Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, many airlines stopped using Russian airspace, which has certainly proven to be an operational headache. Some airlines were forced to stop using Russian airspace (due to government bans), while other airlines stopped using Russian airspace out of an abundance of caution.
Continue reading: Cathay Pacific Resumes Using Russian Airspace
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Can I suggest an update to the opening sentence for accuracy. Instead of stopped avoiding, maybe stopped utilizing or stopped using. The opening is inaccurate as outlined in the rest of the article.
@ Andrew -- Thanks for the correction! Haven't had enough coffee yet, clearly. Fixed.
“ The reality is that China/Hong Kong aren’t really taking much of a stand with this conflict”
Nonsense.
There are two “stands”.
There is the “We will sanction/no longer do business with Russia” stand.
And there’s the “We will continue to do business with Russia and not sanction them” stand.
China/Hong Kong is taking the second “stand”.
Existing aircraft types do not have the ability to fly NYC/BOS/WAS/ORD/YYZ-HKG nonstop with a full payload without going over Russia. HK had hotel quarantine so not many people traveled - for a time this was fine but now it is reopened passenger numbers have significantly increased. CX would have to basically discontinue its transpacific network in order to not use Russian airspace. While AY pretty much did just this, HK is not a part of the EU and similar sanctions do not apply. No one should expect CX to follow AY as an HK entity why would it burn money to follow rules that don't apply to it?
It's also not down to the Chinese government. AI uses Russian airspace for a similar reason (they cannot operate to the US west coast nonstop otherwise, and guess what that's where the high-yielding tech traffic is, very similar to CX where the high yielding traffic is to the east coast financial centers). As time goes on more and more carriers will return to Russian air space. I won't be surprised even if JL/NH/KE did so in the next year or two. EU carriers would be a long time away...
Hong Kong is China and 2047 is here. China and Russia are close and if you are not aware there is a lot of Russian business now flowing into HK. This only establishes the fact that Cathay (which means China) is not worried about flying in Russian Airspace as no one will bother them.
A second-tier airline from a second-tier Chinese city resuming flight paths from a second-tier nation which overflies a third-tier nation. News?
I never cease to be amazed by US exceptionalism. This "second-tier Chinese city" is cleaner and safer than any large US city by a long mile. Not to mention that Cathay Pacific is infinitely better than literally any American airline.
‘As of November 2022, Pacific will resume using Russian airspace on select flights to North America.’
*Cathay Pacific*
Absolutely.
There's a fascist nation at war with the world. You play ball with them, or you don't. Not complicated.
You take a chance getting on one of these flights. Sooner or later, one of their aircraft will need to divert while over Russian airspace. CX can spout talking points about how they would never divert to a Russian airport, but come on, what is a Chinese promise worth? (See, One Nation Two Systems policy). Your flight or someone on it has issues, you're landing in Russia "out of an abundance of caution" of course. You de-plane somewhere in Siberia. Start thinking about the foreign hostages now in Russian gulags hoping for a prisoner swap someday.
Vlad - and yet.....thousands (if not tens of thousands) are trying to get into the US on a daily basis....TO LIVE.... not just to visit to practice their Mandarin or try Manhattan clam chowder......Conundrum, huh?
Correct, without flights over Eastern Russia CX would have to either cancel or unload some cargo/passengers from some flights. Saving fuel (which China buys from Russia) is always a good idea.
I do see many comments saying how dare CX is trying to get back into their core business. But I am sure that the same folks are buying staff from China and typing this on Chinese made laptops. Keeping in mind that China did not stop trading with Russia and is running its economy partially on Russian energy, would you change your habits tomorrow?
Dropping the F word? It's lost all meaning after you accuse half this country of being fascist. Now it just means basically some leftist on a keyboard is upset his mom didn't do his laundry. Pretty sure ole Vlad wants things back how they were in the old USSR, and there's another word for that ideology: Communist. So he's your comrade there, lefty.
Well, from a Russian perspective, it is not illegal for US citizens to enter the country. They need a visa, but in case of a diversion, the police usually escort the passengers and crew to a hotel and no visa is needed. So no relevant risk, if you ask me.
You get the meanings all wrong. You should never overestimate the intelligence of an average John.
A second-tier airline from a second-tier Chinese city resuming flight paths from a second-tier nation which overflies a third-tier nation.
Air Canada from Vancouver resuming flight paths from Canada overflies Mongolia.
And yet again we see the slow grip of China on the peninsula of Hong Kong, they should drop the SAR and just re unify, get the pain over with. I feel so sad for Hong Kong citizens.
No relevant risk?
You probably never heard of Brittney Griner.
CX is doing the right thing to avoid diversion to Russia.
Well look at what Belarus did with Ryanair when they wanted someone who was on that plane.
Wouldn’t be far-fetched for Russia.
Those who elects to book on CX for personal travel will do so at their own risk. Many companies I am positive will have CX removed from the approved carrier list for the safety and security of their employees.
Well, most Chinese and Hong Kongers want to move to Canada rather than the US.
