just moving other passenger bags around to fit his...
Do I look like I was at the soho lounge staring at his alcohol intake? It’s not the hardest thing to consider given his behavior and attitude toward the crew.
Release the tape, JT.
Drinking is just something most people do when they spend six hours at a club where the drinks are free. Heads up, Voian
Given Mr Genter’s own take on his privilege just moving other passenger bags around to fit his own bag coupled with four FAs coming to talk to him…
If the shoe fits, it’s usually Cinderella
Ah, get it.
I can equally speculate that the FA was doing drugs before the incident. And back it up by saying it’s not the hardest thing to consider given FA’s behavior and attitude toward the passenger.
That’s a pretty stupid comparison. Mr Genter posted publicly that he just came from six hours at an all you can drink alcohol location.
And his behavior, by his own take, is that of an asshole to other passengers on just that alone, leaving the FA out of it completely.
Agreed Julie, and JT would have been tempted to drink in the lounge since he was stuck in lowly PE for the flight. He probably thought he should have been upgraded.
Why? I spent six hours at the Cathay Pacific Lounge in HK last week and didn't have a drop of alcohol. Not sure how you come up with this drivel. Does staying a lounge mandate you to consume alcohol?
This flight attendant should be fired and never fly again.
Being in a lounge with unlimited drinks doesn't mandate drinking alcohol but it is the norm to indulge. Coupled with his behavior, per Mr Genter, toward another passenger then a refusal to follow a VERY simple Flight Attendant order from 4 flight attendants, it reeks of every tipsy passenger encounter I've witnessed from my seats.
I'm not a flight attendant, but if I was a passenger sitting across from Mr Genter at the time...
Being in a lounge with unlimited drinks doesn't mandate drinking alcohol but it is the norm to indulge. Coupled with his behavior, per Mr Genter, toward another passenger then a refusal to follow a VERY simple Flight Attendant order from 4 flight attendants, it reeks of every tipsy passenger encounter I've witnessed from my seats.
I'm not a flight attendant, but if I was a passenger sitting across from Mr Genter at the time of the incident I would think he was an asshole for what he did initially and just plain stupid to not follow such a simple instruction. Frankly, I'd want him booted off the flight if he was unable to follow such an extremely simple instruction even after what Mr Genter himself admits was wrong, moving a bag unilaterally.
If you look at Mr Genter's own article comments, he freely admits now he was wrong over and over to his commenters about moving someone's bag... yet his reaction at the time was to refuse to move his bag. His actions at the time and inability to back down on something he now admits was a sh**ty thing to do just sounds exactly like someone who had a few drinks before his flight. And there's nothing wrong with that except when it causes you to be an asshole to another passenger, per mr Genter, or when it causes you to refuse the orders of 4 Flight Attendants.
I think there's a reason Mr Genter hasn't released the audio, he probably sounds slurred if I had to guess.
Yep, highly likely JT had more than he could handle.
As a flight attendant with over 30 years of experience (though not with an American carrier), I’d like to offer a few thoughts on this situation—particularly from the crew’s perspective.
First, “this is my overhead bin” is one of the oldest and most frustrating myths in air travel. No passenger owns the space above their seat. On my airline, many of the crew closets we used to rely on for our luggage have been removed...
As a flight attendant with over 30 years of experience (though not with an American carrier), I’d like to offer a few thoughts on this situation—particularly from the crew’s perspective.
First, “this is my overhead bin” is one of the oldest and most frustrating myths in air travel. No passenger owns the space above their seat. On my airline, many of the crew closets we used to rely on for our luggage have been removed to maximize seating. As a result, crew members—yes, even in premium cabins—are required to stow their bags in designated overhead bins that don't even have placards saying that they're for crew use. These often end up being above passenger seats. That’s not crew being entitled—it’s operational necessity.
Also, experienced travelers should know that if something is truly valuable or irreplaceable, it should never go in the overhead bin. Bags there are not always in your line of sight, and theft or accidental mix-ups do happen. Keep those items on your person or at your feet, not in a space that’s shared and out of reach.
