Delta Air Lines has been investing a lot in its lounge network lately, including expanding the network of Delta Sky Club locations, plus opening Delta One Lounges. The airline has just opened its latest Sky Club, and it’s at one of American’s fortress hubs.
Continue reading: Delta Sky Club Charlotte Opens: American Flyers Will Be Jealous
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
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Hey Lucky,
AA actually has 2 clubs in CLT, not just one. There’s the “state capital rotunda” and another one in B
I'm torn. I fly to CLT on Delta a lot, mainly from LGA. That new section of Concourse A is so far from security and the exits, it feels like getting out of the airport takes longer than the flight. Yes, it's nicer to have a club but you can get a week's worth of steps in just one day now.
And AA flyers won't be jealous of the club, they'll never be anywhere near it.
Finally some fair and balanced poasting. This lounge is just a small part of why Delta's RASM is $1,000,000 when American's is $0.00000000001
Kudos to DL. Hopefully this is a wakeup call to AA with their 4th world country mindset (not even 3rd world) in one of their biggest hub. I do understand the need to keep cost down, but it's really such a disgrace for any flyer flying AA from CLT (and PHL to that extend).
This is why Delta SkyClubs have long been hailed as the best credit card lounges. And henceforth become so crowded.
Sadly AA's monopoly (largest % fortress hub in the US) means there's virtually no transcon service, which means West Coast flyers are stuck with the trash that is AA and the half burnt down Admiral's Club at CLT.
Is it possible for Delta to launch LAX/SEA service to CLT? Delta interior hub connections are way too tight and inevitably lead to delays from having to be rebooked.
Anyone hearing rumors of a Skyclub coming to IAH or Hobby? We'd be over the moon! The IAH Centurion lounge is awful and too far from the DL gates.
A few weeks ago, my connecting AA flight was delayed out of CLT so I took a walk to the DL gate area. Wow, it looks nothing like the AA gates most of us are used to. Wide open spaces, available seats, plenty of charging ports. Definitely the opposite of the B/C third world gate chaos.
Ideally, this new club competitor combined with Delta adding routes will spur American to up their game in CLT by adding a club in E and expediting the BC replacement. Otherwise AA risks losing pax and revenue in their fortress.
CLT is a literal zoo. Except even zoo animals get more space and are treated with more dignity by the staff. It’s what happens when you pair low landing costs with insufficient airport capacity and over 70% of your pax are connecting.
I hate it, yet I have to go there far more frequently than I desire. And AA remains the only viable West Coast option for nonstops.
I’ve always wondered why United has never attempted flights from Charlotte to San Francisco (or at least not anytime recently).
Y’all really have the other kind of TDS (TimDunn Derangement Syndrome).
Half of the first 8 comments are about him, and he hasn’t even shown up or typed a single letter.
You all love to complain about him, but let him live in your head rent free and actively egg him on before he’s here.
I did also find that strange considered UA even has a SFO-ATL flight. With Spirit exiting the market, I think all the major West Coast airports are served from CLT by AA only, LAX/SFO/SAN/SEA/SNA.
I would guess, AA has exactly captured the entirety CLT to West Coast market with their scheduled flights meaning that any additions/frequencies would only depress yields, leaving no room for competition.
CLT just isn’t that high up on the O&D, so serving them just a few times daily is the perfect amount for the West Coast market. Also CLT isn’t exactly high yield outside of important banking clientele, which AA has locked up in corporate contracts.
How CLT can be a primary hub for AA with those 2 sh$tholes for an AC is beyond imagination. The C Club keeps getting a call from 1984 business travelers wanting their lounge back. With no need for outlets because they have nothing to plug into those missing outlets.
And AA management can't figure out why their financials look more like Spirit versus UA or DL.
American passengers would be jealous if the truly evil and despicable Delta provided a lounge that was the Black Hole Of CCU. The Admirals' Clubs there are truly disgusting.
first, DL is the #2 airline in more AA and UA hubs than the other way around. People wonder how DL gets its revenue premium and it is about its domestic size not just in its own hubs but also in competitive markets.
UA simply has no hub in the SE which is why they are so far below AA, DL and WN in domestic size.
Second, AA has been trying for decades to have a competitive hub to ATL in the SE and with the US merger, gained one in CLT after trying on its own to build separate hubs at RDU and BNA -and closing both. Like at DFW, AA pushes huge amounts of connecting traffic through CLT with low minimum connect times given the size and complexity of the facility - which is part of why AA's system on-time is consistently worse than DL's. Connecting itineraries on AA via CLT are typically $15-25 cheaper than on DL via ATL so there is a price for what DL can get over the chaos that is CLT on the ground or even the massive complex at DFW. AA's baggage handling rates system wide are consistently near the bottom of the industry undoubtedly due to CLT and DFW which are overscheduled relative to the size of the hubs and the facilities at both airports.
