With the topic of guns in the US being as divisive of an issue as ever, we’re at a point where some companies are finally taking a stand on the NRA. A couple of days ago I wrote about how Alamo, Avis, Enterprise, Hertz, and National pulled their discounts for NRA members. It’s tough to say whether they were actually taking a stand here, or just trying to remain neutral on this divisive topic.
https://twitter.com/Hertz/status/967132184439066626?
The problem for companies is that they think they’re staying neutral by withdrawing support, though in reality by taking away something that they used to offer they’re taking a stand, whether they intend to or not.
As you might expect, there’s a lot of pressure on social media from some, demanding that companies that associate with the NRA pull their support. Conversely, there are plenty of NRA supporters threatening to boycott companies that pull their support for the NRA. If we’re being honest, the reality is that very little of this protesting of companies on either side lasts very long, especially when you see a situation where virtually all companies make a decision like this. Will NRA supporters suddenly stop renting cars, and will those opposed to the NRA start renting cars just to support companies for their decisions? It’s unlikely.
The travel industry taking some sort of a stand on the NRA isn’t limited to car rental companies — both Delta and United have pulled discounts for those traveling to NRA conferences. They used to offer these discounts, presumably not because they were strong supporters of the NRA, but rather because this was a decision that they hoped got them volume business, and they didn’t think doing so would be controversial.
Delta is reaching out to the NRA to let them know we will be ending their contract for discounted rates through our group travel program. We will be requesting that the NRA remove our information from their website.
— Delta (@Delta) February 24, 2018
With two airlines having withdrawn support for the NRA, it has led to similar strong feelings on both sides. Most companies have simply stated that they’re withdrawing support for the NRA, but haven’t issued detailed statements sharing their feelings. Not Delta, though. Delta has issued the following statement regarding their decision, which is surprising, in a way:
Delta is reaching out to the National Rifle Association to let it know that the airline will be ending its contract for discounted fares for travel to the association’s annual meeting through Delta’s group travel program. The company will request that the NRA remove Delta’s information from its meeting website.
Delta’s decision reflects the airline’s neutral status in the current national debate over gun control amid recent school shootings. Out of respect for our customers and employees on both sides, Delta has taken this action to refrain from entering this debate and focus on its business. Delta continues to support the 2nd Amendment.
This is not the first time Delta has withdrawn support over a politically and emotionally charged issue. Last year, Delta withdrew its sponsorship of a theater that staged a graphic interpretation of “Julius Caesar” depicting the assassination of President Trump. Delta supports all of its customers but will not support organizations on any side of any highly charged political issue that divides our nation.
Delta is saying that they have a neutral stance in the national debate over gun control, and that they support the 2nd Amendment. The reason that I find the decision to publish this interesting is because I think they’re only going to annoy both sides with a statement like this. On one side of the debate you have people saying this:
https://twitter.com/sonicdeath/status/967826101241171968
And on the other side you have people saying this:
Laughable…how is your termination action against @NRA "neutral" and still have relationships with other political organizations? Oh, they are left/"progressive" that truly fit @Delta 's vision. Smdh…
— Jeff McCormack (@jeffmc_cormack) February 25, 2018
Overall I think those against the NRA are going to be most put off by this statement. To me there’s a difference between staying out of something and saying that you have a neutral stance on a topic. Then again, when companies withdraw support in order to stay neutral, they’re ultimately hurting the organization in question, so I guess the end result is a positive for those opposed to the NRA.
What do you make of Delta’s statement on this matter?
Carter wrote: "I am a gun owner, and former NRA member, and I realized long ago that they didn’t have my interests at heart."
What exactly were/are your "interests", Carter?
You know: the ones the 5,000,000+ millions members of the National Rifle Association didn't have in their collective "heart(s)".
"They vaccinate against any mature, logical conversation
by peddling a narrative that any common sense gun law is the beginning of a slippery slope which...
Carter wrote: "I am a gun owner, and former NRA member, and I realized long ago that they didn’t have my interests at heart."
What exactly were/are your "interests", Carter?
You know: the ones the 5,000,000+ millions members of the National Rifle Association didn't have in their collective "heart(s)".
