With Avelo Airlines having launched operations yesterday, Breeze Airways is expected to be the next US airline startup to begin flying. The airline is expected to start selling tickets any day now, and I know many of us are curious about what the Salt Lake City-based carrier’s first routes will be.
Ahead of the launch, Forbes has an interesting story about the airline, after having spent some time with founder David Neeleman. Neeleman is no doubt a bright guy, having founded several airlines, including JetBlue.
In this post I wanted to cover a few of the highlights of this story, because there are some really surprising tidbits in here.
In this post:
Breeze Airways views flight attendants as interns
I’ve written in the past about Breeze’s controversial approach to hiring flight attendants, which requires being enrolled in college and living in company housing. In other words, the airline is trying to exclude anyone who has a family, a college degree, or is looking to build a career.
Well, there are some more details about how this will work. The role of flight attendant will be more like an internship than a career, because Neeleman believes flight attendants don’t improve much with years of experience, and that they can get trapped in a dead-end job due to the seniority system we see at other airlines:
“It’s not something politically correct but it’s something David wholeheartedly believes in,” says Trey Urbahn, a Breeze board member who’s worked with Neeleman at several of his other airlines.
How will Breeze compensate flight attendants?
- They’ll be paid a fixed $1,200 per month
- They’ll receive $6,000 towards tuition for online coursework
- They’ll receive company housing
It’s stated that the role of flight attendants will be “part time,” as they’ll work 15 days per month. However, in reality that’s not hugely different than the schedules that flight attendants work at other airlines full time.
As you’d expect, existing flight attendant unions will no doubt be targeting Breeze:
The largest U.S. flight attendants union says it looks like an attempt to abuse federal work-study subsidies to hold down labor costs. “We’re going to work hard to make sure this doesn’t get off the ground,” says Sara Nelson, president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA.
Breeze wants you to buy a filet mignon sandwich
Neeleman hopes to cut costs by designing the airline around technology, including a smartphone app that he hopes will handle all customer interactions until the day of travel, and also generate a lot of ancillary revenue. As the app is described:
That app, Neeleman says, is designed to convince customers to shell out for upgrades and extras, from food to rental cars, which Breeze is depending on to turn a profit. “[We’ll] flash someone a message, ‘Hey, we see you’re flying today. Would you like to buy a filet mignon sandwich that we can hand deliver to you in your seat?’ Just add all these fun little add-ons where you can just click ‘yes, yes, yes.’ And we can just keep dinging the credit card.”
Breeze will have low fares, no change fees
Breeze will be a low cost carrier primarily operating point-to-point routes that aren’t currently served. Here’s what we can expect from pricing and fees in general:
- Expect most Breeze tickets this summer to cost well under $100 one-way
- When Breeze takes delivery of A220s later this year the airline will offer a first class, and expect those tickets to cost an extra $50-100 one-way
- Breeze will charge $20 for checked bags on flights under three hours
- Breeze won’t charge change or cancelation fees
Breeze has a huge cost advantage over competitors
Breeze is launching operations with Embraer 190/195 aircraft, which the airline is leasing for very little. According to Neeleman:
- Breeze’s trip costs will be 25-30% lower than for competitors with A320s or 737s
- While Breeze’s Embraer aircraft will have 108-118 seats, the airline will be able to break even when selling just 60 seats
- Since the lease costs on Breeze’s planes are so low, the airline can afford to keep the planes parked during the week when demand is low, and fly them primarily on weekends, when demand is much higher
My take on Breeze
I’ve shared my general thoughts on Breeze in the past, though based on these updates I have a few more things to add:
- It sounds like Breeze is going to have an unheard of cost structure that will put virtually any other airline to shame; if the airline can really break even with a 50-55% load factor all while operating fairly small planes (that are easy to fill), Breeze will be a force to be reckoned with
- Breeze is claiming that technology will be a true point of differentiation, though I feel like virtually every airline executive claims that about their own airline; only time will tell if this is all talk, or if Breeze has done something that no other airline has successfully done
- It’s so strange to me how Neeleman is known for building airlines with incredible corporate cultures and employee morale, where employees are able to grow with the airline, while he’s seemingly taking a different approach with Breeze; I wonder how Breeze will evolve over time
Bottom line
Breeze should be launching operations shortly, becoming the second new US airline to launch in a matter of weeks. Neeleman has a track record of success in the industry, so I’m curious to see how this venture works out.
Even with the limited details we know, it’s clear Breeze will be different than other airlines, from its approach to hiring flight attendants, to its cost structure, to its fleet.
What do you make of these Breeze insights?
My neighbor is in this program. There is no contract (at will employment) and health insurance is provided and optional.
Obviously, a lot of people are not aware of what a flight attendant's role is (listen up Neeleman). Flight Attendants are hired because they are qualified to provide safety & service. They are not hired to be sex symbols and keep men sexually entertained through out the flight; therefore, I could care less how old you are as long as you can save my life in the event of an emergency.
There's a lot...
Obviously, a lot of people are not aware of what a flight attendant's role is (listen up Neeleman). Flight Attendants are hired because they are qualified to provide safety & service. They are not hired to be sex symbols and keep men sexually entertained through out the flight; therefore, I could care less how old you are as long as you can save my life in the event of an emergency.
There's a lot of old pilots - is Neeleman hiring them because of their looks, or because they know how to fly a plane?
It is obvious that ,"Your Highness" doesn't appreciate the one class of employees that can encourage repeat business - because flight attendants are the ONLY employees that have a constant interaction with customers. Which means, the flight attendant occupation is DIRECTLY responsible for marketing the company to the public. Their value is astronomical.
Since most flight attendants are women - it also shows how Neeleman views females. Look down, "Your Highness". Your slip is showing.
That’s exactly what I got from reading the article…..
Hello Travis and thank you for the advice.
It's funny, isn't it... the view of things changes upon where you're standing. I think the deal is too good to be true while others think it's chump change and will never work.
The concept does turn on to be "too good to be true" at least for me, just based on the insurance matter alone. It is a pity that in this country, health care...
Hello Travis and thank you for the advice.
It's funny, isn't it... the view of things changes upon where you're standing. I think the deal is too good to be true while others think it's chump change and will never work.