CX has been virtually shuttered because of covid restrictions and they are just now trying to get back in the longhaul business just as winter weather compounds the problems w/ avoiding Russian airspace.
CX's JFK-HKG route can make it on the A350-1000 and avoiding Russian airspace if they can use polar routes over Canada and Alaska and then come back down paralleling Japan but there are frequent winter storms over the Aleutians which make it impossible to use those routes, forcing the flight over SEA/YVR and then over to Japan. They have flown JFK-HKG over Europe and Central Asia but either route gets harder and harder to do with winter weather.
As long as US airlines have to avoid Russian airspace, UA will not be able to restart its EWR-HKG flight so cx sees an opportunity just as Air India does from SFO to India.
The temptation to gain economically often transcends political ideologies.
I could walk around Hong kong anytime of the day and not feel in danger for one second. I would not go walking in any major USA city after 8pm. The human waste in San Fran and Portland is third world country level.
I’ve flown cathay pacific to hong kong in 1st before. JAL in first is much nicer, despite the bizarre love OMaT had for cathay pacific first for a while. Hong Kong was fine. No biggie. A bit tacky.
I see you are someone with compassion for the homeless and a strange fear of “others”. You should get out more, life doesn’t have to be so scary.
Will not fly any Carrier that goes over that country despite the time saving’s. When Russia starts acting like a real country instead of a gas station with nukes I may change my mind.
As I recall, it was Russian Government who banned most of Western airlines from using Russian air space after Western countries banned Russian planes from entering their air space. It was never a problem for Chinese airlines.
So, I would guess that if Russian Government right now would lift their ban, most of European airline would fly over Russia in order to save money and increase their profits.
Great, now if you're a westerner, would you risk flying in a Chinese carrier over Russian airspace? To be honest most of us would probably be under the radar and would be unaffected, but I personally wouldn't risk an "emergency landing" in Russia because someone in your flight "has a bomb." Then again, I wouldn't risk flying CX or going to Hong Kong anyway.
If you're connecting to another Asian city: EVA Air, Singapore, ANA, JAL, Korean Air... these are all better options
nice opinion.
My mind feels much safer roaming any dark US city than in HK with their thought police lurking in every shadow.
I remember a Malaysian flight to Amsterdam was shot with Russian ordinance over Ukraine about eight years ago. Russia denied responsibility as one would expect. It is this type of unaccountable action that should be considered before using Russian air space in the current political climate.
Only an NPC who follows the current thing would be thinking about where the plane flies over.
So true, and especially the part 'hoping for a prisoner swap someday'. The current administration already swapped the Flores 'Narcosobrinos', nieces of the dictator Nicolás Maduro who smuggled almost a tonne of cocaine into the US, for innocent American political prisoners (CITGO executives) in Venezuela.
#Mantis
As a non-political European, I am just curious why do you get so upset if Russia is called a fascist nation? Generally it is understood, that a fascist ruler wields supreme power and authority over a country. Wouldn't that apply to the current state of affairs in Russia, a country that complicates the lives of all of us?
LOL if you don't want to be thrown in a foreign jail, maybe just maybe don't break that county's laws
When you say a "facist nation" you're referring to the US and the Biden Admin, right?
Russia and Ukraine have been fighting for years long before this so called invasion. Look how big Russia is. Your chances of flying an ultra long haul without entering Siberia are null.
"so called invasion".
Pretty obvious who you're shilling for when you try to deny Russia's invaded Ukraine.
Uh, yeah... because Russia always follows the laws and applies them fairly.
Just look at any of the headline matters involving Russia to see how untrue that is.
Well, simpleton, Russia is a sovereign nation that can make its own laws. They have chosen, rightly, to ban marijuana. Brittany decided she was above that law, got caught, and is now suffering the consequences.
Agreed, could be dangerous but CX needs to take that risk rn. Interesting fact about the weather over the Aleutians, didn’t know there could be storms that bad affecting air travel
Well, super simpleton, when diversions happen, unless you're the pilot, you don't get to chose which sovereign nation you will end up at.
We all know she's a political pawn. If a super simpleton like SwimBikeFly got caught with the same thing 3 years ago, you would probably get locked up a few days then get deported. If super simpleton SwimBikeFly got caught today, it's probably the gulag.
The reality of the situation is that Cathay is using the Eastern part of the country which is not near Ukraine. Russia is a big place. To avoid the air space because of something several thousand miles away doesn't make sense either.
The guy who ordered the invasion of Ukraine is the same guy who controls the rest of the Russia. An emergency landing anywhere in Russia (due to a maintenance or medical emergency, or whatever) could still be problematic.
Basically this means that Cathay is funding the war with the money they need to spend for using Russian airspace. That's something everyone should think from now on when using Cathay. Writing this from Finland so this situation really sucks since all routes to Asia is 2-3 hours longer but Im still happy that airlines are not funding Russia with using their airspace.
