There’s a startup that’s looking to revolutionize the way that people travel between cities in Europe, while offering a high level of comfort (thanks to JonNYC for flagging this). Will this catch on, or does this sound better in theory than in practice?
In this post:
The basics of Twiliner’s overnight luxury bus service
Twiliner will be launching operations in November 2025, and the idea is that the company will be offering Europe’s first overnight bus service with lie flat beds. Much of Europe already has great connectivity between cities, in the form of existing rail, air, and bus service.
As Twiliner sees it, what doesn’t exist is a comfortable way to travel between European cities overnight, given that most rail connections operate during the day, and most existing bus services are quite uncomfortable.
So Twiliner will operate special buses with just 21 seats each, in a 1-2 configuration. There will be 18 seats on the upper deck and three seats on the lower deck.
All seats convert into fully flat beds, and feature USB power ports, a reading light, and a tray table for working or dining. The bus also offers complimentary high speed Wi-Fi.
There’s also a toilet, a changing room, and a snack bar onboard. Coffee and water are free, while other items are available for purchase.
The company highlights the benefits of traveling by bus rather than by air, including traveling from city center to city center, avoiding the cost of overnight accommodation, and saving on emissions. The company claims it saves around 85% emissions compared to flying, as the bus service runs on HVO diesel, a renewal fuel from waste fats and vegetable oils.
Seats are currently on sale as of mid-November 2025, with the first route being from Zurich to Amsterdam. The service departs at 9:30PM, with stops in Basel, Luxembourg, Brussels, and Rotterdam, prior to arriving in Amsterdam at 9:45AM. Fares start at CHF 169 (211 USD), and include one checked bag and one carry-on.
The company hopes to grow to 25 routes by 2028, so it has quite the ambitions. The aim seems to be to mostly operate in markets of up to 1,000 kilometers. Each bus has two drivers, who switch throughout the night for safety. The only stops are brief stops at each of the destinations along the way, plus any stops required for the drivers to rotate.
I like the concept of Twiliner’s bus service, in theory…
What’s innovative about Twiliner is the level of comfort that it’s offering on bus service within Europe. For example, FlixBus is already a major bus operator in Europe, and the company serves plenty of routes (including Zurich to Amsterdam) with a similar schedule. It’s a fraction of the cost, but also a fraction as comfortable.
I like the concept of Twiliner. I mean, spending the night in a flat bed on a bus sounds sort of charming, in a way. But here’s the thing — I think it sounds better in theory than in practice, at least for those of us who are light sleepers.
I think I’d book this envisioning “oh great, I’m going to get eight hours of sleep.” But then I’d probably end up waking up every 15 minutes, between the movement, the stops, other people snoring, etc. If you’re a deep sleeper, then maybe this is the perfect solution for you. But we’re all different in that sense.
The challenge here is that Twiliner is going after fairly price insensitive customers who value comfort, but who don’t want to fly.
If I were a business traveler and had an important meeting the next day, I’d realistically rather take the last flight of the night to my destination and spend a night in a proper bed at a hotel, rather than chancing on it being able to get sleep on a bus.
Bottom line
Twiliner is launching an innovative luxury bus service, which will initially operate as of November 2025 between Zurich and Amsterdam. While Europe already offers good air and rail connectivity, Twiliner thinks there’s a need for comfortable overnight transportation between cities, since that’s not currently offered.
I have to give Twiliner credit for coming up with a unique concept. It just seems to me like a fairly niche offering, given the price point. I hope this works out, though as someone who is a light sleeper when not in my bed at home, this concept probably isn’t for me…
What do you make of the Twiliner concept? Would you book this bus service?
With all the stops, only need a few people for each possible combination of origin and destination (versus how many people fly these cities), and the bus is sold out.
so many of the commenters seem completely out of touch. its shockingly dumb. "ams isn't that expensive, a hostel is 50 euro"...ummm what? r u 21? r u poor? this isn't for you.
This would be perfect for my elderly parents, bags loaded easily by staff, my mum hates/is very scared of flying but will do it but this would ease her for not too bad travel and the doubles look comfy and nice...
so many of the commenters seem completely out of touch. its shockingly dumb. "ams isn't that expensive, a hostel is 50 euro"...ummm what? r u 21? r u poor? this isn't for you.
