When flying, I’m a window seat guy, for a variety of reasons (not the least of which is that looking out the window never gets old for me). In this post, I want to briefly talk about the etiquette regarding accessing the aisle when seated in a window seat (or middle, I suppose), because I’m curious how many OMAAT readers have a different take…
In this post:
Mutual obligations of aisle & window seat passengers
Some people prefer aisle seats because they want control of access to the aisle, and don’t want to be at someone else’s mercy. Others prefer window seats so that they won’t be disturbed by others trying to access the aisle.
Broadly speaking, I’d consider the correct etiquette regarding aisle access during the flight to be as follows:
- If I’m seated in the aisle seat, I’ll of course always get up if the person in the window seat needs to use the bathroom, without huffing or puffing
- If I’m seated in a window seat, I try not to consume too many liquids, so that I don’t have to go to the bathroom too often, and I also try to be respectful regarding the timing of using the bathroom, if at all possible; in other words, I’ll try to avoid going to the bathroom when the person in the aisle seat is sleeping, eating, etc.
Let me add one other note, which brings me to the main point of this post. If you’re seated in an aisle seat and someone needs to use the bathroom, you should stand up and let them out, rather than having them climb over you.
I’d argue that’s always the correct etiquette in economy, and it’s also the correct etiquette in a premium cabin, unless we’re talking about a very spacious layout (like a plane with certain types of flat bed seats). One of the reasons it’s important to get up is because it’s a bad practice to pull on the seat in front, and how else are you supposed to balance yourself while climbing over someone, short of giving them a face-to-face lap dance (which also seems like bad etiquette!)?
Why do some people not stand to let people out?
Yesterday I flew Avianca’s A320 business class from Miami to Bogota. In reality, this is almost like intra-Europe business class, in the sense that they’re economy seats with a bit more pitch, and extra width. Still, 33″ of pitch isn’t exactly a lot of space, and that’s especially true when people are reclined.
Anyway, I was in a window seat, and there was a guy in the aisle seat, but we had a bit of a language barrier (which I realized when I asked him if I could get up). So I then pointed to the bathroom, and he clearly understood what I meant. But rather than standing up, he instead maybe moved his knees an inch to the side, and motioned for me to climb over him (by pointing a finger along the floor, and sort of dragging it).
So I did that, and it was an adventure, especially since I’m unwilling to yank on the seat in front for support (so I instead tried to balance myself by pushing against the overhead console area). Go figure the second that I got up, the pilots were getting their bathroom break and breakfast service, while the crew was also blocking the economy aisle, performing service there. So the crew motioned for me to sit back down… which required going back exactly the way I exited into the aisle.
Then 10 minutes later, when the coast was clear, I finally went to the bathroom again, using exactly the same process. All-in-all, I had the pleasure of climbing over this guy, and being way too close for comfort, four times.
This isn’t the first time that something like this has happened to me. Though in the past, I’ve found that after the first time, people proactively get up, because they realize “oh, climbing over someone isn’t really practical.” But that wasn’t the case here.
I’m just puzzled by the psychology of this. Do some people just really hate getting up that much? Or do they just think that climbing over people is the correct way to do it? Have others found themselves in similar situations, with or without a language barrier?
What’s interesting to me is that I witnessed exactly the same thing with two other people in the cabin, who I don’t believe were traveling together (though who knows). Like, are airplane norms just different in Colombia (or Latin America at large), was this an isolated incident, or…?
Bottom line
To me, it seems like basic courtesy for a person seated in an aisle seat to stand up if someone seated next to them needs to use the lavatory. Every once in a while (including on my Avianca flight yesterday), people just don’t seem to think it’s necessary to get up, and want people to climb over them.
I don’t really get it, so I’m curious if I’m in the minority on that, or what. I could be wrong. I mean, a lot of people disagreed with me about putting shoes on lounge furniture, and I learned something there, so hopefully I can learn something here as well.
Where do you stand on the aisle seat passenger getting up when others need to use the lavatory? Under what circumstances is it not needed?
