Delta Air Lines is launching a new route on its own metal (thanks to @IshrionA for flagging this), though only for a limited time…
In this post:
Delta will fly from Boston to Sao Paulo in early 2025
Between January 6 and March 27, 2025, Delta is operating a 3x weekly flight between Boston (BOS) and Sao Paulo (GRU). The 4,790-mile flight will operate with the following schedule:
DL165 Boston to Sao Paulo departing 9:00AM arriving 8:45PM
DL164 Sao Paulo to Boston departing 10:45PM arriving 6:40AM (+1 day)
The southbound flight is blocked at 9hr45min, and will operate on Mondays, Thursdays, and Fridays, while the northbound flight is blocked at 9hr55min, and will operate on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays.
While the outbound flight timing is great in terms of aircraft utilization (since the plane can turn right around in Sao Paulo), the daytime flight isn’t necessarily preferred by many business travelers, and it’s also not great for connections.
Delta will use an Airbus A330-300 for the service, featuring 282 seats. This includes 34 Delta One (business class) seats, 21 Delta Premium Select (premium economy) seats, 24 Delta Comfort+ (extra legroom economy) seats, and 203 Main Cabin (economy) seats.
It would appear that Delta is simply replacing the service of its joint venture partner LATAM in the market for a period of roughly three months. LATAM has operated this route since 2018. Delta’s new service has identical timing to LATAM’s service, which is why it seems like it’s a replacement. Meanwhile LATAM will operate this service through early January, and again as of late March.
It’s interesting to see Delta replacing LATAM in the market
Delta owns a stake in LATAM, and on top of that, the two airlines have a joint venture between the United States and much of South America. With a joint venture, airlines can coordinate schedules and fares, and can also share revenue.
We often see joint venture partners replace Delta in some markets, which is logical enough, since Delta has a higher cost structure than most of its partners. For example, we’ve seen Delta axe service between Los Angeles (LAX) and London (LHR), and instead that route is exclusively operated by partner Virgin Atlantic.
So in this situation, why is Delta replacing its joint venture partner LATAM, which almost certainly has a lower cost structure? In this case it seems easy enough to figure out:
- US airlines can’t get their hands on enough wide body aircraft for their summer schedule, given the amount of transatlantic demand; however, the first three months of the year are the absolute slowest across the Atlantic
- As a result, Delta presumably has some spare aircraft, so the airline needs to fly them somewhere
- Meanwhile in South America, those same months are peak season (given that it’s summer in the Southern Hemisphere), so I suspect LATAM can better utilize its aircraft for other routes
All of this seems like a logical enough development. If Delta permanently replaced LATAM in this market, then I’d be a bit confused. But with Delta just taking over the service during its slowest period for long haul travel, this makes sense.
Bottom line
Delta will operate flights between Boston and Sao Paulo in early 2025, replacing the existing service by joint venture partner LATAM. It may seem confusing to see Delta get into this market for just a few months, especially given that Delta has a higher cost structure than LATAM. But it’s easier to make sense of when you look at the big picture, and consider the other places LATAM can fly planes that time of year.
What do you make of Delta launching Boston to Sao Paulo flights?
Let’s not forget latam is down an aircraft because of the incident in Milan.
yes, Latam is down an aircraft.
As much as the mental midgets below don't want to hear it, Delta is by far in the best position among US airlines - and among many global airlines - to use its fleet not just to grow but to cover fleet needs for its JV partners.
By fleet tracking sites, AA has received ZERO of the SIX 787s it was due to receive in 2024. UA has received...
yes, Latam is down an aircraft.
As much as the mental midgets below don't want to hear it, Delta is by far in the best position among US airlines - and among many global airlines - to use its fleet not just to grow but to cover fleet needs for its JV partners.
By fleet tracking sites, AA has received ZERO of the SIX 787s it was due to receive in 2024. UA has received ZERO of the EIGHT 787s it was due to receive in 2024. HA has received TWO 787s in 2024.
Delta is on track to receive 14 new A330NEOs and A350s in 2024.
Even with retirement of some of its 767-300ER fleet, the refurbishment of its ex-Latam A350-900 fleet which is underway and might be completed by next summer (while AA postpones its 777W cabin refurbishment project), DL is still adding new widebody flights, expanding its network in the S. Pacific, and covering for its JV partners.
This addition is all about DL having the widebody aircraft which other airlines do not have the aircraft to grow.
For years, we have had to endure the endless drone of UA management about their growth plans which has been repeated endlessly by UA's fans.
UA really has not received many new aircraft since it made that pronouncement but has shuffled aircraft around its network and continues to do so.
AA chose to retire its 767 and A330 fleets during the pandemic and has largely not chosen to replace them.
