Sometimes you’ll see flight delays because passengers have to be removed from the aircraft, though it’s not every day that you see a delay because crew members had to be removed.
Continue reading: United Airlines Flight Delayed By Hours After Crew Fights, Can’t Work Together
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This. Is. Why. We. Need. Air. Passenger. Rights. Legislation. Like. EU261.
This is a staffing issue under the airlines' control. If you're gonna fail to perform, then pay up. Your customers/passengers gave you a zero-interest loan by purchasing specific dates, times, class of service, etc., often many months in-advance. For the airline to get to significantly delay or cancel a flight for any reason, and only have to provide a refund (sometimes only partial), creates the wrong incentive for these companies to continue to screw us over.
Likewise, pay and support your crews and ground staff. If we can give Argentina $40 billion on a whim, while we force the needy off food assistance, there's ample money in the USA... we're just using it poorly, and punching-down. I'd expect, if these crew members weren't strained financially, they'd probably treat each other better, and their roles even more seriously. Alas, we're needlessly suffering because apparently those at the top don't care to lead or manage responsibly anymore.
Yet another case for some to acquaint themselves with Maslow's hierarchy of needs, yes?
Only the foolhardy fail in their personal management abilities after ignoring the basic needs of all human beings.
Every variation of delay imaginable can be found across the United network. This isn't premium airline. No US carrier for that matter is. But at the very least, United doesn't pretend to be the elevated experience it is not, unlike its ATL based competitor, which has no humility and will find itself with lots of premium seats chasing fewer customers once the US economy tanks.
Reminds one of the fight two AF pilots got into on a flight from GVA to CDG.
Like, that flight isn't even long enough to get to know your colleague in the cockpit, least of all determine that you hate and need to hit him...
And, when stressed, ask yourself: Am I tired, hungry, need to use the toilet, or facing a false sense of urgency? Remember your training. Also, take deep breaths. And, finally, this too shall pass. Dust to dust. Pale Blue Dot.
EU261 actually makes some passengers want the flight to be late! What ends up happening is the cost of flights go up slightly but a small number of passengers get a windfall. The effect is Trumpian, not liberal or progressive. It worsens income inequality!
In the EU, airlines are different. The Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant segment is bigger. Airfares within the EU are competitive with US levels 2 months in advance but 2-3 weeks out can be significantly more expensive.
As far as Argentina, the feds are supplying $20B, not $40B. An additional 20B is from private sources. $20B is not a gift but a credit swap. Still risky but there's some chance that it won't cost the US a dime.
This myth of increased airfare is disproven by Ryanair which continues to operate dirt-cheap flights at a profit, even while EU261 affects nearly all of their routes.
Such regulations do not bankrupt airlines; it presents the correct incentives for them to operate timely, which leads to greater efficiency and reliability, and thus, more business.
Maybe some do 'hope' for delays, but most do not; and, the passengers do not get to decide whether their flight is on-schedule, early, late, etc. That's usually under the control of the airline (or 'extraordinary circumstances.')
As to Argentina, please do apply that same logic to all other foreign aide, and you'll quickly disagree with yourself. $40 billion to bail out Wall Street while SNAP dries up. A+ shilling.
One immediately knows if one’s management skills are adequate when junior colleagues volunteer to accompany one into a life threatening situation. One is not suggesting that civil aviation is as hazardous as some other forms of flying practices, however, Boeing Max flying for a U.S. airline could well be the exception …. 🙂
"EU261 actually makes some passengers want the flight to be late!"
So what? It may also make other passengers "want" to have unicorns fly out of their butts. It doesn't mean a thing or make a bit of difference, not even sure why you would say this.
"What ends up happening is the cost of flights go up slightly but a small number of passengers get a windfall."
Provide the data for this assertion.
One immediately knows if one’s management skills are adequate when junior colleagues volunteer to accompany one into a life threatening situation. One is not suggesting that civil aviation is as hazardous as some other forms of flying practices, however, Boeing Max flying for a U.S. airline could well be the exception …. 🙂
Willy, I’m confused as to why it sounds as if you are so opposed to EU261 type compensation for U.S. citizens flying domestic routes. As it is my understanding that U.S. domestic air travel is in tatters, as far as customer satisfaction is concerned, surely only the airlines bean counters could object, yes?
Do you contend that regulations would only make the situation worse?
