It’s normal to see airlines add all kinds of summer seasonal routes to Europe. Often we see airlines make one big announcement, though in the case of Delta Air Lines, the Atlanta-based carrier seems to be taking more of a “drip” approach to revealing new service.
For the summer of 2026, Delta has already announced plans to launch flights from Boston (BOS) to Madrid (MAD) and Nice (NCE), flights from New York (JFK) to Malta (MLA) and Sardinia (OLB), and flights from Seattle (SEA) to Barcelona (BCN) and Rome (FCO). We can now add a seventh route to the mix.
In this post:
Delta will add first-ever flight to Porto, Portugal
As of May 21, 2026, Delta will launch a daily seasonal flight between New York and Porto (OPO). The flight will operate with the following schedule:
DL114 New York to Porto departing 10:25PM arriving 10:30AM (+1 day)
DL115 Porto to New York departing 12:25PM arriving 3:15PM
The 3,322-mile service is blocked at 7hr5min eastbound and 7hr50min westbound. Porto is of course set along the banks of the Douro Valley, and is known for its colorful waterfront and old-world charm.
This will be Delta’s first route to Porto, and second destination in Portugal, after Lisbon (LIS). Delta flies to Lisbon year-round out of New York, and seasonally out of Boston.
Delta will use its workhorse Boeing 767-300ERs for this route, featuring 216 seats, including 26 business class seats, 18 premium economy seats, and 172 economy class seats. Here’s how Paul Baldoni, Delta’s SVP of Network Planning, describes this:
“Delta’s new nonstop service from JFK to Porto is part of seven new European routes launching next summer, giving customers even more opportunities to experience Europe and enjoy our award-winning service and premium onboard experience. Whether discovering Portugal or traveling to our other new destinations such as Sardinia and Malta, these additions expand choice for our customers and reinforce JFK’s role as a leading global gateway.”
My take on Delta adding seasonal Porto flights
A summer seasonal flight to Portugal out of New York on a fairly low capacity plane seems like a safe enough route addition, and I’m sure it’ll do fine.
In terms of the competitive landscape, United currently flies seasonally to Porto out of Newark (EWR), using the Boeing 757. TAP Air Portugal flies year-round between Porto and Newark, and seasonally between Porto and Boston, using the Airbus A321neo. And American flies to El Paso (ELP)… does that count?
So yeah, Delta is following United’s lead here, and Star Alliance definitely has the advantage in terms of the quantity of service. However, it’s not like TAP Air Portugal and United have a terribly close partnership (TAP isn’t in the Star Alliance transatlantic joint venture), and it’s not like this is a business heavy route, or anything.
Of note is that this is a transatlantic market where Delta has a better hard product than United across cabins (which isn’t terribly common).
As we see Delta add all of these new seasonal routes of New York, keep in mind that some markets are being cut to make this possible. Out of New York, Delta has canceled some routes in business markets, including to Brussels (BRU), Geneva (GVA), etc.
Bottom line
In May 2026, Delta will launch daily, seasonal flights between New York and Porto using Boeing 767s. Currently, United is the only US airline to fly to Porto, and then you also have TAP Air Portugal flying between the United States and Porto.
Delta is adding some cool new European destinations next year, though it’s coming at the expense of service to airports like Brussels, Geneva, etc.
What do you make of Delta adding Porto flights?
Porto is super nice. They make tons of port wine right across the river in Villanova de Gaia. Killer sardines on a waterfront too. Very competitive price wise, gorgeous architecture.
Y’all are pathetic. Arguing on a blog about an airline you have no shares in. Do better. Love this for Ben though because the engagement is there
it is beyond pathetic that:
1. Some people are obviously so consumed w/ an anonymous person on the internet that they have to attack them personally and arguing every point they make.
2. Quote another blogger that says he just ignores certain people but they themselves are incapable of demonstrating the self-control to do the same
3. Are incapable of understanding that no person or entity including an airline can be all...
it is beyond pathetic that:
1. Some people are obviously so consumed w/ an anonymous person on the internet that they have to attack them personally and arguing every point they make.
2. Quote another blogger that says he just ignores certain people but they themselves are incapable of demonstrating the self-control to do the same
3. Are incapable of understanding that no person or entity including an airline can be all things to all people. United is far behind AA and DL domestically and has huge gaps in its network including from the NE to S. America and in the SE US. But they can't admit that and argue incessantly as if their family reputation depends on proving someone else wrong.
Ben does love to see it but most of his readers are not interested in sifting thru the incessant child arguments from people that are incapable of letting someone else say what they want and then walk away.
@Ben
Isn’t Boston-Lisbon year round and not seasonal?
BOS-LIS is on TP. BOS-OPO is seasonal I think he said that?
We are talking about Delta here, not TP.
It's good thinking, either it works, or not... You never know until you try it. I bet they don't really care about Portugese VFR much. It's rather to generate new European holiday traffic IMHO. If you build it, they will come, with enough publicity. Btw, it seems their aircraft choice is the best of the three options for cattle class passengers, actually
So premium!
On one hand, one of your commenters thinks aircraft type is about 159th on the list a typical airline passenger has in mind when he/she books a flight, yet seems obsessed with attempting to justify the seating arrangements on Delta’s ancient and creaky 767s. I just don’t get it.
