Cathay Pacific Orders 30 Airbus A330-900neos

Great to finally see another global connector selecting this aircraft!

(Meh, I guess you can sorta count MH).

It's also worth to mention, that Cathey ordered the freighter variant of the A350.

Given all the Airbus planes already in the fleet and the future deliveries it did make sense to go with the A330.
Unlike BA or LH there's no excessive government support to cover shortfalls like the COVID crisis. There's space for technology narcissism in such a lean operation.

Hopefully the retarded R&R CEO got the memo, that he has to deliver reliable engines, that live up to the promised performance at a competitive price point. Decisions should not be driven by shareholders earnings!

Finally!

What’s the definition of “flagship” and who decides this for an airline?

The airline's own marketing makes the decision.

For the industry, it's typically the airline's largest aircraft, but not always... it can also be the aircraft that has the most marketable product, flies a special route, has a special configuration, etc.

An easy example was Concorde being the flagship of BA and AF, despite not being the largest.

The 339 would be perfect for trips secondary Australian routes like Brisbane and Adelaide, as well as over to smaller cities in India.

Can't wait for the 777-9s.

Over to Brisbane and Adelaide would be absolutely wonderful.

On the topic of India do they have additional seats left under the caps? ME3 have been severely restricted due to those

Cathay Pacific continues to be a very sensible, well-run airline. Was quite worried during COVID and with the political developments but they are back on track

This is a major order for the A330NEO and, on top of the recent previous orders, validates that the A330NEO is a valid competitor in the new generation powered widebody segment which Airbus can deliver in a short time frame and at prices below the A350 and B787.
The A330 is widely used in Asia and there are hundreds of A330CEOs as well as early generation 777s that will be replaced in the near future. The 330NEO is fully capable of replacing many of those aircraft.

And as much as some might not want to hear it, Airbus owes alot for the surge in A330NEO orders to Delta which was one of the two carriers that pushed Airbus to launch the A330NEO - which Airbus developed for a mere $2 billion - less than 10% of what Boeing has spent on the B787 and 20% of what Airbus spent on the A350.
Air Asia backed out of most of its A330NEO order but Delta has taken delivery of dozens of A330NEOs - along w/ A350s - and currently uses the A330-900 on the longest route for the type - SEA-TPE.
Delta has helped to keep the A330NEO program running while Airbus has secured more sales; although Delta likely will order more A330NEOs, other airlines are placing enough orders that Airbus no longer needs Delta to keep the A330 program going.
There is good reason why Jon Ostrower of The Air Current says that Delta has such a strong relationship with Airbus that alarm bells go off in France as occurs for no other airline when a Delta Airbus delivery is delayed and why Delta has managed to keep terms on its Airbus aircraft that other airlines either can't get or which Delta gets first.

While I would've loved (and even expected) a 787 mix, it was the safest option. It's already a proven airframe, quicker to acquire, and it was the cheapest out of the bunch. (And that's not even the significant pricing concessions they got from Airbus which just sweetened the deal which was icing on the cake).

I can still see some 787s down the road, so I wouldn't rule it out.

Of course you would turn a post about Cathay into congratulating Delta...

...though for once, it's not unmerited:

Sure there were orders by TAP, ITA, and Malaysia, but Delta was pretty much the only major global connector to show confidence in the A330NEO over the last half-decade.

Emirates almost joined that distinction, but then cancelled their A330NEOs, which was quite a visible blow tot he model; as was it being passed over by Turkish (top 3 A330 operator) and Air France.

For quite some time, it seemed like the -NEO would be relegated to just DL + regional niche players and leisure operators. But orders like this really put it back into contention. Truly hoping that we see the PRC3 follow through as well!

Emirates also has snubbed the A350-1000 even though other Middle East airlines use it.
Air France and Turkish both placed large A350 orders.

Delta was one of the few global carriers before Cathay to decide to fly BOTH the A330NEO and A350 - and CX, like DL, will be flying all of the A330-900, the A350-900 and A350-1000.

While the 777X will likely be close to a decade late by the time it enters service, Airbus is delivering its widebodies pretty close to on-time.

And Rolls-Royce just announced they are expanding production of the Trent 7000 engine but they probably already knew the CX 339 order was coming in order to make their decision.

