An OMAAT reader shared an incredibly frustrating experience he recently had, and asked for my take. This is one of those situations where the traveler gets screwed, and actually making things right is extremely complicated.
Continue reading: A Singapore Airlines Multi-Airline Ticket Disaster: Who Is To Blame?
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Said it before , I will say it again..
Airlines get away with stuff no other industry can get away with.
From my perspective, jame had a contract with SQ. They took his money and they need to make him whole. As simple as that.
If they believe one of their sub contractors is at fault, they can pursue it with the other airlines, but sending Jamie to do it is absolutely obscene.
“Said it before, I will say it again” ….
Sorry Jamie, but you pays your money and you take your chance!
A well seasoned traveller would never have booked such a mixed up itinerary. One hopes that others learn from this hard earned lesson …. “Every day is a school day”, yes?
Poor Jamie :(. Most people do not travel frequently or have the knowledge you and us followers have. Jamie did nothing wrong. What a sh*tty situation.
Aer lingus was entirely responsible for rebooking as it was their delay. Nor is it about “ saving money “. Staff don’t consider that when rebooking. They look at the alternatives available, usually starting with partner carriers first. Hopefully when rebooking they actually reissued the ticket correctly as it can cause issues downline.
I agree with the general advice, do not combine expensive premium tickets with a 2nd rate airline to get you there. Book all on one carrier, and get yourself to the hopping off point yourself, with time to spare.
Unfortunately, when you buy a several thousand dollar ticket, it requires a bit of buyer's caution. He should've rejected the rebooking and gotten a ticket refund/cancellation.
I got angry reading the whole thing. So much could have been done differently.
What was SQ thinking issuing that ticket with the short connection times? Even at SIN he’d be running from plane to the next gate!
Also wouldn’t a routing with JV partner LH via FRA/MUC be better and more connections? Or are their flights from CDG that empty that SQ would rather book seats on Aer Lingus?!
There’s no even lounge time with that itinerary. Poor Jamie.
When booking connections on important flights, I always ask myself “and what happens if I miss it?”
If it’s a once-per week flight to Bhutan, I’m going to be at the connection city 12-24 hours ahead of time.
If it’s the first of 9 directs from DFW to MIA, then I’ll book the short connection knowing the result of a missed connection will be fine.
I have become somewhat more defensive and aware of “Plan B” as I travel. Of course, nothing is 100% but I tend to know my stakes when going into it now.
Of course, sometimes the reroutes are fun and they book you into full fare classes!
The sh#*#*#t airlines have gotten away with and continue to get away with is ridiculous.
What was SQ thinking ?? The point is it’s a valid connection and it’s likely booked online. Connections aren’t sold if the vast majority miss them. Unfortunately there was a delay. Transferring at SIN is fairly seamless. US carriers sell connections of 30 mins or less. Airlines even sell 90 min transfers at JFK from international to domestic which I would never personally do. The minimum for international to domestic should be 3 hrs.
All solid advice from Lucky. I think the unspoken part was the possible inexperience of the traveller attempting to connect through several hubs with shockingly small connection windows everywhere, on a multi-leg, long haul itinerary, flown by multiple airlines(!!!) Or maybe he is an experienced traveller who felt comfortable (or complacent?) dicing with disaster? There's a lot of good to be had from taking itineraries with 4 - 6 hour connection windows, because boredom is better than a missed flight any day. Not to mention sticking with just one or at most two airlines for your whole trip...And as for Aer Dingus, the less said the better.
I am VERY disappointed to read this. This is criminal stupidity! Where is the respect for the customer??
False. As long as your connecting flight is on the same airline you are okay. If a different airline then yes bad idea. Same airline means the airline has a "duty of care" to ensure that you get to your destination legally and Many airlines have this stipulated in the flight booking agreement.
Customer takes some responsibility in this as well. Calling the airlines on the phone or sending a dm on X would have possibly avoided all of this. Idk how you just put your travel plans in the hands of some swirly gate agents.
To me it was definitlely aerlingus at fault as the issue originated with them and it was your first flight.
The lesson here for me (as i do the same journey but through LHR ) i wouldn't let them talk me into a diferent route or carriers.
