On Tuesday I posted that I was considering moving, and the response was beyond overwhelming. I was in San Juan for the day with very limited internet access, and once I actually got online there were nearly 200 comments. This is incredibly touching, so thanks to all of you that showed such interest and provided…
Continue reading: So, about my move…
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Just go. Stop overthinking it, pick a random (American) city and go. It will be an experience you'll never forget and those are the best :-).
Lucky, I really think that you need to think more about the positives than the negatives in moving to a new location. This way you'll have a wonderful time no matter where you end up.
I was going to put in a vote for Asia somewhere, but mileage runs are just that much more difficult here.
Late to the oarty, but I have only ever lived in Wisconsin and Austin, TX. Can't go wrong with either of those. I also spent a semester in Anchorage. You would get the mountains up there and the winter wasn't as cold as expected, but the darkness was rough. Don't be afraid if winters, it isn't bad and can actually be fun with the right attitude, a pair of skis and ice skates.
Move to Denver.
1) There's beautiful mountains.
2) The weather is great. 300 days of sunshine a year. Summers are a good temperature (80s usually)...not as bad a Florida. And it hardly ever snows in the winter, except in the mountains. Winter temps are also moderate.
3) It's cheap.
4) It's a hub for United, Frontier, and Southwest which = competition and therefore cheap fares.
5) Lots of great cities within driving distance (Aspen, Boulder, Telluride, etc.)
6) Lots of outdoor activities. I'm not really an active person (I prefer to stay in a W bed all day), but there are a lot of active people here.
As a Seattle resident, I wouldn't say weather "sucks" most of the time - it's just somewhat unique. Either Atlanta or NY each get more rain than Seattle (by volume, not frequency). Similarly, the climate is very moderate temperature-wise. It's just a somewhat personal preferences question on what you think about optimal weather.
Bay Area!! Can't beat the amazing weather, laid-back attitude, diversity, entrepreneur atmosphere, and tons of great restaurants. Yes, rent is ridonkulous right now, but you can probably find a cheaper place outside of the city. Plus, SFO is pretty nice 🙂
P.S. I'm sure your fellow Seattle readers would be happy to welcome you to our corner of the country. Feel free to send email/post if you have questions on neighborhoods/etc.
Florida has no state income taxes. That has to factor into your decisions. If you move to another state that has state incone tax, you'll instantly have less money per month.
As I mentioned on the other post, the rain shadow helps for some parts of Seattle: http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2012/04/rain-shadow-secrets.html
Another reason for SoCal: You have the mountains, desert, and beach all within 2 hours driving distance. I'm not a huge beach guy either, but living in the suburbs of orange county is great. And lots of universities and airports(i.e. young people and travel).
I moved east (maryland) to west (scottsdale) and loved it for close to 10 yrs but I had to move back east for work. I much prefered the dry heat, no issues with snow and 9+ months of great weather. The cost of living was also much better. Being a sports fan I really enjoyed the 2-3 hr earlier start time for many events.
Good Luck
Pick a place and go. Stop over thinking this. If you hate it you move again, no big deal. When I was job hunting in Grad School I had to pick a few places I was interested in moving to. I ended up in San Francisco (I had only visited once before accepting a job here). It was the best thing I did. It was a total adventure and it paid off, I have built a great life here. Don't over think it and be adventurous!
I'd suggest 1-2 months in each west coast place and then you can make a decision. Let me know if you choose Seattle. It's a great city.
Don't know why Portland was ruled out. Care to explain? (Im across the river in SW Washington and PDX is 15 mins away)
Also, why not Vancouver BC?
West Coast is the Best Coast!
That being said, come to San Francisco! Although, LAX provides more flight options, SFO is a much nicer airport. But, if you go to SoCal definitely LA > San Diego!
Thanks for your indepth message about your pending move.
My suggestion, which is my current Flyertalk signature.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
There's something to be said about moving to the other coast just to get it "out of your system". When I moved to DC it was actually REALLY good for my parents - they had to start reading instruction manuals and everything ;-). It actually made us a lot closer too.
