Folks, the world’s richest man and the airline industry’s richest man are arguing like little children, and they’re both wrong…
In this post:
Elon Musk & Michael O’Leary go after one another
A couple of days ago, I covered how European ultra low cost carrier Ryanair announced it had no interest in Starlink. Ryanair CEO Michael O’Leary explained that installing Wi-Fi would increase drag on the plane by around 2%, and also (more importantly, if you ask me) that Ryanair passengers weren’t willing to pay for Starlink Wi-Fi.
Elon Musk claimed that O’Leary was “misinformed,” and suggested that Ryanair will lose customers if it doesn’t introduce Wi-Fi. Well, as it turns out, this disagreement was only the start of their feud, as this has escalated greatly in the past couple of days.
In a radio interview, O’Leary said:
- “I would pay no attention whatsoever to Elon Musk. He’s an idiot. Very wealthy, but he’s still an idiot.”
- “What Elon Musk knows about flights and drag is zero. We have to put an aerial antenna on top of the aircraft. It would cost us around $200-250 million a year. In other words, about an extra dollar for every passenger we fly. And the reality for us is that we can’t afford those costs. Passengers won’t pay for internet. If it’s free they’ll use it, but they won’t pay €1 to use the internet.”
- “I frankly wouldn’t pay any attention to anything that Elon Musk puts on that cesspit of his called X. He was the guy who advocated to getting Donald Trump elected.”
In response to this, Elon Musk wrote on his X account that the “Ryanair CEO is an utter idiot,” and to “fire him.”
Ryanair then trolled Musk on X about claims that the site was experiencing outages, to which Musk responded “should I buy Ryan Air and put someone whose actual name is Ryan in charge?”
Then you have people online theorizing about how if Elon Musk paid a 50% premium to Ryanair shareholders, he could buy the entire company for $53 billion, which would be just 7% of his total net worth.
My take on the Starlink & Ryanair controversy
If you ask me, both Musk and O’Leary are completely off base here. Admittedly they’re both people who are known for making outlandish comments, so that’s hardly surprising, since they’re more worried about making headlines than making sense.
O’Leary suggesting that “what Elon Musk knows about flights and drag is zero” is a bit of a stretch, no doubt. I think the SpaceX engineers probably know more about the added fuel burn of the Starlink hardware than Ryanair does, given that the airline has seemingly never had any interest in this service.
Here’s the thing, though. Say what you will about O’Leary, and I’m certainly not a fan of many of his antics. But he has run the world’s most successful ultra low cost carrier for decades, and he’s one of the only people in the world who has become a billionaire as the long term CEO of an airline.
O’Leary knows what passengers are willing to pay for, and what they aren’t, and he’s probably right that Ryanair wouldn’t be able to command higher fares if it introduced Starlink. That’s not why people choose the airline.
The funniest escalation in this entire debate is suggesting that Musk should buy Ryanair so that O’Leary can be fired. I love the above scenario of Musk paying a 50% premium on Ryanair’s stock price. If O’Leary is smart, he’ll keep this feud going and get Musk to follow through on this. That’s because O’Leary is the person with the most to gain by Musk buying Ryanair and firing him! He owns over 4% of the company, so his net worth would go up 50% overnight if the company were to be purchased at a premium.
Bottom line
Elon Musk and Ryanair CEO Michael O’Leary are in quite the feud over Starlink. It all started with O’Leary claiming the airline wasn’t interested in Starlink, both due to increased fuel burn, and because passengers aren’t willing to pay for the service. Musk disagreed, then O’Leary called Musk an idiot, then Musk called O’Leary an idiot and demanded he be fired, etc.
Billionaires really need more hobbies, eh?
What do you make of this Starlink feud, and who do you side with?
I really wouldn't kill too many braincells analyzing this one.
O'Leary couldn't give a r*ts a***. In fact, he'd probably welcome the debt repayment and the funding to start all over again.
I'm always in support of anyone that is against creepy Musk.... yuck! He's such a disgusting moron who always quacks like he knows everything. Please do not give any credit to this creepy weirdo who's fathered children with God knows how many idiotic bimbos.
