Usually I’m in the “snitches get stitches” camp, but I’m curious to hear if/when others would report things like this…
In this post:
The flight attendant behavior I observed on a recent flight
The airline industry at large has an unwavering commitment to safety. That’s important, because flying starts getting unsafe when you cut into safety margins, and allow employees responsible for safety to break rules or cut corners, especially when it’s a pattern of behavior.
Along those lines, while it might sound minor, I witnessed something interesting during a recent flight on a major US airline. I was seated in first class, with a direct view of the flight attendant jump seat. On both the climb out and descent, the flight attendant had AirPods in.
Of course I don’t know what this flight attendant was listening to (music, a book, etc.), but either way, that’s certainly not allowed, and it of course raises serious safety concerns. Takeoff and landing are among the most critical phases of flight, and it’s important that flight attendants know what’s going on, and can hear all chimes. The flight attendant also had a questionable pin and a uniform piece that definitely wasn’t compliant, but I’m less concerned about that, because it doesn’t impact safety.
Since the start of the pandemic, we’ve seen a significant reduction in terms of industry seniority, both for pilots and flight attendants (due to the number of people who ended up retiring and leaving the industry).
I don’t want to generalize too much, but the younger and more junior flight attendants that have made their way into the industry can be a mixed bag. Sometimes they’re friendly and a bit more energetic than their senior colleagues, but other times, they have less of a work ethic, and also seem to more consistently break rules.
Like, over my past 10 flights, I’ve had two other noteworthy situations, both involving flight attendants who I assume are fairly junior. One was simply on a phone call during boarding, while another had headphones in. While I found both of those situations to be unprofessional, they didn’t pose a safety issue in the same way.
I’m not sure if I should report this behavior or not
Part of the issue with inflight service on many airlines is that there’s no direct supervisor onboard, there are no cameras to investigate things, and flight attendants don’t generally snitch on one another.
On the one hand, I think it’s silly to lodge a complaint over this, as it seems minor. On the other hand, my goal with doing so isn’t to get anything out of the airline, or to get the flight attendant in trouble. Rather, it’s just for this to be documented, in case it’s a repeated pattern. I’m sure the flight attendant would deny this happened if confronted by a manager, but the goal with lodging a complaint is to provide a data point in case this is a consistent issue that’s also reported by others.
The issue is that if passengers don’t report things like this, we’ll just see the frequency of stuff like this spread. After all, there’s no other way the airline will even know this is happening.
So I’m curious how y’all feel about something like this? I would think that flight attendants who follow the rules would be supportive of customers reporting their colleagues acting like this, since it’s awkward for them to otherwise turn in their colleague, or confront them.
Bottom line
On a recent flight, the lead flight attendant had headphones in for both the climb out and descent, the most critical phases of flights. This is obviously a violation of regulations.
Usually I’d just mind my own business, but I also feel like this is something I should probably report. It feels minor and petty, but my concern is that this is a repeated pattern of behavior, and to at least give a data point that can be documented. After all, if no one speaks up, these kinds of things will never be addressed.
What would you do in this situation? Would you mind your own business, or report it?
I took a different approach regarding a recent flight I had and where I thought the safety of my family could be jeopardised and can share the outcome of this.
We were on a flight from Colombo to Mumbai on Air India. Towards the end of the flight I took my daughter to the back galley for her to use the toilet. At this point I saw one attendant pouring whiskey into a paper cup...
I took a different approach regarding a recent flight I had and where I thought the safety of my family could be jeopardised and can share the outcome of this.
We were on a flight from Colombo to Mumbai on Air India. Towards the end of the flight I took my daughter to the back galley for her to use the toilet. At this point I saw one attendant pouring whiskey into a paper cup and handed it to another.
In normal circumstances this wouldn't raise any suspicion but the way they then put the cup down on the side and looked away from me made me think something was going on. Now I never saw them consume it but I was worried that they could have or in the past could have.
The seatbelt sign came on soon after and I had watched to see if anybody had been served any drinks but this wasn't the case.
On landing as we were disembarking I spoke to the cabin manager but was told that they would never do this and it was probably stock taking but after insisting I was worried about the safety of the passengers he said he would check after the passengers has disembarked.
Not convinced he was taking it seriously I then tried to report the incident in the terminal to which I was told that I would have to email Air India.
I then contacted their customer service department to which they said they would investigate. I had asked to be kept informed of the outcome of the case but have not heard anything since.
Safe to say, I won't fly Air India in any rush.
So, in Bens situation I would have mentioned it at the time to the crew and just explained your views along with a follow up email to customer services. Safety is paramount and a job is a job
One of the most important pieces of the 'safety puzzle' is: 'see something, say something'. Far too many incidents happened because people were afraid to speak up.
I understand and respect that you don't want to 'snitch', and I would follow that philosophy for all non-safety related things.
Ben, one is still waiting, with bated breath, to read if you have reported the FA for ignoring flight safety regulations?
One is wondering if the subject article was written in a smoke and mirrors vein?
Why not reporting this without mentioning on which flight it was? If you want the airline to be aware without the FA getting in trouble, that sounds the best way, no?
If you have a multi-flight booking, you could even quote the booking number, just so they see you're not randomly complaining.
Ben, I worked for an airline for 20+ years and many of the years were as a Flight Attendant base manager. I understand your hesitation as I'm never one to get "someone in trouble" either. That's not my M.O. and I think in this case, bringing it up to the FA wouldn't solve the issue. What concerns me is if there was someone from the FAA on the flight doing an anonymous ride, which they...
