Last week Russia’s second biggest airline, S7 Airlines, was suspended from the oneworld alliance. Now Aeroflot, Russia’s biggest airline, has been suspended from the SkyTeam alliance. I’m a bit confused by what took so long?
Continue reading: Russia’s Aeroflot Suspended From SkyTeam
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I am sick of US companies jumping into political issues for the sake of virtue signaling. Make the best product, with the best service, and sell it as much as you can, wherever it’s legal to do so. That’s what companies should be doing if they are truly private, and are not mere extensions of a government or political party.
If I am Skyteam or a Skyteam member, my alliance is already weak and I need every member I can get in order to serve the most routes, and therefore maximize the number of tickets I can sell. As far as safety goes, I am not sure that there’s a nexus between the proper title holder of the aircraft, insurance status, and actual flight safety. If there is, then obviously there’s a solid reason to cut or pause ties.
If invading other countries without a solid basis is grounds for severing all international business ties, then I hate to say it, but the US would have been isolated a long time ago.
I stopped reading after the first sentence, but I got the gist. I rely do hope for WW3 so you woke turds can understand the true value of freedom...plus there really are too many people on this planet...you know eternals right?
Instead of bashing Russia as openly as you do, and falling into the mindless cancel culture trap of extreme Russophobia, you should give an unbiased background as to why the planes haven't been returned. First of all, the leasing companies broke the contract, not Aeroflot. Aeroflot had been making its obligations. Do you seriously expect that the country's national airline is going to cripple itself by returning a large portion of its fleet, thereby severely hampering connectivity within the vast country? Of course not. It's going to protect itself and its large domestic market. Secondly, Western countries have seized billions in Russian assets, both government assets and assets of private Russian individuals. Simply put, they have stolen Russian money and property. It stands to reason that this failure to return the planes is a part of a tit-for-tat response, which is the norm in international politics.
And for those saying this suspension from Skyteam is warranted, well, I don't see you cheering for Skyteam to suspend China Eastern or Saudia, though both of the countries they operate from are massive human rights abusers. Delta could be included too (human rights abuses at the US's southern border, the US perpetuating instability in the Middle East via two questionable wars and an intervention in Syria, how the US abandoned its Afghan allies to the brutal Taliban regime, etc.)
Let's just be realistic. None of the major countries are innocent lambs, and if one is punished, then ALL should be punished. And each abuser should be held accountable by everyone. Most of you hate Russia because the media tells you to. Western media, Russian media - all biased propaganda. The truth is somewhere in the middle, as usual. But, as usual, most people are too dumb or driven by hatred to seek the truth.
Private or not, Aeroflot is an arm of the Russian government and should be kicked out of SkyTeam. It only adds to the SkyTeam alliance insofar that the carrier has an extensive network in Russia and into the caucuses and Central Asia. However, travel to those places from points outside the former USSR is still very thin. It shouldn’t be that way as many of those places have much to offer tourists and businesses, but the reality is that many still see those places as hands-off, so SU exiting SkyTeam is not a big deal.
The world needs to cut Russia off from the entire global economy. If any other commenters saw what happened in Bucha (where they executed men, women and children after raping them) or Mariupol (where they bombed a theater with the russian word for “kids” painted on the ground outside) they would agree that this is not “virtue signaling” but an effort to blockade russia for the war crimes it’s president has ordered and soldiers are happily carrying out.
You sound like a Russian troll to me. If Putin hadn’t invaded Ukraine, none of this would have happened. The world is holding Russia accountable for its sins, and one day the Russian people will rise up as it did in the early 20th century and dethrone their czar. For now, however, the rest of the white world will demand that Russia respect others’ right to self-determination and will make the lives of the Russian people difficult until they do.
It wouldn't be so surprising to people that the Russian airlines made it this long in the alliances if they realized that the world doesn't always revolve around the US and Western Europe. There are life forms elsewhere in the world.
And right or wrong, most of that world is far less outraged about what Russia is doing. The idea that it would be some foregone conclusion that a global alliance where 2/3 of the airlines are from countries that don't care about this conflict (or in some cases support it) is reflective of the fact that many in the west and the media live in a bubble where phrases like "global consensus" or "the world has come together" has just come to mean countries that comprise less than 30% of the global population.
@Lars: If they are truly private, then they can do whatever they want, politically or otherwise. Just ask Ron DeSantis.
