All the time, OMAAT readers will share with me the frustrating situations they encounter with airlines, and I try to share my take and provide tips, best I can. Well, I’ve just encountered a situation with a ticket I had booked on Scandinavian Airlines (SAS), which is leaving me very frustrated.
Continue reading: SAS Canceled My Flight, I Pushed The Wrong Button, Now I’m Out Of Luck
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I would've made the connection for the SAS agent that your delay would've led to EU261 eligibility and that you were planning on pursuing the case if you forced into taking on the SAS flight.
I'm sure escalation onto a supervisor who is authorised to realise that it would be a net loss (once taxes and airport fees are deducted from the cash fare) to fly you, you would've seen your requested refund provided fairly quickly.
Accepting a new flight makes it non-refundable? Okay SAS or other airlines, if you do this, make it clear to the customer. Don’t hit them with unexpected non-refundability after the fact. Or you may face class action from my peers in the plaintiff’s bar!
I'd escalate at the airline's elite support. The salient point for me: their original email, telling you that if you do A, you can expect B. They promised you, at the time of their writing, that a web page offering you options was available. It wasn't. It may not gain you anything but it seems to me this is their biggest sin. Sadly you're not dealing with a high service culture so manage expectations accordingly. I enjoyed this post and value it highly.
EU and ME3 usually have these stupid customer unfriendly by the book to the T policy.
The employees can't even do anything if they wanted to help you. They can only wait for an approval by someone hidden in a bomb shelter. The request usually takes 48 hours, and mostly will remain the same customer unfriendly answer.
So basically these airlines tells you to go f**k yourself when something goes wrong.
Everytime I fly ME3, I just hope nothing happens. No delays, no rebooking, no bag damage, no incident. Just check in, fly, arrive, and be done.
I still can't see how EU261 would apply if he didn't take the rebooked flight.
They gave him an option, and Ben took it. No one forced him to take any flight.
N.B. supervisors are not accountants. They wouldn't care the monetary consequences.
Seems pretty clear to me.
If you originally booked a non refundable fare. They would rebook you into the non refundable fare. Accepting a new flight is like you just booked a non refundable flight.
Keep trying, you might find a lawyer stupid enough to do a class action.
As you got an interesting and informative (for the readers in the future) post out of it, I’d say it’s a reasonable €300 business expense. I know you know this and probably aren’t that upset but I get it.
None of the rationalizations, excuses you tell yourself changes the fact that you accepted an alternate. The circumstances don't matter. Your motivation was also to make sure that alternate plane didn't get booked up.
I don't know of any airline that does any differently in terms of options once accepted. Note that your booking on alternate may potentially have made a seat on that plane unavailable for sale. So there is a potential cost to them of your decision.
After that it is entirely up to them to make an exception for good will. One in 3 or less will do that.
SAS is an almost LCC and so unlikely. But worth a try.
sorry Ben, but here you are totally wrong. I am based in FRA, Germany and as a HON ein fly constantly Lufthansa. Even with my status they would do anything once I agree on an alternative. They always tell you also in the Hotline, that once you accept the alternative the original rules (if you have a refundable ticket, for sure it's refundable after that) are valid. No chance. So I never, never ever confirm anything until I do not know that it will be my final solution. Until I do not confirm anything any agent can do anything with a ticket which is status TK/UN. But if you arrive more then 3 hours late with the alternative booking you are eligible for 250,- EUR EU261 compensation. As you the ticket has Germany contact (departure FRA) you can contact a German lawyer like Dr. Böse and it will be an easy thing. reminder for the US people here: in Germany you have not cost if you fight for your rights before court and you win. then the looser has to pay everything. and in such cases it's quit crytal clear. I never lost a case when I was sueing an airline cause they had cancelt or rescheduled my flight. So in this case we say in Germany: Fass dir a die eigenen Nase - blöd gelaufen und nächstes mal schlauer sein. All the best!
EU261: SAS (or and other European Airline) must book you in the next available/quickest flight even if it is on a different airline.
Most people don’t know: even if the flight is cancelled due to bad weather or whatever they still need to book you on the quickest available alternative.
Next time: write an email to SAS with your husband in CC (to later prove that the email was sent and received) to book you on flight xxx within a reasonable timeframe of a couple of hours - if they don’t reply, book the ticket on your own and keep screenshots to show it was reasonably priced etc.
you will then have to contact the airline for reimbursement.