As much as I do not like O'Leary, I do admit that he knows his customer quite well and knows what they are willing to pay for. As the article suggests he has run for a while a successful ultra low cost airline. There are many ways that it is successful - through fees, flying to/from places that legacy airlines do with a stop, etc....
Oh, another business that Musk wants to fail with - just like he did with Twitter. In a similar way too; overpays, tries to back out, then forced to follow through, reduces profitability when called on his claims. And now twitter is just a shadow of its former self; inflated with bots and outages, and with degraded functionality.
Sounds like O'Leary is an Idiot.....but a rich one!!!
I like the idea of Musk buying Ryanair.
O'Leary then sets up a new airline with all the Ryanair staff, and Ryanair itself is worth nothing.
Chips away at Musk's wealth.
It's more publicity for Ryanair. They love it!
Why give Elon any credibility at all here when his track record outside of his specialty (hyping tech companies to milk more government money) shows that he's at best Dunning-Kruger incarnate? Man claims he can run Twitter better, and he runs it into the ground by turning it into Stormfront with AI-generated CSAM. Man claims he's a 1337 gam3r and can't even navigate the UI of the game he's supposedly a world-class player in. Man...
Why give Elon any credibility at all here when his track record outside of his specialty (hyping tech companies to milk more government money) shows that he's at best Dunning-Kruger incarnate? Man claims he can run Twitter better, and he runs it into the ground by turning it into Stormfront with AI-generated CSAM. Man claims he's a 1337 gam3r and can't even navigate the UI of the game he's supposedly a world-class player in. Man claims he can solve the public transit and congestion problem and builds a one (1) lane tunnel under Vegas that only fits Teslas, the Teslas still require a driver, and passenger throughput is abysmal.
He's a rich dude that managed to hire competent enough people to not wreck a handful of his endeavors, and when he tries to assume hands-on control he fails miserably.
Musk is not a space x engineer. O Leary isn’t wrong. But we must simp for Musk lest he knock us off his Nazified website
you can always accelerate this by not using X at all. I've found this pretty easy.
One correction- musk actually doesn't know much of anything. A "benefit" of his years of recent antics is the tech-etc community has seen clearly that he's just a pitchman, a stock promoter, not an engineer or even entrepreneur of any kind..
Lots of horror stories to corroborate.
That's before discovering he's a raging Nazi from a white supermacist family, a complete transphobe/homephobe, and also participating in breaking many US laws with "doge" while leading...
One correction- musk actually doesn't know much of anything. A "benefit" of his years of recent antics is the tech-etc community has seen clearly that he's just a pitchman, a stock promoter, not an engineer or even entrepreneur of any kind..
Lots of horror stories to corroborate.
That's before discovering he's a raging Nazi from a white supermacist family, a complete transphobe/homephobe, and also participating in breaking many US laws with "doge" while leading directly to the deaths of many (many) by suddenly closing down usaid.
I don't like the ryanair guy but he's never done any of that. Only one of these folks is a vicious supervillain.
Ben, I'm surprised to see you doing a "both sides" with such a vile person.
It's not clear O'Leary is being a child. He loves PR so much he'll even suggest the future may have paid airliner toilets and stand-only sections.
Elon and RyanAir belong together--they're both awful.
i like Elon very much he is very intelligent and very creative
and is having excellent ideas and imaginations to start any new
ventures no one has become so rich as billionaire in short span
he made drastic changes in the federal govt and saved billions of dollars. he does not have suitable assignment or project commensurate with his amount of knowledge and experience.
there is nothing wrong with him i like him and support his views
Oh, so your an idiot. Got it.
Oh, so your an idiot. Got it.
What would it be renamed to? Elonair?
I think they're both idiots for engaging in this completely useless spat.
You mean both are idiots who thrive on attention--and here we give them their fuel so it's a useful spat. Free advertising. One is far more narcissistic than the other.
Surely the important thing is to clarify if it's Ryanair, Ryan Air or RyanAir...
Haven't read this article. Don't know the beef. But I can tell you by default if the situation is Elon vs someone (be it a person, a company, a cat or even a dunkin donut hole) by default I'm siding with whomever is against elon with the lone exception of maybe an orange fat man who resembles Baron harkonnen.