Now, regarding the premium economy cabin—it’s often a difficult cabin to manage. It tends to include two very distinct types of passengers: those who paid just enough extra for more comfort but feel like they were promised a business-class experience (and are disappointed when it falls short), and frequent flyers who were hoping for an upgrade and are visibly frustrated when it doesn’t come through. I’ve seen elite customers in this cabin deliberately board through the business class door—even when it’s not their boarding group or the designated path. One recently did so early in the boarding process, clearly not checking to see if business was full, but rather walking through with quiet hostility and a visible sense of disdain. It was clear he was trying to send a message: he should have been seated up front. That kind of energy sets a very difficult tone for the flight. The way the blogger described what happened feels, to me, like he came on with that energy.
I’m not going to lie—after flying more flights to the U.S. than I can count, I’ve noticed a very distinct sense of entitlement among passengers on those routes that I rarely, if ever, encounter when flying to or from other countries. It’s a dynamic that makes already challenging crew interactions even more complicated. Social media has only amplified that behavior—turning every small conflict into a potential viral moment rather than something that could be solved quietly and respectfully.
That said, in the interest of fairness: I’ve flown with all the major U.S. carriers, including American, and the experiences have been mixed—as they often are across the industry. One thing I have noticed is that compared to U.S. domestic crew, some international crews (yes, even my own colleagues) can be surprisingly soft-skills challenged. Warmth, empathy, and clear communication don’t always come easily in cross-cultural service. It goes both ways.
This situation is unfortunate all around. But there’s a broader context here: tensions are high, space is limited, and emotions run hot. At the end of the day, crew are trying to do their jobs safely, professionally, and within the constraints we’re given. A little understanding goes a long way.
Fire him
If it has crew tags on it that's all the more reason to move that oversized bag out of the passenger's designated premium economy overhead bin. Crew are there to serve the customers, not the other way around. JT was well within his rights to insist on having his own bag stowed near him, especially if it contained valuables or material he wanted to access during the flight. The fact that the FA has the...
If it has crew tags on it that's all the more reason to move that oversized bag out of the passenger's designated premium economy overhead bin. Crew are there to serve the customers, not the other way around. JT was well within his rights to insist on having his own bag stowed near him, especially if it contained valuables or material he wanted to access during the flight. The fact that the FA has the gall to post a public response shows how arrogant he is and that he views himself above or equal to passengers, and doesn't know his place. He needs to learn that his job is to serve and accommodate the customers as best as reasonably possible.
Y'all are nuts. This never would have happened if JT wasn't a giant DYKWIA a**hole. In fact, he himself may not have acted that way if he didn't have the wide reach by virtue of being a travel blogger.
Ben - on what is your characterization of JT being a "nice guy" based on?
haha found the entitled FA
LOL - not an FA. Though I do hold a private pilot cert with instrument rating and slept in a Holiday Inn express last night, so if any assistance is needed on the flight deck I'm in 33E.
Seriously though, full unedited audio or it didn't happen. In this particular instance, the FA's version of events rings more true (even if there is some whitewashing of what happened).
eh frankly i guess it's a thing for AA to sort out; as a frequent TATL and particularly LHR flyer, I went ahead and took the liberty of making AA aware of my concerns that if I book with AA, I may be subjected to Scott Shoup. i'm no CK, just a lowly EP, but hey maybe AA will get more of these reports about Scott :)
JT is one of the better bloggers out there, but if you read through comments posted here and elsewhere, there does appear to be some disagreements to that assertion.
I have followed JT’s work for many years and exchanged pleasant comments and messages with him on various platforms. What I don’t understand is why he, or any frequent flyer, would think it is a good idea to continue to argue their case with not one but multiple FAs? Even when you perceive that you are right and they are wrong, you’re unfortunately very unlikely to come out favorably.
That is so true and it tells more about the blogger’s state of mind and attitude, despite Ben and other commenters claiming he is a nice guy. He might be a nice guy towards people he knows but it doesn’t mean he cannot have an attitude towards people he doesn’t know. I am inclined to not believe a nice guy would just remove another person’s belonging before talking to that person (not just asking to...