The concept does turn on to be "too good to be true" at least for me, just based on the insurance matter alone. It is a pity that in this country, health care should fall on the shoulders of an employer or the employee. How many people can't afford to start a new business or begin a new endeavour because they are tethered to their current employer solely because of the insurance.
Individuals can't afford premiums. And why frankly, should businesses be saddled with this expense? 35 developed countries around the world have better healthcare than the USA and many of them don't leave their citizens without a safety net.
Off topic, sorry. But thank you again for the advice.
Sorry @john S. my comment was for @Monty C. -
Monty, I interviewed at Breeze a few months back. I’m glad to see you’re excited to join the industry. It can be very exciting and rewarding, but…. the recruiters told me:
*No insurance provided. *Layovers will be rare (mechanical issues, weather), trip planning will be “turns” – out and back same day.
*The whole “Home Monthly” is based on operational needs and must...
Sorry @john S. my comment was for @Monty C. -
Monty, I interviewed at Breeze a few months back. I’m glad to see you’re excited to join the industry. It can be very exciting and rewarding, but…. the recruiters told me:
*No insurance provided. *Layovers will be rare (mechanical issues, weather), trip planning will be “turns” – out and back same day.
*The whole “Home Monthly” is based on operational needs and must be scheduled 3 weeks prior. So, that will be difficult.
I wish you luck in you career and travels. I explained more in my previous posts. For the right crewmember this could be an excellent opportunity. But make sure you ask the a million question, even the stupid ones BEFORE you sign the contract.
Safe Flying!
@John S-
Hey. I interviewed at Breeze a few months back. I'm glad to see you're excited to join the industry. It can be very exciting and rewarding, but.... the recruiters told me:
*No insurance provided. *Layovers will be rare (mechanical issues, weather), trip planning will be "turns" - out and back same day.
*The whole "Home Monthly" is based on operational needs and must be scheduled 3 weeks prior. So, that will...
@John S-
Hey. I interviewed at Breeze a few months back. I'm glad to see you're excited to join the industry. It can be very exciting and rewarding, but.... the recruiters told me:
*No insurance provided. *Layovers will be rare (mechanical issues, weather), trip planning will be "turns" - out and back same day.
*The whole "Home Monthly" is based on operational needs and must be scheduled 3 weeks prior. So, that will be difficult.
I wish you luck in you career and travels. I explained more in my previous posts. For the right crewmember this could be an excellent opportunity. But make sure you ask the a million question, even the stupid ones BEFORE you sign the contract.
Safe Flying!
As a college student, I love the idea! In fact, the concept seems brilliant and hope I make it through the process and get selected.
1) Free Housing!
2) Free Travel!
3) Solid work experience in my chosen industry!
4) $6,000 annually towards my tuition! I am over the moon thrilled!
5) I will meet many travelers and may be able to network my way into other opportunities when I...
As a college student, I love the idea! In fact, the concept seems brilliant and hope I make it through the process and get selected.
1) Free Housing!
2) Free Travel!
3) Solid work experience in my chosen industry!
4) $6,000 annually towards my tuition! I am over the moon thrilled!
5) I will meet many travelers and may be able to network my way into other opportunities when I graduate. Meanwhile my friends will be stuck in their entry-level cubicles. Schmucks!
6) When I have a lay-over in some capital of commerce, I may even be able to interview for my next great adventure for once I graduate! Procter and Gamble, I'm thinking of you!
Love! Love! Love it! Where do I sign up?
Now as you can tell, I am giddy with enthusiasm and by the prospects if I'm selected for the internship!
The downside for me, and they exist in almost all arrangements, is the unknown as to whether we'll have health insurance. I'll work my fingers to the bone as an intern but a stipend of $1,200 a month won't go far with a medical emergency.
Fingers crossed and ready to go!
America is Great! Whatta country!
1200/month in 2021??? My starting pay clear back in 1983 was1500/month!
Sounds like 4 years of indentured servitude! Someone has the verb and the noun meanings of intern confused. It will be interesting to see how it plays out for sure. This airline is banking on their 4 year contract holding up. A huge percentage of new flight attendants leave within the first year. Is there a penalty for leaving early? Every job would hire people at less than half pay and call them interns if...
Sounds like 4 years of indentured servitude! Someone has the verb and the noun meanings of intern confused. It will be interesting to see how it plays out for sure. This airline is banking on their 4 year contract holding up. A huge percentage of new flight attendants leave within the first year. Is there a penalty for leaving early? Every job would hire people at less than half pay and call them interns if they could get away with it. There are laws preventing this for a reason.
I think at a pay rate of $1,200 a month, most of their flight attendants will come from “A Handmaids Tale”! Wonder what they’ll pay their mechanics and pilots??? Does everyone just think about cost of a ticket, but not how safe the aircraft are?
@RobertB unless Breeze starts showing a pattern of denying jobs to older, experienced flight attendants who want to do the work and following Breeze's presumably legal employment practices, there is no discrimination. If "older experienced flight attendants" feel somehow entitled to higher pay or don't like the legal work conditions or don't like the fact that being a flight attendant inherently means time away from family, that is not Breeze's problem.
If adults want...
@RobertB unless Breeze starts showing a pattern of denying jobs to older, experienced flight attendants who want to do the work and following Breeze's presumably legal employment practices, there is no discrimination. If "older experienced flight attendants" feel somehow entitled to higher pay or don't like the legal work conditions or don't like the fact that being a flight attendant inherently means time away from family, that is not Breeze's problem.
If adults want to work the jobs Breeze offers and are satisfied with it then there is no cynical exploitation, even though legacy unions might wish that it were so. If the public and the FAA is satisfied with the drinks they get served and the safety practices that by law must be followed then perhaps there is no reason at all for them to vote with their feet.
Maybe we should let other adults be adults, and them have the freedom to figure out what works well for their own lives.
Even the ME3 flight attendants start on a salary of around $3,000 per month plus housing and that is tax-free. $1,200 a month is an embarrassment. And their policy looks discriminatory to me as it seems to (without directly saying it) exclude any older, experienced flight attendants and those who are married.
This is cynical exploitation at its worst and I hope that the public recognises this and vote with their feet.
@JetJ0ck
You ask "why not schedule surgery with a “doctor as an intern”?", but I actually challenge you to schedule surgery with a “doctor with only a GED”. Don't forget that for a person to be a doctor capable for surgery they need to have completed medical school, but for someone to be a flight attendant they only need a GED.
