In early 2024, United Airlines had a series of safety incidents that ultimately caused the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to increase oversight of the airline. Among these incidents was a March 2024 runway excursion at Houston Intercontinental Airport (IAH), where a Boeing 737 MAX ran off the runway.
Anyway, here’s something that I find fascinating, nearly two years after the incident. A YouTube video has just been uploaded with an analysis of the cockpit voice recorder, and as an aviation geek, I find it to be incredibly interesting.
What exactly are pilots talking about in the flight deck after something like this? Well, the first phone call was to the union (not surprisingly), and the captain was also focused on not having to get on the same bus to the terminal as passengers, among other things…
In this post:
A United pilot’s surprising commentary after an accident
In March 2024, a United Boeing 737 MAX 8 ran off the runway in Houston, in what can only be described as a completely avoidable accident that was due to pilot error. The very experienced captain was the one flying, and to shorten taxi time, he wanted to roll to the end of the (long) runway.
However, he clearly underestimated the amount of space he’d need, as the plane didn’t slow down enough, sending it off the end of the runway (well, and to the side). He wasn’t following United’s published procedures for landing on a wet runway, so the primary cause of the accident was the captain’s actions.
YouTube channel Flying for Money has an analysis of the cockpit voice recorder, including a recreation of what was said, based on the transcript. I imagine that any pilot would be super rattled after a runway incursion, though the discussions aren’t necessarily what you’d expect.
What makes this unique is that the pilots decided not to order an evacuation via slides (which was a smart move, since those evacuations typically lead to injuries). That meant they waited onboard the plane for stairs to be driven to the plane, and as a result, the extended conversation between the pilots was caught on the cockpit voice recorder.
3min15sec into the video, while still on the plane, you can hear the captain calling his union, the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), to report the incident, and they advise him not to say anything else on the airplane:
Captain: “Listen, I just ran off the end of runway 27.”
ALPA rep: “You did this just now?”
Captain: “Yeah, we’re sitting here in the airplane, left main gear collapsed, and we’re deplaning right now in the buses.”
ALPA rep: “Okay, don’t say another word in the airplane.”
Captain: “Okay, all right.”
The ALPA safety chair then tells them to perform the evacuation, and then assemble the flight attendants away from potential bystander video:
Captain: “We’re sitting both in the cockpit right now.”
ALPA rep: “Okay, door closed?”
Captain: “Door’s closed, the APU is off because the flight attendants told us there was a fuel leak. We’re on the emergency power.”
ALPA rep: “Hey guys, just so you know who I am, I’m the Central Air Safety Committee Chair for ALPA. Just gotta let you know just take a deep breath. It’s okay, relax. Things like this happen. Not a good week for United. We just lost a tire going through the parking lot, so things like this happen. So go through your procedures, make sure you cover all your items, follow your evacuation checklist.”
Captain: “All right, that’s done.”
ALPA rep: “Okay, so now you just secured everything, you’re done at that point. You guys should now start to gather your, I want you to have a plan, you’re gonna travel to the chief pilot’s office, do not do anything else, you’re not talking to anybody. You’re gonna go down there, they’re probably going to make you do a drug and alcohol test, right? That’s standard.”
Captain: “Yeah.”
ALPA rep: “Okay, they’re gonna ask you questions. Your response is gonna be very clearly, ‘I’m a little rattled right now, let me gather my thoughts and we’ll file the appropriate reports in due time.’ I don’t want you guys saying anything right now. Catch your breath, right? Your career is intact, everything’s gonna be fine. This will be a flight safety investigation. You will be completely protected, and after about a month, you’ll go back and fly the line again, and this will be over and done with, okay.”
Captain: “Yeah, the only other thing is that I don’t really want to board the bus with the passengers, so I gotta figure out a way how to get to the terminal.”
ALPA rep: “Okay, what I want you to do is to call maintenance on another line and tell them to send a truck or a vehicle there to take you and the first officer to the chief pilot’s office.”