Ben, I worked for an airline for 20+ years and many of the years were as a Flight Attendant base manager. I understand your hesitation as I'm never one to get "someone in trouble" either. That's not my M.O. and I think in this case, bringing it up to the FA wouldn't solve the issue. What concerns me is if there was someone from the FAA on the flight doing an anonymous ride, which they were known to have done, this could potentially cause a situation for a big fine for the company and most likely some follow-up training with the FA group. Which actually is not bad, but you reporting it gives the company the opportunity to look at their processes and training and maybe address it with the team.
That flight attendant is responsible for your safety during the flight especially during takeoff, climb out & descent. For this person to not take their job so seriously demands a reprimand, re-training and/or punishment. I was a flight attendant (last century) & during these critical stages of flight, it was drummed into us to mentally rehearse our safety procedures. It may actually be your duty as a concerned pax to report this errant behaviour...
I fly my fair bit and if I have my nose slightly congested, I use nose spray before the flight - a few times I had ears pop so bad I couldn’t hear anything for days when I didn’t. But if I forget the spray, I put my EarPods in at take off and landing, even without any music or anything else playing. They are rather good at preserving the pressure within the ear, assisting...
I fly my fair bit and if I have my nose slightly congested, I use nose spray before the flight - a few times I had ears pop so bad I couldn’t hear anything for days when I didn’t. But if I forget the spray, I put my EarPods in at take off and landing, even without any music or anything else playing. They are rather good at preserving the pressure within the ear, assisting with pressure change (and you can still hear everything). So that might be one innocent explanation for you)
I had an incident on a bus traveling at 65+ mph in a construction zone and the driver was on the phone planning dinner. I wrote to the bus line suggesting they remind ALL drivers that there are safety actions that need to be observed. I didn't identify either the bus route nor the driver. I figured all drivers needed to get the message.
Safety is the issue here, not that Ben is overstepping his interest as a passenger or being a tattletale.
I think a normal person, perhaps not you, would be able to tell the difference between ear buds and a hearing aid. You sound like a school child, not Ben. Thank you, Ben, for bringing this issue to question.
I wouldnt report it. As headphones, especially apple ones can amplify sound if need be.
Why didn't you just talk to the flight attendant directly instead of snitching like you're in middle school? Maybe they weren't even listening to anything, could they have been hearing aids? Maybe forgot they were in and not on...just ask nicely instead of being a tattletell
Is it Ben’s job to manage flight attendants?
Yes
Yes @Connie approach the FA, call them out for unprofessional, unsafe behavior and watch what happens. That FA will go straight to the captain, claim they felt threatened and your rear end will get hauled off the plane. Don’t believe me? Try it yourself.
The flight attendant will confess to the captain that they were violating safety rules by wearing earpods during a critical phase of flight? I don't think so. That would definitely result in disciplinary action.
I'm a former British Airways flight attendant. I can confidently say that this situation would not happen in the UK and, if it did, colleagues would report it and not cover it up.
As a passenger, I absolutely would...
The flight attendant will confess to the captain that they were violating safety rules by wearing earpods during a critical phase of flight? I don't think so. That would definitely result in disciplinary action.
I'm a former British Airways flight attendant. I can confidently say that this situation would not happen in the UK and, if it did, colleagues would report it and not cover it up.
As a passenger, I absolutely would have spoken with his FA, expaining that my safety was their responsibility and the situation is compromising that.
Ask the airline and FA union in writing whether you should report it and post the response.
If they both say yes, report it. If not, discuss it here.
You just reported the individual without explicitly naming the individual. Airlines of course monitor your blog and it will not be difficult for an airline to identify the person and repercussions will follow. You should have sent a private email or addressed it with the individual directly. Yes, the individual needs to perform their job in a professional manner and on point with the values of the company. Although, you should not made a post...
You just reported the individual without explicitly naming the individual. Airlines of course monitor your blog and it will not be difficult for an airline to identify the person and repercussions will follow. You should have sent a private email or addressed it with the individual directly. Yes, the individual needs to perform their job in a professional manner and on point with the values of the company. Although, you should not made a post about this as it may hurt where the individuals next meal comes from in our society today.
Classic unacceptable thought-terminating cliche argument to not report anything ever.
(To be sure, the incident described herein shouldn't be reported)
If you can't do your job, you shouldn't have the job, especially when the safety of other human beings is on the line. You can get your meal from unemployment benefits or the soup kitchen.
Classic unacceptable thought-terminating cliche argument to not report anything ever.
(To be sure, the incident described herein shouldn't be reported)
If you can't do your job, you shouldn't have the job, especially when the safety of other human beings is on the line. You can get your meal from unemployment benefits or the soup kitchen.
The people reading this blog are Comms and PR people who don't communicate with on-the-ground operations unless necessary to achieve Comms and PR goals.
Never in my lifetime have I ever known a person who has had any legal training to make it so obvious that they know so little about the law!
No known legal beagle would ever be so inclined to post on a public forum such obviously false legal advice.
Give it up Arps …. you are well and truly outed as a fraudulent fantasist.
Flight attendants are thinking they are in “heaven” or “paradise” after aircraft is airborne they don’t care anybody
They think they are in employment with protected environment no one to question them such FA with that attitude and mentality should be kicked out
Air India
It is worth considering that AirPods now also serve as hearing aids. I have no idea what the flight attendant was using them for, but it is at least palatable they were being used to provide enhanced audio for a person with disabilities.