That is so true and it tells more about the blogger’s state of mind and attitude, despite Ben and other commenters claiming he is a nice guy. He might be a nice guy towards people he knows but it doesn’t mean he cannot have an attitude towards people he doesn’t know. I am inclined to not believe a nice guy would just remove another person’s belonging before talking to that person (not just asking to the air).
The other thing in the article I found incredulous is that he claimed he asked the cabin and no one claimed the bag. A PE cabin got to be 3 or 4 rows deep with 8 or 9 seats across and with the chaos during boarding he would have to be yelling before “everyone” can hear him. This does not add up.
Scott Shoup (the insolent FA) obvs should be fired but it's also tough to imagine a role that he should be allowed to have in any industry
Security Guard?
I appreciate this opportunity to plan ahead, in case this ever happens to me. If it does, I will:
1. not touch another's bag
2. sit down with my bag on my lap
3. do nothing. crew will eventually attend and I can then confront them on the anonymous bag, ask about compliance with the "Premium Economy Only" sign in the bin, etc.
I absolutely agree with 2 things that occurred here
1) JT should not have moved the bag, he should have sought a crew member for assistance. This is not difficult to do, even during the boarding process.
2) The F/A should have reverted to their training in de-escalation. This got WAY out of hand and the F/A is supposed to be the authority figure and handle this in a way that would ensure a positive outcome for all parties concerned.
Clearly that did not happen.
You miss the key point: it wasn't just one flight attendant, it was three or four. If a passenger persists in a manner that pulls three or four flight attendants into the mix, the passenger has the burden of proof to show they were not the problem. In my decades of flying, the vast majority of incidents that I've personally witnessed stem from the passenger being in the wrong and not the flight attendant(s).
This all just seems odd and unnecessary. I would add that a number of years ago I had an FA that appeared to be commuting remove my bag, hold it up, and ask whose it was. She then proceeded to say it would be checked because she needed space for their bag. I indicated there was medical equipment inside and she very unceremoniously shoved it back into the bin and then repeated this was another...
This all just seems odd and unnecessary. I would add that a number of years ago I had an FA that appeared to be commuting remove my bag, hold it up, and ask whose it was. She then proceeded to say it would be checked because she needed space for their bag. I indicated there was medical equipment inside and she very unceremoniously shoved it back into the bin and then repeated this was another bag. Another FA put a stop to it and they found a bin for it in F. It seemed like she was bound and determined that her bag would be near her. Then she asked the lead FA if they could move someone because she didn't want a middle seat. She seemed like a real entitled piece of work, but not the strangest thing I've seen in the skies.
She sounds like an arrogant pig.
I’ve seen so many flight attendants in the US go on power trips, on AA, UA and other airlines, and so many instances of passengers threatened with deplaning or actually being forced to deplane - just because the flight attendant wanted to show he or she can do that. None of these situations had anything to do with safety.
I haven’t seen this attitude on airlines in Europe or Asia. It seems to be a...
I’ve seen so many flight attendants in the US go on power trips, on AA, UA and other airlines, and so many instances of passengers threatened with deplaning or actually being forced to deplane - just because the flight attendant wanted to show he or she can do that. None of these situations had anything to do with safety.
I haven’t seen this attitude on airlines in Europe or Asia. It seems to be a systemic problem in the US, where flight attendants are often combative, feel entitled and get away with no consequences.
"consequences" is the key. There's no actual purser on flights in USA.
In my decades of flying, I've never seen a flight attendant go on a power trip. I've seen some that have been less than diplomatic. But, never on a power trip. Both US carriers and non-US carriers. When I see comments such as yours, I sense a person having a chip on their shoulder. Especially comments to the effect of "only US-based flight attendants and never ever a non-US based flight attendant."
Well they're basically semi law enforcement in a plane. And I think they need to have a iron fist given how crappy passengers have been for the last 10 years. Nurses are the same. I've had nothing but good experience with caring nurses and I've been tended to by probably a hundred in my life but I also see when nurses flip the switch on a drugged craze patient off the streets.
They're all doing...