Hey, I sort of get that the captain doesn’t want to “confront” passengers, but it’s fascinating that one of the few things he proactively asks for and mentions is that he doesn’t want to get on the bus with passengers.
Another interesting thing is that 14min35sec into the video, it has the transcript of the cockpit voice recorder just shortly after the accident (before all of the above happens), where the captain repeatedly and profusely apologizes to the first officer. Over and over, he says things like “God darn it, I’m so sorry,” and “I’m in deep $hit,” and “I can’t believe I did this,” and “sorry, man, to get you into this mess.”
It’s really interesting to hear this kind of commentary
I think I’ve seen just about every episode of Air Crash Investigation over the years, and there you’ll often hear the transcripts of the cockpit voice recorder. However, in many ways it’s interesting to hear this kind of commentary for a less serious, non-fatal accident.
As mentioned above, what’s unique here is how long the pilots were onboard the aircraft after the incident, which meant that what they were discussing after the incident was recorded much longer than it usually would be.
I don’t actually think anything here is too shocking, but it’s still interesting to hear. Of course the captain’s first call is going to be to the union, because he wants to avoid losing his job. It’s also noteworthy how the union is very concerned about overall optics, even telling the pilots to keep the flight attendants away from any possible passenger video.
And the fact that one of the only proactive questions on the part of the captain is how he can avoid getting on a bus with passengers is interesting, and clearly a reflection of where his head was at.
Bottom line
In March 2024, a United Boeing 737 MAX ran off the runway in Houston, due to pilot error. The captain wanted to shorten the taxi time, but wasn’t following procedures for a wet runway, and underestimated the amount of runway he’d need to slow down.
The plane ended up partly in the grass with some serious damage, and everyone stayed onboard for a while, since an emergency evacuation via slides wasn’t needed. As a result, the cockpit voice recorder also captured a lot more conversation than it usually would, with everything ranging from the call to the union, to the captain’s immediate regret.
What do you make of this cockpit voice recorder transcript?
By all means, as the captain of the ship, lock yourself in cockpit and stay in there. Screw the passengers and the rest of the crew. You can do what’s right or what’s comfortable. Clearly, he made a choice.
If he is such a wuss that he cannot face the people he put in harm’s way he has no business sitting in the captain’s chair. I’m pretty sure Sully didn’t lock himself in the...
By all means, as the captain of the ship, lock yourself in cockpit and stay in there. Screw the passengers and the rest of the crew. You can do what’s right or what’s comfortable. Clearly, he made a choice.
If he is such a wuss that he cannot face the people he put in harm’s way he has no business sitting in the captain’s chair. I’m pretty sure Sully didn’t lock himself in the cockpit until the passengers were off the wing and request a separate evacuation boat. But, I could be wrong.
Parker, the plane wasn’t floating on the Hudson…
…. and yo failed to read, digest and comprehend what Parker was posting 1990!
“We just lost a tire going through the parking lot…” Ahh, SFO! I remember that one…
1990 …. I’m betting that you were not on board a Ryanair flight ….
You don’t like £42 base fare, safety cards on the back of the seats, and negative legroom? It’s the best! Take your friends…
You continue to FAIL to answer a simple question 1990. Would you like me to continue to repeat it until it sinks in?
Alternatively, one could choose to conclude that you have never (like me) set a foot on a O’Leary jet?
Down with unions... ROFL
‘Shut up and don’t say anything’ is more lawyers than anything else.
@1990 no, that is classic union talk. Circle the wagons and protect the herd.
And, what would you prefer the union do? Repeatedly shout at the pilot: ‘Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Burn the witch!’ Even defendants should have counsel.
1990, you are loosing the plot old bean. Try taking the example of keeping your lips buttoned up if you know that you are being overheard, yes?
It is beyond telling that the captain thought that calling on a cell phone would keep it private while the cockpit voice recorders are still rolling and, if the captain pulled the circuit breakers on them, he could be criminally charged with obstructing the investigation.
Does he not realize that the Chief Pilot also has a cell phone? Don't you think his first call should be to the company and not the union.