So you’re saying that because that Sooth Efrican employs great engineers that their knowledge is automatically transferred to his head , is this like getting a Nobel Prize and then giving it away
I would pay €1 to use the internet on a flight.
The Realization: when Elon wanders into an area you happen to know more than a bit about and proceeds to demonstrate he's an idiot.
Elon would fit right in as a poster on this Blog. Knows everything about everything.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that musk purchasing Ryanair is basically impossible due to EU Ownership rules of EU airlines being owned by foreign entities. An airline operating in the EU must be majority owned by EU nationals and or entities (this would also prohibit musk from setting up an EU registered firm to do this). So the idea of that even being possible for Musk is not relevant in the slightest as it is simply not possible under EU law
And before the people in the US get upset by this reality they should learn that US law requires US airlines be 75% owned and controlled by US nationals.
Well, he could buy Ryanair and shut it down just out of spite.
Elon Musk is not an engineer at Starlink so MOL's comment stands (or at least doesn't fall on that regard).
And the moron CEO of Ryanair is an engineer?
Your bias is showing.
No, but he runs a successful airline.
Elon doesn't. Nor does he run a successful business he last bought out - twitter. Having reduced all metrics on it since his ill-considered purchase that even he tried to back out.
SpaceX is one of the highest valued privately held companies in the US. To say he isn't running a successful business is absurd. And everyone should be reminded of Elon's background in Physics and the incredible amount of fluid dynamics knowledge it takes to put a rocket into space. To think an economics major knows more about that subject than Elon Musk is equally absurd.
I would pay for Starlink if it were low cost: $5 a flight. But when I pay is critical. Paying on the plane: no. Paying at checkout as I pay for the flight: yes.
Ketamine's a hell of a drug.
I’m new, but is 1990 the spam bot/unemployed person around here? What are the prompts on that AI response generator? (Larp of a) Millennial? Know-it-all? “Witty” and “biting” remarks?
No. You clearly are new. And confused.
So please elaborate rather than regurgitating my comment as if it’s your own assessment.
Thanks for the extra attention!
We love Elon!
It’s more of a love-hate relationship. If he focuses on his companies, achieves real progress within electric vehicles, space travel, internet from satellites, etc. he’s our Henry Ford; but, like Ford, he gets distracted with supremacist nonsense and modern-day trolling… DOGE was certainly the low-point. He may have cost millions of lives with those cuts. At least Starlink is reliable. But, yeesh, everything else. His kids. The anti-trans stuff. *deep sigh*
Your post only demonstrates one thing, your complete and utter ignorance which has led to being brainwashed by far-left globalists.
Realist, you used some words, but said nothing.
I read a great article this morning about Tesla dealers using defunct mall parking lots to store excess Tesla vehicles.
Dealers says yoy sales are down about 12-15%
Why is everyone missing the most important part of why this is stupid. Elon cannot buy a controlling stake in RyanAir, EU airlines are required to have 51% EU ownership, to my knowledge Elon is not an EU Citizen so this conversation of him buying the airline is just dumb.
Couldn’t he just set up some type of dummy corporation or shell company registered in the EU? Or would that also need to have it’s owner be an EU citizen as well?
It is a person level and not a corporation level.
Here is the exact regulation
"Member States and/or nationals of Member States own more than 50 % of the undertaking and effectively control it, whether directly or indirectly through one or more intermediate undertakings"
"Nationals" refers to individuals not corporations, so if an investment fund or company owns shares they have to determine and report the ownership % of the shares in their fund....
It is a person level and not a corporation level.
Here is the exact regulation
"Member States and/or nationals of Member States own more than 50 % of the undertaking and effectively control it, whether directly or indirectly through one or more intermediate undertakings"
"Nationals" refers to individuals not corporations, so if an investment fund or company owns shares they have to determine and report the ownership % of the shares in their fund. For example if a fund owned by one American and one German owns 10% of an EU airline that is considered 5% EU ownership.
Thanks.
@Aaron - If it were that easy, the whole issue of traffic rights would disappear, Ryanair would be flying all over the US, Emirates all over Europe, and Delta all over Asia. Of course you can't just make a shell company and wink :)
You asume that Americans actually care about rule of law. That seems to beva strech these days.
