I’ve written in the past about airplane window shade etiquette, which basically boils down the person in the window seat having control of the window shade’s position, with some exceptions for courtesy. I’m curious about a variation on that question, and how others handle this, whether you’re an aviation geek or not.
In this post:
Fully dark aircraft cabins drive me kind of bonkers
As a general rule of thumb, I select window seats whenever possible, and my preference is to have window shades open.
For one, I’m an aviation geek, so I love observing all phases of flight, the wing, the engine, etc. Beyond that, the world is beautiful, and I’ll never take the miracle of flight for granted, and how amazing the views are. There’s something so magical about looking out over the world, being 35,000 feet away from everyone else’s BS (well, maybe not so much anymore, due to the widespread availability of inflight Wi-Fi, but I digress).
However, there’s no denying that on many flights, virtually all window shades remain closed, despite it being a daytime flight. Sometimes it’s because the crew specifically asks passengers to lower the window shades out of respect for other passengers, so they can rest. Other times there just seems to be peer pressure, and some people do it, so then others follow.
As I see it, there are a couple of situations where it’s objectively appropriate for the crew to encourage people to close their window shades:
- If it’s a “redeye” flight despite it being light outside most of the way, like many flights from Asia to the US that depart in the early morning, and then it’s only briefly dark, before being light the rest of the way
- If it’s a flight where it’s dark outside, but the sunrise will catch people off guard, when they’d otherwise be sleeping
However, what I’m less a fan of is the trend of virtually all window shades being closed on your run-of-the-mill daytime flights, especially those that aren’t long hauls.
For example, several weeks ago I took the five-hour flight from Miami to Salt Lake City, departing around 9AM. I understand others want to get some rest on that flight, but I kind of hate sitting in darkness for that many hours when I’m wide awake, and had a good night of sleep. I just want to gaze out the window and watch the world go by! Should the desire of other people to sleep on a daytime flight supersede my desire to look out the window?
How do you balance your preferences with those of others?
All of this brings me to my question — in situations where passengers decide amongst themselves that it’s going to be a “dark cabin,” do you just automatically go along with that, or how and where do you draw the line?
Assuming it’s a flight where I don’t think it’s inappropriate to keep window shades open, my thoughts on this are twofold. First of all, if I notice all window shades are closed at the beginning of the flight, I’ll open “my” shades early, in hopes of starting a trend, and making others not feel peer pressured into keeping them closed.
Beyond that, during the flight, my take is that if any other people have their window shades open, I’m happy to open mine as well. Meanwhile if literally every window shade is closed, then I won’t do that, because I know how blinding that can be. The below social media post from some time ago is a funny example of that. Though I will say, I’d make an exception if we were over Greenland and there were amazing views, or something like that.
Bottom line
I’m always amazed by how on so many daytime flights, the cabin stays dark the entire time, with virtually no one opening their window shades. I can sort of understand that for long haul travel, but for short and medium haul travel, it confuses the heck out of me.
Ultimately I’m not here to judge the choices of others, though I always struggle with looking out the window when I’m seemingly the only one who is interested in doing so. It’s almost blinding when you have a completely dark cabin and then one person opens their window shade. At the same time, if one person opens it, then maybe a trend can be started.
Anyone else not love the trend of totally dark cabins on so many flights? And if you’re a fellow window seat passenger who likes looking outside, what’s your approach?
Aisle passenger gets the easy access to the lav.
Middle passenger gets both arm rests.
Window passenger gets the shade.
Haven't we already had this discussion?
Few years back I was in UA Polaris, first seat behind the galley. Window, as always, because that's the best entertainment for me, since I can, and do stare at screens all day long. I was the only one with the shade open, and a lady from some middle seat made a stink that she could not see her screen properly. If my neighbor would have asked me, no problem. But not somebody 5 seats...
Few years back I was in UA Polaris, first seat behind the galley. Window, as always, because that's the best entertainment for me, since I can, and do stare at screens all day long. I was the only one with the shade open, and a lady from some middle seat made a stink that she could not see her screen properly. If my neighbor would have asked me, no problem. But not somebody 5 seats away. So I asked the FA. Lovely lady. Senior obviously. Her answer: 'It's your window, and your shade, so, it's totally up to you.' She even took photos of Greenland for me, while I was sleeping (with shades down), and had emailed them to me within hours of the flight.
It used to be standard procedure to have window shades open on take off and landings, for safety purposes.
Only on night flights it is a must. Its a courtesy to others. Sure you can take a peak out at the stars, but if its sunny, that is not very considerate to others.
I always want to see outside if it's light out. And I'm kind of a white knuckled flier and it's a lot less stressful and claustrophobic when there's turbulence if I can see out. I choose window seats and will keep mine open unless the captain asks us to close them all.