This is not America where you can book and cancel flights all day long without consequence because you want to "cover all possible bases".
I'd probably take the L and book a day rate at the HGI over in the Squaire, get in a nap, or if I simply had to get more time in on the review, get the LH eco flight and eat the SK flight.
This is the difference between "rules" in USA and Europe plain and simple. You would definitely be able to get refunded if this happened in USA due to a cancelled flight. Not the case in Europe. With benefits like EU261 also comes inflexibility.
Let it go, Ben. Is it right? No. Is it customer friendly? No. You can spend time and effort fighting it but your time is more valuable than that.
Typical European shit. Focus on rules rather than solving the problem. This is why we are much richer than they are.
Right on.
Because we allow the rich to avoid tax, the powerful to avoid jail, and bully everyone else who goes against us. Oh and we can "liberate" oil rich country whenever we need. We've been doing that since H.W.
As mentioned by others. Your mistake was booking X flight. Unfortunately at that point you absolved them and binded yourself.
Yes you can push the customer service line but they're not liable for your own choices.
Slow internet and/or bad timing regarding them updating their site are frustrating but you had the option to sort it upon landing where you could've talked with a person who, if you hadn't of rebooked, would still be under obligation to resolve things to an acceptable alternative.
Fyi: You have the Right to Alternate Carrier in situations like yours. An airline can suggest you take X,Y or Z flight, with them, when they can do it but that's all they can do, suggest. Aslong as you can demonstrate a flight on BA, VS, DL is of a reasonable comparison then you could have flown with whomever got you there near to your original itinerary & that best suited you. Price difference they have to pay out is irrelevant. They have to comply with your request and pay the other carrier whatever it costs.
All that made the urgency not so tangible but you have the info for the future.
NB: This isn't something I heard from a guy who knew a girl... I've used it several times over the years both long & short haul. For sure the carrier will say you "have" to book on their metal from the couple alternates that suits them but I think most agents will buckle and sort it out with just a firm "Sorry that's not right....". Think I've only had to escalate to a manger once regarding this.
the alternative arrives more the three hours later. that's enough for 250,- EUR. that's great EU customer Law.
As airlines continue to transition to AI and automated means for rebooking, even frequent travelers will find that there is no customer service or human empathy for unusual or special circumstances. Rebooking will be based strictly on availability from point A to point B with few or no other options only a rep can find and book. Better plan with plenty of cushion for off schedule operations.
the companies are richer, for sure. but your personal cost are much higher, rent, cost of living. sometimes 4-5X higher. and there are no customer protection laws in the us. yes he hast to follow the rules. if he would've followed the rules he would have been gotten everything he wanted PLUS EU261 compensation. In the us when they cancel the evening flight the even don't pay the hotel. here it is law that airlines have to do that.. I love it. so every part in the world has it's advantages and as costumer we should make profit out of that.
I can’t even fathom why you would try and even consider escalating this. It sure sucks, but those are the terms of condition, and you did indeed accept the new flight. SAS upheld its part of the contract — to get you from FRA to CPH.
Even though you’re Skyteam elite plus in J does not equal entitlement to different rules.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a lifetime SAS Gold (currently Diamond), and I loathe SAS at times, but I know the rules and obligations in the contract of carriage.
For all the shit people give US legacy airlines, their level of customer service during irregular operations is way higher. I can't imagine United, for example, handling this that way, not to mention its vastly superior app and online support options.
Email the COO and CRO to complain. I had some success doing this a few months back. Their emails are [email protected] and [email protected].
Hey Ben, I had a similar experience last summer. In the end when I applied for the refund through the line portal and explored what had happened they did kindly issue the full refund. It is kind of a "gotcha" experience on SAS, I hope you the best. But yes do fight it.
When you have strict regulation like Europe does for consumer protection, the airlines stick to the rules. You fund the requirement of what you have to do by eliminating any and all exceptions granted.
Yeah, United wouldn't do this to him. The United app would also pick up they already messed you up and let you change your mind or refund.
American I've had an issue where they rebooked me with a connection, I took it, then they wouldn't let me change back to a nonstop when my circumstances changed because I agreed to the new routing - only could standby (if I did so in the app) to the new intermediate point. Long story short, to go from DCA to CLT I ended up with a 3.5 hour sit in GSO.
Ben, I'm surprised you would consider escalating this. You accepted the new flight...
My in-laws had a similar situation in December with Spirit.