When it comes to the actual move, don't be shy. It sounds like several of us have done this several times, and it seems like most folks would be happy to show you around their cities.
Late to the "advice party," but I moved from Texas to the LAX area (Manhattan Beach) about 13 years ago and -- other than a few brutal traffic jams that had me questioning my continued existence -- I haven't regretted it for a minute.
As for travel, I'm 15 minutes or so from LAX, about 30 minutes from Long Beach, 45 minutes from Orange County (John Wayne) and an hour from Burbank. That's 4 airports within an hour drive, and a 5th if you add Ontario (about 1:30+ away).
Plus, I look out my window at an amazing beach/ocean everyday. I'm not a swimmer, surfer or beach volleyball player, but if a walk by the ocean can't calm you down, I don't know what can.
Welcome to the west coast! We need a west coast centric blogger. Trips, lounges, hotels centered around SAN/SNA/LAX/SFO/SEA just to mention a few. We all look forward to hearing about your new adventure.
I wold HIGHLY recommend Seattle or San Diego and Say AVOID LA like the plague! I'm from Seattle, lived in SEA, LA, and SD and SD is by far the best. Big city, lots of beaches, tons to do and more. Only problem is small airport. However lots of connecting flights (More miles?) and LA is only 1.5 hours away!
Honestly New York has the best flight connections, and its the center of the world.
But if you want West Coast and better weather than Seattle, then go try Vancouver, BC.
Don't move to LA, its got too much smog, why not go somewhere else along the coast like Orange County
Isn't it funny that you can do a round the world trip for a year, and not have to think twice about it.
Yet the prospect of actually moving somewhere (a single city) is so much more difficult mentally, even if you are just trying it out for a year.
I really like Chicago as a place to possibly live, in the US. Seems many people have that smaller town mentality, but a big city attraction there.
My other choice would be Vancouver. Sure it is not in the US. But is different enough from the US, without getting that duck out of water feeling.
I just wanted to say that I totally get you on needing to get the west coast out of your system. I had a very similar situation after college. There are many places to work in my field in SoCal, but I wasn't sure I'd like living there. On the other hand, I felt like I had to try it out, instead of just making a judgement having barely even been there (I grew up in Michigan and went to college on the east coast).
In my case, I took a Master's Degree at USC. I lived in Playa del Rey (right up the road from LAX) for 9 months. I strongly disliked it, would never want to live there on a permanent basis. But I met some awesome people, had some great experiences, learned a lot about myself. In hindsight, I wouldn't make a different choice.
Oh and by the way, I was 22-23 years old.
So I say do it. Now's the time. I get it. I think you'll be glad you did, even if it's not your forever home. And not that you lack for people to chat with about this, but if you want someone to talk to, shoot me an email.
By the way, I also say that if you love mountains so much, you should come visit us here in the Denver front range. You are welcome any time.
North Carolina. Star Alliance hub, mountains, change enough from Florida, and hip vibe. 🙂
Ben -
Move to LA. Sign a 6 month lease.
If you determine it does not suit you, you can move to SD after your lease expires.
My case: Born in NYC, grew up in the suburbs, high school further suburbs. Great time. College in Boston. Graduate at 23.
My thinking at that point: I don't know where I want to go, but I need to go somewhere.
A college friend gets transferred to San Diego, moves in to a place and has an extra room.
That was all I needed. Wrapped up business in Boston, put all my belongings in my car, and headed west.
I also thought: What the heck, if I don't like it I can always go back.
But I loved, and still love, living in California. No offense to the other 49, but this is the best state in our nation. (for me!)
10 Years in San Diego, and then circumstances brought me to the Bay Area, which I now believe is the best place in the best state in our great Union.
Coming from Tampa, stay south and warm. From what I can tell from reading you, LA might be a little more your style. So start there.
But, if it isn't, you'll have learned more about CA and which other cities might be more appealing to you.