"They vaccinate against any mature, logical conversation
by peddling a narrative that any common sense gun law is the beginning of a slippery slope which ends with all of our rights being
taken away."
I believe this "tells the tale" best:
Illustrated Guide to Gun Control
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3667cc3dbe0149d7f608a67578d7fafe3ce377fd890084a7b2960beaa6b6b300.png
"Good riddance to them."
Good riddance to such disingenuous "NRA members" as you.
To Mark (who posted February 26, 2018 at 4:25 pm):
Where is this information available to verify?
@AdamW
"I love how you can pick out the right wingers from specific words that the Trump family and Fox News use over and over. Yes, I’m talking to @Erick and your “nothingburger!” Have you ever had an individual thought?"
An article title from the ultra-liberal Esquire magazine in April 2016:
"The Great Hillary Email Nothingburger is Still on the Grill, and It's Certainly Overcooked"
Do you ever do any actual reasoning, using,...
@AdamW
"I love how you can pick out the right wingers from specific words that the Trump family and Fox News use over and over. Yes, I’m talking to @Erick and your “nothingburger!” Have you ever had an individual thought?"
An article title from the ultra-liberal Esquire magazine in April 2016:
"The Great Hillary Email Nothingburger is Still on the Grill, and It's Certainly Overcooked"
Do you ever do any actual reasoning, using, you know, facts and logic. Or do you just stick to ad hominem slurs?
Good for you Delta....I am flying soon and I am happy I chose Delta as my method of travel.
I love how you can pick out the right wingers from specific words that the Trump family and Fox News use over and over. Yes, I’m talking to @Erick and your “nothingburger!” Have you ever had an individual thought?
Delta should be boycotted. They have made a political statement on behalf of the Democrat Party. Republicans and others that support the 2nd Amendment and others that thing that deranged and evil people are the problem, rather than the tools they use, should boycott Delta and any other company that joins this attack on American freedom.
Perhaps I can shed a little light on Delta's neutrality claim with regards to the NRA receiving discount group travel benefits. These are discounts based on corporate events and are given to hundreds of corporations and organizations. Delta is hardly "Neutral" and tends to favor left of center groups and organizations to receive discounted group travel.
Here are a few of the groups that Delta sees as neutral and therefore worthy of their support...
Perhaps I can shed a little light on Delta's neutrality claim with regards to the NRA receiving discount group travel benefits. These are discounts based on corporate events and are given to hundreds of corporations and organizations. Delta is hardly "Neutral" and tends to favor left of center groups and organizations to receive discounted group travel.
Here are a few of the groups that Delta sees as neutral and therefore worthy of their support through discounts:
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Planned Parenthood
Brady Campaign
Consortium of Higher Education LGBT Resource Professionals
National Center for Transgender Equality
Violence Policy Center
Nice meltdown, Bobert
@snic "I’m a proud progressive and liberal, and contribute to progressive causes. But I never, ever tell anyone what to do, say, or think."
Good for you !
If only your fellow progressives were the same. But many of them are not. The news is full of progressive bullying:
Google: "Arrest Climate-Change Deniers"
"Man-made climate change happens. Man-made climate change kills a lot of people. It's going to kill a lot more. We...
@snic "I’m a proud progressive and liberal, and contribute to progressive causes. But I never, ever tell anyone what to do, say, or think."
Good for you !
If only your fellow progressives were the same. But many of them are not. The news is full of progressive bullying:
Google: "Arrest Climate-Change Deniers"
"Man-made climate change happens. Man-made climate change kills a lot of people. It's going to kill a lot more. We have laws on the books to punish anyone whose lies contribute to people's deaths. It's time to punish the climate-change liar...Those malcontents must be punished and stopped."
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Google: "Canadians Could Face Hate Crimes Over Using The Wrong Gender Pronouns"
excerpt: "Canada passed a law Thursday making it illegal to use the wrong gender pronouns. Critics say that Canadians who do not subscribe to progressive gender theory could be accused of hate crimes, jailed, fined, and made to take anti-bias training.