If one wants to control the window shade then pay for/reserve a window seat. I close it when bright sunshine in coming through making views impossible or over oceans and deserts where there is little to nothing to see. Other than that it's staying open.
As a retired pilot, flying non-rev, I seldom get my choice of seats. It's my pet peeve that people riding in a miracle bird as humans had never done for millennia just shut out the world, the better to see their phones.
I want to see where we are, what the sky is doing, and experience the world. I am in the minority.
You're not a minority.
You're just old.
…. and you EskimoBot, are such a pathetic burner phone posting numpty. Your jealousy of anyone who doesn’t stoop to your depths of inadequacy is legendary.
Sounds a bit like a social anxiety issue.
Do what you think is right and assume other people are reasonable and civilised. When I think I will need some shuteye on a day flight, I will always have eyeshades with me.
That being said- if someone says the glare from your window is making it hard for them to work on their laptop, or if they politely ask that you close it because they have a terrible migraine - just be a nice person and do the right thing.
I always pick a window seat to look out. It makes me less anxious when I can see out to the open space. It drives me nuts to be asked to close the blind. I feel better with the sun on me. I believe if you want it dark to rest/sleep then bring and wear an eye/sleep mask. You can always bring one easily in a carry on. Blink 40 Bucky are the most comfortable......
I always pick a window seat to look out. It makes me less anxious when I can see out to the open space. It drives me nuts to be asked to close the blind. I feel better with the sun on me. I believe if you want it dark to rest/sleep then bring and wear an eye/sleep mask. You can always bring one easily in a carry on. Blink 40 Bucky are the most comfortable... I paid extra to have the window to look out of and have the sun on me... not fair to ask me or try to pressure me to close the window.
Open windowshades can be bad for viewing screens, or for sunlight falling on people's faces (or devices) during banking maneuvers. Also in hot climates, the difference between feeling too warm in the aircraft (tropical sun) or not.
So, though I like to be able to see outside, once the flight is at cruising altitude I'm happy to think of it as a quiet zone - including visually.
FWIW, many of my recent short-haul flights (maybe...
Open windowshades can be bad for viewing screens, or for sunlight falling on people's faces (or devices) during banking maneuvers. Also in hot climates, the difference between feeling too warm in the aircraft (tropical sun) or not.
So, though I like to be able to see outside, once the flight is at cruising altitude I'm happy to think of it as a quiet zone - including visually.
FWIW, many of my recent short-haul flights (maybe just non-US ones) ask for all windowshades to be open during taxi, takeoff, landing - so in those cases, the flights are starting from from the position Ben describes.
UV rays are a big thing for me, I used to fly 4-6 hours consistently weekly for almost a decade; it was cool at the start but it's the same clouds after awhile.
I observe a similar approach when I have a X-Ray procedure - it's fine for me but the technician/dentist choses to walk away behind a screen/next room. I suppose if a person doesn't fly much then knock yourself out to view...
UV rays are a big thing for me, I used to fly 4-6 hours consistently weekly for almost a decade; it was cool at the start but it's the same clouds after awhile.
I observe a similar approach when I have a X-Ray procedure - it's fine for me but the technician/dentist choses to walk away behind a screen/next room. I suppose if a person doesn't fly much then knock yourself out to view the clouds all flight.
Other commenters mentioned that the cabin is dark due to window shades being out down. Look, if you fly often enough - cabin lighting controls the overall lighting of the plane. Don't blame whoever is sitting at the windows, but ask the question - "Why has the cabin crew turned off/dimmed all the lights?"
Think back to when you boarding a flight at night time (ground level) and realise windows don't make a difference for this point.
Your biggest mistake is believing that these shades can block rays.
And your comparison to crew dimming the lights is bad.
The crews have a huge conflict of interest.
They prefer you STFU and dissappear in the dark rather than actively bothering them.
Exactly...crew do it so you won't bother them!
Love this - open window fan too! And always choose the window for that;)
Can you please make an article or blog post about coughers on flights?? On literally every flight I take I hear a symphony of coughing - ppl casually coming on sick - we need someone to write an article about health flight etiquette. If you have no choice, and absolutely must fly sick at the very least wear a mask. Rather...
Love this - open window fan too! And always choose the window for that;)
Can you please make an article or blog post about coughers on flights?? On literally every flight I take I hear a symphony of coughing - ppl casually coming on sick - we need someone to write an article about health flight etiquette. If you have no choice, and absolutely must fly sick at the very least wear a mask. Rather than cough all over everyone and making everyone else on the plane sick. And if ur non stop coughing or sneezing please stay home:)
I agree, I wanted to stay home too. But who's going to reimburse my basic economy tickets?
This is wrong in the most adorably naive way
If opening my shade messes with them watching inflight entertainment, I keep it closed. Otherwise, up to me.