And yes, if a doctor is an intern at my hospital I would...
@JetJ0ck
You ask "why not schedule surgery with a “doctor as an intern”?", but I actually challenge you to schedule surgery with a “doctor with only a GED”. Don't forget that for a person to be a doctor capable for surgery they need to have completed medical school, but for someone to be a flight attendant they only need a GED.
And yes, if a doctor is an intern at my hospital I would not hesitate scheduling surgery (I'm sure he/she is cheaper) since I know he's had full training.
@Jason -- Sprit is not that profitable, certainly nowhere close to Delta. Profitability is how many dollars you make your investors, i.e. return on investment. Spirit may have higher "margins", i.e. the percentage of revenues it gets to keep, but because Spirit makes so little revenue on their high-cost investments they don't add up to much.
@Jetj0ck says,
1) “Why not schedule surgery with a "doctor as an intern.?"
Great idea. Chances if you have surgery, you already have. There's a good chance that well-spoken, polished, and slightly tired surgeon you call "doctor", who has "MD" on their snappy-looking business card, and who so patiently listens to all of your ailments and deep thoughts about dizziness and tinnitus is a resident physician, AKA an intern. They can't practice on their...
@Jetj0ck says,
1) “Why not schedule surgery with a "doctor as an intern.?"
Great idea. Chances if you have surgery, you already have. There's a good chance that well-spoken, polished, and slightly tired surgeon you call "doctor", who has "MD" on their snappy-looking business card, and who so patiently listens to all of your ailments and deep thoughts about dizziness and tinnitus is a resident physician, AKA an intern. They can't practice on their own. They can earn $40,000-$60,000 a year, cut you open, and often perform your entire surgery under the direct and indirect supervision of attending physicians, who are more experienced and make more like $350,000 to $700,000 a year. And even if you talked endlessly to that reassuring gray-haired physician in the lead-up to your surgery, you know, the guy or gal who wrote the textbook on your ailment and who appears a shoe-in to be the next chairman of the school of medicine at the cutting-edge research institution where you've opted to get the very best care (you deserve it!), what most likely happened after you got your paralytic and your anesthesia is some slightly tired, fresh-face resident came in to practice his/her craft on you. This is how young doctors learn their craft in America and all over the world. There is nothing wrong with it: young doctors tend to be closest to what's cutting edge and have read the latest medical studies and literature.
2. Your speculation about how Breeze flight attendant will or will not make ends meet is rank speculation. Maybe Breeze will also supply its people with high-end meals, as Microsoft and Google provides its extremely well-compensated developer workforce. Both the developers and the company very much like this arrangement.
3。 Your speculation about FA rest and workload is also rank speculation. We don't really know enough at this point. Maybe wait and see?
I am a 40 year flight attendant at a legacy carrier...and I llove my job. The industry does need an overall. I have suggested reestablishing a mandatory retirement age for flight crew and a renaming to inflight first responders. But....can't raise interest.
This is a very exciting idea indeed! Yes, I am hoping for the best for this start up! Aviation is amazing!! Can't wait to see more innovation!!
“Flight attendants as interns” is a novel idea on paper but…
1. Why not schedule surgery with a “doctor as an intern”?
2. Being paid $1200 a month automatically means that these FAs will have to be going to school as required AND probably working a second job to make ends meet. Therefor your flight attendant is going to be exhausted/probably not happy and definitely not rested enough to perform optimally in an emergency.
...“Flight attendants as interns” is a novel idea on paper but…
1. Why not schedule surgery with a “doctor as an intern”?
2. Being paid $1200 a month automatically means that these FAs will have to be going to school as required AND probably working a second job to make ends meet. Therefor your flight attendant is going to be exhausted/probably not happy and definitely not rested enough to perform optimally in an emergency.
I think the FAA needs to look into this. There are rules about pilots moonlighting in order to ensure they are properly rested for duty. It may be time to consider this for FAs too.
Interesting, @EMBCAPTN. I'm much more concerned about the pilot pay scale than whatever arrangement Breeze works out with its FAs. There are a finite quantity of qualified pilots and the barrier to entry for that work is significant. If the pay is off the mark, the marketplace will correct this soon enough: pilots have options, and they know it.
Nah man, cars suck. Thanks for the weird post about the fast food you like, though :)
And @Ben L. is still reminiscing the best cars in the world evar, made by 100% union labor in the 1980s. Those were sure great times, what happened? Or maybe the extension to San Francisco's Oakland Bay Bridge, built entirely in China, shipped across the ocean in pieces, and bolted together by 100% American union labor for a living wage. Glorious.
I'll have fries with that, thanks. And Coke Zero, make it a large. I sure appreciate it.
Here’s Breeze Airways’ pilot pay scale:
First officers will be paid $55 per hour in year one, and $94 per hour in year six
Captains will be paid $117 per hour in year one, and $143 per hour in year six
Pilots are only guaranteed pay for 55 hours per month of flying (this is really the worst part, since pilots at most airlines are guaranteed 75+ hours per month)
Here is...
Here’s Breeze Airways’ pilot pay scale:
First officers will be paid $55 per hour in year one, and $94 per hour in year six
Captains will be paid $117 per hour in year one, and $143 per hour in year six
Pilots are only guaranteed pay for 55 hours per month of flying (this is really the worst part, since pilots at most airlines are guaranteed 75+ hours per month)
Here is JetBlue Airways pilot pay scale for the same airplane. (E-190)
First Officer 1st year $89 and $130 in year six.
Captain 1st year $192 and $203 in year six.
Pilots are guaranteed pay of $75 per month
This arrogant capitalist needs to be forced to live in poverty too. Let him eat his own crap for breakfast lunch and dinner. I will be marching tomorrow on May Day for an egalitarian communist revolution with hundreds of myvworking class comrades in Brooklyn. Death to racist capitalism, Life and good health to the international working class.
A hundred years ago, Kendor would be talking about the joys of working one's way up from being a frontline Pinkerton goon to the guy commanding a whole squad of goons.
Nice. Employees pay for their school and housing, but Breeze gets the tax savings.
(the "free" school and housing comes out of their pay just as much as if they got full pay, and paid for the school/housing themselves)
I wonder what other benefits and tax breaks Breeze gets, in exchange for providing "jobs".
