Southwest 737 & Helicopter On Collision Course, ATC Just Watches

Maybe the ATC controller thought they weren't being paid enough to care (or, paid at all).

DEI

The transcription is incorrect at a crucial point before the Southwest plane turns to final. ATC asks the helicopter for 3000' not 2000'. But helicopter responds with maintaining 2000' with a stress on the 2. Either the helicopter misheard as in the transcription or he insisted on 2000 and wanted to make sure ATC heard the 2. Since ATC made no attempt to correct, the helicopter would assume he was fine at 2000'.

Visual separation is typically easier for horizontal distance than vertical which is difficult to judge. With the helicopter assuming they were fine in vertical separation from previous exchange, they would have thought they were passing in front (with visual separation) and above assuming the plane would be lower.

Southwest may have lost the helicopter visual under the nose on final.

Two major slipups. Not sure why they allowed the helicopter to cross over short final rather than over the runway vectoring it that way. Combined with ATC not being aware of the insufficient vertical separation for that flight path even before the Southwest had turned final.

Second, ATC should also have been become aware of the converging paths even before the TCAS warning on the Southwest.

Did ATC think the helicopter was at 3000 as had been instructed not seeing the transponder read out?

There is more than just communication breakdown at play here

The sooner ATC is completely automated, the better. The computers can all talk to each-other and remove the human element altogether.

@ GV -- You're talking about 41 seconds into the video? I distinctly hear the controller saying 2,000, but maybe I'm misunderstanding?

Oh stuff a sock in it.

I had to check FlightAware to figure out what time of day (or night) this happened. Apparently SWA1333 landed at 2:34pm, on time, at Cleveland.

Is it a conscious decision to not cover the AA transcon devaluation?

@ Jack -- You're talking about an increase to the non-saver award costs in premium cabins on transcon flights? If so, I don't really view that as a huge story. The cap on how much awards cost has increased considerably over time. But it seems saver awards are still reasonably priced, when available?

'Watching' isn't usually a problem; so, I'd say, 'don't yuck someone else's yum,' but, if it's gonna 'hurt' others, especially without their consent, then that's a huge no-no.

Anyway, I'd think a mid-air collision probably hurts others without their consent.

No, mate. Invest in better tech and equipment, but humans should always be involved, even if as mere oversight. We should still want experienced pilots up-front, and professionals in-the-tower.

Why not 'tell us how you really feel' because anytime I see this b.s. it's just thinly-veiled hate. Like, go-ahead, use the 'hard-r' on here, so others are not confused at what you're suggesting.

Yup. Last bi-weekly paychecks were mid-October; this incident happened October 26, 2025. Republicans should immediately negotiate in-good-faith with Democrats for a bi-partisan budget. Keep people safe. Pay ATC, FAA, TSA; fund all the programs; healthcare is a human right.

Agreed they should be paid for working. But to suggest that 150-175 lives should be lost is insane.

What is being suggested here, that ATC personnel would let a collision occur because they are pawns in a political fight and therefore, don't care? The ATC personnel are still showing up even though they are not being paid. I would say that shows dedication and concern for providing public services even in these trying circumstances. Can we avoid beating up civil servants for doing their jobs?

Sooooo do you just that to explain everything you don’t like? Maybe you you should try harder in life and stop blaming others for your failures.

There is a very simple explanation here - normalization of deviance.

Helicopters (and other slower moving aircraft) probably do these kinds of visual separations countless times each day near approach paths all around the country. It makes the controllers nervous to varying degrees but the vast vast majority of the time works out without anybody having to make emergency maneuvers.

This time things got too close.

But the issue is this happens in general.

@ Keith -- That's not at all what I'm suggesting. Instead, I'm suggesting that often there's a diffusion of responsibility that leads to bad outcomes. This has nothing to do with the government shutdown. Just look at the number of air accidents that happened over the years because someone refused to speak up, or just assumed that another person knew what they were doing.

JUNE, no one is suggesting that.

I think Simon is right on. I would have hoped for more of an alert from ATC here, but I also think it’s hard to say oh ATC failed miserably here when we ask them to overlook similar situations with helos all the time and it works out. The attention shouldn’t be focused on the ATC individual; the problem is with the larger system and its failure to adequately manage the separation and approach safety needs of both Helos and passenger planes.

The Helo was in controlled airspace. Giving them VS is BS. The controller is responsible for separation and failed to do his job. If I was the SW skipper a phone call would be made, a controller deviation ASAP, and a NSAS report would have been filed.

No mate.

Automation like TCAS has never failed which result in loss of human lives except when...you know it damm well... humans override TCAS. Either by not having one, forgot to turn it on, or follow human ATC instead of computer.

We don't need a pilot or ATC with experience to override, they are still subject to human error, the leading cause of aviation fatalities.
These people would have at most 50,000 hours experience in their lifetime.
Computers can experience that in less than a day.

If experience is your concern, you're looking at the wrong data (yet another example of human error).