Canada’s Senate passed Bill C-16, which puts “gender identity” and “gender expression” into both the country’s Human Rights Code, as well as the hate crime category of its Criminal Code by a vote of 67-11, according to LifeSiteNews.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Google: "West Virginia University: Calling Someone The ‘Wrong’ Prounoun Is A Title IX Violation"
"Referring to someone by the “wrong” gender pronoun is a violation of federal anti-discrimination law, according to West Virginia University’s Title IX office.
The school offers a handy guide on “Proper prounoun usage” that explains how to swap out pronouns such as he, him and his for gender neutral prounouns such as “ve,” “ver” and “vis.”
The guide offers a plethora of pronoun choices for WVU students and employees to use, including the “Spivak” pronoun “Ey.” The sentence “His eyes gleam,” the guide explains, becomes “eir eyes gleam” when using Spivak pronouns."
“WVU’s Office of Equity Assurance investigates any Title IX related incidents reported to the University,” the university website promises."
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All of which is mild indeed, compared to this:
Google: Wikipedia: "2017 Congressional baseball shooting"
"On June 14, 2017, in Alexandria, Virginia, Republican member of Congress and House Majority Whip Steve Scalise of Louisiana was shot while practicing for the annual Congressional Baseball Game for Charity, scheduled for the following day."
"A ten-minute shootout ensued between the shooter—James Hodgkinson of Belleville, Illinois, a left-wing activist—and officers from the Capitol and Alexandria Police. Officers shot Hodgkinson, who died from his wounds later that day at the George Washington University Hospital. Scalise and Mika were taken to nearby hospitals, where they underwent surgery."
"On May 22, 2017, Hodgkinson wrote "Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co." above his repost of a Change.org petition demanding "the legal removal" of Trump and Vice President Mike Pence for "treason". He belonged to numerous political Facebook groups, including those named "Terminate the Republican Party," "The Road To Hell Is Paved With Republicans," and "Donald Trump is not my President."
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"Terminate the Republican Party"... I rest my case. ;)
I guess the hillbillies will have to find another airline.
THANK YOU DELTA!!!
Ironically, between flight #s 1288 (1996), 1141 (1988), 191 (1985) etc, plus Comair flight 5191 and Northwest flight 255 among others, Delta and its partners have been directly responsible for the deaths of far more Americans than the NRA.
There are no responsible gun owners, just ones who have gotten lucky so far
You need comment Like/Unlike buttons on this!
As a non-American (ie - citizen of another country) it is amazing to read that "Americans" don't realize how much other countries are concerned about the"gun-toting" culture of the USA!
Nuts walking around with legal concealed weapons? Ye gods!
News flash - the last time you were invaded was over a century ago! The need for the second amendment is history. Gun toting is just a brunch of boys with self-esteem problems.
Time to ditch the Second amendment!
Juts like here, @Delta is being killed on twitter
Let's not quible over delta's rationale. It someow made the right decision. The NRA and its loyalists are perfectly willing to continue sacrificing the lives of your children on their altar to the second amendment.
"Reach out" is a tag line created 39 years ago by the (defunct) ad agency N.W. Ayer for AT&T. We do not "reach out" to anyone, we communicate. What a stupid expression. About time to stop using it, Delta.
If one is to be neutral, one must be non-political 100% of the time. Not sure that is what is happening here, but that is what it should be. Would love to see people who are paid the same as a 1%-er and dress up as other people and pretend to be someone else for a living be neutral (i.e. hollywood). They exist and are paid only to entertain us and they should remember that....
If one is to be neutral, one must be non-political 100% of the time. Not sure that is what is happening here, but that is what it should be. Would love to see people who are paid the same as a 1%-er and dress up as other people and pretend to be someone else for a living be neutral (i.e. hollywood). They exist and are paid only to entertain us and they should remember that. We have the power to turn them off at any time. And they are the people who glorify violence and make tens of millions doing it.
I absolutely agree with the earlier comment “Honestly, I think the United States has been so insulated from the horrors of war that we have no appreciation for how incredibly devastating it is to the young, the old, and everyone in between. “War is Hell” is no exaggeration.”
@ Robert Hanson
Viewing this from afar, as a cynic, I contend, it probably would have been better for all concerned if the British had stayed. There would be no 2nd. Amendment, definitely no NRA, possibly no Delta. You could all put up with BA, EasyJet, Ryanair,Flybe. Life would be so much more settled and liveable.