Third, CLT is like BNA in that both are too close to ATL to get much if any traffic but DL does serve both cities well to its eastern US hubs; CLT only gets service as far as SLC from CLT while DL has all 3 western US hubs. That is a function of the small local market and AA's command of the local CLT market, even if it is with low quality service.
finally, the CLT SkyClub is larger than the AUS, BNA, and MCI SkyClubs, all of which are fairly new, indicating that DL is willing to invest in larger SkyClubs were it can get the space.
The DL advantage at CLT is space and order at an airport where that is non-existent on AA.
Terminal A is a punishment for anyone who dares not fly American, but all the DL flights seem to be sequestered over there, so while it's a zillion steps and a half from the security checkpoint, the Sky Club is spitting distance from Delta's gates if that is what you are flying. I was just there a couple weeks ago and it looked like a nice spot they were putting together.
If you are trying to do an Amex Platinum visit though, hard pass if your connection is in any other concourse, regardless of layover time. Concourse A is the "F You for not flying American" concourse. Even with a 4+ hr layover, the walk to the very end of A sucks
Connected in CLT last week for the first time in 40 years.
I hope it’s another 40 before I have to go back.
I actually think Charlotte airport is quite nice, especially compared to airports in the northeast like Philadelphia. The A concourse is especially nice, and some AA flights depart out of there. B and C have been nicely renovated and the main atrium is really nice. Even E is actively being renovated and departing on a regional flight is turning into a nice experience. They have some decent restaurants including 1897 market and CPK.
I will say that it can get quite crowded, but the advantage of Charlotte is that it doesn't have that many international flights, so it's not crowded like JFK. Also, AA has become way more reliable in the past few years so its not as painful to connect there as it was in the past.
However, the AA lounges absolutely suck. The Admirals club near C and D is just a former US Airways club and hasn't been renovated since. It's old, crowded, and outdated. The lounge in B is nicer and has been renovated but it's quite small so it can get really crowded. Also, the food options have always been lacking. I will say though that the C and D lounge is being renovated and will be the largest Admirals club in the system, so I'm looking forward to seeing that open. There will never be a Flagship lounge in CLT because there aren't many international flights.
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Connecting through CLT isn’t that bad. It isn’t great either as there are a lot of choke points that make getting around challenging and then not enough space once you get to your gate. The problem is getting in and out of there. The airport just isn’t designed to handle that many passengers ground side. Construction to improve this has made it even more painful, but it is still going to be bad when it’s done.
you don't care because you don't want to read that DL figured out how to hub in the SE and built ATL into a world-class hub but lots of people do.
DL realized 75 years ago that Atlanta's geography gave it an advantage as a hub long before the South and Southeast became comparable to other parts of the US in wealth.
The City of Atlanta rebuilt ATL 50 years ago as the US airline industry deregulated to create the world's busiest airport and DL has built its hub at ATL into the world's largest and probably most profitable hub in the US.
Other airlines have tried other hubs in the SE but none come close to what DL has in ATL.
US built on Piedmont's hub, AA built on US' hub, but the airport simply handles far more traffic than it can handle.
AA simply cannot and will not spend the money to build a terminal capable of handling the traffic that flows through CLT or what the local market generates.
The larger theme is that there will be very few if any major expansions or reconstructions of existing major hubs because doing so is simply too expensive if space at any of those airports can be found.
UA is spending massively to build new terminal facilities but they will pay a price which AA simply cannot.
DL's large domestic size means it can be competitive in other airline hubs and it is clear from the past decade that DL has succeeded at winning over high value travelers even in AA strength markets.
Y’all really have the other kind of TDS (TimDunn Derangement Syndrome).
Half of the first 8 comments are about him, and he hasn’t even shown up or typed a single letter.
^This.
UA simply has no hub in the SE which is why they are so far below AA, DL and WN in domestic size.
Don't know if it's that, any more than DL not having a hub in the south-central (while every other member of the Big4 does).
UA failed to grow its shorthaul fleet from the days of Shuttle and TED, divesting more aircraft than it brought in, for nearly a decade and a half. Didn't help that it then bought a large carrier who also struggled with the worst RJ-to-mainline shorthaul fleet in the country, at the time.
"first, DL is the #2 airline in more AA and UA hubs than the other way around."
Really? I count exactly 1 airport (IAD) and by an insignificant margin.