"So yeah, Delta is following United’s lead here, and Star Alliance definitely has the advantage in terms of the quantity of service. However, it’s not like TAP Air Portugal and United have a terribly close partnership (TAP isn’t in the Star Alliance transatlantic joint venture), and it’s not like this is a business heavy route, or anything.
Of note is that this is a transatlantic market where Delta has a better hard product than United...
"So yeah, Delta is following United’s lead here, and Star Alliance definitely has the advantage in terms of the quantity of service. However, it’s not like TAP Air Portugal and United have a terribly close partnership (TAP isn’t in the Star Alliance transatlantic joint venture), and it’s not like this is a business heavy route, or anything.
Of note is that this is a transatlantic market where Delta has a better hard product than United across cabins (which isn’t terribly common)."
These articles are just always loaded with backhanded and snide comments. Honestly, I would rather you just come out in the open and take your stance on Delta and their product instead of making it so snarky all the time. Like I don't know what you want your readers to do with that above commentary.
If you think Delta's strategy is boring or their product is bad, then just say so.
you sure do love stealing other usernames, Tim.
--Actual Julie
what a weird person to not be able to speak in their own voice and attempt to steal someone else's voice.
You go, Girl. Way to live your life through someone else and scared to be yourself.
You realize Ben can see which email is being used for this, right?
Both of these comments are actually me btw. I just like to pretend there's an issue, so that there's more discourse and engagement. Notice how I do this every time on every article? That's how you know we're one in the same.
what a normal response from the imposter. use someone else's name then say we have a double personality. You make it so obvious who you are.
Ben can see who the two are. You're deranged. Truly sick and mentally deranged
Does this make you feel cool? To pretend to be others instead of using your own voice? Is your own voice so weak that you can't respond to other posters with your own name? You...
what a normal response from the imposter. use someone else's name then say we have a double personality. You make it so obvious who you are.
Ben can see who the two are. You're deranged. Truly sick and mentally deranged
Does this make you feel cool? To pretend to be others instead of using your own voice? Is your own voice so weak that you can't respond to other posters with your own name? You have to attempt to steal others'? This must be such a tragic name to have so little self-esteem that you can't even speak under your own name but obviously attempt to steal others?
this is such a normal mark of mental derangement
--Real Julie
Yes, I've talked a long time about my schizoid paranoia, which people can see coming out in full force.
I do apologize everyone, I've been slacking on the meds lately.
didn't you get raptured, fake Julie?
Tell us about about how God did not agree with your rapture timeline?
or why a day later... why wasn't ben raptured in a pleasant sleep with his husband and children...
Otherwise. STFU about your life. You weren't raptured. You're just a fucking idiot.
Book a flight to OPO and just enjoy your life :*
If people say Tim Dunn is the #1 most insane commenter on this site, then Julie takes the #2 easily.
speaking the truth may appear to be insanity but it is precisely what is needed no matter who is offended
and all the real Julie has to do to secure her name is to register it w/ the site. It is laughable to watch this whole "julie" show given how easy it is to fix
All real Julie needs to do is take her meds and stop having psychotic breakdowns on the internet
or Tim and Mason could stop using fake names to reply to their own idiocy.
is it that hard to just use your own name to back up your own idiotic statements, Timoteo?
Are you that lacking in self esteem that you require other usernames to back up your idiocy?
--real Julie
Upon reflection, my reply just now completely proves the point that I need to take my meds. I'm just a silly woman!
--real Julie
you really do need help fake julie.
Are you this unable to make your own opinions? you're truly a loser, tim. Does this make you feel better, tim?
-- (actual) real Julie -- I think we all know who the idiot imposter is
I'd just say like other imposters before.
Ben, you know who the fake people are using this username. Maybe ban them like you have others? The real Julie's username is always the same email. Maybe ban Tim's imposter attempts?
I'm so off the rocker that I think just adding qualifying vocabulary increases the veracity of my identity! Anyone can tell I am real because this is how all of my comments are normally, exactly like how an insane person types.
-- (super duper actual) only real Julie
Legit
do you feel cool doing this? being the idiot everyone identifies you as?
are you actually this bored in your life? That an aviation site you have to take on a fake identity to even take part? You can't possible be this lame of a human being? But it seems you are...?
-Real Julie
you really do need help fake julie.
Are you this unable to make your own opinions? you're truly a loser
-- real Julie
I'll admit it. You have admitted it.
You have proven you have no life on a Friday.
I know why i don't -- alas... 100 spare pounds.
Fake Julie -- are you this much of a loser?
-- Shouldn't be a thing but the real julie since someone else can't live on their own
I'm so pathetic I don't even realize the irony in replying to myself that I have proven I have no life on a Friday.
Too late to the game with UA and TP controlling the market..
you do realize that UA and TP are alliance partners but not joint venture partners, which makes them legally required to compete?
as to the comment below, if the market is at capacity now, then someone will blink.
Lots of people think LAX-HKG is at capacity - and UA's load factors are well below its TPAC and system averages - but DL is showing up anyway.
Either DL believes that the market still has...
you do realize that UA and TP are alliance partners but not joint venture partners, which makes them legally required to compete?
as to the comment below, if the market is at capacity now, then someone will blink.
Lots of people think LAX-HKG is at capacity - and UA's load factors are well below its TPAC and system averages - but DL is showing up anyway.
