The next year should be pretty exciting for Qantas, as the airline will start taking delivery of Airbus A350-1000s, which will be used for the world’s longest flights, and will feature an all-new passenger experience. Ahead of this launch, it’s interesting who won’t be invited into first class on these planes (thanks to Live and…
Continue reading: Qantas Bans All Staff (Including CEO) From New Airbus A350 First Class
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
This is definitely a smart move by the airline and I too am glad Alan won't be travelling in it (for free anyway). I imagine even points upgrades will be hard to come by, these nonstops will be quite popular with the wealthy Aussies... and there are a lot of them! 🙂
@ smc422 -- Positive space means that it can be confirmed at booking, subject to availability. That's different than space available travel, which is when you're on standby, and can fill any empty seats on the day of departure.
Wow. So Project Sunrise will be complete before Lufthansa has Allegris seats rolled out fleet wide. Too funny.
So, will QF execs and employees be able to fly in first class on a standby basis?
Business class is enough for nearly everyone. A bed (lie-flat) and nicer meals on long-haul flights is ample ‘thanks’ for years of service. Honestly, if it’s ‘free,’ economy is great, too. When traveling ‘OPM’ (other peoples’ money), beggars shouldn’t be choosers. Australia yet again does something right (like, actually updating their laws when tragedy happens, rather than just throwing up hands, tots n pears…)
You were onto something with ‘Luftkafka’…
Whenever they do eventually get it done, I’m still gonna try Allegris (and attempt it around the holidays for that roast goose… @Alan Z!)
OPM beggars...lol.
So true. The people that whine how upgrade space is disappearing are the ones who dont pay for their seats anyway. Shut up and enjoy what your corporate overlord tells you.
Do you know what the word ‘banned’ means?
Presumably they buy a ticket or indeed use their travel privileges provided seats have gone unsold.
So indeed under nones definition of the word have they been banned from first class.
Yeah, I think limited is the right word here.
Qantas is limiting the employee privileges.
I believe that all US airlines allow their employees to fly standby in any class the airline offers so the notion of any cabin being "off limits" is not a part of the US airline industry.
Most US airline employee travel is standby to comply w/ IRS regulations that air travel is of no value since it is "given away" at the last minute. I am sure some airlines do have some positive space provisions but it is taxable under IRS regulations.
I also think US airline execs can fly any class positive space not just on their airline but on most others.
as Ben has noted, there are pretty extensive standby agreements between US airlines
Given the salaries/wealth of most major airline top executives and board members, they can easily purchase first class tickets... just like other high net worth passengers.
@Tim, rules always change, but when I was working on a consulting project at United a few years back, United execs (might have been VP and up), didn't fly positive space. They flew and were booked as revenue passengers through a United's UATP card. They even had GS status.
DTW,
I can believe that.
There may be tax and revenue reasons why some airlines do things one way and others do it another way.
Positive space travel does exist in the US industry, is usually reserved for business travel and also includes crew and non--exec business travel - but when done for personal travel reasons, it has to be taxed to the employee.
some US airlines allow positive space coach booking with standby upgrade to higher classes, again for tax and revenue reasons.
But I'm sure if staff are willing to pay full price like everybody else, that wouldn't be a problem?!
So, ninetyben, you enjoyed your Emirates A380 flight …. we missed you darlink, Merry Christmas …. Xxxx
Good idea. My husband and myself had booked business class seats together on a Qantas flight. When our boarding passes were issued we were at opposite ends of the business cabin. My booked seat was occupied by a Qantas pilot.
All board directors or senior staff are generously compensated /remunerated for their roles . So I suggest to give them only access to empty seats , stand by ...
The title is misleading.
Current non exec staff that are entitled to first class will be able to fly it on standby as usual.
Only board and exec are restricted from it, not all staff.
I think that's fair enough. It still prevents the moochers from booking free tickets.
If NO Staff Are Allowed In It/them
Who Going To Be Doing The Cleaning, tidying & refreshing the trays, tv screens, & AND Linen ?
Seems Physically, literally impossible ! ! !
Investors expect returns on their investment. Execs get paid enough already to afford to fly comfortably.
Er, no. Not quite correct ...
Over the past few weeks, there has been a very high profile case of certain politicians / staffers attending a conference in New York, where three (3) airfares alone were racked up at a total cost of AUD S90K. Public outcry has forced the Government to re-examine Govt spending on politician's public travel costs and policy changes re. travel are being implemented as we speak. Those changes appear to restrict such travel to a maximum of J Class, at best.
This tends to happen in Australia every 7-8 years and public opinion tends to keep things somewhat on track. Additionally, our Prime Minister and currently serving Ministers have access to the RAAF VIP fleet (refurbished A330's for intn'l) - although 'last-minute' travel is permitted on commercial carriers.