Ben -
I vote "Report It" - as a Captain for an airline you have definitely heard of, and likely flown on, I need to be able to communicate quickly with the flight attendants when unusual situations come up. There are enough challenges already to effective communication between the flight deck and the cabin - not limited to the fact that most is "over the phone" and completely non-verbal, and there can be significant cultural...
Ben -
I vote "Report It" - as a Captain for an airline you have definitely heard of, and likely flown on, I need to be able to communicate quickly with the flight attendants when unusual situations come up. There are enough challenges already to effective communication between the flight deck and the cabin - not limited to the fact that most is "over the phone" and completely non-verbal, and there can be significant cultural and generational differences between who is working in the front and in the back.
We don't need to add "I didn't hear the chime the first time" to the list. Having ear buds in, especially during the first and last part of the flight (when we as a crew likely have least time to respond and prepare) is dangerous, plane and simple.
And as to some posts suggesting it could be for a hearing deficiency or other accommodation: if this flight attendant has one, nothing will happen to him or her. It will be in the employee's HR file as an approved action. My money says it isn't.
Yes I would report it. Take off and landing are the most critical points of flying and flight attendants need to be alert and focused and ready. I was a flight attendant and this is definitely something that should be reported.
YES ! If I were a supervisor for inflight services I would absolutely want to know about this unacceptable behavior so that it may be addressed and corrected.
Wrong of so many levels.
Not sure if someone already posted this in the comments but the best course of action to take would be to write a "NASA report" or ASRS - aviation safety reporting system. You can google it or use this link: https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/ Basically it allows flight crew and even passengers to report safety violations or concerns- it's anonymous and no one gets in trouble. The goal is to document patterns to see if any trends emerge...
Not sure if someone already posted this in the comments but the best course of action to take would be to write a "NASA report" or ASRS - aviation safety reporting system. You can google it or use this link: https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/ Basically it allows flight crew and even passengers to report safety violations or concerns- it's anonymous and no one gets in trouble. The goal is to document patterns to see if any trends emerge for future focus, etc. As a pilot, I've filled out a few of these, even on myself, as it helps everyone in the end.
Excellent comment section. The usual nutty bars doing their thing. Just what I needed for airport reading. No notes.
I know you're talking about me and that's ridiculous. You grew up in NYC but moved out, which means you were a loser (you couldn't make it here).
I didn't grow up in NYC but I currently live here, which makes me better than you.
As you can probably tell I don't have a problem with being "direct."
Incel wannabe!
Some of us have lived in NY and left because there are too many ****** like you, @Arps. Living in NY doesn't make you better than the rest of us. It just proves that you have a high tolerance for TINY apartments or decent sized ones at insane prices (and I say that owning homes in SF and DC) noise, garbage filled streets and people who are rude to each other in public.
God. People in NY who think the world revolves around them! Keep thinking that. No one cares about you.
But yes Ben , you should report it!
Keep posting Arps …. everyone is enjoying laughing at your incompetence and inability to join the human race.
you are culpable if you do not report it.
Utterly false and insulting. Ben is under no moral responsibility to report anything. You read this free blog which Ben works 70+ hours a week to provide content to you and then you post this insulting garbage of a comment.
In that case you, also, are now culpable.
Any airline manager reading this content may well put a warning out to all cabin crew regarding these situations along with uniform standards. Yes this situation should be reported.
Why would you want to get someone in trouble when nothing happened. Seems petty and just mean to report that.
Yes, because it’s only a problem if someone gets killed. By your logic, failing to address a maintenance issue is only a problem if the plane goes down. Glad you’re not in charge of safety where I work.
You should have expressed your safety concern in real-time with the employee once safe to do so after airborne. The reaction/response would then help you decide if you felt the need to do anything else/next steps. Seriously, people need to learn how to talk again. Ask the question, get the issue cleared up, and move on.
Report it. Employees do slack off and need a swift kick sometimes. Don't ask for anything from the airline except to take corrective action, be it re-training or disciplinary.
Report it. It's a safety breach that could become a bigger issue down the track.
I was recently on a major airline flight where the attendant was in the lavatory for an extended period of time. I know this because I was waiting to use it and thought she would be coming right out. In fact, I didn't know it was a crew member until the other attendant told me after I suggested she knock on the door as something could be wrong. She said the attendant was talking to...
I was recently on a major airline flight where the attendant was in the lavatory for an extended period of time. I know this because I was waiting to use it and thought she would be coming right out. In fact, I didn't know it was a crew member until the other attendant told me after I suggested she knock on the door as something could be wrong. She said the attendant was talking to her insurance company. I was considering reporting her but decided it wasn't worth my time. If we had been in the air, different situation.
Just last week, I was on a flight where they forgot to lower the landing gear, it was a very last few seconds before a very steep and aggressive climb and go around. Also the flight attendants on that same flight never did a cabin safety check on departure or before landing. The next day a friend of mine was on another airline and they taxxied out and never did a safety demo. The FAA needs to increase check rides!!
I find this incredibly hard to believe. The airlines actually have onboard grading systems that look at exactly when the pilots established a stabalized approach and any go-around it logged and reported. Can you share the date and flight number, otherwise its BS.