Who are these people who think it proper to have a dark cabin DURING THE DAY? (And why does this appear to be an issue only on trans-ocean flights rather than, for example, cross-country flights?) If I am going westbound, my strategy is to stay awake and sleep when I arrive. If you want to sleep, more power to you -- bring eyeshades (I recommend also that you bring earplugs -- genius move, I know)....
Who are these people who think it proper to have a dark cabin DURING THE DAY? (And why does this appear to be an issue only on trans-ocean flights rather than, for example, cross-country flights?) If I am going westbound, my strategy is to stay awake and sleep when I arrive. If you want to sleep, more power to you -- bring eyeshades (I recommend also that you bring earplugs -- genius move, I know). I chose the window seat intentionally and, as someone else stated already, I, and I alone, control whether it's open or not. If the captain of the plane makes me close it, I will. Otherwise, yeah, no, sorry. PS: If I had my druthers, I'd be in an aisle seat and you would keep the window shade OPEN as a courtesy to me.
I'd bet money most of them are more pleasant and self-aware than you are, given your comment.
It's just not that big a deal. The hysterical shrieking and bragging can go.
I absolutely do not care what anyone else in the cabin thinks. I hate the sun and the last thing I need is being blasted by UV rays at 30k ft. I’m keeping all the window shades within my reach closed the second I’m permitted to. Anyone else in the cabin is free to do whatever they want, but I can assure you that there is going to be an incident if anyone dares try to tell me what do with my shades or god forbid dares to touch them themselves.
Your biggest mistake is believing that these shades can block rays.
As a person who always chooses to sit in a window seat and keep the shade open I am surprised not to see any mention of which side of the plane people are complaining about the shade being open on. I will always try to sit on the side of the plane that faces north for both my comfort and to avoid direct sunlight on the neighboring seats.
Isn’t that why you get eyeshades in your amenity kit?
Not everone flies exclusively business class.
Absolutely correct EskimoBot, I fly more F than J, now that I no longer have to travel to DEN at my ex-masters behest …. :-)
One does not feel entitled or privileged in the manner that you proletariat types would like us to behold. After all, you are the ones who use your burner phones to comment herein. One can easily tell don’t you know EskimoBot, your limited word count speaks volumes …. :-)
Agree it’s the decision of a window seat occupant. But at 8 or 9am the sun can be coming directly in the window blinding someone in the middle section or in opposite aisle seat.
Many a time I’ve had to hold the emergency exit placard to the side of my head to stop the light. Not to mention making the seatback screen hard to see due to glares
Something I live with as I also...
Agree it’s the decision of a window seat occupant. But at 8 or 9am the sun can be coming directly in the window blinding someone in the middle section or in opposite aisle seat.
Many a time I’ve had to hold the emergency exit placard to the side of my head to stop the light. Not to mention making the seatback screen hard to see due to glares
Something I live with as I also occasionally raise the shade if in a window seat. But when the window setter opens the shades and goes to sleep with them up That’s just selfish.
If you sit in the window seat you control the shade. I'm with you, daytime flight, leave them open if that's what you want. I usually take aisle seat but like to see what is going on outside.
I got into it with a drunk, slovenly, disgusting woman from Philadelphia. She actually cursed loudly at me because I had the shade open and she wanted to watch a movie. I asked her when I vomitted (due to air sickness), if she preferred it on her lap or head. That fixed it.
Just blame airsickness. Nobody, I mean nobody wants to hear and then smell throw up. I,too, hate this shades trend. It’s definitely...
I got into it with a drunk, slovenly, disgusting woman from Philadelphia. She actually cursed loudly at me because I had the shade open and she wanted to watch a movie. I asked her when I vomitted (due to air sickness), if she preferred it on her lap or head. That fixed it.
Just blame airsickness. Nobody, I mean nobody wants to hear and then smell throw up. I,too, hate this shades trend. It’s definitely because people are absolutely obsessed with their screens, and darkness makes it easier to see. F em!
The best is have flightradar24 open and spot passing flights (with the shade wide open). Its amazing how close flights actually get at cruising altitude. I mean you have the entire sky and chose to cross my path but a few 1000 feet away!
This is what i tell people who open the shades. I will throw up and if you want to smell it or have it on you so be it. And yes I have thrown up multiple times from the light pollution and my sensitivity to movement. The losers end up with some on them but hey they got some sunlight lol.
Unfortunately, nobody really cares about their surroundings anymore. All people want to do is look at little screens. Everywhere they go.
I do not own a mobile phone, and I love to look out the window while flying. Even when I'm reading a book, I prefer natural light to the overhead light.
If I notice sunlight coming through my specific window hitting another passenger in the face, I'll lower the shade until the sun is...
Unfortunately, nobody really cares about their surroundings anymore. All people want to do is look at little screens. Everywhere they go.