Bear in mind that the current article is about the ability of *QF staff* (some 30K employees, not counting their families) to access First Class travel. The current global philosophy of airlines to abandon or downsize First cabins will undoubtedly see an increased focus on how travel in this class is managed.
Very sensible ! I think the Executives get a good enough wage to be able to pay for 1st class. Now they can experience what it’s like travelling with less comfort! Bring it on!
This explains why I was unsuccessful in upgrades for over 2 years as a lowly QF Platinum.
Made me reassess my loyalty.
Kudos to Ben for acknowledging the damage that Joyce did to QANTAS during his tenure. You won't find this critical stance from the biased, arse-kissing 'Executive Traveller' website (Australia's most prominent airline website).
Happened to me on AA F but at check in I showed my confirmation and the offending employee was kicked out of the seat. Boy did we get a dirty look when he boarded.
From multiple friends who work at AA, QF has the worst reciprocal seating privileges for airline employees of any major airline out there.
It wont be easy to find new board members;
Gives customers the feeling that these seats will never be affordable and they might switch to an airline where they have more chances of getting a flashy seat.
The person that wrote this is not an executive at Qantas
I agree. When using staff travel QF employees still pay for it, obviously a much lower fare, but it’s not free unlike execs who have a number free sectors per year.
And middle management who are entitled to first class will be able to fly it after all upgrades requests have cleared.
Most people in the comments below have no idea how seat prioritisation works. Almost all airlines have roughly 100 point priority list based on fare type or staff booking type. What differs from airline to airline is the order in the points priority.
Staff leasure travel is always lower that a paid ticket and in most airlines lower than an loyalty upgrade fair.
In the case of staff business travel is high priority. CX for example allows stuff business travel in first or lower based on availability..but staff leasure is capped at business if available which it never is.
Staff leasure travel with a family is basically useless with most international airlines and as a result most get 2 tickets per year with comfirmed status which has a priority 1 point above paid customers.
Haha ...Alan Joyce could certainly afford to pay the full fare if he wants to with the $10 of millions he made from Qantas....not to worry about him.
Since your article is less than 24-hoyrs, in your article, you mentioned Alan Joyce, won't be flying the new A350, definitely as he has been removed/ resigned from Qantas, hence he is no longer involved in Project Sunrise
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT,
The current CEO of the Qantas Group is Vanessa Hudson, who took over from Alan Joyce in September 2023, becoming the first woman to lead Australia's national carrier. She previously served as the Group's CFO and is focused on improving customer satisfaction, employee relations, and navigating significant fleet investment.
And neither for their own Frequent Fliers too! If you try and book an A380 first class award seat, there are none available, so zero chance on the A350. Qantas has a pretty good FF program but they know we have limited options in Au and so we get taken for granted.
It’s not difficult to find board members, at all; and take it from me, just about everyone who sits on the board of major Australian public company can well and truly afford to buy their own first class tickets.
Not only Joyce, but Geoff Dixon before him. They both made big profits (and huge bonuses) by cutting costs to the bone and gutting the customer experience. Then there’s the total lack of meaningful fleet renewal, leaving geriatric 737s and A330s in service long after their competition had started flying next-generation types. Good riddance to both of them.
i fully agree with the decision of the
CEO of Qantas airways the rule is rule
it is applicable to every one regardless
of whether serving or retired, executive
or non executives or senior management
cadres no one should use the first class
it has to be sold to revenue passengers
there are some corporate houses who send
their executives for business travel seminars company meeting visits to foreign
collaborators and trade conferences etc.
all executives and senior officers should be
eligible for business class only. if business is filled up with revenue passengers already
they should be offered economy class only
on firm basis for duty travel as staff on leave travel (vacation travel) this way the company can save lot of money and get goodwill of corporate executives of several
companies but politicians will misuse this rule in australia. this happens in india very much when it was under the ownership of
the govt of india. i like this idea i want other airlines to follow suit. thanks
Very good. The gravy train stops at the station. The rich bludgers have to get off now.
Executive Traveller is absolute rubbish. It's just paid promotions and recycled media content.
There are no coach (economy) seats on the Project Sunrise A350 planes, only first, business and premium economy.
Flying business class, or even premium economy is hardly a hardship
It will last way longer. They need the economics to work so the financials look nice, then these executives and board members will be rewarded with nice gains in their holdings. That will pay for plenty of first class seats.
Should apply to business class as well, they all made plenty of dollars at the time of employment. Stop the gouging, current and ex pollies should be excluded as well!