This is a moronic piece because you're making some stupid assumptions here. I forget that I have my airpods in my ears all the time because it's so easy to hear through them in transparency mode. Complete non-issue. Get your facts straight next time.
found the FA lol
Surely Brizone, it is you who needs to “Get your facts straight next time”.
FA’s have a flight safety roll when on duty. Passengers are prohibited to use electronic devices at certain times during the flight.
This restriction is for flight safety purposes.
Are you still minded to exclaim that this is a “Complete non-issue” darlink?
Report, of course. And report the things that are not specifically safety issues but are still airline employees not following rules. Once you are allowed to start cherry-picking which rules you're going to follow, it's a very short, downhill slide to missing something that really does impact passenger/plane safety. If you don't want to follow the rules, don't be a FA.
Yes, you report the air pods. Your safety is not the only safety at risk here.
As for the uniform violations, that's up to you. It's not harming anyone but it does give you some personal insight into how they "feel" about the rules of their job and should make you feel less bad for reporting them. Just imagine what other rules they're flaunting...
Feel free to report the Flight Attendant by your entire article just seems by us against new hires. You have no idea that person seniority. I’ve seen a lot of senior Flight Attendant that look very young but they’ve been flying for over 10 years and they make some of these in fractions and I’ve seen older Flight Attendant who are actually new hires Brake rules also. You can’t tell just by looking at someone...
Feel free to report the Flight Attendant by your entire article just seems by us against new hires. You have no idea that person seniority. I’ve seen a lot of senior Flight Attendant that look very young but they’ve been flying for over 10 years and they make some of these in fractions and I’ve seen older Flight Attendant who are actually new hires Brake rules also. You can’t tell just by looking at someone whether they’re a new hire or not it seems like simply because someone is young. You classify them as being junior and simply because someone looks old you classified them as being senior, but that’s not the case at all.
Either way safety issue should always be reported, but I think your views are a little skewed.
Hi Ben,
The old trend was "this could endanger the children. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" That justified anything from book bans to traffic-lit crosswalks to 15MPH school zones. Note that a 2020s car brakes will stop it quicker from 30MPH than a 1980s car could stop from 15MPH.
The new trend is "this is against safety! THINK OF THE SAFETY!" Yeah, safety is as important as we coccoon in our safe spaces free of triggers...
Hi Ben,
The old trend was "this could endanger the children. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" That justified anything from book bans to traffic-lit crosswalks to 15MPH school zones. Note that a 2020s car brakes will stop it quicker from 30MPH than a 1980s car could stop from 15MPH.
The new trend is "this is against safety! THINK OF THE SAFETY!" Yeah, safety is as important as we coccoon in our safe spaces free of triggers and trigger-warnings, not being exposed to single-letter words (N-Word, R-Word, T-Word, and 23 to go.)
FOR A FACT you have no idea if she was listening to anything whatsoever. Airpods are great but if you're working a 10hr shift, putting them in and out 2x per flight is going to make your ear sore. Far more comfortable is leaving them in, but not having them connected to any audio source.
Some of the Airpod-like devices even do ANR/ANC (US/UK) which makes the FA's job easier as she can hear flight deck instructions and pax requests.
I echo previous posters who have said approaching the FA after the flight would have been productive. I would not say [as others have suggested] that I feared for my safety. I would inquire as to what she was listening to. If you don't like the answer, THEN post your thoughts on the lack of safety.
Something nobody in the 86 comments before mine said:
You were in F with full view. Why not speak to her in a normal voice and she if she reacts to you. If she has no reaction or takes out one earbud, or answers you... you now have all the data.
Your site. Your content. Your monetization. Your business. In this case a three second attempt to get her attention OR a short chat about her music choice... would have answered this "safety" question.
Be safe and think of the children.
Isn't use of any electronic communication device during take off and landing prohibited? Airpods are electronic communication devices as well.
agree it's tough; the tie-breaker for me would be whether or not the FA seemed attentive and engaged performing duties and service during the rest of the flight (i.e., not doing bare minimum they can get away with).
if so, i'd assume it's a one-off and the FA likely takes their job seriously; if not and they're mediocre, i'd assume that this is a consistent pattern and report it.
Report it. It's conduct unbecoming. Unless things are reported, there's no opportunity to remedy them. Don't be concerned about the crew member receiving a formal reprimand - they deserve one!
Just remember that these people would have had police drag you off the flight and ban you from flying for taking too long between bites. F. THEM.
The thing is if you don’t want to be a “snitch” and don’t want them fired why wouldn’t you go up to them after the flight and tell them that the AirPod in ears during thoses times made you uncomfortable?! Also if you saw it on climb out you must have figured they would do it on landing and if safety is your biggest concern why didn’t you say some before landing to make sure...
The thing is if you don’t want to be a “snitch” and don’t want them fired why wouldn’t you go up to them after the flight and tell them that the AirPod in ears during thoses times made you uncomfortable?! Also if you saw it on climb out you must have figured they would do it on landing and if safety is your biggest concern why didn’t you say some before landing to make sure your landing was safe? If you report depending on what airline it is they flight attendant will most likely get fired so going up to someone is your best option if you really care
If you see something, say something.
I can't decide if I should report this safety violation through the proper channels so, I'll instead wrtie a click bait article and profit personally with ad revenue from unsafe flight attendants on us Airlines. Got it!
I have reported safety violations in the past. In one case a person (fellow traveler) actually ended up getting hurt. I believe they safety related rules are there for a reason. If something were to happen on another flight in the future and then someone got seriously injured or even died, I know I would feel bad if I had had the opportunity to fix the problem in advance and had chosen not to do so.