Although Russia has decided it is more important to invade a sovereign country than be a part of the global aviation community, the decision to remove Aeroflot is as much if not more economic. With sanctions in place and likely to stay in place for years to try to repay Ukraine for the damage that Russia has caused, it is increasingly difficult for money to flow between Russia and the rest of the world even if Russia wants to pay its dues to other Skyteam carriers. And since Russia is seizing western assets, the chances are high that there is no way that Aeroflot can economically share anything with Skyteam airlines.
This isn't a political but an economic outcome and one that Russia appears content to have happen.
One needs to take a look at the SkyTeam agreement for the answer. SkyTeam includes carriers in countries are not necessarily on board with sanctioning Russia (China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). If a suspension or removal of a member requires all members to agree, I can see why it didn't happen that quickly.
From a purely practical standpoint, it makes sense that Aeroflot and SkyTeam came to an "agreement". It saves face for all parties involved.
Skyteam is based in Holland, I do not see it as US alliance as others have implied. Absolutely appropriate that they have been dropped/removed/withdrawn as they can not fullfill their obligations. As a Skyteam Platinum member, I would now never fly them anyway.
I agree with you they should be terminated but both your points are really poor choices
1) Skyteam has many airlines from nations whose countries more or less have a neutral or support Russia diplomatically, so there will be no full consensus reached on terminating Aeroflot
2) Aeroflot route is very extensive with many in Europe, North America, south/east/Central Asia and MENA. I have flown their A350 to India and Japan, and their B777 + A330 to Dubai, New York and Bangkok. That being said most of pax are always Russians and it is rare for foreigners to use Moscow as a transit points
Russia is a nation of cheats, liars, murderers, and thieves. It's about time the world stopped pretending they are anything other than a front for their own mafia. Dishonest, corrupt, inept creeps, they are morally bankrupt and incapable of following any rules or behaving like responsible adults.
Screw Russia, and all of Putin's scummy boot-licking trolls, forever.
Russophobia - the approved Kremlin talking point for all Putin's trolls. The world will be a better place after some brave Russian puts a bullet in Putin's head. It won't be long, you fascist scum.
If their planes are not insured and by definition do not meet international standards of certification/airworthiness, they should not be part of any international alliance. End of.
Air Koryo anyone?
Well said Jesse. Now I'll just sit back and wait to be called a russian troll since i dont agree with the xenophobic comments of the experts on this board.
It is just sad how Russia is willingly giving away a lot of progress in all fields for this unjust and senseless war that will not even bring them any tangible benefit. It's not like Russia was lacking land, any resources found in Ukraine or safety from threats.
Their aerospace sector has been making significant steps forward prior to the invasion - with massive upgrades to ATC/safety as well as product on both Aeroflot and S7, but also by designing their new Irkut MS-21 aircraft in conjunction with leading western companies.
All the public international goodwill from hosting the winter Olympics in Sochi 2014 and football world cup in 2018 - gone as well.
Most countries have a minimum age for their leaders to ensure they have some life experience. I'd argue that a maximum age of around 60 should be introduced as well. This would prevent further drifting towards gerontocracy, both Putin (who is obviously not healthy if you look at videos from the last 12 months) and Biden (whose health deficits are more than obvious) show exactly why it would be a good idea.
The leasing companies did not break the contract, they cancelled it - this is part of the contract and therefore perfectly legal. The contract then requires the airline to return the planes, which Aeroflot and other did not do, therefore they violated the contract, not the leasing companies.
Very few companies make the “best product” or provide the “best service”. Most are simply trying to maximise profit, which inevitably means reducing expenditure as much as possible, whilst still charging the highest price possible (ie Economics 101).
Incidentally, “truly private” doesn’t mean what you seem to think it does. It is generally public/listed companies which are under the most pressure to conform to societal influence, whereas “truly private” companies only need to satisfy the objectives of the owner - which often go far beyond pure money-making (ie Musk buying Twitter, Abramovich buying Chelsea FC, Clinton buying a pizza restaurant etc).
Oh, and more routes doesn’t necessarily mean more potential for selling tickets. I’m guessing you don’t run an airline (or a business school) (or anything else)
Putting aside the whole politics and private company piece that's not how it works.
(1) sky team is not a US company. They are based in Holland.
(2) sky team does not sell tickets. If a member (e.g. DL) sells a ticket sky team gets none of that money. Grossly simplified their buisness is in the connection from one member airline to another. That brings us to
(3) since Aeroflot does not fly outside of Russia anymore and most other members don't fly into Russia there is not a whole lot of people connecting from Aeroflot to any other airline.
This is a good decision once you take politics out of it.