Either DL believes that the market still has lots of ability to grow or it will inflict damage to the participants in the market - and itself.
Porto is not a JV partner hub. UA has no advantage over DL.
and , for anyone that can read between the lines, you have to ask the question if DL is now going to use its 767s during their last few years to start service on top of a number of UA unique destinations esp. that are operated by 757s.
DL already has proven with Sardinia and Malta that it will add unique new cities for US carrier to DL's network.
The HKG move and now this one clearly shows that DL is ready to sit on UA wherever it feels like it needs to do so.
Given that DL already makes hundreds of millions more in profit on its international system than UA does even though UA flies a much larger amount of capacity, Scott Kirby should be more concerned about what DL is going to do to UA than what UA is going to do to the ultra low cost carriers that UA thinks it is single-handedly eliminating.
@Ben
Isn’t Boston-Lisbon year round and not seasonal?
Huge Porto fan here but this is waaaaaay too much aircraft for OPO and, I think, a bad sign for DL TBH.
TP and UA have the VFR market locked up. If you know the Portuguese communities in NJ, MA and PT they love to hate both airlines but are locked in. UA and TP have operated to Portugal continuously forever from the Tri state region and know the market super well.
Both...
Huge Porto fan here but this is waaaaaay too much aircraft for OPO and, I think, a bad sign for DL TBH.
TP and UA have the VFR market locked up. If you know the Portuguese communities in NJ, MA and PT they love to hate both airlines but are locked in. UA and TP have operated to Portugal continuously forever from the Tri state region and know the market super well.
Both UA and TP have larger equipment they *could* deploy anytime to OPO and LIS but choose not to.
I think this is gonna be a stretch. Shocked that they think this will outperform.
Hey Ben don’t knock El Paso, I’ve been on a driving trip & it’s an incredibly interesting city
El Paso - I spent a month there one night!
El Paso is a dump right on a Mexican border, and it gets all the crime overflow from there. Unless you're a US Border Patrol agent or a Mexican, or both, avoid at all costs.
Good for Delta for exploiting weak competition and running like a dog with its tail between its legs from major business and political centers like BRU GVA MUC STR TXL
TWA ran like that before, leaving Italian routes left.
feel free to tell us the profit margins for BRU; Brussels Airlines is the least profitable airline in the LH Group.
Feel free to let us know when another airline besides DL served STR; DL was the last legacy carrier operating between STR and the US.
DL still serves the same number of flights to BRU and MUC as it has; they just have the benefit of having a massive hub in ATL that competes...
feel free to tell us the profit margins for BRU; Brussels Airlines is the least profitable airline in the LH Group.
Feel free to let us know when another airline besides DL served STR; DL was the last legacy carrier operating between STR and the US.
DL still serves the same number of flights to BRU and MUC as it has; they just have the benefit of having a massive hub in ATL that competes exceptionally well for traffic from most cities outside of the NE? UA and AA would absolutely die to have a TATL hub as large and profitable as DL has in ATL.
and you do know that TXL is closed; DL flies to BER.
please do think before you pound the keyboard.
Can 767s land at Santorini or Mykonos airports? I imagine filling a daily service from New York next summer would be very easy.
Congrats to DL on the new route. Love Porto...so there with some regularity. Will not be on DL and their crap-a@@ 763s...at least not if I'm paying for the flight. Give me a somewhat modern plane with modern amenities and I'm all about it. Said differently, and to poke the @Tim Dunn bear, I'd fly a new 321XLR over a 763 from the bronze age any day.
first of all, Parker, thank you for your respectful comment. Others could learn from you.
second, let's get to the factual basis of your statements.
- let us know what percentage of passengers know the age of the aircraft they are flying, certainly at the time of booking. Aircraft age is somewhere around the 159th factor that influences booking preference for the average traveler.
- second, the XLR might be more modern...
first of all, Parker, thank you for your respectful comment. Others could learn from you.
second, let's get to the factual basis of your statements.
- let us know what percentage of passengers know the age of the aircraft they are flying, certainly at the time of booking. Aircraft age is somewhere around the 159th factor that influences booking preference for the average traveler.
- second, the XLR might be more modern but please tell us what percentage of operators that have TATL 321NEOs in service have direct aisle access in business class for every seat. I can think of two operators = B6 and IB. Fill in the list for us.
- third, any widebody will have a higher percentage of aisle seats than the 320 family. You all love to talk about how great business class is but narrowbody aircraft are much worse in terms of comfort for economy passengers - who make up the majority of travelers.
and fourth - someone below noted that UA is getting the XLR which will have direct aisle access but their 757s most certainly do not even though UA fans love to yelp about the consistency of their fleet. DL's 767s compete against UA 757s on many routes and will on this one. UA might upgrade to one of their standard 767s but that will mean taking a widebody from someplace else. UA clearly uses the 757 to extend their route system to places the 757 can fly which is why so much of their network to Iceland, Ireland, the UK and secondary destinations in western continental Europe is on 757s. The aged DL 767-300ER is simply a superior aircraft to UA's aged 757s in every possible way.
and fifth, it is notable that B6 is the only airline that uses 321NEOs with fewer seats than AA and UA propose = and B6 is not exactly the epitome of financial success. AA and UA somehow think that they will win by using 150ish seat A321NEOs to compete with widebodies including to destinations which other airlines serve with widebodies or compete with connections. As someone accurately noted on the GVA thread, there is a market for NYC and IAD to these destinations but many more passengers connect in Europe with widebodies across the Atlantic; the notion that AA and UA will command a fare premium on these flights is simply fiction. 150 seat 321NEO aircraft will be much higher CASM aircraft which means it will be pretty hard for AA and UA to make money on those flights compared to the competition.
so, go ahead and fly your XLR..you just won't find an airline flying NYC to OPO that offers direct aisle access for every seat in business class or 60% aisle seats in economy as you will find on a 767.
oh, and the 767 cruises faster and higher than the 321NEO.
