In June 2025, All Nippon Airways formally unveiled plans to start overhauling the cabins of its international Boeing 787-9s, which includes introducing new seats in all cabins. This doesn’t just include new business class suites, but also a new premium economy and economy cabin.
Continue reading: The Room FX: ANA’s New No-Recline Boeing 787 Business Class Suite
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I flew on Finnair’s similar business class seat twice now and found it as one of the most comfortable business class seat I’ve sat on. It really does feel like lounging in your living room when upright and the sleeping surface while on the firmer side was still comfortable. The one downside is that if you want to be halfway reclined cradle-style (which sometimes I do) then you’re not able to.
You have to appreciate their consistency when it comes to seat type as they only have 2 major types (the cradle seats on select 788s and 763s are an outlier) (Is the 77W retrofit even complete?!) but I wonder what their plans are for existing 787s. Do these seats find their way on some 787s or what? The staggered seats are still perfectly adequate for medium-haul routes.
It's somewhat surprising the the screens are only in HD where almost every has gone with 4K.
And if Qatar wanted consistency on their own Dreamliners, they could've gone with the same seat model and customize it from the ground up to align more closely with their Qsuites.
Same here, I found the Finnair seat very comfy - despite my initial skepticism!
@JD hit the nail on the head for me - I prefer a semi-reclined position and rarely, if ever, go full lie flat in most business class seats due to a neck problem.
I just flew Finnair this week and found the seat perfect when I was awake and sitting up, but I hated the inability to get in any kind of reclined position. I found the lie flat option roomy but generally uncomfortable.
Tack on the worst WiFi I have ever experienced, and I vowed I wouldn't experience Finnair a second time.
Not a fan of the no-recline concept (loathed Finnair's version), but, this suite concept would be a major improvement for ANA's 787.
Yeah, that was my thought as well -- would be interesting if this becomes a lot more common if passengers accept it.
I've flown Finnair's as well (a330), and was not a fan. At all. Much better to have the ability to lounge 'halfway' reclined as you describe. The pillows don't make up for it.
Yup, Finnair's setup is no-bueno. Regular recliner with the ability to half-recline is better.
This is a FANTASTIC SEAT. Finnair gives me a 6 foot 3 man the best sleep of my life on a plane. Super excited for this product.
"It's somewhat surprising the the screens are only in HD where almost every has gone with 4K."
Agreed.
Some cars even come with 8K television screens (not particularly helpful (yet) considering that there's not much 8K content available, plus the fact that the human eye can't discern much of a difference between 4K and 8K, but I digress), so yeah, ANA seems to have missed a trick here.
Hey Ben, would you mind using also the metric system when you state lengths widths and so on ? The ANA press release has them so you don't even have to convert and that's useful for the 95% of world population who does not have a mental image of what 76 inches are. https://www.anahd.co.jp/group/en/pr/202506/20250617-2.html
Haven’t flown it but I recline much more than the photo, so I will avoid.
I have a lazy boy at home, as well as a couch, always in the lazy boy.
agree... I don't lounge on my sofa for 10 or 12 hours and then just slide into sleep mode on the same piece of furniture.
The chances are high these seats can be made lighter and require far less maintenance but not being able to choose the position of the seat is not going to win over everyone.
Any carrier who orientates the seating for couple’s travelling together, to face the aircraft rear, is bound to experience objections from discerning lady passengers.
YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, LISA!
Sorry first thing that comes to mind when I see something called The Room
Was not a big fan of this kind if seat on finnair, where while comfortable, can't just "recline", is either flat bed or 90 degree upright!
Matthew, seemingly you, Sam Chui and I all share a similar mass. Sam found the footwell to be somewhat restrictive, have found this to be the case too?
Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it Tim/1990.
The jury is out for me regarding this seat. As Finnair have a version on the A350, plus all seats are forward facing, this seat might be worth a canter.
Aero, we've tried similar seats. I'll stop critiquing Finnair, for a moment, to remind us all that SQ has a similar style with their own lie-flat on a359, old a340, etc.
"The one downside is that if you want to be halfway reclined cradle-style"
Which is enormous, as that's how I spend most longhauls. Will definitely be avoiding this.
Thank you for reminding me about the old SQ kites. I would have been up front so missed the opportunity to ‘road test’ the J seating.
hahaha I was literally re-visiting this article earlier today, glad to see we are closer to the arrival of this new plane. Looks like a very interesting product, but by looking at it, it looks like the footwell is gonna be TIGHT, but I'll save my comments from when I try it.
and you still can't argue with the logic that I, and I think is true for most people, don't spend half a day on a sofa on which we go from a permanently reclined position to sleep.
