A few days ago, we saw the tragic crash of an Air India Dreamliner, as the plane struggled to gain altitude after takeoff. As of now, there are a lot more questions than answers, and it’s too soon to know what caused this. However, contextually we’re starting to get more clues as to what may have happened, and it points to a nightmare scenario (not that there’s any sort of crash of this magnitude that isn’t horrifying).
In this post:
Air India Boeing 787 lost power, causing RAT deployment
In a post yesterday, I shared a video by popular YouTuber Captain Steeeve (who is a Boeing 777 captain), analyzing what we know about the accident based on the evidence so far. I shared the video because it provided a useful explanation of the concept of lift vs. thrust on a wide body jet.
However, as I mentioned at the time, I think he was drawing too many conclusions with the scenarios he shared. For example, he suggested that one of the pilots may have accidentally retracted the flaps rather than the landing gear. So there’s now an interesting update, as he has already changed his theory within 24 hours, completely eliminating the previous scenario. This also seems more grounded in what we actually know, vs. speculating.
Within hours of the crash, we saw a version of the below video, showing the doomed Dreamliner taking off, and eventually crashing into the ground. What has changed is that within the past 24 hours, a higher definition version of this video has been released, since the first version was basically a video of the video. This version has much better picture and sound quality.
Based on this video, it seems certain that the ram air turbine (RAT) was deployed after takeoff. For context, below is a demonstrator video of a RAT on this exact type of aircraft, demonstrating both how it looks and sounds.
What’s the purpose of the RAT? It’s a small propellor that deploys underneath the fuselage, to provide emergency electrical power when power is lost. Obviously if you’re at a high altitude, this can save an aircraft, but when you’re just hundreds of feet off the ground, that won’t help you all that much.
In an updated video, Captain Steeeve provides a new analysis based on that detail. To be clear, he doesn’t speculate as to what caused the accident, but rather confirms that it’s certain that the RAT was deployed, and he bases this on three details:
- We can see the RAT — it’s the small black thing underneath the fuselage, and you can also see the RAT “door” open
- We can hear the RAT — it sounds like a propellor, rather than your typical 787 engines
- The sole survivor of the crash explained the lights flickered after takeoff, which is consistent with a RAT deployment
As Captain Steeeve explains, the RAT deploys when an aircraft has an electrical failure, a hydraulic failure, or a dual engine failure.
A separate but unrelated detail that’s pointed out is that the plane took off on a roughly 11,500-foot runway, and the plane seemingly used almost the entire runway. While it was a hot day and the plane had close to a full load, it’s not normal for a 787 to use that much runway.
The Aviation Herald also reports that preliminary findings by the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) suggest that a bird strike has been ruled out (as no bird carcasses were found), and that aircraft loading was routine, so a load problem is unlikely.
This scenario is any pilot’s worst nightmare
It goes without saying that any sort of fatal aviation accident is terrible. But this kind of an accident is a special kind of terrible. To think that these pilots were accelerating down the runway expecting to climb up to their cruising altitude, only to suddenly no longer be able to climb.
This also happened in such a short timeframe. Presumably they didn’t notice any issues before reaching their “V1” speed on the takeoff roll, or else they would’ve rejected the takeoff. So somewhere in the seconds between that and when the plane started sinking, something went very wrong.
We’ll have to wait for the results of the investigation to determine why the RAT deployed, and why the plane suddenly lost power. A dual engine failure on takeoff without a bird strike is exceptionally rare.
I’m sure black box details will be released soon, which will hopefully provide more clues about what happened. I would imagine both the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder will be very revealing.
Bottom line
Higher quality video footage has been released of the Air India Boeing 787 crash in Ahmedabad, and it makes it pretty clear that the ram air turbine (RAT) deployed shortly before the crash. You can see it, you can hear it, and it’s consistent with the account of the sole survivor.
The big question is why the 787 would lose power within moments of becoming airborne, since that’s not something that’s ever supposed to happen, especially with no signs of a bird strike…
What do you make of this Air India Boeing 787 RAT discovery?
I READ THAT IN 2013 AN AIRLINE OR THE FAA ACTUALLY REQUIRED ALL AIRCRAFT THAT HAD THE GENERAL ELECTRIC GEnx, a HIGH-EFFICIENCY ENGINES BE REPLACED OR REPAIRED. ALTHOUGH THIS WAS BASED ON ANOTHER BOEING THAT HAD ICE THE DISLODGED OFF THE TURBINES & INTO THE ENGINES CAUSING BOTH ENGINES TO FAIL SIMULTANEOUSLY. JUST CURIOUS IF YOU KNOW ABOUT THESE ENGINES & IF THIS AIRCRAFT FALLS WITHIN THE TIMEFRAME OF THIS PREVIOUS DOUBLE ENGINE FAILURE INCIDENT?
