Early Sunday morning an Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashed shortly after takeoff, making it the second 737 MAX to crash during the initial phase of flight in the past several months (a Lion Air 737 MAX crashed after takeoff last October). As I addressed in a follow-up post, at this point a lot of…
Continue reading: The Airlines & Countries Grounding The 737 MAX (Updated List)
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
If there's one airline that can't afford a 737 MAX shutdown, it would be Norwegian.
The only way the 737MAX will be grounded in the US anytime soon is if a similar crash happens to AA or Southwest (which I hope won't happen.)
Politically, the US airlines will not ground them without FAA saying they should. Interesting the other airlines saying they're fine with them are the ones probably relying very heavily, like FlyDubai with 14.
@ Joey -- It can be. 😉 We just added the functionality, and in WordPress I just have to click a button and it's added. Right now plan is to add it to any post that has several subheadings (let's say four or five), but not others. If anyone has strong opinions one way or another, let me know!
@Lucky - I agree that you should only include the "in this post" on longer articles. Though I am liking it 🙂
By the way, I have read in over 3 articles that Air Canada has 24 737 MAX 8 aircraft. Just wondering, is the number above (20) how many they operate? Or were other websites counting something else? And the wiki page for AC also says 24 though I don't know how accurate that is.
Two interesting things about Gol. First, the Brazilian Government's equivalent of the FAA was the ONLY agency in the world that last year did not buy into Boeing's campaign that pilots did not need specific training for the MAX and required it.
Second, apparently Gol had tens of thousands of tweets directed to them yesterday saying that "passengers will boycott the MAX" which leads me to believe that the idea Ben poses as a question is a correct one. That is, yes, consumers can force airlines to rethink flying these aircraft and it could then force the NTSB and FAA to also take some quicker action in the initial investigation and lean towards the side of conservative.
And @WP is probably right, the only airline that this would have noticeable effect would be Norwegian. The rest of the carriers? The MAX accounts for 2% and less of their fleets. It's beyond me what the FAA is thinking.
Boeing can't financially afford to ground them. FAA is risking the lives of many because of bad investment decisions of an over-leveraged company.
Agree with others that (sadly) it takes another plane down before FAA is going proactive.
If this was an Airbus I'm sure FAA would have grounded them.
Now this is time for public to boycott and call out FAA.
This is probably one of the few times
leadership of ALPAA APA etc. to show that they represent the safety of their members rather than blackmailing their employers.
#ground737MAX
There needs to be a dialogue with pilots that are actually flying these planes. Have they experienced unusual problems with the MAX aircraft that are out of the ordinary that could constitute a problem? Are the presumed problems that pilots on the Indonesian and Ethiopian aircraft also happening to other MAX pilots? I hear a whole lot of speculation and opinions, but absolutely no pilots publicly coming forward with any actually analysis.
Just learned this. A friend was flying on Gol next week from Miami to Fortaleza on one of their new Miami flights. He was notified that all Miami flights have been halted indefinitely and no longer bookable. Not only did Gol take the initiative to ground the MAX but, unlike a lot of other carriers that this will have little impact, Gol has really taken a hit. The MAX is the only plane they have that can fly to Miami from Brazil and has essentially shut down their North America operations. As well, if you go to their website the entire bookable schedule is shut down throughout the year.
Doug Parker and other top AA execs should take some MAX flights over the next few days to show their confidence in the aircraft.
Such a strange set of events. I'm surprised the airline industry has not acted as one on this.
Correction on South Korea: Eastar Jet has voluntarily grounded its 2 737-8 Max's - Korean government is yet to make official decision on whether to ground the type.
(Unless Korean authorities ground the 737-Max soon) It is going to look interesting when Korean Air starts getting 737-8 Max delivered later this year - given that the current government seems to have quite some grudge both against Korean Air and the USA (as a nation).
Gol has 7 7M8 (from their own note about the grounding: https://voegol.com.br/pt/informacoes/gol-informa/nota-paralizacao-boeing-737-max)
@Lucky
One comment on the UK shutdown - LOT Polish also flies its B737-8 Max on its WAW-LHR routes so they will be immediately impacted as well.
AA cancelled my sunday MIA-MCO flight on a 738 (due to the Oasis issues) and rebooked me on a MAX. I called EP desk and said no thanks. Agent told me I was "not allowed" to make further changes. I love how AA employees make up the rules as they go. I'll fly on a MAX when Dougie and his Arizona frat boy goons decide to finally fly on one.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA1234
How is this Air China flight being operated by a 737 Max 8 if they are all banned in China???