Based on traffic numbers, mostly 2023 since that's the only full year available, but relative statistics haven't moved that much.
United Hubs
SFO (UA 46.7%, AS 12.3%, DL 7.9%)
IAH (UA 72.28%, NK 6.35%, AA 4.72%
ORD (UA 40.58%, AA 22.76%, OO 9.29%)
EWR (UA 68.1%, NK 5.7%, B6 4.8%)
DEN (UA 46.8%, WN 30.9%, F9 9.6%)
Only at IAD (UA 70.42%, DL 5.12%, AA 3.44%)
American Hubs
ORD (UA 40.58%, AA 22.76%, OO 9.29%)
DFW (AA 68,73%, MQ 10.32%, NK 4.39%)
PHX (WN 33.71%, AA 33.05%, DL 7.17%)
PHL (AA 61.68%, F9 12.31%, NK 6.9%)
CLT (AA 69.64%, NK 2.44%, DL 2.25%)
DCA (AA 27.89, WN 14.8%, DL 9.15%)
Delta Hubs
ATL (DL 72.45%, WN 9.01%, NK 4.47%)
MSP (DL 57.92%, OO 8.23%, SY 5.63%)
DTW (DL 55.7%, NK 11.75%, OO 9.22%)
BOS (B6 26.98%, DL 21.74%, AA 14.29%)
JFK (DL 26.9%, B6 26.3%, AA12.8%)
SEA (AS 49.21%, DL 19.85%, OO 7.0%)
SLC (DL 56.69%, OO 14.49%, WN 11.56%)
LAX is an outlier since all three claim it's a hub and the relatively close, but DL is definitely the largest.
LAX (DL 19.76%, AA 14.95%, UA 14.82%).
What makes CLT my go to airport and AA my go to airline (live in city in SE where I could choose UA, DL or AA) is the staff, especially the bartenders, at the Amex lounge. They are the warmest and friendliest people you will ever meet. Not once have they been in a bad mood and they always remember my name even though I am only there a couple times a month. I also like the location of the bar in the back corner. It is cozy. It is this kind of experience that makes flying tolerable, your kind of home away from home. I was just in Atlanta and while the lounge is beautiful, it is cold and impersonal. The bar staff was rude and not interested in a conversation. No thank you.
DTW,
it should be clear that the comparison is BETWEEN the big 3.
My statement is correct that DL is the #2 GLOBAL carrier (AA, DL, UA) in more AA and UA hubs than the other way around.
Concorde,
each of the big 3 have some "hole" in their network. AA has no mountain hub and is the weakest in the west as a whole.
But AA and DL are neck in neck in total domestic revenue with DL carrying more ASMs on its own aircraft.
and it still comes down to where carriers can grow domestically. CLT doesn't work from an operational standpoint now even though it moves lots of passengers for AA.
AA has some of the most challenging hubs from a connecting standpoint and the cost to operate; DFW is a high labor cost hub esp. for bag transfers because of over how many terminals the operation is spread.
MIA is one of AA's newest hubs and already has major issues with the facility.
AA likely won't have much new club growth or refurbishment compared to DL and UA.
UA is expanding its hubs and will pay a huge price to do so and will get some nice new clubs in the process.
DL will do fairly minor updates to its hubs - much is behind it - and is now investing in medium sized and non-hub cities as well as upgrading clubs throughout its system, a relatively small expense compared to the large scale expansions and refurbishments that UA is doing.
CLT probably won't be the last new non-hub club for DL.
Classic. Get caught in a lie, so move the goal posts.
Quite frankly, it's not even worth going back and re-doing the numbers with your "new" assertion.
1) even if it were true, the percentages compared to the top 2 carriers, are statistically meaningless. Single digits, and the margin between the rankings at the bottom of the scale is insignificant.
2) again, even if it were true, being #2 is a meaningless metric. They are just flying to their hub cities anyway and it's not as if they are capturing some magic high yield traffic vs the main hub carrier.
3) You can't ignore the ULCC, B6, and WN. They are very relevant given they are almost universally the biggest players in most markets outside the hub carrier and put tremendous pressure on yields in the markets they serve.
But nice try. You just reinforced you lie.
because you don't understand what I said does not make what I said a lie.
The fact is that Delta does a better job in other airline hubs than AA or UA do.
btw, DL is larger than UA in AA's hubs at PHL, DCA, CLT, MIA, DFW and PHX
DL is larger than AA at SFO, LAX (divided hub but that is the point), DEN, IAD and EWR.