FADEC failure?
>This version has much better picture and sound quality.
I don't think it's "enhanced", I think it's been entirely replaced.
I wonder if this is reminiscent of the Kegworth air crash in the UK, where a single engine failure on a B737 was compounded by pilot error when they shut down the wrong engine. (I am not a pilot.)
You don't take any action on engine failure till you're above 3,000ft
Question to the informed: One of the theory for dual engine failure is contaminated fuel. But, if that was the case, wouldn’t other flights (domestic or international) also suffer/struggle? Also, this flight took off around ~2pm. Many flights would have departed before this one.
When CX780 happened, other flights that departed the same airport around the same timeframe did not have a similar dual engine failure.
While the RAT looks like a propellor, it is more accurate to call it a wind turbine (or a windmill if you wish to use a layman’s term), since it doesn’t provide propulsion but rather is driven by airflow.
I wonder whether a hydraulic failure would also fit the evidence, in particular:
• The landing gear appearing to be in transit with bogies pivoted to leading edge down but not retracting;
• The flaps...
While the RAT looks like a propellor, it is more accurate to call it a wind turbine (or a windmill if you wish to use a layman’s term), since it doesn’t provide propulsion but rather is driven by airflow.
I wonder whether a hydraulic failure would also fit the evidence, in particular:
• The landing gear appearing to be in transit with bogies pivoted to leading edge down but not retracting;
• The flaps appearing to be at least partially retracted - I say partially because in the video it appears you can see the leading edge of the flaps not fully flush with the wing which could indicate they weren’t fully retracted;
• The flight path being similar to other events where an aircraft has become airborne with flaps not at the correct setting for take-off but engines still delivering thrust;
• The RAT being deployed as it would in the event of a hydraulic failure.
*If* it is a hydraulic failure serious enough to cause the retraction of flaps at a critical phase of flight, that will be quite concerning, and it will be important to understand what led to such a single point-of-failure event.
While I follow Cpt Steve's channel I think he's slipping close to making some very definite-sounding statements based on a highly pixelated image. Note, I don't think this is for traffic or in any way self serving, just an easy "drift" in which to find oneself. Further, in his prior videos he's indicated that even the higher quality film is not at a resolution that allows for firm determination of the trailing edge flaps' position....
While I follow Cpt Steve's channel I think he's slipping close to making some very definite-sounding statements based on a highly pixelated image. Note, I don't think this is for traffic or in any way self serving, just an easy "drift" in which to find oneself. Further, in his prior videos he's indicated that even the higher quality film is not at a resolution that allows for firm determination of the trailing edge flaps' position. If it's not possible to determine the position of a wing surface tens of feet in width I find it problematic to state definitively that an artifact represents proof of the RAT deployment. When the aircraft passes by at the start of the film in much better clarity, and in almost full side view, the RAT is not evident (yet).
This is not to say it didn't deploy, but there is a risk of over-focus on the RAT when other clear anomalies exist. Further, if the RAT was in response to a hydraulic failure the flaps would not self-retract (especially in less than 30s total flight time, even a massive leak would take longer).
There is also video of a passenger on this very plane earlier that day documenting that the IFE systems were inop, the air conditioning was apparently inop, etc. Anecdotal, but doesn't point to a healthy electrical system at face value.
Two still glaring questions remain in addition to the possible RAT deployment:
Takeoff run - it appears to be confirmed that the plane did taxi and U-turn in order to allow use of the full runway length. Why was almost two miles of runway needed to reach rotation? If an engine issue it should have become apparent that the aircraft was not accelerating as should have been expected and the roll abandoned.
Takeoff run alternate - if the crew actually did perform an intersection takeoff it may explain the late rotation, but also points to mis-configuration. Int takeoffs are often performed for expediency, suggesting a time consideration (hurried) and potential for incomplete checklists/configuration. (This is another issue I have with Cpt Steve's earlier video where he states that it's not possible to take off with an incomplete checklist - patently untrue, the on-screen checklists will alert the pilots but will NOT prevent their actions with the aircraft. Videos of just this type of late configuration by a crew while rolling down the runway are easy to find).
Essentially too many oddities about the entire sequence, and it's unfortunate that the media is promoting Youtubers' theories for clicks. Data recorders will reveal every second ultimately.
Bird strike. That airport is notorious for bird strikes—2nd highest in India. It probably happened over the open space just beyond the end of the runway or at the start of residential development. A flock of small birds, like pigeons, would not have shown up on the runway video. Bird remnants will likely be found in both engines.
No one has mentioned that the rat can be deployed by a pilot pressing and holding the rat switch.
I wasn't aware of this but it seems the RAT was deployed automatically as we can hear it whirring, but we cannot hear the engines. They definitely seemed to be totally cut off. It sounded like a prop plane whizzing by.