If I am in aisle seat I take the initiative to stand and say: this is easier for everybody. I then watch for the return and stand again, in anticipation of him /her returning to the seat. The middle seat passenger usually stays seated.
I've had the opposite happen where I was in the aisle seat and the person next to me shot up and climbed over me without asking or giving any indication he wanted to get out. I tried to stand to get out but he quickly motioned me to stay put. He was already mostly blocking me. When he returned I was already standing and I asked him to please not do it again. That I was happy to get up and make room to exit. He seemed quite offended by the request.
If you are all hooked in with headphones, seatbelt and blanket, it is usually just easier to move your legs to let the window seat passenger out.
Easier for who? That's not the question that was being asked.
Ben that closeness you dislike, I would advise not to go into a Hong Kong elevator. If it says 12 people allowance on the sign, expect 24.
You need to breathe out and hope your floor comes quick.
On airplanes it really comes down the aisle person's preference, and not everyone has the same idea of closeness.
In addition to those safety announcements, they should include what you prefer in getting up. Then everyone would be more educated about this.
While I agree in principle, we ought to keep in mind that “basic courtesy’ is not basic anymore in a time when leading politicians think it appropriate to use all kind of insults, but are terribly offended when someone does not say “thank you” for getting thrown under the bus.
Common courtesy starts from the top down and is currently being eradicated.
How does smelling girl's hair rate on your list of etiquette faux pas?
I believe your conception/behaviour comes to be gold standart for all passengers.
Honestly, I don't mind walking over people if they don't want to get up. It involves less social interaction on my part, and they've made the choice to deal my stumbling self and my butt in their face. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I kind of view it as a fun challenge!
Problem is making unwanted physical contact makes you liable for assault and battery.
Once they've motioned for you to climb over or made a motion to "allow" you to invade their space, it's going to be a tough standard to then claim that you've made "unwanted" contact as most judge/juries would assume a simple knowledge of the physics of 2 objects occupying the same point in space doesn't work. game on!
This is probably a cultural thing in (parts of) South America, as I've been travelling to Brazil 6-7 times in the last two years for business and I've encountered this exactly same behaviour. And I don't think I've seen it anywhere else quite like this. Maybe I'll ask the local the next time I'm there.
Same thing on my intra-LATAM flights but only when there’s no one in the middle. They’d usually shift 90 degrees into the aisle so it was easy
Personally I welcome any chance to get up and let the middle or window out of the row. Gives me a chance to stretch my legs and the flights not so tedious.
Lucky, I think this is more common than you think. I have experienced this as well when I had to climb over to get out to use the restroom because the passenger in the aisle seat refused to get up.
Besides that, I also experienced twice when passengers who were seated in the first row reclined all the way even during meal service and refused to recline back up until a flight attendant got...
Lucky, I think this is more common than you think. I have experienced this as well when I had to climb over to get out to use the restroom because the passenger in the aisle seat refused to get up.
Besides that, I also experienced twice when passengers who were seated in the first row reclined all the way even during meal service and refused to recline back up until a flight attendant got involved to assist.
Also, there was one passenger who was seated in first row emergency exit so had nothing in front of her and reclined all the way for the entire TPAC flight. Did not even want to recline back up during meal service until the FAs had to remind her. She had the audacity to recline again during meal service even after the FA assisted and had to be reminded again.
Refusing to get up is extremely common despite it being bad manners. Oh well. For the record I don’t find it problematic to grab onto the seat in front. It’s for your physical safety if you have to climb over somebody.
@Davis Polk Yeah. Very common, lol.
If the person in front isn’t reclined, I find it discourteous to grab the seat, unless it’s a safety issue. However, if the seat in front is reclined, all bets are off. My feeling is that discourtesy is met in kind.
When I am in domestic Economy I try to avoid window seats, but it's not always possible. I am 6'5" so it is difficult for me to access the aisle anyhow since I can't stand under the overhead console.
