Several weeks ago, I covered a bizarre incident at Frankfurt Airport (FRA), where a Lufthansa Dreamliner had a gear collapse at its gate, causing some injuries. Suffice it to say, seeing a plane’s gear collapse at a gate is mighty unusual, and shouldn’t happen. A report has now revealed what happened… it’s exactly what I…
Continue reading: Oy: Lufthansa Boeing 787 Gear Collapse In Frankfurt Was Due To Simple Error
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Maybe it's due to the the McDonnell Douglas quality that Boeing builds into each of its new planes.
Allegris interior too heavy? Maybe they needed a counterweight, like the SWISS A330s.
I’m afraid that this is not a good look ORD, are you sure that you are still in denial about the Airbus products?
"New" plane implies it's new from the factory. Flying for almost four months reduces (but doesn't eliminate) the possibility of a production flaw.
My initial response was, "Did someone in the flight deck push the gear override and raise it?" But the mains do not appear to have started to tuck in at all. My money is on a maintenance procedure not being correctly followed.
Hope we get to hear the answer.
Looks like Homer is getting another free trip anywhere in the USA (except Alaska and Hawaii).
Gaaat daaayum… that’s bad. Hope everyone is alright. (Looks like maximum EU261 compensation, and rebooking or refunds, unless they claim ‘extraordinary circumstances,’ but it sure seems like failure by the airline to properly maintain their aircraft… not ‘the weather’ or whatever excuse.)
Disagree ... The airline didn't force the manufacturers' engineering . The pax assume the risk of a delayed flight because of these extraordinary circumstances of the plane's collapse . Likely similar outcome if an FA collapsed due to unrequited romanticism .
This is s reason we do not walk under airplanes, rare as it is. Glad I am not hearing injuries or deaths.
…. It definitely misbehaved Albert.
No doubt that when Walter Mitty Dunn has slept off his hangover, he will tell us all that it could never happen to Delta.
On a serious note, the ground staff was so lucky. I'm happy to see that, based on the footage, nobody was injured. (And the 787 doesn't have an F cabin)
First, good to see that the guy standing right next to it didn't get injured.
Second, why the hell put several holes where the same pin apparently fits right next to one that is so critical? Sounds like poor design to me. Just make that pin a different shape and colour and make the hole match. Most people already learn in kindergarten how to do that, but apparently it's rocket science for Boeing engineers. We don't know if it's the cause here, yet, but if it happened, then it's really telling that it already happened twice. Anyway, we'll see this bird again in half a year or so. 🙂
Boeing Models 787, 733-M remain poor us-building quality.
the new 777 I will never ever sit in early....
Boeing Models 787, 737-M remain poor us-building quality.
the new 777 I will never ever sit in early....
I'm sick of these hit pieces about Boeing and the planes having problems while no one talks about Airbus and their shoddy quality.
This comment section just shows the best many of you know about aviation is how to get on a plane and not much else.
The only way a Dreamliner can do this is if it’s undergoing landing gear maintenance and the pin that locks the gears from collapsing has not been put in the correct hole and if it’s not when raising the landing gear during said test. It will actually go up because the ground measure that prevents landing gears from responding on the ground has been overridden in order to test the fix.
It’s happened before on Dreamliners. Last was in 2021 on a BA Boeing 787-8. You can tell that the gear is undergoing maintenance seeing as the landing gear doors are open.
You can just say you don’t know what happened instead of blaming Boeing for what isn’t their fault. The lock pin used for landing gear maintenance was not used. The plane collapsed because the landing gear toggle was triggered to test a fix.
To state in your article „Make sure you claim your compensation“ before you even write and think about possible injuries, that’s a new low Ben !!!
What is wrong with you people these days? All about ME ME ME all the time !!!!! No wonder the world has come to what it is ! Sad. I would have expected different from you !
There are 1100 787s in service. This has happened 5 times. How about you focus on your job. The holes are clearly labelled and Boeing has made it clear several times.
Why won’t you pay attention to what you’re doing? If you can’t why work in such a critical industry that needs full attention.
