Air China’s inflight magazine, Wings of China, has a long feature on visiting London in the current issue, which talks all about what you should do during your visit to the city.
While the story is thousands and thousands of words long, there are a couple of sentences in particular that are drawing the most attention. Specifically, the part about safety:
“London is generally a safe place to travel, however precautions are needed when entering areas mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people. We advise tourists not to go out alone at night, and females always to be accompanied by another person when traveling.”
Oops! I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the ethnic part is the worst, but suggesting that females should always be accompanied by another person when traveling isn’t exactly sound advice either.
I can’t decide whether this is better or worse than when Korean Air launched flights to Nairobi, inviting people to experience “the indigenous people full of primitive energy.”
(Tip of the hat to CNBC)
SpaceX's Falcon 9 heeded the same advice posted by the Wings of China and decided not to risk itself by even lifting off....
@News by safely you meant explosively, right? ;)
@News - lol
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/sep/08/rocket-failures-get-autumn-off-bad-start-facebook-satellite-spacewatch
Seems the same happened to SpaceX
In related news Long March 4C launch vehicle carrying Gaofen-10 satellite took Wings of China recommendation seriously and decided not to enter orbit because there were Indian satellites. It went down safely back in China.
@Ken Miller Haha, my country.
I am sorry, but who cares? Does anyone actually want to fly on Air China except for Chinese citizens? Frankly, Air China should utilize their in-flight magazines to teach basic and courteous English phrases to their customers to help their customers during their travels abroad. That would be a much better use of the literature. Once people find out that you are a tourist, you are basically a target for scams and theft pretty much anywhere in the world.
@S - or with people who can write coherently in English for that matter...
This is one of the few occasions I feel proud of country. It has not been polluted by PC shits.
London is a thriving cosmopolitan. It can be dangerous anywhere, including the tourist spots. Can't deal with it? Don't come!
@Nick Sydney 2 - mate, the same can be said for literally anyone in London. We are all opinionated and racist bastards in London. Just depends on your perspective. If there was one. I'm sure we'd win the competition on racism.
Coming from a Londoner - born and bred. Oh, ditch that stupid Air...
London is a thriving cosmopolitan. It can be dangerous anywhere, including the tourist spots. Can't deal with it? Don't come!
@Nick Sydney 2 - mate, the same can be said for literally anyone in London. We are all opinionated and racist bastards in London. Just depends on your perspective. If there was one. I'm sure we'd win the competition on racism.
Coming from a Londoner - born and bred. Oh, ditch that stupid Air China advice. Surely to get you killed. Just ask the black cab drivers - they know best.
Everything within the circle line of the London Underground is fabulous. Leave the confines of this and it can go downhill quickly in parts. This is spoken by one who called London home for 30+ years. Like all cities London has its great, good and downright ugly. The worst racism I have ever seen is in fact at the hands of my fellow Indians. Ask an Indian about thier views towards Africans, Chinese, Pakistanis. It...
Everything within the circle line of the London Underground is fabulous. Leave the confines of this and it can go downhill quickly in parts. This is spoken by one who called London home for 30+ years. Like all cities London has its great, good and downright ugly. The worst racism I have ever seen is in fact at the hands of my fellow Indians. Ask an Indian about thier views towards Africans, Chinese, Pakistanis. It will be appalling. This is a travel blog mostly about flying. Best to leave it at that.
@Genova
Tell that to the low income populations living in the West - especially the US in my case since I'm from the US. The illusion of upward mobility is a powerful force, but ultimately still an illusion. In fact, this is at the center of recent political upheavals and rhetoric in the West. Also, upward (and downward) mobility is not limited in the traditional Indian caste system, but difficult as you have rightly stated....
@Genova
Tell that to the low income populations living in the West - especially the US in my case since I'm from the US. The illusion of upward mobility is a powerful force, but ultimately still an illusion. In fact, this is at the center of recent political upheavals and rhetoric in the West. Also, upward (and downward) mobility is not limited in the traditional Indian caste system, but difficult as you have rightly stated. Unfortunately, moving up in the social status in the West has largely peaked since the eighties as well.
The difference is, the caste system in the US and Europe allows for more upward freedom and mobility, with the chance to rise up, while the caste system in India does not.
Wow... References to the caste system! Just shows how poor and debilitating the western education systems are. Widen your intellectual capabilities. We all belong to a caste system... It's called the segregation of labor or specialization. A nicer name but ultimately has the same unconscious effect. Easy to ignore that fact when one is towards the upper half of our caste system. Incidentally, the South Asians belong to the upper classes in our PC caste...
Wow... References to the caste system! Just shows how poor and debilitating the western education systems are. Widen your intellectual capabilities. We all belong to a caste system... It's called the segregation of labor or specialization. A nicer name but ultimately has the same unconscious effect. Easy to ignore that fact when one is towards the upper half of our caste system. Incidentally, the South Asians belong to the upper classes in our PC caste system strata in the US (aka doctors, biz whizzes, academics, technology experts, etc). http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/30/5-facts-about-indian-americans/
The caste system does not correlate to wealth in the Indian tradition. It was developed as a stringent division of labor which had been misconstrued over centuries.
@Lucky - sorry mate. I'm very disappointed with the garbage on your blog these days. It's better not to post an article in comparison to this tabloid type article - especially one that has been plucked from elsewhere. Crime is everywhere and there are dangerous neighborhoods in all cities. We all know that. It's not a matter of race, but economic inequality and social injustice. Hopefully you have learned that from your extensive travels.
@Alvin: I'd love to see your Hong Kong (not in China) passport.
My, my... a lot has changed since the "DOGS AND CHINESE NOT ALLOWED" days...:)
Let us save some of this PC impulse. From petty crimes to organized Jihadi stuff, some of that is sound advice. I am sorry that Indian neighborhoods had to be included, but they too are not immune from Jihadi infiltration. :)
@Malc: I think Lucky could have it both ways if he wanted to: continue to post inflammatory material and allow people to comment as they will, but also interject to make clear that he doesn't condone bigotry. I haven't read this blog for too long, so perhaps Lucky has done just that and I haven't seen it. But if he hasn't, then I would find that even more troubling than the cynical focus on monetization you described.