Troll. Russia invaded a sovereign nation and is murdering its citizens and forced over 6million to seek refuge in other countries. Obliterated a city and is holding over 200,000 residents hostage. Forcing Ukrainians into camps and dispersing them into remote parts of Russia.
You make very good comments and I agree with You.
Its interesting how most persons in this post they have a very negative opinion about Russia and Aeroflot, they really failed to understand how the geopolitical world works, how they move the chess pieces, how much they can influence there citizens and they wrap themselves in their flags without having any critical thinking.
Knowing that most persons in this post suppose to had travel and to know the world, I thought they will be more critical and intelligent.
What a spineless, white nationalist, tiny-handed little cuck you are. The sole reason Putin has invaded post-Trump is because he doesn't have the orange-faced moron doing his bidding anymore and threatening to pull out of NATO, and because NATO has come back to life under Biden. Seriously - go fck yourself, twat.
Well, to Me He sound and writes like a very intelligent person, critical and knows what he´s saying. You have to understand that this conflict its not the beginning but rather the continuation of a proxy war that started in 2014 between the USA and Russia in Ukraine.
USA make the first chess move when it help, contribute and support the coup d état, after 2014 they also supply, arm, and trained the Ukraine government, along with supporting been part of NATO.
All this was the red line for Russia.
Good move re Aeroflot.
However, the ME3 continue to fly into Moscow!
Why arent Western Governments suspending the ME3 traffic rights to our countries, unless they stop flying to Moscow?
Because we're not looking to make additional enemies that affect our fuel prices.
Aeroflot won't be upset about the fact that you won't fly with them lol. US keeps pushing Boeing 737 max and no one can say anything.
US apparently is a "Saint Angel" destroying countries in early 2000s. Syria, Iran, Iran, Afghanistan etc. No one needed US bloody democracy. Democracy is from Greece, not from US. Open your eyes. US doesn't even gave basic healthcare like in Russia. Keep living in your US Demicratic bubble and fairytale of bringing peace to destroyed countries.
The 3 alliances should have kicked out the US and UK airlines when they invaded Iraq in 2003. The invasion was completely illegal under international law. Iraq was allowing UN weapons inspectors to search for nonexistent WMD. Iraq did nor attack the US or UK, in spite of the lies told to the public.
If we're going to tout principles and rule of law, the justice should be blind and all aggressors prosecuted for war crimes.
While your principle is correct, there's a big difference.
The actions by the alliance here are as a result of sanctions being declared preventing airline operations across various countries, and the consequence that Russian airlines are now operating equipment in violation of those sanctions. It's not just a decision based on the alliance deciding an invasion was illegal - in fact it's nothing to do directly with that, but subsequent rulings out of that.
In the US/UK example, it would not be appropriate as alliances are not making legal decisions penalising companies based on invasions by the parent country. e.g. if that was all it was, how could action be taken against S7 as a private company?
"Zelenskyy brought this upon himself"
Do you blame the victim for everything, or only in this case?
Putin CHOSE to invade. Nobody forced him. Nobody still forces him.
Although it doesn't suit the Russian narrative, in the clearest case of worldwide views on the matter, 141 countries out of 193 voted to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and called for Russia to withdraw its invasion forces. 35 abstained and 5 voted against.
That's 73% of the world saying Russia is in the wrong. So yes it does demonstrate a global consensus. A long way from the "30%" you just made up to try to support Russia.
CNN, yes your claims are absurd.
Russian trolls just want to deflect from the truth, so come up with multiple narratives. Russians tried to claim civilians were killed after Russians left. Realising that has been proved false you now switch to suddenly claiming they were killed while Russians were there. But just make up that "Russians enjoyed local support."
No, they weren't. People getting raped don't support the rapists invading. People getting looted don't enjoy the invaders stealing. And people getting killed don't support the killers conquesting. Russians in Bucha had no support. The evidence comes in the autopsies of those who died. Showing they were shot by bullets. Ukrainian artillery doesn't fire bullets. And bullets don't come from outside the town. Some even died of starvation! Because they were locked up to free the access for Russians. And of course if they went out they were shot and killed. By Russians.
You only damage your reputation and image more with lies like the above.
Andrew, what happened in 2014, when you say the war started?
Oh, that's when Russia first invaded Ukraine. Which Ukraine has been defending itself from since then.
So, yes, this all started due to Russia. So it's obvious that actions need to be taken against the Russian aggressor to stop it.