This would be perfect for my elderly parents, bags loaded easily by staff, my mum hates/is very scared of flying but will do it but this would ease her for not too bad travel and the doubles look comfy and nice enough, and they save a night of hotels (which I book for my parents and during peak summer this year between brussels/ams/London was 200-250 eu a day...its my parents and we have standards and those were 4-5 star finds but Lon and brussels were 3-4 but with breakfast and great locations), the demo isn't value seekers....wtf. its like these are people who dont understand why someone would buy an Hermes scarf, or have an iPhone vs Samsung, or pay for fast track at airport --- its not YOU. ur irrelevant
I love idea of new premium, comfy ways of travel. and thank god it would keep away highly critical non accustomed to nice things or their cost like the interesting commenters here.
why I love flying biz through europe - most locals would never and thats why one zooms through fast track or premium lanes while the rest wait ....a lot longer.
all these things matter for discerning traveler. esp elderly or people who have dear of flying or dont want to deal with that and just cruise to destination.
clearly research done and there a market. just not for those people in this thread. lol....100 avg eu for a hotel in europe...yeah, no. well, not for those who dont have access to certain things us Americans likely have more than....wink wink...status, points and some even owner or employee benefits from investment. buh bye
Also great for very tall people, where in Europe even business class has little legroom.
These sort of services do very well in Japan ...
Generally not with Tourists
Willer being the largest operator
At first I thought your article was going to say this is aimed at backpackers, who are always looking for cheaper, easier ways to backpack across Europe. But then I saw the price! As much as I like the idea, I really can’t see how this will take off. Who in Europe is going to choose to spend 12 hours on a bus for €200, when they can be in a different city on the...
At first I thought your article was going to say this is aimed at backpackers, who are always looking for cheaper, easier ways to backpack across Europe. But then I saw the price! As much as I like the idea, I really can’t see how this will take off. Who in Europe is going to choose to spend 12 hours on a bus for €200, when they can be in a different city on the other side of the continent in 2 hours, for €20 with low-cost European airlines? Many of these airlines do early morning flights for even cheaper, getting you to your destination by 8:30! There’s so much competition for travel in Europe, it seems a difficult market to crack with this type of idea, as lovely as it looks!
These "executive" class buses exist in Chile and Argentina and they're great.
For a 2 hour flight, door-to-door time is typically 5 hours
There's something fishy about this one. The Bus version of Beond Airlines?
I mean, why start with Amsterdam where you have numerous flights a day that cost about €200 Rtn or around €350 last minute? Then ZRH & AMS are also rather close to the city center and trains to the airport don't cost much. Also AMS isn't that expensive. You get IBIS or hostels etc for under €50 per night. This doesn't make much sense.
Flying requires much longer than just the flight time. Bus stations are much closer to city centers, and if you're just going to be sleeping on the bus, you end up saving the cost of a night of accommodation. The actual time spent traveling is "minimal" since you're sleeping anyways.
This is a tried and true product in Japan, and very frequently fully booked a week before departure. I think it does have a shot in the European market.
If you consider the abundance of sleeper buses in South East Asia then I think this concept has legs however I feel that by going this luxurious then they risk alienating a lot of the potential market. There definitely is a market for a sleeper bus in Europe but I think it needs to be a more utilitarian bunk bed setup
I wish them well, but this hasn’t worked anywhere in North America, and I haven’t seen these services mentioned elsewhere in the comments.
Cabin: Overnight from SF to LA - failed
The Jet: Overnight from DC/NY/BOS - shuttered
Napaway: Overnight from DC to Nashville - is no more
It’s notable that these services all operated nom-stop, thus removing both potential customers and potential disturbances during the night. I don’t know WHY these failed,...
I wish them well, but this hasn’t worked anywhere in North America, and I haven’t seen these services mentioned elsewhere in the comments.
Cabin: Overnight from SF to LA - failed
The Jet: Overnight from DC/NY/BOS - shuttered
Napaway: Overnight from DC to Nashville - is no more
It’s notable that these services all operated nom-stop, thus removing both potential customers and potential disturbances during the night. I don’t know WHY these failed, and the business model seems to work fine in South America and South Asia. I think it’s a great concept and I don’t have concerns about driver alertness, or road conditions waking me up. I’d be curious to know why specifically they didn’t work out. On the surface it appears they’ve all pivoted to charter only.
My guess would be that Americans, for the most part, are allergic to any form of public transit. And they consider long-distance busses to basically be Greyhound, and therefore for poor people that can't afford a car or can't afford to fly. Though if I remember right I think there is actually an existing bus service that isn't luxury/lie flat but does have nicer seats than the typical highway coach operating out of either NYC...
