Hello from the United States, as I just wrapped up my review trip to Bangkok! For the final international segment of my trip, I flew SWISS’ Airbus A350-900 business class on the 7hr55min flight from Zurich (ZRH) to Boston (BOS).
Continue reading: New SWISS A350 Business Class: A Huge Improvement, But How Good Is It?
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
On Swiss' website they mention business class dining is an 'Experience each course just like in a restaurant while we pamper you with culinary delights over a period of two to three hours.'
Personally I think that is nuts between USA and Europe as it is not far enough to get sleep. Glad the new seats were nice!
https://www.swiss.com/in/en/fly/on-board/food-and-beverage/swiss-business#2
Matthew Klint's buddy was not a fan... what did you think of their review?
https://liveandletsfly.com/new-swiss-a350-900-business-class-review/
@ MaxPower -- I don't think this he's far off. It seems seat firmness is a major complaint, though I'm curious if he tried to adjust the seat firmness, as there's a button for doing that? Regarding privacy, personally I don't think lack of privacy for the "true" window seats is much of an issue, and many OMAAT readers accuse me of being overly concerned about airplane seat privacy, so make of that what you will. 😉
But yeah, I think the conclusion is mostly right. I don't think this product is materially better than a standard reverse herringbone seat (Austrian's 787 business class seat, which he references), on balance. That's a shame, when you consider the amount of effort that has gone into making this product a reality (especially at Lufthansa).
Ben, there's actually only two seats that are like the one you sat in. I think they're the best value seats in the house. By my count, there are an incredible twelve distinct seat types across the businses cabin. Crazy flexibility but incredible inefficiency. Das ist klassiche deutsche ingenieurskunst!
@ BenjaminKohl -- Ah, you're right, the rear business class cabin doesn't have these seats... fixed! Crazy flexibility, unless you want to sit next to someone, in which case you better be ready to spend $500+ for the suites!
How does the seat cooling work? In my last three cars, the cooling is done by perforations in the leather, with fans that pull air in, and it's a lifesaver in summer, but I'm curious as to how this works on SWISS's A350.
Ben, do you like the tablet controllers? I found on my Alegris flights that they 1) give off a lot of heat, 2) frequently turned on after I had turned it off, and 3) are very heavy and clunky to hold and use as a controller for a while, but at the same time awkwardly placed to use while they're still in the holder. I know they look good and it is nice having multiple screens and controllers, but I am not a fan of the tablets.
@ pstm91 -- I think they're kind of pointless, especially since you can actually control the same seat functions via the main screen. I think it's one of those over engineered features that we could've done without. It just seems like another thing that can cause problems and break.
@ TravelinWilly -- I can't tell you how exactly the technology works, but the intent is that it's similar to a car, though don't expect the heating or cooling to be nearly as strong. Quite honestly, I've found it to be marginally useful, at best, and you might barely feel the difference.
Let's say you were a family of 4 with some elementary/middle school aged kids - what 4 seats would you select? Genuinely baffling to me.
@ Steven -- Correct! Maybe the toothbrush already has toothpaste on it, but I don't think that's the case, and if so, there was no indication of that.
@ Peter -- Yeah, it's the biggest downside to these seats, and clearly something Lufthansa Group didn't think about. The only seats where you can sit next to someone are the business class suites in the bulkhead rows, which you have to pay extra for.
My family of 4 with girls aged 9 and 10 is booked on the 350 in March, and the interesting thing is that not all seats are available for kids. Specifically, they can only select window seats, the seat pairs in the middle or the throne seats...not the aisle seats on each side of the plane. Seems like an odd choice. You can put your kid in a throne seat but not an aisle window seat..
Also, the cabin looks WAY better than LH, in pictures anyway.
So, Emirates and Qatar offer more items in their amenity kits to passengers in Economy Class than Swiss does in Business Class...
Ben, any news on LH/Swiss enabling redeeming miles for First on Allegris/Senses? There was some chatter on it in other sites and I was waiting for your confirmation...
@Cedric - That is fascinating. I figured something like row 4 would make the most sense, sort of replicating a 1-2-1 with two aisle windows and two middle seats, but you're telling me they can't select the aisle seats? I wonder if that's a seat certification issue...
The other thought I had was just doing window/aisle/window/aisle on one of the sides of the plane, which I guess you could do (windows for the kids, aisles for the parents?).
Can't argue with maroon - sophisticated color.
@Ben - yeah, hard to justify the expense of the business class suites for 4 passengers.
Swiss's A330s are certainly far from cutting edge business class seat design, but they sure are pretty great when flying as a family.
Just feels like there's a reason the standard reverse herringbone 1-2-1 seats caught on with everyone, and this just feels like LH outsmarted themselves.
