A couple of nights ago, I had a hilarious travel related conversation with our three-year-old son while putting him to bed, which made me realize something. Let me first share what happened, and then some background to prove that I’m not an out-of-touch monster (or at least don’t intend to be)…
Continue reading: Oh No: My 3-Year-Old Says He Wants To Eat In The Lounge, Not On The Plane
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Ben - great post and great to see you and Ford being both very observant and deliberate. Our kids are grown now, but this is definitely a good age to start, and mixing up the travel experiences in various cabins is HIGHLY recommended. As we saw with Brendan's email to you, often times our past experiences shape expectations for future ones. You've done a great job being 'in-touch' with reality while providing reviews (with some bias here and there, but that's not the point).
We tried our best to do the same, but when ours reached their late teens, they were feeling somewhat reluctant to tell their friends about flying in first class to far away places, mostly because their friends could not or did not have the same experiences. This, despite many economy flights mixed in between long hauls.
Point is: if yours and Ford's desire is to have Miles become a well-rounded person who is both in-touch with reality and can fully/deeply appreciate a premium experience from time to time, then continue to balance out the experiences - a Southwest or (gulp) Frontier flight here and there will insure their genuine appreciation for whether eating in the lounge or on the plane or simply in the airport before the flight is a good thing or not.
Then watch and observe how they process it all.
Why not let Miles take the window seat now. I think that is how my love of planes started around age 3/4. I loved looking out the window at the wing and just being able to fly
I guess if you can't read a menu at 3 years old, being able to see the food before making a choice is perfect. Smart lad there, Ben 🙂
Love this post - very relatable! We enjoy travel and, for long-haul, are typically fortunate to travel in Business. When our youngest was 3 we flew Emirates from London to Bangkok (both legs A380) and all enjoyed the on-board lounge / bar. On the return from Phuket (B777) we were a couple of hours into the flight and our 3 year old asked if we could get a juice from the bar. I told her that this plane didn’t have a bar, to which she very loudly replied “WHAAAT?!” and in that moment I knew we needed to be more balanced with our travel plans….!
That’s a hilarious convo. Been scared to take our toddler to Europe but maybe it’s time now. My wife refuses to consider business for him even though we both fly it together.
My four year old nephew asked my why I was flying on Ethiopian Airlines even though I was going to India. That led to an age-appropriate explanation of the hub-and-spoke system complete with maps, etc.. Now he wonders why I don't fly to everywhere via Ethiopia since they have so many spokes. 🙂
Ben, as Miles will be learning to ski, this would be a good opportunity to learn it along with him. It will be more fun together! I learned skiing while I was an adult too and am glad I did.
I will be looking forward to your economy and premium economy reviews. BA PE is much better than LH PE, the differences can be significant.
Miles comment about to see the lounge food first is quite relatable. Probably he already noticed the differences between the Admirals Club and the Flagship lounge.
This reminds me of a funny conversation with our daughter when she was about 2 1/2 years old. We were flying intra-europe business class, which was essentially an economy seat with the blocked middle. When I showed her to her seat, she said, "This isn't my seat. It's too small!"
When I insisted it was her seat, she looked up at me, puzzled, and said, "Where's the bed?" - because we had recently flown first class on the old Lufthansa 747s with the separate bed
Don't sweat it. You're asking yourself the right questions and you'll impart the right values. And it often is better to eat in the lounge than on the plane! Your son is just speaking truth.
But this is why extra legroom economy is important. Extra legroom economy is amazing for families. AA is fumbling the ball with the new 787-P with only 18 MCE seats (they "downgraded" an upcoming flight from a 777 to the 787-P for me today and my 4 MCE seats turned into 3 with no notice, no apology, no nothing - I'll probably cancel and fly someone else). XLR is even worse with no MCE seats for families at all.
Delta and United are running in the opposite direction with their extra legroom offerings. Extra legroom economy encourages loyalty - it's often the best benefit of status, especially in an age where upgrades happen but are also often paid for.
I remember getting the question "Will this plane have beds" from my kids when they were small. I wondered if I had spoiled them forever.
I didn't need to worry. They're older now, and have flown super long-hauls like SEA-DXB-CPT in Y with no complaints. Although they're ecstatic when "someone" somehow procures a transatlantic J seat for them on occasion...
So we didn't start flying regularly with my son until he was about Miles' age, but yes, that's about the point where he truly became aware of what was going on. I will say, he commandeered the window seat pretty much from day one, so lucky for you he's content with the middle...
As far as coach vs. business, we do a mix of both, BUT we've had the conversation that we can't take the "beeeeed seats" as he calls them all the time. He does get excited when he gets to sit up front, but he's perfectly fine sitting in coach. Making sure he understands that we're fortunate to be able to splurge once in a while, but that there is a balance has been key to me.
We try and fly in the pointy end for our long haul flights. When we traveled to Jamaica a while back ago, which doesn't require sitting in the pointy end for only a couple hours flight. Our daughter was trying to take a nap on the airplane and she asked "where's the button for the bed?" :).