This was the skybus business plan. It’s not gonna work.
As a retired Flight Attendant after 34 years of service I find this both offensive and sad. I considered myself a professional and definitely grew with my profession.. All union issues aside I find it interesting that he has singled out the flight attendants specifically..
Nobody even knows what the work culture, training will be like at this startup, yet look at all of the certainty in these comments already. So much whining and squealing.
Even liberal-minded folks who support workers grow to hate the rhetoric surrounding unions and union actions. They relentlessly play the fear card, citing safety or at times implicitly threatening your safety. It gets so tiresome. So Breeze may hire twentysomethings and train them, so...
Nobody even knows what the work culture, training will be like at this startup, yet look at all of the certainty in these comments already. So much whining and squealing.
Even liberal-minded folks who support workers grow to hate the rhetoric surrounding unions and union actions. They relentlessly play the fear card, citing safety or at times implicitly threatening your safety. It gets so tiresome. So Breeze may hire twentysomethings and train them, so what? It's not like America's legacy airlines are immune to hiring very young, very inexperienced people. On the small regional hops, inexperience is almost the default. You think the fact they've bought a union card somehow empowers them with experience?
Most professionals are comfortable with the idea of a starter job, and aren't looking for a father figure in their employer to guide them gently into old age. When I met my wife, she wanted to be a physical therapist. Within a few years, she decided ENT surgery would be somewhat more interesting work and spent more than a decade training up at a resident wages that most union folk would scoff at. As an MD and introducing herself to patients as "Doctor", her salary started at about $30,000. These days she brings home a little bit more than that: she earned it. I am quite happy Doctor Kendor didn't get too comfortable in some cushy union-enabled physical therapy gig offering an artificial pay scale and relentlessly reinforcing an artificial sense of self-importance. Ability and respect is earned.
Well what about Maintenance. Can't believe. Maintenance is the number one important. If not the airplane no flight.
Let's see...an airline you interact with almost completely on an app staffed by young folks with no vested interest in the company or it's success....what could possibly go wrong? /s
Technology is great...until something goes wrong. Can you imagine just getting a text message your flight is canceled and you're rescheduled for 2 days later...and you can't call anyone to change it? Or the app crashing? No thank you!
I'm sure Breeze will find plenty...
Let's see...an airline you interact with almost completely on an app staffed by young folks with no vested interest in the company or it's success....what could possibly go wrong? /s
Technology is great...until something goes wrong. Can you imagine just getting a text message your flight is canceled and you're rescheduled for 2 days later...and you can't call anyone to change it? Or the app crashing? No thank you!
I'm sure Breeze will find plenty of young, naive college students who sign up for this, not realizing what they are getting themselves into. According to the hiring website, the maximum you can work is 60 hours a month and a maximum of 12 days. Guess which days you're going to be working? Every Friday Saturday, and Sunday of the month.
Clearly Breeze has already figured out that people who fall into their trap will regret their circumstances; that's why Breeze is also making them sign a 4-year contract. To work part-time only, with no benefits, as an "intern". And which also clearly states that there will be no contract renewal.
No per diem or overnight trips means you can forget about exploring any new cities (not that you could afford to do anything in another city anyway). Sounds like the flights will be mostly out and back the same day, to save $$$ on per diem/ hotel costs.
For a certain person, this could be an ideal job. Young, unattached, few opportunities, and committed to finishing school in 4 years. The corporate-provided housing actually sounds like an appealing thing for many college students. Not everyone is born into wealth and that could be one of the deciding factors for people to apply. I worked my way through college and I would have LOVED to have free housing provided.
However, earning minimum wages at a dead-end job, working every weekend, no benefits, no time/money/opportunity to explore new cities, and being forced to sign a 4-year contract at the outset are all red flags that employment as a flight attendant at Breeze should be avoided at all costs. The *interns* that get suckered into this are clearly being taken advantage of and exploited.
This is corporate serfdom masquerading as an "opportunity".
As a former 40 year flight attendant, I can assure you if there is an emergency on board, you will be in much better off and in much more capable hands with a 25-40 year flight attendant than a 20 year old airhead!
Having been a flight attendant I can tell you 15 days is not part time. $1200 per month is a crime. Getting paid $30-$40,000 isn’t enough to keep most from leaving after a year. I already feel bad for the disadvantaged kids that will end up getting wrangled into this to help pay for a couple semesters of college. I was one of them 20 years ago but was not treated close to as bad as this sounds. End stage capitalism here people.
My view is something of a combination of many of the other posts.
1. This job is not nor intended to be for every young person. There are many young people that lack the $$ or choose not to go into debt (student loan/s) for a traditional higher education.
2. Many may not have developed interactional skills with customers (passengers) and feel this job can help teach them that skill.
3.Enough may feel...
My view is something of a combination of many of the other posts.
1. This job is not nor intended to be for every young person. There are many young people that lack the $$ or choose not to go into debt (student loan/s) for a traditional higher education.
2. Many may not have developed interactional skills with customers (passengers) and feel this job can help teach them that skill.
3.Enough may feel that this is just fine for 1-2 years. Because it is an opportunity to teach them the skills to land a career or job that they would not have otherwise had a chance for.
4. Young people / College students have an ability to enjoy activities that are very cheap / free. I know these FA's will not be scheduled for overnight trips. But lets say you have a couple of days off. You and a friend use your travel pass and visit a city. Do public transportation and see the sites that are free. Split a very inexpensive room with one or two others and have a fun time. Some of these kids may never have ever been able to do that.
In the end I wish people would stop looking at every opportunity through their own eyes and realize that not every job has to be a union job or a job with all the perks of a career. Not for everyone - dah. But it may be a great opportunity for some as I said for 1-2 years for a young person. Many may look back later in life with a better career and better economics fondly with the experience they had along with friendships made.
Interesting model.
Wondering about pilot recruitment/requirements.
As for the FA's..they will definitely be lined up around the block for a job like this with those benies. Get real.
Age of planes? New or retreads?
The a la carte formula is very popular whether you personally like it or not.
He couldn't pay me $1200 to fly them for a month.