I do not own a mobile phone, and I love to look out the window while flying. Even when I'm reading a book, I prefer natural light to the overhead light.
If I notice sunlight coming through my specific window hitting another passenger in the face, I'll lower the shade until the sun is no longer hitting their eyes - this is usually during a turn and often goes away once we level out again.
Baffles me with the stupidity of Americans who close the window shades for take off and landing. And when you ask the person at the window seat to open the shades, they think you're from another planet. They're clueless.
I'm not at all a fan of dark cabins during daytime flights. It's ridiculous and honestly not good for sleep schedules and overall health. I always get a window shade to make sure it stays up.
That said, I'm mindful of the angle and if it's shining in my seatmates face while the plane is turning, even for a short amount of time. But I just lower it enough or even put my face and body in between. I'll gladly soak up the sunshine myself.
They make light blocking eye pillows. Anyone can find them on Amazon. Someone else's poor planning is not my concern.
The main problem here is that you're a whiny tool, so the socially well-adjusted will correct and overrule you. Insecure as you are, you'll roll over, since your inability to reason and resulting social status leaves you only power fantasies like that in your comment.
If asked to close it, I will generally pull it down halfway and it makes it look like I am compromising. This also makes it a bit darker for those away from the window. If all windows are closed, those who want it dark win and those who want sunlight, beautiful views and to beat jet lag lose. It the shades are up, those who want it dark can use eye shades, and those who want sunlight, beautiful views and to beat jet lag win too.
Sometimes the FA will come by and requests (demands) the shade be closed. If I don't am I disobeying a crew member? I am another that generally sits by the window to see the world go by.
Any suggestions?
Yes, tell them you need to see the horizon or you’ll vomit all over the plane. It works.
I have used phrasing close to this a few times: "I will close the shade, but before I do I think I will need your full name and employee number so I can include them in the refund request for the amount I paid for this seat to ensure I could specifically look out the window." The FAs walked away each time and I didn't hear anything more.
I open my shade when I sit down and it stays up. The natural light is better for reading. If you're a day sleeper, bring eyeshades.
Not always. MNL/SEL and the hungover Korean businessmen were complete asshats to the crew. It was a late am flight and I was the only one who kept my window open. The guy next to me hit his call button and complained to the FA. I told the FA I preferred to keep it open to see such a beautiful country, He smiled and walked away.
My shade goes up and stays up .
One experience I had was a 6 AM JFK to SFO flight. I was in the window seat, seatmate was aisle on the A321 business class on American. The sun was blinding, so the aisle passenger asked me to lower the shade. I obliged - it was early, and the sun was directly in our faces. Most passengers in business class were either sleeping or working. Obviously a full daytime flight. I don’t think the...
One experience I had was a 6 AM JFK to SFO flight. I was in the window seat, seatmate was aisle on the A321 business class on American. The sun was blinding, so the aisle passenger asked me to lower the shade. I obliged - it was early, and the sun was directly in our faces. Most passengers in business class were either sleeping or working. Obviously a full daytime flight. I don’t think the request was inappropriate. Many people probably had little sleep and wanted to get some rest before landing at SFO at 10 AM pacific or whatever it was.
I’m a bit confused at what you are asking. Are you saying that on your MIA to SLC flight, it was rude for passengers who were in the cabin window seats to choose to close their shades? Many people want shades down, either to nap or to view media on their personal screens.
If I want to sit next to a bulkhead at 35,000ft and stare at plastic, I'll ride a C-17. Otherwise the window is open. Only exception is sunrise and sunset b/c that messes with everyone and everything. Not sorry.
On every flight, I book window and my shade is always open. The only time it is closed somewhat is as a courtesy if there is direct sunlight on another pax.
International long distance: I am in either J or F. That's what eye shades in the amenity kits are for. I have told pax no and have told FAs that they should suggest to other pax that they use them.
Love having a window seat and looking put. Shades are completely up during takeoff and landing. My rule of thumb is to pay attention to local time at destination and adjust accordingly. Now, if the sun is at a low angle I'll close it just enough to let light in but avoid the death ray effect or I place myself closer to the window such that I'm blocking the light while being able to still look out.
Ben,
In Europe the regulators mandate shades to be up for takeoff and landing, so that in the event of an incident, FAs can see out to avoid instructing opening of emergency exits where there is fire, and rescuers can see in to tell whether passengers are still present.
The FAA does not mandate this.
I feel slightly nervous when flying in the USA and blinds are down for takeoff and landing.
Ben,
In Europe the regulators mandate shades to be up for takeoff and landing, so that in the event of an incident, FAs can see out to avoid instructing opening of emergency exits where there is fire, and rescuers can see in to tell whether passengers are still present.
The FAA does not mandate this.