Man this looks pretty bad if confirm by the black boxes i have never seen a twin engine plane had both engines fail in takeoff.
Murphy said it's going to happen.
IF.... (big IF) it is confirmed that a complete shut down of both engines has happened (and is therefore possible), it throws into question all the premises of modern commercial aviation: As reliability and MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) increase, the need for more engines decreases, which is why no more quadri-jets are produced. "Double shut downs cannot happen, and the Titanic ws unsinkable". Expect many requests for their return
After the 2018 Lion Air crash, some US pilots were quick to question the Indonesian crew's skills, hinting a US crew would've avoided it. A hint of arrogance? But this was pre-MCAS details. Once the Ethiopian crash revealed MCAS's uncommanded nose-down, the focus shifted. As Capt Sully said, even experienced pilots would've struggled with an unknown system. Best to temper those initial judgments on pilot actions.
Captain Steeeve is a hack, speculating on crashes to profit off of clicks.
Are you new to YouTube or TikTok?
LOL... !
Something that most people don’t talk about is the position of the landing gear.
Yes it was down, but look at the angle of the gear just before the crash.
On a normal configuration the Dreamliner’s gear is tilting up (back wheels of the main landing gear touch the ground first). Only when the pilot selects gear up the gear’s wheels tilt down before being retracted. In the video from the roof top...
Something that most people don’t talk about is the position of the landing gear.
Yes it was down, but look at the angle of the gear just before the crash.
On a normal configuration the Dreamliner’s gear is tilting up (back wheels of the main landing gear touch the ground first). Only when the pilot selects gear up the gear’s wheels tilt down before being retracted. In the video from the roof top you can clearly see the wheels beeing parallel to the ground while the aircraft is pitched up. That means that either the pilot selected gear up and nothing happened but the tilting of the wheels or a complete hydraulic failure and the motor keeping the wheels to tilt up failed.
That simply confirms even further (and before we knew about the RAT) that this is a power issue
Old news. Juan Browne (Blancolirio) was discussing this two days ago, Steeve yesterday afternoon, etc.
I hear no difference in sounds. And are you saying that the AA flight landing lost power and causing the device to deploy?
That AA tail was a test flight before delivery.
Listen again. It's a very distinct sound, a whine and roar combination very different from a "normal" jet engine. High pitched.
Yup we all read the news Ben. Any pilots worst nightmare is likely working for AIR INDIA.
Hearing the RAT in the video vs hearing the engines is quite eerie. It seems they only shut down the airport for a few hours, were they able to quickly assess that fuel contamination was not an issue? If it wasn't a bird strike, nor a fuel quality issue, what could cause a dual engine failure given all the redundant systems onboard? The only thing I can think of that was somewhat similar was the...
Hearing the RAT in the video vs hearing the engines is quite eerie. It seems they only shut down the airport for a few hours, were they able to quickly assess that fuel contamination was not an issue? If it wasn't a bird strike, nor a fuel quality issue, what could cause a dual engine failure given all the redundant systems onboard? The only thing I can think of that was somewhat similar was the BA flight from China which had frozen fuel clogging to flow of fuel and they crash landed at LHR (obviously not an issue in 40 degree heat). This is such a baffling incident.
Presumably if a fuel contamination issue wouldn’t that have also affected other flights that day presuming the same fuel supplier (which I believe at most Indian airports is IndianOil)?
Since it's that time of the year again, I want to wish you, Ford, and your dad a Happy Father's Day. Thank you for sharing your family moments with us. I still remember your dad's first surprise birthday trip on an Emirates A380 a decade or so ago I think and even him getting a picture at the bar wearing the famous Emirates garb!
Oh FFS stop with the sucking up!
@Justin
What would I have to gain from sucking up especially to a blogger on the internet?! I don't look at it as sucking up. This is just my nature. I've been on this blog fore more than a decade, I always enjoy his content, including the stories he shares about his family.
If you're a father yourself, Happy Father's Day!
@Mike O:
It is just your nature indeed and there is much to be desired of such nature. Have you ever met Ben or his father?
It's just your nature, you say? What? To suck up like a teacher's pet? I suggest you change said nature...
A better natured person would have wished all the dads who posts here a happy father's day and not just the owner of the blog.
But hey, you do you...
Justin, seek help.
normal people don't behave like you and it's the reason the people close to you treat you like they do.
you sound sane.
Being human equals sucking up? You probably never operated a business or a website or did anything customer-facing. When day in and day out it's all transactional or non-interactive, someone being human can be very meaningful.
@ Mike O. -- You're very kind, thank you! And happy father's day to all the other dads! Have another fun trip with my dad coming up soon.
@Ben please tell us it's another surprise destination trip! Your dad's delight on each leg was very enjoyable to read about.
C%nt we all git along .... ?
....lol