Most I would do is mention it in the post-flight email survey you probably got and leave it at that.
A question for you Ben, if you please?
What will you do if this situation happens again?
Photograph and report, confront the FA or do nothing yet again?
Hopefully he'll crash and burn, to make up for his moral equivocations and subsequent profiteering.
Ok! I’ll bite …. please explain?
@rassalas
No one forced you to sign up for airline credit cards. Take some accountability.
FWIW... I'm an airline pilot and I use AirPods in the flight deck, not to play music but for noise cancelling purposes. It filter out the hiss of wind and allows me to hear the radios better. (assuming we're off headset and using the flight deck speakers. Just playing devil's advocate that the FA could be doing the same thing. It's not a good look, though, if passengers can see it, and I always take them off before bathroom breaks.
FYI - if you ARE an airline pilot, you should know that AirPods are not TSO'd for inflight use. If we were flying together, I'd ask you to remove them.
- Also an airline pilot
A flight attendant should serve as the exemplar of the safety rules. If they do not there is nothing to stop passengers from making unsafe decisions. My snarky self would probably want to call them out and ask if they are doing the right thing. My sane self would shut up and report a safety violation.
Congratulations, good safety move.
Report it Ben.
As one of those retired senior folks, what I would recommend is that you take him/her aside as you deplane, hand them your business card and explain your job and your concerns. When they see what you do they will almost assuredly apologize. Then drop it. If they cop an attitude, report it. But think carefully. What if they are supporting an ill child and you cost them their job and insurance. How would you...
As one of those retired senior folks, what I would recommend is that you take him/her aside as you deplane, hand them your business card and explain your job and your concerns. When they see what you do they will almost assuredly apologize. Then drop it. If they cop an attitude, report it. But think carefully. What if they are supporting an ill child and you cost them their job and insurance. How would you feel? Would you be willing to take time to testify at a disciplinary hearing? Airlines are becoming immune to such issues because everyone has a phone and a camera. Management would get nothing else done running down every snitch photo or report. They consider such reports as just part of the job.
Ahh the poor ill child tearjerker excuse!
Is it possible they were being used as hearing assistance devices? I think that is possible nowadays.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/120992
Jeff, it is not for you, me, or, anyone else to decide if the subject FA had a legitimate reason for apparently flaunting flight safety regulations.
I mean, it’s someone’s job…
I vote to report it. The airline can't fix problems it doesn't know about. It's all in how you phrase it... Just say you understand this isn't a major issue, but it is significant and it's an opportunity to counsel the FA on what's expected.
I sometimes wonder why I can bill out my time at $3,000/hour. Then I see this kind of advice.
First, this problem shouldn't be reported at all. Second, if you start your report with a self-deprecating disclaimer, any rational person reading your comments will be tossing them out as not worthy of their time. Third, you obviously agree with me that this problem isn't worthy of reporting -- and by reporting it you concede that...
I sometimes wonder why I can bill out my time at $3,000/hour. Then I see this kind of advice.
First, this problem shouldn't be reported at all. Second, if you start your report with a self-deprecating disclaimer, any rational person reading your comments will be tossing them out as not worthy of their time. Third, you obviously agree with me that this problem isn't worthy of reporting -- and by reporting it you concede that you have nothing better to do with your time.
Reporting this to the airline indicates four things
1) you're petty
2) you have nothing better to do with your time
3) you're a loser
4) you're not going to be a high value customer (because you're a loser and unable to bill out at $3k per hour)
Canadians call this "telling on yourself."
Arps! I call you a liar and fantasist …. now what are you prepared to do about it?
Not only are you ….
1) petty
2) you have nothing better to do with your time
3) you're a loser
4) you're not going to be a high value commentator.
Do get real sunshine!
You forgot he's a narcissist too.
Once again, thanks very much for so eloquently demonstrating the desperate need for massive tort reform.
Report it. It should be reviewed.
I’ve had worse, and regret not reporting them. Got in trouble be an FA because I reported cigarette smoke in the lavatory…I was in J DFW-HKG, but had used the adjacent Economy lav…the FA didn’t care about the cigarette smoke, but just focused on chastising me for using the Y lav. On a different airline, coincidentally also to HKG but from SFO, I was given a bottle of champagne...
Report it. It should be reviewed.
I’ve had worse, and regret not reporting them. Got in trouble be an FA because I reported cigarette smoke in the lavatory…I was in J DFW-HKG, but had used the adjacent Economy lav…the FA didn’t care about the cigarette smoke, but just focused on chastising me for using the Y lav. On a different airline, coincidentally also to HKG but from SFO, I was given a bottle of champagne for reporting the same type of incident, and that airline nailed the pax involved because I was able to identify him.
You can’t move cabins on INTL flights. The FA had to chastise you or face a huge fine from regulators. The cigarette smoke thing is a pain to deal with, and the FA didn’t want to make their job harder.
Champagne is bad for your health.
Arps, you continue to post false information. Why?
You must report such a safety concerning issue. It's the only way airlines can improve and coach or reprimand their staff.
US airlines aren’t interested in coaching. We don’t have a hospitality culture here. We’re about paying FAs the minimum while charging passengers the maximum and allowing Doug Parker to retire with dignity despite his 3 DUIs and destruction of $30 billion in market cap.