My guess would be that Americans, for the most part, are allergic to any form of public transit. And they consider long-distance busses to basically be Greyhound, and therefore for poor people that can't afford a car or can't afford to fly. Though if I remember right I think there is actually an existing bus service that isn't luxury/lie flat but does have nicer seats than the typical highway coach operating out of either NYC or Boston to other destinations on the Northeast Corridor that does pretty well, so it's possible the ones you listed just couldn't compete.
I generally agree with you. The “bus” has a negative aura to many (not just Americans but especially there).
There are some luxury buses in the Northeast that do well, and Megabus/Flixbus seems to do very well in California and the Northwest. It seems to be the sleeper buses specifically that don’t make it.
The "bus" is cheap.
The price parity between bus and flight is larger South America and South Asia so it works there.
Overnight bus is for cheap travelers who don't want to pay for hotels.
Affordable LCC made sure most people who can afford a hotel will fly.
The question these operatprs have to ask customers is how much cheaper it has to be to convince people to get stuck 12+ hours in a bus instead of a 2 hour flight.
lol. omg. anything related to public transit cant be comped to things in usa. doesnt mean Americans won't do it in europe. bc we all want high speed transit between major cities here but oil and gas, airline, auto industry lobbies and road/toll companies have bought there way into ingraining most to not even understand the benefits. it will happen soon enough and not just in NE and Cali. Texas could happen soon with new...
lol. omg. anything related to public transit cant be comped to things in usa. doesnt mean Americans won't do it in europe. bc we all want high speed transit between major cities here but oil and gas, airline, auto industry lobbies and road/toll companies have bought there way into ingraining most to not even understand the benefits. it will happen soon enough and not just in NE and Cali. Texas could happen soon with new regime.
but to comp to usa attitudes is just ....smh.
How would one pay for snacks or beers at the little snack bar? Is it on the honor system? Will people hand their Euros to the driver?
Years ago I used a similar service between Buenos Aires and Iguazu Falls. It too had a 1-2 layout with a flat bed, but also included a free dinner, some alcohol and a bus attendant. It was surprisingly comfortable. I’d gladly do it again.
Yes exactly my first thought. Did the same in 2007. I remember clearly the border control guard coming on board going through Paraguay briefly. Being the only Brit on board he had fun at my expense with some comment in Spanish which I had no clue about. I just smiled and hoped I didn’t end up being some awful statistic.
It's is an innovative concept, but from a European standpoint...
Look at this Tokyo-Osaka overnight Dream Sleeper bus service: https://www.kanto-bus.co.jp/english/nightway/dream-sleeper/.
It's more luxurious and even less dense at a very reasonable price. On the other hand, they don't have comparable overnight rail competition.
I wish the company much success. Plenty of European capitals were linked by sleeper trains, but the majority have been axed years ago, like Madrid-Lisbon, Rome-Paris...
It's is an innovative concept, but from a European standpoint...
Look at this Tokyo-Osaka overnight Dream Sleeper bus service: https://www.kanto-bus.co.jp/english/nightway/dream-sleeper/.
It's more luxurious and even less dense at a very reasonable price. On the other hand, they don't have comparable overnight rail competition.
I wish the company much success. Plenty of European capitals were linked by sleeper trains, but the majority have been axed years ago, like Madrid-Lisbon, Rome-Paris...
That's... actually more expensive and takes longer than getting a private room on the Sunrise sleeper if you're traveling Osaka -> Tokyo. It makes more sense going Tokyo -> Osaka because the westbound Sunrise service doesn't stop at Osaka, its first stop is Himeji. But even then, as somebody who has actually done this, it's still faster and cheaper to take the Sunrise to Himeji and then get on the Sanyo Shinkansen for 30 minutes...
That's... actually more expensive and takes longer than getting a private room on the Sunrise sleeper if you're traveling Osaka -> Tokyo. It makes more sense going Tokyo -> Osaka because the westbound Sunrise service doesn't stop at Osaka, its first stop is Himeji. But even then, as somebody who has actually done this, it's still faster and cheaper to take the Sunrise to Himeji and then get on the Sanyo Shinkansen for 30 minutes to backtrack to Osaka. I can't imagine that bus service is actually profitable, even with the lower cost of living and lower wages in Japan.