Sorry, "upper castes", before the spelling police jump in...
"and you only have to look to your own society to find it deeply entrenched and buried below the surface"
Except upward mobility and the chance to escape the caste system exists...
"Remind me of caste the next time y’all are in first class laughing at the lower caste plebs at the back of the plane"
Except this whole site is based on allowing people who AREN'T part of the elite or "upper casts" find...
"and you only have to look to your own society to find it deeply entrenched and buried below the surface"
Except upward mobility and the chance to escape the caste system exists...
"Remind me of caste the next time y’all are in first class laughing at the lower caste plebs at the back of the plane"
Except this whole site is based on allowing people who AREN'T part of the elite or "upper casts" find ways to get into premium cabins and loungers...dang, that idea just pole vaulted over your head. Then again, when you are that focused on so much righteous hypocrisy, it is understandable.
"Sayonara!"
Aloha! For real this time, or will be like the time you said "Good Riddance" but still came back?
@ Loz Except for your comment about Pakistanis, I'm loving your comments – about pretty well everything else. But in particular the way Lucky lets bigots and trolls get away with their rhetoric. I always find lots of interesting comments on the blog, but I have to wade through so many really offensive ones that any other website would moderate off ... It's clear that the more controversial the comments, the higher the readership, so...
@ Loz Except for your comment about Pakistanis, I'm loving your comments – about pretty well everything else. But in particular the way Lucky lets bigots and trolls get away with their rhetoric. I always find lots of interesting comments on the blog, but I have to wade through so many really offensive ones that any other website would moderate off ... It's clear that the more controversial the comments, the higher the readership, so it becomes a cynical money-making exercise instead of serving a community, which it purports to be about. There's something morally offensive about that.
The statement within itsself is definitely a racist one as you can be killed, robbed and/or murdered anywhere in the world. Although I am not from London, it is still clear to see that it points out the any people of color other than white will do these things to you. I wonder how it would have read about Christopher Columbus and the colonist? Did they not do these things on a much wider scale....
The statement within itsself is definitely a racist one as you can be killed, robbed and/or murdered anywhere in the world. Although I am not from London, it is still clear to see that it points out the any people of color other than white will do these things to you. I wonder how it would have read about Christopher Columbus and the colonist? Did they not do these things on a much wider scale. Now someone of course will point out that, that was then and this is now. Granted...but what would you think would happen to a Chinese tourist that wandered into redneck town USA? The tourist would definitely get a free neck stretching! To say that any given race is more prone to violence it within itself a racist fact. Furthermore, the people of let's say the Carribbean are predominately black and Indian defendants so should they avoid all countries in the Carribbean and miss out on a beautiful vacation??? However, common sense (which really isn't too common actually), prevails and rules as such....be aware of your surroundings at all times or you can easily become a statistic. And remember after all, some of the most beautiful experiences one has on vacation/holiday happen in culturally diversified areas. What would a trip to New York City be without a trip to Harlem and experiencing the Apollo Theater or Sylvia's restaurant?!?!? And in contrast...no one would ever visit the Philippines if the statement read don't go there because all Filipinos will rob, extort, rape or murdered you and the officers at the airport always put bullets in the bags of tourist and force them to pay a bribe! Is that statement true? Yes, but no...yes there are incidents of bullets being placed in bags, but does that mean all Filipino officers are untrustworthy? Does it mean that you will be robbed, raped or murdered when you get there?!?!? Or is it better to issue a more suitable warning...simply be aware of your surrounding no matter where you go.
@psyched
Show me some numbers, kiddo
@Ben L
Drop the white man guilt. U know it's true. Deal with it.
Sounds about right... I wonder what they say about other destinations that they serve...
@dave - "You’ve easily surpassed Credit as the biggest jackass on the blog!"
Only until DCS comes back. :D
Congratulations Loz. You've easily surpassed Credit as the biggest jackass on the blog!
I really, really love the comments section. Oftentimes they're far more entertaining than the post itself.
I am a Londoner from a South Asian background. Firstly, I think many commenters who responded to agree with the Air China comment are doing so NOT because they know anything about London, it's neighbourhoods, it's demographics or it's crime rates. In fact, I would guess that many of these people have never been to London and have no interest in this story, except for one reason. That is, it allows them an outlet for...
I am a Londoner from a South Asian background. Firstly, I think many commenters who responded to agree with the Air China comment are doing so NOT because they know anything about London, it's neighbourhoods, it's demographics or it's crime rates. In fact, I would guess that many of these people have never been to London and have no interest in this story, except for one reason. That is, it allows them an outlet for railing against political correctness, espouse lazy racist stereotypes, and generally troll a view of the world as they would wish it to be, but realising that this world is rapidly disappearing.
Secondly, it is also amusing to me how some of the commenters have made this into a China vesus India thing. Please do not get terminology wrong, as it has nothing to do with India. This Air China article is slander Black Britons and British South Asians, of which I am a member. Perhaps the article should also have mentioned that the Mayor of London is a member of this community, and indeed the most popularly elected government official in the United Kingdom, instead of just stating negative comments.
Finally, while this article and its message is crude and misleading, I do hope it has one positive effect. I would venture that the people who read it and heed the advice written, are probably the same kind of people that cast the entire Chinese tourist community in a bad light internationally. If these people do not then come to our predominantly ethnic minority areas of London, and cause the same kind of problems as they have become famous for doing the world over, I for one would be happy. Got to love the irony!
"Oh look you have a caste system and slums oh boo you you have no credibility because of your caste system you silly fool" typed the White American on his phone as his Amtrak train zipped past the sprawling African American slums in the highly segregated and crumbling city of Detroit. Caste system enough for you?
'Caste' is a European word. It originated in Europe for a reason. Caste systems are everywhere, and you only...
"Oh look you have a caste system and slums oh boo you you have no credibility because of your caste system you silly fool" typed the White American on his phone as his Amtrak train zipped past the sprawling African American slums in the highly segregated and crumbling city of Detroit. Caste system enough for you?