Even Korean Air had a better amenity kit in economy when I've flown on them last summer from ICN to LHR.
I think after paying for business class it is not right to be charged an additional $200 to $600 or so each way for a seat per person
Ben, one of the advantages of reading all of your airline reviews, is that one is able to assess those airlines which one would not seek out to spend money with. This was such an airline product and I thank you for the insight.
I read that review yesterday I think and was wondering what YOUR take on it was
Did the heating/cooling stay on the entire time until you changed it again, or did it turn off by itself? When I flew Allegris a year ago, I changed it then went to sleep and it was off when I woke up so I wasn't sure if it was meant to do that or mine was just faulty
@Jessica - deciding the place to be based on age, how is that any better than judging people based on the way they were born?
Ben in one of the other reviews it looked like there are air vents in the seat walls - are there or is this just a light fixture?
Well, what to make of this?
(1) Good riddens to the old seats - they are/were just too lumpy and uncomfortable. Can't wait to see them go (the old First Class seat however was excellent, and even if the new first seats are nice too, the reduction to three seats total is just sad)
(2) While these new seats certainly seem more comfortable than the current ones, it's annoying to either have to gamble on what seat you end up getting or be nickel and dimed for a seat you actually want. What a pain!
(3) It's almost like LH Group didn't want to realize its sunk cost with these seats a few years in and just had to see them through. Sometimes you just have to eat the cost and go with a more standard seat (that might actually be better). I have a feeling this will not age well.
At the end of the day, the seats may not matter all that much. LH and LX fly many routes that don't have a ton of other good options and even now people fly those ancient LH J seats, despite zero privacy and no direct aisle access. These seats bring LH and LX up to par with many other current seats even if they won't do much more. And they certainly won't stop people from flying LX or LX. This may, however, be a missed opportunity to create something better that people actually aspire to.
Agree with everything you wrote — flew Swiss in business to Boston two weeks ago, and they already had this menu. The Tibetan momos from Tenz Restaurant in Zürich with the spicy chili sauce were a highlight. They ran out of beef by the time they got to my row, #4. Really? The chicken dish I very politely sent back as the flavors were really unfortunate. To me it tasted dreadful. The fish was exactly as you said, totally boring but edible. The amenity kit was even cheesier than the one you got: they still had the cheap-looking Victorinox pouches containing the same stuff you got. The Champagne and the wines were neither memorable nor special. The Swiss stewardesses were great, but my primary stewardess was a German one who was young and a bit out of her league. She just wasn't up to the job as her colleagues were. Oh well, looking forward to trying the A350 next time.
Don’t quite understand how is Swiss premium as an airline, it is lackluster to put it politely and definitely a league below Austrian in the Lufthansa family. A hard pass for me.
"What's with this inuit chap, constantly pedant-trolling?"
"OH, THEM! LoL - they're harmless, just been eating too much yellow snow again"
Good writeup, sounds like a solid business class product. Flying the A350 is also my current favorite of all active airframes.
I wish they would stop saying the selection is about “choice”. By the time we get to book a flight, at minimum usually over half of a business cabin is already booked. So with this Lufthansa concept on Swiss, you get to choose what’s left, which may not to be to your liking. At least with reverse herringbone, all seats are the same…easy.
One thing Swiss gets right for me is possibly the best vegetarian meal on any airline, designed by Hiltl which is a high quality, long time vegetarian restaurant in Zürich. Their food is really good. The problem is, if you pre-order a vegetarian meal on Swiss it is NOT the Hiltl meal. In my experience it’s usually some generic rubbish. So then I would not pre-order a vege meal and hope that there might be a Hitll meal left on the onboard menu. Swiss take meal orders by status and not by row order - they flap all around the cabin like demented seagulls - so there is a very good chance no Hitll vege meal is left by the time they get to me. it’s happened. Clearly they haven’t thought this aspect through.
No problem for us because we have now decamped to Qatar. We abandoned Swiss mainly because their pre-Senses business seats are like rocks and super narrow. The air pump thing never once worked on any seat I ever sat in, and was so hard to sleep on. They are fixated with this air mattress thing - but it seems they just don’t function to any comfort. Nothing beats a decent bit of seat padding, so sad to hear the Senses seat is also hard.
Oh, and the slow service is not new. It was ever so in Swiss business. I don’t miss those late night departures from SIN to ZRH where they would faff about for nearly three hours getting a simple supper out. A function of the mean staffing levels.