I an no fan of O’Leary but I will take him any day over the nazi fan musk boy
Good thing the American government doesn't enforce European Law, the EU would effectively just stop the transaction by instructing banks in the EU to not participate in the transaction. As a last resort they could revoke the AOCs for RyanAir and not let the airline fly.
@Brad - EU would absolutely not instruct banks to not participate in the transaction, because such transaction would be perfectly legal. Elon is allowed to buy Ryanair, it's just that if he were to do it, Ryanair would no longer be considered an Eu-owned airline and therefore would lose EU traffic rights. Which would effectively mean that Elon would own a very big airline that basically couldn't fly anywhere.
It's interesting to me how recently, everyone thinks they're an expert at everything they can learn in a day, and that they should seek to get involved in something they have no business getting involved in.
Instead of calling others dumb, why not, hear them out, attempt to engage on-topic, and… I’m just kidding. YOU know everything. We should just SHUT UP and listen to YOU.
Says the resident imbecile.
Not surprising the dumbest person on the board wants you to give his statements a chance…. LOL
Realist, please consider Eric’s advice…
Ryan Reynolds, Meg Ryan, Ryan Gosling?
Not sure they have any airline experience though?
Meg Ryan? I’ll (fly) what she’s (flying)…
Musk is relentless with his employees O'Leary with his customers. imagine combining the two
The beatings will continue, regardless of morale or improvement.
Elon Mush very likely understand absolutely zero about a drag and the cost that means for an airline. The fact that SpaceX engineers calculate drag on launches does not make Musky an expert in drag calculation or more relevant airline operating costs. If I had to put my money on the person understanding the relevant cost and revenue opportunities here, it would go for O'Leary
Who knows, maybe Elon knows about ‘drag,’ just not the business or aviation-kind… anyway, unrelated, but has anyone seen Oh Mary! yet?
So the engineer doesn’t understand drag, but the bozo CEO of an airline who’s never had a real job dos? Your bias is showing.
Realist, you’re the drag king on here…
Elon proving how stupid he is by basically saying, "No, you are!"
I know that you are, but what am I…
Stop hitting yourself…
Feels like 2nd grade.
Irrespective of the correct drag penalty %, Ryanair’s entire business model is to give you a seat and nothing else for free, in order to keep airfares as low as possible. Whether it is WiFi, food, baggage, or anything else.
Europeans might have a love-hate relationship with O’Leary and Ryanair but it has been highly successful for decades because their business model meets the needs of European travelers. This argument feels like a lost cause for Musk.
Exactly. The market’s invisible hand hasn't just supported Ryanair; it has actively reshaped the competition. The ultimate validation of O’Leary’s model is that 'legacy' carriers like BA, Lufthansa, and Air France have essentially become low-cost carriers in disguise. They’ve adopted the same unbundling, paid seat selection, and buy-on-board policies. O'Leary won the culture war—everyone is playing by his rules now.
It's possible to be both brilliant and immature.
*blushing*
And malignantly narcissistic!
As much as I personally dislike O'Leary, he never ran a company into the ground. He may not be as high-profile, but he's ten times the businessman Elon ever will be.
The funniest thing, though, is all the non-European Musk fanboys completely missing the mark on Ryanair. Listen, vaporware techbros, the airline has transformed flying in Europe. It has the most comprehensive network, let alone their unmatched point-to-point offering, and it's been able to generate...
As much as I personally dislike O'Leary, he never ran a company into the ground. He may not be as high-profile, but he's ten times the businessman Elon ever will be.
The funniest thing, though, is all the non-European Musk fanboys completely missing the mark on Ryanair. Listen, vaporware techbros, the airline has transformed flying in Europe. It has the most comprehensive network, let alone their unmatched point-to-point offering, and it's been able to generate new demand wherever it appeared. Wi-fi is absolutely not going to move the needle here.
And yes, ever my previous, UK-based VP and CTO would fly Ryanair to visit clients and our continental offices, because they offered nonstops from where he lived. You may despise their extreme upsells and over-the-top PR, but they manage their core business better than any other airline out there.
Nail on head. You can't just avoid Ryanair in Europe like you can Spirit and Frontier. If I'm in a mid sized EU city trying to get to another similar sized one in another country, Ryan or Wizz will be the only nonstop. A no brainer.