'Caste' is a European word. It originated in Europe for a reason. Caste systems are everywhere, and you only have to look to your own society to find it deeply entrenched and buried below the surface. The only difference between our societies is that ours is unashamedly exposed to the world to see, and we're openly demonstrating resolve to rid ourselves of it – a very difficult task in a nation of 1.3 billion. You've only got like what, 1/4th of our population? What are YOU doing to end your caste system, whitey? Electing Donald Trump to build walls to segregate people? You are seriously one to talk!
It isn't uncommon to see Caucasoids throwing the caste card around in order to take the moral high pedestal... I mean, y'all literally gassed 6 million Jews because you considered them to be of a lower caste than your appropriated Aryan race (which is actually our word), and y'all wanna use caste as a bargaining chip when you have the worst caste system that has ever existed in human history!
Sayonara! Remind me of caste the next time y'all are in first class laughing at the lower caste plebs at the back of the plane – oh wait you do that all the time.
Yea Asians can be very racist. Also lucky your comments section has devolved Into a battleground. Perhaps this article is not that great to publish after all?
Has Lucky ever once asked people to refrain from making racist statements in his comments section? Not a rhetorical question--I'm really wondering. Such a request would surely be ignored, but the absence of the request would be troubling in its own right.
As Chinese, we can openly talk about people from different areas of China. The reason is that usually we don't consider it a big deal. However, it is so sensitive to talk about people from a different race. I am not sure what is the cause.
But when someone wants to judge about the racism thing in Chinese culture, please at least know that, unlike US or UK, we have very few people in...
As Chinese, we can openly talk about people from different areas of China. The reason is that usually we don't consider it a big deal. However, it is so sensitive to talk about people from a different race. I am not sure what is the cause.
But when someone wants to judge about the racism thing in Chinese culture, please at least know that, unlike US or UK, we have very few people in China from other races. Most of the information we know about other races are from western medium. So think about what's wrong about the medium instead.
Due to the minority of people from other races, Chinese travelers, who may be visiting abroad first time, just like other people, tend to accept things/places similar to what they are used to. To be honest, some of my friends who have been in US for a long while can still get scared by people on the street, standing there staring, who say "hi" loudly to them.
Mark F, it's all very well saying that the PC way to express the crime warning is "poor" neighborhoods, but the problem is that it isn't always possible to detect that a neighborhood is poor.
So sometimes a more "visible" cue is needed
Wow. Let me get some popcorn!!!
1. Loz-You lost all credibility when you said, "Seig Heil crowd". This equates not with free speech but a real genocide much like that in Cambodia and in Africa. So, anything you have said after that is tainted as you clearly are as insensitive as anyone who you are criticizing.
2. Ben (Lucky)-Way to stir the pot and create activity. Donald Trump would be envious.
I appreciate...
Wow. Let me get some popcorn!!!
1. Loz-You lost all credibility when you said, "Seig Heil crowd". This equates not with free speech but a real genocide much like that in Cambodia and in Africa. So, anything you have said after that is tainted as you clearly are as insensitive as anyone who you are criticizing.
2. Ben (Lucky)-Way to stir the pot and create activity. Donald Trump would be envious.
I appreciate that you are willing to share so much of your life with this blog.
To connect with people and gain real traction as a blogger, it is said, you have to really be willing to open up. I applaud you bringing up controversial items and that you call 'em like you see 'em.
A society of free expression is the only one that ultimately can save the human race.
Everybody else, grow up and travel the world, for it is there that you gain the perspective to persevere, improve your situation and gain context for your own existence.
If along the way you make the world a better place, then you get it.
@ Credit-I was enjoying all the back and forth craziness but could not resist commenting after your post. From an Old White Guy-let the crucifixion begin!
So in London they're black, not African-British? I have so much trouble trying to keep the PC labels straight.
@Loz: "There is a fine line between being blunt and treating your fellow human beings like they’re subhumans." Fine words from someone steeped in a caste system that has created some of the poorest slums in the world. You should really look internally at your own culture and history as much as you love to judge everyone else.
@Ben L of course Westminster has high crime as its a nightlife and shopping area!
Ben L. you probably fit into this as you seem too PC for your own good:
What is the definition of a Conservative? A Liberal who hasn't been mugged!
Also simply look through the Evening Standard and look at the skin tones of the criminals...
The only smart people on this post are the ones that are not commenting.
Damn........
Just curious being an Indian in the US, we are not known for being bad people or being a threat to anyone here except maybe the American Jobs. What is so scary in the Indian neighborhoods in UK literally?
It's so true, no more political correctness, people need trues. That's all.
I avoid Chinese neighborhoods because I don't like the fact that they put pee-pee in your Coke!
At least we can agree that black neighborhoods aren't safe at night.
Chinese are openly racist and they are proud about it. As long as they allow adoption of Chinese babies we are a okay with Chinese treating others badly. We can look the other way.
@Loz - "I can’t wait for the day Emirates or Qatar post an offensive advisory telling their Muslim citizens to refrain from visiting areas with ‘dangerous Caucasoids’ so that all the self-righteous white men on this blog can get a taste of their own medicine and understand why such language is never acceptable."
Given the sentiment of a significant portion of the US public towards people from the UAE or Qatar, I don't think that...
@Loz - "I can’t wait for the day Emirates or Qatar post an offensive advisory telling their Muslim citizens to refrain from visiting areas with ‘dangerous Caucasoids’ so that all the self-righteous white men on this blog can get a taste of their own medicine and understand why such language is never acceptable."
Given the sentiment of a significant portion of the US public towards people from the UAE or Qatar, I don't think that many people in the US would be terribly upset if they did.
Being open minded also includes accepting those that may be close minded. China is not as a diverse country as the US, its definition of 'race' is more minute (i.e. Han or Manchu, etc). And so that influences the idea of PC.
"I can’t wait for the day Emirates or Qatar post an offensive advisory telling their Muslim citizens to refrain from visiting areas with ‘dangerous Caucasoids’ so that all the self-righteous white men on this blog can get a taste of their own medicine and understand why such language is never acceptable."
Nah, most white people wouldn't give a shit, since they're clearly nowhere near as insecure as you are, Loz.
"but you can’t expect...