Willer busses being the largest operator, has done that track for years in Japan
@GSHLGB
In Willer's case, their product is both denser and much cheaper than that Kanto Bus Dream Sleeper service. Willer's overnight services also serve more than just Tokaido route destinations, and not to mention the price point for the nicer Willer night bus seats is about what you'd pay for the less comfortable nobi nobi seats on the Sunrise for Tokyo - Okayama or Osaka - Tokyo.
Though looking at the Sunrise fares again,...
@GSHLGB
In Willer's case, their product is both denser and much cheaper than that Kanto Bus Dream Sleeper service. Willer's overnight services also serve more than just Tokaido route destinations, and not to mention the price point for the nicer Willer night bus seats is about what you'd pay for the less comfortable nobi nobi seats on the Sunrise for Tokyo - Okayama or Osaka - Tokyo.
Though looking at the Sunrise fares again, it looks like the solo cabin prices have hiked a good bit since I last took it in 2022, to the point that that Kanto Bus product is a decent bit cheaper than the cheapest solo cabin and about 20-40% more than the nobi nobi seats, so I'll have to retract my above statement. Those Sunrise fares changed a lot since my last trip.
The advantage is you avoid one night of hotel expenses. In Europe €200 - €300 is not unusual. If you can sleep on the bus and if there are no issues with certification due to safety concerns some might find that this is a good option
You can spend thousands if you want, but my running average is well under €100 per night, and I don't exactly stay in hostels. Anything more than that may not be outrageously expensive per se but usually includes a premium either for staying in a really good hotel, sticking a specific chain (Hyatts and Marriotts especially as they try and milk Americans who are unfamiliar with the local market) and/or very central location. I find...
You can spend thousands if you want, but my running average is well under €100 per night, and I don't exactly stay in hostels. Anything more than that may not be outrageously expensive per se but usually includes a premium either for staying in a really good hotel, sticking a specific chain (Hyatts and Marriotts especially as they try and milk Americans who are unfamiliar with the local market) and/or very central location. I find the sweet spot often is halfway between the airport and the city centre, particularly if there's a big expo/conference centre (as long as it's not hosting a big event!).
I don't think that many of the people who are happy to spend €300 a night on hotel accommodation are willing to countenance travelling by coach... unless it's an environmental virtue signalling thing of course!
Leisure travellers may want to stay more centrally where prices are higher. But agree, an overnight bus might be a hard sell - who is the target customer?. Backpackers? In Asia where long, less luxurious overnignt bus travel is more common, bus companies often compete on how quickly they arrive at the final destination. Kind of like F1 racing, with passengers, and almost as dangerous.
21 passengers at 200 euros per passenger = 4200...
Leisure travellers may want to stay more centrally where prices are higher. But agree, an overnight bus might be a hard sell - who is the target customer?. Backpackers? In Asia where long, less luxurious overnignt bus travel is more common, bus companies often compete on how quickly they arrive at the final destination. Kind of like F1 racing, with passengers, and almost as dangerous.
21 passengers at 200 euros per passenger = 4200 euros. Subtract fuel, drivers wages and benefits, insurance, bus depreciation, tolls, booking overhead, etc. Unclear how much profit margin there is even at 100 percent utilization. What happens to the bus during the day? Possible return trip or another route but with beds not practical.
200-300 euros would be a full service hotel. If you're talking about saving one night then you're targeting a hotel that just needs to be marginally more comfortable than that bus for 1 night before you move on to the hotel that you really intend to stay at. Which means any old hotel under 100eur will do.
I feel lie flat seats make much more sense on trains.
There is a German startup (Luna Rail) which has developed a much more space efficient concept.
They make use of the high ceiling of a railcar by basically stacking Reverse herringbone seats and of underfloor space.
Wish this concept will become reality.
https://luna-rail.com/
@Ben Maybe it is worth to cover
Luna-rail does look excellent - thank you for mentioning that.
I think the problem is convincing people to spend that much on a coach even if it is a sleeper and as comfortable as this. I think a lot of people have a mental barrier in Europe on this - we're used to sleeper trains, and they're so popular they sell out way in advance on services like the NightJet that criss-cross Europe. People generally prefer trains as they're more spacious and comfortable and I've...