Very interesting article, first off there's a lot of people who only want to work part-time and find it exciting to go to different cities. I would think having your own place paid for as an apartment or even sharing would save you $6000 a month at least. On the other hand I have a feeling this is going to be an age discrimination lawsuit happening as soon as they figure out no one over the age of 30 is being hired for a flight attendant.
A 25 year veteran Flight Attendant is exactly who you want on a Flight if there's any type of emergency. Cringing at the pay rate...less than $100 per day and the hours can be brutal. Idea sounds interesting but that pay scale and hiring model is trash.
This business model shows that there is still tremendous opportunity to drive down wring out costs in flying.
Fares are still way to high in the industry.
Need to use the Robinhood model where PAX fly free or get paid to fly, in exchange for all of their data / information which can be sold for revenue generation.
Dolts....read the whole article. Yes, I'm probably talking about you dummy.
Some interns are unpaid. This wage is above the federal minimum wage, includes housing and a $6k tuition credit. For a college student, this beats the shit out of working at the mall. I would have jumped at this deal in college.
And you're worried about the quality of housing? Have you gone to college? They pack you in like lemmings in the dorms...
Dolts....read the whole article. Yes, I'm probably talking about you dummy.
Some interns are unpaid. This wage is above the federal minimum wage, includes housing and a $6k tuition credit. For a college student, this beats the shit out of working at the mall. I would have jumped at this deal in college.
And you're worried about the quality of housing? Have you gone to college? They pack you in like lemmings in the dorms and during spring break we slept 12 to a hotel room.
Spirit airlines is one of the most profitable airlines in the world proving that many people care more about price than most other things on flights. And I'm not convinced a bright college student can't get the job done.
And Moron #27 it's an INTERNSHIP....not a career. People can't really be this stupid.
@Wendy B Gates - Breeze didn't specifically tell me I'm too old, they said I was overqualified. When I spoke to Utah Valley Univ recruiters they hinted heavily the program was designed for the under 25 crowd. I'm 41.
@Samuel - Housing is a big plus and at Breeze it is included. Corporate apartments with two bedrooms. No guests.
I wish more airlines provided housing options. Almost every airline has it in the...
@Wendy B Gates - Breeze didn't specifically tell me I'm too old, they said I was overqualified. When I spoke to Utah Valley Univ recruiters they hinted heavily the program was designed for the under 25 crowd. I'm 41.
@Samuel - Housing is a big plus and at Breeze it is included. Corporate apartments with two bedrooms. No guests.
I wish more airlines provided housing options. Almost every airline has it in the agreement that upon graduation from FA training you have to get yourself to whatever base they need crew at. (Example: last day of training in Chicago they say you're assigned to Newark. You have 7 days to get yourself there, find a place, sign a lease, move in, get airport badges and be ready to fly on day 8.). I liked the idea of them providing housing so I didn't have to scramble to find a crash pad or sign a lease somewhere. Commuting from another city to work is almost impossible when on reserve.
Housing is a huge hurdle for new flight attendants. I knew one guy that slept in the crew lounge and wandered DEN between trips.
When I flew with Virgin America I was based at SFO, but lived in ORD. I commuted weekly on Southwest out of MDW got an apartment with 5 other classmates. Eight months later our crashpad lease expired. For the rest of my career at VX I commuted into SFO the night before a trip. Spent $50 at the Vagabond motel next to the airport. Flew my 4day trip and took a Delta flight departing at 12:25am to MSP and connected to MDW. I could not afford to live in SFO and couldn't find another crashpad with openings unless I hot racked.
I know that was long... Sorry.
@samuel. As in, Gompers? Very clever. Thanks for being transparent that these comments are nearly all from a union organizing push before the airline even launches. May be this a good business model. may be it is totally moronic. You and your self-interested cronies don't get to decide what type of jobs people choose to take. If the labor model is as stupid and exploitative as you seem to believe it is, it will fail....
@samuel. As in, Gompers? Very clever. Thanks for being transparent that these comments are nearly all from a union organizing push before the airline even launches. May be this a good business model. may be it is totally moronic. You and your self-interested cronies don't get to decide what type of jobs people choose to take. If the labor model is as stupid and exploitative as you seem to believe it is, it will fail. Kinda like most private sector unions. Just be transparent. You get paid to sign up more people to pay union dues. Kinda like this site makes money signing people up for credit cards. they are transparent. You should be too.
Are they also going to have INTERN PILOTS to fuel this business plan? NB: there's a pilot shortage
May I ask the age range that they are seeking @TravisFromORD?
No person interactions. Not my kind of thing. I can't always trust a computer system to give me the perks or pay attention to the details I care about. The systems are good at remembering my preferences though.
I’d be interested in knowing more about the contents and cost of flight attendant training programs. This combination of low salary and high demands cannot be good for retention. Maybe housing benefit becomes a retention factor, but beyond that the high turnover seems like it would risk leveling out the reduced labor costs.
Wow, quite a few idiot comments:
1) Against unions: not every employee is good at negotiating. Some can force their way, others will accept any offer out of fear to lose their job. A union can negotiate for the whole group, unity makes force.
2) housing: I am curious what housing? Barracks or proper housing and will the company take it out of their paycheque? Also: are families welcome? Or what if you...
Wow, quite a few idiot comments:
1) Against unions: not every employee is good at negotiating. Some can force their way, others will accept any offer out of fear to lose their job. A union can negotiate for the whole group, unity makes force.
2) housing: I am curious what housing? Barracks or proper housing and will the company take it out of their paycheque? Also: are families welcome? Or what if you decide to get children?
3) People as interns/college kids: I would like to have a job for life. Certainly in today's world that is a luxury. but if your salary stays low, you cannot build a family. See point 2
I hope it does not come off the ground and if it does, it goes bankrupt after a week. This company is bad for the US economy and society.
Are all the posts from FAs at other airlines? How many people truly seek out higher prices for labor solidarity? Be honest. It’s schedule, price, loyalty program. People may weigh each differently but those are the top three for nearly all travelers. If it’s actually cheaper and leg room isn’t a total disaster, their planes will be full. And many of the commenters on here will fill seats when UA is 5x the price on...