"I can’t wait for the day Emirates or Qatar post an offensive advisory telling their Muslim citizens to refrain from visiting areas with ‘dangerous Caucasoids’ so that all the self-righteous white men on this blog can get a taste of their own medicine and understand why such language is never acceptable."
Nah, most white people wouldn't give a shit, since they're clearly nowhere near as insecure as you are, Loz.
"but you can’t expect an immoral society to understand what respect is"
You're right. Let's have a caste system instead, nothing says morality like that does.
"Good riddance"
Finger crossed that you mean it this time and won't be back to this site anymore...
No one in the comments section has bothered questioning Ben Schlappig's motives. There is no other travel blog out there (like TPG) or on BoardingArea with so much warring and controversy in the comments section - it's just OMAAT that is rife with this stuff. It has lead me to think that he purposely posts scandalous clickbait and then sits back to enjoy the controversy that follows because it expands his readership and boosts the...
No one in the comments section has bothered questioning Ben Schlappig's motives. There is no other travel blog out there (like TPG) or on BoardingArea with so much warring and controversy in the comments section - it's just OMAAT that is rife with this stuff. It has lead me to think that he purposely posts scandalous clickbait and then sits back to enjoy the controversy that follows because it expands his readership and boosts the traffic to his blog, thus getting him the $$$ that he loves. He knows that half of his readership consists of the "angry white men" demographic that have a deep revulsion of anyone who isn't a white male, and he is therefore adept at the art of providing suitable punching bags for them in the form of blog posts. He only ever intervenes when people make personal attacks against him, but someone might as well fling the N word around in here and he'd just sit back and rake in the big bucks.
OMAAT was once all about miles and travelling smart. It has descended into Daily Mail-style clickbait filler articles that are meaningless and serve no purpose but to stir up controversy. This blog has been cheapened. It is the absolute height of irony that a travel blog has some of the most bigoted readership out there, but that was bound to happen when your version of 'travel' involves staying in five star and six star hotels for a day and then jetting off to the next country, as opposed to actually travelling and expanding your horizons. I can't wait for the day Emirates or Qatar post an offensive advisory telling their Muslim citizens to refrain from visiting areas with 'dangerous Caucasoids' so that all the self-righteous white men on this blog can get a taste of their own medicine and understand why such language is never acceptable. There is a fine line between being blunt and treating your fellow human beings like they're subhumans, but you can't expect an immoral society to understand what respect is. Good riddance.
Whoa...relax mates, get a cuppa.
@AK - no i meant that in general you wouldn't be accused of racism for criticising your own ethnic group; in case there is any doubt, I don't condone the clear racism in the article. Just pointing out that most Chinese people would not disagree with the article's assumptions about black, Indian and Pakistani neighbourhoods.
@psyched
Where's the truth in Air China's travel advice?
I heard Air China is implementing a fuel surcharge for traveling to those neighborhoods. Any word on when this will take effect?
White people and the light offence they take at almost everything *insert roll eyes here*
Where's the lie there though @ Air China's travel advice?
I get that one should avoid Indian neighborhoods in London, although that is so self-evident, no need to point it out in an inflight magazine. But predominantly Black or Pakistani neighborhoods are perfectly safe. Nice, friendly, hardworking people, good contrast to those Indians.
"they are behind Indians anyways, Indians have 3 times more population in UK than Chinese"
Which...doesn't really support your argument, and was rather pointless. It just comes off as you trying to say "Indian British people better than Chinese-British people!"
-Tabea
" (And i can get away with saying that, being ethnically Chinese – but not from China and not Chinese-speaking myself.)"
This implies Chinese views have any sort of credibility?
To be fair, the airline is only reflecting back the the beliefs and attitudes of many of its customers. Most Chinese do sincerely and genuinely believe that the darker the skin, the less worthy a person. (And i can get away with saying that, being ethnically Chinese - but not from China and not Chinese-speaking myself.) Kind of ironic given that as a group, the worst-behaved must be the mainland China tourists. They are also...
To be fair, the airline is only reflecting back the the beliefs and attitudes of many of its customers. Most Chinese do sincerely and genuinely believe that the darker the skin, the less worthy a person. (And i can get away with saying that, being ethnically Chinese - but not from China and not Chinese-speaking myself.) Kind of ironic given that as a group, the worst-behaved must be the mainland China tourists. They are also the most disliked tourists in most of Asia - even ( in fact especially ) in places with their own ethnic Chinese populations.
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not...
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
Blogs reflect the character of the people that run it.. I doubt you'd see such a click baiting post on TPG. Probably the VA discounts and AA business class seats posts were not ready.. How could this possibly be interesting to your readership?
Let's chime in as a Londoner.
I feel far more unsafe in Kilburn (Irish) than Southall (Indian) or even Whitechapel (Bangladeshi/Pakistani).
I look out for pickpockets and someone taking something from my car in the West End (International area, but I'm guessing these Chinese would call it a White area). I don't need to take such precautions in somewhere like Ealing (high proportion of Indians, Polish and Japanese). Places like Kingston are very...
Let's chime in as a Londoner.
I feel far more unsafe in Kilburn (Irish) than Southall (Indian) or even Whitechapel (Bangladeshi/Pakistani).
I look out for pickpockets and someone taking something from my car in the West End (International area, but I'm guessing these Chinese would call it a White area). I don't need to take such precautions in somewhere like Ealing (high proportion of Indians, Polish and Japanese). Places like Kingston are very safe and very white but I don't think this article is talking about such areas; they're pretty far from the city centre.
The problem as a tourist in London is that in the areas that seem the safest, there is a lot of petty crime, the feeling of safeness is only justified in that more serious crimes are less common but considering these areas are often the busiest, in this era terrorism becomes a concern in the said areas (West End, Kinghtsbridge, Westminster, City etc.)
The areas that have the most serious crime (Parts or East and South London) have perhaps very little pickpocketing going on. It's also quite unlikely that a tourist who's not involved in their local community will have anything happen to them. That's not to say they're not intimidating areas, or that I don't stay away from them, but the actual risk of anything actually happening to a tourist/someone not from that area is very very low. These can be considered Black or Pakistani areas. I don't know of any predominately Indian areas in the East or South.