AA is larger than DL at IAH. ORD is obviously a divided hub.
and, no, the ULCCs aren't the largest carriers in most markets competitive with legacy/global carriers. LAS, MCO and FLL are not "most markets"
And in case you missed it, WN's presence in DL hubs is shrinking while it still has its own hubs at PHX and DEN, AA and UA hubs.
DL and WN split the title of largest in the top 100 cities - but WN doesn't have lounges while DL does.
It isn't a surprise that market size in other airline hub and secondary cities explains why DL has so many more airports with clubs than AA or UA
No, I understand what you wrote.
First you said, "first, DL is the #2 airline in more AA and UA hubs than the other way around."
Factually not true.
Then you amended the sentence and said, "it should be clear that the comparison is BETWEEN the big 3.
My statement is correct that DL is the #2 GLOBAL carrier (AA, DL, UA)"
You moved the goal posts.
Then I said, "even if it were true, the percentages compared to the top 2 carriers, are statistically meaningless. Single digits, and the margin between the rankings at the bottom of the scale is insignificant."
Which you ignored.
"The fact is that Delta does a better job in other airline hubs than AA or UA do. " Conjecture with no basis in facts.
"btw, DL is larger than UA in AA's hubs at PHL, DCA, CLT, MIA, DFW and PHX"
Assuming this is true, it's meaningless.
You then go on to say, "and, no, the ULCCs aren't the largest carriers in most markets competitive with legacy/global carriers. LAS, MCO and FLL are not "most markets"
Read my sentence again below. "Market" here is referring to hubs.
"You can't ignore the ULCC, B6, and WN. They are very relevant given they are almost universally the biggest players in most markets outside the hub carrier"
"DL and WN split the title of largest in the top 100 cities - but WN doesn't have lounges while DL does. "
What the hell does having a lounge have to do with anything.
"It isn't a surprise that market size in other airline hub and secondary cities explains why DL has so many more airports with clubs than AA or UA"
These are just laughable statements. The market size of DL is fractionally tiny in the major UA and AA hubs. Smaller than even NK, WN, and F9 in some markets. Guess what, the inverse is also true for UA and AA in DL hubs. Wow, what a revelation!
Odd choice. What if your connecting flight is far from the Centurion? Pretty weird way to choose what airport to fly through. As you’ll see in the rest of the comments, CLT is universally viewed as way too croweded and a total S show.
the topic clearly went over your head.
Legacy and global carriers operate airport lounges as do credit card companies.
ULCCs do not. and they are shrinking.
WN does not.
and the list of AA and UA hub markets where DL is the 2nd largest carrier INCLUDING CLT - regardless of LCC and ULCCs - is a whole lot longer than AA or UA's lists on the same basis.
DL has more SkyClub locations in other airline hub and secondary city locations than AA or UA.
I wonder how this makes sense for Delta considering that it is not one of their transit hubs or high volume traffic places
There is nothing about the design that is neoclassical in decor or architecture. That aside, it's interesting to see Delta having Sky Clubs at Charlotte, Chicago O'Hare, Denver, and Dallas. And at two of those airports (Charlotte and O'Hare), the Sky Clubs there are better than the Sky Clubs at Delta's hubs in Atlanta and Detroit.
For the life of me I don't understand how Delta can have Sky Clubs at Denver, Dallas, Chicago O'Hare, and now Charlotte -- I'll add Newark to the list -- but not Houston. The concourse that Delta uses at IAH is awful in terms of food or drink choices. I sometimes go to the KLM or Air France lounges at IAH, but they're really awful.
and DCA, SFO, MIA - all of which are not DL hubs but are hubs for other airlines so, by definition, are high volume.
It's like talking to a 3 year old.
The Topic is about DL opening a lounge in CLT.
You start in on your, UA and AA are dominated by DL, secondary markets lounge locations, unsupportable assertions, continuous other bits of drivel.
I responded to that. Was that off topic. Yes. A topic drift that you started.
"and the list of AA and UA hub markets where DL is the 2nd largest carrier INCLUDING CLT - regardless of LCC and ULCCs - is a whole lot longer than AA or UA's lists on the same basis."
NO IT IS NOT. And for the 3rd time, the percentages differences are statistically insignificant and isn't a clear indication of profitability.
"DL has more SkyClub locations in other airline hub and secondary city locations than AA or UA."
When AA and UA have more hubs in the largest metro centers in the US and DL does not, that's not surprising.
Looks nice. The vast majority of us who transit CLT frequently are, statistically speaking, AA flyers and will never even get within line of sight of it, however. So...no impact to the travel experience.
I am baffled that anyone thinks connecting in CLT is anything other than a hassle. Reminds me of our local high school that was renovated with great fanfare to a capacity of 1750 students and promptly opened with an enrollment of 2100.