@Ben and @Willy, I read an article about this a while back either from or about the manufacturer of the system (Caynova). The cooling is accomplished via a small fan that blows air under the top layer of “breathable” fabric. It is intended to remove heat and humidity, thus providing a cooling effect via convection. In other words, it is not using any type of mechanical refrigeration - merely taking advantage of basic physics, so the overall effect will be limited by the ambient conditions in the cabin.
The heating is the same as a car seat or electric blanket, merely a resistance coil that warms the seat cushion. I was surprised when reading they were able to get it certified for aircraft (possibly part of the delays with the seats!?). Resistive heating is perfectly effective for that application, but can be a substantial electrical demand, so instead of running relatively small gauge wires for the IFE and other in-seat electronics they probably had to run larger wiring throughout business class.
As a vaguely related data point, modern trains are usually heated by a combination of resistive floorboard heat and additional resistive heat coils in the forced-air HVAC system. Somewhat counterintuitively, on a cold day of say 5C, the electrical demand for heat easily outstrips the demand the air conditioning requires on a hot day, and can run as high as 50-60amps per rail car. The forced air heating and cooling systems on aircraft are completely different - just giving an example of how energy-intensive resistive heat is.
Let me see if I can find that article, I’ll post a link if I can.
Sorry - this was intended to be a reply to @Travelinwilly and @Ben, but the website glitched several times while I was commenting and ended up in the main thread.
Here is the article I mentioned, it’s from 2023 so I don’t know if that’s what ended up on the finished product:
https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-caynova-individual-seat-cooling-heating-technology-development/
Would be great, if Airlines stop this amenity kit thing. Nobody who flys a lot needs them really..
Swiss is a profit machine leveraging high business demand from Zurich to global business centers while transporting lucrative cargo (watches gold and pharma products).
The company relies mostly on OD traffic to ensure its yields and so has become a champion in optimizing just how bad the product value before business travellers switch to AF or BA.
Considering the gruesome perspective of connecting in LHR or CDG they can milk quite aggressively.
And can afford to transport 1.5 t of lead in the back for the A330 to be able to fit Allegris F... Funny, Allegris is autocorrected Allergies 🙂
And as they love to nickel and dime everything those 12 different seats are a good opportunity though I doubt they'll monetize it as much as they wanted.
Those 12 seats for Ben I also understand it's a proper nightmare: how many times should he review the product to cover the span of possible experiences ?
Maybe that's the ulterior motive : make comparisons difficult to create a clout on the pricing strategy ?
Wait a second Ben. I had to re-read the part about the amenity kits. Are you saying they don’t provide eye masks?!?!?!
If that’s true, this is a huge fail
So, they got new seats on one (!) plane in order to catch up with most of the other airlines. Otherwise, nothing new.
The media promotion they have made here in Switzerland about this "novelty" is absolutely stunning. In the summer I was invited to book pre-Boston test flights of this A350 within Europe and almost did it, until my wife, watching the pictures of the business cabin, said "but there's nothing really special about it, is it?".
@TimUK - that’s fine for now when the window seats are not subject to an up charge. But once they are? And if you strangely can’t book aisle seats of all things? And if you are not the first to book to get the seating available to families?
It’s not the end of the world. Just a lot harder of a LOPA for families than your standard 1-2-1 format.
This is all a huge step up from LX's existing products, which, particularly on the A330-300 are terrible, in all but First Class, with bad seats, no Premium Economy, dated AVOD and bad food. But don't get too excited. LX is only getting 2 359's per year for the next two or three years. This plane largely replaces the A340-300, which first flew with LX in late 2003. The A330 mods can't come soon enough. The 77W is a much better experience, but it is aging too.
Ben, your opinion of cheese seems terrible!!!!!!!, with all due respect
I love your trip reports, and value your judgements...
BUT....
(I know I'm picking on something quite minor, though...)
When you write that the cheese was "a pretty nice cheese plate" you don't seem to know how wrong you are. The cheese plate of Swiss is TERRIBLE. It's horrible. Nasty. It's factory-supermarket cheese of the cheapest kind. It's like saying a 9 USD champagne is "pretty nice".
This cheese is not what Swiss cheese culture represents, and its an embarrassment for Swiss to offer this. I think I can say of myself that I value and know cheese quite well (and I live in Switzerland). This cheese is the lowest grade you can get. (and some of it is not Swiss, not that this matters so much.)
Anyway, sorry for my rant, but this blog is about sophisticated taste, and I would love to introduce you to the best quality that my country can offer, and its definitely not available on this flight.
I actually thought that my kit hadn’t been properly assembled because of so many things not being in it. On the flight home, my kit was still substandard, but it did have the toothpaste. The kit on my flight home was basically a down jacket for my glasses, which made zero sense. I liked the old Victorinix tins with the more substantial goodies.
Loved the cooling seats.