Flying Lufthansa's A350 Allegris Business Class: Impressive, Mostly...

Any changes in the soft product?

And we waited seven years for this? I’m not really impressed. And I agree with you, the logistics and customer service aspects of this are going to be a nightmare. What happens if the seat you’ve chosen, and likely paid extra for, is inoperable for whatever reason?

Thanks! I agree with your choices. I’d go for the privacy seats

@ mkleiderman -- Yes, some of the minor refreshes that I outlined here were present on the flight:
https://onemileatatime.com/news/lufthansa-improving-business-class-catering/

However, that was the extent of it. We're talking very minor things, like nuts on the ground and an "amuse bouche" of hummus with veggies in a small ramekin. I do think Lufthansa should overhaul its soft product in a more significant way.

It doesnt appear LH is upcharging for the more premium first row seats. Their website only offers two fares: Biz Basic and Biz Flex - which both seem to allow one to select any avail Allegris seat.

Did you get a peek of the FC cabin (row 1)? It shows on aeroLOPA's website, but not on the LH.com website.

You know it will be confusing when as you stated even the crew were unsure as to which were the extra long seats.

@ GSNick -- These will all be seat assignment fees, and not separate fare classes, so that's why it doesn't show during the booking process. The first class cabin hasn't been installed yet, but should be installed later this year.

I think the biggest problem of the Allegris is that nowadays there are lot more leisure Businessclass flyers, even the CEO of Lufthansa said that, and except for the first row in the middle, you cant really sit next to your partner.

I book one of the last J awards for LH477 May 5, but cancelled this morning. If anyone wants to snag that last award.... /s

The more I read about Allegris, the more confused I was. So many options, but in the end, nothing truly innovative.

I decided to take a wait-and-see approach as they roll out more planes and routes. I can always grab another one in the future if I'm really keen to try it.

"While Lufthansa markets this variability as giving customers choice..."

-Ben Schlappig

"I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things!"

-Edina Monsoon, Absolutely Fabulous

I'm with Edina on this one.

Lucky - Do you have any thoughts on the seat finishes? Based on the photos i've seen, they look extraordinarily bland for a new state-of-the-art business class seat. That brown on the armrests paired with the blue seats kind of reminds me of the old old United 8-abreast coffin seats. Why were they so un-ambitious with that?

I wasn't expecting this trip happening so quickly!

Typical German way of making things more complicated than needed. I can't recall anyone flying J saying "what we really want as customers, is 5 different types of J hard product to make us want to fly this airline".

Look for consistent roll-out on all planes to be complete by the end of the decade.

Like you said, with all this "choice", there's almost no paired seats for couples or families? That's a big disappointment. One reason I like Polaris is that it has 25% honeymoon seats and 75% private seats.

What's the bed length on seats not marketed as "extra long"? I think many business class beds come in around, or a bit under, the 2m mark, so the extra 20cm will really only appeal to those who really are exceptionally tall. Personally, I'm 6'5", or roughly 1.95cm so going from ~2m to 2.2m wouldn't make much of a difference to me.

In particular, what's the bed length in those first row suites? Would be really interesting (though maybe not too surprising given everything else) if those beds are shorter than the "extra length" ones.

That is what worries you nowadays? Really? Can’t sleep because of that?

Too confusing. Think I will stick with Delta.

The extra-long seats are in the center section in the 2-seat rows, but on the side where the throne seat in the row in front is blocked off from the aisle (the thrones are only accessible from one side). This is possible because of the lack of the access corridor to the throne seat on that side, with a correspondingly longer desk for the throne seat that is used as the footwell for the extra-long seat in the row behind. This alternates between left and right as the access corridor for the "throne" seats alternate throughout the cabin.

So much variability leads to a poor customer experience. It's a bad product.
For a delay of this many years, Lufthansa should have done much better.

I suspect Lufthansa will only charge extra for the Up front seats and the throne seats. They will market the classic, privacy and long bed seats differently, but likely won't charge extra for those. Also, the rear seats of the cabin have extra table space as they are bassinet seats. Since you were curious, the extra long bed seats are the ones behind the throne seat on the side of the large throne table - that allows the footwell to extend farther and provide extra space. But the cabin layout is not as efficient as United for example because half the rows have one fewer seat and there is a lot of space wasted in the privacy seats. So LH ends up with only 38 seats in this config, down from 48 in their previous config. If they charge extra for the privacy seats I will choose not to fly with them because most important for me is a view out the window where I don't have to stretch across seat structures. The seats being robust build is good to note; it looked as much from the photos.

Seat allocation/reservation on Allegris is free till sometime in Fall when LH has more Allegris planes. Only the front row is reserved for LH Senators/HON Circle at time of booking.
Note that LH said that they'll release the final Allegris seatmap only 3wks prior to flights for the time being.

LH have said that the only 'free' seats will be the classic seats. The Privacy ones will cost extra. Facts.

What is the pricing like for each of the “enhanced” seating options? Totally get that some might not have been available because this was such a last minute trip.