By the stats most people do but then we have to blame Boeing because somebody did not pay attention in class. A joke
@ Norddeutscher -- I mentioned both points, though? The two aren't mutually exclusive. I simply mentioned the compensation point first because it was in the context of the flight to LAX being canceled.
Aren't landing gear doors open at all times when the landing gear is deployed???
Actually no. With the landing gear selected down, the doors open,
gear extends & then doors close behind it.
For ground maintenance, a relief valve or switch can open the doors for access.
Point being? This story should not be covered? Should only be covered while telling an Airbus f/u at the same time?
The internet is like a sword fight, you need to think first, before you move.
Your comment is a very good example of the Dunning-Krugger curve 🙂
"It illustrates that people with minimal knowledge often possess exaggerated confidence..."
"At that time, Boeing had already issued a warning regarding its own design and recommended sealing the incorrect hole with a plug to prevent confusion."
that is back to 2021...come on boeing with this poor reputation in recent years..."design mistake"...they cant even draw!
While not knowing the cause, I think this plane has a carbon composite fuselage and is subject to extensive repairs from hard landings. Not sure if a gear collapse belly flop on the apron counts, but could be really expensive.
@Opus - Please take your holier than thou attitude somewhere else. This is a miles&points blog, not a mechanical engineering forum.
'What do I make of it?' Likely the same as everyone else. There was a component failure and an investigation will be published with the cause and any contributing factors. Fairly straight forward, don't you think?
How is it a "hit piece"? It's a Boeing aircraft, and the company is going to be mentioned in news reports about this accident, even if it wasn't a Boeing employee or manufacturing defect that caused it.
Given LH's track record on seat manufacturing, I am laying this at their feet and not Boeing's.
I don't do denial about Airpus products. They suck. The only reason they exist is that the EC put up money and Douglas was bought by McDonnell.
What I find quite interesting. FRA-LAX is a massive route for LH, which use to fly double daily 744s, A340s, a mix of 380s and 748s. I know the A380 is now via MUC, but it has rosted on FRA-LAX recently.
Now a 787 is what is scheduled for LH450? - plus a week before the World Cup kicks off in LA? - I know its a better seat in J, but WOW.
Germans and the World Cup!?.
Not just LA
FRA - JFK and EWR was 4x daily total, now down one daily flight to JFK. 2x JFK nd 1x EWR - and the world cup also plays in the NYC area.
I think this is worthy of a post, the schedule pull-down of LH by flights and aircraft equipment to the USA. I wonder if there is a similar pattern at BA, AF, KL and others?
He’s just trying to help his readers. We all appreciate his assistance, expertise and thoughtfulness.
But for you? Geh weg!
Then miles&points boys should stick to talking about that and not saying rubbish about stuff they don’t know about.
There’s nothing “holier than thou” about my message. It’s very basic, if one doesn’t know then say you don’t know , Don’t say rubbish so confidently which is a lot of what is going on in this comment section
What a stupid statement from Walter Mitty Dunn.
Neither LH, nor any other carrier that I know of, have a “Track record on seat MANUFACTURING”.
If Walter Mitty Dunn thinks that LH manufacturers “Seats”, then he deserves the daily bumbo prize. What a numpty Walter!
By your reasoning Jake, all of you “Miles & points blog” readers ought to stop commenting upon any other topic, yes?
If you personally do not know the difference between a screw and a driver, then perhaps you need to pin back your ears so that you might learn something useful, yes?
Every day is a school day for those willing to read, look and listen, don’t you know!
I was under the impression that this website was something to do with civil aviation and visited by ‘aviation geeks’, whatever they are? Yet nobody has twigged that the System Integrator and OEM for the landing gear was/is Safran Landing Systems, France.
The responsible for the design, development and manufacture of the landing gear was outsourced by Boeing to Safran. The gear comprises of components sourced from various countries; i.e. France, England, Canada, Mexico and China. Assembly is carried out in the U.S. and fitted to the airframe by Boeing.
For once Boeing can hardly be held accountable for this incident.