I think the problem is convincing people to spend that much on a coach even if it is a sleeper and as comfortable as this. I think a lot of people have a mental barrier in Europe on this - we're used to sleeper trains, and they're so popular they sell out way in advance on services like the NightJet that criss-cross Europe. People generally prefer trains as they're more spacious and comfortable and I've had decent nights rest on them - I can't imagine you get that same quality of sleep on a coach for a variety of reasons so in that sense I am sort of in agreement with Ben. Taking all of that into account, the price point is too high and needs to be a lot lower.
That fully booking of the trains may be the opportunity for Twiliner.
It's difficult to add more capacity with trains (lots of different counterparties involced)
Whereas if Twiliner gets to a critical mass, adding new routes, or extra 'buses on same routes, will be a doddle.
Am I the only one thinking that seat density seems way to low to turn a profit on an 8-10 trip even with the 160-180 CHF fairs? Part of what makes services like Nightjet work is that you have 1-2 engineers and a conductor operating a train pulling hundreds of people, whereas here you have a driver hauling... 21 people. I did a sleeper train from Prague to Budapest back in 2020 and the fanciest...
Am I the only one thinking that seat density seems way to low to turn a profit on an 8-10 trip even with the 160-180 CHF fairs? Part of what makes services like Nightjet work is that you have 1-2 engineers and a conductor operating a train pulling hundreds of people, whereas here you have a driver hauling... 21 people. I did a sleeper train from Prague to Budapest back in 2020 and the fanciest shared cabin (with ensuite) was 70 USD. This new bus service just doesn't seem like it'll be able to compete with rail or air.
KLM and Swiss between them have 11 flights a day for this city pair, six of them with a 737 or A320. So what’s the market, maybe 1,600 passengers? To sell 21 seats on two departures, all they need is 3% of them. I see this as appealing to the 25-35 age group, budget travelers who have graduated from hostels but don’t want to pay Hilton for another night if it can be avoided.
I...
KLM and Swiss between them have 11 flights a day for this city pair, six of them with a 737 or A320. So what’s the market, maybe 1,600 passengers? To sell 21 seats on two departures, all they need is 3% of them. I see this as appealing to the 25-35 age group, budget travelers who have graduated from hostels but don’t want to pay Hilton for another night if it can be avoided.
I would take one of these on a daytime run. Watch some scenery, nap, repeat. Arrive at a decent check-in time.
The majority of those passengers will be connecting to/from another destination which could be as near as Paris or as far as Perth.
@Ross - Even less than 3%.
The route is Amsterdam-Rotterdam-(sleep)-Basel-Zurich so the addressable market is larger than just the one city pair.
A big difference between this bus service and an overnight flight in business class is the stops: there are several in the middle of the night, with people getting on and off. While there are distractions in J (meal service, etc), the airline can at least time the meal service so that you get an uninterrupted few hours of quiet/dark time.
In fact, people entering and exiting your sleeping cabin is one of the primary...
A big difference between this bus service and an overnight flight in business class is the stops: there are several in the middle of the night, with people getting on and off. While there are distractions in J (meal service, etc), the airline can at least time the meal service so that you get an uninterrupted few hours of quiet/dark time.
In fact, people entering and exiting your sleeping cabin is one of the primary problems I have with sleeper trains. Otherwise it's a great concept if done right. If bus services like this focus on nonstop routes, they have a slight edge over sleeper trains, imho.
Yes - I think they should drop the Luxembourg passenger stops - and have no passengers joining/leaving between 23:00 and 07:00.
Megabus Gold Sleepliner tried this in the UK between Scotland and London, and it wasn't successful. For the market that want to travel at night, there's a sleeper train.
People pay 2-3-4k plus to catch luxury trains in Australia. I think trains are way better than buses but for $200 this makes sense. I’d try it!!!
I mean yall (including me) book mistake fares to random places to spend 17 hours in a Cathay flat bed… just to turn around and fly back. Happy as Larry with the experience even though it’s at 2.5 star hotel room at best. Why not achieve it on a bus??
I installed a reverse herringbone seat in my living room to cut out all the middlemen. Enjoy drinking $6 bottles of prosecco in it to emulate the Polaris experience
Haha brilliant!!!!
Did you put a door on it and or shove it flush against the wall to reduce leg room??
Well, are they aware of the certification challenges? There's a very good reason we don't see sleeper buses on EU roads, whereas these have existed for decades in LatAm and Asia: it's not technically legal to travel on EU roads in a lie-flat position due to safety concerns (obvious exceptions include ambulance transfers and the like, but those are special cases with specialized equipment).
Even buses equipped with berths for spare drivers can't normally...