Cash Putin's check quickly, you boot-licking nazi. Putin's "headache" will soon be cured by someone administering a lead aspirin to the back of his head while he's shitting on a Kremlin toilet, and you'll need to suck off the next dictator to get your payments.
Mh, russia did invade Ukraine in 2014 just days after the democratically elected president of Ukraine was overthrown in a bloody coup supported and orchestrated by the west.
In retaliation russia took back the Crimea and encouraged a rebellion in Donetsk and luhansk.
If you're going to use facts why not provide all of them?
Democracy isn’t perfect. But the alternatives are too ridiculous to even contemplate. See: history.
Zallenskyy was a comedian and shortly after becoming the President of Ukraine pleaded unrealistically to join the EU. Why would the EU ever take in a large country with a poor economy ?
Zallenskyy then had the opportunity to sit down with the most powerful leader in the world at the time ; President of the United States who expressed wishes that he would sit down with Putin and the 2 could work things out. He didn’t listen.
Putin is an evil murderous thug and should be captured. I wish the UK and EU would have done more to protect the rest of the world as this is happening in their backyard.
Yeah, but really, who are you trying to kid.... that "less than 30% of the global population" holds nearly 60% of global wealth, and an even higher percentage of global weaponry-- the two being the only tangible things that any country actually gives a shit about.
Flown Aeroflop 20 years ago and the standard treatment to British passengers awful and racist attitude.. but never forgotten ….. so now we know Russian steal anything for there greeds to become fatter and greedier ….
The fact that you are mixing Ukraine joining NATO with EU pretty much sums up everything about you
Also fyi he did want to sit down, they were begging to be on table, but NATO kept on negotiating themselves and Putin also kept declining their request
So please get out of this comment section with your made up fantasies of what has happened
For all of the Russia bashers and those saying the white nations should come to Ukraine's rescue, where were you when 14k, almost all white people, were killed in the past 8 years in eastern Ukraine? Were you sleeping or simply unaware because CNN and MSNBC never informed you? It is time to wake up and see this war for what it is - a proxy war by the US and NATO against Russia. In eastern Ukraine the Russians are welcomed as heros - women even hand them flowers. For them this a civil war. The US could have prevented this disaster by forcing Kiev to abide by the Minsk accords and sit down with Russia. Instead they sent weapons and military trainers - there never was a desire for peace.
I flew Aeroflot in 2018 - great airline and even had good food - the same cannot always be said of Russia itself!
Why do you ignore the 14,000 civilians, mostly ethnic russians, killed at the hands of the Kiev regime over the past 8 years, primarily by true white nationalists? Those white nationalists are the root cause of this mess. Somehow you believe the commenter is a white nationalist little cuck yet you are supporting a govt that openly supports actual, honest to good, white nationalists.
I want say that Aeroflot airline has suspended flights from jfk to Moscow you can only fly from Georgia Istanbul and Azerbaijan that’s only place’s you can fly from
I want say that Aeroflot airline has suspended flights from jfk to Moscow you can only fly from Georgia Istanbul and Azerbaijan that’s only place’s you can fly from
Hmm, the question here is why they cancel the lease? Unlawful sanctions against Russia caused that lease cancelation, right? There is no such word in world law order known as a sanction... a 100% product of the western countries and US.
Imagine using that as a defence anywhere: “Your honour, sure I killed her, but a bunch of murderers killed people and you never caught them or convicted them either, so you should let me go.”
The ME3 are not imposing our sanctions, which is unfortunate, but that’s the nature of sovereignty. They can run their country the way they see fit, as long as they’re not purposefully undermining (yes I realize this is an ambiguous term) our sanctions. You simply cannot make an enemy out of everyone that doesn’t agree with everything you do.
These punishments are reserved for those directly responsible for undermining global security.
What health deficits? Because he has a speech impediment? Jefferson had the same issue, plus dyslexia. In fact, almost all the great presidents had their own issues: https://ursdayton.org/presidents-with-disabilities/
But that did not stop them from becoming great presidents. The only impediment would be prejudicial and judgemental voters
@Eve
Nothing mixed up. NATO is a military alliance. The EU is composed of a group of nations whose economies are aligned.
Anyways I don’t think harming everyday Russian people or preventing them from flying Aeroflot is the answer . Freezing assets of Russian oligarchs and capturing Putin ? Of course.
Are you blind? His team is hiding Biden from the public exactly because of his problems. He is rarely allowed to hold a press conference as his dementia/alzheimer's/parkinson has already progressed so much that he is constantly confused.