This is a foolish new rule. Give the perks conditionally. The exec can always be moved back. An AI program can manage it. Result no loss of revenue and happy management
The illusion of staff perks. In 25 years as staff I received one upgradable business class seat which I so greatful for I paid a minimal service fee for.
These upgrades after that never happened despite the possibility as commercial upgrades frequent flyers politicians members of the board or positioning crew were always given seats.
In the case in question it's good to know despite the boards exorbitant salaries controlling share allocation and previous payouts for service rendered to the airline that they will be made to suffer business class instead of first class allocation unless they pay full fare which I'm sure they can and claim a tax write off.
The board like the rest of the world needs an Elon musk department of efficiency to check economics allocation of wages for board members and fringe benefits from top to bottom .
Previous CEO Joyce famous quote was can't control price of fuel or aircraft but can control wages by getting the airline to offload the wages and workcare to contractors and then have them bid for it annually you can effectively reduce operational costs by 10 _ 20 percent a year by rostering full time staff to non penality times and covering loading periods with full part time staff you can effectively cut wages of penalty
periods during Joyce rain how much was he given in remuneration wages including bonuses and what operational profit was returned to the investors what abuse of government hand outs bailouts during COVID and treatment of remaining employees engineers crew and still no reduction in the boards free lunches remuneration and payouts in fact Joyce's bonuses matched or exceeded his annual wage all in millions the leprakon migrated from Ireland to Australia to find his pot of gold and if you scratch the surface his super exceed gdp
I don’t know about Qantas but BA’s policy on this was always offering seats to staff as part of their employment package on a discounted price and/or long service and seniority basis but ALWAYS subjected to space being available after all commercial paying passengers had been accommodated once the flight had been closed immediately prior to departure . I was a senior manager and travelled far and wide on both business and leisure and that rule was always applied.
It was frustrating trying to attend meetings overseas and regardless of status, grade or length of service, fare paying passengers came first, hence staff being placed on standby at the gate until the flight was closed. On extreme cases for urgent overseas appointments and at the discretion of the Red cap and captain, occasionally a jump seat may be offered if available but a rare exemption.
I don’t know about other airlines and I have been retired from BA for a few years now, but that policy seemed fair and understood. Regardless of cabin entitlement and grade, fare paying passengers came first right up until the flight was closed ready for departure- additionally there was was an age restriction for children under 12 for any staff with a first class entitlement regardless of space being available.
The perks are extended to former executives, hence why Joyce was brought up as he still retains those flying benefits.
Alan Joyce did not damage qantas. That's something all reputable commentators agree on
He saved q dieing COVID: rather brutally and at no cost to gvt, and q had to pay a somewhat small fine as a result.
Over his tenure, he had very progressive emp.right policies which saved q billions
Though he didn't invest in the fleet which would have driven service and profits even higher.
Wouldn't want it known to 'peasants' that an airline high-up was in Economy Class, an uncomfortable flight would result .
Why are past executives still getting Perks when I can't even book a points flight to 95% of the places I want to go.
It should be like this all along, given the fact that qantas staff are already handsomely rewarded for the job they do.
If you search for "project sunrise a350 seating map" you will find a link to the pages ar Qantas's website. There they clearly state there will be first, business, premium economy (2-4-2), and economy (3-3-3).
As stated, they will not get confirmed seats but I wonder if they will still be able to book standby for FC as many airlines allow standby bookings.
Dem stimme ich voll und ganz zu. Warum Millionäre Vergünstigungen erhalten sollten, ist mir schleierhaft.
But, Singapore operates a 350-900ULR with business and premium economy (2-4-2) omly.
I respect the Opinion but why Qantas Is doing it? I hope Singapore Airlines doesn't ban anyone on their Newly retrofitted A350s.
Having been downgraded on a LAX to SYD flight (in paid first) for a QF staffer……ill believe it when i see it!!!!
The ban needs to include Anika Wells (the Minister for Communications and Sport)
Interesting given some employee groups have 1st class travel in their employment contract or EBA and ostensibly gave up other benefits/pay/conditions in the negotiation process to have it included. Will QF be renegotiating those contracts or simply breaching them?
IT IS OBVIOUS YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF PILOT CONTRACTS OF HOW STAFF TRAVEL WORKS. WHY WOULD YOU?? ANOTHER AVIATION EXPERT??
Weird. Qantas does something sensible.
What is ‘positive space first class’?
@ smc422 -- Positive space means that it can be confirmed at booking, subject to availability. That's different than space available travel, which is when you're on standby, and can fill any empty seats on the day of departure.