We're not homeless people that only have one piece of furniture.
Bizarre that the official photos show the women barefoot. Not exactly hygienic.
I am surprised somewhat that ANA went for it. I would have thought that Finn Air's attempt at it would be similar to Air New Zealand's gimmicky old (from early to mid 2000s) premium economy.
The lack of armrests is problematic unless that's just something the pictures don't show.
Ah ah. And the blog cold be written in Klingon, translation services are free as well.
Japan uses the metric system, like the entire world does, other than the US, Liberia, and Myanmar. It's odd, but I guess that the metric system is the tool of the devil! Your car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way you likes it!
But here's the thing... many passengers do not 'accept' or 'prefer' this. In addition to getting stuck in HEL, I won't fly Finnair long-haul if it has this type of seat.
Now, ANA will probably do this better than AY, but, the style is really not the best option. Better to have the ability to partially recline. All or nothing feels cheap.
The press release states that the seat weighs the same as the previous one despite being much more roomy. As overall PAX are down 9 and factoring luggage allowance they are shaving a bit more than 1000 kg of PAX payload that they can reassign to freight or range. The change also eliminates one lavatory in Economy (ratio pax/lav increases 10%). I'm not clear as to what they assign the liberated space.
I don’t use the armrests on my sofa at home when I watch 6 hours of Netflix a night.
I think big Japanese companies can be quite arrogant in product development. As a general rule, it’s not served them well (see: Sony, Toyota) when the customer base is primarily global and has options.
But if the customer is primarily Japanese, the hubris sometimes works because most markets (like aviation) are tight oligopolies and customers care more about the “Japanese way” than the details.
The AY seat was a cautionary tale, not a breakthrough in UX/human factors for most people. Opinions about it are polarizing and that should NEVER be the case for a high-fixed-cost piece of infrastructure that you can’t easily swap.
If JL doesn’t join in, NH will have a real problem. Would be interesting to see them *really* compete, when they kinda don’t.
All of this is also funny because Japanese people are not that tall or wide. Most of the modern standard seats would have performed great on the 78 from a customer standpoint. I guess the width of the other design is popular.
I've flown Finnair's new seat several times. While comfortable for sleeping, the inability to put the seat in a semi-recline position for reading, etc. is very annoying. I avoid this seat, if possible, although a night flight probably would be ok.
SQ A 380, Suites, A 1 & 2 or F 1 & 2, are my very favourite when travelling with my little friend. Always on our return SIN-LHR runs. As will happen on our next month’s trip.
You 1990, what takes you on your travels?
Agreed that AY seat is not good.
However, Toyota is a great company with excellent, reliable products. No, not always luxurious. But, between most Western companies, Toyota's gonna outlast and be more affordable.
As to your assumptions about the Japanese, I donno, the rikishi seem pretty large.
LOL .... What a great retort ! ...MEEEEEOOW.. !. ( Sorry I didn't say this in Klingon & am too lazy to use Google ) .... 🙂
@AeroB13a
We'll give ya the benefit of the doubt and assume no pun intended in your choice of the word " ORIENTates " ! .... LOL
I have flown the Finnar no recline business class seat. In the fully upright position and the fully recline position, it is OK. The problem for me was trying to get comfortable in between the 2 positions. If, a generous supply of a variety of sizes of pillows were provided and a TV that could be angled down, were provided, I might consider it something I would fly again. It this point, it would take a substantial ticket cost savings for me to purchase a business class ticket with this seat again. I can see a place in the market for this product. For Airlines that struggle keeping the normally complex reclining seat operational (and the resulting forced down grade of business passengers to coach when the seat is not operational) and for passengers looking for a lower price business seat (assuming Airlines pass on the cost savings of the cheaper, lighter and much lower maintenance seat). For now, I will be avoiding this type of business class seat.