Indian areas tend to be scattered around North (Neasden, Wembley, Finchley, Hampstead Garden Suburb) and West (Hounslow, Ealing, Southall, Harrow) London. West London is traditionally the most affluent part of London with areas like Chelsea, Kensington, Holland Park, Chiswick, Richmond, Weybridge, and Barnes. While Hounslow is never going to be Chelsea, there's a stark difference between Ealing in the west and say Brixton, Mile End or Kilburn in the South, East and North respectively. Indian areas can't be considered the same as the other two mentioned.
Even Black areas vary a lot. I went to Croydon once, there were a lot of Black people but I felt pretty safe. I wouldn't feel that safe in Harlesden.
Pakistanis don't really have their own areas. They live with Bangladeshis in the East and Indians in the west. Perhaps the only area which could be considered to be theirs is Tooting. Not the nicest of areas but again it's not Hackney (quite an International area).
In conclusion there's no logic to the Air China comment. Touristy areas are the most risky to tourists and most people due to petty crime and theft. Unless you're part of the gang in the East End or Brixton they're not really interested in me and you. As for everywhere in between, I can't say you're more likely to have a problem in an Indian area than any other.
Real crime and an area feeling intimidating are quite different.
Someon tried mugging me for my watch in St. John's Wood (affluent area). Nothing has ever happened to me when I worked in Aldgate (Banglaseshi area) for two years.
I know a lot of locals who have had their wallets taken in Selfridges. I've never heard of this happening in Richmond or Kingston.
Chance is a huge factor, also just because I don't like walking around Brixton or Kilburn doesn't mean I'm any safer in Mayfair! If they had to give advice for London it should be more along the lines of keep an eye on your possessions in busy areas and try and stay away from lonely areas. Race won't change anything when it comes to the crunch.
I don't get it...London has a large Pakistani,Indian and Black community... they would be fine...how is it unsafe for them?
And also females are perfectly fine to go out at night. Just ask my japanese FA friend who arrived at Heathrow,took the tube to North London and walked to her hotel after 9pm.
@Chris they are behind Indians anyways, Indians have 3 times more population in UK than Chinese
education & science says profiling, profiling & profiling... of statistics and evidence. why can't we use that on people's behavior and associate that with ethnic group? do we need to be polite and ask what they hate us?
Okay, sure, the magazine excerpt is racist. But is anyone going to be HARMED by following that advice?
So, as someone from Canada with massive Indian and Chinese populations, I never really associated either with danger/crime. There are a lot of negative stereotypes for both, but not crime.
Is it different in Britain?
For that matter, while there might be issues with Pakistani immigrant radicalization and such, never heard of them associated with petty crime either.
@Abhinav Agarwal
From your wikipedia link:
"Compared with most ethnic minorities in the UK, the Chinese are socioeconomically more widespread and decentralised, have a record of high academic achievement, and have one of the highest household incomes among demographic groups in the UK.[1]"
Kind of undermines your argument doesn't it?
No one in this comment section is going to convince anyone else of their viewpoint. This is the definition of futility.
Sage advice, certainly for Chinese nationals (or anyone) traveling to London - they could have added some other well known rough neighborhoods as well. They could have added a Paris warning whilst at it, where horrific crimes, mainly committed by migrant Muslims, have been targeted against Chinese, not just tourists but immigrants as well. In a world of creepy PC madness, thought control, censorship, adult-child behavior, micro aggressions, and other such nonsense foisted on gullible...
Sage advice, certainly for Chinese nationals (or anyone) traveling to London - they could have added some other well known rough neighborhoods as well. They could have added a Paris warning whilst at it, where horrific crimes, mainly committed by migrant Muslims, have been targeted against Chinese, not just tourists but immigrants as well. In a world of creepy PC madness, thought control, censorship, adult-child behavior, micro aggressions, and other such nonsense foisted on gullible people, it wouldn't surprise me if the self-annointed busy body commissars of commentary would scream 'racist' if a magazine warned against travel to Aleppo, Syria.
@Paolo
You still haven't posted any credible statistics that back up the point you're trying to make. Quit showing your ass and show us some numbers instead.
@alvin +1
@Scott - It is an uneducated person who makes statements such as yours about religion. Anyone who has taken even a basic philosophy course on religion (such as I did at UCLA), can tell you that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of God from logic. Also hard science, such as physics and math and chemistry, is about empirical data that can be tested repeatedly by different scientists. You cannot apply that...
@alvin +1
@Scott - It is an uneducated person who makes statements such as yours about religion. Anyone who has taken even a basic philosophy course on religion (such as I did at UCLA), can tell you that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of God from logic. Also hard science, such as physics and math and chemistry, is about empirical data that can be tested repeatedly by different scientists. You cannot apply that to the soft sciences such as history (where we depend on historians who are biased) and even courthouse law (where we depend on biased and fallible lawyers, judges, and jury), but it would be the height of insanity to distrust any and all history and to throw out any and all types of systems of justice because there are flaws.
Just as there are more accurate and less accurate historical books and records and it's our job to sift through the information (or trust reliable authorities) to find the truth or the closest thing to the truth, the same goes with religion. Anyone, and I've met many people like this, who say that the Bible and Christianity is fully made up and completely unreliable has no idea what they are talking about and is going in the face of archeological, historical, logical, and experiential data.
@Credit - I'm not sure if it's just the people you associate with or come across, but I know of many devout Christians that are graduates of UCLA, UC Berkeley, UPenn, Cornell, who take the Bible as the Word of God. Clearly this is not a science thing, as anyone who is willing to actually put in the time and energy to investigate would see.
@Scott and Credit - the Bible is clear that Joseph initially thought Mary was lying to him as well and wanted to break their engagement. And that even after an angel spoke to Joseph in a dream that the child was from God, the wider community did not believe it and used it against Jesus, basically calling him an illegitimate child. So the Bible is not unaware of natural or scientific causes.
What are you defending anyways? Atheism? What's the point in that? It doesn't help anyone.