Yeah, I don’t get it. DL's 763 is the worst J of any widebody 1-2-1 I know of. I might like a 1-1 narrowbody, but the 763 is superior to any 2-2 J. Plus PE is 2-2-2, alowing direct-aisle access to 2/3rds of that and 57% of Y. A near perfect Y experience for a couple in coach (relative to other a/c). Oh, and BTW, a couple might also like Y on the a330 (2-4-2), but have less a chance to get the group of 2 on the sides .
Tim, what is your fixation on narrowbody vs widebody? If your best argument is that UA flies 757s, then you soon won’t have any argument since UA will have the A321XLRs next summer, quickly replacing the 757s.
Those A321XLRs will offer a much better business class experience for the high-revenue customers. Suites with doors, compared to the 767s that even Ben calls one of the worst business class experiences in the skies.
UA...
Tim, what is your fixation on narrowbody vs widebody? If your best argument is that UA flies 757s, then you soon won’t have any argument since UA will have the A321XLRs next summer, quickly replacing the 757s.
Those A321XLRs will offer a much better business class experience for the high-revenue customers. Suites with doors, compared to the 767s that even Ben calls one of the worst business class experiences in the skies.
UA is larger than DL across the Atlantic not only because they have so many widebodies but also because they have narrowbodies in service and on order that allow them to tailor their fleet strategy to their network.
When DL eventually retires their last 767, they will be forced to fly large A330s to all those secondary cities in Europe that won’t be able to profitably fill that much capacity.
DL, by canceling NYC service to BRU, MUC, LGW, GVA, and not even bothering to apply for HND, continues the strategy of making customer connect through a SkyTeam hub. How many premium customers in NYC do you think will tolerate a connection in ICN, CDG, or AMS? None. They’ve agreed to hand them over to UA, as DL can’t compete against Star, even from their NYC hub, where, according to you, they’re the strongest.
Or is that only on RJ flights out of LGA to destinations within the perimeter rule?
I bet UAL responds by upgauging to their 767 Hi-J
Lol, will we get 200+ comments on this move by Delta out of JFK like we got in the Geneva post?
Portugal continues to be a hot destination for US travelers, especially in the summer. Markets like Brussels and Genava are less so at this time. Makes sense for Delta to try this route. All the debate about JFK's hub profitability for Delta, SkyTeam versus Star Alliance, etc is all besides the point
we don't need to get 200 replies if the people that hold up CF for his position on letting me and others say what they want to say without feeling the need to reply would do the same. Clearly, there are a whole lot of them that don't have the self-control to recognize that someone else can have a different opinion.
and, Delta has consistently cut a few routes and added new ones - both...
we don't need to get 200 replies if the people that hold up CF for his position on letting me and others say what they want to say without feeling the need to reply would do the same. Clearly, there are a whole lot of them that don't have the self-control to recognize that someone else can have a different opinion.
and, Delta has consistently cut a few routes and added new ones - both happen this time of the year. Delta's leading profitability among US airlines - and globally if labor costs were normalized across all carriers - is because they maximize profits, not dots on the route map.
For 2026, DL will add at least 3 new dots while removing 2, one of which serves the same city where DL and its JV partner VS have dozens of flights at the other airport, LHR.
It is also worth noting that the DOT has sent warning letters to the EU about US carrier access to DUB, AMS and LIS. B6 undoubtedly has complained about not being able to get into those airports - as they should.
It is not a surprise that DL is growing its presence in markets where there is limited access which helps ensure profits.
and it is also noteworthy that DL is adding service to Ireland and Portugal using widebodies where other airlines including UA use narrowbodies. DL will gain proportionately more share of the market by using even a 767-300ER than UA can by using 757s. and, of course, EI heavily uses A321s to the US but has much more dense configurations and fewer premium seats.
those are simply facts but if those who don't have self-control and can't follow CF's example want to argue, then we just might hit 200 or even 400 comment replies.
OPO is more promising than OLB or MLA. Progress, but it's just a matter of time.
Thank you for writing. I do not belong to the Delta fan club but do want your opinions.
Porto is the best portuguese port of entry into Portugal. Immigration is not terrible. Both LIS amd OPO have mediocre lounges (LIS have shower).
I prefer to arrive at OPO or MAD or even BCN if the final destination is LIS
Can’t wait for this route to also be axed in the future, further solidifying Skyteam as the inferior alliance
inferior would be an alliance that is built on using narrowbodies, esp. old ones that lack direct aisle access to every seat in business class.
SkyTeam is the only alliance that doesn't use narrowbodies from Ireland or anyplace east from the US.