I hopefully have left enough time in LHR ( 3 Hours ) as its in the same terminal as SQ and hopefully EI will put my bags all the way through ( all on the ticket ) .
It's giving "we misconnected and need a flight To Nice"
When this kind of miss connects start happening, you should be double and triple checking your rebooking online and using online tools to get rebooked, instead of whatever the agent hands you
OP should've gone online and found a same day acceptable itinerary to be rebooked on instead of a day later
For this statement to work one has to really know which airlines are in same alliance or interline that is "closely" or "not so closely". Almost need hard core accurate AI to figure it out while being put on the spot to immediately decide:
"rejected the rebooking on British Airways connecting to Emirates and asked for a different routing, because being rebooked between two non-interline partners with a short connection isn’t good"
It’s also not BA’s fault if you’re rerouted by one airline onto another. They don’t know what happened before. BA may check the booking and respond DXB was the final destination and would refer him back to aer lingus if there was no onward trip to AKL. If he had checked bags that would have been identified during the initial check in. For the boarding passes it would be in Dubai assuming he had an onward booking to Auckland. BA for example, can’t necessarily check you in for an emirates flight assuming there was a booking.
I don't even like booking domestic USA flights, particularly in the winter when you often need to de-ice, with connections under 90 minutes. While the customer isn't to blame the customer should have exercised better judgment when booking the original reservation. It's no different than when you book a less-common route served once a day or four days a week by a given airline. If something happens, you're screwed.
Alphonso,
You are wrong. The Airlines have a duty to service the customer. A gate agent on a power trip is so wrong and disrespectful not only to the customer, but more importantly to the airline, Airport and THEMSELVES!
I am not reading previous comments, but I’m talking as a retired airline employee. Mr. Ben is right when he says that EI is responsible in this case. Apparently SQ is bypassing the Star Alliance golden rule to book Star Alliance carriers (e.g. LH to Germany, then all SQ if they are pleased or via ZRH or BRU, etc). It’s known that BA and EK are not partnering. The EI employee who rewrote the ticket just did it to get rid of a (most likely) easy case to rebook on involuntary, taking booking classes randomly, re issuing ticket without checking with involved carrier (QR on first instance) if everything was ok. Just because in was “invol”
I think the auto industry gets away with more stuff.
The health care and insurance industry are also out of touch with reality.
That being said, airline and ATC does get away with criminal negligence for allowing obsolete and unsafe technologies to operate.
How does one find out which airlines interline, like BA and Emirates not?
Aer Lingus terrible behavior is an example of why Ireland should cease to be considered a country and should be considered part of the UK. Simply have a One UK policy, like the One China Policy. Airlines would be forced to list it as Dublin UK on the website or face punishment.
Lay off with the "tard", that is very rude and offensive. The customer does not have a duty to "call", it is thr Airlines responsibility to adequately deliver the service - an accountability which was blatantly cast aside. Customer is not at fault
I would book this ticket originating in the EU without hesitation. We have customer protection laws here and we have lawyer Dr. Böse who loves to take these cases to court.
Recently, for our Maui trip, I booked a 50 min layover in SLC, the other one had 5hr layover and rest were getting me to Maui very late. The pilots for our DTW-SLC flight were late flying in so our flight got delayed by 50mins. Spent good amount of the flight texting with Delta agent to get it rebooked - SLC-SAN on DL, SAN-OGG in AS.
Had asked multiple times how many were connecting from our flight and if the SLC-OGG flight will be held for the connecting passengers. No response. After we land, FA announces the Maui flight is being held back. Had to run to make it.
Lessons learned - It’s ok to be bored in an overcrowded lounge than to deal with the stress of missing fight connection day before your anniversary. NEVER AGAIN.
The pax still takes the risk and it’s your business meeting or wedding or valuable 1 week beach holiday that gets screwed. Why even book that short connection if you don’t have to?
What a xenophobic moron you are. If aer lingus has an interline agreement with emirates, they did nothing wrong in rebooking BA and EK since it was on their ticket
You sound like the man who tells the woman..."Sorry that happened to you but now you know to always wear a skirt below your knees."
If EI has an interline agreement there is no error in reaccommodating a customer on BA and EK as it’s an EI ticket. He had cabin baggage and would check in at DXB for the onward flight, as he couldn’t get a boarding pass issued before. That’s the norm.