I feel slightly nervous when flying in the USA and blinds are down for takeoff and landing.
It would be interesting to see an article exploring this - my prediction is that the FAA will change after there is a relevant incident in the States where this costs lives, but why not learn from KT328 - they did apply the floor-level lighting from that.
For a true red-eye flight (e.g., late LAX-TPE or ICN flight), then I have no issues with the shade being down for nearly the entire flight because you can't see anything anyway 90% of the flight.
For Ben's MIA-SLC flight, I find it ridiculous to have the shades down. If you need to sleep at 9 AM, then put on an eye mask.
Short-haul - no question about daylight being open.
Long-haul - the priority should be to help jetlag, which generally means open during the day.
(those connecting on unusual legs - tough)
I suggest the majority doing shade is because they are too disorganised/greedy (whether in money or time) to get enough sleep into their lives, and so catch up on sleep on flights.
They should not affect those of us who...
Short-haul - no question about daylight being open.
Long-haul - the priority should be to help jetlag, which generally means open during the day.
(those connecting on unusual legs - tough)
I suggest the majority doing shade is because they are too disorganised/greedy (whether in money or time) to get enough sleep into their lives, and so catch up on sleep on flights.
They should not affect those of us who do schedule enough sleep, and benefit from light during the day on day flights to manage jetlag.
And why should my eyes suffer - I read off paper as much as possible, for which I need good light.
(I have got to an advanced age without glasses/lenses so I must be doing something right for them)
The one situation where I understand the jet-lag trumping the daylight is Europe to USA leaving late afternoon in the summer - 3 hours sleep makes sense for the time-zone shift.
As with literally everything in life, a compromise is generally what works best in these scenarios. I'll always pick a window seat, but at the same time I don't want to be the only person in the cabin with the shade open.
Sitting on the right side of an A321 going up the coast from Florida to Philly at 6am, as much as I love the views, I know I'm not going to see...
As with literally everything in life, a compromise is generally what works best in these scenarios. I'll always pick a window seat, but at the same time I don't want to be the only person in the cabin with the shade open.
Sitting on the right side of an A321 going up the coast from Florida to Philly at 6am, as much as I love the views, I know I'm not going to see much, and if my seat mates are trying to knock out, the considerate thing is to keep it shut after takeoff until a bit later in flight so the sunrise doesn't blind them. 6am flight over the Rockies from Salt Lake to Denver? Different story entirely because those are some spectacular views. I try to balance out my own desires with whatever the considerate thing to do is at the moment.
Ultimately, those who want the shades shut the entire flight, should pick a window seat or bring an eye mask. Those who want the views are still entitled to them and shouldn't feel pressured to give in.
Long-haul they should stay closed...sorry Ben lol
Wrong!
I like to see beautiful snow-covered islands, major cities at night, and atolls from 30,000+ feet, otherwise, the shades remain closed, out of respect for others. I like how certain newer aircraft like 787 have the dimming windows, so you can still view without interrupting others. As far as others, if they wanna, can’t stop ‘em, so bring an eye mask, if it really bothers you.
I’m about to fly from Zurich to Sydney via Hong Kong with Cathay and the HKG to SYD flight that departs at 08.45 and lands at 20.50.
This is my preferred flight to SYD because Australia is a beautiful country to fly over, it avoids a long layer and two night flights and it’s good for beating the jet lag. As whilst my body might think it’s bedtime when we board I know that...
I’m about to fly from Zurich to Sydney via Hong Kong with Cathay and the HKG to SYD flight that departs at 08.45 and lands at 20.50.
This is my preferred flight to SYD because Australia is a beautiful country to fly over, it avoids a long layer and two night flights and it’s good for beating the jet lag. As whilst my body might think it’s bedtime when we board I know that if I can stay awake then by the time I get to my hotel I will be ready to crash. Therefore I want the window open as sunrise helps reset the body clock and did I mention the view. However after breakfast is served the crew will come around an ask for the blinds to be closed and I will then have to explain that I want to stay awake and that this is much harder in the pitch black. Plus anyone who sleeps for 7 hours on a flight that lands at 20.50 is either an idiot, nocturnal or likes jet lag.
My take is that the person by the window controls the blinds and unless the sun will be impacting others, most notable at sunrise and sunset, I keep it open.
It’s only a problem for me if I’m trying to watch something on a screen and the direct light blasts it. For sleeping am I the only one who always brings my own eye mask?
The eyemasks in the amenity kits are indeed not much use.
Tempurpedic ones (they may be other similar ones) at $30 are brillilantly effective - I have one permanently in my roll-aboard.
Of course not. If you want to control the shade, book a window seat. I don't understand why my need for daylight should be considered less "valid" than someone's wish to sleep - especially since sleeping can be done with a mask but I can hardly get the daylight by any other way than having the blind open. Never had a problem with this except on TK where they force the shades dark on A350/B787 which is why I no longer fly TK on longhaul.