I have decided to stay neutral on this topic. Therefore my comment has reached its conclusion.
My AR-15 self identifies as a musket.
@Robert Hanson: "And many other people who are not NRA members, and don’t own a gun, are quite sensitized to the current “progressive” campaign to tell every one what to do, what to say, what pronouns to use, and even what to think."
Funny how this works. I'm a proud progressive and liberal, and contribute to progressive causes. But I never, ever tell anyone what to do, say, or think. I guess the fact that...
@Robert Hanson: "And many other people who are not NRA members, and don’t own a gun, are quite sensitized to the current “progressive” campaign to tell every one what to do, what to say, what pronouns to use, and even what to think."
Funny how this works. I'm a proud progressive and liberal, and contribute to progressive causes. But I never, ever tell anyone what to do, say, or think. I guess the fact that many of us who object to various conservative principles and practices are loud in their objections to your way of thinking "sensitizes" you. Maybe you got all butt-hurt and that resulted in Trump's election, but all that means is that we weren't loud enough. The audience is not actually you Trumpies, but the huge number of people who agree with us but don't vote.
Looks like the NRA's annual meeting is in early May so some may have already booked using the Delta discount code but some may not have book their flight yet.
The meeting is in Dallas so it much easier for most people to fly American or Southwest unless they are from a DL hub, like ATL or SLC or DTW.
NRAA folks, why not book aa flight on AAmerican AAirlines for the aanuaal meeting in Daallaas soon?
Tear Down That Wall!: "Many Delta customers I know are not on board with Delta’s open support and endorsing LGBT community, including flying the rainbow pride flag in front of its headquarters, and it is certainly a divisive topic yet Delta fervently supports, which is their right"
Precisely. It's Delta's right to make any damn political statement they please. If you can't stomach their statements, don't fly Delta.
Frankly, if all the gun nuts want...
Tear Down That Wall!: "Many Delta customers I know are not on board with Delta’s open support and endorsing LGBT community, including flying the rainbow pride flag in front of its headquarters, and it is certainly a divisive topic yet Delta fervently supports, which is their right"
Precisely. It's Delta's right to make any damn political statement they please. If you can't stomach their statements, don't fly Delta.
Frankly, if all the gun nuts want to boycott Delta, I say good-by and good riddance. Please stay home and keep your dangerous penis extenders there with you.
Why are some people so obsessed about gun owner’s penises? Is there some sort of underlying sexual urge there? Would you like me to expose my weapon so you can put your lips on my barrel?
@Glenn T so you don’t believe in free speech or the right to assemble got you. Groups of concerned American should be allowed to organize and support candidates that they like. I love when amendments only apply when they serve your best interest. For the record all donations seek influence. You give money to candidates who support your beliefs.
The use of the term "reaching out" by Delta is an insult to all Americans.
The killer at the school reached out to the students with a gun. The judge is giving the killer an enhancement by providing a free prison cell. Delta is reaching out by denying you boarding because of overbooking.
Stop this happy talk, like "reaching out" and "enhancement".
Am not a gun owner and the psychotic 19 year old that murdered could have gotten a gun if the NRA never existed; at what point did Delta decide to not wanting to be involved in "divisive" issues, how about gay rights? Many Delta customers I know are not on board with Delta's open support and endorsing LGBT community, including flying the rainbow pride flag in front of its headquarters, and it is certainly a...
Am not a gun owner and the psychotic 19 year old that murdered could have gotten a gun if the NRA never existed; at what point did Delta decide to not wanting to be involved in "divisive" issues, how about gay rights? Many Delta customers I know are not on board with Delta's open support and endorsing LGBT community, including flying the rainbow pride flag in front of its headquarters, and it is certainly a divisive topic yet Delta fervently supports, which is their right:
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/where-we-fly/destinations/lesbian-and-gay-travel.html (Plus discounts offered by Delta)
Hypocrisy much?
Could start on making a point regarding Delta should ban discounts to Catholics due to the church opposing abortion (would be nonsense) yet hopefully you get my point; don't make this a social issue and further divide our divided country, please.