If you tell me that this old gerontocrat is the best and wisest the US, a country of more than 300 million, can come up with, than this country is destined to fail.
Well, US and allies want to steal $ of the Russian rich, with one excuse or another, so I do not see fit to call these planes "stolen" - maybe temporarily confiscated. Once war is over lets hope this stuff all gets sorted out.
If I had my way there wouldn't even BE an Aeroflot. I want Russia totally cut-off from the rest of the world, to the greatest extent possible.
Did I say he was the wisest? But he sure chose a good team, like Jake Sullivan. The fact that you're insinuating he's being "hidden" (he's not) or claiming, with no factual backing, that he's dementia shows you're more interested in launching personal attacks with no evidence to support it that assessing whether he's an effective president. Regardless, he's sure a lot better than the lying (fact), Putin friendly (fact) orange (fact) baffoon (ok this one was gratuitous).
"The evidence comes in the autopsies of those who died. Showing they were shot by bullets. Ukrainian artillery doesn't fire bullets"
Oh, really? So what is the Ukrainian artillery firing then? Rose petals and lollipops?
How about restricting Aeroflot from transporting cargo and adding additional passenger security screening instead ? I don’t see what restricting everyday Russians from traveling accomplishes. Putin’s life line is Oil.
I do not watch Fox News, other than to get a quick look at the western viewpoint much like I do with CNN. One needs to better understand the reasons behind this conflict and how the United States interfered where it should have stayed out; the equivalent would be Russia staging a coup in Mexico.
Your analogy is quite flawed. Try this - a bunch of our friends and family have been murdered by a much larger group over the past 8 years but we lack the resources and personnel to prevent this from happening. Third parties mediate between us and come up with an acceptable solution. However, the larger group decides that they have no need to comply and they continue the killing. Friends from abroad offer to assist and we gladly accept their assistance. They begin to destroy our enemies and insist on insuring that their capabilities are damaged for a long time to come. We greet them with thanks and even flowers (this has actually been happening in Donetsk). While you may certainly disagree, those in Donbass certainly do not. Many have told the Russian media and others that they have been waiting for someone to come to their assistance for years. Western media is not embedded with the Russians so you will likely not hear these stories unless you follow the other side of the war. I am appalled at the destruction I see, but I understand that blind acceptance of the regime in Kiev will never resolve this problem. Ukraine is already suffering from a lack of skilled soldiers so all the "free" weapons in the world will not result in their winning.
The same money they earned with the suffering and exploitation of millions of Russian citizens and using their corrupted government? I can more then assure you, most of these “rich” haven’t earned their money through any clean means. When I was posted in Moscow, we did our business by bribing officials, our own local partner, who is himself someone with very high standing, paid a lot of money to various arms and used various contacts of the government to get favours for our business done. I literally know many in the upper class circle of Moscow who are very much tied to the government and corruption is rapid amongst almost all of them. You will never succeed in Russia without donating $$$ and having connections
Trump loudly called out Germany for missing their NATO obligations (only spending 1.1% of GDP instead of 2% for years) and becoming energy-dependent on Russia with their gas pipelines.
I can't see how Putin would like a strong NATO in Europe and significantly less revenue from gas & oil sales. If Germany had listened to Trump and acted accordingly, Russia would not have been able to start this war.
And extensive training of Ukrainian army by US instructors has already begun years ago under Trump. Again, I can't see how this would profit Putin in any way.
Oh, I don't know. Maybe because Russia is slaughtering thousands of innocent Ukrainians. (Doesn't that make YOU angry?)
Then all Ukrainian airlines should have been cut-off from the rest of the world, since 2014 when Kiev starting bombing Donbass. I do not remember you ever making any comments to this affect when Lucky reviewed a Ukrainian airline.
Politics aside, because the idea that Russia's government is the sole culprit of the current conflict and NATO and the Ukraine government are as innocent as the pure driven snow is absurd to any adult with a brain, the real question should be what are the effects of economic war on business and the consumer. Any honest legal adjudication of the situation would conclude the leasing companies broke their contracts with Aeroflot under the duress of political decisions made by US and European governments and Aeroflot responded in kind. And that SkyTeam and Aeroflot, because of government intervention cannot continue to fulfil their contracts. And all this the result of Political Elites expanding a security conflict in to an economic war. And what does economic war accomplish? It benefits the Military Corporations and Elite Politicians while it harms the common citizen as legitimate peaceful business is dragged into war. It prolongs a conflict purposefully for military arms sales which kills hundreds of thousands of common citizens.