Bottom line: Go for it. I don't think you'll regret it.
Go for Seattle with a backup choice of San Diego if you decide you hate the weather here.
I moved here 4 years ago from Ohio and love it. I'd recommend living close to downtown and just enjoy everything the city has to offer. Yes it gets dreary and overcast in the winter, but it's not as bad as everyone says, we just have to keep saying it or more Californians will move here and drive up the real estate prices. Bonus no state income tax, though the sales tax sucks you can write it off as you would state income tax.
Interesting, I've lived in California my whole life and feel that I still need to get the east coast "out of my system". So I totally know where you're coming from.
One thing I would say that I haven't really seen said here yet is that you could almost think of California as it's own country, rather than just another state in the USA. It's so diverse because it's a hub to so many places and is adjacent and/or close to many countries that have vastly different cultures. I mean, you probably don't need it with all of your crazy travels and all, but it's a great place to meet different types of people, create new experiences, and open your mind without having to leave all of the comforts of the States. 🙂
I will also say that being a California native, you don't really hear many stories of people moving here and *NOT* liking it... we kind of just have it too good here. Beaches, weather, good food, pretty girls.. the list goes on. 🙂
I think the only choices here are San Diego, Orange County, Los Angeles, or Santa Barbara. Maybe San Luis Obispo.
Who wants to live in northern CA? 😛
L.A. is beautiful? This is news to me. I've lived in Moscow, Tokyo, New Orleans, Washington, D.C. and L.A., and L.A. has been the most unattractive and intellectually atrophied place I have ever had the misfortune of living. Fine for a visit but one can do much better for living.
I recommend making a decision matrix and applying weights to the different variables which are important in making your decision. Then at the end of it, based on the results, if you're happy with the top choice, go with it.
However, if you were wishing it was a different one or start adjusting the weights to make the answer a different one, I think you'll know your answer that way as well.
Good luck and for just 1 yr, you can't go wrong.
If I were you, I'd move to Dubai. I've always wanted to live there, and not only because I love EK! It's a great city, and I want to live there sometime in my life.
San Diego is your kind of place. Not too big or expensive, so it wont be a shock on your wallet or your driving skills. Enough culture to stimulate you. Near the ocean, the desert, and a bigger city , LA. The best thing is the cleanliness , the weather and the people. It is a healthy city to live in, which from your recent posts seems to be important to you. :). It will help balance out your sitting in airplanes so much of the time and eating all that food and diet coke! 😉 If you choose SD, contact me, as a designer I'll help you set up your pad.
Come to the Silicon Valley. You already work in tech and spend much of your time promoting your digital self. Come to the place where this is happening all the time. Weather is exceptional year-round, you have SJC, OAK, and SFO at your disposal. Palo Alto is paradise on Earth.
Lucky- I've been there done that so to speak. There are some great beach communities that you will love in LA and SD. Hermosa Beach in LA is awesome. Manhattan is beautiful as well, but too expensive. Pacific Beach in SD is terrific as well. You are at the perfect age for those spots. I can give you more tips if you want to plan a trip to check them out.
I'm interested as well in why you decided to cross Portland off the list? I'm also 22 and have been living in the SW Washington area (Vancouver,Wa) since I was a kid. I haven't travelled extensively around the Left Coast or anything but I do think Portland would be a great location for a couple reasons. Obviously there are a bunch of people our age here and there are a ton of things to do no matter what your other interests might be but beside that what I've also come to find as a geography student (and travel enthusiast) is that Portland is situated in a great location on the map for traveling purposes. Sure PDX isn't a major airport but it does have 1) nonstop flight to most major airports 2) reasonable fares most of the time 3) and most important... if there are better fares somewhere else on the west coast you wish you could have acted on, you can, because for only 9000 avios RT you could fly to YVR,SEA, and SFO and for 15000 avios SAN,LAX,LAS, or PHX on AS. Finally, most people think it's always gray outside for 8 months of the year but it's not. More then half the time there are periods of sunshine because the clouds are always moving since Portland's situated along a gorge which a breeze blows through all year. I guess all I can really say is you wouldn't know unless you tried living here for a year. lol.