Let's keep the dialogue going, is actually refreshing change from the "champagnes are being changed" on certain Asian carriers conversation....
@Mark Well played sir.
@Glenn T so would you agree to ban funding from all special interest groups...IE the ACLU, planned parenthood etc. Seems really unfair to just say the NRA can’t lobby and donate but other organizations. Almost like it violates their first amendment rights as well. But seeing as you are so against the 2nd amendment...
yes, ban all donations seeking influence.
Sad, but, we should expect more such tragedies (e.g., Parkland) simply because so many people are demanding actions that will change absolutely nothing....
While we’re at it, let’s blame Über! One of their drivers took this lunatic to the school. That’ll fix everything...
@Bails369: a lot of Americans feel the same way.
I’ve used Enterprise in the past (and had really good service) but I had no idea that the company I was using gave discounts to folk who oppose the 2nd amendment. (Which is such a perverse this to do it is very difficult to fathom.) They should have informed their customers about their actions, affording them the freedom to make an informed decision whether to do business with them ….. or not.
I've used Enterprise in the past (and had really good service) but I had no idea that the company I was using gave discounts to folk who love weaponry. (Which is such a perverse this to do it is very difficult to fathom.) They should have informed their customers about their actions, affording them the freedom to make an informed decision whether to do business with them ..... or not.
Given that the logistics of repealing the 2nd Amendment (and it should be; it's an anachronism causing more harm than good) are difficult, another approach is needed. Maybe it would take a judge to spell out what it means these days, not what gun nuts think it means, or want it to mean. A further good idea would be ban anyone in government from receiving cash 'donations' from the NRA, thereby making that organisation irrelevant...
Given that the logistics of repealing the 2nd Amendment (and it should be; it's an anachronism causing more harm than good) are difficult, another approach is needed. Maybe it would take a judge to spell out what it means these days, not what gun nuts think it means, or want it to mean. A further good idea would be ban anyone in government from receiving cash 'donations' from the NRA, thereby making that organisation irrelevant to lawmakers. Will it take a wholesale massacre of a sitting Congress (as in the fictional 'The Handmaids Tale') to stir these self-serving seat-warmers into action?
Delta, and United, and the rental car companies are all acting just plain stupid! Not one NRA member has been involved with any school shooting!! It's like saying the car companies are to blame for drunk driving. Folks, Its the person not the inanimate object that's to blame.
I come to OMAAT for the travel news, but stay for the politics! :)
Doubtful that many NRA members even knew about these discounts.
Also, there's this from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution: "Delta severs ties with NRA, risking lucrative state tax break" https://www.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/delta-severs-ties-with-nra-risking-lucrative-state-tax-break/lI5fZXqrBvofT04wPL76YL/
@Bails369 - "I wonder whether Americans are aware that people that live in countries where guns aren’t permitted are quite concerned whenever they travel to America."
Probably not. And those who ARE likely don't give a damn. And those who AREN'T likely wouldn't give a damn if they were.
Ultimately, neither the airlines nor the rental car companies are harming an organization. They are causing existing or potential individual customers to pay more for their services.
I agree with this. Liberals are to blame for trumps election. No sarcasm.
Lost in all of this brouhaha is the actual thing that Delta is ending. They are not ending an across the board NRA discount on all flights. They're not telling NRA members that they are not welcome on Delta planes. They are only ending a (10%?) discount for "group travel to NRA conventions". This was no doubt a very small profit generator for Delta. No surprise then that Delta thought this seldom used discount wasn't...
Lost in all of this brouhaha is the actual thing that Delta is ending. They are not ending an across the board NRA discount on all flights. They're not telling NRA members that they are not welcome on Delta planes. They are only ending a (10%?) discount for "group travel to NRA conventions". This was no doubt a very small profit generator for Delta. No surprise then that Delta thought this seldom used discount wasn't worth the negative pressure from "progressive" (sic) activists.