Ugh, that's painful to watch (video). I'd expect a fair amount of damage (plus needing to inspect and certify everything). Ugh.
Very interesting to see how much quality control work Boeing does. Since the two disasters i am still avoiding Boeing planes. If it's Boeing, I am not goin'...
can you show us the report that confirms that this was Boeing's error and not the operator (LH's)?
I hope you didn't break any bones jumping to your premature conclusions
Quoting Tim Dunn:
„Given [Boeings] track record on [aircraft] manufacturing, I am laying this at [Boeing‘s] feet […].“
Quoting Tim Dunn:
„I hope you didn't break any bones jumping to your premature conclusions“
„Given [Boeings] track record on [aircraft] manufacturing, I am laying this at [Boeing‘s] feet […].“
And who exactly gives the order to Safran? The order, that includes exactly how the landing gear has to be made?
So yeah, Boeing is responsible. And so is Safran.
Jorgje, before you blow off at me, please read my post again.
Ok! Now tell me what you do not understand about the words: “The responsibility for the design, development and manufacture of the landing gear was outsourced by Boeing to Safran”.
It is my understanding that Boeing had nothing to do with anything other than to place an order with Safran for X sets of landing gear. The completed wheel station sets are then to be fitted by Boeing.
Boeing do not tell every component manufacturer how to design and manufacture individual components. An aircraft is just like a car, a train or a boat, ‘bits of this and bits of that’ all cobbled together the make the finish article.
Your apology will be welcome, alternatively, if you can provide proof that Boeing instructed Safran: “Exactly how the landing gear has to be made”, then I will of course apologise to you, yes?
and yet evidence, as Ben laid out, is that this was not Boeing's problem but operator error
Will you retract your statement?
Ethiopian Airlines Dreamliner was the firstever victim followed by BA at LHR and this LH aircraft is the third.
Leelaratne .
I didn't post earlier .
As an aircraft manufacturer, you may outsource certain tasks, but you cannot outsource responsibility. The manufacturer will remain responsible for the quality and safety of their product.
It doesn’t have much to do with Germans and the World Cup. More with Americans and their current administration. Demand for travel to the US is down by roughly 30% in Germany and there is much less interest in the World Cup this time than usual, which may also be due to the fact that because of the time difference most people will not be able to watch the matches live which removes most of the fun.
Issuing a service bulletin won't prevent a dumb one from inserting into the wrong hole . (That's what she said.)
Walter, Wayne or whatever ….
One might be best advised to stick to shepherding your Campus flock, through the turbulence of the supernatural, rather than straying into an area of commercial aviation engineering which you quite obviously know nothing about …. Yes?
This wouldn’t be the first time someone inserted their pin into the wrong hole.
@Ben: "(if you were booked on the flight, don’t forget to claim EC261, if eligible!)"
Who would not be eligible?
Good heavens, is this ever a serious and sickening accident? I would expect the immediate resignation of the Board, Executive Team and senior maintenance leadership at Frankfurt! The safety culture is clearly non-existent! There is no room for such sloppiness in the aviation industry!
If only there were some simple mechanism to determine whether or not a pin had been inserted that could be checked by software when attempting to perform said tests...
This a design oversight, as relying on good intentions simply doesn't work.
The pins usually have a strap like pennant attached to each pin. It’s pretty easy to see when they are inserted in the gear.
Is there some aspect of the 787's design that makes it particularly prone to this? Or is it just a coincidence it has now happened twice on 787s?
So glad you attached this update with the previous comments, so we can more easily see who said what when the story first broke.
Among those was Tim Dunn. I've challenged Tim more than once on his assertions (and probably will again) but he was 100% right, early on, when this happened. He questioned others who were sure it was a "Boeing" thing, and kept an open mind that it could just as easily be something else, He said, quote: "can you show us the report that confirms that this was Boeing's error and not the operator (LH's)? I hope you didn't break any bones jumping to your premature conclusions." He also asked other commenters, who were sure this was a Boeing flaw, back in June, quote: "and yet evidence, as Ben laid out, is that this was not Boeing's problem but operator error, Will you retract your statement?"