It's a catch-22 because your instinct is to confirm on something quickly so that it doesn't fill up. But if you find a better option later, then I guess you're SOL.
DOT rules don't require a refund if you "accept" an alternative, so I am skeptical that other US carriers would be more generous than they're required to be.
@Eskimo is right, Ben booked a nonref flight and only had an opportunity to ask for a refund because the airline disrupted his plans. The accepted wisdom is that such changes should only be accepted once someone has looked into the proposed changes and is actually happy with them.
Social media always claims Scandinavian countries are perfect and America is garbage. This means Ben, however nice a person he is, should suck it up and listen to SAS because they are perfect.
This may sound unreasonable but just look at social media, like Instagram. Full of memes about how Americans are all bankrupt from a pimple, are about to die from a gunshot wound tomorrow, and cannot buy gas without getting robbed while Scandinavians have free houses, health care, and public transit where a bus comes every 2 minutes taking them to any place in less than 30 minutes. America is garbage, Scandinavia is paradise, according to social media.
Scandinavians and Germans are rigid so if you selected "rebook" you have to stick with it. Sorry but thank you for alerting the readers to be very careful in the future with those people.
honestly im surprised this type of stuff doesnt happen to you more often given the crazy routings you take for review purposes with multiple unconnected legs!
I think it IS right.
There's an opportunity cost associated with people holding reservations for flights they don't take. Airline profit margins are notoriously low and I sure don't want to be subsidising such behaviour through paying higher ticket prices to compensate for all those unsold/undersold seats.
If you want customer unfriendly, try VS wring to me with the temerity to claim that duty of care obligations don't extend to schedule changes made more than 14 days before departure. I've been able to rejig my travel plans and avoid the hassle of arguing with the airline and possibly having to end up suing it, but I'll be reporting the incident to the relevant authorities in the UK.
Slightly tangential, but I have a travel insurance policy which covers misconnecting on separate tickets. Of course I always try to play it safe and leave lots of time between flights, particularly since I usually travel with checked luggage, so I haven't had to make a claim yet. There's also an excess of a couple of hundred pounds or so, so I probably wouldn't bother claiming for a missed short haul flight unless it led to the cancellation of subsequent segments within an itinerary.
Hi Ben,
How do readers share these experiences with you? I have one I think you’ll enjoy reading - maybe writing - about, but not sure how to reach out.
Having a better option later does not equate to getting a refund.
Plus you can always call the airline and see if they are willing to rebook to the better alternative.
One of the top markers of self-unaware stupidity is inability to see how something could be unclear. Congratulations, ptahcha!
Technically the agent is right, once you accept the rerouting that is that. However, the sas website has its problems, and you would not be the first to "accept" without the finality of that option being the intension.
HUCA is always an option, however as I assume your skyteam status is not with SK getting to the prio support which has actual good service agents would be really hard, if at all possible.
If you dont take the flight, they will not want to pay EU261. But the regulation doesnt say you have to take the flight, but that you have arrive to check-in. I am now in the legal dispute with Wizz over this topic (waiting for the court decision).
But I totally feel you pain with this “computer says no” approach. Once I had ANA onward flight on LH ticket cancelled, resulting in shortening my holiday in Japan and none of them were willing to change the return flight date without change fee.
What are the T&Cs of the misconnect policy - e.g. how long does the time between the two flights need to be?
I once had a misconnect policy on a European Amex card but it required a minimum of 4h between the two flights on separate tickets, and capped the amount at sth like $200 equivalent, which made it pretty much useless…
What about disputing the credit card charge? In my experience they start from the perspective of believing you, so if you explain you were "forced" into accepting a new offer without understanding the details, it might work.
You should have tried again at Frankfurt airport. Likely the second flight was full/oversold and with your status and business class they might be happy to get you off the flight. Airport staff are usualy more empowered than call centres. I am curious though by you booked a nonrefundable ticket considering your whirlwind itinerary on separate bookings and different airlines. You should always assume something will go wrong and you will not make the connection, even if you have a layover of 6+overs. In any case, you are still entitled to EU compensation due to last minute cancellation, even though you did not end up flying with them.