AF, DL, KL and VS operate only widebodies from Ireland, the UK and continental Europe to the US.
There goes Tim spreading wrong information! SAS - which is part of the inferior SkyLame alliance - has quite a few A321 narrowbodies crossing the Atlantic everyday. I'm sure Ed will be more than happy to collect 400k SkyPesos to let you book an award seat on one of those A321s!
Jeff,
did you see SK listed with the carriers I noted?
no, you didn't because they aren't a part of the SkyTeam JV; in contrast multiple airlines that are part of the oneworld and Star JVs do use narrowbodies.
feel free to tell us the number of SK narrowbody TATL flights and then do the same for EI, IB etc and then add B6 and UA in the US.
Yes, SK is...
Jeff,
did you see SK listed with the carriers I noted?
no, you didn't because they aren't a part of the SkyTeam JV; in contrast multiple airlines that are part of the oneworld and Star JVs do use narrowbodies.
feel free to tell us the number of SK narrowbody TATL flights and then do the same for EI, IB etc and then add B6 and UA in the US.
Yes, SK is in SkyTeam but the fractional percentage of SkyTeam capacity that is on narrowbodies pales in comparison to what is in other alliances and none of SkyTeam narrowbody capacity is part of the JV, unlike other alliances.
Max,
you could follow CF's example and simply let me and other people say what they want but you have proven you don't have the self-control or personal maturity to sit on the sidelines as Brett does, even if he disagrees with me.
AF, KL and VS don't have the DL scope agreement but they don't have narrowbodies either. they could add narrowbodies if they wanted to - but don't.
Narrowbody TATL operations are a key reason why UA trails DL in profit margin; there are very good reasons why UA makes just 3/4 of the profits that DAL makes despite flying a larger TATL network.
And AA and UA are unique even among 321NEO operators in thinking they can generate profits with a 150ish seat narrowbody; let me know what other airlines besides financial basket case B6 try to do that.
do your work, Max. Better yet demonstrate the self-control to just ignore other people or, better yet, just post your opinion or fact and quit being so preoccupied w/ me.
If you want to see less of my posts, practice the common sense to not attack me.
CF doesn't let that happen between ANY of his commenters and he runs one of the cleanest comment sections in aviation social media.
and he produces great fact-filled, data-backed articles.
Like I said, Timmy. Post data-based "facts" or you will get called out on making things up.
And per this reply to Jeff, "did you see SK listed with the carriers I noted?"
As a matter of fact, Yes. Everyone did that can read when you said "SkyTeam is the only alliance that doesn't use narrowbodies from Ireland or anyplace east from the US."
Skyteam, in fact, does use narrow bodies from CPH to...
Like I said, Timmy. Post data-based "facts" or you will get called out on making things up.
And per this reply to Jeff, "did you see SK listed with the carriers I noted?"
As a matter of fact, Yes. Everyone did that can read when you said "SkyTeam is the only alliance that doesn't use narrowbodies from Ireland or anyplace east from the US."
Skyteam, in fact, does use narrow bodies from CPH to the US. Don't try to call out others when you forget what you wrote in plain black and white.
And again, it's rather clear why Delta didn't order the XLR but AA and UA did with premium configurations -- Delta's scope clause.
And while it's terribly ironic that you seem to view CF in a positive light, so do I... but let's be clear. He suggested others ignore you like he does -- aka. He ignores you. At his request, so do I on his website.
Ben seems ok with your random rants and my replies to you. If he ever isn't, he has my email address and I'm happy to not reply.
But again, you wouldn't have to worry about being called out as wrong if you just stopped trying to make dogmatic statements that are just flat out wrong. Try it.
No one is preoccupied with you. You get your self esteem from the comment sections, it seems. Find it elsewhere.
it's truly amazing the space I occupy in your head and your random rants in reply when a simple "you're right. I was wrong in what I said" would suffice.
"inferior would be an alliance that is built on using narrowbodies, esp. old ones that lack direct aisle access to every seat in business class."
To Jeff's point, yes. Skyteam does use narrow bodies (even excluding your random exclusion of Delta's own European JV definition including 757s to KEF with your "east of Ireland" lol...)
Separately, I've always known about Delta's ALPA Scope provision to match partner flying but, since it's been coming up on...
"inferior would be an alliance that is built on using narrowbodies, esp. old ones that lack direct aisle access to every seat in business class."
To Jeff's point, yes. Skyteam does use narrow bodies (even excluding your random exclusion of Delta's own European JV definition including 757s to KEF with your "east of Ireland" lol...)
Separately, I've always known about Delta's ALPA Scope provision to match partner flying but, since it's been coming up on other websites, I had forgotten that Delta doesn't get any Scope credit when they use something like a 757 or XLR (narrow body) so there's actually a reason Delta doesn't order the XLR like AA and UA and it likely isn't some enhanced desire for comfort. Delta has to fly widebodies across the Atlantic anyway so they might as well make sure an XLR isn't taking up a route where they could get JV pilot scope credit.
It's going to be interesting to see how many more dots Delta will lose as the 763 starts to retire and Delta no longer has a profitable plane to fly to smaller niche destinations like OPO or Malta, etc.