What I'm guessing they failed to think thru are the unintended consequences of this announcement. While the official membership of the NRA is only around 5 million, the fact is that at least 30% of all US households are gun owners. And many other people who are not NRA members, and don't own a gun, are quite sensitized to the current "progressive" campaign to tell every one what to do, what to say, what pronouns to use, and even what to think. Being fed up with this is one of the reasons Trump got elected IMHO. :)
The original Delta tweet read as a total capitulation to pressure from these "progressive" activists. No wonder they had to walk it back, and at that point it was too late to do so gracefully.
It's times like these that remind me what a cesspit the US truly is! A real shame given how it's such a beautiful country.
Why Delta or any other company thought it necessary to explain their decision baffles me. But then again I’m easily baffled.
They should have just let their original statement stand. Just because they received a lot of emails and tweets regarding their decision doesn’t mean they have to further explain it. By trying to explain their position, which they did a poor job of in my opinion, they accomplished nothing but give an audience...
Why Delta or any other company thought it necessary to explain their decision baffles me. But then again I’m easily baffled.
They should have just let their original statement stand. Just because they received a lot of emails and tweets regarding their decision doesn’t mean they have to further explain it. By trying to explain their position, which they did a poor job of in my opinion, they accomplished nothing but give an audience to both sides.
They should have left well enough alone.
Why did these companies give discounts to the NRA in the first place? Discounts seemed to be much better than other organizations like AAA, and AAA is much less polarizing, though I suppose they do lobby for certain things ... like road safety rather than lawlessness.
I wonder whether Americans are aware that people that live in countries where guns aren't permitted are quite concerned whenever they travel to America. Just the thought that pretty much anyone can own and use a handgun , on the pretence that it may be needed in the case of civil breakdown or invasion is most disconcerting.
“Will NRA supporters suddenly stop renting cars, and will those opposed to the NRA start renting cars just to support companies for their decisions? It’s unlikely.”
You forgot one: Will those who opposed to the NRA try to avoid renting cars from companies who offer NRA discounts? Probably.
I am SO proud of these companies taking a stand.
Again, thank you Lucky for a valiant effort to offer a balanced view on a deeply emotional issue.
I agree, though, that, withdrawing from an alliance is behavior that speaks of a new non-support. The NRA, agree, or disagree with what they do and say, has not changed its stance for the last 20 years, but the Media cluster seems to see this as a good opportunity to push its agenda, which seems to...
Again, thank you Lucky for a valiant effort to offer a balanced view on a deeply emotional issue.
I agree, though, that, withdrawing from an alliance is behavior that speaks of a new non-support. The NRA, agree, or disagree with what they do and say, has not changed its stance for the last 20 years, but the Media cluster seems to see this as a good opportunity to push its agenda, which seems to be to destroy the NRA, and somehow convince corporate America that the majority of the American public (consumers) disagrees with the NRA. This is actually not statistically true. The NRA is the same NRA with which all these companies entered into (presumably mutually beneficial) agreements. Knee jerk decisions seem to come back to haunt everyone,ergo, the marketing geniuses have decided to do this "partial backtrack."
"The founding fathers supported slavery"
Actually: NO...
The most important Founding Fathers did not support slavery. However, the only way to win their Freedom from rule by the British Monarchy was to fight for it. Defeating the much larger and wealthier British Empire was a feat that seemed nearly impossible at the time. The only plausible way to win was to have all of the original 13 colonies working together.
Several of the Southern...
"The founding fathers supported slavery"
Actually: NO...
The most important Founding Fathers did not support slavery. However, the only way to win their Freedom from rule by the British Monarchy was to fight for it. Defeating the much larger and wealthier British Empire was a feat that seemed nearly impossible at the time. The only plausible way to win was to have all of the original 13 colonies working together.
Several of the Southern colonies depended on slavery, and would not have joined the fight for Independence if that was forbidden by the Northern colonies. In which case, the British would have defeated the Northern colonies, and all of the colonies would have still been ruled by the British Monarch. Then guess what? The British had no problem with slavery, so slavery would have still gone on. As Franklin famously said: "We must all hang together, or we shall hang separately."
The only option for the major Founding Fathers like Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams was to write the Declaration of Independence, including this seminal phrase: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
(Note: Seminal means "containing or contributing the seeds of later development").
