Airline operations are complicated, and there are all kinds of reasons that flights potentially need to divert. However, this has to be among the most embarrassing reasons, as flagged by View from the Wing.
Continue reading: Oops: United Airlines Flight Diverts After Pilot Forgets Passport
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Saw some speculation that maybe the pilot got a new passport but had their Chinese visa in the old one, which they forgot to bring. That would be a bit more understandable
The Chinese aren’t rigid sticklers and their average IQ is high. They would’ve figured things out without the waste of fuel and extra emissions of this diversion.
Passports are extremely antiquated documents. Anything physical is. The Chinese don’t even use physical cash anymore. Everything is transacted through WeChat and Alipay.
Also this is a generally good reminder that open borders are the solution for the entire world. The system of document controls limiting members of the same species from crossing artificially delineated borders is just primitive nonsense.
You are clearly misinformed. The Chinese would’ve detained this pilot immediately. If they were lucky, they would’ve allowed them to remain on the aircraft and leave the country, but that’s likely wishful thinking. The airline would’ve received a massive fine. If you have ever transited China then you’d know that nothing makes sense and their goal appears to be making everything much more complicated than it should be, especially as it relates to clearing their customs.
Airlines should have GAs spend 30 seconds checking passports of all the crew on international flights before boarding, like they do with passengers. Not for document verification but as a way to catch mistakes like this.
If my pilot forgot to bring the correct travel documents, what else might they forget to do? I find this troubling.
And the passengers were given a $15 voucher, probably good for a cup of coffee at SFO. At least a $50+ dinner voucher would have been polite to say nothing of 5k or 10k miles on the frequent flyer account.
A $15 meal voucher at SFO might get you a plain bagel and some water. Even the water is about $5.
If this was an EU airline passengers would be entitled to €600 cash plus all food and beverage expenses reimbursed.
When is the “We the people” part of our system of government going to be honored?
Arps, very little which you post makes much sense to many, however, one can see that you enjoy the patronage of someone or other. Could it be pain Jane or her ultra ego Julie, by any chance?
the person who has never paid the consequences for their mistakes never learns.
It is up to UA to figure out how to solve this problem w/ its pilots, the only UA labor group that will be in a current contract by this summer.
A UA FA posted elsewhere that UA FAs are required to show their passports before international flights but ALPA pushed back and it isn't rquired for pilots
Usually when crew “sign- on they tick the box that asks if they have read all of the necessary safety related issues and that they are in possession of a valid passport together with the limit of carrying the required amount of legal currency departing the country , however, I’m not completely sure if it’s the same ex USA
United FAs don’t have to show passport prior to departure. I always use my driver license for kcm. I’ve heard stories of fa’s forgetting their passport and the gov just keeping them in holding cell until they send them back on flight following day.
Not true. It’s up to purser if they want to actually see it or just say “hey you have your passport right” Source: UA FA.
You crack me up Uncle, are you just another commenter who cannot tell his derrière from his elbow?
That would be a lot more understandable.
Even more so if the pilot was switched destinations at short notice.
Wondering how crew entry works in general (it would be a huge issue needing visas for every destination country), I found an thread on Reddit that most countries allow airlines (and shipping companies) to declare the crew on each flight which gets them permission to enter, or get visa on arrival.
But the two big exceptions where the crew need actual visas are USA and China.
For the USA, can crew from ESTA-eligible countries just get an ESTA?
If this had been a UA flight attendant they never would have turned around. The Chinese govt would just deport them on the next flight leaving for the states and they would be disciplined upon landing back in the states! Amazing how different things go when it’s a pilot!
I once had a flight delayed in Dulles because the pilot forgot his passport in Houston. They found a new pilot and took off an hour late.
Pilot is right up there with the Southwest pilots that took off from a taxiway at MCO.
Of all the procedural things I grouse about when it comes to travel, I actually appreciate having to show the agent my passport before boarding, so that I don't find myself in exactly this situation!
As a flight attendant this would be considered a performance point or infraction. Aka a slap on the wrist.
But increasingly you don't have to. Many international gates just scan your face and allow you to board. If you didn't actually bring your passport you may be SOL upon arrival unless you are a citizen of the arrival country
Maybe not so amazing when the airline can legally operate the flight with a F/A 'shortage' as long as there's minimum crew. With pilots I believe there is no such 'slack'.
No, pilots (and flight attendants for that matter) do not have to show, scan or otherwise present their passports when they go to work. To access the secure part of the airport, crews must show an Airline Crew Badge along with a government issued ID, but the ID does not have to be a passport; it can be a driver’s license. Passports are presented by passengers, but not crew. It’s completely on the honor system worldwide. This is likely going to be a slap on the wrist for the pilot. No disciplinary action will be taken unless it becomes a repeat occurrence for the pilot in question.