There's too many problems with this. Rip them out and put in an updated reverse herringbone seat instead.

While on the other side of the world.
Another Boeing whistleblower died from some mysterious infections.

They probably spent too much money on this anyways. And they could just always remove the price differentiations if this is too hard.

The bigger seats in the front row look good but similar to old school products like air Kenya and air India with a big footwell. I’d prefer that to the cramped herringbone seats

Their soft product is where they need big changes

That's all going to look dated soon. Not really much of an upgrade, honestly. Much ado about nothing.

The Rosary worked.

Well, considering it took LH decades to come up with a new product, Alegris misses a bit the wow factor, some suite seats in front ok but why not all? Why this confusing setup. Not sure I want the disappointment of ending up on a smaller standard seat. And why creating all this competition within a class?
So one First is ready, LH can claim to have 6 if not 7 classes onboard ‍♂️

Oof. This is a great impetus for aeroLOPA to introduce a seat rating/preference capability like SeatGuru had.

Man, I was raised believing German administration and competence was on par with the Japanese. Complete opposite experience as an adult every time I've had to deal with anything there. Otherwise a wonderful country!

The seat heat/cooling is amazing!

The window seats right behind the suites look less spacious as you are essentially closely behind a large wall divider. The subsequent window seats do give a more airy impression. So there are even two classes of window seats.

Thanks for the review! I was wondering about how private the seats felt, considering how relatively short the seat walls seem from pictures of allegris? Were you able to see your seat neighbours too easily? Or was that not issue?

Pour one out for bloggers who can't make Allegris delay jokes any more.

Air Kenya? That's a regional airline that only flies Turbopops.

As a former LHG hub captive, I still find it very fascinating that there are people who a) voluntarily book an LH flight, b) get excited about it. Lufthansa absolutely hates their customers, and Allegris with its 10 options of how to treat business class pax the Ryanair way is a great example of it.

I mean, why?

There ARE individual air vents/gaspers built into the side wall....did you not see them ? Also I am not getting this blog in my email...what gives Lucky ?

Hi Lucky!

I also stopped receiving emails on Sunday - I have subscribed again (after 8 years of getting your blog), but still no email.

Any thoughts, please? Would be great to get them again!

thanks!

This looks like cabin design by committee so that's why they ended up with 5 different types of seats.

It's confusing. Imagine checking in for your LH flight at DEL or DEN - the outsourced ground staff will have no idea of all these differences, like when a customer requests a long legroom seat.

lol

I think I know which seats are the extra long bed seats.

When looking at the seat map, I noticed that the center single seats (or "throne seats") only have aisle access on one side. The other side has a table, which I assume is used for the extra long footwell for the seat behind it. Therefore, I think that the extra long bed seats are the aisle seats in the center behind the single seats, but only on the side opposite to where the single seat in front has its aisle access. On this A350 configuration, that would be seats 4G, 6D, 10G, and 12D.

Anyone who has flown the single center seats in this cabin, can you verify if the counter to the side of your seat (opposite to where you have aisle access), has any additional storage areas under the console? If not, that space underneath the console is likely used as the extra foot cubby space for the seat behind it.

Clearly Lufthansa executives do not read the HBR: https://hbr.org/2006/06/more-isnt-always-better

I didn't see a review summary at the beginning. Did I miss something?

They're said to be 2 meters minimum. But the classic seats feel very short, more like 1.90 due to very tight legroom. Couldn't sleep there comfortably with 1.98m myself

I can’t believe that they’ve gone with ”adjustable firmness” (air filled) seats. I’ve literally been on hundreds of flights where the seat has deflated completely (including on LH, SK, OS, LX, AC, and more), and I know that this is a very well-known problem for the airlines, including LH. All other airlines seem to move away from these unreliable disasters.

With all due respect, how is it that a random passenger on a mysteriously appearing award redemption has time to go around and take pictures of every single variation of the seats in the cabin without another single passenger having boarded yet?
It is all very fine that we get an early and detailed report on the seats, and I don't necessarily doubt the neutrality of the comments, but should we really keep pretending that there are no industry favours involved?
When I board for F and J, I struggle to get a picture of my seats undisturbed by other passengers, how do you get pictures of every single layout undisturbed as a regular passenger?

It strikes me that the plethora of seat types is partly related to the dimensions of the A350 cabin itself -- rather than fitting in an identical seat throughout the cabin, they tweaked each seat to optimize something???
I wonder how many variations of Allegris seating we will see on LH's other planes -- I can see even more confusion among passengers trying to remember where the primo seats are each of the models:-(

Do it on landing. All the monitors say “Goodbye”…

I don’t know about you but I’ve never seen a cabin look so clean and tidy after a flight! Jokes aside Ben has many times been able to get onto aircraft before other passengers and sometimes it’s just doesn’t work out.

It is exactly the same issue that LH siblings Swiss and Austrian have. Depending on your seat it can be GREAT or ABYSMAL.