I can...
It is beyond telling that the captain thought that calling on a cell phone would keep it private while the cockpit voice recorders are still rolling and, if the captain pulled the circuit breakers on them, he could be criminally charged with obstructing the investigation.
Does he not realize that the Chief Pilot also has a cell phone? Don't you think his first call should be to the company and not the union.
I can assure you that UA mgmt didn't hear this recording for the first time in the last few days.
and, yeah, UA had a bad week or so of incidents including the 777 that dropped a tire on takeoff from SFO. UA was regularly in the news for a couple of months and then did it all over again last year as EWR imploded due to overscheduling.
Please be sure to monitor the comments here all day today, tonight, and tomorrow, as the internet has come to rely on your expertise on literally everything related to everything, from airlines to airplanes to workers to passengers to safety to politics to law enforcement. What makes your comments so valuable is the A) Volume of your posts, B) Fact that you actually know everything there is to know, and C) You have nothing to...
Please be sure to monitor the comments here all day today, tonight, and tomorrow, as the internet has come to rely on your expertise on literally everything related to everything, from airlines to airplanes to workers to passengers to safety to politics to law enforcement. What makes your comments so valuable is the A) Volume of your posts, B) Fact that you actually know everything there is to know, and C) You have nothing to learn, but everything to teach; what you say are facts, never opinions, and you always get the last word, which is a real sign of earned self-confidence, and an understanding of what matters most. The last word is the word that sticks, and your mastery of this is nothing short of awesome. Your willingness to say something about everything, no matter how trivial, is a sight to behold!
Thank you for your endless and tireless contributions, and keeping everyone in line with your facts. May you live and comment forever.
now, counter what I wrote with your own facts.
does the UA Chief pilot not have a cell phone?
Do cockpit voice recorders not also record cell phone conversations - at least the half of the conversation that is made in the cockpit?
and when even the union rep reminded the pilot that UA had a bad week, everyone knew the scrutiny was on UA.
Errors and accidents happen; fortunately, airlines are well-insured for these incidents. No need to vilify crews, or bash unions. Glad everyone was alright at the end of the day here.
and yet there were mistakes. Aviation is safer because people learned from the mistakes that were made in the past.
Humans make mistakes. but we don't sweep them under the rug because they are uncomfortable to some to discuss
There are alot of lessons to be learned and that is why Ben posted the article.
I’d be surprised if the pilot here wasn’t put on mandatory leave, had to submit fully to the internal and external investigations, and likely did not return without additional training.
I’d also be shocked if United didn’t insure for this situation; like, they’d be a bad business if they just took the loss without covering such possibilities. Please tell me Delta is insured for such situations.
Why would his first cell phone call be to the company? He’d just run an aircraft into the grass at one of UA’s biggest hubs and notified ATC. The chief pilot will know soon enough.
So, what happened to the captain? Was he back in the air one month later as the union rep promised?
I’m sure there was an appropriate leave period, and apparently, there was an investigation, as there is after nearly all aviation accidents like this.
Do you really need to dox and harass this pilot? You do you, but, that seems psychotic to me.
I’d imagine this incident is a low point in his career, but it doesn’t mean he should forever lose his license or serve a life sentence in a prison because of it.
Calling his union rep makes sense as he needs to know what his next steps should be. Would you criticize someone calling their lawyer in a time potential legal issues?
It would appear that he was advised there were no injuries and other than passengers being shook up and now massively inconvenience they were ok. Understandably, he doesn't want to have to address potential endless questions from passengers on the bus of what went wrong...
Calling his union rep makes sense as he needs to know what his next steps should be. Would you criticize someone calling their lawyer in a time potential legal issues?
It would appear that he was advised there were no injuries and other than passengers being shook up and now massively inconvenience they were ok. Understandably, he doesn't want to have to address potential endless questions from passengers on the bus of what went wrong and why.
That's not to excuse possible pilot errors and bad judgement. That's for the experts at the NTSB to determine not commenters to a blog post.