Well, are they aware of the certification challenges? There's a very good reason we don't see sleeper buses on EU roads, whereas these have existed for decades in LatAm and Asia: it's not technically legal to travel on EU roads in a lie-flat position due to safety concerns (obvious exceptions include ambulance transfers and the like, but those are special cases with specialized equipment).
Even buses equipped with berths for spare drivers can't normally deploy them while in motion.
And yes, there's a lot of unfulfilled potential in sleeper trains due to their cost and operational complexity. There are some early attempts to disrupt the market, but it's early to call.
When the UK was in the EU there was a lie-flat overnight bus service called Megabus Gold. It was discontinued due to low profitability but you can still find images of it online. How was that able to operate legally?
Lie-flat used to be allowed on coaches (and was pretty common on long distance holiday coach services between western Europe and Spain), but at some point in time the EU vehicle certification rules for buses changed. If I recall well the vehicles used by Megabus were grandfathered in because their certification predated the rules change (UK was still part of the EU back then) so they could continue offering this service while no new operators...
Lie-flat used to be allowed on coaches (and was pretty common on long distance holiday coach services between western Europe and Spain), but at some point in time the EU vehicle certification rules for buses changed. If I recall well the vehicles used by Megabus were grandfathered in because their certification predated the rules change (UK was still part of the EU back then) so they could continue offering this service while no new operators were entering this market.
As mentioned by @Throwawayname there are still operators offering wider seats such as Alsa and RegioJet, but this is not very common. On Flixbus you can pay extra to block the seat next to you which is a concept more akin to intra-EU airline business class.
Given how attractive this will be to the premium leisure market - I think this stands a good chance of being a commercial success - a bit like the Caledonian Sleeper trains from London to Scotland.
I think they'll do great during peak tourist seasons, but I don't think they'll have many people buying €180 fares to travel on a rainy Tuesday in November.
The thing is there are already Nightjet sleeper trains operating on that route, so it represents a significant downgrade to go from a train to a bus.
In Chile, Turbus has for over a decade offered an overnight Salón Premium service on certain high-demand routes. Here is a 360° seat tour Turbus provides on their website:
https://landing-premium.turbus.cl/360.html
The last time I took it was eight years ago, and it’s a great option for traveling to Pucón, since the nearest airport with commercial flights is about 1.5 hours away. I had no more trouble sleeping than I would on a lie-flat business class seat.
I love this idea! Don’t forget that a Y one-way AMS - ZRH is exactly €180 one-way with checked luggage on Swiss, the same price as this bus. You barely get any legroom, but you do get a pretty shitty experience. You get a lot more value with this bus since you’ll actually see some awesome scenery. Lot’s of Europeans are not necessarily looking for “the fastest way” + it’s more eco friendly as well.
Very tempted to book this experience..
Thing is I´d argue most people wouldn´t pay that much for that flight - take an hours train to Basel (which when you consider how spread out Switzerland is, isn´t really that different for most people vs getting to Zurich) and you can fly it with easyJet for €30 before a checked bag.
Kyara, you lost your credibility when you mentioned ’SleezyJet’, sorry.
What awesome scenery are you going to see at night?
Seems cool but I'm not trusting a business driver at this time of night to operate a bus, stay awake or not be distracted.
But you will trust aircrew who could be fatigued from flying through several time zones, engaging in off duty party activities, possibly including recreational drugs and definitely alcohol?
Seriously Alonzo?
Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it folks!
Like any new venture, there are those who are only too willing to dismiss it out of hand. Those who can see some advantages for themselves depending upon their needs. Finally those who will take a longer term approach to wait and see.
From some of the comments it is clear that there are those who have probably not travelled long distances across Europe by...
Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it folks!
Like any new venture, there are those who are only too willing to dismiss it out of hand. Those who can see some advantages for themselves depending upon their needs. Finally those who will take a longer term approach to wait and see.
From some of the comments it is clear that there are those who have probably not travelled long distances across Europe by road. The motorway, autobahn, interstate or turnpike roads (which ever term one is accustomed to) are very much suited to coach travel. Boring for a driver, however, smooth and devoid of the stop/start impression some might like to portray.
Having experienced train travel though out Europe, north into Scandinavia, south into North Africa, east to the Syrian border and many places between, the idea of this proposed mode of transportation certainly has legs.
Thank you Ben, for this to our attention …. every day is a school day!