YMMV .... Depending on what NH serves the unwashed masses in steerage as to the advantage/ efficiency 'reassignment' gained by eliminating 1 Econo lav ! ...lol
Ronnie, I can’t for one minute believe that you watch “6 hours of Netflix a night”. You are on this medium for at least 5 hours each night, giving us the benefit of your experience …. Only joking 🙂
Bossa, guilty as charged I’m afraid. There is no denying it …. Mr Apple’s iOS AI has beaten me again! My mistake …. Apple’s fault …. 🙂
... but maybe not ... In order to subsidize the expense of this massive conversion, NH decided to eliminate the distribution of slippers when innovating its 'Future Xperience' concept ! ... Plus the added benefit of foot fetishist appeal .... Truly a win-win ! ..... LOL
I think trying it on a shorter flight is better before I try it for a long haul. I'm not sure my first experience would be good on a 10-15 hour flight.
.... Yes ..... and please do " continue " ... since you're off to a great start so far !
Ben -- is the term "mid-size aircraft" an actual specification or is it marketing speak? The categories I'm used to seeing are narrow vs widebody.
I know my planes fairly well but if a 789 is "midsize" I'd have no clue where to draw the line between that and "full size" or whatever comes next.
I think you've just ruined this seat concept for me. Then again, using any shared space (seats, hotel rooms) requires a certain amount of magical thinking. The previous occupant probably didn't do anything too gross. But the thousands of ppl who have stayed in that room or sat in that seat over the years? Things have happened in that room you cannot imagine.
Someone on the internet did the math on that. Do NOT buy a car that promises 40 rods per hogshead. I think it comes out to like 0.3 miles per gallon or something similarly absurd.
1. The success or failure of this product will depend almost solely on the footwell size. Will side sleepers be able to fit their feet in? Will men have their balls crushed between their thighs?
2. When tf are they going to finish the 77W retrofit? I swear they've had only 2 or 3 planes to go for years now (and they always seem to get stuck on the SFO route).
Jason, I agree. Out of curiosity, I pulled up a flight in two weeks on a Tokyo-JFK 777 for them. 4 of the remaining 7 window seats are backwards, as are 16 of the 20 center seats. You may have to be early to avoid flying backwards.
I think their point is that with widebodies a 787 is bigger than a 767 but smaller than a 777
I think Finnair‘s seats suck, and I am bummed that ANA has adopted this approach, which I really don’t think is comfortable for anyone other than: (1) a petite person or (2) a person lying down. The Finnair seat was excruciating on a long-haul flight because there was nothing between upright and an actual full recline. There were two positions on these non-mechanical seats: (1) sitting upright, with the seat edge approximately mid-thigh (for a 6-foot tall man) with the shoulder seatbelt *exactly* where one would naturally put one’s head, or (2) lying flat with one’s head in the prior passenger's fart zone. These non-reclining seats are, in my opinion, a low-rent away for airlines to pretend they're catering to passengers,while actually sacrificing their comfort — with an eye toward lower mechanical expenses on seat maintenance.
That's preposterous, PeteAU. No modern car in America gets 40 rods to the hogshead. Mine gets at least 80 rods to the hogshead, minimum.
Your Finnair issues have been well and truly aired. There are worse airports to be marooned in than HEL, btw. Manila, Windhoek, Pudong, Cairo...
Baliken, it is my understanding that ANA actually own circa 37, B787-9s, however, they lease a further 6.
Ben, will correct me if I’m wrong, however, it is my belief that ANA will “Select” those frames to be upgraded form the ones the own.
Once you're at cruising altitude and speed, forward/backward hardly makes a difference. Ok, so, maybe 1 hour out of 14 hours flight is at issue (taxi, takeoff, climb; descent, landing, taxi.)
I've only tried SQ's a359ULR, 787, a330. I'm scheduled to try their 738Max with the lie-flat 'throne' seats. Excited to try that out! I see no reason more US, European carriers cannot adopt that premium experience for their 5+ hour flights, especially transcon redeyes.
I actually prefer rear-facing for lie flat seats. Airplanes tend to fly nose-up, and I like having my feet lower than my head.
Please do share your tally. The sun of the *numerous* occurrences where you shared your distaste only count as 1.
It seems to me this rather is a love-it or hate-it situation. As someone else pointed out, a polarizing product.
This is OK when you have an alternative choice in the price range from the same company. Otherwise you're just throwing market share out the window. The question is what market are you repelling?
If ANA found a way to engineer a product that the Japanese love to pay for and the American don't want to redeem their miles on, they might have made the best business decision in decades 😉
I did the Finnish version mid-2025 and found it OK.
Mind you, at that point I was so tired I would have slept on a hard plank.
It was HEL-HND, a largely night flight.
I love both ANA and JAL, they just keep improving and it’s not just in Business either, their Economy and Premium Economy is Industry leading