Are all the posts from FAs at other airlines? How many people truly seek out higher prices for labor solidarity? Be honest. It’s schedule, price, loyalty program. People may weigh each differently but those are the top three for nearly all travelers. If it’s actually cheaper and leg room isn’t a total disaster, their planes will be full. And many of the commenters on here will fill seats when UA is 5x the price on the same route regardless of what they think of labor rights or “real” college education. Even brands that truly tried to build a better experience (jetblue, alaska, virgin (rip)) eventually competed mostly on price. It’s all about price. And it’s our fault. We won’t pay for nice things.
Just wondering if there will be many legal challenges here? Does this really qualify as an "internship"? Is this essentially age discrimination? Then there are the wages and hours questions. I am sure they expect this, but will like to see what happens.
Forgot to add to my previous post that it is two person corporate housing with private bedrooms (think Residence Inn by Marriott, like SkyWest training). And was told that 90% would be "turns", out and back same day - no layovers. Classes are 100% online. Oh, and first crew base is MYR. I think they are going Myrtle Beach Direct Air style. Expect PGD, IAG, SFB, ORH, RFD, PIT and to change seasonally.
Why @sruart does the country really need more low wage perminent temporary jobs? No we need less and need more solid middle class jobs
Partying and hanging out with friends is what college students are supposed to be doing. Not exclusively, but the idea of a University education is as much participating in a community of students as it is sitting in classrooms.
The sharpest students looking for a college education do not choose online learning only from a second-tier state school. The most qualified and competent FA candidates will not be happy with a job that is...
Partying and hanging out with friends is what college students are supposed to be doing. Not exclusively, but the idea of a University education is as much participating in a community of students as it is sitting in classrooms.
The sharpest students looking for a college education do not choose online learning only from a second-tier state school. The most qualified and competent FA candidates will not be happy with a job that is not only poorly paid, but offers next-to-zero chances of becoming a career with that employer, while being viewed negatively by the career employers in the field. Finally, an "internship" employment model has limited potential for growth. Even if it flies at first, at some point of growth, you won't be able to justify career training.
An airline that keeps harassing me with upsell offers on my purchase? "Filet mignon sandwich?" How innovative.
It's exactly what I have been saying for years. Merge the Starbucks model into an airline. Starbucks employees don't plan on a career there, but they love the culture and it offers them a launching pad. And there are always plenty more ready to come into the pipeline. I'm sorry, a career flight attendant is absurd. A great position to have in your 20's while you work towards advancing your education or other opportunities.
I interviewed with them for cabin crew... You must be enrolled at Utah Valley University full-time and maintain 3.0 GPA. Never found out what would happen if you fall below 3.0. $1,200/mo if you have 15 days off and $1,400/mo if only 10. No Per Diem. Housing and travel to/from work provided. Airfare provided to go home monthly. You don't get any insurances. AFTER 4 YEARS YOUR CONTRACT IS OVER AND CANNOT BE RENEWED. I...
I interviewed with them for cabin crew... You must be enrolled at Utah Valley University full-time and maintain 3.0 GPA. Never found out what would happen if you fall below 3.0. $1,200/mo if you have 15 days off and $1,400/mo if only 10. No Per Diem. Housing and travel to/from work provided. Airfare provided to go home monthly. You don't get any insurances. AFTER 4 YEARS YOUR CONTRACT IS OVER AND CANNOT BE RENEWED. I make it to one-on-one video interview and was told I was too old to join program.
Not a bad gig for a college student. Free housing with huge tuition reimbursement. Minimum wage in Utah is $7.25/hr and cost of living there is pretty low. I worked as a host at a restaurant for minimum wage in college and didn’t make close to $1200/mo and still had full tuition and room/board to pay. I would have loved an opportunity like this. There will be plenty of applicants!
Kendor gonna be thrilled when Breeze slashes wages by another third in exchange for company scrip redeemable for filet mignon sandwiches. "The price of food is so high, they should be grateful!"
This would be less cringey if there would be incentives for the flight attendants to move into positions such as pilots or air traffic control.
Wont fly them with this info. Sounds very ME3. And I agree with the fellow poster RE: all very young kids, limited work experience not what I’d want in an emergency. Not to mention the work ethic or lack of it.
I can just imagine the sick calls on the weekends.
Sounds ripe for an age discrimination lawsuit at some point too.
The number of terrible domestic airlines keeps increasing. Can the U.S. not have just one decent, heck even mediocre, airline?
Yep....when there is an emergency on board and seconds or mistakes can mean the difference between life and death, what I want is a bunch of 20 something overgrown teenagers with absolutely no investment in their jobs in charge! I'm sure safety will be first class on Breeze.
@Ben L. exhibiting developmental delay for snark: that's concerning. Keep working at it, maybe you'll can find an unpaid internship on Arsenio.
I suppose you're also going to apply the company town line to the internships that MIcrosoft, Google, and many other corporations have going for aspiring developers. Many of those interns go on to be millionaires, build businesses, and manage to be +5 insightful and funny.
An airline, perfect for SLC.
A place that likes control over everyone and everything, Mormone like.
Scary and for sure a company that will NEVER see me on any of there planes!
A cult, . . . more like the lived way of another religious group who is willing to do ANYTHING to keep control in place, . . . for there liking only.
S C A R Y
This is Slave wages but should we be surprised this is coming from the same CEO that says” Masks are for Morons” so all the hard working front line workers that have lost their lives that were wearing masks trying to save folks lives.His mouth has spoken and I have listened on how I will spend my airline travel dollars and it won’t be on Breeze.
Kendor coming out strongly in favor of Gilded Age company towns, I see
I think these "internships" are not meant for people looking at a career as a flight attendant, but rather college age kids looking for a unique experience. The $1200 a month is not really a salary, but rather a stipend for a college-like experience while interning as FA part time. To that end, it's not that much different than regular college life (many students work part time), but you won't burden yourself with huge college...
I think these "internships" are not meant for people looking at a career as a flight attendant, but rather college age kids looking for a unique experience. The $1200 a month is not really a salary, but rather a stipend for a college-like experience while interning as FA part time. To that end, it's not that much different than regular college life (many students work part time), but you won't burden yourself with huge college debt because those kids won't have to worry about tuition and housing. To be honest, many college kids waste 4 years of tuition partying and enjoying life without learning anything substantial. At least here they will learn something.
I don't know if they will succeed, but credit them for thinking outside the box.