I completely agree.
I have also experienced QR closing the blinds electronically on a B787 for DOH-BKK, leaving at 08:00 !
My decision is solely based on if it would be customary for sleeping hours.
For example, flying from US to Europe, absolutely closed during the night flight.
Flying from Europe to US, absolutely open as it’s a daytime flight and it allows for better adjustment to jet lag.
And finally, Daytime domestic flight, OPEN all the way as I refuse to accommodate screen zombies and enable their crack like addiction.
This makes no sense to me. Why do the shades need to be closed if it's dark outside?
I generally leave mine open at all times on domestic flights unless it’s a red eye and I know the sun will come up before landing.
Last year I flew BA in J LHR-LAX, in the forward mini-cabin and somewhere over Hudson Bay I realized I was the only one in the cabin with their windows open still. It was a daytime flight and I had no need or intent to sleep, but everyone else...
I generally leave mine open at all times on domestic flights unless it’s a red eye and I know the sun will come up before landing.
Last year I flew BA in J LHR-LAX, in the forward mini-cabin and somewhere over Hudson Bay I realized I was the only one in the cabin with their windows open still. It was a daytime flight and I had no need or intent to sleep, but everyone else was conked out so I closed it until we got over the Rockies and the scenery improved. I was a little surprised I hadn’t been asked to close it earlier - I would have.
I wouldn't have.
I wouldn't fake.
Anyone who gets on a flight and closes the window shade right away is a TOTAL MORON. It's a beautiful world - look out at it. People, put your phones away for a few minutes and appreciate the natural beauty of the earth!
I always imagine myself sipping on a drink while reading a magazine and occasionally taking a glance at the world outside the window, living the life. Instead I sometimes have to contemplate sitting in the dark like in a cave for the sake of other passengers and that strange preference of keeping the daylight out. Doing so takes out a lot of the enjoyment of flying for me. And that sinking feeling when you are...
I always imagine myself sipping on a drink while reading a magazine and occasionally taking a glance at the world outside the window, living the life. Instead I sometimes have to contemplate sitting in the dark like in a cave for the sake of other passengers and that strange preference of keeping the daylight out. Doing so takes out a lot of the enjoyment of flying for me. And that sinking feeling when you are not in a window seat and the shades start coming down with no control or say of the descent into darkness.
I like shades open during daytime hours, and it just occurred to me for my current long haul flight that one way to be more considerate is to pick seats on the side *opposite* the sun, (e.g., right side for Northern exposure traveling west). It at least avoids that “Death Ray” effect when the sun blasts everyone in the eyes
1) i am shocked to see 100 replies on this topic
2) i have always considered flight direction to sun location and thus my seat selection.
A Chance to watch a sunset is awesome (ideally i will only see a sunrise on a long haul flight landing, otherwise i dont want to be at an airport that early) so on a shorter flight i will sit on the side on the plane to...
1) i am shocked to see 100 replies on this topic
2) i have always considered flight direction to sun location and thus my seat selection.
A Chance to watch a sunset is awesome (ideally i will only see a sunrise on a long haul flight landing, otherwise i dont want to be at an airport that early) so on a shorter flight i will sit on the side on the plane to watch it, but keep the shade mostly closed otherwise due to next point…
The strong rays of a midday sun will make me hot (and nauseous)….i also prefer aisle room, so i book opposite side of the plane from the sun.
Napping is an incorrect and disgusting habit, and it should not be encouraged or accommodated. Daytime domestic flight = windows open. Do these freaks keep their curtains closed at home?
Always close your shades at all time except take off and landing. It’s entirely selfish to keep them open. You don’t know everyone else’s schedule and one open window affects multiple people in multiple rows vs the one person that wants them open. Not to mention that many screens that people use to work, play or avoid flight anxiety are impossible to see with glare.
Right. So the considerate, not selfish thing is for everyone to do what you want, whereas you don't need to be considerate towards anyone else's needs. Makes perfect sense.
Ridiculous expectation. If you need daytime naps bring an eyeshade, blankie and binky.
Also note that when flying from Phoenix or Vegas in the summer it's critical to keep them closed on the ground
The problem is when they're not aligned and it's not clear who has the window
I don't care what people think of me. I, and I alone, will decide on whether the window shade is up, down, part-way open, or part-way closed. That is one of my perks, and not to mention my god-given right, as the person who chose to sit in the window seat.
Absolutely in the "shades open" camp. I love watching the world go by from 35.000 feet. On a daytime flight, open shades it is. If you want to sleep that's fine, that's what eye masks are for.