Baz Luhrman once said "Live in Southern California, but leave before it makes you soft.."
He also said -- Wear Sunscreen! (perhaps an SPF 50 to avoid the Lobster look?)
Ben,
Here's a consideration and then a suggestion.
FL = zero state income tax
CA = up to 9% state income tax
Someone else suggested using your parents' address as home and just wandering. Why not use your parents' address, at least at first, and take a short term lease on the west coast? If you decide that you don't like CA and leave earlier than a year you will have saved X months of rent and substantial income tax.
I have not read all of the comments on both posts about your move so this may be redundant. Why not Vegas? Reasons to consider:
Lots of flight; lots of connections through the west coast to get that "500 mile minimum" extra.
Spectacular natural beauty including mountains (Sierras or 12,000 foot Mount Charleston which is just a few miles away), desert including Death Valley, even the Grand Canyon very accessible.
Very affordable housing right now... you could probably rent an equivalent place in Vegas for 1/2 or less what it would cost in SFO or L.A.
Talk about vibe!?!
NV state income tax = zero
West coast an hour away or less via McCarran
If you want to drive anywhere you can be outside of Vegas in 20 minutes or less. If you want to drive out of the L.A. basin figure a minimum of two hours to get out from anywhere near the coast where the airports are.
In fact my sister lives in Westminster, CA in the LA area. Looking at a map you would think LAX would be a reasonably quick drive, maybe 30 to 40 minutes on I405. Not a chance. If she goes to LAX at very off peak times of the day she figures an hour. During most of the daylight hours she has to plan for 1 1/2 to 2+ hours to drive the 35+ miles.
So wherever you move to consider the time it will take to reach an airport. Since you do that many times a year and don't particularly like to arrive early you ought to make that a factor in your decision.
Hope this helps.
Jack
I'll just modify what I said in the previous thread. The Bay Area is the best part of this country. Full stop. And though it's not their hub, AA just moved themselves into the finest terminal in the country at SFO.
Disclosure: I grew up on the west side of Los Angeles County, mostly in Redondo Beach. The person advocating SBA is misleading you; flights in and out are expensive.
I say take advantage of your parents and DRASTICALLY cut your living expenses (rent, utilities, no state income tax, food, etc.)
Move back with them, they would love to have you! You fly around and travel so much anyway why pay rent and all the additional expenses this entails????
Instead, SAVE your money and get into a mega investing plan. You have so much money rolling in from the cc aff app links, open yourself an Individual 401k Plan and fund it to the max for several years now that you are so young! Keep adding to your savings and investments as much as possible. Do that for several years, live in hotels or extended stay apts in places you like to check out and keep doing so until one FEELS like home.
You could be set by age 30. Or be well on your way by age 25 at least.
Maybe I should forget about my own blog and start helping you all travel bloggers with your personal finances...But you guys are so cheap you will never pay my fees, lol.
Good luck on what you decide. I think I have the best idea by far. If you sit down and calculate how much you can save EVERY month doing it my way & what this can do for setting you up for a fantastic foundation for the long term...you will stop fantasizing blowing so much money living elsewhere. If you need a date, just get a hotel suite somewhere & say you live there, lol.
I thought your Santiago W review was RIGHT on. I complained and got back 10k of the 20k for my two nights. Makes me a feel a little better.
Take care,
George
I never realized how many people apparently let state income taxes dictate where they live.
I currently live in Kansas and will be making the move to LA in about a month. Im really excited, but every time I think about it I get really nervous! I have been in KS too long and I also need a change of venue and want to get the west coast out of my system. So here's to moving to the west coast.
I might be looking for a roommate to keep costs down! hit me up if you want more details.