This isn't a 'unique concept', there are lots of similar services available in places like Brazil, Mexico, Thailand etc.
It's not even the first service of its type in Europe. Megabus Gold used to offer some kind of flat bed coach between Scotland and London, while ALSA also have some luxury services with big seats but no flat beds.
I don't think that the economics work at that sort of pricing, but it could...
This isn't a 'unique concept', there are lots of similar services available in places like Brazil, Mexico, Thailand etc.
It's not even the first service of its type in Europe. Megabus Gold used to offer some kind of flat bed coach between Scotland and London, while ALSA also have some luxury services with big seats but no flat beds.
I don't think that the economics work at that sort of pricing, but it could be a compelling alternative to other means of transport if they managed to find a way to break even at around €100 each way and sell tickets for €120 or so.
Are you serious??? With dodgy 'back-of-the-envelope' math like that, Twiliner must be breathing a sigh of relief you DON'T work for them. FFS!
There's no 'math' in my comment, only an educated guess that they won't be able to sell many tickets at €200ish apiece and that the service would likely sell a lot better with a price tag nearer €100- basic price elasticity stuff.
I have no view as to whether their operating costs are, or can be, contained to a level that would allow them to operate sustainably while selling tickets at a price that people are prepared to pay.
Megabus Gold was nothing like these. It was like like bunks stacked up on each other.
As someone already mentioned there’s a nightjet service for a far lower price and equally I just don’t know who this serves. In Central Europe they’ll have to compete against Nighjet’s pretty extensive network and equally FlixBus.
Geographically the only place I see this working is connections between Central Europe and Spain and Portugal but the pricing would need to be far more attractive. There’s a case maybe for Eastern Europe and the Balkans...
As someone already mentioned there’s a nightjet service for a far lower price and equally I just don’t know who this serves. In Central Europe they’ll have to compete against Nighjet’s pretty extensive network and equally FlixBus.
Geographically the only place I see this working is connections between Central Europe and Spain and Portugal but the pricing would need to be far more attractive. There’s a case maybe for Eastern Europe and the Balkans particularly to secondary cities with no rail connections and limited air travel but again there will be plenty of local operators who will do the same route at a fraction of the cost.
I agree that the train is preferable where the route is offered, ,and I'm glad to see that Nightjet is expanding.
But vastly easier to expand route network on 'buses than trains.
And if they can make it work financially with 21 seats, then all sorts of thin routes are feasible.
If they pick up from 3 locations 20:00-22:00 and drop off at 3 locations 06:00-09:00 then there are even more.
Not something I would use, but I know a fair number of people with flight fear, who this would be well suited for, as an alternative for trains. Even my parents in law could go for this, since they are from a generation with fond memories of bus-vacations, but have gotten too old and comfortable to sit in a regular bus for 20 hours.
I very much like this concept, but I don't think it will ever happen, if only for EU safety regulations that probably do not allow bus travel in such a configuration. My best guess is that Twiliner is trying to solicit interest for their upcoming investment round.
They require passengers to sleep in a sleeping bag - presumably anchored at the top so that the bag absorbs the energy when there is sudden braking.
There has just been two series broadcast - Destination X, American and UK contestants, where they used exactly this kind of bus.
So it's definately allowed.
Ben, with your European reader potentially moving away from air, smart move to start covering the euro lux bus market… :P
Lots of Europeans travel by bus, and for long distances. The rail network hasn’t been the most reliable, especially in Germany, and rail lines don’t go everywhere quickly. Try getting from Zurich to Madrid… don’t think so.
Night trains are only on very limited routes too, and they are not the best...
Ben, with your European reader potentially moving away from air, smart move to start covering the euro lux bus market… :P
Lots of Europeans travel by bus, and for long distances. The rail network hasn’t been the most reliable, especially in Germany, and rail lines don’t go everywhere quickly. Try getting from Zurich to Madrid… don’t think so.
Night trains are only on very limited routes too, and they are not the best sleep either due to stops and the tracks.
Overall I think this is a smart idea for the market. And Adrian is right, Europeans are very proactive about reducing their carbon footprint at the moment so travel by plane is being shunned. And I can only imagine how much the pressure to not pick Air must be on government workers and politicians…. Well now they have a potential solution.
Are they aware of the invention of the train
Quaint idea but it will never work. The people who claim not to fly for ecological reason do not have the money for this. Or if they do, they will fly and not tell anyone about it.
It's funny cause it's true :D
So true!