If anyone is looking for more stats on Indians in UK go through the following links:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Indian
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html
http://m.economictimes.com/nri/nris-in-news/indian-origin-professionals-most-successful-in-uk-study/articleshow/47317877.cms
And finally why is it wiser to avoid British Chinese instead: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chinese
If anyone is looking for more stats on Indians in UK go through the following links:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Indian
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html
http://m.economictimes.com/nri/nris-in-news/indian-origin-professionals-most-successful-in-uk-study/articleshow/47317877.cms
And finally why is it wiser to avoid British Chinese instead: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chinese
the amount of racism in this comment section is surreal...
@BenL
Wake up: it is the number of reported crimes by area. For example, between 9.00am-9.00pm there could be, for argument's sake 5 million people in Westminster, 200,000 in Lambeth. You can work out how and why that's relevant.
Similar results would show for NYC, Paris, Sydney: inner city, millions of people skew the total crime numbers but say nothing about the likelihood of being a victim. It's pretty simple stuff.
@Loz Loooool You don't even know what tribe I am from, but that's ok, keep making generalizations about others without knowing the full story, keep making hypocritically racist and bigoted comments, it only makes you look like the fool you are. And the "You started it, so therefore I can act that way too and should be allowed to get away with it!" is such a weak sauce argument.
"Only the highly skilled Indian professionals...
@Loz Loooool You don't even know what tribe I am from, but that's ok, keep making generalizations about others without knowing the full story, keep making hypocritically racist and bigoted comments, it only makes you look like the fool you are. And the "You started it, so therefore I can act that way too and should be allowed to get away with it!" is such a weak sauce argument.
"Only the highly skilled Indian professionals go there"
No, that isn't true. Indians are like every other ethnic group you find in the UK, they encompass different socioeconomic and educational levels, from the highest paid white collar CEOs to the lower end taxi drivers and everything in between.
@Loz, XLY was spot on, don't get your panties in a bunch.
@Paolo
From the website:
"What do the different types of crime numbers mean?
When looking at larger areas of London, for example at a borough level, the specific crime rate is shown as a rate of that crime per 1,000 head of population during the specific reporting period. Where possible, the actual crime numbers are shown so that a user can see how many crimes of that type have been recorded in the area of...
@Paolo
From the website:
"What do the different types of crime numbers mean?
When looking at larger areas of London, for example at a borough level, the specific crime rate is shown as a rate of that crime per 1,000 head of population during the specific reporting period. Where possible, the actual crime numbers are shown so that a user can see how many crimes of that type have been recorded in the area of London they are interested in."
You're out of your depth here.
@Loz - C'mon the airline wrote it just like that, its china based airlines, what did you expect. They were wrong period and so are pro-first world AND second world ignorant defenders like YOU. Do you thing we Indians are saints too, aren't we are as racist as anyone else (infact to each other in our own homeland), its just the way every "ignorant educated illiterate" person is in this world.
XLY, I do not owe you a civilised response if your tribe can't be civil themselves. You and your 'screw PC' tribe are all about being blunt and straight to the point, so I'm merely responding in kind. You're oh-so-offended by my mere words but not by the very comments from your tribe that sparked all this furore off, and that says a lot about you. I've mostly kept my mouth shut on OMAAT, even...
XLY, I do not owe you a civilised response if your tribe can't be civil themselves. You and your 'screw PC' tribe are all about being blunt and straight to the point, so I'm merely responding in kind. You're oh-so-offended by my mere words but not by the very comments from your tribe that sparked all this furore off, and that says a lot about you. I've mostly kept my mouth shut on OMAAT, even when the bigotry went way overboard and reached its height after the Emirates crash landing in Dubai and the chaotic evac that followed (funnily enough, there was no similar race-based diatribe after the chaotic BA evac when the plane burst into flames in Vegas).
Your reaction is absolutely hilarious, and it is but a taste of the backlash that your people are going to face in a world that isn't dominated by your kin any more. You could choose to avoid it by being civilised yourselves and refraining from stirring the pot, but you choose to stir to hornets' nest each and every single time. Maybe that's because your kind are born sociopathic and can't live without causing trouble everywhere you go. Deal with it, then.
That seems like solid advice, those are the areas I avoid when in London.
@BenL
No: your map is the number of crimes by area( Sq K) rather than by population density: of course the most densely populated areas are going to show skewed results. Are you suggesting that we should feel safer strolling though Brixton compared with Mayfair?
Indians are the second richest ethnic group in UK after white British. Only the highly skilled Indian professionals go there. And the world respects us.
Never mind these Chinese though. We know that this is the only place where they can vent their frustration against India, as all others are censored by their communist govt..
We mock them everywhere- Facebook, or any other place we meet them. So seriously no indian would mind this.
...Indians are the second richest ethnic group in UK after white British. Only the highly skilled Indian professionals go there. And the world respects us.
Never mind these Chinese though. We know that this is the only place where they can vent their frustration against India, as all others are censored by their communist govt..
We mock them everywhere- Facebook, or any other place we meet them. So seriously no indian would mind this.
The funny part, this advisory also applies to Pakistani, which China refers to as their all weather friends..!!
Everyone kicks these Pakistanis butts, even their best friend... Lol!!
Wow. These comments quickly took a dark and crazy turn.
IF as a matter of FACT that crime rates are higher in those neighborhoods, I don't see why they can't say that. It actually shows racism is not much of an issue in China so people are not sensitive to this type of stuff. Many hypocrites think that way, act that way, but they just don't say it on the surface.
@loz ..........looks like we have a biter! Chomp Chomp Chomp
This spiraled out of control quicly.
@Mark F.
Cheers, and thanks for taking my remarks in stride :)
@Paolo
Did you just visit Wikipedia, look at the 2000-2012 homicides table, and report that as the total crime rate?
The Metropolitan Police statistics are here and speak for themselves: http://maps.met.police.uk/
Ben L, thanks for pointing that out. You are correct that I indeed replaced one erroneous indicator with another. As you state, it would have been better if I just discussed area crime rates and not socio-economic data. Thanks for the correction.