Thank you Ben for sharing. I feel bad for Jamie and hope all will work out. If I were in Jamie's situation, I would have tried my best to be rebooked where all airlines were within the same alliance (DUB-DOH-AKL on oneworld or DUB-EWR-AKL on star alliance, etc.) After rebooking, I would have asked for the ticket number, PNR/reservation code/record locator, and itinerary. I would then fact-check each segment in the respective airline's website or app. Yes I always ask for the eticket number in addition to the PNR since I had an issue in the past where I had a PNR but no eticket number and that created extra stress on travel day.
The booking was ok, even a 6 hours connection time won’t help you if your Frist flight is 7 hours delayed. AerLingus is responsible for the EU261 compensation, nothing to do with SQ especially since the passenger did not bother to contact SQ early on when the issue happened, they might have been helpful to rebook them potentially via LHR or other European hub. Also suggesting a preferred routing to the airport agent might be better than simply accepting whatever they come up with. They usually take whatever first option the computer spits out. But if you tell them which specific flights to book, they might oblige. Also AirNZ should be honouring the original routing credit request and put the original flight numbers and booking classes to the system and let it credit accordingly. The passenger could get extra miles on oneworld for the BA flight and Skyward miles with Emirates for the flight actualll taken.
To be kept on hold for 45 minutes?!
I much prefer to deal with someone who cannot escape until we are done.
Exactly.
Where in the contract or some court judgement does it say that SQ is not contractually responsible?
Is the formal situation supposed to be that the customer consented to the contract being novated from SQ to EI?
If so, where is informed consent to that novation?
This! I always tell my friends and family DO NOT book short connections but especially in the winter. Minimum 2-3 hours connection.
A judge in Singapore taught me this lesson > look at the letterhead of the invoice.
In this case since Jamie bought an SQ ticket and paid SQ then SQ is responsible and SQ cannot outsource the problem away even EU261. Their problem with their partners is their problem and if they can’t resolve issues with their partners then they should terminate the partnership and not continue selling tickets
Jamie should lodge a small claims tribunal claim in Singapore since it’s SQ
SIA transacted in the book, the party that was supposedly responsible for the whole drama should be SIA. How SIA splits the responsibility is for SIA to deal with its other airlines, not the customer. SIA reputation has been going downhill over the past few years.
My personal experience with SIA in a flight when the flight was just taking off, and the stewardess announced that "Ladies & gentlemen, we are landing soon, pls tighten your seat belts ....", she read the wrong page. The entire plane passengers were shocked, I was amused.
EVERY TIME I have had an Aer Lingus customer service experience, it has gone badly. Such a surprise in a nation of very nice people. But I won't even fly a OneWorld codeshare on them anymore.
The problem with EU261 is that no additional compensation is due beyond a 4-hour delay. It costs the guilty airline almost the same whether the final delay is 5 hours or 35 hours.
As someone with Irish ancestry I can tell you that many Irish would disagree with you. The suffering and treatment of the Irish at the hands of the English over many generations and centuries is not forgotten. The scares from those wounds are healing. But the generations of pain inflicted will take generations to heal.
OMAAT should reach out to Aer Lingus and SQ to get the other side of the story!
He's letting the "where can I earn the best miles" tail wag the "how can I get from Point A to Point B" dog. This is what happens when people think "loyalty" programs have something to do with encouraging customers to be loyal. The best way to go from Ireland to New Zealand, is not with two stops and three airlines. Book stupid, get home a day late.
One is not a Scot, AnnTwerp. Scotsmen might well be Jocks in frocks and Twerps might well have another meaning altogether, yes?
Best ask the little B13’s, Ok?
But how do you know that I am a “Man”, Ant?
I could be a jock in a frock like travelling Willy, so that I can let it all hang out, yes?
A similar thing happened to me 6 years ago when I had an Aer Lingus flight to Manchester and then Singapore Airlines onwards to Australia eventually. The Aer Lingus Flight got cancelled and they wanted to re-route me through multiple other airlines (in economy when I paid for Business) and not with SQ. Luckily I stood my ground and they flew me to LHR and then onwards with SQ. It was very stressful. I feel if Aer Lingus were part of a large alliance, it would be much easier to re-route.