If I am forced to crawl over the person in the aisle seat, I pass them on my backside and do my best to blow a good ass toot.
So if others have bad manners, which might be an innocuous result of a cultural difference or misunderstanding, you take that as an excuse to willfully display bad manners. That’s the kind of shitty character you have.
I was flying UA LAX-LHR in the old school barca lounger seats. I was on the window and the whole cabin was reclined and asleep. I woke up over greenland and had to go the bathroom. The aisle guy woke up and looked me in the eye as I was hovering about 3 inches from his face with my face trying to escape.
Should have checked Grindr seatmap.
I agree 100%. I'm am aisle guy because I have the classic condition of older men of BPH related urinary frequency. To mitigate the need to ask others to move I always opt for the aisle if travelling alone or with my wife. I also always stand and let the window seat passenger access as they need to the restroom, having infinite sympathy for same. Common courtesy is dying in our country as we zone...
I agree 100%. I'm am aisle guy because I have the classic condition of older men of BPH related urinary frequency. To mitigate the need to ask others to move I always opt for the aisle if travelling alone or with my wife. I also always stand and let the window seat passenger access as they need to the restroom, having infinite sympathy for same. Common courtesy is dying in our country as we zone into our ear pod cell phone world. It's not unusual for someone sitting next to me to barely acknowledge my existence when boarding.
Barely acknowledging your existence is considered common courtesy in high-density metro areas. The motivation is that the excessive density is invasive and not acknowledging you is protective of your privacy.
Me too for being on the aisle @Bill, if I get stuck in economy. My wife typically is seated in the aisle across from me. I always stand up for the others in my row when they need to get up and out. I think my generation still generally does the same. Fortunately, I still travel frequently enough that I have status and a ton of miles to use and am typically up front, though...
Me too for being on the aisle @Bill, if I get stuck in economy. My wife typically is seated in the aisle across from me. I always stand up for the others in my row when they need to get up and out. I think my generation still generally does the same. Fortunately, I still travel frequently enough that I have status and a ton of miles to use and am typically up front, though still on the aisle. In domestic FC I'm still standing up, but it's for my wife who prefers the window there and I'd get a "whipping" if I didn't stand (LOL)
Actually when as and if I'm in economy, I'm happy when those in my row don't acknowledge me and have their earbuds in. It means no unwanted chit-chat with them and that I won't be subjected to the video or music sounds. I get my noise cancelling headset on my ears pretty fast myself.
I think that you're wrong about common courtesy dying in our country. I think it's long dead at this point. Unfortunately, I believe what's going on now is that common courtesy is being quickly replaced by open hostility to anyone else who might in any way restrict others from doing precisely what they want, even if it's by merely existing. It's a sorry state of affairs created by lamentable, pitiful, distressing, sorry excuses of humanity.
“It’s bad practice to pull the seat in front of you”
If only more than a handful of people understood this.
If I'm seated upright and I feel someone pulling the seat, I sometimes push the recline button to surprise the puller some extra.
As a female, I have had, on too many occasions to count, male passengers who have insisted that I climb over them to reach the loo ..... at which point I emphatically declined their offer. Some passengers then relent or my bladder is turned inside out waiting for the flight to land.
Pardon my mansplaining
Attempt 1: “Could you let me out please”
Every well bred gentleman says yes immediately.
Attempt 2: “There is no room for me to exit, could you please get up?”
Attempt 3: “No sir. Please get up.”
Attempt 4: ring call button
My apologies for not making it clear that the refusals have come after a polite request! And yes, it is mansplaining.
Well bred women do not use the term mansplaining
you used it first, my guy
pardon your mansplaining indeed...
I agree aisle passenger would be very nice to stand up. However, there's something missing here. It's the airlines' fault. Remember the days when there was plenty of room between rows and wider seats with wonderful lie-back pitch for all passengers. They even served everyone delicious food on dishes. Think of it. Why does everyone put up with the cramped and dangerous lack of space on airlines - period. Are people afraid to speak out?...