DL not only simply pushed back new aircraft deliveries that were scheduled to arrive during the pandemic to 2024 and be yond but added to its order book with at least 20 new A350-1000s to give it the most capable and efficient widebody that will exist in the US carrier fleet. The first of those 35Ks might arrive months ahead of schedule in 2025 as Delta appears to be taking over some of VS' A350 orders.
DL will be growing its international network and doing it far more than other airlines, including those that try to woo the world by keeping a bunch of 737s out of domestic service where those planes could be used because Airbus will supply half of even the narrowbodies that United will receive in 2024.
Delta was the only airline that bucked the US industry in choosing Airbus widebodies. DL's strategy will pay off handsomely in the next few years as AA and UA and even AS try to keep a stiff upper lip but will watch DL grow its international and domestic network while those that sought Boeing as their primary supplier will suffer endless delays and strategic losses.
Regardless of whether some people want to attack anyone that tells them that reality, that is the reality that DL's ability to take over flying for LA means.
and it means that DL will be doing international growing in the next few years.
Is it me, or would the timing be so much better if reverses? 21:00 BOS departure gets you in around 8:45 and 10:45 departure from GRU gets you in around 18:40. I doubt there are good connections on the BOS side seeing how far in the northeast corner it’s in. Connections to Europe don’t make sense either. For VFR travelers, the timing isn’t that big of an issue, however, as a tourist, 20:45 is a...
Is it me, or would the timing be so much better if reverses? 21:00 BOS departure gets you in around 8:45 and 10:45 departure from GRU gets you in around 18:40. I doubt there are good connections on the BOS side seeing how far in the northeast corner it’s in. Connections to Europe don’t make sense either. For VFR travelers, the timing isn’t that big of an issue, however, as a tourist, 20:45 is a bit late to arrive, especially if immigration queues are long. That time seems a bit late to connect o wards to Argentina or Chile also. On the other hand, if you reverse the timing, an 18:40 arrival into Boston isn’t bad, though the queue can get long as the later Euro flights arrive that time.
again, LA is flying the route currently w/ the same timings. While you are probably right that a different timing could create more connections, the route works for LA. DL clearly sees no reason to change the route during the months it operates esp. since it coincides with a peak travel period
I think you have a good point here. I don't know if this is about available slots or ATC restrictions, but it would make perfect sense to me!
It would make perfect sense to offer people connections on partner LATAM to get further into South America, as LATAM has a hub at GRU.
For connecting in the US, I guess only places in the North East would be relevant, and most -if not...
I think you have a good point here. I don't know if this is about available slots or ATC restrictions, but it would make perfect sense to me!
It would make perfect sense to offer people connections on partner LATAM to get further into South America, as LATAM has a hub at GRU.
For connecting in the US, I guess only places in the North East would be relevant, and most -if not all- connections Delta offers from BOS are either further to the south or to the west or both, so people'd be flying back and forth. You're right about international connections being nonsensical, as the USA doesn't offer a possibility for smooth international to international connections. Standing in line for 3 hours at immigration would certainly make you miss any connection to Europe (which actually depart quite often late at night, though). So the US is a place to avoid when getting from South America to Europe. Apart from that, there are lots of direct flights already, the ties with Spain and Portugal are still strong. And besides that, who'd voluntarily fly an extra 9 hours on a mediocre dump like Delta if any other option is available?
The Boston area is home to one of the largest Brazilian diasporas in the U.S. The flights are scheduled to align with connections at LATAM’s GRU hub, rather than Delta’s Boston hub, as the majority of passengers have Boston as their primary origin or destination.
Recently, I flew on an AA late morning flight from Miami to Boston and was surprised by the number of Brazilians taking the flight (who I assumed were connecting...
The Boston area is home to one of the largest Brazilian diasporas in the U.S. The flights are scheduled to align with connections at LATAM’s GRU hub, rather than Delta’s Boston hub, as the majority of passengers have Boston as their primary origin or destination.
Recently, I flew on an AA late morning flight from Miami to Boston and was surprised by the number of Brazilians taking the flight (who I assumed were connecting in MIA from the flights that had arrived from Brazil that morning).
have a feeling this is due to the new A330 pilot crew base in BOS this year. Only winter routes on the A330 are CDG, AMS, LHR, HNL (although it switches to a 763 in Spring)
they haven't even announced an opening date for the BOS 330 pilot base so far as I know but even if they have, it won't make a difference in staffing for the base in the first couple months of operation.
If the flight works for LA with the current timings, it works for DL. They have a JV. There are connections at BOS and certainly on the GRU end.
As for aircraft availability, all US airlines use more widebodies in the summer than in the winter.