Under Trump the EPA says coal is good for the environment , the FCC says net neutrality hurts customers and the FAA says 737 MAX are safe.
Welcome to the post truth world where regulators are cheerleaders for US companies.
@Greg: So Flightaware is wrong?
Aircraft Type Boeing 737 MAX 8 (twin-jet) (B38M)
@Denis. It's interesting that Gol says in that announcement that all Intl. flights will operate as scheduled using 737NG aircraft. This given that, in fact, they have shut down Miami and all bookings to Brasilia and Fortaleza.
@HP: According to Flightradar the last time this flight was operated by a MAX was on the 10th, so on the day it got grounded. Maybe it was already in the air when the grounding was announced?
@HP, Flightradar says the aircraft operating the flight today is this one: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-6106, which is not a MAX.
@Greg: just left a couple of hours ago, but you are right, Flightaware haven't updated their system. Looked on Flightstats and it says aircraft was swapped with a 737-800 before departure.
The UK groundings also affect LOT Max ops from WAW. @lucky and thoughts on how this could affect Boeing’s future order book/do you think Airbus could capitalize on this situation with its ‘safe’ 320NEO?
I know AC has a 737 max on the YHZ-LHR route. They will probably swap it out with an airbus.
“The Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) is temporarily suspending operation of all variants of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft into and out of Singapore in light of two fatal accidents involving Boeing 737 MAX aircraft in less than five months. The suspension will take effect from 1400hrs, 12 March 2019.
SilkAir, which operates 6 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, will be affected by the temporary suspension. The other airlines currently operating Boeing 737 MAX aircraft to Singapore are China Southern Airlines, Garuda Indonesia, Shandong Airlines and Thai Lion Air. CAAS is working with Changi Airport Group and the affected airlines to minimise any impact to travelling passengers.”
http://www.caas.gov.sg/about-caas/newsroom
It used to be "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going."
Now it's, "If it's not Airbus, I'm taking the bus."
I have a flight from Orlando to Brasilia next week on Gol's 737 MAX 8 and I haven't been notified about a change in the flight. I don't think they have another plane which can fly the route besides the MAX and I've heard some people's flights getting canceled. Still haven't gotten anything from the airline yet. Will probably just refund my ticket and fly LATAM or Delta to São Paulo.
@LM. Gol has suspended all flights to the U.S. at this point (despite what their notice on the website which says that Intl. operations are normal). Some passengers have been notified. They are rebooking people on Delta via GIG or GRU if you call.
Germany is now banning it from their airspace too according to Bloomberg news.
Norwegian and all TUI Fly (various subsidies in some countries) are grounded as well
I'm telling you: something is going on. Some information was obtained this morning about the MAX. Probably from the data recorder that was recovered yesterday. This is happening fast.
I'm betting that the FAA is preparing now its announcement for this afternoon and they are at this point talking to the carriers and working with them on preparing and getting aircraft and crews positioned and on the ground.
Icelandair also, they only have 3 in service
According to Fortune the EU is planning to ban the 737 Max plane as well from their airspace.
http://fortune.com/2019/03/12/europe-uk-grounds-boeing-737-max/
Can the US and Canada be far behind?
@ Stuart
The FAA is probably under political/commercial pressure not to ground. But now both UK and Germany have grounded (likely the rest of EU will follow), their position is becoming difficult. If, God forbid, another accident happens while they have not grounded the MAX, the FAA’s position will be intolerable. The FAA and the UK’s CAA usually march in lock-step.
Ireland and France just joined the ban. It will surely be Europe wide by the end of the day.
Meanwhile Boeing puts its fingers in its ears and ignores what's happening.
Europe Poised to Ground Boeing 737 Max as U.K. Halts Flights https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-12/boeing-737-max-grounded-by-u-k-in-biggest-blow-yet-to-u-s-jet
+EU shortly
According to Bloomberg, Lion Air has refused deliver of current and future 737 Max planes and plans to cancel the remainder of their 737 max order. The airline is instead planning to pivot to Airbus aircraft.
It's actually pretty incredible that we are now seeing a worldwide rebellion against the FAA and Boeing who are now the only ones saying there's nothing to worry about and airlines and national aviation authorities are saying 'we don't believe you'.
Eastar jet voluntarily grounded the MAX. The Korean government has been indecisive.
AA should voluntarily ground their Max 8’s and while they’re on the ground rip out and replace the God-awful interiors they put in them.
SHAME on the FAA. You will have blood on your hands if the unfortunate occurs.
The JET Airways 737 Max aircrafts are grounded as they couldn't pay their lessors.