They didn't write 'all white men', they very consciously wrote "all men" ( and please realize that in that time the English phrase 'men' was shorthand for 'mankind', which was inclusive of both males and females}. They set the stage for a future where slavery was abolished, which I imagine they anticipated would come much sooner than it did.
Many people misunderstand the part where slaves were counted as 3/5 of a non slave. The reasoning is not racist, it has to do with proportional representation and taxation based on the census.
From Wikipedia:
"The Convention had unanimously accepted the principle that representation in the House of Representatives would be in proportion to the relative state populations. However, since slaves could not vote, leaders in slave states would thus have the benefit of increased representation in the House and the Electoral College. Delegates opposed to slavery proposed that only free inhabitants of each state be counted for apportionment purposes, while delegates supportive of slavery, on the other hand, opposed the proposal, wanting slaves to count in their actual numbers. The compromise that was finally agreed upon—of counting "all other persons" as only three-fifths of their actual numbers—reduced the representation of the slave states relative to the original proposals, but improved it over the Northern position."
Please notice the phrase "Delegates opposed to slavery". Even though no nation up to that time had outlawed slavery, many delegates to the original 1787 United States Constitutional Convention were already strongly opposed to it. Their expectation was that it would eventually be outlawed. I'm sure they would have been saddened had they known how long it would take for this change to take place. But they were clearly setting the stage for this to occur in the future.
@Cole I doubt seriously that @Ray had the slightest idea of what it takes to repeal an amendment. For that matter, it's doubtful @Lucky knew either.
Now David Hogg can fly Delta when he moves to Puerto Rico.
A neutral position would be letting all contracts for discounted fares with nonprofits expire.
I hate that EVERYTHING is becoming political.
"Delta’s decision reflects the airline’s neutral status in the current national debate over gun control"
How can you have a 'neutral status' on this issue. Is it so you can waffle back and forth and sit on the fence while you watch to see from where the wind blows? While I support the 2nd amendment, I'm not an NRA member and I don't own a gun, but NRA members have done nothing wrong and are being singled out for political opportunity. This is just stupid.
Delta should have keep out of it,,
In a week no one will care, except the NRA Members will remember, DELTA..
@SadStateofourCountry
You are exactly the reason we have a second amendment.
I'm fine with Delta's decision to withdraw the contract from the NRA.
But I'm still not sure how Delta can claim to stay neutral on controversial topics. They celebrated the Supreme Court decision to allow gay marriage at a time when half the country opposed it. And they still support Planned Parenthood which half the country opposes.
The only difference I see is that the NRA opposition had the entire news media behind them.
If Delta wanted a WIN-WIN, they would declare to never allow members of the FBI or Broward Police Department to ever fly their airline ... unless they pay 3 times the going rate, due to their utter and total incompetence on full display in this horrible situation.
... that, I think, we can all agree on ...
@Ray The second amendment will never be repealed. Take a look at the process it takes to repeal/ratify an amendment. 3/4 of all states would have to ratify a new amendment to repeal a current amendment. That will never happen on any topic, let alone on gun control.
They are all chicken - shits...Delta, Alamo and all the rest
It’s time we start talking about repealing the 2nd amendment. The founding fathers supported slavery, and we got rid of that. The founding fathers weren’t perfect and surely made many mistakes, let’s fix he mistake of the 2nd amendment.
I am a gun owner, and former NRA member, and I realized long ago that they didn't have my interests at heart. Their constant strawmanning and fearmongering because too much past a certain point. They vaccinate against any mature, logical conversation by peddling a narrative that any common sense gun law is the beginning of a slippery slope which ends with all of our rights being taken away. Good riddance to them.
It's no longer okay to work 40 hours a week, raise your kids or simply recharge by relaxing when you're not working, and get the recommended amount of sleep.
If you do only that, you support murdering children or support ripping apart the constitution, you support racism or you support the downfall of democracy, you tolerate bigotry against LGBT or you spit in God's face for tolerating LGBT. --- and all your friends and family...
It's no longer okay to work 40 hours a week, raise your kids or simply recharge by relaxing when you're not working, and get the recommended amount of sleep.