Ben, thank you for a well-written article that explains your reluctance to report this individual, however it is really imperative that you do so.
You have reminded us so many times over the years how flying is only the safest form of travel because of the learning curve, and the deep layers of redundancy built in.
We all see this - it's one, seemingly small, lazy, decision that leads to disaster. Whether that...
Ben, thank you for a well-written article that explains your reluctance to report this individual, however it is really imperative that you do so.
You have reminded us so many times over the years how flying is only the safest form of travel because of the learning curve, and the deep layers of redundancy built in.
We all see this - it's one, seemingly small, lazy, decision that leads to disaster. Whether that is a failure for a pilot or controller to double-check the altitude of their helicopter in front of a major airport, or whether that is the decision of privately-hired security at Heathrow to not re-scan all baggage in December of 1988, because the bags were surely "scanned properly" at Frankfurt airport, we can see how one small action fails the entire system in aviation.
This kind of sloppiness and breach of small rules can suggest and encourage a much wider culture of lazy, rule-breaking behaviour, if it is not called out.
Please do the right thing and report this individual to the airline, with a detailed description of what happened. This is the only way we can guarantee a safety culture still exists, and will continue to do so. I really do fear sometimes for US aviation....
Dude. (Or Dudette. Can’t tell from your name.) The redundancies you talk about are hardware/engineering. Flight attendants don’t really play a role. Aviation would be safe if we had zero crewmembers.
Chill tf out.
Wow. The commenter who never fails to show up to antagonise people on this blog, using someone else's corporate logo. I will try to avoid the personal insults that you love, but I won't chill out. Flying is safe for a reason, and that is the attention to detail. The failure of that attention to detail means a failure of the system. It really is that simple.
The world is only that simple if you’re retarded, which you might be. I’m an equity partner which means I’m literally a part owner of my firm. I’m not using “someone else’s corporate logo.”
Once again you bring the Law Firm into dispute Arps.
...and disrepute as well ! ...
From the sound of it, the concerned FA was not the most senior cabin crew on board, so there would have been a supervisor around and other colleagues. Isn‘t it usually a pair on the jumpseat in front? Are you trying to insinuate that you as a passenger were the only one noticing this, while none of the rest of the crew did?
This seems to be more of a disciplinary issue than a...
From the sound of it, the concerned FA was not the most senior cabin crew on board, so there would have been a supervisor around and other colleagues. Isn‘t it usually a pair on the jumpseat in front? Are you trying to insinuate that you as a passenger were the only one noticing this, while none of the rest of the crew did?
This seems to be more of a disciplinary issue than a real safety concern and I am in the rare minority here saying, don‘t report it.
Not my business and not really endangering me, especially since I don‘t know what he was listening to, if anything.
Don’t report an FA who it would appear to be fragrantly disobeying flight safety regulations …. at what point do you decide CapitlMike, that safety regulations should be reported?
Don’t report an FA who it would appear to be fragrantly disobeying flight safety regulations …. at what point do you decide CapitlMike, that safety regulations should be reported?
Please do explain, at what stage seniority should come into play in terms of safety violations?
If the co-pilot is young but happens to be the one flying, he can disregard tower instructions and laugh it off because he's not the senior officer?
That's exactly what you seem to be suggesting.
Your example with the co-pilot is ridiculous and polemic. The First Officer, flying or not, will be in the flight deck with the Captain and if there’s something wrong with the way the First Officer is executing his duties, it would be the Captain’s job to point this out and discuss.
Cabin Crew also is organized in a hierarchical structure. There would be a purser plus deputy, ultimately responsible for safety and cabin service....
Your example with the co-pilot is ridiculous and polemic. The First Officer, flying or not, will be in the flight deck with the Captain and if there’s something wrong with the way the First Officer is executing his duties, it would be the Captain’s job to point this out and discuss.
Cabin Crew also is organized in a hierarchical structure. There would be a purser plus deputy, ultimately responsible for safety and cabin service. That’s why it matters that the FA we are talking about here obviously wasn’t the most senior crew member. Because there are inflight supervisors or a purser on board who should have noticed, if a cabin crew member was violating any rules, particularly those pertaining to safety.
Did you read the comment by a Flight Captain above, who wrote that he wears AirPods on the Flight Deck for noise cancelling purposes?
That’s what I meant.
As a normal pax, even if running a blog like this, I am not in a position to judge this situation and that’s why I am saying, don’t report it, not my business.
CapitalMike, you are also in the rare minority who have seen a woman naked. Obviously this FA shouldn’t be reported.
Arps, we await with baited breath your words of legal wisdom why an FA flaunting safety regulations should NOT be reported?
One of the best ways to report it as a general issue is to blog about it ... which you did.
Yes, that is one way Bobo. However, failing to blog the finer details is akin to abdicating one’s duty of care towards all of the passengers who may be affected by the lack of responsibility displayed by an irresponsible FA.
The reported incident may be considered minor by many, but how many other minor incidents is this FA responsible for?
With your slippery slope fallacy, Aero, no wonder judges constantly toss out your motions.
I was on a transcon flight recently where the passenger sitting next to me had her backpack under her feet during both takeoff and landing, rather than underneath the seat in front of her. It wasn't even partially underneath the seat. This wasn't noticed by the FA (or she chose not to correct it). On AA, at the end of the safety demo, the recording says something like "we're passing through the cabin now to...