@rich $15 an hour plus benefits for most fast food jobs are just for the interim. We are seeing a rapid deployment of apps and self-service kiosks to replace human workforce that don't bring $15 an hour value. Just the other day, the neighborhood Japanese restaurant is using robots to deliver food. Expect this trend to accelerate in the next 3-5 years.
The Dept. of Labor requires that to classify a worker as an intern, the intern has to be the primary beneficiary of the position, not the company. To help clarify that, the DoL requires that the intern cannot displace any worker, receive instruction equivalent to or complementary to enrolled coursework.
If a for-profit-company hires someone and calls an "intern," that person is still an employee and subject to all of the requirements of the...
The Dept. of Labor requires that to classify a worker as an intern, the intern has to be the primary beneficiary of the position, not the company. To help clarify that, the DoL requires that the intern cannot displace any worker, receive instruction equivalent to or complementary to enrolled coursework.
If a for-profit-company hires someone and calls an "intern," that person is still an employee and subject to all of the requirements of the FLSA,
What we have here is an attempt to hornswoggle naive, inexperienced workers by adding a meaningless term to an employment contract.
Sounds short term operation.
Yes on the FA model!
“FAs are there for your safety:” The younger the FA, the stronger they are. Think lifeguards. Do you see 50 yo or 70 yo lifeguards on the beach?
Customer service: Generally speaking, younger hires are friendlier and perkier.
Beauty: Not in the job description, but undoubtedly a plus from a marketing perspective. Not how you’d describe most 70-year-olds.
Who here wants to entrust their lives to "fresh" ill-paid FAs?
Should be a wage and hour attorney's dream; they'll be subject to every state's wage/hour laws wherever they fly and be subject to both private lawsuits as well as administrative cases from the wage/hour agency in those respective states.
@rich Does your fast food place include housing as part of compensation? If not the comparison is poor. Housing is expensive.
In youth I worked fast food full-time for many years. Would much rather have spent my time working for peanuts high in the sky, and jetting to interesting places.
You can work at a lot of fast food places and now get $15 an hour plus benefits. So you can make $1200 in a month only working 80 hrs a month. That sounds part time and probably better since you are getting paid for all of your time.
There isn't enough information to know whether this is a good deal or a bad deal for the "part timers" potentially taking this work. It's silly to ape outrage when we don't know a lot of the details of the actual work and schedule. Maybe it really is a part-time gig and would be a good fit for a great many people. Maybe there are ancillary benefits/travel privileges' that are enormously valuable to some people....
There isn't enough information to know whether this is a good deal or a bad deal for the "part timers" potentially taking this work. It's silly to ape outrage when we don't know a lot of the details of the actual work and schedule. Maybe it really is a part-time gig and would be a good fit for a great many people. Maybe there are ancillary benefits/travel privileges' that are enormously valuable to some people. Nobody knows yet.
A job that solves the problem of housing takes an enormous number of costs away from young people, and the "$1200 salary" needs to be evaluated in that context.
Years ago right out of college I worked as a contractor on-site at one of the biggest technology companies in the world. All around me were developers making millions of dollars of year in salary and stock options, and there was little old me, paid hourly making about $28,000 a year in an expensive city. Poor, poor me. I dwelled on my sad fate at length. And if I had a time machine I would go back and slap, poor, poor me silly and tell me to redirect my attention to the unlimited opportunities that were sitting right in front of me every day I drove across the lake and clocked into work. I would instruct my old self to work yet harder for my lousy salary. The experience and skillset I got at that first job enabled me to quickly move into work paying many multiples of that first internship-like position.
It's not so nice to say, but the truth is that young untrained employees aren't always worth that much. They cost a lot to train up and cost a lot to manage. They make expensive mistakes. As a society we have started to forget the notion of a first job leading to better skills and better salary.
People forget that people have different life circumstances than their own. There are young people for whom a collegial work environment and highly social university-style housing would be quite appealing while they build skills. These skills are essential for them to be able to take the next step in their careers and lives. There are highly educated older people sitting around and posting on onemileatatime.com somewhat bored while a high-earning spouse pulls down a large salary. People in that position have the option of not working and watching their skills and socialization go fallow, or working and having the first and last dollar of their income taxed at 70% and more under federal and state taxation. Salary to both of these groups of people is somewhat incidental. The job may fit more workers than you think.
Why not try interns for piolots?
1200 a month is laughable and embarrassingly low
Many young girls and guys want to be a flight attendant from 20-65 or older. So a lifelong career. So Breeze might get a few "interns" but the vast majority of people wanting the job want to stay there their whole working lives.
The pay is horrifically low, though. I don't know how Breeze expects to hire the best people who invest in the job at those wages. Are they being put up in...
Many young girls and guys want to be a flight attendant from 20-65 or older. So a lifelong career. So Breeze might get a few "interns" but the vast majority of people wanting the job want to stay there their whole working lives.
The pay is horrifically low, though. I don't know how Breeze expects to hire the best people who invest in the job at those wages. Are they being put up in an extended stay type compound? What does the department of labor think about this? So they only want young, pretty, college girls and completely straight acting College guys?
You can't have a million dollar dream with minimum wage work ethics.
Good luck, Febreeze!
CORRECTION for the above; should be as follows:
“... - like airlines based in countries that still allow for hiring and firing based on age.”
Apologies for the error! It was not seen until uploaded/posted :(
Apart from seeking to keep labor cost for the flight attendants lower than at airlines where seniority translates into wage escalation over time, not to mention other costs such as health insurance, which also becomes more expensive as most of us advance in age, or perhaps even pension costs, since the college “interns” are envisioned as moving on to other occupations after they age out - er graduate - another “benefit” of this “innovative labor...
Apart from seeking to keep labor cost for the flight attendants lower than at airlines where seniority translates into wage escalation over time, not to mention other costs such as health insurance, which also becomes more expensive as most of us advance in age, or perhaps even pension costs, since the college “interns” are envisioned as moving on to other occupations after they age out - er graduate - another “benefit” of this “innovative labor policy” for flight attendants just so happens to be maintaining a “youthful” labor force as seniors depart from - er “graduate” - their “internships” and are replaced by “freshmen” (and women; the term “fresh” was intentionally omitted as that does not exactly present well given the context...).
It will be interesting to see how this “twist” in offering a perpetual/consistently “youthful” corps of flight attendants at Breeze versus those with (decades of) seniority at other airlines plays out, that’s for sure.