In addition, DL will receive 14 new Airbus widebodies this year - more than twice the number of 787s that AA, UA and HA will receive from...
If the flight works for LA with the current timings, it works for DL. They have a JV. There are connections at BOS and certainly on the GRU end.
As for aircraft availability, all US airlines use more widebodies in the summer than in the winter.
In addition, DL will receive 14 new Airbus widebodies this year - more than twice the number of 787s that AA, UA and HA will receive from Boeing.
Most of DL's new widebodies are coming or came after the summer so were of no use during the most peak summer period.
DL is beginning conversion of the ex-Latam 359s to the new DL standard 35H configuration.
They are also retiring several 767s between now and the spring but they still have more widebodies during the winter that they need for their international schedule and still have some for 2025 growth - in addition to the 11 confirmed Airbus widebodies they will receive in 2025 although some could also be received in the 2nd half of the year and not usable for the peak summer period.
Competitively, I believe with this addition, DL will overtake UA as the 2nd largest US airline at GRU even on its own metal.
DL appears to have a good plan to use its extra widebodies during the winter in markets other than to Europe is also operating double daily ATL-EZE and ATL-SCL for a couple months during the winter as well in addition to their increased service to the S. Pacific.
There are other routes to S. America which DL could take over from LA even on a seasonal basis if this works.
You need help
in other words, you don't like the answer, esp. the reminder that Delta is getting new widebody aircraft while AAL and UAL are both decrying the fact that Boeing is not delivering aircraft for them.
Delta is fat with aircraft this winter awaiting new route launches next year.. They have the aircraft to launch new routes and take over other routes from their JV partners.
Are you really this lame in real life? Do you have any friends, at all?
You are seriously mistaken if you think I participate in aviation social media for the friends. I find absolutely nothing social about talking to a bunch of anonymous, dirt slinging individuals.
You and others clearly cannot stand the fact that I speak what I want to say, don’t care what anyone thinks, and tell you the truth that you don’t want to hear.
if you or others had half of a brain, you would realize...
You are seriously mistaken if you think I participate in aviation social media for the friends. I find absolutely nothing social about talking to a bunch of anonymous, dirt slinging individuals.
You and others clearly cannot stand the fact that I speak what I want to say, don’t care what anyone thinks, and tell you the truth that you don’t want to hear.
if you or others had half of a brain, you would realize that the more you try to denigrate me, the more I say
in this case, Delta has aircraft available for expansion because it developed a viable aircraft sourcing plan years ago. Boeing has had problems for nearly 2 decades delivering the planes that it said it would deliver. Airbus is delivering widebody aircraft to Delta on time.
Delta built its post recovery plan around aggressive international growth in the 2024 period And forward.
American had an A350 order but canceled it. United still has A350s on order but keeps pushing it back. Hawaiian also had A350s on order.
The fact that Delta can grow now and other airlines cannot to anywhere near the same extent is a result of the choices that each airline made years ago.
Delta’s ability to add flights to Brazil South Korea and other places is a result of it having airplanes that other airlines do not have.
The more you come to grips with that reality and quit trying to shoot the messenger, the happier we all will be
"Do you have any friends, at all?"
Verdict: Nope
How come you added other US carriers in the conversation when those aforementioned carriers had literally nothing to do with the topic?
Seriously, what does HA have anything to do with the topic?
You seriously are not capable of reading that this has to do with available aircraft?
Delta is the only US airline that is buying widebody aircraft from Airbus. Everybody else is dependent on Boeing and their problems.
Are you really trying to say United and AA don't have available widebodies January to March? AA barely has any but even they do...
How do you come up with this stupidity?
"You are seriously mistaken if you think I participate in aviation social media for the friends."
I don't think anyone assumes you participate for any reason other than loneliness and jealousy of those that succeeded in the industry, unlike you in the comment section.
"If you or others had half of a brain, you would realize that the more you try to denigrate me, the more I say"
Please. Say what you want. You...
"You are seriously mistaken if you think I participate in aviation social media for the friends."
I don't think anyone assumes you participate for any reason other than loneliness and jealousy of those that succeeded in the industry, unlike you in the comment section.
"If you or others had half of a brain, you would realize that the more you try to denigrate me, the more I say"
Please. Say what you want. You do an amazing job making yourself look like an idiot.
"The fact that Delta can grow now and other airlines cannot to anywhere near the same extent is a result of the choices that each airline made years ago."
Right... in January to March... when no one is using their widebodies fully.
please list the widebody routes that American is adding in 2025, do the same for United and then do it for Delta.
Delta is retiring 767s, refurbishing its ex-Latam A350s, will take 14 new Airbus widebodies in 2024 and close to that amount in 2025.
Tell us how many new 787s AA and UA have received in 2024.