If you do only that, you support murdering children or support ripping apart the constitution, you support racism or you support the downfall of democracy, you tolerate bigotry against LGBT or you spit in God's face for tolerating LGBT. --- and all your friends and family should abandon you for supporting such things. How dare you!!!
I will take a stance and not fly on Delta! Unless I'm flying somewhere and Delta looks like a good option, then I'll fly on them.
How come supporting 2nd amendment is being "neutral"? Of course you can support it but you are taking one stance which is already not neutral.
@Erik, I'm going to take your guns away from you
Delta is predictably self-serving in all things.
@Richard
While I'm not a huge fan of the 2nd Amendment (or at least its recent interpretation by activist conservative judges to read into it an unimpeachable individual right to bear arms/assault rifles that was never intended by the Founders), its possible to support the 2nd Amendment while not supporting the nihilist corporate shills at the NRA. As a liberal, I don't want to take away everyone's guns, but it should be possible to ban...
@Richard
While I'm not a huge fan of the 2nd Amendment (or at least its recent interpretation by activist conservative judges to read into it an unimpeachable individual right to bear arms/assault rifles that was never intended by the Founders), its possible to support the 2nd Amendment while not supporting the nihilist corporate shills at the NRA. As a liberal, I don't want to take away everyone's guns, but it should be possible to ban weapons of mass murder/impose stronger background checks and tracking of gun owners/empower law enforcement to take away guns from people they perceive to be a threat to public safety (the right likes to harp about the failure of law enforcement to stop the Parkland shooter while conveniently ignoring all of the policies they have supported that prevent law enforcement from confiscating guns from people who should not own guns).
NRA is a domestic terrorist organization.
Their members are either unethical, over-entitled elites or uneducated imbeciles too stupid to understand they're being manipulated.
I’m so confused. Did United just demonstrate a better public relations move the Delta?!?
Almost all the major Airlines and now most car rentals no longer affiliate with them. Who are the NRA crowd going to boycott? I don't know why they should be getting a discount with them anyway, what good do they do for society to deserve it?
That's a really odd statement, because it is certain to please no one. They would have done better to say, "this is a sh!tstorm that we do not want to get in the middle of." Because -- make no mistake of this -- businesses are not ethical entities that act in anything other than the best interest of shareholders. Delta couldn't care less whether handguns are banned or whether a two year old can buy...
That's a really odd statement, because it is certain to please no one. They would have done better to say, "this is a sh!tstorm that we do not want to get in the middle of." Because -- make no mistake of this -- businesses are not ethical entities that act in anything other than the best interest of shareholders. Delta couldn't care less whether handguns are banned or whether a two year old can buy a machine gun. They are concerned that at this moment giving NRA members a discount is not accretive to net profits.
This whole thing is a nothingburger. I’m going to quote Ben Shapiro:
“The left thinks they can manipulate us into forking over our boomsticks with insults and threats of full-priced rental cars. Not gonna happen. No amount of #BoycottNRA is going to make firearm aficionados resent their Smith & Wessons. I guess “from my cold dead hands” wasn’t clear enough.“
Keep crying, lefties.
You badly need those clicks and pageviews huh. Good luck to you.
Really losing the plot for this blog.
How is the connection made between supporting the second amendment and murdering children. People are so dumb. Just plain stupid if you actually think boycotting the NRA is somehow going to stop school shootings. You’re the same stupid people who support me too and times up, as though somehow things will change.
To be Bipartisan, Delta and United can't support the NRA. That's just common sense.
How is a civil war legal...or good? Honestly, I think the United States has been so insulated from the horrors of war that we have no appreciation for how incredibly devastating it is to the young, the old, and everyone in between. "War is Hell" is no exaggeration.
Delta should have shut up after the first statement. Why say more? This is idiotic. There is no way for this to do anything but piss everyone off.
We need a civil war. A legal way to kill each other.
Regardless of it being right or wrong - delta is not being neutral once they say "delta supports the second amendment" .
Delta is correct, not offering or partnering with a specific organization is neutral.
Offering discount would be seen as favoritism, not offering would be either no comment or disfavortism, depending on history.
Thank you Ben for staying neutral, at least in this post.
Delta’s PR here is so bad one might argue they should be shot
I can’t wait for these comments