I would do the same. Actually, I do like the risk return.
1. Chance to get 600 Euro cash compensation
2. Chance to get double miles thanks to original routing credit
3. Chance to fly more interesting premium cabins
Point 3 refers to the right to be rebooked on the next possible routing by any airlines.
Most often the airline responsible for rebooking would not this so I would just write them an email and ask for the next possible routing, give them an appropriate time (maybe 2 hours). So far airlines never replied on time. So I would just book it on my own and ask for a refund. That worked so I had not to file a lawsuit.
Dr. Böse has actually written a helpful guide on this topic.
https://www.drboese.de/fluggastrechte/ersatzbefoerderung/
OMG. I believe it is Aer Lingus at fault (he should not let that go!), but perhaps things would resolve better if SQ was contacted directly.
On the other hand, it is good to have a ticket only from Star Alliance partners in such case.
I just went through an epic fight with my corporate travel office over a January trip. They wanted to book me on a Delta flight through Minneapolis with a 37-minute connection. For context, Delta board 40 minutes before departure. So, even if I'm landing on-time, I'm landing 3 minutes AFTER boarding started. Boarding door closes 15 minutes before departure. So, in reality, I would have a 22-minute connection. The other option with a 2-hour connection was $700 more expensive.
As somebody originally from DUB but living in the US, I don’t understand why you would select this itinerary on 3 airlines, including a non-alliance carrier. If he really wanted to fly SQ for one segment, why not have booked with LH from DUB-FRA for the first sector? Most people flying from DUB to NZ use EK or QR, which would be far more seamless. There’s also the option of BA through LHR and then CX or QF. If you don’t mind going westbound, AA, AC, and UA all have options. I would also argue that anything with less than 4 hours connecting at CDG is a huge risk. No defense of how EI handled this, but the passenger or their agent should have avoided all of this to begin with. It’s almost as risky as self-connecting on multiple tickets.
How do we know Aer Lingus is on the hook for EC 261 compensation? Did the reader say what the reason for the delay was?
I suspect he’ll end up with nothing unfortunately…
I tend to agree. Booking meshugah multi-airline itineraries is asking for trouble. Occasionally, though, even the most carefully meticulously planned trips turn to shit through no fault of the traveler.
I don’t want to blame the victim. But sounds like this isn’t the first time Jamie flying internationally. He should know that short connections internationally is a no no. I’m guessing because he only has a carry on so he figure he can chance it and hope for the best. That’s not the best way to travel unless you have a job like Lucky who can pivot last minute without much penalty. I hope Jamie gets some decent compensation for this debacle. Hind sight is 20/20. I would had called SQ when denied boarding in Ireland and have them figure out a new itinerary… perhaps fly to either FRA/CDG/LHR to Singapore via SQ and go from there.
Fact: This is not an itinerary. It's a recipe for total disaster.
As the great aeronautical engineer Kelly Johnson once said: Keep It Simple Stupid.
Aer Lingus’ representatives are a bunch of fu**ing idiots
What a terrible trip
Appreciate the coverage and advice Ben! Just want to touch on some stuff people have mentioned in the comments and the post. I know this itinerary was a bit crazy; living in NZ, with family far overseas and trying to retain NZ status sometimes means you're a bit short of options for what to book. Every other option was 4 figures more expensive.
Definitely it was a bit of traveller's hubris that said I could make the relatively tight connection in Paris all going to plan, but I wasn't in a hurry home. I had faith in the system that, if there was a misconnect, the airlines operating would take enough responsibility for my journey back home. I don't really have an issue with the fact I didn't make my original journey timings, but simply the disaster the reroute ended up being.
We had a similar issue with Aer Lingus a few years ago. They cancelled the flight out of Belfast to LHR, rebooked us in economy, (on an all economy flight, we had cash paid business tickets) on a later BA flight that meant we missed our SQ connections back to Sydney. We contacted SQ who were extremely helpful and rebooked us on the SQ flights the next morning. Aer Lingus provided accommodation.
However, BA insisted we pay for luggage to the tune of £500, with the assurance that we would be reimbursed by Aer Lingus (they told all the Aer Lingus pax the same) months of chasing Aer Lingus resulted in no reimbursement. They had a wonderful way of ignoring you for weeks, then asking for the same information over and over until the weeks turned into months between emails and phone calls and we just gave up.