I agree aisle passenger would be very nice to stand up. However, there's something missing here. It's the airlines' fault. Remember the days when there was plenty of room between rows and wider seats with wonderful lie-back pitch for all passengers. They even served everyone delicious food on dishes. Think of it. Why does everyone put up with the cramped and dangerous lack of space on airlines - period. Are people afraid to speak out? Why are passengers just accepting this?
Yeah, this is a Latin American norm based on recent experience. Having spent the last month flying around the continent, this behaviour, as well as reclining seats during meal service (and being pissy about the FA asking them to bring their seat forward during meal service) is a really common trait. It smells of entitlement and self importance - I’ve never seen this in Australia, Asia or Europe on daylight flights that are only a...
Yeah, this is a Latin American norm based on recent experience. Having spent the last month flying around the continent, this behaviour, as well as reclining seats during meal service (and being pissy about the FA asking them to bring their seat forward during meal service) is a really common trait. It smells of entitlement and self importance - I’ve never seen this in Australia, Asia or Europe on daylight flights that are only a maximum of a few hours in length.
A few choice phrases in Spanish definitely helps illicit a change in behaviour though if spoken loudly enough .
No, it's not a "norm". It does occur with some frequency but not because of a "norm". And, no, it's not exclusive to Latin America.
I live in Miami, where I’m exposed to various Latin American cultures on a daily basis. There most certainly is a difference in courtesy. Yes, this isn’t exclusive to Latin America, but this type of thing is more prevalent.
I ABSOLUTELY am going to get up when I'm in the aisle. I definitely don't want someone climbing over me and possibly falling. If I were in the window, I think I might say something along the lines of "I'm very clumsy, can you please stand up so I don't fall on you?".
If you sit in a window seat, you should always abide by anybody else in that row asking you to open the window shades during the first minute of flight and the last 3-5 minutes. Do not be an a-hole. Seeing if there is a fire outside is important. Once a fat African American female refused to do so.
And the fact that the person was a large black woman is relevant why?
Because racism and sexism, most likely.
When I was a F/A, I almost exclusively flew Latin American routes working all three cabins and I can tell you that not standing up if you are in an aisle seat is very much a cultural thing that I had not seen much of in North America or Europe. Why ? Have not idea but it was then and is now "a thing".
Relevance of her being "fat"? And African American? I think that's known as "casual racism"....
US flight with its stupid and archaic no-aggregation-policy near the toilet. While the rest of the world is far more civilized and you'd not have to climb over some neckbeard twice in 10 minutes.
This was on an Avianca flight. Avianca is a Columbian flagged airline.
Its a flight with US destination. Nothing to do with airline.
In my opinion...
Window seat - close the windows when the lights are dimmed (in other words when others are wanting to sleep) or if the crew tells you to do so. If not it's up to your choice.
Aisle seat - get up when the window seat passenger wants to get outside, and hope that the aisle seat passenger is willing to get up as well.
Aisle seat - get up when your seatmate wants to get out.
"Window seat - close the windows when the lights are dimmed (in other words when others are wanting to sleep) "
Hmm, that's a tough one. I'm with you partially, but there are also times when people are trying to nap late into the morning and I'm not certainly closing my window to facilitate that (unless sunlight is directly coming near their face). Why bother grabbing a window seat if it needs to be closed?
@Redacted - agreed. I'll close my window in exactly two situations: (1) I am asked to do so by crew; or (2) I personally want it closed.
I'm not sure how is it considered in the US but in my region, an airplane cabin is considered a public/shared space. So I often get a sense that just because you sit on a window seat doesn't mean you can control it whatever way you want.
At least you wouldn't want to disturb others when they're busy sleeping, would you?
I'd say you're in the majority, Ben. If you choose the aisle seat, this is gonna happen, so just stand and let the other person past! It's neither difficult nor terribly inconvenient.
It's very simple. Would a woman climb over the aisle person if they didn't get up? Especially if they were in a skirt or a dress? Nope. Make them get up.
"All-in-all, I had the pleasure of climbing over this guy, and being way too close for comfort, four times."