We go across the Atlantic once a year from the US. As a party of 3, going in J is not always doable but we've done it a few times with points. The bed helps with night flights but not always! On the way back we always sit in the back bc it's a day flight and it's hours and hours of TV anyway.
They learn early that eco plane food sucks. Get some at the airport.
We started flying with our first child when he was under a year old. This was when finding award space was easy so until they were in middle school it was a charmed life of two trips a year, mostly in First. I was worried they'd come to expect this but they are ages 24 and 25 now, have jobs, their own apartments and fly economy except when they're able snag a seat in business using the miles they've earned.
We as parents always think that we know best. Nowadays, apparently new parents gain their life experience from TikTok. However, my grandfather instilled into the children of my generation, “Do not try to reinvent the wheel”, if it is not broken then do not try to fix it!
My parents and I took grandfather at his word on many counts and practiced much of what he preached. ‘Ankle biters’, at mealtimes, are more controllable in a restaurant environment than in the confines of an aircraft cabin. As children, our meals were take before boarding. Appropriate finger food was available during the flight. We repeated this practice with our ‘monsters’. When grown up they too repeated the practice with their own issue. Now my grandchildren are carrying on the motion with my great grandchildren.
Ben, if you read this you might just take note too.
Oh man, I'd be interested to hear about how your early conversations go trying to explain points to Miles. That ought to be fun 🙂
Not an aviation experience but train travel in the UK.
For long distance we used to travel mainly first class but one day we traveled standard class and my eldest asked 'Dad why are there so many seats in here?' I had to laugh! He wasn't too happy there was no lounge access either but a Starbucks chocolate coins solved that!
Now 15+ years later he still travels first when he can - I blame his dad!!!
This is true. Extra legroom economy when you can take the whole row and put the armrests up is best bang for the buck for a family with a small kid.
Also good bang for the buck with a three year old - hitting the dollar store, buying a bag full of random toys they have never seen before, and then handing them out (in container, let the kid figure out how to open) every half hour or so while flying over the ocean. Good insurance policy when the iPad gets boring.
When our boys were very young they shared watching videos together on one portable DVD player. Since their screen time was fairly restricted at home this was a great treat so flying was a privilege they understood required their best behavior.
Once they could read they'd bring a backpack full of books and keep themselves happily occupied even on extremely long 14+ hour flights.
@Sean M. - I grew up flying EK to Pakistan, which was where all of my international flights were too (aside from Canada) until I was about 15 or so. I always wanted to travel the world, but I dreaded the thought of flying long-haul economy on any airline other than Emirates. I ultimately had to get over my fear lol.
But as a kid, I would think about how I would rather fly to Europe via DXB from the US on EK rather than a US airline. I guess this is why I found OMAAT lol
Exactly my experience. My daughter (recently out of college) grew up flying all over the world in first and business class - all award tickets. I was also worried that we'd spoiled her. But she did also fly in economy, especially for shorter trips, and while she definitely appreciates the front cabin, she's fine with economy. In fact she loves airplanes and airports, to the point where she'll arrive hours early at the airport just so she can plane spot (even if she doesn't have lounge access, which, when she's on her own, she rarely does).
If your kid is self-contained and can entertain him/herself for long periods (e.g., with an ipad or whatever), then business class is really much nicer for traveling with kids because you have so much more room. But if the kid is squirmy and/or needs constant attention to keep them calm and occupied, then economy is better because the seats are close enough to each other that you can interact with the kid whenever you need to. In J, if the kid needs something and you can't get up to tend to it due to turbulence or landing or whatever, it can be a big problem.
We travelled with our kid in F and J since she was about 2 years old. We always made sure she had enough "distractions", as we called them, to keep her occupied - videos, books, video games, and other toys, always carefully selected and age appropriate. And when she was old enough, she'd get to choose what to bring.
I had those conversations as a natural extension of one about money which is part of the big picture of how people obtain things. "Mommy and daddy do things for people and people do things for us. To keep track of who's helping whom we have these little pieces of paper that we give each other."
Next thing you know they want to pay for stuff themselves when you go shopping and pretty soon they realize its not just a piece of paper that gets stuff but the amount of paper and they starting asking "how much" about everything.
That leads to a conversation about value which leads to one about sales and discounts so its not a leap to talking about miles since those are just a kind of money and how they let you buy a big seat instead of a little one.
Not caught off guard... but mine used to talk constantly about the plane and their fascination with it, how something so big was able to fly, with clouds and how we could fly through them, why clouds were different shapes/sizes and so on, from a similar age.
Quite Steve, as a nine year old I once spent six hours entertaining the Captain and cockpit crew on a flight deck coming back from SIN. The Captain remarked to my parents that I might make a good pilot one day. My father replied that I was already a very good student and would be capable of solo flight soon …. I had to wait until I was 14 to be legal.