The 787-9 has greater range but it is not needed for 350 operators, of which CX is one of the largest.
The 787-10 is larger and more cost-efficient than the 339 but overlaps with the 350.

It is very unlikely that many airlines will order both the 787 and an A330/350 combination.

When you think about it, while the 789 does have greater range similar to the 359, it is smaller in terms of seat count. The 789 is the closest to the A343 that they previously had seat wise. The A359 is more of a replacement for the 772ER/A345. The closest replacement for the A343 would be the cancelled A358. Now if Airbus decides to proceed with the A358, that would be a different story.

As for the 7810, it's more of an A333/9+ according to CX who were considering it at the time. And it has more cargo capacity than the A330 which is a huge part of their business.

https://www.flightglobal.com/cathay-mulls-787-10-to-replace-a330s/107862.article

Philippine Airlines could also be a possibility in ordering the neo, but who the hell knows what goes on over there internally as they can't seem to make up their damn mind.

Emirates also has snubbed the A350-1000 even though other Middle East airlines use it.

Not really. He couldn't really make it more clear that he's interested in the variant, but also hates the current time-on-wing stats that other MidEast carriers are seeing, due to silicate ingestion/crystalizing in the core.

Its not all too surprising that they went with the NEO, considering Airbus will be able to deliver it earlier than the Dreamliner. I wonder what kind of deal they got, we know that CASM is pretty neck and neck with the 339 versus 789 versus 359, and at list prices the 359 is priced similarly to 359. Why not just order the 359 have even more fleet commonality? Anyone have any insights or want to play armchair analyst. The only thing that comes to mind is that the 339NEO would have a structure that's designed for higher cycles versus the competition.

Airbus quotes the A350-900's range as 8300 nautical miles while Boeing quotes the 787-9 at 7565 nm.
considering the A350-900 flies 18-19 hour flights even with less than usual standard configuration number of seats but also not on the most capable aircraft, it is clear the A350 is a much longer range aircraft.
AA is getting more range out of its 787s by taking even more seats off than UA has on its 787s.
UA probably will follow suit. even if Boeing adds another 10K to the 787-9s MTOW, they will still end up with less range than the 283 tonne 359 with 275 or more seats.

I presume you meant the 339 and 359 have comparable list prices rather than
"at list prices the 359 is priced similarly to 359"

Delta reportedly is paying about $90 million for 339s which is far less than Boeing can sell the 787.

It is far from clear how much Airbus is selling the 339 for to any other airline but DL also has the engine maintenance contracts from Rolls Royce for the 339's engines so their ownership costs are lower than what any other airline can get for any other widebody.

DL's interest in the 339 was because of ownership costs and Airbus and Rolls-Royce gave them what they wanted.

Cathay is probably paying closer to market rates and will use the 339s on much shorter average length flights than DL or some of the European carriers which regularly fly 12 hour flights on the 339.

Ordering the 339 is probably for 3 reasons for CX:
- The A330neo frankly doesn’t sell well and it’s easy to get delivery slots
- Similarly, cost per aircraft is much lower than it is for a 787, because Airbus is willing to discount
- Also, A359 have a bit too much wing and body for a short haul route; A339 could save some fuel cost.
And for all of Tim’s writing about how Delta’s costs will supposedly be lower than “any other airline,” CX has always been aggressive about optimizing — back pre-2019 their 77W fleet utilization was 16+ hours systemwide. I expect they’ve figured out the A339 is the lowest cost and most efficient option for them.

Tim, CX doesn’t do all that many ultra long hauls that even need the A359 range, but they have expanded in to smaller markets ex-Asia like Tel Aviv and Barcelona and having the A359 size and range isn’t necessary there. HKG is one of the world’s top 5 cargo airports and having cargo capacity > having range for the vast majority of their missions. and for the ones where they do need it, they already have A359/777X.

nobody is doubting that CX chose the right aircraft which provides the lowest cost. The point is that Delta pushed Airbus to develop the A330NEO to save with a 330NEO/350 combo compared to the 787.

and the 787 is also not economical on short flights compared to other aircraft including the 330NEO.
New generation aircraft have high acquisition costs and Airbus split the high costs with new generation engines and minor enhancements to the fuselage and wing compared to the 787 or 350.
that is why Airbus can discount the 330NEO.