This is definitely a smart move by the airline and I too am glad Alan won't be travelling in it (for free anyway). I imagine even points upgrades will be hard to come by, these nonstops will be quite popular with the wealthy Aussies... and there are a lot of them! 🙂
Wow. So Project Sunrise will be complete before Lufthansa has Allegris seats rolled out fleet wide. Too funny.
You were onto something with ‘Luftkafka’…
Whenever they do eventually get it done, I’m still gonna try Allegris (and attempt it around the holidays for that roast goose… @Alan Z!)
So, ninetyben, you enjoyed your Emirates A380 flight …. we missed you darlink, Merry Christmas …. Xxxx
So, will QF execs and employees be able to fly in first class on a standby basis?
I believe that all US airlines allow their employees to fly standby in any class the airline offers so the notion of any cabin being "off limits" is not a part of the US airline industry.
Most US airline employee travel is standby to comply w/ IRS regulations that air travel is of no value since it is "given away" at the last minute. I am sure some airlines do have some positive space provisions but it is taxable under IRS regulations.
I also think US airline execs can fly any class positive space not just on their airline but on most others.
as Ben has noted, there are pretty extensive standby agreements between US airlines
@Tim, rules always change, but when I was working on a consulting project at United a few years back, United execs (might have been VP and up), didn't fly positive space. They flew and were booked as revenue passengers through a United's UATP card. They even had GS status.
DTW,
I can believe that.
There may be tax and revenue reasons why some airlines do things one way and others do it another way.
Positive space travel does exist in the US industry, is usually reserved for business travel and also includes crew and non--exec business travel - but when done for personal travel reasons, it has to be taxed to the employee.
some US airlines allow positive space coach booking with standby upgrade to higher classes, again for tax and revenue reasons.
Business class is enough for nearly everyone. A bed (lie-flat) and nicer meals on long-haul flights is ample ‘thanks’ for years of service. Honestly, if it’s ‘free,’ economy is great, too. When traveling ‘OPM’ (other peoples’ money), beggars shouldn’t be choosers. Australia yet again does something right (like, actually updating their laws when tragedy happens, rather than just throwing up hands, tots n pears…)
OPM beggars...lol.
So true. The people that whine how upgrade space is disappearing are the ones who dont pay for their seats anyway. Shut up and enjoy what your corporate overlord tells you.
Do you know what the word ‘banned’ means?
Presumably they buy a ticket or indeed use their travel privileges provided seats have gone unsold.
So indeed under nones definition of the word have they been banned from first class.
Yeah, I think limited is the right word here.
Qantas is limiting the employee privileges.
Reserved for politicians.
Er, no. Not quite correct ...
Over the past few weeks, there has been a very high profile case of certain politicians / staffers attending a conference in New York, where three (3) airfares alone were racked up at a total cost of AUD S90K. Public outcry has forced the Government to re-examine Govt spending on politician's public travel costs and policy changes re. travel are being implemented as we speak. Those changes appear to restrict such travel to a maximum of J Class, at best.
This tends to happen in Australia every 7-8 years and public opinion tends to keep things somewhat on track. Additionally, our Prime Minister and currently serving Ministers have access to the RAAF VIP fleet (refurbished A330's for intn'l) - although 'last-minute' travel is permitted on commercial carriers.
Bear in mind that the current article is about the ability of *QF staff* (some 30K employees, not counting their families) to access First Class travel. The current global philosophy of airlines to abandon or downsize First cabins will undoubtedly see an increased focus on how travel in this class is managed.
Given the salaries/wealth of most major airline top executives and board members, they can easily purchase first class tickets... just like other high net worth passengers.
But I'm sure if staff are willing to pay full price like everybody else, that wouldn't be a problem?!
Good idea. My husband and myself had booked business class seats together on a Qantas flight. When our boarding passes were issued we were at opposite ends of the business cabin. My booked seat was occupied by a Qantas pilot.
The executives can always fly in the coach section.
All board directors or senior staff are generously compensated /remunerated for their roles . So I suggest to give them only access to empty seats , stand by ...
The title is misleading.
Current non exec staff that are entitled to first class will be able to fly it on standby as usual.
Only board and exec are restricted from it, not all staff.
I think that's fair enough. It still prevents the moochers from booking free tickets.
If NO Staff Are Allowed In It/them
Who Going To Be Doing The Cleaning, tidying & refreshing the trays, tv screens, & AND Linen ?
Seems Physically, literally impossible ! ! !
How long do you think that Prime Directive will last ?? One month TOPS
Investors expect returns on their investment. Execs get paid enough already to afford to fly comfortably.
Very sensible ! I think the Executives get a good enough wage to be able to pay for 1st class. Now they can experience what it’s like travelling with less comfort! Bring it on!