It's like an alarm goes off at Loz's house or something. Though it is always fun to read the righteous and furious hypocrisy in his comments. "How dare you call me a racist or bigot, you stupid ignorant white devil, you're just like all white people who are are stupid ignorant white devils! No, I am not a bigot or a racist, how dare you call me that! I'm brown skinned so I am allowed...
It's like an alarm goes off at Loz's house or something. Though it is always fun to read the righteous and furious hypocrisy in his comments. "How dare you call me a racist or bigot, you stupid ignorant white devil, you're just like all white people who are are stupid ignorant white devils! No, I am not a bigot or a racist, how dare you call me that! I'm brown skinned so I am allowed to be a hypocrite with my comments!" I mean, for a Buddhist, you do seem to throw around quite a bit of vitriolic comments yourself...are you sure you're not originally Chinese?
Low-IQ trolls like BLM have conflated the mere act of me defending my people against unwarranted slander with liberalism and political correctness. Try harder, troll. Jeering me by ironically stating that 'black lives matter' is a futile exercise on your part. Liberalism and political correctness are Western concepts that don't exist outside of your cushy little Western homeland. Your political spectrum means nothing in our context. If you were to extrapolate it, we'd all be...
Low-IQ trolls like BLM have conflated the mere act of me defending my people against unwarranted slander with liberalism and political correctness. Try harder, troll. Jeering me by ironically stating that 'black lives matter' is a futile exercise on your part. Liberalism and political correctness are Western concepts that don't exist outside of your cushy little Western homeland. Your political spectrum means nothing in our context. If you were to extrapolate it, we'd all be far more right-wing and nationalist than the average Breitbart reader, so you're talking to the wall here.
@BenL
Westminster does not have the highest crime rate:,it is barely in the top 20/33. Lambeth , ie Brixton , is 1.
The note says nothing that is not acknowledged by the Black, Indian and Pakistani communities: their areas are not the safest ones to be in. The wording is blunt but the message is correct: be careful in high crime areas. It's not racist I any way.
How dumb would you be if your “virgin” wife got pregnant and 3 random guys showed up to your doors.
Hehe so true. But no can expect religious people to actually be objective and question everything. Which is how they also end up being science deniers.
loz; #blacklivesmatter
@Loz
Mark F does *not* get it. He's substituting one flawed heuristic for another.
If crime is a concern, avoid neighborhoods with high crime rates. The data exists! It's easy to find! It's a lot more clear cut than drawing broad assumptions about other population characteristics.
@Mark F.
"Perhaps the advice should be to stay away from poorer neighborhoods without calling out specific races and ethnicities. That’s not being ‘politically correct’, that is being factual and using data"
No, it's not being factual and using data. In fact, you specifically admit your ignorance of the data. Again, the borough with the highest crime rate is Westminster, which has one of the highest household incomes in London.
Why isn't it enough to...
@Mark F.
"Perhaps the advice should be to stay away from poorer neighborhoods without calling out specific races and ethnicities. That’s not being ‘politically correct’, that is being factual and using data"
No, it's not being factual and using data. In fact, you specifically admit your ignorance of the data. Again, the borough with the highest crime rate is Westminster, which has one of the highest household incomes in London.
Why isn't it enough to say "these neighborhoods have high crime rates. Use caution."? Why bring race or income into it at all?
@Alvin lol anyone who still believes in a religion in this modern day is a fool who needs to believe in a fairy tale of a "white jesus" (who in all depictions should realistically look darker/middle eastern) How dumb would you be if your "virgin" wife got pregnant and 3 random guys showed up to your doorstep with gifts?
As for the Air China comments, heck its not PC but they tell it like...
@Alvin lol anyone who still believes in a religion in this modern day is a fool who needs to believe in a fairy tale of a "white jesus" (who in all depictions should realistically look darker/middle eastern) How dumb would you be if your "virgin" wife got pregnant and 3 random guys showed up to your doorstep with gifts?
As for the Air China comments, heck its not PC but they tell it like it is, realistically where are you more likely to be robbed/raped/killed? In a predominantly white neighborhood or in an ethnic poorer neighborhood? All the liberals claim freedom of speech but when its an opinion not in line with yours, you throw out every label to prevent free speech. Grow up and face the facts its not racist its statistical numbers of where crimes occur more often. If theres a higher chance of it happening there and the neighborhood is easily identified by race then avoid it.
Mark F gets it. There is nothing factual about telling people to "avoid Indians and Pakistanis" in London just like there is nothing factual about telling people to, I don't know, avoid Atlanta in the US because of the high percentage of African Americans.
Standing up against this ridiculous statement from Air China does not make me 'politically correct', but the Sieg Heil crowd that have congregated on OMAAT will conflate literally anything and...
Mark F gets it. There is nothing factual about telling people to "avoid Indians and Pakistanis" in London just like there is nothing factual about telling people to, I don't know, avoid Atlanta in the US because of the high percentage of African Americans.
Standing up against this ridiculous statement from Air China does not make me 'politically correct', but the Sieg Heil crowd that have congregated on OMAAT will conflate literally anything and everything with political correctness simply because it is the only fancy word that they have in their vocabulary. There would be such an outrage if any one country issued an advisory against travel to the American South because of the 'high proportion of dangerous Caucasoids residing there', and rightfully so. Would the Sieg Heil crowd ignore that for the sake of not being 'politically correct', or would they rightfully rally against such bigotry? Pff!
this is what happens when many of the blog's posts were spent on lavishly praising nations like Qatar and carriers like QR.
Edward W, you don't see anything wrong with the statement because it doesn't concern you, but I guarantee you that you would be wailing like a banshee about discrimination if the tables were turned and the magazine told you to avoid 'dangerous Caucasians' in (_insert Bali/Phuket/Goa/etc_). FACT.
Jay, thank you, but I don't need an outsider to tell me what Buddhism is. My people invented it. I can understand it just fine, it runs through...
Edward W, you don't see anything wrong with the statement because it doesn't concern you, but I guarantee you that you would be wailing like a banshee about discrimination if the tables were turned and the magazine told you to avoid 'dangerous Caucasians' in (_insert Bali/Phuket/Goa/etc_). FACT.