Not true. It’s not in the current briefing framework for pursers to check the passports of the crew. Source: UA FA.
Be careful, PhillyPhlyer, or Arps will call you racist!
Arps, the Chinese government is famously rigid. But then again you called me racist for saying traditional Chinese medicine doesn't work, so it's clear that you're just one of those unconditional Sinophiles. Do you even recognize Taiwan's sovereignty?
If it was going to be a criminal offense (of either country) to continue the flight, then yes turn back. If it was just about dealing with the union, then pay who you need to pay and keep flying.
No crewmember has to show passports to outbound immigration upon departure.
After Briefing, they just enter the crewbus to the tarmac.
However, during my duty time as a flight attendant, we were only asked in the briefing room to check our documents.
Thats it....
This happened twice in one week, a change in procedures in all international flights is warranted. Before boarding, ALL crew should have there passports SCANNED. This is worth the slight inconvenience. Everyone makes mistakes, but when it hurts many other people it's time for corrective action.
The U.S. doesn't have passport control for people leaving the country, just for people entering. Not even TSA requires it at the ID check. It is entirely up to the airline to ensure you have proper documentation, which for passengers usually happens during check-in. I like to think an airline as large and established as United has some protocol in place to prevent this situation from happening, but I guess things can slip through the cracks.
This is not an accurate statement for the international flights I fly on; passenger passports are verified at boarding even if facial scanner is used.
You do truly appear to be a bad version of an annoying AI bot.
Depending on the load they are carrying.
If it was around 50-60% passenger load and no cargo, it will be 20t plus B787-9 125t OEW the plane should be at 145t without fuel.
The fuel load should be between 75-80t. Their weight at takeoff should be 225t.
For the 3hrs they already spent in the air, they would have burnt over 15t.
So they need to have dumped between 15-25t to be below MLW.
NOTE: this is highly speculative. No proper calculations was ever done. The passenger load and cargo should ideally be above the 20t example.
You don’t need a visa to enter China anymore for stays of up to 10 days as of last year, provided you have an ongoing ticket. This applies to all major gateways which Shanghai is certainly one, so it’s doubtful lack of a visa is the issue…
Cheap on United. But nothing compared to what folks will get or not get from Heathrow, could take years before any money is given out.
Former flight attendant for BA here.
The last thing you would check is ensuring you have your passport & crew ID with you before leaving home.
Despite that this still happens.
It is easy enough to do when swapping out uniforms.
As to the legalities it would depend on immigration.
Yes he could be returned or permitted entry as there is a list of crewmembers provided to immigration pre departure around 3-4 days out called the waterguard list.
Operating crew have to check they are on it.
Otherwise yes you should ensure you have all documents on your person before leaving home.
Fwiw China’s “Transit Without Visa” policy requires you to fly onwards to a third county — you won’t be eligible if you’re flying back to your originating country. There’s only small handful of EU and Asian passports that are visa exempt — the US isn’t included. Though maybe things work differently for airline crew.
do you think there's seed oil in the bagel dough, or the cream cheese ?
hint: neither of those recipes typically include any oil at all.
Bagel dough: flour, malt, salt, water, yeast.
Philly cream cheese ingredients: PASTEURIZED MILK AND CREAM, SALT, CAROB BEAN GUM, CHEESE CULTURE (from https://www.kraftheinz.com/philadelphia/products/00021000612239-original-cream-cheese)
Please take your weird seed oil agenda somewhere else
Outside of the United States, immigration violations are generally handled as civil matters, not criminal offenses, with deportation or removal as the primary consequence
Bro just shilling for the CCP over here.
It's hard to think of a country *more* of a stickler about immigration issues than West Taiwan
While the dinosaurs continue to defend this obsolete practice and we customers have to face the consequences.
This would never have happened if a computer was flying.
No careless pilot, no missing passports, no drunk pilots, no power trip pilots, no landing at a wrong airport, departing from taxi way, no sick, no DEI blame game, no childish condescending game with other humans (yes you ATC), to name a few.
Best of all to those obsessed with 1500 hours. Consider the average 12k planes flying at any given moment. Collectively computers would pass that 1500 hour requirement approximately every 7.5 minutes.
Just sayin.
Add this requirement to the Cockpit Preparation Procedures chart, and have it also placarded in all Crew Briefing Rooms.
I suspect that checking for passports will become established procedure at United - and other airlines if they don't already do so.