Little angry Greta is flying?
I dunno. There's very few seats per bus, so it will get quite expensive, but it's still a bus so it won't be as comfortable as trains. It won't be a budget option, nor will it be a premium option. I don't see the market.
Sure, there are some niche routes where railway infrastructure doesn't work, and relatively low capacity of the bus allows this to be deployed on routes with fairly low demand too....
I dunno. There's very few seats per bus, so it will get quite expensive, but it's still a bus so it won't be as comfortable as trains. It won't be a budget option, nor will it be a premium option. I don't see the market.
Sure, there are some niche routes where railway infrastructure doesn't work, and relatively low capacity of the bus allows this to be deployed on routes with fairly low demand too. But will people take this over flying? Selling point of trains is that they're more comfortable and you can get a proper sleep. With this I'm less sure.
But I'll definitely give it a try once.
Also, seems to me they really didn't optimize the space and therefore will have to charge more than they could otherwise. Why would you need to set aside a changing room when you have a bathroom? Waste of space they could've put 1 more seat in. Extra large luggage room, more waste of space for 2 potential additional seats.
Doesn't seem to have been designed for cost performance and creating an opportunity for a better ticket price.
Have you ever tried to change in an airplane bathroom? It is disgusting. The floor is soaked with god knows what and the walls are probably little better. At least in a changing room, people aren't routinely urinating and missing the toilet, and dirty water isn't sloshing from the sink onto the floor and walls.
I agree with @snic about negative aspects of bathroom.
And, especially on recent 'planes, the bathrooms are getting smaller.
But it's also about being consistent with comfort (this is not a budget offering)
When I saw the changing room I thought: "Oh yes, at least someone doing comfort without cutting corners"
No matter what, at least for me, a bus will never be a preferred option or that I would pay for "luxury" level on, or want to be on for more than 1-2 hours at most. The road jostling, starting/stopping in traffic to get in/out of cities, etc. makes it a constant unrestful experience. I will go out of my way to take a train, or just fly to not have to endure bus experiences.
Best of luck to them.
This is a somewhat simplistic approach. A high end coach offers a completely different level of passenger experience compared to an urban bus. I've had great experiences on 'luxury' coach journeys around 3-4 hours in places like Malaysia and Mexico.
@ThrewAwayBrain
I think you're the one being overly simplistic by extrapolating your small data sample, limited to just a few hours in two random locations which have different conditions to travel in Europe...Like, nobody cares what you did. So stop sharing your random stories with strangers. Unless your family is tired of hearing you crap on and on and on...
There's no 'data sample' here and, uf anything, motorways in Europe are generally better than in Mexico, so the suspension and NVH insulation will almost certainly have less work to do on such a service.
You just keep reading random things into my comments, it's amusing and concerning at the same time.
The pricing just doesn't make sense. There is a daily Nightjet from Zurich to Amsterdam (which is then a decent enough change for Rotterdam and Brussels) and for that same date in November, a flat bed in a couhette (shared) is €99, €135 flexible. A sleeper (shared but comfier and with more services) starts at €155, so still cheaper than the cheapest ticket for the bus
On that route I agree with you. However, Barcelona to Zurich one way for 176 Franc is a good offer IMO
I mean thatś not the route Twiliner are trying to launch, while on the other hand it is one SBB are trying to launch (though RFF is really making things tricky)
Agreed.
This reminds me of the "coche cama" class in long distance busses in Argentina. They were quite comfortable for long rides taking 20-ish hours. I'm a little less sold on the idea in Europe, at least for the shorter distance. They might be useful for trips from say Germany to Spain without many stops as the night trains are really lacking for those lanes.
"If I were a business traveler and had an important meeting the next day, I’d realistically rather take the last flight of the night to my destination and spend a night in a proper bed at a hotel, rather than chancing on it being able to get sleep on a bus."
But as a European, I don't think that's who they're targeting. Many Europeans want to travel in a more eco-friendly way internationally and don't...
"If I were a business traveler and had an important meeting the next day, I’d realistically rather take the last flight of the night to my destination and spend a night in a proper bed at a hotel, rather than chancing on it being able to get sleep on a bus."
But as a European, I don't think that's who they're targeting. Many Europeans want to travel in a more eco-friendly way internationally and don't want to fly. This explains the night train boom. For people who want to do this, but also want comfort, companies like FlixBus are not an option - this would be. Personally, I think this could be very successful if they can scale it properly.