Jamie shouldn't have bought a ticket with only 1.75 hour connection time in CDG. I transit through CDG about once a year. I get nervous anytime the connection time is less than 3 hours if I am changing airlines, which I almost always am.
"He was scheduled to fly on Aer Lingus from Dublin to Paris (CDG), then on Singapore Airlines to Singapore (SIN), and then on a Singapore Airlines codeshare on Air New Zealand to Auckland. His first layover was scheduled to be 1hr45min..."
"NOT MY PROBLEM" -- What Jamie should have said to everyone who said "No" to his reasonable requests to keep the same itinerary or carriers.
You know whose responsibility to know about "interline blah blah blah" -- that's right, not YOU not ME not JAMIE. NOT MY PROBLEM.
This is clear skullfuckery and I would recommend Jamie find a hotshot young lawyer and meet Singapore's lawyer in a court and don't settle and set precedent so these asses start taking responsibility FROM THE SECOND THEY TAKE YOUR MONEY until you have received the carriage, benefits, reward points, etc. that THEY offered YOU as an incentive to give them that money
sounds like Aer Lingus assumed because they has an interline with Emirates that BA did too. Hard to believe that they don't as Emirates flies 6 A380 to LHR daily, at some point some of those 3000 daily passengers fly BA connecting.
James, I was sorry to hear of your troubles. No fault of yours, and fully an airline issue - a complete and total blight on intellectual and service excellence at that!
My 'favorite' part of getting delayed is the experience with the agent in attempting to get rebooked. They look at you with astonishment as though this has never happened before. I think they all have a two week course at an acting school to learn the expressions.
Probably wouldn't have helped to call Singapore customer service. While Singapore Airlines is an excellent airline to fly, they recently outsourced their customer service to a call center in another country, and in my experience, they can't even deal with Singapore airlines flights anymore...
Aer Lingus is still stuck using this old, proprietary computer system that doesn’t play nicely with other airlines. Sure, it’s cheap to run, but it’s also the main reason they haven’t rejoined ONEWORLD even though they’re part of the Transatlantic JV. Anytime they need to upgrade it, the process drags on for years and eats up nearly all of EI’s programming resources. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the OP’s rebooking got tangled up in that mess—the system probably spit out something awkward, and the staff just went with it.
True. Even if it's on the same airline, you must factor in frequencies. Sure, you're more likely for them to handle it right. If you have a short connection and miss the flight to your destination, you may be stuck for nearly 24 hours (IF, they have daily flights there). None of this changes the mishandling by the airlines.
But, Jamie would need the right US visa to connect in the US. It may have discouraged any westward travel to get home.
I always always try for lengthy layovers of around 3-4 hours. Saves aggravation
Case in point. I've flown the AA DFW-AKL route. If I book a tight connection and miss it, I'm out of luck for up to 24 hours. The DFW-SYD and DFW-MEL flights are out earlier. So, I get a long connection.
I fly home to a town like BOD. I can fly home-BOS-CDG-BOD and be less concerned with connection time, since there would be at least 2 BOS-CDG SkyTeam flights after mine and five AF CDG-BOD flights after mine. Still, if I choose a short connection and miss, I'm likely not going to be rebooked in J and may end up in a middle Y seat.
IMHO ask for a full refund due to the delay - you are entitled to that - yes you may not be able to pay the same force different itinerary but at least you have your money
I also learned the hard way with Aer Lingus that short connections involving transatlantic flights are very risky / people were nice but we waited line 8 hours in Dublin to be sent to LHR to barely make a flight to AMS and of course our bags did not arrive - and yes they denied EU compensation
Not sure there is a perfect solution as the route is rather unique - and places are very far away
And the idea to go the long way because of a delay is ridiculous- plus the US requires visas for many
FYI Aer Lingua customer service is generally poor with things like this, I would avoid any ultra long haul itinerary involving them, so not surprised they made a mess with this.
Most of the older Irish women working at Aer Lingus customer service are just a bunch of old Fishmonger hags. Hateful group compared to how wonderful most people are in Ireland.