Delta has plenty of widebodies and is adding widebody routes while AA is adding some new widebody...
please list the widebody routes that American is adding in 2025, do the same for United and then do it for Delta.
Delta is retiring 767s, refurbishing its ex-Latam A350s, will take 14 new Airbus widebodies in 2024 and close to that amount in 2025.
Tell us how many new 787s AA and UA have received in 2024.
Delta has plenty of widebodies and is adding widebody routes while AA is adding some new widebody routes at the expense of flights it is suspending - and United announced a bunch of narrowbody, heavily seasonal routes.
DL can add new flights and cover for its JV partners.
You can't stand that reality so resort to denigrating me.
If what I said about the subject was wrong, you would focus on that... but you can't so you focus on me.
Let's break this down for once.
"If the flight works for LA with the current timings, it works for DL. They have a JV. There are connections at BOS and certainly on the GRU end."
Great reaction, to the point and on topic. You could have stopped here.
"As for aircraft availability, all US airlines use more widebodies in the summer than in the winter."
Ok, nice addition, nice to mention, but a...
Let's break this down for once.
"If the flight works for LA with the current timings, it works for DL. They have a JV. There are connections at BOS and certainly on the GRU end."
Great reaction, to the point and on topic. You could have stopped here.
"As for aircraft availability, all US airlines use more widebodies in the summer than in the winter."
Ok, nice addition, nice to mention, but a bit like kicking in an open door, to be honest. It's not exactly new information.
"In addition, DL will receive 14 new Airbus widebodies this year - more than twice the number of 787s that AA, UA and HA will receive from Boeing."
Here we go again. A completely off-topic rant and somehow UA and AA need to be involved. Even worse, they need to be shat on and made look bad - even about things beyond their control and which have literally nothing to do with the topic. It's as if Timmy only gains self worth and self confidence by kicking others down instead of climbing up by himself. Very sad.
"Most of DL's new widebodies are coming or came after the summer so were of no use during the most peak summer period."
Irrelevant.
"DL is beginning conversion of the ex-Latam 359s to the new DL standard 35H configuration."
Irrelevant.
"They are also retiring several 767s between now and the spring but they still have more widebodies during the winter that they need for their international schedule and still have some for 2025 growth - in addition to the 11 confirmed Airbus widebodies they will receive in 2025 although some could also be received in the 2nd half of the year and not usable for the peak summer period."
Since this is about a swap of metal for about 10 weeks, since this involves an A330 and since this topic has absolutely nothing to do with anything that might happen later on in 2025, nor on completely different routes, I'd call it off topic.
"Competitively, I believe with this addition, DL will overtake UA as the 2nd largest US airline at GRU even on its own metal."
Irrelevant and speculation. Being the carrier with the second most 'US metal' at some airport doesn't say anything, really. It's about a temporary 10 week aircraft swap, it's not a long term strategic investment that's being discussed. Besides, given that the 3 US legacy carriers fly to and from different hubs, have different strategies and appeal to different audiences, making literally every route or aircraft a competition is truly apples and oranges, or rather complete bollocks.
"DL appears to have a good plan to use its extra widebodies during the winter in markets other than to Europe is also operating double daily ATL-EZE and ATL-SCL for a couple months during the winter as well in addition to their increased service to the S. Pacific."
Again, off topic and irrelevant here. This is about a short term aircraft swap on a route to Brazil.
"There are other routes to S. America which DL could take over from LA even on a seasonal basis if this works."
They could also ask Air Belgium for some nice wet lease agreements if they're shorthanded, for example. Again, off topic and speculation, there's no incentive to assume this may be considered.
I side with Julie and many others here: please seek help.
the only "breakdown" necessary is that DL is receiving new Airbus widebodies on schedule at a far greater rate than AA, UA and HA - and that makes all the difference in what DL can do both for its JV partners and in growing its network.
The only people that need help are those that can't stand to accept that reality
When will this be available for sale?
I was planning on purchasing the latam flights for January and they were available earlier this week. Now these flights are nonexistent on all platforms, including both delta and latam websites
The reason is most likely LATAM's refurbishment of 787 cabins (installation of new business class). They probably have a gap in capacity, and delta has excess during winter months...
This new route is a game changer. My son will be here to comment after he finishes his chores.
p-e-n-i-s
Yes Paul - you are an insufferable prick
Anyone venture to guess how much money Delta loses in BOS?
DOT/FTC needs to ban airline joint ventures.
The connections are all on the Brazil side. Not on the Boston side. Delta and latam do cost sharing on their joint venture routes, so there really is no huge difference in terms of cost. This is just an instance where latam has some aircraft availability issues for a certain period of time, so therefore delta is filling in. Don't read anything more into it than that.