Well they're basically semi law enforcement in a plane. And I think they need to have a iron fist given how crappy passengers have been for the last 10 years. Nurses are the same. I've had nothing but good experience with caring nurses and I've been tended to by probably a hundred in my life but I also see when nurses flip the switch on a drugged craze patient off the streets.
They're all doing a thankless job and we contribute to it because we think they are too harsh...until we individually need them.
"semi law enforcement" - perceptive comment highlighting the difference between US and Europe FAs.
In the US, law enforcement use guns at the slightest provocation, in most of Europe they avoid using guns except in extremis.
My first thought on reading the initial post was that Crew Bags usually have tags on them. Regardless, it was brazen to take somebody's bag and remove it. Also, I believe the initial piece states that the bag was too big to fit in the economy cabin. Does this mean the bag got set in a seat or tossed on the floor. It sounds like the issue arose because a bag was not stowed. Frankly,...
My first thought on reading the initial post was that Crew Bags usually have tags on them. Regardless, it was brazen to take somebody's bag and remove it. Also, I believe the initial piece states that the bag was too big to fit in the economy cabin. Does this mean the bag got set in a seat or tossed on the floor. It sounds like the issue arose because a bag was not stowed. Frankly, I have often had to store bag further back because I like to fly in row one, and the compartment is often full. If I put my luggage someplace and found it later sitting the aisle, I would not be happy. I assume most people would feel this way. When JT was confronted with the issue, he was rude, and asked whether the bins were "only for Premium Economy" and he further insisted that he was entitled keep his bag where it was. (ie. "He can selfishly displace another bag and substitute his own.") It makes you sort of wonder if he then turned on the audio so he could create a confrontation and record it for his blog. There is no question in my mind that removing somebodies bag from the overhead bin and then inserting your own is wrong. It is OK to ask a flight attendant about a baggage issue, but it is not OK to displace somebody else's bag and insert your own. JT is clearly in the wrong.
How could JT consult the bag owner when he asked in the premium economy section who the bag belonged to and no one took ownership? What was he supposed to do? Get on the PA and ask whose bag?
The crew person could have kept their bag in a galley area and place it in the first/Business class section once everyone for that section had boarded as I have seen many crew do.
It...
How could JT consult the bag owner when he asked in the premium economy section who the bag belonged to and no one took ownership? What was he supposed to do? Get on the PA and ask whose bag?
The crew person could have kept their bag in a galley area and place it in the first/Business class section once everyone for that section had boarded as I have seen many crew do.
It seems far fetched that a seasoned traveller would state they would not obey crew instructions. I don't buy those statements for a minute.
I'm sympathetic in this respect.
There's no chance I'm the only person that's had some annoying person yell loudly in the cabin "Hey, whose bag is this?" making it clear they think whoever it belongs to is in the wrong and that their bag belongs there.
There are plenty of reasons a passenger was not around to loudly yell back "it's mine.
1. the bathroom. I've boarded a flight and used the...
I'm sympathetic in this respect.
There's no chance I'm the only person that's had some annoying person yell loudly in the cabin "Hey, whose bag is this?" making it clear they think whoever it belongs to is in the wrong and that their bag belongs there.
There are plenty of reasons a passenger was not around to loudly yell back "it's mine.
1. the bathroom. I've boarded a flight and used the bathroom before takeoff
2. A conversation with their friend farther back in the plane.
3. It's not supposed to be the case, but the passenger may not be on board yet and their spouse/friend carried it on to get in the overhead.
There any number of reasons. Any normal passenger (not FA, passenger) would be properly annoyed to come back to their seat and, if they're lucky, notice their bag has been moved (assuming it isn't closed in their absence).
I agree that the FA overreacted by their bag moving, but it's honestly rude that Mr Genter just decided his bag took precedence. By his own admission, he thought it belonged to another passenger (not the FA) and he moved another passenger's bag based on a rather arrogant assumption.
That's where my problem is, if Mr Genter was correct that it he didn't know it belonged to a crew member, he's an asshole by moving the bag to a different cabin when the owner of the bag wasn't there momentarily. For all he knew, an FA could've told a passenger to put their bag there.