For example, on Swiss/Austrian you can get lucky and nab one of the few ‘throne’ seats, you can get slightly unluckier and get one of the true window seats, further unluckier by getting one of the solo seats by the aisle or really unlucky and end up in one of the pairs with no direct aisle access for the window.

Whilst Allegris at least offers direct aisle access as a minimum I would much prefer a product where there is consistency in terms of seat such as BA Club Suites or Air France new biz.

They do, but all of the pillows are unused and the mattress pads are at the front row seats. Probably more likely to be before the cabin is fully ready, and the IFE is not reset yet.

It’s pretty obvious why LH chose to do 5 different seat options….so they can upcharge for all above their already ridiculous Business Class fares. On flights that don’t offer First, I expect the premier seats in BC to be significantly more expensive.

I think for Leisure travelers that are willing to pay a premium to have a better seat and more privacy with doors, it will be beneficial when Lufthansa starts charging for these seats.

As Lucky assumes - and I agree with that - most businesses travelers won’t be willing to or allowed to pay more for premium seat assignment. As a result I believe as long as seat assignments are free the suites are tough to snag, but as soon as they start charging, they are easier to book.

So I’m probably in the minority, wishing for Lufthansa to charge for them.

It’s not a review. It’s a sneak peek.

I fly with my wife and our 3 girls. I much prefer the old version 🙂 But for sure if you travel alone, ie for business, this new set-up looks fine.

He has written a post in the past on how he is first to line up to try to get to the cabin way before anyone else can.

It all just look so really ugly…. So much plastic just hurt my eyes… when i Think the beautiful and chic today’s SWISS cabin will look that tacky it bis just so disappinting

There's probably a way to joke fairly about this product...

"Lufthansa's Allegris seats have so much space – one square foot for every year the product was delayed"

As welcome this new change is for individual traveller, I am disappointed for options for couples. We always fly J long haul, we enjoy chatting and sharing experience, clinking wine glasses...
Not to mention families... when I fly Turkish Airlines, to my surprise half of Business class is usually filled with families, it is so convenient. Well, this may change soon as well.
All aside, cannot wait to test new Allegris, thanks for the first impressions. 🙂

It is apparently not air-filled..not sure what they do but the seat is very comfortable..just flew in 2K on LH495.
Like Ben said..this suite really is one to move in…but of course there is the variety of seats as Ben perfectly described.

Very ugly. Utterly nonsensical in terms of “choices.”

Business class seat looks boring and outdated for 2024 and the seat arrangement is overcomplicated. Why make the two seats close to each other just to leave a divider in the middle? They just had to look at the Qatar's double Qsuite which was years ahead of that time in design and elegancy.

I have been on the plane first and I did not make an effort. I have pictures of a completely empty business class section on the A350 (with the older seats of cause).

Agree with the other comments. Looks like standard seats. Just more complicated and different pricing. It’s really the same space but allocated differently.

Agree with the other comments. Just the same seats and same space allocated differently for a different price. I guess many people will get frustrated for a number of reasons and cause a complaint. As you said correctly people will leave with different experiences which can’t be good for the airline...

Wow your ads are getting obnoxious. The same ad even keep popping up repeatedly after closing it (and even as I’m typing this comment!).

Do you also have pictures 5-6 different seats all empty? Since Ben is not HON Circle or Senator, there would in all likelihood have been people with higher boarding priority.

It is fine that there is special access and support from the airlines to make early reviews possible and reasonably easy. I do trust Ben to make judgements based on experice, and not based on the favours of the airlines.

But just state it. There are too many things that always line up perfectly to accept that there are no airline interventions to make it happen.

In the marketing world, there is a known measurable phenomenon where when you give consumers too much choice they buy less and are less satisfied.

Our brains can only process so many choices before the combinations become overwhelming. I suspect LH is skirting dangerously close to this. Time will tell.

That competence (or lack thereof) shows in DBRail operations over the last few years. When we were there last summer *ever* *single* *segment* had issues up to and including random cancellations.

So in addition to all of these options, kn the 747 they will have the “old” biz class on the e upper deck as well…. Crazy.

What were the amenity kits like? How does this compare to United Polaris?

You touched on it slightly but how was the actual comfort of the seat, both sitting and as a bed? Does Lufthansa use a pad for sleeping on the seat or not?

I just flew From Munich to YYZ and had seat 6D inside aisle regular business class seat. Wow! What an improvement. Loved the spacious foot room. I actually slept.

5 (or 7) choices for J class is just too complicated. What happens if you book one choice and it becomes unavailable? Refund? Re-seat?
I've just had Lufthansa change my seats (paid for seat assignment) and not honor my request and not allow a refund.
Adding this complexity I think will make this far too complicated and it will become more annoying than pleasurable.
FYI, I am a million-mile flyer on several airlines.

They just sent me a message to say we'll have these news cabins for TYo - MUC in April... As we are a family of 5, I would say, this is not the best set-up... let's see.