@Ben, you're an stoic!
I have seen this frequently in flights within Latin America (not only Colombia). It also happened to me on a flight from CDG to SCL where I was the victim of a reversed situation with a Chinese passenger who simply "threw himself" over me every time he wanted to get to the aisle with no warning, gesture, or any kind of notice at all.
I am an aisle person at movies, concerts, plays and airplanes. In all cases I always stand up to let people in and out. I also try to recognize the people who are in my aisle so I can ensure I am standing up when they return from the bathroom or intermission.
I follow the same rules, it's the polite thing to do. However, if the aisle person is an unaccomodating tool too self important to get up, I float an air biscuit as I crawl over them to show my displeasure for their lack of manners. Seems fair.
No shortage of a holes in the world. If someone doesn't want to get up during flight reserve/buy a window. Otherwise, tough fecal matter.
When in domestic first I try for the bulkhead because I can get in and out without the other passenger getting up. I try to limit liquids and if possible use the lav when the aisle passenger gets up.
Those few times I'm in an aisle seat if the window seat person needs to get out I get up. It's not that difficult.
In general I agree with you about getting up when someone wants out, but I am understanding of people for whom it is difficult to stand up or sit down. This may appear obvious if you witnessed the mobility issue (e.g. you witnessed as they sat down slowly), but many disabilities are invisible.
Then they should sit window and stay seated. It’s a safety hazard having them on the plane at all, let alone in an aisle seat.
"Then they should sit window and stay seated. It’s a safety hazard having them on the plane at all, let alone in an aisle seat."
Not necessarily. For someone with significant mobility issues, shuffling over to the window seat may be much harder than it is for the rest of us.
"Invisible disabilities" is the latest catchphrase being bandied-about as an excuse for inconsiderate, selfish, or antisocial behaviour. If you walked onto the aircraft and found the seat under your own steam, you can stand up and step aside to let your seatmate past to the loo. If you're so incapacitated that this is beyond your comprehension, you need to travel with a guardian.
I've had only a couple of people who wanted me to climb over them so I could use the restroom while they were seated in the aisle and I always assumed it was because they had an injury that made it difficult or painful to stand up.
Why do some people not stand to let people out?
Sometimes because they're wheelchair bound, or have some other physical constraint or disability.
But it's almost always because they're assholes.
Willy gets it.
I’m middle aged but I still notice some older people expect me to climb over them in the airplane, theaters and stadiums.
I think in general most places I go away from home have a culture where less personal space is the norm. I’m not personally a fan of all the strangers touching me all the time when traveling, but it seems mostly unavoidable.
Norms about manners and personal space are different in various...
I’m middle aged but I still notice some older people expect me to climb over them in the airplane, theaters and stadiums.
I think in general most places I go away from home have a culture where less personal space is the norm. I’m not personally a fan of all the strangers touching me all the time when traveling, but it seems mostly unavoidable.
Norms about manners and personal space are different in various parts of the world, so I think this is a good question to ask! For example, some places kiss all kinds of people I wouldn’t and others don’t even shake hands. I sometimes find my own culture’s ways are optimal and other times suboptimal. I think it’s kind of fun to notice and learn. I also think it’s normal and somewhat understandable to be uncomfortable with unknown people and cultures.
I agree. I think there's a cultural aspect to it, although I would not say this is 100% of the picture. I prefer window seat, too, and I see more people on the aisle getting up for me in North America than in Asia.
Aisle seats come with acknowledgement of people needing to get up from middle and windows - anytime and as many times as they want. For most seats - yes get up. But for very wide exit rows - when at the aisle, if the arm rest can be lifted - I just swivel 90% and the perons can walk out. And don't be prude, if someone brushes against you on the way out - so...
Aisle seats come with acknowledgement of people needing to get up from middle and windows - anytime and as many times as they want. For most seats - yes get up. But for very wide exit rows - when at the aisle, if the arm rest can be lifted - I just swivel 90% and the perons can walk out. And don't be prude, if someone brushes against you on the way out - so be it. When two people pass in the aisle - both usually turn to seats and maybe their bottoms bump - and your crotch will be in the face of the person in the seat you are facing.