Also, if your options are 35€ on Ryan or 350€ on KLM/BA/Lufthansa, you simply buy the full package on Ryan and have a better experience than a backseat with the majors
Sean, I am not so sure about your seat cost comparison, in all cases. I did that exercise a while back to two EU capitals. BA won hands down for me as it would take me longer to travel to/from the Ryanair airports, etc. In those cases the increased travel expenses between home, airports and final destinations far exceeded any flight costs savings.
Juraj, please be prepared for the incoming directed at you from the U.S. airline fanboys. Some absolutely hate the truth about non-U.S. carriers.
As for Musk and the O’Leary, they really are marmite figures and I for one, cannot stand the stuff. The O’Leary is just like marmite as far as I am concerned. As for Musk, in spite of his habit of befuddling his brain cell with chemicals, he is an engineer at least.
The main difference between O'Leary and Musk is that the former built his business model by using public subsidies while the other one used public subsidies to develop his business model.
I thought that Elon was intentionally satirising as a wannabe Bond Villain. No longer do I believe that it is an act, he is an eccentric idiot.
Musk is a fascist c. If Ryanair doesn’t want to buy a product that’s their decision.
Oh now I get it, you're one of those people who thinks everyone who isn't a left wing psychopath is a fascist. I can safely ignore everything you write now.
Kind of like how a lot of people ignore you given your opinion of people you disagree with politically? I imagine Icarus is laying in their bed at this very moment unable to sleep over your refusal to read any of their posts going forward.
Preach it. As far as silly responses go… nuff said.
@Mantis,
I find some of you so strange. What does it take for you to consider someone a fascist? Do you have to be standing there as they are pushing people into ovens? Come on man, use your gray matter to think critically and become a friend of empiricism.
Certainly not a full-bodied Nazi salute.
Mantis, please accept my ’helpful’ tick, as I agree with your assessment of the biased views posted by Icarus …. he/she/it epitomises hubris and ambition (the lack of). It uses the ‘C’ word to emphasise a point, yet it forgets that the anatomical part of the female anatomy to which it refers is extremely useful. The same cannot be said of Icarus.
I’ve literally seen the guy give a Nazi salute on live tv
Andrew, it was clearly multiple Nazi salutes… sorry, I mean “ROMAN” signs of his “passion” and “excitement” and we should move on as quickly as possible, and continue to provide billions in public funding to subsidize this white South African pro-apartheid cohort along with Theil. Yay… /s
Folks, as I said below and some of you likely already know, Mantis usually frequents VFTW (which should be known as ‘view from the RIGHT wing’ based on bigoted comments from folks like him), and has claimed that he’s an American, who gave up on us, and now lives in Asia, where he spreads right-wing misinformation on travel blogs. Context.
Icarus's low IQ probably allows him to live on public benefits and ride the tram for free.
So a glorified bus company owner is gonna tell a guy who builds rocket ships that he's an idiot that knows nothing about drag? O'Leary may know his eurotrash customers, but that's about it. As a mechanical engineer I'm 100% certain starlink knows exactly what the drag and fuel burn are on just about every major airframe. If Elon says it's about 0.2% increased fuel burn then I'll believe it.
It's safe to say that...
So a glorified bus company owner is gonna tell a guy who builds rocket ships that he's an idiot that knows nothing about drag? O'Leary may know his eurotrash customers, but that's about it. As a mechanical engineer I'm 100% certain starlink knows exactly what the drag and fuel burn are on just about every major airframe. If Elon says it's about 0.2% increased fuel burn then I'll believe it.
It's safe to say that Starlink wouldn't sell to them now even if they begged for it. At some point when they are the only carrier that doesn't have internet access, they will indeed lose customers.
I doubt they will lose customers.
And regardless of what technical knowledge O’Leary has or doesn’t have, this is just Musk being butthurt about a company publicly rejecting getting Starlink. How dare they!
No, they could have not bought the produc and left it at thatt, but they make false claims about the drag and fuel burn (could be a defamation lawsuit coming), and then calls Musk an idiot. He's the one that made it personal.