I have too much work to do today but your rant about others not letting you talk above? ;) You can say whatever you want, Tim, and you certainly do. But if you flat out try to lie about made up data presenting as fact to others, yes. You will get called out on it EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
Post what you want, but make it factual and data-based. Or just be prepared to be embarrassed by people who actually know what they're talking about and use data before they make dogmatic statements ridiculing the size of UA to South America while actually having no idea that Delta is the smallest... ;)
we're waiting for the number of ASMs, you know, your favorite metric, for DL from ATL To Latin America compared to UA from IAH to Latin America.
see... this is precisely what well-run companies do.
They cull lower performing routes and add new ones.
DL's European network will be larger in 2026 than it will be in 2025 even though DL's new aircraft deliveries will be lower in 2026 than they have been in 2 years as a result of the A350-1000 delays.
DL is expected to retire at least a half dozen 767-300ERs over the next few months but this route...
see... this is precisely what well-run companies do.
They cull lower performing routes and add new ones.
DL's European network will be larger in 2026 than it will be in 2025 even though DL's new aircraft deliveries will be lower in 2026 than they have been in 2 years as a result of the A350-1000 delays.
DL is expected to retire at least a half dozen 767-300ERs over the next few months but this route will launch with one, proving why the 767 is perfect for certain routes.
UA and TP both fly from EWR with narrowbodies; the DL 767-300ER will be the largest aircraft in the market and will also offer the only all direct aisle business class access.
There are multiple routes from NYC where DL uses a 767 and UA uses a 757 (as well as from IAD)
OPO along with DL's 2 other new cities - Malta and Sardinia - show the shift in American traveler preference for southern Europe.
What a loser
Lol.. so it has nothing to do with GVA, LGW and BRU being flops, right?
"see... this is precisely what well-run companies do.
They cull lower performing routes and add new ones."
Yes - great point. No other airline but DL does this.
Well, except for the ULCCs. You know…Spirit, Avelo and Allegiant, just to name three, errr, beauties. They drop markets almost the same way all the time.
I think you already know, but your comment makes it sound like you might not.
UA begins taking delivery of A321XLRs next year. These will have state of the art premium cabins and will replace all 757 flying.
Also, with DL retiring 767s, they will soon be left with the A330 as their smallest plane. An aircraft likely too large to serve secondary cities in Europe.
Additionally, there is still the question...
I think you already know, but your comment makes it sound like you might not.
UA begins taking delivery of A321XLRs next year. These will have state of the art premium cabins and will replace all 757 flying.
Also, with DL retiring 767s, they will soon be left with the A330 as their smallest plane. An aircraft likely too large to serve secondary cities in Europe.
Additionally, there is still the question of why DL has so many underperforming routes from NYC. UA canceled a route too, but it was to Bergen, hardly in the same league as MUC, BRU, GVA, LGW.
With UA’s top notch route planning, along with hundreds of new planes being delivered, UA doesn’t seem to find itself in the situation of canceling four high-profile routes out of NYC.
I personally do not want to fly to Europe on a single aisle aircraft, nor would I consider Nuuk top notch.
you mean, UA's route planning, Mark, that generated just 75% of the profits that DL earned flying the Atlantic even though UA flies much more capacity?
and it's far worse this year. UA's TATL profits for the first 2 quarters of 2025 are just 58% of DL's.
Don't like those numbers? Feel free to let us know what other regions you want UA's profits to decrease in so that you can show higher profits across...
you mean, UA's route planning, Mark, that generated just 75% of the profits that DL earned flying the Atlantic even though UA flies much more capacity?
and it's far worse this year. UA's TATL profits for the first 2 quarters of 2025 are just 58% of DL's.
Don't like those numbers? Feel free to let us know what other regions you want UA's profits to decrease in so that you can show higher profits across the Atlantic (and the Pacific which is another story).
If UA cancelled a bunch of underperforming flights, it might actually end up with profit margins but it is precisely because it has route planners that think like you that routes are trophies rather than a means to generate profits that UA underperforms DL where it counts - which is on the bottom line.
no need to respond, Mark.
You have told us that you love that CF doesn't bother to reply to me. Have the self-control to do the same.
Tim, all I want to know is, if, according to you, UA makes less than DL in TATL and TPAC, but was more profitable than DL in Q1 and in the same range in Q2 (when excluding the over $500 million one time charge UA paid for FA retro)….
Where does UA outperform DL in order to make up all that lost ground which you say exists (though have never, not once, provided actual data to back that up)?
see, you have to pick out a single quarter but are incapable of admitting that for the first HALF of 2025, UA most certainly did not outperform DL financially.
and that $500 million charge IS the underpayment that the FAs didn't get and that boosted UA's profits.
UA's 2nd quarter net income was less than half of DL's - a far bigger gap than the $500 million special charge
for the first half of...
see, you have to pick out a single quarter but are incapable of admitting that for the first HALF of 2025, UA most certainly did not outperform DL financially.
and that $500 million charge IS the underpayment that the FAs didn't get and that boosted UA's profits.
UA's 2nd quarter net income was less than half of DL's - a far bigger gap than the $500 million special charge
for the first half of 2025, UA's net profit is $1 billion less than DL's.
And analysts are not expecting UA to outperform DL in the 3rd quarter - they didn't last year even w/ DL's own $500 million or so charge due to CrowdStrike.