@AeroB13a - I'm not sure what I said that would lead one to believe that I'm opposed to having an EU261-type rule in place for the USA.
My objection was to the statement about passengers wanting to be late; my point there was that it doesn't matter if "passengers want the flight to be late!" - passengers don't control airline departures or arrivals.
My question was about the assertion that "the cost of flights go up slightly but a small number of passengers get a windfall." I asked for proof of that in the form of data, not opinion.
I do not contend that regulations would only make the situation worse.
I understand there are a lot of different kinds of flight attendants but I agree it's rare to see them not get along with each other to the point a supervisor had to be involved.
Apologies for the repetitive posts, there is a website posting delay making post hit or miss.
Sucks for all the passengers, especially those that missed connections. Someone needs to be fired.
Thank you Willy, for clearing the ‘muddy’ waters, I do appreciate the clarity.
What’s the purpose of this comment? Ragebait? It’s pathetic. And your comment isn’t even related to the article but simply to incite a back and forth with a certain someone. At this point you guys love their commentary because why else would you make a comment like this. Smh
What in the world could 2 flight attendants disagree with on a 45-50 minute (air time) flight? Do they even do a service in the back?
AeroB13a, kudos to the UK, not for Brexit (yikes), but actually for copying-and-pasting EU261 after you left the EU, and for adopting an equivalent UK261, which operates much the same. Even Canada legislated the APPR, which is similar in many ways. The USA (and Australia) should indeed copy their EU, UK, and CA counterparts. Honestly, it should be a global standard.
Americans are captive to a poor infrastructure.
Imagine if there was a decent rail service, there would be an alternative.
Des Moines doesn’t even have a mainline station and it takes 7 hours from Osceola to Chicago, versus 1 hour 46 from Paris to Strasbourg which is a similar distance.
Inmates are running the asylum when two flight attendants cannot get along for a few hours and cause this amount of disruption. They should be demonstrating problem solving skills, not being the problem. Slap a smile on your face and quit, or do the job.
Brexit …. what Brexit?
Brexit has not happened. Why not?
The facts are that as Great Britain has not enjoyed a true Conservative Party since Margaret Thatcher, the politicians of all parties failed to uphold the democratic will of the British electorate. The ‘blob’ in Whitehall, the so called Civil Service, is nothing more than a collection of unelected loony, leftist and woke public purse parasites.
I wonder if it was about Scott Kirby and him not giving af about his flight attendants.
I have heard of FO's depart the cockpit because they felt the captain was not flight ready. As to the cause, alcohol seemed to be behind it.
I have read various press reports on pilot disagreements but usually the root cause is never fully explained.
Didn't the passengers provide some insight? Someone must have heard or seen something.
If my children are any indication, they were fighting over who gets to sit in the front (jump)seat.
Icarus, yup, we are not Japan, China, Italy, France, etc. The best 'rail' we have currently in the USA is the Acela in the NE (DC-PHL-NYC-BOS in about +8 hours, sheesh), or the Brightline in FL (Miami-Orlando, in about 3-4 hours). That's about it for now. Regional Amtrak is slow, unreliable. Regional trains in cities and suburbs (NJ Transit, MetroNorth, LIRR) are just okay.
There but for the determination of some fine British service personnel, British civilians, merchant seamen (including HK Chinese seamen), The Gurkhas, the islanders and not forgetting Margaret Thatcher, it could have been a very poor do, don’t you know.
I was present for that operation, the Falkland’s 25 parade and look forward to the Falkland’s 50 parade too.
Please see response above …. the internet connection is playing tricks upon me today.
Given how far too many people these days have become deranged over politics, I can't help but wonder if that was the cause.
Do FAs get to veto other FAs they don’t want to work with in the same flight as pilots do?
When I flew, it was almost exclusively on 747's with as many as 16 FA. There was almost always a little tension between the very senior crew members and those of us who were considerably younger but never anything like this ! What a shame.
"As far as Argentina, the feds are supplying $20B, not $40B. An additional 20B is from private sources. $20B is not a gift but a credit swap. Still risky but there's some chance that it won't cost the US a dime."
You are gambling on the argentine peso lmfao. incidentally, are you in the market for beachfront property in idaho?
How many flights had they already worked that day? I'm sure they didn't start out in Des Moines. Nor did United have standby crew there, the replacements must have been flown in from Chicago.
Before criticizing "them," are we sure that one of them didn't notice the other was on drugs and didn't want to continue the charade?