I think this is a big difference between European and US carriers setting aside basic economy if you have a disruption they are good at allowing you to move things around. I have been in business intra Europe on BA so not a cheap flight - get to airport early they won’t move you to earlier flight even though it’s wide open
I think folks always talk about how much better non US airlines are or are better service oriented - not sure I agree
Harumph. Fight it Ben. I lucked out with a fabulous BA agent who helped me rebook a cancelled Iberia flight ( originally booked on BA) even though I had apparently “accepted” the Iberian change of 2 DAYS! ( which I hadn’t, but apparently their website thought I had because I had clicked on the new itinerary to see WTF was going on). Not sure about EC 261 though.
Good Luck!
“How one-sided airline contracts of carriage are” … shouldn’t even be called a contract. There’s no bargaining; it’s take-it-or-leave-it. Adhesion. At least in EU/UK/Canada there are some air passenger rights legislation; have have near nothing in the US. Time for a change. We could use an EU261 equivalent. Won’t solve this or all problems but better than nothing.
Ben, as much as it pains me to say this so you are a Miami native, you should probably look to push to Flying Blue Ultimate.
Overall, the quality of the customer service is far superior and probably only similar to BA Executive Premier. That way booking your onward connection via Flying Blue would have seen you set for your preferences without the issues because of the ease of booking earlier or later flights on the day for no charge, on the assumption availability was there in the class booked.
We don't have customer protection laws that is why we have the most customer friendly stores. Even the American stores in Europe are much more customer friendly than the European ones.
I feel for you: I once "accepted" a flight change on TK in app, without any indication of travel class. The next day, I got an email showing that the new ticket was economy, not business - and it took weeks to fix it. If it had been last minute, I'd been stuck in economy for many hours...
But I don't think you have a basis for escalation:
You were given a choice of rebooking or refund, you chose rebooking! The moment you hit "accept", you are making a binding agreement!
If you now chose not to fly the new, agreed and delayed flight, you forfeit your EU261 compensation! The cancellation part of the rules no longer applies, because you accepted the changed flight & now the delay rules apply...
Yes, you were under time pressure, the UI wasn't user friendly and there were IT issues and you had specific needs - but non of that changes the agreement made! Would it be nice service from SAS to still allow you to cancel? Sure, but the EU261 rules are clear (and expensive), so airlines are not really keen to spend more money to go above & beyond...
As a very experienced traveler, you booked a risky back-to-back ticket; I'm sure you know that you have a right to transport on another airline (like the LH flight you picked);
You could have booked the LH flight with UA miles (refundable), go to the counter in FRA and insist on SAS putting you into business class on LH (Or accept Eco & get downgrade comp). If they had refused, you could have gotten a full refund and/or the additional cost of booking your own travel...
I'd let this one rest - you win some, you learn some...
I personally will never hit "accept" again, unless I know exactly what I'm getting and it is exactly what I want...
It's silent on MCTs, but it does say that public transport misconnections are covered. Not only does it not mention any exemptions, but the two examples given are about missing a flight because of a late train and missing a flight because of a late flight, so I am confident they will pay out as long as the originally booked itinerary isn't completely daft.
The fact that it's a policy directly sold, and of course underwritten by, a huge insurance company also means there's a reputational risk and limited opportunity for them to blame a broker/reseller/anyone else for vaguely written terms.
Ben, I have experience with SAS and you won't get anywhere with SAS.
Immediately take up your case with the DOT so you have a formal record. You were not given a complete set of choices through which SAS deceived you into acceptance. That is a clear-cut case.
You should have taken the rebooked SAS flight - and just got to the hotel later. If you wanted more time at the hotel you should have stayed 2 nights. A hotel is just a hotel.
I have a different view here:
You should be entitled to a refund of your Lufthansa or SAS flight and get EU 261 compensation.
This applies even if SAS claims extraordinary circumstances because SAS failed to offer you the earliest next available flight. I assume LH had another flight on sale at 12:10.
Furthermore, you (indirectly) declared an error of content (Inhaltsirrtum) with SAS shortly after you accepted their rebooking.
Anyway, please contact a lawyer (I don’t want to repeat a specific name which is often mentioned) on this case and report back on how it goes. These are not huge monetary amounts but there is value for your blog and society in general for it.
How does the DOT have jurisdiction over a flight between two EU states (hint: United States DOT)? Are they going to take over Germany AND Denmark AND Greenland?
I'm pretty sure you are entitled to compensation as they canceled your flight last minute and rebooked you on a flight with 3 hour delay. You then have the right to cancel your travels, what SAS writes in their contract shouldn't matter.
I'm pretty sure they are also obligated to refund the initial ticket costs in the case of you deciding not to continue with them, however this woud probably land before a court. Just because an airline has their contract of carriage which say customers don't have rights, doesn't mean this is law.