Nicely done, Tim. You were absolutely right. Opus had it right back on June 4th, too (quote: "The plane collapsed because the landing gear toggle was triggered to test a fix.")
Good on both of them.
When the manufacturer has a process in place to install a bypass pin, which prevents the gear from retracting during maintenance procedures, and the mechanics leave the pin in the tool box instead and then pull the gear handle up... that's a maintenance mistake, not a manufacturer's one.
I'm not expecting anyone who immediately went with "Another Boeing engineering flaw!" to issue apologizes - but you know who you are.
This is not "design oversight" and NO maintenance procedures rely on "good intentions". They rely on competent maintenance personnel that actually do all of the prescribed tasks, carefully and in the order given, when completing the maintenance work. It's just like routine flights rely on competent pilots who follow all of the established procedures on a checklist.
Mechanics have specific tasks for maintenance requirements spelled out, step by step, so mistakes like this don't get made. And they use additional oversight procedures for critical processes so someone else verifies the first person did the procedure correctly. This maintenance crew simply didn't do what they were supposed to do, and skipped or missed a step (putting in the gear pins).
And you cannot have sensors on every single part, bolt, nut, wire, tube, pump, valve, or plug so the computer can tell you the maintenance step was done correctly. That's why there's specific steps to follow in the first place. At everywhere I've worked, maintenance personnel even did logbook entries for "Installed Gear Pins" and "Removed Gear Pins" when the maintenance procedures included those steps.
This is a simple maintenance error, and nothing was wrong with the plane. Now that we know what happened, the better question is "why?" as in, lack of training? Tired, overworked maintenance crew? Lack of oversight? Never did the procedure before? Miscommunication between maintenance crew? Answering that is how something like this is prevented in the future.
Let’s not downplay Boeing’s criminal negligence on the separate topic of the 737Max tragedies, but, sure, here, this one-off 787 LH fiasco seems like maintenance error, so, kudos to Tim Dunn, on a rare non-Delta comment, that was seemingly accurate.
Hey - just trying to be fair. It's not always wrong, just because Tim Dunn posted it.
Waste no energy with the woke mob. We know the level of thick skull they need just to be leftists in the first place.
Well, this was about poor performance of maintenance team at Frankfurt.. and inability to keep the most basic check-list
Why isn’t the pin on a string next to the hole instead of 25 feet away in a box?
They have to deal with a lot of newly imported workers who have limited English and critical thinking skills
Another attempt by our European enemies to mock the US, when will this insult end? We should ban all Boeing planes from being used by Europeans and let them rot with their ancient airbuses.
The latest news of the Iran planned assassination of Trump is clear that the only friend we have is Israel.
It's Delta related.
Tim always say how crappy 787 is inferior to A350-1000 GOAT.
He'll take every shot at Boeing and 787.
Even if he's 1 in 1 trillion correct. He's expected to be correct once.
He still fluff 999,999,999,999 times incorrectly.
you are truly one scared little boy trying desperately to salvage your own credibility.
I said multiple times in the comments below that there is no evidence this was Boeing's problem.
You are either hopelessly incapable of reading or so desperate to cover for your own repeated false statements about any number of issues that you resort to flat out lies.
The evidence below is quite clear that I DID NOT blame Boeing
sorry... I haven't had a cup of coffee yet.
"Nicely done, Tim. You were absolutely right."
I retract my comment.
No worries, Tim. We'll do battle over stats another day, but not today. I've had more than one post myself where I wish I could delete it, and rewrite - or at least edit it.
Again, well done on essentially saying to everyone, "Let's not rush to judgement, but this doesn't look like a Boeing mistake."
Enjoy your coffee.
There is a simple check. Their is a colored fabric hanging from it. Why do people insist on making things complex. One person turns on switch after the other person says the pin is inserted.
Boeing again, yes, not surprised. That new boss has to turn around a negative culture from the previous. Its not the people, its was the boss, who typically got lazy after getting huge bonus.
Certainly the new man has alot of work to do to turn Boeing back into a wonder company again.