But I suspect he did know that it was an FA bag (they're incredibly obvious, especially for a seasoned traveler) and is lying about that.
The FA clearly overreacted but Mr Genter is an asshole in either scenario. I'd be plenty annoyed coming back from a perfectly legal/ok trip to the restroom or to see my kids in another cabin only to see someone moved my bag due to an assumption about cabin privilege. Again, having no idea whether a fellow passenger was directed to place it in that bin.
There's also the fact that sometimes economy pax /will/ stuff a bag further up (or business pax will stuff their bag further back - I've had to do that on regional jets more than once because of the lack of a usable bin on one side).
Under no circumstances should he be moving bags unless it's to shift it slightly to fit his bag. If he had an urgent need for his bag to be close (carrying cards and currency in it is a BS excuse and frankly dumb) then he should've asked an attendant to accommodate his request.
Based on the information on this post, it seems like that FA is the problem
JT stated that he recorded the exchange, shared it with land-based AA staff, and was treated very well as a result. If true, that leads me to believe that JT's version of the situation is much more accurate than the flight attendant's version.
Or they knew who he was, which I am sure he made clear and they wanted him to just shut up and go away, which he proceeded not to do, instead, pursuing a vendetta against this flight attendant
At least the FA (presumably) going public without AA’s authorization gives the airline cause to fire him now.
JT is basically like Josh Cahill...lets create a fake controversy that is entirely the blogger's own fault and then play the victim card and blog about it.
Pathetic.
Is that based upon this incident, or JT's other posts? I have the opposite impression, based upon his body of writing. Decent blogger. To me this incident is a standaout, probably highlighting a tired traveller and a cranky American FA.
just based on this incident. honestly i don't follow too much of his other stuff, there are only so many travel blogs i can read a day...perhaps i should have clarified that better, and i'll admit the Cahill comparison was a bit of a low blow, since he is a uniquely douchey human.
I don't know who this JT is, but Josh Cahill is the absolute worst vlogger and a drama queen.
It takes a lot to 'beat' Cahill's antics. Or even to 'equal' him. I don't think JT is quite there yet. Because Cahill is such an uber POS.
It takes two to tango, but after reading the FA response I'll take JT's side on this one. FA seems to be a right fighter.
First he did not identify himself with full name and any information. We can all pretend to be that flight attendant and post a response. Second I don't think American Airlines will suggest any F/A to post a response. It is now a full blown PR crisis with American, which really had a terrible week with the breakdown of their latest "premium" AA 787-9 and now a big fight with a good guy and reputable...
First he did not identify himself with full name and any information. We can all pretend to be that flight attendant and post a response. Second I don't think American Airlines will suggest any F/A to post a response. It is now a full blown PR crisis with American, which really had a terrible week with the breakdown of their latest "premium" AA 787-9 and now a big fight with a good guy and reputable blogger. He is not one of the more controversial bloggers, who are known to be provocative.
I actually think if this is the male F/A, who has posted the comment, he might be disciplined by AA now. He is putting his career on the line.
Now it is only time before we can hear the full audio, which will surely make AA look bad. AA PR department is possibly calling the blogger now and trying to ask him not to release the audio.
It's those situations that escalation leads to a certain result (they never see each other again) and deescalation leads to uncertainty. Many people choose to escalate. You see it elsewhere, in relationships and politics.
I think moving another's bag without consent is a tripwire. The issue isn't whether the bag "should" be moved, it's who should move it. JT was absolutely right to expect the incorrect bag in the incorrect place to be resolved in his favour. But he blew all chances of goodwill by doing it himself. If there are signs saying this bin space is reserved for PE pax, he can calmly push back when crew says...
I think moving another's bag without consent is a tripwire. The issue isn't whether the bag "should" be moved, it's who should move it. JT was absolutely right to expect the incorrect bag in the incorrect place to be resolved in his favour. But he blew all chances of goodwill by doing it himself. If there are signs saying this bin space is reserved for PE pax, he can calmly push back when crew says "bins are shared space, SIR". But once he moved another's bag he screwed his chances and when it turned out to be crew, the natural indignation of the bag's owner was amplified to 11.