According to The Guardian:
“A spokesman for the UK civil aviation authority said: “As we do not currently have sufficient information from the flight data recorder [black box] we have, as a precautionary measure, issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.”
...
“There are five 737 Max aircraft registered and operational in the UK, all belonging to TUI. Norwegian has also grounded all its 18 737 Max 8 planes, registered across Europe, including several which it uses to operate transatlantic flights from Edinburgh and Ireland to the US.
“Turkish Airlines also operates 737 Max 8 planes. Two of its flights bound for Britain appear to have been forced to turn back to Istanbul in midair, according to FlightRadar24.”
I called on my flight which was MIA-LAS on the only 737-MAX flight of the day for that route. What is strange is that the flight has many open seats, yet American is not selling any seats for that flight currently. I called and got my flight changed to one of the 757 flights of the day (both non stops) I am lifetime Plat and never changed my flight before like this. A former FAA safety inspector said today he would not fly that plane until we know more. I assume they would change the flight for anyone however. This is a very unusual issue and couldd really become a major issue for AA and others if they cant fly these planes. I am sure tons of customers are calling right now.
I wont expect anything less from a country like the US who loves guns more then their children lives. The 787 was grounded for lesser problems ( with no fatalities) and the 738 Max killed more then 300 people in 5 months and the FAA acts like a little girl coz of political and airlines pressure. The US business model will always go for profits over safety or human lives! There are many more examples of how little they value life.
"The US business model will always go for profits over safety or human lives"
Truer words have never been spoken.
Lots of people here gave me crap yesterday for mentioning the pilots. Turns out the captain was 29 years old and FO was barely over 200 hours from what I read today. I’m not saying there’s no issues with the plane, new tech, training that wasn’t provided, etc, but I do sincerely doubt this happens to a 20 year 30,000 pilot over here — would no problem fly a Max on SW/AA and not worry about safety (would be worried about comfort though...)
Recently booked a flight on the Max with AC. Asked them to change it free of charge. Eventually the change was made to a non-Max operated flight. I can't imagine I was the first customer to call.
AC's flights to Iceland and Bordeaux are no longer bookable.
So in the last few hours, The UK, Austria, Poland, France, Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and Italy have all suspended 737 Max flights, But the USA says it's safe.
Boeing themselves have said they'll be releasing a software update in the coming weeks. Why are they releasing this update? Seems like a good idea to ground all flights worldwide until this update has taken place and fully tested?
The latest round of ban makes me wonder do those government learn something new about the tragedy that made them decide to ground them today.
#ground737MAX
According to the WSJ, Boeing is making significant updates the 737max cockpit software based on the Lion Air Crash. According to the article, Boeing has published the updates on their website although the WSJ article says more information coming soon. Perhaps this new information is the reason so many countries have decided to ground the 737Max?
It's going to take a long time to wipe the blood off the hands of the FAA, AA, SW when the next crash occurs on US soil.
Again, Boeing should voluntarily ground all 737 Max, and stop making itself look bad. Although that would make FAA look really bad now, which FAA deserves now.
You can also now add the UAE, Kuwait, Turkey and Russia who have followed the UK and EU today. ( most of whom have them in their airlines fleets). So everywhere outside North America!
I just want to point out that this sort of thing isn't THAT uncommon with new aircraft designs. Roll the clock back about 30 years ago. The DC-10 and 727 both had pretty bad safety records in their first few years. Once the faults were discovered and fixed, both became safe aircraft. If anyone's interested in this sort of thing, I'd suggest taking a look at the early 727 days. https://www.tmtindustryinsider.com/2016/08/air-safety-the-deadly-boeing-727/
As far as trying to blame Trump on this one, from someone who has had to work with the FAA for years, there's no difference in how the FAA's handling things today compared to when Obama was in office. The FAA has been called the Tombstone Agency for some time. I'll say they've gotten better over the decades, but too often I've found them to be more worried that every checkbox on a piece of paper is checked rather than aircraft are actually safe to fly.
As I'm about to post this, I see even Trump is going after Boeing for this.
"External reports are drawing similarities between this accident and the Lion Air Flight 610 accident on October 29, 2018. However, this investigation has just begun and to date we have not been provided data to draw any conclusions or take any actions."
So much for the precautionary principle, hey.
The first North American domino has fallen. Sunwing has grounded its fleet of 4 MAX's
Let's take emotion and politics out of this. Post Lion Air, Boeing started working on a software fix for MCAS, which is being released next month. Why risk having another accident, however small the chances, in the interim?
This is not about blond support for Boeing. They make amazing airplanes.
I've read that the entire EU has grounded this plane; was from a reliable source (WSJ, I think...)