@Mantis
You seen even more butthurt about this than Musk lol
Not everyone who flies FR is trash. They have a successful business model. You don’t select an airline entirely on the basis of Internet access. Most flights are short and they carry 200 million pax annually. If you’re a mechanical engineer or probably a glorified name for a plumber, you clearly have don’t any knowledge about running an airline.
@Icarus
You know even less about both subjects, so why are you even commenting with a lame argument by authority fallacy? Careful, you're flying too close to the sun again.
LOL I’ve made this same comment to Icarus before (he she they whatevs … is / are very low IQ).
I flew Ryanair once, and only once, in my 5 years living in the UK. They employ frontier-like tactics in their business. I promised I would never step foot on that dumpster fire again. Either the destination isn’t worth visiting or I’ll pay a premium to connect on literally anyone else. Michael O is a...
LOL I’ve made this same comment to Icarus before (he she they whatevs … is / are very low IQ).
I flew Ryanair once, and only once, in my 5 years living in the UK. They employ frontier-like tactics in their business. I promised I would never step foot on that dumpster fire again. Either the destination isn’t worth visiting or I’ll pay a premium to connect on literally anyone else. Michael O is a hypocrite and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing that little lying leprechaun getting pied in the face. Lovely to see he also registers his personal car as a taxi so he can F over everyone else in Dublin traffic.
Honestly, very few people choose a flight based on the airline itself. On most routes, there’s little real competition anyway with the same schedule. And when there is, Ryanair doesn’t offer the best experience, nor do they pretend to. They compete on price, and very often, they win.
On top of that, you usually still have mobile internet for about five minutes after takeoff and again around fifteen minutes before landing. That means on...
Honestly, very few people choose a flight based on the airline itself. On most routes, there’s little real competition anyway with the same schedule. And when there is, Ryanair doesn’t offer the best experience, nor do they pretend to. They compete on price, and very often, they win.
On top of that, you usually still have mobile internet for about five minutes after takeoff and again around fifteen minutes before landing. That means on most Ryanair flights, you’re offline for barely 30 minutes.
Folks, Mantis usually frequents VFTW (which should be known as ‘view from the RIGHT wing’ based on bigoted comments from folks like him), and has claimed that he’s an American, who gave up on us, and now lives in Asia, where he spreads right-wing misinformation on travel blogs. Context.
Nah, Elon's an idiot that lucked his way into his fortune. Like O'Leary or not, he runs a profitable business that's designed around add-ons and upsells. I highly doubt that Ryan Air hasn't done a cost-benefit analysis of adding a Starlink WIFI add-on and O'Leary is more likely to be right than Elon is with regards to its profitability.
Cuckin' HARD lol...DONT BE MEAN TO ELON HE MADE A BILLION DOLLARS WHO CARES IF HES A TRASH MOUTHED NAZI I LOVE HIM
Please Elton, do buy Ryanair and sack the O’Leary. If he needs an extra bob-or-two, I am more than willing to raid my piggy bank …. :-)
Musk buying Ryanair is not working legally as you have to be a citizen of the country where the airline is holding its operating licence if you want to own a more than 50% share of an airline , in some countries even less. So Musk would have to part with his US citizenship…
I don't think Elon Musk has Us Citizenship in the first place.
@ Rain;
Yes he do have! Canadian and US citizenship.
He does, he cheated himself into one…
Eh, yes but also no. Anyone can own an airline in the EU, the citizenship is needed for traffic rights (and thus for Ryanair's business). But it can of course be any EU citizenship, Ryanair is already owned by people from all over Europe, not just from the member state that issues the AOC.
Maybe Viktor will give Elon the citizenship before losing the next election, lol?
The entire world is being turned into a toxic schoolyard for the ultra wealthy 2%. Meanwhile the rest of us are forced to run for cover wherever we can.
Elon Musk behaves as if he owns the world. He may buy one of the US big 3 airlines if he wants to run an airline. Or he may launch his own "Tesla Airlines" and make it the biggest airline in USA. Ryanair doesn't need him.
But Nasir, EM already has an ‘airline’. The fact that it only goes up or down, is of little consequence. The seat cost per mile must be enormous.
Which is worst -- two conceited billionaires, or someone who writes "one of the only people in the world" ?
The person who writes ….worst instead of WORSE.
Worse -- compares 2 people.
Worst -- compares 3 people, which I did.