Cabin attendants asking everyone to close the shades (or even worse, making that decision for everyone on the 787) on a daytime flight always give me the vibe of "let's put everyone to sleep so we'll have an easy shift". Possibly unfair, but that is the vibe it gives me.
“He who pays the piper chooses the tune”.
If anyone is unsure what is meant by that ancient phrase, please ask, yes.
Please remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question …. only stupid answers!
AND I'M SURE YOU'LL HAVE ONE, NO!?!
Absolutely EskimoBot, I am always willing to help those less fortunate than myself.
Please note, I do not find it necessary to resort to shouting my response at you EskimoBot. It is considered to be so uncouth don’t you know? Shouting at someone is almost guaranteed to have much less of an impact than a few choice words don’t you know?
There you have it EskimoBot, my considered answer to your rather obvious question,...
Absolutely EskimoBot, I am always willing to help those less fortunate than myself.
Please note, I do not find it necessary to resort to shouting my response at you EskimoBot. It is considered to be so uncouth don’t you know? Shouting at someone is almost guaranteed to have much less of an impact than a few choice words don’t you know?
There you have it EskimoBot, my considered answer to your rather obvious question, yes? Please file it in your “I must try much harder” folder. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you wish, I will not think them to be stupid, however, I really cannot speak for anyone else, don’t you know?
SILENCE, YOU FLAGRANT LOBSTERBACK BUFFOON!
Ben, must be loving the additional clicks that your childish comments are causing EskimoBot. Do you have no idea how ridiculous your posts are? Additionally, how simple minded you are proving yourself to be, yes?
EskimoBot, your posts which are directed towards me, are much in the same manner of all those ‘Nigerian Princes’, who want to deposit thousands of pounds into one’s bank account. One can string them along for days while insisting upon...
Ben, must be loving the additional clicks that your childish comments are causing EskimoBot. Do you have no idea how ridiculous your posts are? Additionally, how simple minded you are proving yourself to be, yes?
EskimoBot, your posts which are directed towards me, are much in the same manner of all those ‘Nigerian Princes’, who want to deposit thousands of pounds into one’s bank account. One can string them along for days while insisting upon their full family history, etc. Is that what you are trying to do with me EskimoBot?
QUIET! YOU FOOL!
EskimoBot, your childish posts from your burner phone, tell us more about your penury and fantasies than you could ever imagine. Have you ever set foot on an aircraft that wasn’t a Federal Government prisoner movement flight? What are they really like? Care to write a review? Ben would be very happy to miss that flight experience …. :-)
Cmon fake, you can trigger him more than this.
EskimoBot, it is pointless trying to blame that your posts are being cloned. In truth nobody would waste their time posting under your login. There is simply nothing of value to be gained by such a practice.
I generally keep my window open on daytime flights. The view, especially over the western US or Greenland, is worth it! If someone asks though, I’ll close it.
I usually give in before the flight attendants or a fellow passenger ask :). I'm as passive as you are Ben.
Domestic flights shades however I want them to be. Long haul I try to be sensitive to let people sleep through the middle of the flight and keep in mind time zones (both departing and arriving) but if I’m trying to adjust circadian rhythm I’ll often open my window shade a little bit at a time to get some natural light if I’m awake and it aligns with the time zone I’m traveling to. Gradually opening over an hour or so minimizes the disruption to others I think
Totally respect your opinion, and on most issues I tend to agree or see your point of view, but not on this one.
Let me start by saying, for short haul or even medium haul flights (anything under six hours / domestic US flights) I think you have valid points, but long haul, unless you’re flying over something spectacular like Greenland, please do not be that one person that ruins an entire dark cabin...
Totally respect your opinion, and on most issues I tend to agree or see your point of view, but not on this one.
Let me start by saying, for short haul or even medium haul flights (anything under six hours / domestic US flights) I think you have valid points, but long haul, unless you’re flying over something spectacular like Greenland, please do not be that one person that ruins an entire dark cabin for everyone.
Years ago, will never forget flying nine hours in Lufthansa business class Munich-USA. Had connected from an overnight flight from the middle east that left at 2am and landed in Munich at 6am and got very poor rest…all I wanted to do on that Lufthansa flight was sleep, and every single person in the 40-50 seat J cabin had their window closed…except the one woman across the aisle from me…that blinding sunlight was like two lasers piercing into my eyes, I swear it almost gave me a migraine. I know what others will say - use an eye mask - which I did. But I find them uncomfortable and it felt so unnecessarily inconsiderate of her to change the dynamics of the cabin environment for 40 people just so she could stare at the Atlantic Ocean…for six hours…
again, short-medium haul, I get it, but long haul…you never know where people are coming from, when they started their day, and people usually pay to sit in J to rest and acclimate to combat jet lag, so unless you’re flying over some spectacular arctic landscape (in which case I do get it), please don’t be that one person that ruins a restful environment for hours on end…
You were on a daytime flight, of course some people will choose to open blinds. Daylight is absolutely crucial to fighting jetlag on these westbound TATLs. If you expect others to suffer ten hours in darkness because you find eye masks uncomfortable, you're the inconsiderate one.