“NPC” is a real red flag we’re dealing with like a 4chan basement dweller here
And yet it's Trump and the Republican party that's actively rooting for Putin to win while "lefty" Joe Biden is the one trying to take him down and support the democracy in Ukraine. Guess that makes Trump a communist?
I guess people are free to make their own decision, but personally, even as an American citizen, I wouldn't hesitate to fly CX. China is one of Russia's closest allies (such as it is...). CX was never banned from using Russian airpsace. If they had to divert to Russia, their passengers will be fine. Even Putin is not so stupid as to essentially hijack a Chinese airplane. Even if not a single Chinese citizen was on the plane (unlikely), China would not look too kindly at one of their major carriers being used in such a matter, which would basically guarantee no foreigner (or Chinese for that matter) would fly CX again. Even if the government in Beijing wants to knock CX down a peg or two, this is not the way to do it, and you'd bet there would be an uproar and Putin would likely face far bigger consequences than whatever he thinks he might gain from this stunt.
This is not to mention that Russia is desperate for foreign currency (including RMB), so whatever landing fees they receive would be well appreciated. Let's face it, Russia is still supplying gas to *Europe*, countries that are actively arming Ukraine, because they need the cash. Do you really think they'd mess with an airline of their main ally?
The only consideration I could see is that, due to the war effort, Russia's airport services and ATC might be degraded to the point where it may not be safe. Furthermore, due to Western sanctions, if CX diverts due to mechanical issues, getting parts imported to the diversion airport to fix the plane might be problematic (would probably require some sort of diplomatic exception which would need negotiation at the highest levels of government given that both Airbus and Boeing are specifically banned from exporting spare parts to Russia right now). If I had to guess, this is probably the main reason CX is reluctant to divert to Russia, even while using Russian airspace. Not some Hollywood movie plot about Russia taking passengers from a routine diversion as hostages.
Ad hominem attack for the loss. Revealing....
She is 100% a political pawn at this point, despite whatever you think about plants.
The ME3 fly to Moscow . I have a Russian tourist visa. I just need to pay everything in rubles as US bank issued credit cards won’t work there. Visa , AMEX , MasterCard, etc won’t work at your hotel.
Who’s winning the war ? Have more Russians died or Ukrainians ? How did Zallenskyy become a billionaire overnight ? What did you think of his vanity fair photo shoot ? How would you know what is really going on over there when Russian news has been banned and your only news source is NPR due to censorship?
Political pawn, yes 100%. Still doesn't change the fact that she broke a law and got caught though. Both things can be true.
After reading the comments, I just have to shake my head. As an American who lives and works in Russia, a lot of the notions about Russia spouted by uninformed individuals are absolute nonsense. Do in-depth research to really understand the root causes of the conflict, because you'll get no unbiased media sources, neither from Russia, the US, Ukraine, etc. All the media is too emotionally involved in creating an "us vs. them" mentality.
Regarding the flights over Russia, no, you won't end up in a gulag in Siberia if your plane has to make an emergency landing. No, you're not going to be arrested for no reason at the border. In fact, I've entered Russia dozens of times (including recently), and never once had problems, but was detained and aggressively questioned at the US border in Atlanta back in August because of my long absence from the US (I rode out the pandemic in Russia).
Exactly. This precedent set by Belarus and RyanAir remains my biggest concern; kidnapping insurance would have to allay this concern.
The other concerns about the US-Russia proxy war in Russia, the West's cut back on commerce with Russia, etc., don't interest me as long as western airlines continue to purchase Saudi oil on the world oil market.
I never cease to be amazed by CP apologists. Welcome to the real world, where real air passengers desire neither kidnapping and prision labor by Russian dictators nor quarantining and prison labor by Chinese CP.
Um, I'm old enough to remember a Boeing 747-230B with the registration HL7442 which would never arrive at its final destination.
Asia is continent filled with countries governed by notorious dictatorship. I always feel a certain level of risk when flying in Asia. I have second thoughts about many air routes in Asia.
Congrats Jesse, you win the most amoral reader award, as the loan sketchy U.S. citizen still doing sketchy business in a sketchy kleptocracy.
Please take it from the guy commenting here who studied, wrote about academically, and knows a lot about fascism, which isn’t you, that Putin easily satisfies the core tenants of what is defined in modern times as ideological fascism.
Also this D3kingg person is an insane conspiracy theorist who should be IP-banned, fwiw, unless that’s an audience you want to cultivate, Ben.
To those American having an issue with this flight... Stay home... This is Asia and not the West... If there is war in Syria nobody gives a sh.... Why should we care here... Hypocrites, that's what you are... I prefer the most direct flight to anywhere... And Cathay provides it.. End of story.. As I said.. If you don't like it.. Stay home or fly your own airliners
Malaysia Airlines fight 17 (over the Ukraine), Korean Airlines flight 007 (over Eastern Russia) were both shot down by them. Who knows the odds of a largely British owned (The Swire Group) Cathay Pacific airliner being shot down but we are in contentious times where authoritarianism and democracies are aligning against each other. That "safety" category should include this history and current events in the calculation.
The argumentum ad populum is quite fallacious.