I was on a transcon flight recently where the passenger sitting next to me had her backpack under her feet during both takeoff and landing, rather than underneath the seat in front of her. It wasn't even partially underneath the seat. This wasn't noticed by the FA (or she chose not to correct it). On AA, at the end of the safety demo, the recording says something like "we're passing through the cabin now to do our final safety checks," and nobody passed through the cabin.
I debated whether I should say something to the passenger, but I ended up keeping my mouth shut. On the one hand, I'd be the one who would have a more difficult time evacuating in an emergency. On the other, the chances of an emergency are so slim. But I was really surprised that the crew didn't notice this on either takeoff or landing.
Passenger safety and self preservation beats embarrassment every time Andrew.
Good on you. That passenger wouldn’t have taken kindly to your words and you’d be sitting next to them for the next 6 hours. They’d probably fart in your face and give you pink eye
Andrew, to be clear, the passenger was fully at fault and you were not. But you made a pragmatic choice. Pragmatism escapes other commenters on this blog
Arps, your comments are low, lower than a snake’s belly, how do you live with yourself?
Ben: imagine you're playing a character named Passenger Blunt... what would he do? ;)
@ Kay_Elemeno -- Ugh! But what if he's not Captain Allears?!
AirPods can be used as hearing aids and to enhance hearing of voices over background noise. It could theoretically help her hear the pilot announcements over the motor sounds.
Ben, quite frankly you failed in your duty of care to all of your fellow passengers and the crew. The FA was fragrantly disobeying flight safety regulations. The same regulations which potentially could get you fined or even banned from flying. The FA has a flight safety responsibility which it could be argued that they were being deliberately ignored.
The FA is irresponsible and should have been photographed and reported …. your duty of...
Ben, quite frankly you failed in your duty of care to all of your fellow passengers and the crew. The FA was fragrantly disobeying flight safety regulations. The same regulations which potentially could get you fined or even banned from flying. The FA has a flight safety responsibility which it could be argued that they were being deliberately ignored.
The FA is irresponsible and should have been photographed and reported …. your duty of care would then have been fulfilled.
Afterthought …. the longer you delay in bringing this matter to the attention of the airline management, the worse your failure becomes!
how in the hell do you figure Ben assumed any duty whatsoever (let alone an affirmative duty of care) to other pax and crew?
You can report it without reporting the specific attendant. That way you do your civic duty without getting anyone specifically in trouble.
Not condoning the use, but it could be that the attendant had the ear pods in but was not listening to anything (sometimes it's just easier than taking them in and out of the case).
Talking of safety procedures, I find it odd that US airlines don't require having window shades fully...
You can report it without reporting the specific attendant. That way you do your civic duty without getting anyone specifically in trouble.
Not condoning the use, but it could be that the attendant had the ear pods in but was not listening to anything (sometimes it's just easier than taking them in and out of the case).
Talking of safety procedures, I find it odd that US airlines don't require having window shades fully open for take-off/landing. You lose so much situational awareness without them.
As a college professor, this sort of behavior from a younger flight attendant doesn't surprise me at all. Most in my profession are very worried for the future based on what we are seeing now. The last few years of students have exhibited a shocking decline in a number of areas. Disregard for rules and instructions, belligerent dishonesty even in the face of evidence (reminiscent of a certain prominent public figure), and the absence of...
As a college professor, this sort of behavior from a younger flight attendant doesn't surprise me at all. Most in my profession are very worried for the future based on what we are seeing now. The last few years of students have exhibited a shocking decline in a number of areas. Disregard for rules and instructions, belligerent dishonesty even in the face of evidence (reminiscent of a certain prominent public figure), and the absence of anything resembling a work ethic are among the things we are seeing.
I encourage you to report this. I guarantee they will lie if approached, so strong evidence or consistent documentation are needed. Without facing consequences, or at least friction, these behaviors will only expand.
It's minor and petty.
YES! Your logic eaci, is irresponsible and therefore your post has to be “Minor and Petty”.
Devils advocate: AirPods are FDA approved hearing aids and I don’t think using a hearing aid prohibits someone from being an FA?
Likely scenario: listening to something.
Report it. You often post about how flying is so safe because we learn so much and implement strict standards and regulations. It can only be seconds that the FA missing a crucial notification from cockpit or other FAs where something dangerous or devastating could happen.
I had a F/A a week after my earlier sighting of AirPods who wore them inflight for the entire flight... gate to gate. But he served us in First and was outstanding... like above and beyond especially with one elderly customer who couldn't find an item, left something in the gate, got the pilot to send a message, etc. So I put that off to perhaps some sort of hearing aid or maybe a battery...
I had a F/A a week after my earlier sighting of AirPods who wore them inflight for the entire flight... gate to gate. But he served us in First and was outstanding... like above and beyond especially with one elderly customer who couldn't find an item, left something in the gate, got the pilot to send a message, etc. So I put that off to perhaps some sort of hearing aid or maybe a battery died or something failed on usual hearing aid. But again, people usually get caught doing something wrong because they're already being looked at for other reasons.
Please report this. It is a safety issue and it’s also unprofessional. Flight attendants are truly here for safety purposes but also service.
Would it be unprofessional for a nurse to wear AirPods while taking vitals at a checkup? Yes.
If you were going out to eat at a nice restaurant and the server had in AirPods while taking your order, would that be unprofessional? Yes
Please report it. It’s not something...
Please report this. It is a safety issue and it’s also unprofessional. Flight attendants are truly here for safety purposes but also service.