Jay, thank you, but I don't need an outsider to tell me what Buddhism is. My people invented it. I can understand it just fine, it runs through my blood. I was just commenting on the sheer hypocrisy of the Chinese people who spew anti-Indian vitriol yet bask in things we gave them - including but not limited to the Buddha, to Shaolin Kung Fu, to the Sutras, to their holy texts, to literally everything that was the genesis of Chinese culture as it was before Mao wrecked it and banished it to Taiwan where it survives today. Chinese people are wilfully blind to their own hypocrisy, and for all their slander against other people they fail to see that they are some of the worst, if not the worst, tourists around.
Perhaps the advice should be to stay away from poorer neighborhoods without calling out specific races and ethnicities. That's not being 'politically correct', that is being factual and using data. I am not familiar with London, but are there any statistics that would indicate that it is racial and ethnic identity that determines a high crime neighborhood or is it instead correlated to poverty? According to China Air, the White House must be a high crime area.
Incidentally, the City of Westminster has the highest crime rate of any London borough, and its residential population is about 75% white.
I used to work for a Chinese company, and I'm sad to say this sort of racism doesn't surprise me one bit.
Imagine being such a colossal fearful baby that you would avoid places simply because of the color of people's skin.
It's simply a fact and very helpful with the magazine readers. PC is only for things not correct in real world. Otherwise why not we just say the word correct, instead of politically correct.
This is a place for people who love to travel and travel safely. I don't see anything wrong with the statement.
@MVP you obviously have no idea what buddhism is, if you think it is about worshipping something think again, if they chinese are doing it like you say then they are not doing it right.....
And cmon who are we kidding they have no idea what religion is in china anymore the commie basta***, the only true representation of Chinese styled religions is in Taiwan which is the preserver of Chinese culture before communism, whatever...
@MVP you obviously have no idea what buddhism is, if you think it is about worshipping something think again, if they chinese are doing it like you say then they are not doing it right.....
And cmon who are we kidding they have no idea what religion is in china anymore the commie basta***, the only true representation of Chinese styled religions is in Taiwan which is the preserver of Chinese culture before communism, whatever you see now in China... I have no idea what to call it...
They should have an article on how the rude, sitnky Chinese spit and cut lines everywhere. They should be taught that civilized people stand in queues.
Lindsey H, save it, American devil. OMAAT is not an extension of your homeland. It is an international blog. I have nothing to do with your country, your people, or your political ideologies. I haven't even set foot in your country before and I have no intention to do so lest I get shot by some raving mad police officer, shot by some looney bin in a theatre, or raped by someone like Brock Turner....
Lindsey H, save it, American devil. OMAAT is not an extension of your homeland. It is an international blog. I have nothing to do with your country, your people, or your political ideologies. I haven't even set foot in your country before and I have no intention to do so lest I get shot by some raving mad police officer, shot by some looney bin in a theatre, or raped by someone like Brock Turner. All I'm doing, as a reader of OMAAT, is standing up to the rising scourge of white trash on this blog (since the owners of OMAAT have clearly demonstrated zero resolve to give em the boot). I swear y'all will come over to our part of the world and holiday in our part of the world with your ill-begotten miles and then stab us in the back by slandering us on OMAAT afterwards. Do us all a favour and stay out of Asia if you think of us in such a lowly manner.
@ MVP - You're also stereotyping here. I'm from Hong Kong (which isn't in China), but a lot of my Chinese friends, much like me, worship God, the Christian God, and not the Buddha...
You have a point, though.
The Korean Air thing sounds like a poor translation job. I don't think they intended offense, or that offense should be taken.
The Air China "advice" though...wow.
Is this the choice: be politically correct or not warn inexperienced passengers that they could end up mugged, raped, dead?
@Loz: ...and also many OMAAT readers migrated away from this website because of intolerant, Republican-hating, anti-Trump people, who simply cannot stand if someone else has a different (not far left) ideology. You are not better than those who you criticize
IMO the funniest thing about this fiasco is the fact that the Chinese collectively worship an Indian man, the Buddha, all whilst telling their people to avoid Indians. Does that mean they're going to throw their Buddha statues into the dustbin now?
The comment from the user "Ben" above: "They got a point and they tell it straight."
Is this what OMAAT is all about now? Someone needs to reel in the white supremacist, Breitbart-style readership of this blog before OMAAT ends up descending into just another extension of Stormfront and losing all its credibility. A lot of OMAAT's readership has migrated elsewhere because of the way the overly white supremacist readership of this blog trolls...
The comment from the user "Ben" above: "They got a point and they tell it straight."
Is this what OMAAT is all about now? Someone needs to reel in the white supremacist, Breitbart-style readership of this blog before OMAAT ends up descending into just another extension of Stormfront and losing all its credibility. A lot of OMAAT's readership has migrated elsewhere because of the way the overly white supremacist readership of this blog trolls its way through the comments section whenever an article related to the "outside world" appears on this blog.
As for you, commenter Ben (not Ben Schlappig), it's all a matter of perspective. If you were to witness the subhuman way in which your kin behave in Phuket, Bali, and Goa, you'd want to avoid them too. Hell, even the Australians who holiday in Bali have taken their business to Thailand because they keep complaining about how the island is now overrun with "dangerous, drunk bogan white trash." You know the situation is bad when they diss their own kind. Then again, given the way that the rampant child sex industry in Thailand is largely fuelled by Westerners, it is only a matter of time before Thailand becomes another country ruined by your kin. People who live in glass houses mustn't throw stones.
As for the Air China statement, meh. The only reason they dragged 'Indian' into the equation and put us in the same league as a bunch of dangerous Jihadist Pakistanis (of which London is full of) is because China and India are technically in a frozen state of war along the Himalayan border, and they'll leap at any opportunity to slander us when they're a thousand times worse in terms of their behaviour abroad.
British Airways had something similar in the 1990s in their in flight magazine. They had an article on the south of the USA and said something about avoiding black neighborhoods too. They also told readers to "avoid the ubiquitous grits - they're filler foods for poor people, and if you're traveling you're not poor". It also recommended that readers visit strip clubs in Atlanta, since they were "world class" with "fabulously beautiful women". Yeah.
They got a point and they tell it straight.