Hmmm... I say why move? FL has really great ticket prices, and the rent is not too bad!! You don't have to worry about much, plus if you ever want to go to LA, go and rent and apartment for a month, while keeping your stuff in TPA. In fact, that's what I'd recommend. Keep your home and your stuff in TPA and rent nice places around the world as temporary bases.
When you get tired of it, go home!!
Nope, state income tax does not dictate where I live.
I lived in Hawaii for 12 years because of the climate, in spite of HI's 8 1/2 % state income tax rate. Taxes were not the reason I left either.
But to not consider them as a factor when they approach 10% is not prudent in my opinion. Look at it this way. If I make $100,000 per year and live in CA I'll be paying $6,000 to $9,000 to CA depending on my personal details. In NV for example my state tax would be zero.
I think that at least considering spending $6,000 to $9,000 on my travel instead of what folks in Sacramento or wherever think is appropriate is simply prudent. For $6,000 I can take one or more truly fantastic trips. Why would I not consider it?
I made the move from Toronto to Seattle 8 years ago and have never regretted it. It is truly a beautiful part of the country since you are surrounded by mountains, lakes and trees everywhere.
If you want to know more about Seattle, I'm happy to chat.
If you're going to live west then you're likely thinking about SF or LA, right? LA takes a really long time to get used to and it's a TON of driving around, so you have to consider that. Seattle also seems nice.
End of the day, though, New York city (even with the cold, the taxes, and the insanity) is the most fun place on earth anyone could choose to live!!
I live in London, but would love to move to South Florida or Arizona if I had an American visa / green card.
In your case, I'd vote for Arizona. It's west (albeit minus the coast), the Sonoran desert landscape (including mountains!) is gorgeous and unique in the whole world. Although I prefer Tucson to Phoenix (prettier, not quite as hot, more progressive), the Valley of the Sun is probably more convenient for travel, thanks to Sky Harbor.
So there you have it! Now, where should I move... and when will America let me, a perfectly normal European citizen, move in? :o)
Taxes aren't usually a factor in where to move but when you consider that Lucky's income isn't going up, it has to be a factor. It's less money he has to spend on travel.
I would look at the cost if living index calculators and see how it works for you.
I've lived in NY, San Diego, and the Midwest.
People either love or hate LA. And I think the people who love it just want to suck more people into the suckiness that is LA.
I'd live in San Francisco if it wasn't so expensive.
I've lived in San Diego the past 4 years and there's a reason it's called America's Finest City. But it's not as exciting or culturally or culinarily stimulating as many other cities though. I miss NYC for those reasons. Great place for young people. And if you are single, there are a lot of young, attractive, fit people here.
Don't listen to the people who say the weather in Seattle doesn't suck. It does.
In response to Jason H and also Lucky with regards to the USVI...Lucky hit it right on the head, it's expensive. You're looking at $100 minimum RT to SJU and that only nets you 1000 miles if you're an elite and a paltry 396 if you're not, then to get someplace in States you're looking at MIA which hovers about $400 RT in Y though on the plus side upgrades almost always clear out of STX and since we have no catering you don't have to worry about over eating on the plane!
Don't get me wrong, it's incredible and we love it here...it's just not a good home base for travel!
The one other piece of advice I'd give you is to move someplace where you can afford to be "in the mix" - downtown-ish or in a unique community.
After all, what's the point of moving to LA or SFO if you're just going to live in some random suburb that could be Anywhere, USA?
In that regard, Seattle and even moreso Portland rate highly. I don't know what your budget is, but finding your own apartment in a central neighborhood in SF or LA would be very expensive.
I saw your doppelganger on the bus this afternoon, so maybe *don't* move to Seattle - there isn't room for two of you in this town!
I kid, I kid. Move to Seattle. We'll be glad to have you, even if we don't act like it.