I always try for the aisle as I hate having to ask someone to get up for me so I can use the bathroom and hate the feeling of being trapped. Still, it sometimes happens, and I try to use the bathroom at an appropriate time.
On my last flight, I was in AA domestic First Class and the man on the aisle was asleep. I was tempted to try to climb over him...
I always try for the aisle as I hate having to ask someone to get up for me so I can use the bathroom and hate the feeling of being trapped. Still, it sometimes happens, and I try to use the bathroom at an appropriate time.
On my last flight, I was in AA domestic First Class and the man on the aisle was asleep. I was tempted to try to climb over him because I didn’t want to wake him and I had to go. I ended up just tapping his shoulder, and I apologized when he woke up but he understood and got up for me.
When I am in the aisle, I always respond with a smile and stand up when someone asks to use the restroom. It is good to stand up every hour or two on a plane anyway.
I generally agree with the analysis in this post (as someone who also prefers window seats). However, I usually don't mind climbing over someone if that's their preference; it's more uncomfortable for them than for me as far as I'm concerned, so if it's reasonably doable, I'll do it. In the end, though, this is all contextual. It may not be practical at all in a scenario with limited pitch, particularly if the aisle pax...
I generally agree with the analysis in this post (as someone who also prefers window seats). However, I usually don't mind climbing over someone if that's their preference; it's more uncomfortable for them than for me as far as I'm concerned, so if it's reasonably doable, I'll do it. In the end, though, this is all contextual. It may not be practical at all in a scenario with limited pitch, particularly if the aisle pax is tall, and in those scenarios it is indeed the obligation of the aisle guy to stand up.
I will add that I generally seize any opportunity to use the lav immediately after my seatmate does, so as to minimize disruption.
Ben - Maybe this guy wanted a lap dance at 32,000 feet. Language barrier or not, this common courtesy extends all over the world. Maybe he was just a jerk.
I'm amazed how often people in the aisle just motion me to climb over them. I won't do it. I politely refuse and insist they get up. 100% success rate.
Right?? I'm NOT very limber, and I've fallen and really hurt myself and I don't want to do that again. Just get up.
I don’t even climb over my husband! Neither of us are above average size and still it is difficult. I do not touch the seat in front of us so I use the back of his seat for leverage.
You've traveled much more than me, but for me that is just consistent with cultural norms in that area of the world. You are going to have people with different experiences and personal preferences, but for example if you travel by crowded bus or train in that culture, you're going to see someone similar. At least those are my observations.
I almost got into an altercation when a fully grown man tried to climb over me (I was aisle) in domestic first. You are 100% correct Lucky. Bonus points for etiquette of not grabbing seat in front of you. This article makes me enjoy my current week of no flying.
if someone made me climb over them to access the bathroom, i wouldn't mind or worry about accidentally bumping into their knees, legs, feet, etc. it comes with the territory if your unwilling to move or stand up.
“Manners maketh man”.
However Michael, I’m with you on this point.
If someone is so ignorant as to make it difficult for one to pass, then I could also display mine by following your example.
If I have the aisle seat, I get up if someone from middle or window seat needs to go to the rest room. Or just the aisle, to get something from the overhead storage. If it is for the latter, I also ask them whether I can get them their backpack/purse/whatever.
If I have the window seat, I expect the other person gets up for me as well.
I haven't been in the middle seat...
If I have the aisle seat, I get up if someone from middle or window seat needs to go to the rest room. Or just the aisle, to get something from the overhead storage. If it is for the latter, I also ask them whether I can get them their backpack/purse/whatever.
If I have the window seat, I expect the other person gets up for me as well.
I haven't been in the middle seat for ages, but I would get up / expect someone to get up as well.
I think that's just the polite way of traveling.
Now I have to find out what the comments on the shoes in the lounge are.