But, let’s be clear: unless there’s a fairly substantial number of mid-career/midlife/middle aged people among the flight attendants, apart from seeking to keep labor (and other) costs down, it’s hard to miss the “happy coincidence” of also having an “angle”/“approach” that just so happens to allow for “forever young” flight attendants - like airlines based in countries that still allow for to hiring and firing based on age.
Just sayin’ ;)
Enjoy the Race To The Bottom, along with the clientele it will surely attract (think Spirit but even more extreme).
I'll pass on this one.
@Robert. Per the website, FAs can work a maximum of 60 hours per month. And a minimum of 40. So, before any taxes at all, they would be looking at $20-30/hr. Sounds pretty abysmal. Even if/though they get corporate housing (which could also be really dismal)... they've still got to pay for food. To eat while traveling. And, it's not clear if they get health insurance as part-time employees. At least, I can't find that information.
Feel sorry for the FAs but this guy could be either a genius or just throwing at the wall to see what sticks. But I guess everyone agrees that the duties of FAs are just going down day by day. There is not a lot to do these days in an aircraft cabin. The next step from airlines would probably challenge the FAA rule of 1 FA per 50 pax
Does the fact that all FA positions are, looking at the website, classified as "part-time" allow them to avoid paying for health insurance?
Wow, what a depressing indicator of the state of our society with an emptied out middle class that flight attendants are being hired at poverty wages and worthless online "tuition credits."
Bodes ill for the long term stability of our society...
Does the hourly rate even amount to minimum wage?
What they do at launch and what they do 2 years later can be entirely different.
Don't knock it - they may be seeing how they can yield sufficient FA's before they go a different route entirely. You think this college student focused recruit is the only thing they've planned for beyond the short term?
Good luck hiring any Flight Attendants
How awful that Neeleman is forcing people to work under these conditions with a gun to their head! Oh wait. Its their choice. Sad that people in society know what's best for everybody else and don't want people making their own decisions.
It sounds to me like I am reading a history book about people who had to work in company housing, buying at the company store - “another day older and deeper in debt.” How far can this avalanche go where the top 1% get ever greater portions of the wealth, while the rest, well we don’t think about them. This isn’t a job, it’s servitude by hopeless people who have been abandoned by their government and economic system. Grumpy old man can be Ebenezer Scrooge.
Yeah….let us be honest….A 25 year veteran flight attendant is not someone most of us want on a flight.
These comments are something else. Interesting. I think it will succeed as long as they can attract enough flight attendants on an ongoing basis. That rate of pay is so low and that availability schedule requires so much flexibility that I have to imagine he isn't targeting primarily college students, who have class schedules to contend with, but high school graduates and GED holders up through their early 20s. He must anticipate a lot of...
These comments are something else. Interesting. I think it will succeed as long as they can attract enough flight attendants on an ongoing basis. That rate of pay is so low and that availability schedule requires so much flexibility that I have to imagine he isn't targeting primarily college students, who have class schedules to contend with, but high school graduates and GED holders up through their early 20s. He must anticipate a lot of employee churn and be okay with that risk, deeming it worth the extra-low cost structure and less likely to result in speedy unionization, if it leads to it at all. He is probably right in both those factors. I don't see a huge ad component to revenue, which isn't how he ran JetBlue when he started it in the lowest point of the dotcom bust era. I think they are going to offer a lot of things people actually might want to pay for, deliver them speedily and in a high quality way, and make it attractive to buy multiple products. Filet mignon is perhaps being used intentionally as an example of something you can't buy onboard even a full service airline but which many people would pay for. I expect a complete unbundling a la Spirit but with a much wider, more attractive range of upgrade interests for passengers. Overall, it sounds like he spent his time in Brazil calculating every aspect of his U.S. comeback. I am not necessarily rooting for him, since it depends on how happy employees are, but I think he and his outline of the new airline model have potential for spectacular success, regardless.
It's extremely spot on that the second comment on this article was written by a guy whose photo is a selfie in his car while wearing sunglasses
Impressive to see how discussion of new airline business immediately decedents into anti-religious bigotry. Guess if you cannot beat them, whisper sweet anti-mormon cult. The airline should do fine, at least up to a certain scale. Most people care about price and reasonably courtesy interactions. They are offering an employment model that will appeal to some people and no other airline can/will match it so the cost differences should be sustainable. Not sure if labor...
Impressive to see how discussion of new airline business immediately decedents into anti-religious bigotry. Guess if you cannot beat them, whisper sweet anti-mormon cult. The airline should do fine, at least up to a certain scale. Most people care about price and reasonably courtesy interactions. They are offering an employment model that will appeal to some people and no other airline can/will match it so the cost differences should be sustainable. Not sure if labor pool for whom the model fits is really large enough to support high turnover baked into the model or can support scale to provide regular flight frequency but we'll see. I do not believe for a minute service will be worse than economy on AA or UA. Spirit flight attendants are generally better than AA and UA. Spirit passengers, not so much.
I'm willing to bet that they will start service to Tampa. That would make for some interesting competition to Southwest. They both seem to have similar business models, but SW has really gotten expensive in some markets these past few years. I think Breeze will likely be cheaper while SW offers 2 free checked bags.
Let's ask Don Burr how his cult airline worked out? PEOPLExpress anyone?
I wonder if their First Class will have free food and drinks (like JetBlue) or if they're taking the Spirit Big Front Seat approach.
I cringe at labeling jobs without limitless potential for professional growth as "dead-end". An economy and society needs its worker bees as much as (more than?) its entrepreneurs and change-makers. Criticizing workers for lack of professional ambition is part of our toxic "professional achievement & success, income as identity" culture, especially where there are so many ways to live fulfilling lives that are not defined by constant growth of income.
Just wish they'd announce routes.
"fun little add-ons" er surely time-consuming adverts interrupting one's day asking one to pay for something high quality airlines provide as part of their price.
A slimy cult. "ding ding ding"
Unions. Oh the horror of being open about the terms of the jobs and the compensation and then allowing potential flight attendants to decide if they want to accept the arrangement. Here’s come the nanny union effectively telling them they aren’t capable of making that decision. Of course we know what Nelson is really up: unions can’t stand having to compete and this model could threaten her power and the power of her union.
It sort of sounds like a cult.