It isn’t about expecting other to “suffer” because I find eye masks uncomfortable; I used an eye mask on the flight and didn’t say a peep. It’s about one person not considering the fact that their singular choice changed the environment for 40-50 passengers in that cabin. That is, be definition, inconsiderate as she was the only one with a window open. And totally disagree with your daylight theory being crucial to fight jet lag;...
It isn’t about expecting other to “suffer” because I find eye masks uncomfortable; I used an eye mask on the flight and didn’t say a peep. It’s about one person not considering the fact that their singular choice changed the environment for 40-50 passengers in that cabin. That is, be definition, inconsiderate as she was the only one with a window open. And totally disagree with your daylight theory being crucial to fight jet lag; the flight left Munich at 9am. It was 3am on the east coast. So quite the opposite; darkness is crucial to fighting jet lag to mimic the time zone of the city we were flying to. It’s not normal to stay awake 3am until evening. Sleeping half the flight, waking up at 9am NYC time for a noon arrival helps combat jet lag to allow you to then stay awake when you land until a normal bedtime. I travel to Europe just about every month for work, trust me I have tried every theory.
“If you expect others to suffer ten hours in darkness because you find eye masks uncomfortable, you're the inconsiderate one.” You’re missing the point. Yes I used an eye mask instead of asking her to close the window - I respected her choice. I didn’t ask her to “suffer” in darkness. What I identified is the inconsiderateness of her singular decision to single handedly alter the cabin environment for 40-50 passengers who paid a premium...
“If you expect others to suffer ten hours in darkness because you find eye masks uncomfortable, you're the inconsiderate one.” You’re missing the point. Yes I used an eye mask instead of asking her to close the window - I respected her choice. I didn’t ask her to “suffer” in darkness. What I identified is the inconsiderateness of her singular decision to single handedly alter the cabin environment for 40-50 passengers who paid a premium to sit in business class to rest on their trip - she was literally the only person with a window-shade up.
Furthermore, been traveling to Europe for work on a monthly basis for years, and couldn’t disagree with you more about light being crucial to fight jet lag. Quite the contrary. The flight left Munich at 9am. That’s 3am New York time. It is not normal or natural to be awake staring at the sun from 3am until a normal bedtime. What is appropriate, and does help jet lag, is to mimic the arrival/destination time zone, and sleep the first half of the flight, wake up at 9am New York time, work for a few hours, land at noon, and feel well rested to then get through the rest of the day without needing a nap and going to bed at a normal bedtime. Trust me, I have worked back and forth between Europe and the states since the 90’s, I have tried every method and you have a tough sell telling me it’s helpful to fight jet lag to have nine hours of daylight on a 9am departure from Europe when it’s 2am in Chicago or 3am in New York.
I’m with you. The expectation should be for night flights but not day. There’s nothing intrinsically more important about Person A wanting to sleep at 11am vs Person B wanting to stay awake.
It is absolutely rude to keep your shade open on a long flight. How would you like it if you were a ER doctor that worked overnight shifts saving lives and therefore needed to sleep during the day, but some one randomly shines a bright light on you the entire time you try to sleep? Please stop doing this.
Sorry, I could not disagree more. I work in a high stress job overnight as well. But I would never be so selfish to expect people to sit in the dark during the day, just because of me and my job.
It is my choice that I have this job. If I want to sleep during the day, I put a eyeshades on and my noises canceling head phones.
It's my problem so I find a solution, not make my problem other people's problem.
You aren't forced to sit in the dark. That's what the overhead lights are for.
@Gene
Try measuring the light when shades open, and when overhead lights are on.
Huge difference.
I have yet to find overhead/"reading" lights which provide anything like enough light to comfortably read from paper (I read books, newspapers, and magazines)
@Gene - That's what eye masks are for. You are on public transportation, the world doesn't revolve around you. Why should everyone have their body clock disrupted on a daytime flight just because of your selfish needs?
No, that's what the window shades are for. Yes, I ALWAYS sit by the window (or am with my spouse who also detests the shades being open).
We will never agree on this subject, so...
But how about an ER doctor who works days and therefore needs to keep awake during days off in order not to have sleep messed up the next night which will affect alertness the following day?
I'm sure they can obtain some Ambien easily.
Literally the ange of the sun matters. The other day I was blinded by the sun from 4 rows away. There was no way i could sit at all without a blindfold
I politely asked another passenger to adjust the shade. He did.
Had he not, I would’ve had to blindfold myself to protect from the particular orientation of the sun.