UA is not going to post over $1 billion more in profits in the 4th quarter which means that 2025 will be yet another year when UA underperforms DL despite underpaying multiple workgroups and tens of thousands of employees.
If you can't read actual income statements available on both carriers' websites, then you really shouldn't be commenting.
You make it so easy, Mark.
Tim, UA outperformed DL in Q1 and did not underperform DL by $1 billion in Q2, so not sure where you get your figures from.
And you continue to throw out profits and losses by region, without any data to back it up.
So it’s an easy request: post profit figures for UA and DL for each region of the world, including domestic. You seem to have these figures at your fingertips, so...
Tim, UA outperformed DL in Q1 and did not underperform DL by $1 billion in Q2, so not sure where you get your figures from.
And you continue to throw out profits and losses by region, without any data to back it up.
So it’s an easy request: post profit figures for UA and DL for each region of the world, including domestic. You seem to have these figures at your fingertips, so I’m sure the answer will be posted very soon.
And you think DL is the only carrier that adjusts its network? All airlines do this, but DL cut four high-profile routes from NYC, where they’re supposedly the strongest airline, suggesting they’re not as strong as you think.
Apart from routes cut due to geopolitical or Russian airspace issues, Bergen is the international flight that UA cut since the pandemic.
DL does best in fortress hubs with limited competition. Where they have significant competition, they don’t do as well. That’s why UA, successfully competing in all hubs, is more profitable from airline operations. It’s much harder to compete successfully in hubs than to get a credit card revenue agreement, though UA will have that soon too.
DL takes part in the unprofitable “strategic” flying Scott Kirby talked about. Adding LGW in response to B6, starting BCN and FCO from SEA in response to AS, LAX to ORD and HKG in response to UA.
DL’s route planning is in response to what other airlines do. Tail wagging the dog.
Kirby says UA doesn’t do that, since United Next is working. They will soon have 100 widebody departures a day from EWR, as the remaining hubs continue to grow.
Aren’t you excited to see what UA’s next major route reveal will be?
YAWNS.
The widebody argument is getting old. I look to UAL to get me to my destinations no matter what kind of airplane. United’s network is unmatched and eliminates the need to search anyone else.
Ps. Kayak eliminated the most profitable airline search filter for flights
Gee, I can pay for J to Porto. I can use EWR or JFK (ugh). I can fly in the worst widebody J on DL's 763, but get a window seat with direct aisle access. I can fly a UA 757 next to a stranger. The widebody argument isvrelevant to those of us who don't paint airlines as black or white.
Tim, you’re also making a huge deal out of DL flying to Porto, after canceling four other routes from NYC.
You do know that UA flies to *five* cities in Portugal, right?
So a little perspective is in order, before you think DL is dominating any region. Though DL can get pax to all those cities served by UA by making them connect in AMS or CDG. The DL pax, especially all of the...
Tim, you’re also making a huge deal out of DL flying to Porto, after canceling four other routes from NYC.
You do know that UA flies to *five* cities in Portugal, right?
So a little perspective is in order, before you think DL is dominating any region. Though DL can get pax to all those cities served by UA by making them connect in AMS or CDG. The DL pax, especially all of the business class pax, will love that connection after getting off an overnight international flight.
And we’re still waiting for your detailed financial breakdown of all regions in the world, including domestic, as has been requested so many times in all of the other threads where you have made claims without data.
Mark,
as usual, you love to find the speck in someone else's eye but can't see the log in your own.
AA and DL serve far more of S. America from NYC including via DL's JV partner (of which UA has none) but you can't admit that every carrier has strengths and weaknesses.
GVA is the only market that DL is removing from its own network while it is adding three more -...
Mark,
as usual, you love to find the speck in someone else's eye but can't see the log in your own.
AA and DL serve far more of S. America from NYC including via DL's JV partner (of which UA has none) but you can't admit that every carrier has strengths and weaknesses.
GVA is the only market that DL is removing from its own network while it is adding three more - Porto, Malta and Sardinia, the latter two of which UA doesn't even serve.
and you still can't accept that DL makes hundreds of millions more across the Atlantic than UA and it is precisely because DL has a much higher threshold for financial performance that UA. A whole lot of UA routes simply don't generate profits comparable to UA's systemwide level of profitability.
The sooner you can accept that UA runs an inferior business to DL, the sooner you can accept that all of those dots and lines may make you feel good as an avgeek but they do nothing to advance UA's goals as a for-profit company.
And LAX-HKG and JFK-OPO as well as LAX-ORD raise the question of how many more UA markets DL is going to set up shop in.
UA's vaunted network in your mind becomes a whole lot less profitable if DL decides it wants a piece of it.
"AA and DL serve far more of S. America from NYC including via DL's JV partner (of which UA has none) but you can't admit that every carrier has strengths and weaknesses."
Look who changed her tune, Tim. You do learn and adjust your statements.
Doesn't change much. Delta is STILL the SMALLEST carrier between the US and South American and NYC and South America.
AND THEY HAVE A JV but they're still...
"AA and DL serve far more of S. America from NYC including via DL's JV partner (of which UA has none) but you can't admit that every carrier has strengths and weaknesses."
Look who changed her tune, Tim. You do learn and adjust your statements.
Doesn't change much. Delta is STILL the SMALLEST carrier between the US and South American and NYC and South America.