@ George Romey -- Not sure if this is directed at my post, but I wasn't intending to criticize the captain or his decision to call the union. I just thought it was interesting to actually hear this.
Any self respecting commercial pilot, should have the intelligence to know that you do not speak (at all), until you are in the presence of your chosen advisors. Whilst in the cockpit he should have kept his lips firmly buttoned up! Talking while under the influence of adrenaline, can become a pathway to disaster.
I agree, George. Once it was understood as to not be an emergency evacuation, the call the union was reasonable, as would be a call to an attorney in other situations. Like, in a court setting, I doubt such evidence of a ‘defendant’ calling their attorney would be allowed to insinuate that therefore he’s ‘guilty’ or that anyone pleading the Fifth is automatically guilty (even though our President has suggested as much.)
1990, “The call the union” as you put it was “Reasonable”, however, to do so from the cockpit, knowing that the cockpit voice recorder was operating, is hardly commendable, yes?
Until you’ve been crew during an actual incident like this, who knows how you or I would react. Obviously, nothing here is ‘great.’ Still, glad everyone was alright.
Just a quick reminder for all the union critics: No unions are as forcefully protective of their members in the face of wrong-doing than those in law enforcement and corrections.
Majority of unions are respectively and doing good work. Exception being law enforcement and corrections unions. They’re dreadful.
I work in a hospital union shop at a hospital with more than God. The staff are well paid and well-resourced, better than most hospitals I’ve seen in my 20 year career in healthcare advisory work (separate from my clinical work). All I hear is the non-stop whining of:
1. We’re short staffed.
2. We don’t have enough resources.
3. I didn’t get my break.
4. I’m not going above my ratio...
I work in a hospital union shop at a hospital with more than God. The staff are well paid and well-resourced, better than most hospitals I’ve seen in my 20 year career in healthcare advisory work (separate from my clinical work). All I hear is the non-stop whining of:
1. We’re short staffed.
2. We don’t have enough resources.
3. I didn’t get my break.
4. I’m not going above my ratio and I can’t care if the patient is dying, find someone else.
5. I’m going to file a grievance.
Not a single one asks if they are providing safe, effective, efficient care.
So American.
No one can ever be who they are due to endless litigation
Well, well …. and is this article going to bring out all of the ‘Walter Mitty’s’ or what …. at least a 100 clicks Ben. Well spotted old bean.
You understand how the Internet works these days, right? Why do you post the same, lame thing every day? Seriously.
For the same reason's as you of course Ronnie. I simply wish to aid Ben’s, click count. Yes! You can see that it works too …. as you took the click-bait, yes?
I think we can get it to 200 REPLIES. Ben can get 100 CLICKS to an article like this 10 minutes after it is posted.
This is not the type of story that gets to 100, let alone 200, unless you fellas really want to manufacture a debate. It’s the Trump-stuff, and confusing new-card-stuff, and Ben-personal-announcement stuff that get those numbers. Regardless, most of us are here because we care. Love of the game, right?
But 1990, with the help of your prolific postings, surely you can achieve 100 with little or no effort on your part. Especially if you are courteous enough to tell everyone how many Ryanair flights you have taken …. yes?
I told ‘Guest’ Aero, 4x. I suppose your secretary didn’t pass along the memo. Wasn’t much better or worse than Spirit, or Vueling, or Easyjet. Haven’t tried Wizz, but I’d imagine they’re similar, eh?
Typical union bullshit… lie and obfuscate.
I think you meant: protect their members. Would you prefer your union throw you under the bus? Airlines are well-insured for accidents. United is just fine. This pilot doesn’t deserve a death sentence for his mistake.
I wish it was a surprise that ALPA went into full CYA mode rather than getting facts out and focusing on safety.
Julie, NTSB would get the facts anyway. Unions are supposed to protect their members. If anything this story shows the real value of organized labor, not to undermine it. Think of it as counsel in a legal dispute; you’d want a decent attorney, no? Or do you prefer to represent yourself? …a fool for a client.