2 and a half for us. And be careful with the skiing trip, because that was the turn for our friends' kid having a preference for much more luxury vacations.
Kids are very adept at understanding what is expected of them, especially when they want something. Once they are old enough to process that disruptive behavior is going to have the opposite effect ("if you bother other people we aren't going to be able to go on airplanes anymore") so long as they have something that interests them unless they are sick or become exhausted they'll almost always do well.
Glad you were able to make it go both ways...with both you and the captain finding a way to relieve the boredom of a long flight.
What about loading the kids into a (rented) minivan and doing a 2-day drive somewhere? Packing sandwiches in a cooler and sitting down in a rest area picnic table to eat? Spending the night at a road-side motel?
I'm only half-joking, by the way. This was my experience growing up. And as a kid, it was exciting and I loved every minute of it.
As much as we tried to keep the boys on an eating schedule at home by avoiding unscheduled snacks, which were really just meals for when they were too young to make it between it between regular adult means, that was more difficult the days we were flying, particularly when it was intercontinental with a substantial change of time zones. Most flights eastward from the west coast leave at night so for anyone, but especially kids, the best thing is to eat at the normal time, which is often before boarding, then read or watch some videos just enough that you're ready to sleep.
It's great that Miles is beginning to express agency. Everything is easier once a child begins the process of making their own decisions. One of the best pieces of advice we got regarding that was to start with A/B decisions making such as "would you like to wear this shirt today or this one" which can be built upon to where you are making "would you like to eat in the lounge or on the airplane."
Good decision making is essential to a fulfilling life but decision making requires skill that comes from practice. The Montessori school our kids attended focused on this and I'd say its not only one of the most important things they learned but something that can start at a very young age.
Be considerate, leave the child home. Most travelers don't want to fly business or be in a lounge with someone else's child.
Regardless of where you’re sitting in the plane, it feels good to see your grade school age kid say hi to the flight attendant when boarding, locate their seat, stow their personal item and confidently settle in for a long flight. I think getting there means starting them early and suffering through some less than awesome flights when they’re Miles’ age. Worth it though.
You are not entitled to a child free space just because you don't like children. If it bothers you so much fly private.
Firstly, more of this please, it's wonderful!!
Our son just turned five and though he hasn't made a flight related statement that has truly surprised us, my husband jokes that I brainwashed him because I would frequently drive out to the Udvar-Hazy center and wander around with him (we live in DC). I guess it "worked" as my kid loves airplanes!
I don't want to be in a lounge or on a plane near an unruly child. I imagine that Miles rarely, if ever, fits that description. And, he seems to have parents that care about making the experience good for all.
I don’t have kids and I never will (cancer) but this post made me smile from ear to ear. Kids notice so much more than we give them credit for.
When my son was 10ish, we were in one of the Cathay lounges in Hong Kong. He said, "my phone automatically connected to the Wi-Fi, is that bad?". Yes
Same thing happened in London. Bad. Ha
Baby boomer parent here (Lifetime Marriott Titanium) with millennial children:
We were at the Rolex 24 at the Daytona International Speedway a few years ago and had to stay at a Comfort Inn for 1 night.
I told my millennial son, who is used to Concierge(Executive) Lounges, that this is how the other 50 percent stays overnight.
He looked at me and said, "No Dad, this is how the other 99 percent stays overnight"...
A number of years ago my oldest decided that he wanted to come home from college for thanksgiving at the last minute. First class was only slightly more expensive. So I bought him first class. He arrived home and announced that he was unimpressed with the F experience. Needless to say, I never bought him another first class ticket. While his younger brother (they're six years apart) was still traveling with me and was always appreciative when we were able to upgrade. I will still occasionally buy him a trip in first.
Speak for yourself @Steve Jacoby. I loved traveling with my kids and look forward to traveling with my grandkids. They deserve to see the world too and most are well behaved - often better behaved than adults.
When my son was three years old, we checked in to the Mandarin Orient hotel in Singapore. While we are unpacking, he picked up the telephone next to the bed. I asked him what he was doing, and he confidently said, "I'm calling for room service." I'll never forget that and yes, kids are more observant than you think at that age!
When I was 10 years old and traveling with my family in coach on a Northwest Orient Boeing 727-100, I "self upgraded" to First and the only pax sitting there. The F/A was delighted to have me and I have been hooked on Row 2 lo these decades later. I think Miles will be as well.
Happy New Year !
Definitely looking forward to the Lucky take on non-first/biz seats on international flights! I think such reviews will be especially pertinent to those readers with kids, or those who for whatever reason are unable to sit in first/biz on those flights.
puchski1, this is not a personal put down so please do not take offence. Locally there is a saying ….
“From the street one might look up to the Mandarin, but from Raffles one looks down on it”
Just some local banter added for interest, as it is applied to most high rise buildings in Singapore. One hopes that your son enjoyed his stay in Singapore.