The EC261 compensation is the path of least resistance, but it might also be worth fighting it out a bit - so many airlines seem to have nearly non-functional or poorly functional websites as a matter of course, and that'll only change if it starts to cost them something (bad press at the very least).
It's a premium hotel in a destination while on a sequenced itinerary. Not mom&dad going to the motel in a car on the way to the American beach 😉
Welcome to Scandinavia’s favourite pastime (hating in SAS)!
Finnair you can do nothing wrong and I love you (this is not about you!)
@High Class American, please don't call yourself "self-unaware stupidity".
I feel bad for you. Just because you're too stupid to see clearly doesn't mean you should call yourself stupid.
Ben didn't book a risky back to back ticket.
He booked a risky back to bed ticket.
Are you that dumb?
Bargaining makes it a contract, LOL.
Are you that dumb?
Did you bargain your phone T&C?
Your utilities, water, etc?
Did you go to USPS and bargain I want my mail by 3pm tomorrow?
Are you that dumb?
Serious, are you that dumb?
Can you point out where was Ben "forced"?
Stop abusing credit card disputes.
It's not a buyers remorse refund.
Careful, if you praise Scandinavia too much, Trump is going to come for Scandinavia.
If I may suggest, contact Dr. Boese. Quite well known German lawyer within the community specialised on EU261 cases - several of his lawsuits have changed the landscape of passenger rights here.
He is specialised in those cases, and usually gives out free initial advice.
I have used him several times. He will only charge for lawsuits, and he only sues if he considers a win realistic.
Do not talk to SAS any further until you have his advice.
@Ben
You did not push the wrong button. You pushed the correct buttons, but just decided afterwards you did not like the option you actively selected.
It is probably a consequence of EU261 that being pushed to accept rather ardeous (for the airlines) consumer protection rules the airlines tend to be less flexible beyond the rules.
Ben, as others the European folks now mentioned, you should be entitled to a refund of your Lufthansa or SAS flight and get EU 261 compensation.
This applies even if SAS claims extraordinary circumstances because SAS failed to offer you the earliest next available flight. I assume LH had another flight on sale at 12:10.
Furthermore, you (indirectly) declared an error of content (Inhaltsirrtum) with SAS shortly after you accepted their rebooking.
Anyway, please contact a lawyer (I don’t want to repeat a specific name which is often mentioned) on this case and report back on how it goes. These are not huge monetary amounts but there is value for your blog and society in general for it.
I would escalate just to point out at that you couldn’t tell whether you were downgraded or not and just trying to find that out. It could have been a coach middle seat.
Ben , next time turn on vpn on your phone and make the call from the plane bathroom.
EC261 compensation you can definitely make. You don't need to take the alternative in order to claim. You can claim for a cancelation and say clearly that I first accepted the alternative option and then found myself a better option. They are required to provide compensation due to flight cancelation.
Also, as your actual delay was over 5 hours, you are not required to take that option.
It might be too late for my advice now, but perhaps it is useful for the next time someone is faced with this situation. Generally, the normal SAS phone hotline (with the exception of the Gold/Diamond line) are basically incompetent, so the reaction of the agent you got does not surprise me at all.
However, SAS does actually have a reprotection agreement with LH, so you could have had your flight rebooked to the 10am LH flight directly and in Business, even if you had already accepted the new flight online. The one free rebooking applies to schedule change only, not IRROPs. What you should have done is go to the desk of the handling agent at FRA and ask the agents there to rebook you onto that earlier LH flight.
But as always, hindsight is 20/20, and given that you likely no-showed for the SK flight, I don't think it is worth the time fighting this.
I may be wrong but to the best of my knowledge, EC261 still applies if you don't take the flight. What matters is what flight they offered you and in this case they didn't offer you to arrive early enough.
Now:
- it's pretty standard (at least in Europe), once you've accepted a rebook that you're out of luck (at least LHG and BA do this)
- SAS will in my understanding have to cover the 250€ compensation but not the cost of your ticket, precisely because they rebooked you - you could however claim airport taxes back from the SAS ticket
I'm surprised, like others, that you're making a big deal out of this. Accept it, move on. Tough luck, kid.
I agree, he's such an egomaniac with main character syndrome, far too much privilege, entitlement, and audacity.
If you contact SAS they will both refund you and pay the compensation. No worries!