DL's interest in the 339 was because of ownership costs and Airbus and Rolls-Royce gave them what they wanted.

The engine part is moot, seeing as the RR-powered 787 uses the same engine as the A330NEO, just with the pneumatic pugs sealed and larger electronics box.

and the 787 is also not economical on short flights compared to other aircraft including the 330NEO.

NH, JL, SQ, BR, CI, QR, HA, KE, and especially EK... all seem to firmly believe otherwise.

I'm glad that Cathay went with the 339 NEO rather than the 787. Better passenger comfort is a win.

and Delta has the engine MRO rights for the Trent 1000 which powers the 787 because the engines between the 330NEO and RR powered 787s are so similar.

As for all of the other airlines you list, that doesn't change that it costs more to fly a new generation aircraft on short distances than it does an older generation aircraft. Those airlines have just chosen to pay the higher price.
And ultimately, airlines can't optimize every route to the best airplane - the complexities are just too high.

Delta is probably using the 339 on routes where the 350 would be better operationally and from the perspective of economics and we likely will see some of the DL TPAC routes switch to the 350 from the 339 perhaps as soon as next year as the number of new 350 deliveries accelerates - they will have at least 10 new A350s for 2024 and the first half of 2025 - and will also have a chunk -perhaps all - of the ex-Latam 350s converted to standard DL cabins which will make them usable on routes where DL wants its standard product and not just the high capacity model that the ex-Latam 350s have been doing while DL has waited for cabin furnishings and MRO time.

It is equally possible to use a plane beyond its ideal range even if the aircraft can do it while also using planes on shorter routes than where they deliver optimal performance

The airline's own marketing makes the decision.

For the industry, it's typically the airline's largest aircraft, but not always... it can also be the aircraft that has the most marketable product, flies a special route, has a special configuration, etc.

An easy example was Concorde being the flagship of BA and AF, despite not being the largest.

Over to Brisbane and Adelaide would be absolutely wonderful.

On the topic of India do they have additional seats left under the caps? ME3 have been severely restricted due to those

Of course you would turn a post about Cathay into congratulating Delta...

...though for once, it's not unmerited:

Sure there were orders by TAP, ITA, and Malaysia, but Delta was pretty much the only major global connector to show confidence in the A330NEO over the last half-decade.

Emirates almost joined that distinction, but then cancelled their A330NEOs, which was quite a visible blow tot he model; as was it being passed over by Turkish (top 3 A330 operator) and Air France.

For quite some time, it seemed like the -NEO would be relegated to just DL + regional niche players and leisure operators. But orders like this really put it back into contention. Truly hoping that we see the PRC3 follow through as well!

The 787-9 has greater range but it is not needed for 350 operators, of which CX is one of the largest.
The 787-10 is larger and more cost-efficient than the 339 but overlaps with the 350.

It is very unlikely that many airlines will order both the 787 and an A330/350 combination.

I presume you meant the 339 and 359 have comparable list prices rather than
"at list prices the 359 is priced similarly to 359"

Delta reportedly is paying about $90 million for 339s which is far less than Boeing can sell the 787.

It is far from clear how much Airbus is selling the 339 for to any other airline but DL also has the engine maintenance contracts from Rolls Royce for the 339's engines so their ownership costs are lower than what any other airline can get for any other widebody.

DL's interest in the 339 was because of ownership costs and Airbus and Rolls-Royce gave them what they wanted.

Cathay is probably paying closer to market rates and will use the 339s on much shorter average length flights than DL or some of the European carriers which regularly fly 12 hour flights on the 339.

Ordering the 339 is probably for 3 reasons for CX:
- The A330neo frankly doesn’t sell well and it’s easy to get delivery slots
- Similarly, cost per aircraft is much lower than it is for a 787, because Airbus is willing to discount
- Also, A359 have a bit too much wing and body for a short haul route; A339 could save some fuel cost.
And for all of Tim’s writing about how Delta’s costs will supposedly be lower than “any other airline,” CX has always been aggressive about optimizing — back pre-2019 their 77W fleet utilization was 16+ hours systemwide. I expect they’ve figured out the A339 is the lowest cost and most efficient option for them.