One of the reasons I love to read your blog is that you are a thinker and a planner. Therefore I have an idea. Since you are getting some pretty well-rounded advice on here, why not take it a step further and drill deep with this terrific network of readers that you have built up? Here is what I mean:
Whittle down your cities to the top 5 or so... a manageable number. It sounds like you are leaning toward the west coast but just in case maybe you should throw one or two non-west coast cities in there as a wild card.
Then ask your readers (we are a loyal bunch who want to help) to arrange a day for you in each of those five cities to try and pitch you on their city.
The one caveat that I would ask, is that if you use this idea, please let my city be one of them!
I live in a city with the busiest airport in the world, the largest airline hub, with dirt cheap, non-stop flights to all over the world (that should immediately give away which city I'm in). We are an Olympic host city, with tons and tons of young people (right out of college and still in college). Your dollar goes a long way here (you could easily purchase or rent a condo in a sweet high-rise), and the Appalachian Trail starts about 80 miles north of here (so we have some mountains for you).
We also have four distinct seasons here (unlike Florida).
I love the west coast too and frequently travel there from here. We have dozens of non-stop flights leaving all day long to all sorts of west coast cities for very cheap prices.
As a East Coast transplant to Seattle, I'd would suggest you exercise some caution before coming here. The qualities that make this city nice - the people, the mountains, the weather - can be found in Portland, OR as well as Vancouver. For better or worse, the "Seattle Freeze" is a real phenomenon and consequently it's difficult to build a social network here. I'd say go for Portland, SF or Vancouver.
Hello Ben - I live in Santa Clara, CA (40 min from SF). Weather here is great. The reason why I stay here, it is close enough to Yosemite (about 4 hours), so that I can visit multiple times a year. Good luck with your choice!
OK, one last suggestion wa-a-y-y-y outside of the box but very doable.
Berchtesgaden
Why not live for three to six months in one of your two favorite places on earth?
You'd be in Berchtesgaden on all of your days at "home". With all of it's charm and all those wonderful food and drink shops waiting just a block or two away in any direction.
You could use your parents' address as home.
You can rent a one-bedroom apartment there (Ferienwohnung as you know) for Euro 1200 per month for a negotiated 90 day or more rental.
You could fly in and out of Munich as quickly as you will be able to reach LAX or SFO from many places that you might live. SLZ is very, very close too even if it has far fewer choices than Munich.
You'd be in Berchtesgaden.
If for some wild reason Berchtesgaden ever gets old then drive twenty minutes to Salzburg; an hour to Innsbruck; forty-five minutes to the Chiemsee, Mondsee, St. Wolfgand See; an hour and a half to the Grossglockner; two hours to the Sud Tirol in Italy, etc., etc., etc.
Think of all of the airlines that you can try that don't ever fly to the U.S.
Did I mention that you would be in Berchtesgaden?
hey ben,
i've lived all over the usa [i'm old]. Cant beat the East SF Bay, laddie!
SF is damn cold. it would kill you after Tampa! And it's a BIG CITY not the intimate place that it was 30 yrs ago. The East Bay has whatever you want: many microclimates; many multicultural areas; funky Beserkeley; staid Peidmont [not for you!]; blue collar, low cost san leandro; etc, etc.
but for you why not Walnut Creek- a real sleeper. a satellite city. not too big. not too expensive. on BART, so you can do SF whenever you want conveniently. But the best part: it has a terrific singles scene with many foxy hip young women employed in WC's many white collar firms. cost of living not anywhere close to SF. warm climate. close to the sierra nevada [hell, learn to snowboard!]. And it's on its way to becoming quite multicultural- the hallmark of the bay area. "cmon over"!!!
Sacramento area or Davis, CA. Great airport. Close enough to SFO as a second home airport (amtrack and BART).
Tahoe is 90 min away, SF is 90 min away.
Flying out of the new terminal at SMF is a joy. Cheaper than the Bay area with less traffic.
I live in Seattle but lived in MD for 20 yrs and miss it. You can live in west central MD and be within 50 mins from IAD, DCA, and BWI and be in some beautiful country with cheap living. With all of those MR opportunities.... Check into it...