AND THEY HAVE A JV but they're still the smallest. They're actually that weak to South America from NYC.
God, you're just pathetic.
what is pathetic is that you think that Argentina and Rio de Janeiro don't matter because UA doesn't serve them.
and it is more pathetic how often you pull out your employer-paid Cirium account to argue against me when you can win by 2% but clam up when you know full well that I am right - such as that DL at ATL generates far more ASMs to S. America than UA does at...
what is pathetic is that you think that Argentina and Rio de Janeiro don't matter because UA doesn't serve them.
and it is more pathetic how often you pull out your employer-paid Cirium account to argue against me when you can win by 2% but clam up when you know full well that I am right - such as that DL at ATL generates far more ASMs to S. America than UA does at IAH
and it is most pathetic that you cite CF and his practice of ignoring people he doesn't want to engage but you are incapable of doing the same.
You have no self-control, you are threatened by my presence, and you lose over and over again on facts because beating someone is more important than simply engaging in conversations with other anonymous people on the internet.
Tim, since you still haven’t provided the specific break down of profits by each region, including domestic, for UA and DL, I’m assuming you either don’t have it or won’t provide it because it contradicts your “facts”.
Either way, it confirms that you throw out inaccurate numbers without any supporting data to try making points that absolutely nobody believes.
I don't need to provide the breakdown.
The DOT does USING DATA WHICH EACH AIRLINE PROVIDES.
but you and Max think you know better than the DOT and UA's accounting dept.
And ALL publicly traded US carriers do provide quarterly earnings - which is exactly how it is possible to know that your statement about UA's higher profits is cherrypicked and unsustainable.
It is you that throw out a higher profit in one...
I don't need to provide the breakdown.
The DOT does USING DATA WHICH EACH AIRLINE PROVIDES.
but you and Max think you know better than the DOT and UA's accounting dept.
And ALL publicly traded US carriers do provide quarterly earnings - which is exactly how it is possible to know that your statement about UA's higher profits is cherrypicked and unsustainable.
It is you that throw out a higher profit in one quarter while ignoring that they more than lost that advantage in the 2nd quarter by a very wide margin and aren't expected to regain it for the rest of the year - in which UA's profits even on a systemwide basis WILL significantly trail DL's.
The whole issue, once again, is that you, not me, wear United's identity so deeply on your soul that you are incapable of admitting the truth if it is counter to your United superiority complex even when it stares you straight in the face and everyone else can see it.
Yes you do need to provide it if you’re going to incorrectly reference them all the time.
We already know you try to take data that each airline reports differently to make an incorrect point.
When you refuse to provide it, it strengthens our belief that you’re distorting data to make points that aren’t true.
you are beyond laughable. and to use Max' words, pathetic.
You and Max manage to find all kinds of data to argue against me when you want to prove me wrong but you suddenly become blind, deaf and dumb when the data I cite proves you wrong and UA NOT the winner.
How can you find first quarter profits for both DL and UA but not be able to find their 2nd quarter earnings releases?
...you are beyond laughable. and to use Max' words, pathetic.
You and Max manage to find all kinds of data to argue against me when you want to prove me wrong but you suddenly become blind, deaf and dumb when the data I cite proves you wrong and UA NOT the winner.
How can you find first quarter profits for both DL and UA but not be able to find their 2nd quarter earnings releases?
You know full well where to find "The Bureau of Transportation Statistics Net Income ALL US carriers all regions" and if you don't, just google exactly those words. And then use the dropdowns.
and you will see that DL generates more profit on a smaller international network than UA; and UA also has a lower profit on its domestic system, but that is understandable since UA is so much smaller that DL in the domestic market.
You used to be fun to debate with. You at least refrain from using inflammatory language - for which I commend you.
But you either are a wholesale troll or you have United's Tulip so far up your backside that your critical thinking skills have been rendered unusable.
Why is it so hard for you to admit that nobody or nothing can be all things for all people?
The difference between me and you is that I I can look at the future and admit the reality of the present. You cannot admit current reality and cling to a future that will turn the present on its head.
I pity you. I really do, Mark.
Thank you for pity!
I’m not looking for overall profits.
I’m looking for this elusive breakdown of regional profits that you keep quoting. Give us the exact numbers from each region that will add up to the total profit.
But you won’t and you never will. Because to state where DL supposedly outperforms would also reveal where they underperform.
of course you aren't looking for profits and neither is United. They are focused on size.
Problem is that UA is a for-profit company which means that putting dots and lines on a route map IS NOT what it should be most focused on doing.
and you know exactly where to find profits by global region.
You just pretend it doesn't exist so you don't have to admit that UA underperforms DL.
...
of course you aren't looking for profits and neither is United. They are focused on size.
Problem is that UA is a for-profit company which means that putting dots and lines on a route map IS NOT what it should be most focused on doing.
and you know exactly where to find profits by global region.
You just pretend it doesn't exist so you don't have to admit that UA underperforms DL.
just like you pretend you can't find 2nd quarter earnings and won't be able to find 3rd quarter and full year earnings for 2025 but can only find 1st quarter when UA had a larger profit due to its underpaid employees.
You just can't admit it.
UA does a whole lot of things well and has turned itself around
BUt it flies 10% more ASMs than DL but generates less profits.
Being a more profitable airline is not something UA does.