Would it be unprofessional for a nurse to wear AirPods while taking vitals at a checkup? Yes.
If you were going out to eat at a nice restaurant and the server had in AirPods while taking your order, would that be unprofessional? Yes
Please report it. It’s not something a flight attendant should be dismissed for, but that individual should be retrained.
I had the exact same thing on an AA flight early this month... I was in 11F on an A321 (window by the 2nd door, F/A jumpseat is directly across). She put in red Airpods when she sat down for take-off, and took out two cell phones (one in the AA case, another not) and had them on her lap. The one not in the AA case she tilted toward her and had it turned...
I had the exact same thing on an AA flight early this month... I was in 11F on an A321 (window by the 2nd door, F/A jumpseat is directly across). She put in red Airpods when she sat down for take-off, and took out two cell phones (one in the AA case, another not) and had them on her lap. The one not in the AA case she tilted toward her and had it turned in horizontal orientation. She took the Airpods out and put that cell phone in a bag under the adjacent seat when the 10k chime went off. On landing, she did the exact same thing.
And why exactly were you tracking her so closely?
Mind your own business, please.
Because he was looking right at her? The FA in the situation he describes is sitting maybe 5 feet directly in front of him.
Safety is our business on an airplane. This is not merely a question of unprofessional rudeness.
Arps why exactly were you tracking this blog so closely?
Mind your own business, please.
No, Ben. You were gaslit by grade school bullies. Snitches who communicate rationally and dispassionately become top litigators at plaintiffs' firms. Some of these litigators become centimillionaires.
Having said that, Ben -- headphones don't mean someone isn't paying attention. AirPods have transparency mode.
I have never believed that you Arps, could have anything more to do with the legal profession than to be allowed to deliver the tea around the office. Your posts in this post prove my theory beyond question. Thank you for confirming your status once again.
Aero, sorry my co-counsel cleaned your clock in court the other day.
Arps, that sort of military slang is fighting talk in my part of the world, relying upon others to carry out your fantasies speaks volumes about you dear child.
Thanks for proving we desperately need massive tort reform in this country.
How do you know they were not using transparency noise to cancel the noise but still listening?
That Gz, would be for the airline management investigation to establish once they had been made aware of the incident.
Report it. As you point out, they are likely to deny it, they are unlikely to get sacked… however, they may get a warning about why this type of behaviour is not acceptable. As a result they may choose never to wear the headphones again due fear of dismissal… the effect being you (with a few other steps then taken along the way) would have changed their behaviour and all she the better.
Report ! The sloppy lazy FA on American would take any chance they get to complain about us.
I think you should report it.
I’ve had a couple of times where the FA wasn’t in thier jump seat at the front during landing. On an e75. They were talking with thier colleague in the back and didn’t come up for landing.
I believe the best way to handle this dilemma is to approach the flight attendant directly in a kind and non-confrontational manner. As a flight attendant for a major carrier, I’ve found that addressing issues directly and respectfully with the person involved—while still onboard—is often the most effective approach. I prefer to resolve matters personally whenever possible, rather than escalating them to management.
Obviously report it. It will only get worse if things like this do not get corrected. Anyone that has any sense of safety would want to stop this. Honestly, anyone that has any sense of professionalism would also want this stopped.
Unfortunately, I think many of your colleagues would reject such an approach and have the passenger kicked off the plane.
Agree you should definitely report -- this isn't a procedural shortcut like "shortened the safety briefing" or "didn't ask for a verbal yes from the exit row," it's actually tuning out what's going on in the cabin.
I would report in a more general way, by blogging about it as you have, without identifying the flight attendant (or even the
flight) so that the airline can act to ensure that all the FAs are informed that this is not ok. You are probably uniquely positioned to do this since you take enough flights that it might even be hard for them to narrow it down (and as part of your feedback...
I would report in a more general way, by blogging about it as you have, without identifying the flight attendant (or even the
flight) so that the airline can act to ensure that all the FAs are informed that this is not ok. You are probably uniquely positioned to do this since you take enough flights that it might even be hard for them to narrow it down (and as part of your feedback to the airline, maybe even emphasize that you don’t want this person targeted specifically, but for the issue to be addressed more broadly.
As for the pin, if it’s an issue I happen to agree with, I let it go. If it’s for something I’m strongly opposed to, of course throw the book at them, nobody should be allowed to say that. (kidding)
Not reporting would be mean you condone this kind of behavior from flight attendants. Given your interest in aviation I’m surprised you think it’s ok to stay quiet.
I believe the best way to handle this dilemma is to approach the flight attendant directly in a kind and non-confrontational manner. As a flight attendant for a major carrier, I’ve found that addressing issues directly and respectfully with the person involved—while still onboard—is often the most effective approach. I prefer to resolve matters personally whenever possible, rather than escalating them to management.
It’s not Ben’s, or any passengers, job to manage flight attendants.
Report the incident and let it be the job of whoever is responsible.
Of course you should report this.
Flight attendants repeatedly tell us that they are on our flights for safety and for safety only. When they so flagrantly violate safety rules, they should absolutely be reported.
It's neither petty nor minor.
I completely agree. Ben, you should report this. I'm also in the "snitches get stitches" mindset typically, but I think you should report this. I highly doubt something like this would get an FA fired, but rather it would be a warning, unless this happens frequently and has been documented. Either way, you wouldn't be causing an issue and you shouldn't feel bad for reporting that FA.