BA and EK certainly have an interline agreement (the ability to check bags to each other and issue tickets containing each other's sector). As you mentioned several times, this is just a very basic agreement. What BA and EK might not have is the InterAirline Through Check-In (IATCI), which allows boarding passes to be printed.
I think the situation was exacerbated by the fact that both EI and EK use their in-house CRS, unlike BA, QR, and SQ that are on Amadeus.
W/*BA¥*EK
BA-125 BRITISH AIRWAYS/BRITISH AIRWAYS PLC
MAY ISSUE TICKETS INCLUDING
EK-176 EMIRATES/EMIRATES
MAY CHECK BAGGAGE TO
EK
Agree with @mike that this is a crazy state of affairs with the airline industry in general.
That said, I'd personally avoid booking a double <2hr layover (2x the chance of things going wrong than one of those, which is often)
That's more what I would avoid than multi-airline, albeit, I only fly OW airlines and I have a perhaps misguided perception they would fix this more smoothly in the same situation.
3-4 hours for me is the minimum for a domestic connection with the same airline in the same terminal.
Sure, Jamie did nothing wrong on paper, but those initial connection times were insanely short. Two hours is my own personal minimum, with three preferable, especially when flying across the Atlantic.
I don't see why Singapore Airlines could be at fault here. Firstly, Singapore Airlines did not cause the delay, it was Aer Lingus. Under the law, the airline that caused the delay is at fault and therefore liable. Thus, trying to sue would be useless. Secondly, he did not reach out to Singapore Airlines to reroute, instead chosing to listen to and believe the Aer Lingus staff NOT to call Singapore Airlines. He only contacted Singapore Airlines only AFTER all the mess has been created by Aer Lingus, and after he had landed back in New Zealand.
SIA did not cause the debacle. Aer Lingus did. Firstly, the flight on Aer Lingus arrived 2 hours late. Secondly, Aer Lingus staff told Jamie NOT to call Singapore Airlines, and he foolishly listened to and believed them. Had he called Singapore Airlines, he could have been properly rerouted by SIA, and avoided the rerouting nightmare created by Aer Lingus staff.
I had the privilege to go through something similar last week flying in business using United award. First 2 flights on Aer Lingus and last 2 on Turkish.
MSP-DUB-AMS-IST-KHI
- Aer Lingus check-in staff at MSP were a disaster including their Lead Supervisor. They were not able to check my bags to my final destination as according to them their system only allows 2 connections.
- No Lounge access was offered at MSP
- Pathetic onboard service with poor meal options
- Worst Business lounge at Dublin
- Left 2 of my 4 bags at Amsterdam
- United booked me in business on DUB-AMS sector but Aer Lingus does not even offer business on that segment
It was a total disaster with Turkish denying my disabled mom, wheelchair access as apparently Aer Lingus dis not transfer wheelchair request over to Turkish
? That is factually incorrect. The passenger in the article completed travel using the rebooked segments. They are NOT entitled to any refunds or partial refunds.
The entitlement (if any) would be EU261 compensation. But that is not a refund entitlement.
Your comment has no factual or legal basis. Singapore Airlines has no legal liability here.
From your - ZERO LEGAL experience/background - perspective? Your opinion has no probative value in the eyes of the court thankfully.
Although SQ wasn't responsible legally, maybe the laws need to change. Not surprised about their bad customer service.
Just to add some detail here, even though the initial contract of carriage may have been with SQ, usually there is no guarantee in the terms regarding how you will be carried.
Also, on the financial side, SQ may have taken the money initially, but they will give away the money to the carrier who actually transports the passenger. There are complex IATA prorate agreements, or bilateral agreements between the airlines that handle the 48-hour disruption window. And yes, a carrier can make either a profit or a loss from a protection. Both can happen.
I'm just saying this to add some operational facts here. Needless to say, how this ended up for Jamie is terrible and it's not excusable. I do believe that SQ should at least take the responsibility / action to compensate.
Aer Lingus deliberately booked passenger on British Airways because Aer Lingus want to keep the passenger and revenue on its IAG group airlines That is why Aer Lingus rerouted/rebooked passenger on
BA 109 LHR to DXB Depart/2135 Arrive/0830+1
to connect
EK 448 DXB to AKL Depart/1005+1 Arrive/1115+2
Passenger should sue Aer Lingus for compensation and mishandling incident.