Now, the FA. He has a responsibility to kknow about the sticker in the bin that says "PE pax only" and to handle all matters accordingly, including NOT PUTTING his bag in there. So the FA totally sucks and deserves the piling on.
Since they both suck, what's the answer? Oops, it's right there in Ben's piece, over and over. DEESCALATION. Someone offends you? Turn the other cheek. Someone trespasses on your precious territory? Ask the official nicely to evict them. Passenger is defiant? Inhale, exhale, three times. Be a pro, not an American Flight Attendant. (Oops, did I imply that it's one or the other?)
People don't realize passengers don't have the right to enforce rules or rights themselves on an airplane. That is what the crew is there for. Otherwise it would be chaos. You board and someone is on your assigned seat? You don't have the right to lay your hands on them and pull them out of there. Your seatmate is listening to amplified music without headphones? You don't have the right to remove the device from...
People don't realize passengers don't have the right to enforce rules or rights themselves on an airplane. That is what the crew is there for. Otherwise it would be chaos. You board and someone is on your assigned seat? You don't have the right to lay your hands on them and pull them out of there. Your seatmate is listening to amplified music without headphones? You don't have the right to remove the device from their hands. A non-PE pasenger places their luggage on a PE reserved bin? You the PE passenger don't have the right to remove it. Always bring in the crew.
It sure seems like a lot of FAs came from your Facebook group to pester these comments.
A small word: you're the help. You have no education. You're replaceable by 10,000 other trashy people like you, or by nobody. It makes no difference.
You're nothing. We all hate you.
There's definitely some level of suspiciousness.
JT should be releasing the transcript of his own words instead of claiming what they were. It's odd he wouldn't do that if he was so clearly in the right.
Or even better just release the full unedited audio and let people make the conclusions themselves.
The problem here is clear. The FA approached this situation with a sense of entitlement by pointing out the fact that it was a crew bag... as if that makes any difference. The mindset from the very beginning is completely backwards.
If the blogger has the audio he says he does wouldn’t he have uploaded it already?
Also, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an FA’s luggage that didn’t have *multiple* crew tags on it.
JT is full of $hit. This is why AA is the worst mainline in the US.
There's one way to settle this. If JT publicly released the full, unedited audio, we could hear the entire interaction. While we won't get the visuals, the tone and volume can convey a lot. If JT's transcripts are accurate, the F/As were probably menacing and combative, while he probably wasn't. Oh, and it'll also tell whether the F/A lied in his VFTW comment.
I wasn't there so I can't make a definite whose right and wrong but if I had to make a bet I'd take that flight attendant's word. And yes some flight attendants are on a power trip but I in the thousands of flights since 1997 have never had this kind of situation, even though I don't take sh%t. I just know what battles I will never win. Same goes for arguing with a flight attendant to lazy to do pre departure beverages.
@George Romey,
The FA should put their bag in a bin that has space after paying pax had boarded. The FA had enough time to tell the pax that he could place his bag in the first/business cabin. Why didn't the FA just move their own bag there and deescalated the issue? I believe the pax. Something is just not right with the FA's account.
Where do you propose they store their luggage while they wait for all passenger bags to be loaded?
In the very same First/Business Class bin that the FA told the pax he could place his bag.
Only one way to judge for ourselves. Let’s hear the recording.
A couple years ago, I had a guy move my bag from "his" overhead bin to another one. Impolite if nothing else. The guy was a problem child on the flight. I side with the flight attendant on this one.
Bloggers got blog to get eyes on their credit card referral links one way or another…
He was told he needed to move his stuff and didn't. I'm sure it started polite(ish) but if you're still digging in after 3-5 crew members are telling you otherwise, you're the a**hole and should be removed.
Nice guys have off days too.
Really hard to pick a side between a flight attendant and blogger. One of those situations where you hope they both lose.
I mean, the average AA flight attendant isn't known for their amazing customer service...
He said, in response to reading a blog post written by a blogger.
Says the dude reading a blog…